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Poll

Do you think MSG earning rating could be accurate?

Yes
23 (31.1%)
No
30 (40.5%)
Have no idea
21 (28.4%)

Total Members Voted: 67

Author Topic: Self-hosted 3rd, Dreamstime in middle tier  (Read 8262 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2013, 22:44 »
+6
We are getting too concerned with a number when it is really more about comparing the sites to each other.
Ask yourself if the relationships of the various agencies makes sense. For example can a person with a portfolio capable of selling 100 images a month on SS make between 1 and 2 sales on a self hosted site?
Probably yes.
Likewise can a person with a portfolio capable of 1000 sales on SS make around 13 sales a month on a self hosted site? Again probably yes.

SS Rpd around 80 cents x 100 sales = $80
Sym Rpd around $15 x 1.5 =$22.5
DT Rpd around $1.8 x 10 sales =$18

In other words approx 1 sym sale for every 50 SS sales or 10 DT sales.
I think this is entirely possible.

This relationship between sites is really what the poll is measuring and the actual number or numbers are kind of irrelevant.


« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2013, 23:02 »
0
This relationship between sites is really what the poll is measuring and the actual number or numbers are kind of irrelevant.

yes and no because it is very relative once we all have different sales in different agencies, I had zero sales at Zoonar last month and looking at the poll I should have had a few

the poll results don't show my earnings at all, the only way to find out is really experimenting each one

« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2013, 23:09 »
0
.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 01:12 by Audi 5000 »

« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2013, 23:15 »
0
Perhaps but that isn't the argument in this thread. The question is are the results believable? Based on how the sites relate to each other I believe the poll is reasonable. If you choose to add a value to it, so be it. For example if you would like to know how much your symbio site might earn based on the poll - all you really need to do is compare it to your SS and DT sales totals. Obviously how well you build your own site and promote it will skew the results but in general I believe it is very possible to sell 1-2 images on your own site for every 100 on SS.

« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2013, 23:16 »
0
This relationship between sites is really what the poll is measuring and the actual number or numbers are kind of irrelevant.

yes and no because it is very relative once we all have different sales in different agencies, I had zero sales at Zoonar last month and looking at the poll I should have had a few

the poll results don't show my earnings at all, the only way to find out is really experimenting each one
Exactly, if the poll just showed you what you already knew (i.e. it matched your numbers) then it would be completely useless.  If you want to know how much you'll make you have to contribute to those sites.  I think it's helpful to know what the average earnings are of people who are on this forum even if it isn't 100% exact.

right, the other "problem" is the amount of people contributing to the agency in question, Shutterstock must have a ton more poll entries so it must be more accurate, smaller agencies have less entries then less accurate

« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2013, 23:17 »
+1
Quote
I checked Microstock poll results and was very surprised to see the new classification, especially 'Self-hosted' (Symbiostock) on third position. If it is true, it is a revolution and very good news but I am rather skeptical.
If you have 1,000 or more images on Symbiostock and FAA, even one sale may put the combined self-hosted option above mid-tier agencies. 

« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2013, 23:19 »
0
Perhaps but that isn't the argument in this thread. The question is are the results believable? Based on how the sites relate to each other I believe the poll is reasonable. If you choose to add a value to it, so be it. For example if you would like to know how much your symbio site might earn based on the poll - all you really need to do is compare it to your SS and DT sales totals. Obviously how well you build your own site and promote it will skew the results but in general I believe it is very possible to sell 1-2 images on your own site for every 100 on SS.

that makes me want to join but again that is your average, I don't think I would have that ratio

« Reply #32 on: November 06, 2013, 23:21 »
0
Quote
I checked Microstock poll results and was very surprised to see the new classification, especially 'Self-hosted' (Symbiostock) on third position. If it is true, it is a revolution and very good news but I am rather skeptical.
If you have 1,000 or more images on Symbiostock and FAA, even one sale may put the combined self-hosted option above mid-tier agencies.

Self-Hosted 23 x 5 = 115$ (if 1 point = 5$)

one sale?

« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2013, 23:29 »
0
^
I just looked at the dollars - in my case or some other contributors who reported similar results
« Last Edit: November 06, 2013, 23:35 by LesPalenik »

« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2013, 23:38 »
0
^
I just looked at the dollars - in my case or some other contributors who reported similar results

never seen a symbio site with that kind of values, are you including FAA numbers on self hosted?

« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2013, 23:40 »
0
Perhaps but that isn't the argument in this thread. The question is are the results believable? Based on how the sites relate to each other I believe the poll is reasonable. If you choose to add a value to it, so be it. For example if you would like to know how much your symbio site might earn based on the poll - all you really need to do is compare it to your SS and DT sales totals. Obviously how well you build your own site and promote it will skew the results but in general I believe it is very possible to sell 1-2 images on your own site for every 100 on SS.

that makes me want to join but again that is your average, I don't think I would have that ratio
That's not my average. That is the average being reported by all of the self hosted contributors. FWIW my numbers don't match the poll results at all. That is why I keep my own records and when I started I contributed evenly to over 20 sites.
 I just chime in from time to time on this topic because it is very relevant to my uploading procedure and self hosted is a large portion of what I would like my future sales to look like. I really believe that self hosted is the most probable way for contributors to secure a reasonable future for ourselves. Furthermore I believe the more people that embrace self hosted the more likely it will be that I will still be making money off of my images 10 years from now.

« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2013, 23:46 »
+1
Quote
I believe it is very possible to sell 1-2 images on your own site for every 100 on SS.
I would say, it's more like 1 to 1000 (on SS subs)
but compared with other agencies, the ratio goes down drastically.

@ Luis
Quote
never seen a symbio site with that kind of values, are you including FAA numbers on self hosted?
Yes, I'm adding FAA and Symbio in self-hosted option. I don't know what values are you looking at, but if a mid tier agency generates only $5-$10 per month primarily from 20cents subs, it's not difficult to beat it with a combined/average month on FAA+Symbio even if those sales don't happen regularly.

« Last Edit: November 06, 2013, 23:57 by LesPalenik »

« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2013, 23:59 »
+1
FAA ain't self hosting ;D

« Reply #38 on: November 07, 2013, 00:17 »
0
FAA ain't self hosting ;D
OK, that moves direct sales, incl. Symbio from 3rd place to 4th place
« Last Edit: November 07, 2013, 00:29 by LesPalenik »

« Reply #39 on: November 07, 2013, 02:47 »
0

On a slightly off-topic note and related to making the pols more accurate, why are the options capped at $2500? Seems to me like this is the easiest thing to change to make the polls more accurate. I have to imagine that someone making $5,000 at SS and only being able to report $2,500 is really throwing off the results.


I capped it at $2500 so that those who are simply interested in spamming the results (with bogus high numbers) have minimal effect.  I could put the upper limit at a more realistic amount to reach everyone (probably closer to $20,000 somewhere) but then you'd have people abusing it.  I think the people trying to spam the results would out number the people who had a genuine $20,000 month on a given site.  That is why you can't say the Shutterstock average is $500*0.84  Because the people earning a high income are capped off.  They will all vote the max and all the middle people will vote the middle amounts and create a reasonable spread between the agencies. 

EmberMike

« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2013, 11:39 »
0
I capped it at $2500 so that those who are simply interested in spamming the results (with bogus high numbers) have minimal effect...

I get that, but wouldn't spam be an issue regardless of what the cap is? Right now people can still wildly exaggerate earnings. Someone making $100 can still vote for $2500 if they want to. I'm sure it happens, to the number for SS (or whatever someone's favorite site is regardless of actual earnings) is always going to be artificially inflated.

No doubt that's partially what we're seeing with self-hosted, because the current number just doesn't make any sense to me. Same for istock, exclusive and not. I suspect some people vote high on the exclusive option and low on the non-exclusive side based purely on how they feel about the company.

« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2013, 11:55 »
+1
I did not vote as i was not sure what self-hosted includes. But it more or less matches my results. My 3 sites (Photodeck, Photoshelter and Symbiostock) altogether is in second place only behind SS.


« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2013, 12:15 »
0
This poll also asks if the results could be accurate. That could either be interpreted as is there a way to make the microstock poll results so that they actually are accurate or is there a chance that the results as they are posted could be accurate.

note this poll does not ask if the results are accurate or if they are within any given percentage of accurate only if they could be.

