Average prices in the pub for 0.5 liters beer are between approx. 4.50 and approx. 5.50 euros.
A glass of wine with 0.2 liters is between approx. 5.50 and 9.00 euros in the restaurant.

You won't find a bottle of Spanish wine for 1 euro here that wouldn't kill you. You can get wine that is drinkable from around 2.50 euros in the supermarket. From around 3 to 3.50 it becomes debatable.

Which is what I wrote. So, a volume of beer equal to a bottle of wine costs about 7.5 euros. But, since a pub won't pour you 0.75 liters of beer, but 1 liter, we also have a price for beer of about 8 euros per glass.
And in Spain and Germany, normal wine costs even less than 8 euros per bottle. And when I was thinking about whether to go to Germany or not, I realized that I didn't want to go to Germany, because I didn't want to pay the same or more for a glass of beer than for wine. That's why I went to Spain, where wine is better, cheaper and there's a lot of it.
I don't understand how you can sell beer for the price of a bottle of sherry? This is such a rip-off of people!
I don't understand why people pay so much money for this beer, it's some kind of herd instinct.
I'll go back to the beginning, in Spain, too, beer prices are very high, and the Spaniards have also fallen under the influence of beer propaganda.

Wilm, you don't need to look at how much wine costs in a restaurant, they pour wine from a bottle that you can buy inexpensively in a store. The difference is that the wine in the bottle is of high quality, and the beer in the bottle on the shelf in the store is much worse in quality than the beer in the pub. That's why I compare the price of high-quality beer with the price of a bottle of wine in the store.

Quote from: trabuco on February 22, 2025, 03:49

.... Can you go to court in the USA? Move here.


Some months ago I went to my doctor. Last year I felt sick. I don't like doctors, I NEVER go there.
He found something in my throat. Thought it was a really bad thing. So, I needed surgery.

Cost of doctor 0.

He scheduled surgery in 2 weeks !!!!! after that day. A long long long wait. In fact I did not have time enough to be afraid.

So I needed hospitalization the day before and then a general anesthesia surgery the day after. In a couple of days after I was at home with my prescriptions.

Cost of hospitalization 0.
Cost of precriptions during hospitalization 0.
Cost of surgery (a dozen people team) 0.
Cost of prescriptions after surgerey: about 15 euros I think.
Cost of biopsy 0.
Cost of doctor afeter surgery 0.

Have to wait 3 weeks for results. Nothing wrong there and I'm fine now. � 3 weeks is a longer time, because in my country when you are well things go slower, really ill people have the TOP priority.
...

definitely the US is behind EU in most social services, esp'ly for health care, education & legal services.

yes, individuals can go to court independently - I did probate when my wife died but it was confusing as i worked thru the various rules - eg had to file a form that let me file a letter to the court that let me apply to become executor to formalize the fact that i was already the sole beneficiary

but for anything more you likely need lawyer - to do a title [proof of property ownership] search recently i paid almost $2K legal fees for < 5 hrs of their work.

...
medical care really varies - even after obama's healthcare improvements we still have tens of millions without insurance. and many red states refused to participate even tho the federal govt paid 90% of costs.

I'm one of the lucky ones - medicare & private insurance do cost me about $450/mo I have an excellent HMO for which I co-pay $15/visit & low amount for major expenses � eg paid only $1000 each for multiple ICU stays billed at $100K each. i've had MRI, CT, x-ray & PET scans over last 2 years with no wait & no cost - long story, but ruled out anything major

 but too many americans have poor or no insurance.

otoh , in Turkey, I received 2nd degree burns on my torso after a bbq fuel bottle blew up, spraying me with flaming gel.   the ambulance, emergency room care and overnight in a private room, specialist follow-up, pain killer & topical treatment cost me $300 even as a foreigner who paid no taxes.  Over the last 50 years, we or US friends raveling with us have also received emergency care in France, Austria, Canada, Bhutan, Nepal and India for nominal costs  (varied from severe cuts to broken legs to heart attack). and the medical care was fast and excellent in all these cases with no complications

The EU is behind the USA in some cases too, some civil righs, some individual protection, some freedom of speech... our states are truly monsters and they can invade our privacy when they want. If they do it, you can do nothing. We spend everything and then we spend more and more. We have too many civil servants and we can't control them in any way because they can't be fired. Are in education, healthcare, administrations... everything. They shoot with King's powder so... We have too many bureaucracy and administrations: my country has 17 parliaments and a big number of laws they make are stupid. Europe is not perfect... we can go broke in a couple of decades. In fact, Eurpe can be a s.

but for anything more you likely need lawyer - to do a title [proof of property ownership] search recently i paid almost $2K legal fees for < 5 hrs of their work.

It's disturbing. Here you can pay about 100 or 150 euros maximun a normal lawyer for that.

