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Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Stock Discussion => Topic started by: Brasilnut on February 08, 2020, 14:07
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Evidence indicates that Adobe Stock is emerging as a strong contender to soon overtake Shutterstock as a stock-photography cash-cow for many contributors.
In this exclusive stats-heavy blog post I’ll explore potential trends emerging in this rivalry for the coveted first spot in contributors’ hearts and wallets. This way we can try to draw an accurate picture of what is the reality other than pure speculation.
Would be great to share (within reason, of course) your own experiences, in particular which types of content do better at AS vs SS.
https://brutallyhonestmicrostock.com/2020/02/08/shutterstock-vs-adobe-stock/
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If you have the same portfolio on both sites it might not be too significant if one is going down and the other is going up.
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More a case of SS going down while AS stays level. Newer images do seem to sell more on AS though, so eventually they should pass SS if this trend continues.
Don't mix up RPD and RPI (or RPA) Return Per Download vs Return Per Image (or Asset). RPD is fairly meaningless without the volume. Still RPD and RPI have both been dropping at SS. Both because of less total downloads and less downloads for more than the minimum not to mention the near total disappearance of high value sales.
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It's near impossible to see revenue growth with Shutterstock and their current review policy of rejecting the same image 5 times for 5 different reasons. That same image in particular has sold 3 times on Adobe Stock, even if it was out of focus, wrong orientation, overexposed, etc etc etc.
I value my time, so I no longer resubmit to an agency that rejects for reasons that defy logic.
My prediction based on this current environment is that Adobe Stock revenue will soon outpace Shutterstock revenue, mainly due to the fact that if Adobe does reject an image/video/illustration it most likely is a valid rejection.
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I have a bit smaller port on Adobe and I get more downloads and at worst two times more RPD. Also new files get traction, while on SS I hardly sell anything new, I doubled my port and it did nothing, just same old bestsellers mostly.
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Look forward to it, the best is currently ss, :-*
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If you have the same portfolio on both sites it might not be too significant if one is going down and the other is going up.
Impossible to have the same portfolio on both for many of us. Especially when there's Editorial on SS and not on AS. But then there are illustrations accepted on AS (for me) that aren't allowed on SS. Quite the apples vs oranges situation. Also personally 4700 vs 600. Images rejected by AS are on SS, images rejected by SS are accepted on AS? :o
With that, I just want to add what should be "as a personal note" RPD on SS has been falling, RPD on AS has always been higher. I only joined AS after they bought FT.
I'm happy with both, considering the other choices and their terrible returns.
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Shutterstock support very bad, mostly they no longer want to serve their customers. Maybe that's why recent sales have dropped!
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More a case of SS going down while AS stays level. Newer images do seem to sell more on AS though, so eventually they should pass SS if this trend continues.
Don't mix up RPD and RPI (or RPA) Return Per Download vs Return Per Image (or Asset). RPD is fairly meaningless without the volume. Still RPD and RPI have both been dropping at SS. Both because of less total downloads and less downloads for more than the minimum not to mention the near total disappearance of high value sales.
RPD is very significant because total volume of downloads has been stagnant (at least compared to the rapid growth of image libraries). A lower RPD inevitably means less money for us as the drop is due to agencies competing with each other on price while we aren't seeing a corresponding increase in download numbers. All this talk of new markets has always turned out to be nonsense.
If we want to see more money we need to concentrate somewhat on RPD and send newer and better work to better paying sites. Buyers are happy to pay more for the same volume if they have to, but will of course gravitate to cheaper sites if they have that option for the same images.
With re. to RPI I would recommend analysing the stats SS releases for image library size vs total payout increases over the years. Mind blowing how much library growth has been outstripping sales growth for the last 8ish years.
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Coincidence that since shutterstock introduced the new improved contributor portfolio view in December that sales have crashed?
In my case by 40-50% :'(
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Coincidence that since shutterstock introduced the new improved contributor portfolio view in December that sales have crashed?
In my case by 40-50% :'(
On this I am with you :(
And yes there are some months that, for me, the sales on Shutterstock are decreasing and the ones on Adobe Stock are increasing.
In fact I see more SS decreasing than AS increasing…
But I don't think that Adobe Stock will "soon overtake Shutterstock" as expressed in the OP.
Probably it will, but surely not so soon.
And perhaps it is more accurate to say that Shutterstock will undertake Adobe Stock, rather than saying that Adobe Stock will overtake Shutterstock. :(
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adobe has a much higher rpd in my case, and it's growing strong but ss is keeping strong first due to many 100 and 5a nd more sales while adobe lack completely this, but it has many 3,3 dollar sale that make for an rpd that is 1,5 dollar in the last two months....
