MicrostockGroup
Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Stock Discussion => Topic started by: Milinz on March 20, 2011, 13:07
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Where do you get the biggest return per download on average over the last year?
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This question was also asked in the 2010 survey
http://blog.microstockgroup.com/2010-microstock-industry-survey-first-look/ (http://blog.microstockgroup.com/2010-microstock-industry-survey-first-look/)
iStock and Shutterstock seemed to take the cake, Fotolia was not that far behind.
Sorry that was RPI, not RPD
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I find it shocking that Istock and SS would have the largest RPD. I know they are the two sites that make the most income for people, overall, but the RPD at both is a great deal lower for me than at DT.
Maybe I am misunderstanding the question?
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Measuring RPD is pointless unless you are also taking volume into account. Alamy might have an excellent RPD with one sale per month but it won't do much for overall earnings.
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I find it shocking that Istock and Shutterstock would have the largest RPD. I know they are the two sites that make the most income for people, overall, but the RPD at both is a great deal lower for me than at Dreamstime.
Maybe I am misunderstanding the question?
I think the question was return per download which isn't total income, just best commission per sale on average. Now that I see some of the results, maybe the question should have included, if Other please post a message. For myself I get 50c and $1 downloads at BS, but don't sell much. It beats Shutterstock RPD, Shutterstock is 10X higher for monthly income. :D
I'm wondering what sites give the best return, even if it's not as many sales. ??? Maybe I need to add a site?
My RPD at IS is still about $1.45 and that's ignoring the PP sales which aren't IS sales.
Measuring RPD is pointless unless you are also taking volume into account. Alamy might have an excellent RPD with one sale per month but it won't do much for overall earnings.
Good thing Alamy isn't Microstock, it doesn't count for the question.
Same as RPI where I can delete the non-sellers and make it better. RPD is just one measure of the value, not the ultimate end. I agree with you, bottom line income is what I count, not statistics.
Tyler I just looked and I don't see the RPD percentages on the survey? Where is it? Thanks.
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I find it shocking that Istock and Shutterstock would have the largest RPD. I know they are the two sites that make the most income for people, overall, but the RPD at both is a great deal lower for me than at Dreamstime.
Maybe I am misunderstanding the question?
sorry, yeah, I misread the question. The survey asked Return per image, not return per download. In which case my answer would probably be Veer
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veer, canstock
funny putting exclusive options as for someone who is istock exclusive their best rpd has to be istock
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I find it shocking that Istock and Shutterstock would have the largest RPD. I know they are the two sites that make the most income for people, overall, but the RPD at both is a great deal lower for me than at Dreamstime.
Maybe I am misunderstanding the question?
sorry, yeah, I misread the question. The survey asked Return per image, not return per download. In which case my answer would probably be Veer
Ahh. Thanks for clarifying :)
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Measuring RPD is pointless unless you are also taking volume into account. Alamy might have an excellent RPD with one sale per month but it won't do much for overall earnings.
Yup.
I made an Alamy RM sale for $170 (minus their 40% commission of $68) last month. Great RPD, but in addition to the low volume, there's the enormous lag time before you get paid. The sale won't clear for a minimum of 45 days and then you get paid the month after that if your balance is over $250.
I'll take my lower RPD from IS any month TYVM.
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Veer, RPD $4.26 (Thanks to many extended licences)
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IS is giving me the best average RPD, followed by DT and SS, but SS is the only one that gives me enough sales to see payout with my small portfolio. I'm hoping the others will pick up as I add more images this year, but right now it's slow going for all but SS as far as total DL's per month.
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veer, canstock
funny putting exclusive options as for someone who is istock exclusive their best rpd has to be istock
It's the only way we could see the result, which could be interesting.
If an exclusive put answered 'iStock', that wouldn't be a balanced vote.
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I don't calculate that, but I would say it is DT, where once in a while I get a sale that gives me US$6-9. It's been a while since I got something at IS and FT over US$2.
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To those saying RPD is not important and that overall sales are important....you are missing a huge piece of statistics that can help us increase our income, this is extremely important information that can be very useful to the microstock community as a whole in deciding where to direct buyers. Some of us get asked from time to time what is the best site to buy from. If we all directed those buyers to the highest paying site we would start to see a shift of increased sales at those top paying sites. Just because a site makes the most overall earnings does not mean that is where I want to send my clients. We need to start joining together as a whole community and direct people to the places and sites that have the fairest RPD and then we will see those sites become the the highest earners. It is the ONLY piece of information we have as a community to help us decide where to direct clients. Fairly recently in another thread we sort of concluded (this survey may say something different) that Dreamstime and Canstock averaged the top two for RPD (not counting alamy). If clients switched from the high earners (Shutterstock and IS) to dreamstime and Canstock we would see almost double earnings. Obviously not in the best interest of IS exclusives, but seeing as only 14% of people are exclusive, it would be in the best interest of the majority to act together in pushing those few chances of referrals we get to Dreamstime and CS. If thousands of contributors start doing this it could start to make a little impact that would hopefully snowball as those buyers refer their friends and coworkers. We really need to stand up and act together on this issue and put our support behind those sites that continue to give the most fair payment for each download of our work. It seems like a microstock union is just not happening at this time, but that does not mean we can't work together in the only way we have available.