I'm one of the lucky ones - medicare & private insurance do cost me about $450/mo I have an excellent HMO for which I co-pay $15/visit & low amount for major expenses � eg paid only $1000 each for multiple ICU stays billed at $100K each. i've had MRI, CT, x-ray & PET scans over last 2 years with no wait & no cost - long story, but ruled out anything major

It's really expensive. Here we read that your insurance companies all are pirates and thieves. The cost is scaring anyway... can't imagine the cost of ICU for my deceased old relatives. If the insurance works should be similar to a public one anyway. Doctors are similar in the USA and in Europe and so are the facilities

Here people have private insurance too, It's cost about 50 euros/motnh and you can have a doctor quickly. In public service if you don't have an emergency sometimes you have to wait a week or two. Our private ones are designed to pay always an small ammount in every step, but a regular working person always can afford it. Last time I used a private one, without insurance, It cost 150 euros each visit, 2 times 300 euros and about 500-600 euros one magnetic resonance. Not too cheap but you can pay it if you are in a hurry. So, a back injury with a herniated disc about 1000 euros. Then you take your testing to your public service and they treat you quickly. The public service also uses the private one, sometimes you can choose where you want to be treated or get an operation, so private hospitals are public too in some way. It's good because you know before who are the best doctors and try to get them.

Turkey is not like European Union. But you can go easily to every EU country and have cheap medical care. We are really strong in this.

Quote from: Wilm on February 22, 2025, 19:41

Average prices in the pub for 0.5 liters beer are between approx. 4.50 and approx. 5.50 euros.
A glass of wine with 0.2 liters is between approx. 5.50 and 9.00 euros in the restaurant.

You won't find a bottle of Spanish wine for 1 euro here that wouldn't kill you. You can get wine that is drinkable from around 2.50 euros in the supermarket. From around 3 to 3.50 it becomes debatable.

Which is what I wrote. So, a volume of beer equal to a bottle of wine costs about 7.5 euros. But, since a pub won't pour you 0.75 liters of beer, but 1 liter, we also have a price for beer of about 8 euros per glass.
And in Spain and Germany, normal wine costs even less than 8 euros per bottle. And when I was thinking about whether to go to Germany or not, I realized that I didn't want to go to Germany, because I didn't want to pay the same or more for a glass of beer than for wine. That's why I went to Spain, where wine is better, cheaper and there's a lot of it.
I don't understand how you can sell beer for the price of a bottle of sherry? This is such a rip-off of people!
I don't understand why people pay so much money for this beer, it's some kind of herd instinct.
I'll go back to the beginning, in Spain, too, beer prices are very high, and the Spaniards have also fallen under the influence of beer propaganda.

Wilm, you don't need to look at how much wine costs in a restaurant, they pour wine from a bottle that you can buy inexpensively in a store. The difference is that the wine in the bottle is of high quality, and the beer in the bottle on the shelf in the store is much worse in quality than the beer in the pub. That's why I compare the price of high-quality beer with the price of a bottle of wine in the store.

An acceptable bottle of wine (0.7 l) costs 3 to 3.5 euros in the discount supermarket.
A 0.5 l can of acceptable Bavarian beer costs 1 euro.
In a restaurant, a good bottle of beer (0.33 l) costs 3 to 3.50 euros. This bottle costs the restaurateur 0.50 euros to buy. A bottle of good wine (0.7 l) starts at 30 euros. This bottle costs the restaurateur 5 euros to buy.
Here, beer is cheaper than wine.

Portugal used to be cheaper than Spain, don't know today, they had problems a few years ago. The have good and cheap wines too. Last time I was in Lisbon I bought tons of coffee (very impressive) and a lot of bottles of Port wine (I had my car). I went to a huge mall, then a Carrefour and ask the staff there. And buyed some in downtown too. Portuguese people are really nice and they always gave me a good advice for buying.

I have read that Lisbon is ruined by tourism now. I was lucky some years ago, was a great trip driving the country.

C'mon! 1 euro a bottle of wine in Europe? Maybe it's an american one relabeled.

Well, that was a long time ago, about 10 years ago. Maybe now this wine costs 2 euros. I bought it in supermarkets in Madrid. I also bought 1 or 1.5 liters of wine in cardboard boxes for 1.5 euros. Normal wine, only young, you need to drink it carefully.

Advice for tourists in Spain:
1. Never ask for "sangria". We never drink that s. It's the worst wine, the worst fruit and the worst alcohol. The next day you'll be dead.

Don't scare people, Sangria is a great drink, I drank it in many cafes and bought it in bottles in stores. Drank a lot. Didn't die, no problems.
Of course, Sangria is not better than good wine, but as a light drink it is a normal option.

2. Tap beer is always cheap and good.

How much does 1 liter cost in a pub?

As for wines, I like all Spanish wines, but I like sherry and muscatel the most. In Spain it is not so easy to buy the wine you want, you need to go only to the region where this wine is produced. So in the city of Jerez you can buy a lot of sherry.