I think that the actual averages are much lower because lots and lots of zero to no earners don't take part. Also a few high earners at a few high earning sites are capped. The actual distribution of earnings probably falls off very quickly with an enormously long tail.

There are all sorts of biases in any self reporting survey. Throw in some people with agendas that could mis-report or report more than once, different media, vectors vs. photos, not selling at a given site, etc. and there is a possibility for the numbers to be pretty far off. Still in general the relative positions seem reasonable to me - SS, IS, FOT, DT, 123 are probably doing better for most people than stockfresh and featurepics and so on.

« Reply #43 on: November 07, 2013, 13:30 »
0
I capped it at $2500 so that those who are simply interested in spamming the results (with bogus high numbers) have minimal effect...

I get that, but wouldn't spam be an issue regardless of what the cap is? Right now people can still wildly exaggerate earnings. Someone making $100 can still vote for $2500 if they want to. I'm sure it happens, to the number for SS (or whatever someone's favorite site is regardless of actual earnings) is always going to be artificially inflated.

No doubt that's partially what we're seeing with self-hosted, because the current number just doesn't make any sense to me. Same for istock, exclusive and not. I suspect some people vote high on the exclusive option and low on the non-exclusive side based purely on how they feel about the company.

I think the point of the cap is so a few people can't wildly skew the average of the majority that vote accurately. At least, I assume the majority of people vote accurately. Without the cap though, their vote could affect it a lot more. I suppose you could post the median or mode as well, but that probably gets too messy.

« Reply #44 on: November 07, 2013, 14:22 »
+1
I think the poll is accurate and shows the strength of self hosting. With 33 000 registered members there must be many who have had their own webshop for a while. And symbiostock has brought a big push to just go and do it.

So I wouldn't be surprised that more and more people do it, learn about it, share their experiences and improve. plus the customers learn that they can buy direct, so self hosting has a good momentum coming.

On your own shop there is no competition.  makes a huge difference.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2013, 16:21 by cobalt »

lisafx

« Reply #45 on: November 07, 2013, 18:19 »
+2
I capped it at $2500 so that those who are simply interested in spamming the results (with bogus high numbers) have minimal effect...

I get that, but wouldn't spam be an issue regardless of what the cap is? Right now people can still wildly exaggerate earnings. Someone making $100 can still vote for $2500 if they want to. I'm sure it happens, to the number for SS (or whatever someone's favorite site is regardless of actual earnings) is always going to be artificially inflated.

No doubt that's partially what we're seeing with self-hosted, because the current number just doesn't make any sense to me. Same for istock, exclusive and not. I suspect some people vote high on the exclusive option and low on the non-exclusive side based purely on how they feel about the company.

You may be right, but I really hope there aren't a lot of people doing that.  Why bother to participate in a poll at all if you don't want to contribute accurate data?

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #46 on: November 07, 2013, 18:47 »
0
I capped it at $2500 so that those who are simply interested in spamming the results (with bogus high numbers) have minimal effect...

I get that, but wouldn't spam be an issue regardless of what the cap is? Right now people can still wildly exaggerate earnings. Someone making $100 can still vote for $2500 if they want to. I'm sure it happens, to the number for SS (or whatever someone's favorite site is regardless of actual earnings) is always going to be artificially inflated.

No doubt that's partially what we're seeing with self-hosted, because the current number just doesn't make any sense to me. Same for istock, exclusive and not. I suspect some people vote high on the exclusive option and low on the non-exclusive side based purely on how they feel about the company.

You may be right, but I really hope there aren't a lot of people doing that.  Why bother to participate in a poll at all if you don't want to contribute accurate data?

Plus, even if someone loved iStock and being exclusive there, why would they want to encourage competition?
OTOH, if someone becomes exclusive, their files will then be on a level pegging with indie files classified as S, so no undercutting, at least until they randomly decide to demote more random files. (double random intended).

« Reply #47 on: November 07, 2013, 21:44 »
-1
I think that most people are voting even they dont have Symbio or whatever self hosting site and just voting by clicking numbers 100$ or more at selfhosting area.
I think in most realistic way, place of self hosting sites as average is at the border of Middle and low earners.

Leo Blanchette

« Reply #48 on: November 07, 2013, 22:17 »
0
Depends on the seller. It also can be feast or famine with my site. But on the "feast" months it can go quite high.


 

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