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The biggest difference for me is as simple as this:
So far this month, I'm at $168 total income on Adobe Stock.
Today alone on Shutterstock, I sold one clip where my commission was $168.
Crazy difference.
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last week i see adobe falling down...don' t know but super slow...i know i shall begin shooting video.
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i know i shall begin shooting video
from a drone?
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For me:
- Nearly equal income on SS and AS
- Both earning about the same as 2019 so far
- Port is about 99% the same on both (due to a very infrequent 'similar' rejection on SS.)
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last week completely dead as
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I started in 2015
Blue = Shutterstock (1086 images and videos)
Orange = Fotolia / Adobe (1081 images and videos)
Adobe is the best RPD and is improving every day.
But the SS for me is unbeatable, for me.
Last year stagnated just like 2018, but still always the best agency in the final total.
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I sell a lot more on AS than SS, both photos and videos. I also like AS more, they accept a lot more than SS.
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In 2012 I started on SS having been on AS/FT since 2008. I have almost the same number of images on both (5% more on AS). Almost no editorial and SS even today makes consistently 3-4X more than AS for me in an average month and that used to be 10X. AS sometimes brings a surprise with a $50 custom sale but they're less frequent than $20-$50 SODs at SS. New images seem to have more 'chance' at AS but with SS 'new' is pretty hopeless. (In the good old days with SS 'new' submissions found a place on the first page of new for a day or so). Now that's down to a matter of minutes or hours before they're deluged under a pile (in the non-niche categories) never to be seen again.
If I take RPD over lifetime with both AS and SS, I see that both are around 0.70; the only difference being that AS is in GBP (£) and SS is in USD ($). With 4 years less at SS, I have a factor 3-4X as many dl's at SS compared to AS.
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checked last year february and this year in practice day by day the same trend., big sales in the same days, from 9 to 15 practically a complete slow down, then strong last ten days....foor me it-s not even a surprise cause I'm 100% that the level off sales is totally controlled by ss to sustain the wish of every contributors to upload...but always funny to see it...at best i have a fixed income that can be bad but sometimes even good.
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In my case, it's rather obvious that AS is on the rise since mid-2018, but at the expense of IS.
SS's share is rather stable (maybe even improved a little).
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I think this explains a lot.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/shutterstock-reports-fourth-quarter-full-120200323.html
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shutterstock is losing 8per cent at nasdaq after the @ brilliant@ outlook...well deserved but not enough i wish heir stock go to 2 dollar at least even ringer will suffer a bit...they are killing a business and people who seriously spent time contributing without any reason really...70 millions content added 99% of which are garbage and totally useless....they kare killing any serious contributor and this is the results...practically zero growth, skyrocketing cost, falling down edit....good job shutter subs.
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Gotta love threads like this. One person says, SS is killing their business by accepting crap. Another says, they like AS because they don't reject their work as often. Seems like you can find whatever you want.
RPD is higher on AS, earnings are higher on SS, except some people where, AS has passed SS.
SS even today makes consistently 3-4X more than AS for me in an average month
If I take RPD over lifetime with both AS and SS, I see that both are around 0.70; the only difference being that AS is in GBP (£) and SS is in USD ($). With 4 years less at SS, I have a factor 3-4X as many dl's at SS compared to AS.
I have plenty of editorial on SS and none on AS, but still my numbers are similar to OM. Around the same RPD on both, and roughly 4x more sales on SS. No way mine is a fair comparison. Most of my sales on AS are files that SS doesn't take, and 50% of my sales on SS are Editorial files that AS doesn't accept. The simple point is, SS is still four times more money per month, for me, than SS. No video on either.
I suspect that we all have different kinds of content and subjects, so comparing my sales to anyone else is pretty meaningless. If we all had the same type files, subjects and content, then there might be something?
No sign of controlled sales for me, must only be for special people. ::) I wish I had a quota or fixed level, instead of these ups and downs on SS. 8) Where's my fixed income!!! I want my monthly quota!
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I have far more income from SS than from AS, with about the same number of files on both.
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I sell a lot more on AS than SS, both photos and videos. I also like AS more, they accept a lot more than SS.
AS is improving every week, SS with impressive consistency is going down.
Last month, for the first time, I earned more on AS. February is much better so far too. And I have 30% of images which are on SS and havent been uploaded to AS so far.
