Author Topic: Significance of Microstock Poll Results (Read 14309 times)

WarrenPrice · « **on:** January 26, 2010, 11:35 »

As mentioned in an earlier thread, there is a lot of red on the right ... under the Earnings Rating of the Microstock Poll Results. I wonder what effect placement in that poll may have on success or failure of an agency. I am especially interested in the progress of Cutcaster. It has a green arrow and seems to be moving higher in the ratings. Is that any indication of success or, strictly an anomaly?

lisafx · « **Reply #1 on:** January 26, 2010, 11:38 »

It's actually sort of comforting. My sales are down pretty much across the board at the moment, and I guess misery loves company...

vonkara · « **Reply #2 on:** January 26, 2010, 11:48 »

Quote from: lisafx on January 26, 2010, 11:38

It's actually sort of comforting. My sales are down pretty much across the board at the moment, and I guess misery loves company...

LOL well said

RacePhoto · « **Reply #3 on:** January 26, 2010, 12:31 »

Quote from: WarrenPrice on January 26, 2010, 11:35

As mentioned in an earlier thread, there is a lot of red on the right ... under the Earnings Rating of the Microstock Poll Results. I wonder what effect placement in that poll may have on success or failure of an agency. I am especially interested in the progress of Cutcaster. It has a green arrow and seems to be moving higher in the ratings. Is that any indication of success or, strictly an anomaly?

I don't sell on Cutcaster, so I don't vote on them. Many people don't submit to Cutcaster. The statistical margin of error is much greater if the sample is smaller. Or in other words, if only 57 people take the poll for Cutcaster and 5 are voting high, it will make the results go way up. Since the site seems to be benign, there probably aren't the hate votes that the top agencies get for rejections or disappointing sales results. The top six get almost four times the voters that CC does. CC has low expectations, low sales and not as many people care either way?

But something else with statistics, they get a 2.9 and went up .45 which means from 2.45 to 2.9. If one person votes and gives them a 10, they will go from 2.9 to 3.02, or a gain of .12 for one vote.

The average person who cares about CC voted them less than a 3, which may say more than a "happiness meter" little green arrow, going up or red one down? The number may be more important? I don't know for sure.

But most important to consider, there are no guidelines or standards for how to rate the agencies. It's a popularity contest with no scoring scale. What is a three? Is bottom 30% of the scale a bad score or just a number? For example if you scored a 29 on a test, you would be excited about getting one more question right and getting that moved up to a 30 (thus a little green arrow) when the top agencies have scores about double that?

donding · « **Reply #4 on:** January 26, 2010, 12:54 »

I personally don't look at the polls. I've never really noticed an increase or decrease in sales because of the polls.

WarrenPrice · « **Reply #5 on:** January 26, 2010, 13:01 »

Thanks, Race, for that detailed response. THAT is probably the most enlightening description of those arrows and numbers that I have ever read.

BTW: Cutcaster is a very niche oriented site, I think. My old racing images are exclusive to Cutcaster and are the ONLY thing I have sold there. You might want to give them a try.

oboy · « **Reply #6 on:** January 26, 2010, 14:37 »

Maybe it would be good to see how many votes in total each agency has.

leaf · « **Reply #7 on:** January 26, 2010, 15:42 »

Quote from: oboy on January 26, 2010, 14:37

Maybe it would be good to see how many votes in total each agency has.

if you click on the 'more poll results' on the bottom of the list you can see those numbers.

melastmohican · « **Reply #8 on:** January 26, 2010, 16:03 »

For me it's only sign that economy has not recovered yet if everybody across the board post bad results. Maybe weaker participants in this race to the bottom will start dropping out soon. I think it will get worse before it gets better.

borg · « **Reply #9 on:** January 26, 2010, 17:12 »

Quote from: lisafx on January 26, 2010, 11:38

It's actually sort of comforting. My sales are down pretty much across the board at the moment, and I guess misery loves company...

We are with you Lisa! ;-)

oboy · « **Reply #10 on:** January 26, 2010, 17:15 »

Quote from: leaf on January 26, 2010, 15:42

Quote from: oboy on January 26, 2010, 14:37
Maybe it would be good to see how many votes in total each agency has.

if you click on the 'more poll results' on the bottom of the list you can see those numbers.

Thank you for the tip. Looks like you do take a little into account if there are a small amount of votes for a specific agency

PowerDroid · « **Reply #11 on:** January 26, 2010, 17:18 »

I think we should also keep in mind that the red bars are an indicator of our own performance there and not a sign of how well the sites themselves are doing. I believe the pie is getting bigger while everyone's individual slices are getting smaller due to increased competition.

FD · « **Reply #12 on:** January 26, 2010, 17:25 »

Quote from: lisafx on January 26, 2010, 11:38

It's actually sort of comforting. My sales are down pretty much across the board at the moment, and I guess misery loves company...