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... We need to start joining together as a whole community and direct people to the places and sites that have the fairest RPD and then we will see those sites become the the highest earners. It is the ONLY piece of information we have as a community to help us decide where to direct clients.
I was independent for nearly 4 years before becoming exclusive and with a couple of exceptions (Veer) the same players were around as are today. Most had been around since 2004 when I started. Dreamstime is still bumping along now where it was then - it hasn't gone away, but it hasn't been able to improve its position relative to the other agencies for most contributors. I'm not sure why you would believe that contributors could direct buyers in some way that 7+ years of market behavior haven't.
The same (but moreso) goes for CanStock. Duncan had a ton of innovative ideas and put a lot of work into the web site, but the business just never built.
The cynical side of me also worries that whichever site became the top dog might then behave badly and start cutting commissions (although DT has already cut commissions while still a lower-tier player). All of the sites were much more contributor friendly before they started making so much money :)
And BTW I didn't vote in the survey as I figured it was silly to have an exclusive vote.
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To those saying RPD is not important and that overall sales are important....you are missing a huge piece of statistics that can help us increase our income, this is extremely important information that can be very useful to the microstock community as a whole in deciding where to direct buyers. Some of us get asked from time to time what is the best site to buy from. If we all directed those buyers to the highest paying site we would start to see a shift of increased sales at those top paying sites. Just because a site makes the most overall earnings does not mean that is where I want to send my clients. We need to start joining together as a whole community and direct people to the places and sites that have the fairest RPD and then we will see those sites become the the highest earners. It is the ONLY piece of information we have as a community to help us decide where to direct clients. Fairly recently in another thread we sort of concluded (this survey may say something different) that Dreamstime and Canstock averaged the top two for RPD (not counting alamy). If clients switched from the high earners (Shutterstock and IS) to dreamstime and Canstock we would see almost double earnings. Obviously not in the best interest of IS exclusives, but seeing as only 14% of people are exclusive, it would be in the best interest of the majority to act together in pushing those few chances of referrals we get to Dreamstime and CS. If thousands of contributors start doing this it could start to make a little impact that would hopefully snowball as those buyers refer their friends and coworkers. We really need to stand up and act together on this issue and put our support behind those sites that continue to give the most fair payment for each download of our work. It seems like a microstock union is just not happening at this time, but that does not mean we can't work together in the only way we have available.
My site has one of the best RPDs, so everybody should band together and recommend that. ;D In all seriousness though, everyone's stats are different. As a vector artist, IS still has a better RPD than CanStockPhoto and Dreamstime. Also you have to factor in portfolio size too. You want to recommend sites that have a large amount of your content. I don't think you're going to get a consensus from everyone, but it doesn't hurt to think about what is best for your business. On a personal note, I've decided to purchase any images I need from direct artist sites or CanStockPhoto. I don't purchase much though.
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This site edits site abbreviations now to the full names? That's convenient. What are all the official abbreviations that it converts?
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The cynical side of me also worries that whichever site became the top dog might then behave badly and start cutting commissions (although Dreamstime has already cut commissions while still a lower-tier player). All of the sites were much more contributor friendly before they started making so much money :)
Fair comment but in truth Shutterstock alone has never cut commissions or reduced ToS for contributors. Together with BigStock they are now generating over 40% of my stock income with IS trailing at 29%. Month on month the gap is just getting ever wider too. Seems to me that the good guys are winning in the end and all the greedy *insult removed* are getting their comeuppance. Oringer just keeps on doing the right thing and it's working for him. Istock, in their obnoxious greed, have apparently thrown away a seemingly unassailable position __ to the one guy that always played it straight. You don't need to be cynical, just give credit where it's due and support those sites that actually deserve your support.
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And BTW I didn't vote in the survey as I figured it was silly to have an exclusive vote.
If there was no selection for an exclusive to vote their position, then someone could argue that of course IS was the best RDP there are exclusives counted in there, who don't sell anywhere else.
The idea in Leaf's survey and others is to identify any exclusives to make a distinction from people who have multiple agency sales.