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They're both terrible this month. Adobe moreso.
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For me Adobe is since 2 years much better than SS, maybe it depends on where you are coming from.
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Both have been normal for me.
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Shutterstock support very bad, mostly they no longer want to serve their customers. Maybe that's why recent sales have dropped!
Do you mean their customers or their contributors?
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Both have been normal for me.
(https://i.postimg.cc/63p6VSfw/abby-something-microstock.jpg)
I'm getting paid back, relative to what effort I put in. When I work harder I make more. There is no SS vs AS for me because the images are different numbers, different content and different subjects or styles. Some sell better or worse at each.
SS is same DL #s as the past, lower RPD. Adobe is steady RPD, less images, less sales.
As things look right now, early in the year, and if nothing changes, (new CEO at SS) Adobe will pass SS in the poll here by June. That's assuming everyone reports their earnings honestly. The change is inevitable. AS 33 - 66 - 99 subs, (bronze entry level until 1000 downloads) while SS pays 25 starting, 33 $500, 36 until you reach $10,000 then 38 cents after that.
Easy to see that AS subs, at entry level, pay back higher than SS 38¢ at the top level. $500 is pretty easy, then consider how long it takes people now, to reach $10,000 on SS? For 2 cents more? That's around 27,000 downloads to the top level, for anyone who cares to project their future at SS.
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At AS my subs are mostly €0.99 these days with lowest €0.38 ($0.41) so always better then the $0.38 (€0.35) subs at SS. Sales volume is still lacking though and doesn't keep me motivated enough to continue.
SS is garbage these days. "Controlled earnings" are the two words that come up in my mind every time I look at my stats. They also seem to prefer a certain group of contributors which makes them almost discriminating but then they do as they please. Like many others I also think it is inevitable that AS will take over the throne in the near future.
In the end it doesn't matter anymore who's better, for us it's a no-win situation anyway :-\
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At AS my subs are mostly €0.99 these days with lowest €0.38 ($0.41) so always better then the $0.38 (€0.35) subs at SS. Sales volume is still lacking though and doesn't keep me motivated enough to continue.
SS is garbage these days. "Controlled earnings" are the two words that come up in my mind every time I look at my stats. They also seem to prefer a certain group of contributors which makes them almost discriminating but then they do as they please. Like many others I also think it is inevitable that AS will take over the throne in the near future.
In the end it doesn't matter anymore who's better, for us it's a no-win situation anyway :-\
1,35 rpd in adobe vs 0,70 ss from beginning of year....ss sales much more but adobe is recovering, also much less files in adobe.
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AS has the higher RPD but the number and amount of sales are significantly lower than those of SS.
After looking at top sellers at AS, I began to suspect that it's because most of my images, although commercial qualified, are geared toward editorial use while most of AS customers are commercial-type. Since AS doesn't have as many editorial materials as other agencies, the editorial-type customers are probably omitting it and seeking them elsewhere.
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Overall is Adobe easier to work with than SS? Are Adobe employees more reasonable, responsive and easier to communicate with overall?
Also does anyone how many buyers each of the companies has? Does on have a larger number of buyers than the other?
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Perhaps it would be "fair" for people getting the annual free cloud plan
either to add in "earnings" the amount of Adobe products free use
either to put a minus in yearly operational costs for software?
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Overall is Adobe easier to work with than SS? Are Adobe employees more reasonable, responsive and easier to communicate with overall?
Also does anyone how many buyers each of the companies has? Does on have a larger number of buyers than the other?
Adobe are much better to work with not least as you don't need to contact them often as their system is much more stable and they don't do so many stupid things.
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Shutterstock support very bad, mostly they no longer want to serve their customers. Maybe that's why recent sales have dropped!
If you mean "contributors," I agree.
Overall is Adobe easier to work with than SS? Are Adobe employees more reasonable, responsive and easier to communicate with overall?
Also does anyone how many buyers each of the companies has? Does on have a larger number of buyers than the other?
I am not a big fan of AS support.
The only person we can really rely on is Mat Hayward (thanks Mat for being here!).
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Shutterstock support very bad, mostly they no longer want to serve their customers. Maybe that's why recent sales have dropped!
If you mean "contributors," I agree.
Overall is Adobe easier to work with than SS? Are Adobe employees more reasonable, responsive and easier to communicate with overall?
Also does anyone how many buyers each of the companies has? Does on have a larger number of buyers than the other?
I am not a big fan of AS support.
