Author Topic: Red Cross Symbol Copyrighted? (Read 20494 times)

etienjones · « **on:** July 21, 2011, 04:24 »

Just got a very perplexing image rejection:

Your image has been rejected
Reason: Red Cross requested us to delete all images with "red cross" signs

From my Google research:

"The red cross on a background of white is an international symbol of humanity and the use of this emblem is spelled out in international treaty and restricted by U.S. law. In accordance with International and federal law, the use of the name and emblem of the Red Cross in the United States is limited except for certain pre-1905 users - to the medical departments and to the American Red Cross"

As you can see from the attached image, the “red crosses” were not on a white background so should not have been rejected . . . . . . . unless all red crosses are copyrighted, which is absurd. Or am I wrong . . . . . . . .

rubyroo · « **Reply #1 on:** July 21, 2011, 04:28 »

I would appeal that. As you say, it's clearly not on a white background.

RT · « **Reply #2 on:** July 21, 2011, 04:50 »

IMO they were right to reject it. Just change the red to green if the image means that much to you.

rubyroo · « **Reply #3 on:** July 21, 2011, 05:11 »

Does that mean that a picture like this would not be acceptable?

http://www.knowledgedoctor.com/pages/diagnosis.htm

nor this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_George%27s_Cross

etienjones · « **Reply #4 on:** July 21, 2011, 05:23 »

That's my point, there is a lot of historical imagery that contains a red cross (with and without a white background) . . . . . for example . . . religious (crusades) . . . . . although in my image there was a conceptual use of the symbol.

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #5 on:** July 21, 2011, 05:35 »

The ICRC's efforts to control their symbol are entirely reasonable, given that the red cross is seen as a guarantee of the highest standards of medical/humanitarian materials and work.
It's a pretty dull, LCV sort of row of chairs. Why worry about it?
And what use can a red cross be put to which is not related to trying to gain credibility from the reputation of the ICRC?

etienjones · « **Reply #6 on:** July 21, 2011, 05:48 »

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on July 21, 2011, 05:35

The ICRC's efforts to control their symbol are entirely reasonable, given that the red cross is seen as a guarantee of the highest standards of medical/humanitarian materials and work.
It's a pretty dull, LCV sort of row of chairs. Why worry about it?
And what use can a red cross be put to which is not related to trying to gain credibility from the reputation of the ICRC?

I realize that the image is not that successful but was just curious about the reason for the rejection.

ShadySue · « **Reply #7 on:** July 21, 2011, 05:50 »

Quote from: rubyroo on July 21, 2011, 05:11

Does that mean that a picture like this would not be acceptable?

http://www.knowledgedoctor.com/pages/diagnosis.htm

nor this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_George%27s_Cross

That use on a first aid kit would not be alloweed.
The St George's Cross is allowed, as it is a different shape.
However, I notice this on Wikipedia: "There is an unofficial agreement within the Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement that the shape of the cross should be a cross composed of five squares. However, regardless of the shape, any Red Cross on white background should be valid and must be recognized as a protection symbol in conflict. "
That persumably is incorrect, as the St George's Cross and its use on the English flag considerably predates the Red Cross.

ShadySue · « **Reply #8 on:** July 21, 2011, 05:50 »

Quote from: etienjones on July 21, 2011, 05:48

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on July 21, 2011, 05:35
The ICRC's efforts to control their symbol are entirely reasonable, given that the red cross is seen as a guarantee of the highest standards of medical/humanitarian materials and work.
It's a pretty dull, LCV sort of row of chairs. Why worry about it?
And what use can a red cross be put to which is not related to trying to gain credibility from the reputation of the ICRC?

I realize that the image is not that successful but was just curious about the reason for the rejection.

I'm sure they'll always err on the side of caution.

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #9 on:** July 21, 2011, 05:54 »

The red cross symbol is an inversion of the Swiss flag, I believe.

ShadySue · « **Reply #10 on:** July 21, 2011, 06:10 »

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on July 21, 2011, 05:54

The red cross symbol is an inversion of the Swiss flag, I believe.

That's what I was led to believe (since primary school days, and it was also in a textbook I used when teaching), but that wikipedia article suggests that wasn't so. I don't have time to check it out right now, though.