+1 - on all sites.
As to the OP: I never fill those in. Too much work, and I hardly make statistics.

leaf · « **Reply #13 on:** January 27, 2010, 01:54 »

Quote from: donding on January 26, 2010, 12:54

I personally don't look at the polls. I've never really noticed an increase or decrease in sales because of the polls.

No, I don't think the polls will affect your sales either, but what they are usefull for is to see if a new up and coming site is actually getting any sales. If they are creeping up in the poll there is a good chance people are seeing results. If a site doesn't have 50 votes, they are are are put below all the site WITH 50 votes. New people to microstock can also easily see which are the big 6 and how the other sites compare to each other. Bigstock DOES have quite a few more sales than say Veer right now, but it is impossible to know that if you are new to the industry unless you have something to quickly tell you like the polls.

People each vote a little differently perhaps, but that doesn't matter so much as they vote the same way each month, that way we can compare the results from site to site and from month to month. I think the sites are all red because people's earnings were down in December compared to November. I could probably explain more how to vote on the voting page though.

donding · « **Reply #14 on:** January 27, 2010, 10:21 »

Quote from: leaf on January 27, 2010, 01:54

Quote from: donding on January 26, 2010, 12:54
I personally don't look at the polls. I've never really noticed an increase or decrease in sales because of the polls.

No, I don't think the polls will affect your sales either, but what they are usefull for is to see if a new up and coming site is actually getting any sales. If they are creeping up in the poll there is a good chance people are seeing results. If a site doesn't have 50 votes, they are are are put below all the site WITH 50 votes. New people to microstock can also easily see which are the big 6 and how the other sites compare to each other. Bigstock DOES have quite a few more sales than say Veer right now, but it is impossible to know that if you are new to the industry unless you have something to quickly tell you like the polls.

People each vote a little differently perhaps, but that doesn't matter so much as they vote the same way each month, that way we can compare the results from site to site and from month to month. I think the sites are all red because people's earnings were down in December compared to November. I could probably explain more how to vote on the voting page though.

I have never voted. Where do you go on the site? Alot of photographers have different styles that work better at different sites...for me BigStockPhoto is by far a better earner that Fotolia. It depends alot on style and content. Thanks Leaf

leaf · « **Reply #15 on:** January 27, 2010, 11:09 »

Quote from: donding on January 27, 2010, 10:21

I have never voted. Where do you go on the site? Alot of photographers have different styles that work better at different sites...for me BigStockPhoto is by far a better earner that Fotolia. It depends alot on style and content. Thanks Leaf

yeah, that is true, and perhaps another reason I think the poll is interesting. I find it quite surprising that 123RF is so high, because for me it is one of my worst. Obviously that is not true for everyone.

To get to the voting area just go to the top and click Polls

cascoly · « **Reply #16 on:** January 27, 2010, 12:37 »

i've wstopped voting since the poll itslef makes little sense - there's not even an explanation of wha we're supposed to be using to vote - so some may list by sales, others by increases this month, etc. some may list in order of sales [SS gets a 9, DT gets a 8, etc, others may give votes based on % [eg,if SS is most of my sales, ss gets a 9 and all others get a 1]

the data is thus thoroughly messed up as it's entered. the bigger problem is then applying those ranking numbers to create a measurement - there's no way to know what the actual numbers mean

steve

WarrenPrice · « **Reply #17 on:** January 28, 2010, 10:47 »

@Leaf, I apoligize for starting a bash the system thread. That was not my intent.

I was fishing to see what others had to say about the rise of Cutcaster. I disagree with those who declare the data invalid. I've seen the same six or seven agencies listed as the big six for more than a year now. I think that fact alone is data validation.

Perhaps the numbers themselves are inconsistent but the results seem pretty solid for agencies listed in the top nine. I was really wondering if that could be said IF Cutcaster slips into ninth place.

I'm sure most people are offering suggestions rather than pounding the poll. I think a lot of what we mean is sometimes lost in the translation as we all attempt to use a common language.
Sorry if I caused any heartburn, Leaf.

cascoly · « **Reply #18 on:** January 28, 2010, 18:32 »

Quote from: WarrenPrice on January 28, 2010, 10:47

@Leaf, I apoligize for starting a bash the system thread. That was not my intent.

I was fishing to see what others had to say about the rise of Cutcaster. I disagree with those who declare the data invalid. I've seen the same six or seven agencies listed as the big six for more than a year now. I think that fact alone is data validation.

Perhaps the numbers themselves are inconsistent but the results seem pretty solid for agencies listed in the top nine. I was really wondering if that could be said IF Cutcaster slips into ninth place.