By not answering you are accomplishing what? I don't get it? Not that anyone has to answer, but why would you avoid checking the box for exclusive with any agency?
For Gostwyck
Does every thread need to become an IS bashing thread? Including the one where matching donations are made to tsunami victims? I think the haters and IS detractors are losing credibility by finding fault with anything and everything then spamming all threads with their anti-IS venom. Sorry but it's wearing thin.
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Don't forget: Canstockphoto doesn't have a high RPD, only its distributors (Fotosearch) has. So don't guide potential buyers directly to Canstockphoto....
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You can't really compare RPD between subscription, credit sales, "trad"-linked and "own collection" sites.
If you direct someone to - say - iStock and they spend $100 on one silver-contributor's Vetta and one Agency file, have you done better than sending them to Shutterstock where they spend $250 on a subscription and $70 ends up being spread between the community?
If they will only buy credit packets, shouldn't you disregard the effect of subscription sales on RPD when considering DT and SS? That gives you a completely different RPD than when you factor in subscriptions (even more so for Fotolia, which seems to have become a subscription site now).
Do iStock's prices soak up the buyer's budget reducing the number of downloads, or will the number of downloads be constant regardless of price?
Without being able to answer these questions for each buyer you cannot work out which site will generate the most income for contributors.
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... We need to start joining together as a whole community and direct people to the places and sites that have the fairest RPD and then we will see those sites become the the highest earners. It is the ONLY piece of information we have as a community to help us decide where to direct clients.
I was independent for nearly 4 years before becoming exclusive and with a couple of exceptions (Veer) the same players were around as are today. Most had been around since 2004 when I started. Dreamstime is still bumping along now where it was then - it hasn't gone away, but it hasn't been able to improve its position relative to the other agencies for most contributors. I'm not sure why you would believe that contributors could direct buyers in some way that 7+ years of market behavior haven't.
The same (but moreso) goes for CanStock. Duncan had a ton of innovative ideas and put a lot of work into the web site, but the business just never built.
The cynical side of me also worries that whichever site became the top dog might then behave badly and start cutting commissions (although Dreamstime has already cut commissions while still a lower-tier player). All of the sites were much more contributor friendly before they started making so much money :)
And BTW I didn't vote in the survey as I figured it was silly to have an exclusive vote.
for me monthly earnings on canstock quadrupled in 2009, they then doubled again in 2010, so my earnings there are roughly 8-8.5x what they were in 2008. Now roughly a third of DT or FT who have both fallen in earnings (in line with commission cuts).
However in 2010 I added a large number of vectors which bring in $5.00 per sale so skew both earnings and rpd.
I have always liked Canstock but I dont promote them due to the $0.25 subscription
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I voted "other", which is kind of pointless. ClipartOf has by far the best RPD, but that of course depends on how you price your images. Next on my list is Veer, but with several ELs and not too many sales in general it's probably too early to tell.
Then Graphic Leftovers, then iStock, and then the rest...
Don't forget: Canstockphoto doesn't have a high RPD, only its distributors (Fotosearch) has. So don't guide potential buyers directly to Canstockphoto....
Why not ? It's a 50% commission agency. My RPD there is around $1.5, Fotosearch not included. Which is higher than Fotolia and other sites - and you know they make the same amount you make, so you don't feel ripped off.
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This site edits site abbreviations now to the full names? That's convenient. What are all the official abbreviations that it converts?
Yeah, I added that because there are a LOT of abbreviations that most people know but anyone new would have a very hard time reading what was actually said. Most of the top sites are included except istock (IS) because their abbreviation also spells a word :)
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And BTW I didn't vote in the survey as I figured it was silly to have an exclusive vote.
If there was no selection for an exclusive to vote their position, then someone could argue that of course IS was the best RDP there are exclusives counted in there, who don't sell anywhere else.
The idea in Leaf's survey and others is to identify any exclusives to make a distinction from people who have multiple agency sales.
By not answering you are accomplishing what? I don't get it? Not that anyone has to answer, but why would you avoid checking the box for exclusive with any agency?
For Gostwyck
Does every thread need to become an IS bashing thread? Including the one where matching donations are made to tsunami victims? I think the haters and IS detractors are losing credibility by finding fault with anything and everything then spamming all threads with their anti-IS venom. Sorry but it's wearing thin.
I just read through Gostwycks statement and I don't see that he was bashing IS or spamming the thread with anti-IS venom. But of course some think that that's all I do is bash IS, so even if you don't have me on ignore, you will probably dismiss me as some sort of stupid idiot, too.
