Author Topic: Making people sign model releases - Indonesia (Read 6636 times)

Zerkalo · « **on:** July 04, 2011, 08:21 »

Hello folks,

I am off to a 4 week trip to Indonesia in short time. I will be mostly travelling in less famous places and a lot among the local people. That's very nice for photography of course. Next to editorial (I submit in IS) I would like to also make some shots of local people posing actually.

Does anybody have some experience here? How do you approach people and explain them the logic of a model release especially in remote and authentic locations?

Do you also know if we have to make a picture of the ID all the time? Or can they just hold a filled in MR and I photograph the the person holding the MR?

Any comment is welcome

Mantis · « **Reply #1 on:** July 04, 2011, 09:07 »

Quote from: Zerkalo on July 04, 2011, 08:21

Hello folks,

I am off to a 4 week trip to Indonesia in short time. I will be mostly travelling in less famous places and a lot among the local people. That's very nice for photography of course. Next to editorial (I submit in IS) I would like to also make some shots of local people posing actually.

Does anybody have some experience here? How do you approach people and explain them the logic of a model release especially in remote and authentic locations?

Do you also know if we have to make a picture of the ID all the time? Or can they just hold a filled in MR and I photograph the the person holding the MR?

I spent a few weeks there not too long ago and I hired a taxi driver who drove and also was my translator to help with communication. Have a few bucks ready. They love money. Most speak English, too. And it depends if you will be in Christian or Muslim regions. Christian are less superstitous in my opinion.

Any comment is welcome

RT · « **Reply #2 on:** July 04, 2011, 11:09 »

Quote from: Zerkalo on July 04, 2011, 08:21

Does anybody have some experience here? How do you approach people and explain them the logic of a model release especially in remote and authentic locations?

I've never been there but if it were me I'd consider getting something translated into the local language that tells them exactly what you're after and how the images will be used, you might also consider getting a model release translated then they can see that what they're signing on the English form you're presenting them with. Then a photo of them holding both (in RAW obviously).

Microstock Posts · « **Reply #3 on:** July 04, 2011, 23:37 »

Indonesians are in general some of the easiest people to deal with, especially if you are going to where not many foreigners go to. In general they are extremely flattered that you want to take photos of them, however many of them can be quite shy. The character of the people differs from island to island, but I'm sure u won't find too many problems taking photos of them. It really is a breeze taking photos here compared to the West. Sometimes if I can see that the person I am photographing is particularly poor, I will give them some money, 50 cents, a dollar etc. But it isn't necessary also, the only time I have been asked for money for taking photos is from the Balinese, but as you can imagine with the whole world coming to this island, the local people often just see us as a walking wallets.

For the model release, you need to get a phone number, a lot of them have mobiles or their family members will have mobiles, plus getting a witness for the shoot is pretty easy. Learn the words "minta izin" which means can I ask for your permission. Say it as it's spelt, with rising intonation.

These people are very perceptive in terms of being able to read you. If you are a sincere guy, they pick up on it easily, the same as if you have bad intent. So be friendly with them, smile a lot, enjoy their company and you just won't have any problems photographing them or getting releases. You don't need a translation, it will just slow you down. If they ask why, "kenapa" just reply "perlu izin", I need your permission. That really should be enough.

travelstock · « **Reply #4 on:** July 05, 2011, 00:11 »

Quote from: Microstock Posts on July 04, 2011, 23:37

Indonesians are in general some of the easiest people to deal with, especially if you are going to where not many foreigners go to. In general they are extremely flattered that you want to take photos of them, however many of them can be quite shy. The character of the people differs from island to island, but I'm sure u won't find too many problems taking photos of them. It really is a breeze taking photos here compared to the West. Sometimes if I can see that the person I am photographing is particularly poor, I will give them some money, 50 cents, a dollar etc. But it isn't necessary also, the only time I have been asked for money for taking photos is from the Balinese, but as you can imagine with the whole world coming to this island, the local people often just see us as a walking wallets.

For the model release, you need to get a phone number, a lot of them have mobiles or their family members will have mobiles, plus getting a witness for the shoot is pretty easy. Learn the words "minta izin" which means can I ask for your permission. Say it as it's spelt, with rising intonation.