The only person we can really rely on is Mat Hayward (thanks Mat for being here!).
Have you ever tried the forum? It's monitored by Adobe staff, it's not like chat forums like SS or Alamy.
https://community.adobe.com/t5/stock/bd-p/stock?page=1&sort=latest_replies&filter=all
When I've written email to support, someone has always responded. You must have some tough questions?
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For the first time my monthly sales at Adobe beat SS. Sadly not because Adobe sales were good (marginally above average) SS have tanked for me Jan/Feb.
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Taking the value of the Adobe CC into consideration, Adobe beats SS for me for 2020 so far, but by next month I'm pretty sure SS will be ahead. While my Adobe sales are increasing (and I now have about the same # files on each - way more editorial on SS - more illustrations on Adobe) and my new images are doing about the same on both sites, SS is consistently earning me more. But both are increasing for the first time in about 2 years.
Generally my RPD on Adobe is better, but on SS a $20+ enhanced license for a new image and lots of on demands - something I haven't seen in quite a while changed that - even without the EL my RPD on SS would have been higher in February thanks to daily ELs for the entire second half of the month.
But even in a normal month where RPD on SS is lower, they generally beat Adobe in earnings, though it's been close a few times, when I've had a bad month on SS. It's more a case of SS tanking as some have said.
On both sites, this was my best month in a year, unusual for February and hoping it's a sign that things are improving there after a lackluster 2019, 2020 has been strong (though I remember the days when I would have considered last month's "strong" earnings to be an average month, when my portfolio was about 1/5th the size it is now).
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Just a note: March 1st 2020
Top Tier - Big 4
AdobeStock 59
Shutterstock 58.7
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I did very well at the old Fotolia but when turning Emerald it stopped and by the time Adobe took over its been downhill ever since. I'm afraid I have not got too much faith left in these two agencies.
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In my case, Adobe is far away from Shutterstock.. it was a good trend, while lasted.. but suddenly, turnaround... and now sales at Adobe are totally random..
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C'mon people! take a decision! should we or should we not flood Adobe curation with millions of content? Is this the 2020 "how to earn fast" trend? ;)
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I say this with 3 x more assets on SS than AS since starting in Feb 2019, but if not for SS this wouldn't be worth it at all.
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I say this with 3 x more assets on SS than AS since starting in Feb 2019, but if not for SS this wouldn't be worth it at all.
Will say also that it would be good if my AS sales pick up. I feel going forward that AS (having taken their time with building their database) have a far better quality one than SS who had opened the floodgates and now trying to reign it in with all these ridiculous rejections - rejecting not only poor quality but good salability content.
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I did very well at the old Fotolia but when turning Emerald it stopped and by the time Adobe took over its been downhill ever since. I'm afraid I have not got too much faith left in these two agencies.
Adobe is not Fotolia, that should be obvious? Anything that happened when it was Fotolia ended years ago, including management.
If you have no faith in the two best earning and largest agencies, I hope you have something else in mind. The rest, all of Microstock, if you had 40 more agencies wouldn't earn as much and these two alone.
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Believe it or not I make more on 123rf then Adobe.
I use to buy photos on Adobe but they removed the credit system, forcing a subscription plan so I started buying from DT.
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Just a note: March 1st 2020
Top Tier - Big 4
AdobeStock 59
Shutterstock 58.7
March 7th 2020
Shutterstock 64.1
AdobeStock 61.7
It looks like things are getting back to normal after Adobe's one week lead. No quick and permanent changes in the poll results after all.
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Believe it or not I make more on 123rf then Adobe.
I use to buy photos on Adobe but they removed the credit system, forcing a subscription plan so I started buying from DT.
Not? ;) OK yes I believe you, that is unusual. Same images, same numbers? Don't leave 123RF!!!
I make more on SS than AS but the RPD is higher on AS, I'm just short about 4,000 images between the two and that's the difference. They will never be the same for me, unless Adobe starts taking Editorial. And unfortunately SS doesn't take my illustrations. Very different worlds for what I do.
Just an aside, the original Ripley's Believe it Or Not, newspaper cartoons, actually had questionable stories, they said... believe it or not, they didn't say what they wrote was factual. Or another way to say it, there was a nugget of truth in all of them.
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Believe it or not I make more on 123rf then Adobe.
I use to buy photos on Adobe but they removed the credit system, forcing a subscription plan so I started buying from DT.
great, 123rf is very lazy in selling my work :D
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I think we should start a petition for Adobe to start accepting editorial material. Now I think would be a great time for the that to happen. If a number of us express interest in supplying them with that type of material we might be able to get them to consider it more seriously.