Everyone here is allowed to speak. That's what a forum is for. As far as credibility, I don't think much less of someone's ability to shoot microstock or of their business acumen just because they think IS sucks. Compared to where IS was in the marketplace, now IS sucks. That's a fact. There are still a lot of people who still believe in IS and they are worried that all the negativity has actually hurt the company, thus hurting them. Therefore, they are trying to bash the people who are speaking out. Sounds like a push to me. ;)
edit: in regards to the actual topic of the thread, at one time IS had the highest RPD for me (oops, another bash) but now it is DT.
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So "Other" is winner. My "other" is Veer.
My RPD in February:
Veer 6,13
Canstock 2,08
BigStock 1,38
Fotolia 0,97
Dreamstime 0,85
123rf 0,69
Deposit 0,57
Shutterstock 0,44
PantherMedia 0,34
Vectostock 0,25
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Veer has been giving me the highest RPD by far.
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Of course I don't have you on ignore and Mr. Gost either. Much of the time the IS bashers have valid points and reasons, but when it comes to as soon as anything comes up about money, someone has to say "oh but those mean bigshots at IS did this..." including the latest thread about making donation sfor the disasted in Japan, which also turned into bashing IS and painting them as incompeitent for managing finances, even donations, when IS offerend to match funds? And the teleconference which turned into, NDA chracking, complaining about who was allowed, and more nit-picking. I find it less and less interesting to read anything here, because it keeps turning into the same thread and topics over and over.
That sameness involves, why Getty Sucks and why IS blows, ThinkStock & PP are raping the artists and why people aren't happy with them. Even if the question is, "where's the best return per image sale". >:(
It's wearing thin, redundant and boring. If you are defending going off topic on every thread on the whole forum as some freedom of speech issue, I guess it's time for me to go away, and find someplace where subjects and topics actually have some meaning.
Nothing personal, it's just about forum content and discussions staying on track.
I can appreciate why some people are angry when their best agency has turned on them, cut commissions, cut levels and sometimes seems disconnected from contributor issues, and unwilling to listen. Of course some people who have been banned from the IS forums have found a new home here to keep up their relentless attacks. Do we want this who forum to become the "I hate iSTock BB" ?
That's what's happening.
As for the actually subject of the survey, Veer seems to be very impressive, and I won't be going there. Sounds like a solid agency with some potential for growth and fair payment to artists. I wouldn't have know this, without the question and the people who answered.
And BTW I didn't vote in the survey as I figured it was silly to have an exclusive vote.
If there was no selection for an exclusive to vote their position, then someone could argue that of course IS was the best RDP there are exclusives counted in there, who don't sell anywhere else.
The idea in Leaf's survey and others is to identify any exclusives to make a distinction from people who have multiple agency sales.
By not answering you are accomplishing what? I don't get it? Not that anyone has to answer, but why would you avoid checking the box for exclusive with any agency?
For Gostwyck
Does every thread need to become an IS bashing thread? Including the one where matching donations are made to tsunami victims? I think the haters and IS detractors are losing credibility by finding fault with anything and everything then spamming all threads with their anti-IS venom. Sorry but it's wearing thin.
I just read through Gostwycks statement and I don't see that he was bashing IS or spamming the thread with anti-IS venom. But of course some think that that's all I do is bash IS, so even if you don't have me on ignore, you will probably dismiss me as some sort of stupid idiot, too.
Everyone here is allowed to speak. That's what a forum is for. As far as credibility, I don't think much less of someone's ability to shoot microstock or of their business acumen just because they think IS sucks. Compared to where IS was in the marketplace, now IS sucks. That's a fact. There are still a lot of people who still believe in IS and they are worried that all the negativity has actually hurt the company, thus hurting them. Therefore, they are trying to bash the people who are speaking out. Sounds like a push to me. ;)
edit: in regards to the actual topic of the thread, at one time IS had the highest RPD for me (oops, another bash) but now it is Dreamstime.
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Race, thank you. I've been seeing the same thing as well.
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Race, thank you. I've been seeing the same thing as well.
I didn't want to become the same thing I'm complaining about. ;)
I'm reading the thread with interest, wondering how Shutterstock can be the best Return Per Download, unless some people have a slew of ELs compared to my one a year.
I can understand IS because I get $1.40 - $1.50 there. Haven't figured it.
I also accept that the number is of little value except theoretical interest, because if I get one sale on site X for $100 and 200 sales on site B for $.75, I made more on site B! Kind of like getting paid $70 an hour as a consultant but I only work two hours a month and I get $70 a day somewhere else and work something like 60 days From April to Oct. Which one pays better? LOL
It's not like we're playing the lottery where I'd be happy with one $10,000 sale a year!
Maybe the OP should have asked, which is the worst average RPD, based on places that people actually contribute images to. Not their opinion of the worst places.