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #11 on:** July 21, 2011, 08:31 »

The Swiss flag connection seems to be uncertain. However, according to Wikipedia the answer to the question of copyright is that the symbol is protected by treaty under the Geneva Conventions:

"In order to ensure universal respect for the emblems, the Geneva Conventions obliged their signatories to forbid any other use of the names and emblems in wartime and peacetime.

Nevertheless, the misuse of the emblem is widespread and it is often used as a general symbol to indicate first aid, medical supplies and civilian medical services especially walk-in clinics. Misuses appear in movies (A notable example is The Living Daylights,[10][11] wherein narcotics were disguised as Red Cross care packages, as a plot device), on television, and in computer software and games. Service companies, such as those for car repair or lawn maintenance, tout themselves as service "doctors" and incorporate medical symbols to promote themselves.

In 2006, the Canadian Red Cross issued a press release asking video game makers to stop using the red cross in their games; it is an especially common sight to see first aid kits and other items which restore the player character's health marked with a red cross."

luceluceluce · « **Reply #12 on:** July 21, 2011, 11:15 »

I think it's to prevent people from shooting at things with a red cross on it. As the thing with a red cross on it is generally a humanitarian worker, they're mightily sensible in banning everyone from making commercial artwork out of it.

The same rules apply for the red crescent I guess...

ShadySue · « **Reply #13 on:** July 21, 2011, 12:01 »

Quote from: luceluceluce on July 21, 2011, 11:15

The same rules apply for the red crescent I guess...

Yes, and the Red Crystal.

Paulo M. F. Pires · « **Reply #14 on:** July 21, 2011, 12:32 »

My 2 cents:

I've take a photo of a portuguese red cross ambulance, and send it to all agencys ( high,middle and lower's ):

- Some refuse because red cross ( for them I sent new version without red cross )
- One agency refuse because mercedes symbol on wheels ( LOL it is same agency that refuse one photo because a red line on an excavator ), but they don't mentioned nothing about red cross
- Some accepted the phot "as is".

So, dependes a bit of each agency.

For my "safety", and having a second version without "logos", I replace it.

luceluceluce · « **Reply #15 on:** July 21, 2011, 12:41 »

Quote from: ShadySue on July 21, 2011, 12:01

Quote from: luceluceluce on July 21, 2011, 11:15
The same rules apply for the red crescent I guess...
Yes, and the Red Crystal.

first i thought you were making a world of warcraft joke : D and then I imagined giant reiki sessions in refugee camps... wikipedia can be such a cure for being a dumbasss. A diamond shape doesn't have the medical ring about it imo

madelaide · « **Reply #16 on:** July 21, 2011, 16:19 »

So first aid kits can not use the red cross?

I think it is a silly claim in the end, the image in question doesn't remind us of THE Red Cross, it only connects us to some sort of medical emergency staff.

ShadySue · « **Reply #17 on:** July 21, 2011, 16:50 »

Quote from: madelaide on July 21, 2011, 16:19

So first aid kits can not use the red cross?

I think it is a silly claim in the end, the image in question doesn't remind us of THE Red Cross, it only connects us to some sort of medical emergency staff.

I haven't seen a first aid kit with a red cross for years. It's usually white on green, or white on red, but I just checked Google Images and red crosses seem still to be used.
http://www.google.com/search?q=first+aid+kit&biw=1280&bih=864&tbm=isch&hl=en#q=first+aid+kit&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=lnt&tbs=itp:photo&sa=X&ei=pJ4oTqjtEIa88gOH2JitAw&ved=0CCMQpwUoAg&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=dad7f26ad6ace61&biw=1280&bih=864

rubyroo · « **Reply #18 on:** July 22, 2011, 06:45 »

Thanks for all your info on this Sue.

It does explain why, at some point, most of the first aid boxes on the market became white crosses on green (when they'd traditionally been red crosses on white).

From your last link, it looks as though the Red Cross still have some message-spreading to do.

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Author Topic: Red Cross Symbol Copyrighted? (Read 20494 times)

etienjones

rubyroo

RT

rubyroo

etienjones

BaldricksTrousers

etienjones

ShadySue

ShadySue

BaldricksTrousers

ShadySue

BaldricksTrousers

luceluceluce

ShadySue

Paulo M. F. Pires

luceluceluce

madelaide

ShadySue

rubyroo

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