E. g. Bavarian Hefeweizen beer matures in the bottle and tastes better due to the yeast base from the bottle.
There are also very fresh bottled beers (e.g. Schumacher Alt) that only keep for a few weeks.

How much does this beer cost in the store (Hefeweizen and Schumacher Alt)?

So there is absolutely nothing wrong with bottled beer.

If the beer is not exposed to sunlight, if the beer has not been given a preservative for long shelf life, if the beer has not been pasteurized. See how many "ifs" there are.

Not to mention that beer should be kept at a cold temperature. What temperature is it on the shelves in stores? Of course, I admit that some stores store beer in refrigerators and this beer is also delivered to them in refrigerators. But you probably know all this better than me.

Quote from: SimonSays on February 23, 2025, 11:57

Quote from: stoker2014 on February 23, 2025, 10:44

As for wines, I like all Spanish wines, but I like sherry and muscatel the most.

I always took you for a male but I was obviously misstaken since you like sherry which is a womans drink, as is muscatel, a very sweet drink.
My bad 

Sherry is rarely sweet, mostly it is not sweet. I do not like sweet sherry. You know very little about sherry and what kinds there are.
As for Muscatel, I also like semi-sweet wines and dessert wines.
And what, do you think men do not drink semi-sweet and dessert wines?
 

I also like whiskey, cognac, vodka, beer.

Not really. Men drink dry wine, women sweet for the most part, but women also drink dry wine. I rarely see a man drinking sweet wine unless offcourse he is ....

Quote from: SimonSays on February 23, 2025, 12:04

Quote from: stoker2014 on February 23, 2025, 12:00

Quote from: SimonSays on February 23, 2025, 11:57

Quote from: stoker2014 on February 23, 2025, 10:44

As for wines, I like all Spanish wines, but I like sherry and muscatel the most.

I always took you for a male but I was obviously misstaken since you like sherry which is a womans drink, as is muscatel, a very sweet drink.
My bad 

Sherry is rarely sweet, mostly it is not sweet. I do not like sweet sherry. You know very little about sherry and what kinds there are.
As for Muscatel, I also like semi-sweet wines and dessert wines.
And what, do you think men do not drink semi-sweet and dessert wines?
 

I also like whiskey, cognac, vodka, beer.

Not really. Men drink dry wine, women sweet for the most part, but women also drink dry wine. I rarely see a man drinking sweet wine unless offcourse he is ....

gay? 
You have some stereotypes. Of the sweet wines, I only like Muscatel. But not any Muscatel, only quality Muscatel. If I have sherry (not sweet) and Muscatel in front of me, I will give preference to the sherry. But after the sherry, the next day, I will drink Muscatel.
No, I am not gay. I like dry wines less than semi-dry ones. I like semi-sweet wines more than dry or semi-dry ones.

Good muscatel is a very tasty wine.

Well, if you say so.
And there is nothing wrong with being gay. Everybody hers or his liking.

Quote from: RalfLiebhold on February 23, 2025, 11:16

So there is absolutely nothing wrong with bottled beer.

If the beer is not exposed to sunlight, if the beer has not been given a preservative for long shelf life, if the beer has not been pasteurized. See how many "ifs" there are.

Not to mention that beer should be kept at a cold temperature. What temperature is it on the shelves in stores? Of course, I admit that some stores store beer in refrigerators and this beer is also delivered to them in refrigerators. But you probably know all this better than me.

I don't quite understand the point of this conversation.
The problem with the light is solved with brown and green bottles.
Beer does not need to be stored cold or pasteurized. The shelf life is explained by the slightly acidic pH value and the alcohol content.
And yes, I obviously have more knowledge here.

And yes, I obviously have more knowledge here.

This is quite logical. I would be very surprised if Germans didn't know anything about beer. I described the Ukrainian reality, and I am glad that you were able to object. In Ukraine, bottled beer is much worse in quality than the beer that is poured directly in the breweries. Although many breweries in Ukraine brew very bad beer. At best, I go to only one brewery in the whole city, and I can drink only 1, maximum 2 types of beer there, everything else is urine.

But you didn't answer the question I asked above about the cost of bottled beer.

.... I described the Ukrainian reality, ....

.... and you should leave it at that.

Quote from: cascoly on February 22, 2025, 23:38

Quote from: stoker2014 on February 22, 2025, 17:11

...

I bought a bottle of wine in Spain for 1 euro. The wine was natural, I liked it.

that says it all!

This only says that I, unlike you, have been to Spain and know about wine.....

ROFLMAO!!!   you continue to make totally ignorant assumptions about me! not that i matters, but i've been to Spain multiple times (4 times in last 5 years), as well as every country in Europe except for Poland, Sweden, Slovenia & Ukraine (but i'll get to all of them eventually ) - microstock underwrites much of my travel.

as far as wine ? that's another of the silliest statements you've made