Any thoughts?
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Any thoughts?
a. if the accept they will be flooded with random snappers submitting whatever
b. they will not accept
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I think we should start a petition for Adobe to start accepting editorial material. Now I think would be a great time for the that to happen. If a number of us express interest in supplying them with that type of material we might be able to get them to consider it more seriously.
Any thoughts?
I'm surprised they haven't already. Editorials present relatively minimal regulatory risks to agencies vs commercial.
They now accept illustrative editorial which is a good start.
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I think we should start a petition for Adobe to start accepting editorial material. Now I think would be a great time for the that to happen. If a number of us express interest in supplying them with that type of material we might be able to get them to consider it more seriously.
Any thoughts?
I'm surprised they haven't already. Editorials present relatively minimal regulatory risks to agencies vs commercial.
They now accept illustrative editorial which is a good start.
I have to wonder if they don't accept editorial from "regular contributors" because of deals they have with editorial suppliers
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I haven't sold any new images in months, maybe even years at both agencies. Silly me I keep uploading though. I think I'm out of this business this year since I spend many hours, sometimes days on one image or clip and they are just not worth it. They never were with these low prices/sales/reviews anyway but these days they are far more of an annoyance. Most of the time even thinking about Microstock depresses me. I'm just not cut out for this. I don't see much difference between us and prostitutes (and not even the classy ones)
I'll feed them a few more to test the waters and be certain they do hide my work/sales and then it's bye bye.
I've told this to a fellow contributor a few days ago, the lowest an artist can sink is working with Microstock agencies and to be honest it never felt right from the start.
I also feel even during these difficult times they still like to play games, be it their reviewers or other staff and that is pretty disgraceful if you ask me.
Good luck people and be well!
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I haven't sold any new images in months, maybe even years at both agencies. Silly me I keep uploading though. I think I'm out of this business this year since I spend many hours, sometimes days on one image or clip and they are just not worth it. They never were with these low prices/sales/reviews anyway but these days they are far more of an annoyance. Most of the time even thinking about Microstock depresses me. I'm just not cut out for this. I don't see much difference between us and prostitutes (and not even the classy ones)
I'll feed them a few more to test the waters and be certain they do hide my work/sales and then it's bye bye.
I've told this to a fellow contributor a few days ago, the lowest an artist can sink is working with Microstock agencies and to be honest it never felt right from the start.
I also feel even during these difficult times they still like to play games, be it their reviewers or other staff and that is pretty disgraceful if you ask me.
Good luck people and be well!
It could be your style of work is not the right fit for microstock, but is your work in demand anywhere else? What kind of images do you shoot or make?
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I haven't sold any new images in months, maybe even years at both agencies. Silly me I keep uploading though. I think I'm out of this business this year since I spend many hours, sometimes days on one image or clip and they are just not worth it. They never were with these low prices/sales/reviews anyway but these days they are far more of an annoyance. Most of the time even thinking about Microstock depresses me. I'm just not cut out for this. I don't see much difference between us and prostitutes (and not even the classy ones)
I'll feed them a few more to test the waters and be certain they do hide my work/sales and then it's bye bye.
I've told this to a fellow contributor a few days ago, the lowest an artist can sink is working with Microstock agencies and to be honest it never felt right from the start.
I also feel even during these difficult times they still like to play games, be it their reviewers or other staff and that is pretty disgraceful if you ask me.
Good luck people and be well!
Perhaps you haven't worked in old fashioned tv-marketing that's why you believe this...
::)
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I haven't sold any new images in months, maybe even years at both agencies. Silly me I keep uploading though. I think I'm out of this business this year since I spend many hours, sometimes days on one image or clip and they are just not worth it. They never were with these low prices/sales/reviews anyway but these days they are far more of an annoyance. Most of the time even thinking about Microstock depresses me. I'm just not cut out for this. I don't see much difference between us and prostitutes (and not even the classy ones)
I'll feed them a few more to test the waters and be certain they do hide my work/sales and then it's bye bye.
I've told this to a fellow contributor a few days ago, the lowest an artist can sink is working with Microstock agencies and to be honest it never felt right from the start.
I also feel even during these difficult times they still like to play games, be it their reviewers or other staff and that is pretty disgraceful if you ask me.
Good luck people and be well!
Perhaps you haven't worked in old fashioned tv-marketing that's why you believe this...
::)
Debt collections, or fast food would also come to mind? ;D