These people are very perceptive in terms of being able to read you. If you are a sincere guy, they pick up on it easily, the same as if you have bad intent. So be friendly with them, smile a lot, enjoy their company and you just won't have any problems photographing them or getting releases. You don't need a translation, it will just slow you down. If they ask why, "kenapa" just reply "perlu izin", I need your permission. That really should be enough.

What you're asking them to do is sign a legal document - if they can't read it, the whole process is meaningless. Good luck trying to get that enforced if it ever becomes an issue. Sorry but both from an ethical and legal perspective what you're suggesting is just wrong.

Microstock Posts · « **Reply #5 on:** July 05, 2011, 00:20 »

Quote from: holgs on July 05, 2011, 00:11

What you're asking them to do is sign a legal document - if they can't read it, the whole process is meaningless. Good luck trying to get that enforced if it ever becomes an issue. Sorry but both from an ethical and legal perspective what you're suggesting is just wrong.

No, because I tell them that I am a photographer and sell the images online. I can speak the language, ah on second thoughts then yes, maybe it is better for the OP to have a translation.

travelstock · « **Reply #6 on:** July 05, 2011, 01:11 »

Quote from: Microstock Posts on July 05, 2011, 00:20

Quote from: holgs on July 05, 2011, 00:11
What you're asking them to do is sign a legal document - if they can't read it, the whole process is meaningless. Good luck trying to get that enforced if it ever becomes an issue. Sorry but both from an ethical and legal perspective what you're suggesting is just wrong.

No, because I tell them that I am a photographer and sell the images online. I can speak the language, ah on second thoughts then yes, maybe it is better for the OP to have a translation.

The consent their signing isn't for you to be able to sell the image, its to allow for commercial use of that image, usually by a third party. Getting any person to sign a document which they can't read, from which you plan to benefit is a potentially risky exercise - usually more so for the end user than for you though. Obviously there are ways of getting around it - a translator comes to mind - but a cursory explanation from someone who plans to benefit from the signature usually wouldn't cut it. Obviously that doesn't stop many from doing it that way.

Personally I'd be curious to know how you even go about finding the legal guardians of Cambodian postcard sellers (for example) and explaining the whole process to them.

Microstock Posts · « **Reply #7 on:** July 05, 2011, 01:44 »

Quote from: holgs on July 05, 2011, 01:11

Quote from: Microstock Posts on July 05, 2011, 00:20
Quote from: holgs on July 05, 2011, 00:11
What you're asking them to do is sign a legal document - if they can't read it, the whole process is meaningless. Good luck trying to get that enforced if it ever becomes an issue. Sorry but both from an ethical and legal perspective what you're suggesting is just wrong.

No, because I tell them that I am a photographer and sell the images online. I can speak the language, ah on second thoughts then yes, maybe it is better for the OP to have a translation.

The consent their signing isn't for you to be able to sell the image, its to allow for commercial use of that image, usually by a third party. Getting any person to sign a document which they can't read, from which you plan to benefit is a potentially risky exercise - usually more so for the end user than for you though. Obviously there are ways of getting around it - a translator comes to mind - but a cursory explanation from someone who plans to benefit from the signature usually wouldn't cut it. Obviously that doesn't stop many from doing it that way.

Personally I'd be curious to know how you even go about finding the legal guardians of Cambodian postcard sellers (for example) and explaining the whole process to them.

Holgs, I spent 2 days at the Wats with an English speaking guide. Pretty much one of the days I was there was spent at Bayon temple. There are entire families at all the Wats selling stuff to tourists. These kids parents were there also. It really wasn't very difficult. I also have plenty of other portraits in my collection which have been submitted as editorial, as I was unable to have model releases completed or sometimes I just didn't have a model release form.

Zerkalo · « **Reply #8 on:** July 05, 2011, 04:52 »

Thanks for the comments so far.

I am not planning to abuse any good intention, whatsoever. In the end I will explain these people as much as I can. I have local guide with me as well. In the end there is an editorial option too.

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Author Topic: Making people sign model releases - Indonesia (Read 6636 times)

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