I'm sure most people are offering suggestions rather than pounding the poll. I think a lot of what we mean is sometimes lost in the translation as we all attempt to use a common language.
Sorry if I caused any heartburn, Leaf.

since your reply follows mine, i guess you were referring at least in part to my comments - first, nothing in my post was bashing the system, just pointing out the statistical problems with a poll of this type. AND i've made suggestions in several other posts for how a better poll could be conducted. criticism is not bashing

as for the fact that the same 6 agencies keep at the top, that does nothing to validate the poll -- it just shows that most people who vote have portfolios with these agencies.

WarrenPrice · « **Reply #19 on:** January 28, 2010, 20:18 »

My reply followed yours, Steve, because you had been the last one to post. I had to put it somewhere. I posted at the time I did because I felt bad that my original post seemed to open the floodgates for criticizing the Microstock Poll Results. That had not been my intention in the original post. As a matter of fact, I think highly of that poll. I'm new to this business but I think that poll may be where the term BIG 6 originated. If we didn't have the poll, where would all those red arrows go?

As for voting, I don't think that is a requirement. I know that my first vote (I think) was last month. Mine may be the vote that jumped Cutcaster into the upper levels. I had just received a payout.

As for the Big Six being there because they are the ones most people use ... Isn't that the whole point of the Poll?

Don't take me so seriously, Steve. My sense of humor is often misinterpreted as ignorance.

Maybe interpreted should replace misinterpreted?

leaf · « **Reply #20 on:** January 29, 2010, 02:33 »

No worries Warren. It is great to have feedback about the site - no matter the tone it comes in. I feel the posts in this thread haven't been harsh or rude though - they are just honest opinions. They are more critique than criticism - but i am happy to take criticism as well.

I have it on the 'to do' list to explain the polls better or give an idea of how to vote. It has been mentioned to me before that it is very confusing the way it is now.

@Cascoly
Yes, i will explain things better in the future so it makes more sense, but the reason i feel the results are still valid, is because even if we all vote different ways the sites will still be ranking from best to worst. Exactly what earnings rating they have doesn't mean so much but who is ahead of who means something.

If I vote the sites giving a 10 for my top earning 9 for number two and 7 for number three and so on, and you vote SS a 10 because you made the most there, then istock a 5 because you only made half as much there etc, and Warren votes the top site a 6 because he isn't happy with his earnings and goes down from there - the thing that stays the same with everyone is their highest earning site will get the highest vote and the votes will go down from there. When you look at the results, the top earning site for people will end up at the top of the poll

cascoly · « **Reply #21 on:** January 29, 2010, 20:39 »

Quote from: WarrenPrice on January 28, 2010, 20:18

Don't take me so seriously, Steve. My sense of humor is often misinterpreted as ignorance.

Maybe interpreted should replace misinterpreted?

no problem - i never take comments personally.

s

cascoly · « **Reply #22 on:** January 29, 2010, 20:47 »

Quote from: leaf on January 29, 2010, 02:33

@Cascoly
Yes, i will explain things better in the future so it makes more sense, but the reason i feel the results are still valid, is because even if we all vote different ways the sites will still be ranking from best to worst. Exactly what earnings rating they have doesn't mean so much but who is ahead of who means something.

ok, but that's precisely my criticism of the poll from a statistical point of view -- yes, the top place is probably the best earner for everyone, but after that you really can't say much -- the problem is the poll is ordinal [asks us to rank], but the results are then represented as numerical [shown as if they were numeric results] -- you can't average everyone's rankings since the numbers are not equivalent.

that said, a true poll of rankings would be difficult to produce, since there are so many other factors that havent been included [nonrandom nature of poll, non normalized data distorts small portfolios, etc etc

]

my suggestion would be to keep the poll , with explanation of how to vote, but not to show the arrows and fractions, since those are at best misleading

steve

ShadySue · « **Reply #23 on:** January 30, 2010, 07:37 »

Quote from: lisafx on January 26, 2010, 11:38

It's actually sort of comforting. My sales are down pretty much across the board at the moment, and I guess misery loves company...

Have you seen http://blog.lookstat.com/category/analytics/? (Third article down - Microstock Photography Stats – Downloads and Earnings per User)

WarrenPrice · « **Reply #24 on:** February 01, 2010, 16:52 »

I should probably let this thread die but ... I just submitted a vote and was unable to include my sales at Photocase.com. Is there a "write-in" option that I must have missed? Should there be one?

thanks

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Author Topic: Significance of Microstock Poll Results (Read 14309 times)

WarrenPrice

lisafx

vonkara

RacePhoto

donding

WarrenPrice

oboy

leaf

melastmohican

borg

oboy

PowerDroid

FD

leaf

donding

leaf

cascoly

WarrenPrice

cascoly

WarrenPrice

leaf

cascoly

cascoly

ShadySue

WarrenPrice

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