Author Topic: Strategies for Free Usage Requests? (Read 13774 times)

etudiante_rapide · « **Reply #25 on:** May 12, 2015, 12:05 »

Quote from: rimglow on May 12, 2015, 10:33

Quote from: etudiante_rapide on May 12, 2015, 10:13
if you give yourself away for free. you become like the class-slut who gives herself away free".

I object to the word slut. it reeks of Misogyny. In this day and age, women are just as free to express their sexuality as men.

even in this day and age, a ~~slut~~ by any other name won't smell any sweeter

women today still use that word to describe such a girl/woman who gives herself away free.

Hobostocker · « **Reply #26 on:** May 12, 2015, 12:50 »

Quote from: etudiante_rapide on May 12, 2015, 12:05

Quote from: rimglow on May 12, 2015, 10:33
Quote from: etudiante_rapide on May 12, 2015, 10:13
if you give yourself away for free. you become like the class-slut who gives herself away free".

I object to the word slut. it reeks of Misogyny. In this day and age, women are just as free to express their sexuality as men.

even in this day and age, a ~~slut~~ by any other name won't smell any sweeter
women today still use that word to describe such a girl/woman who gives herself away free.

maybe it's me but i keep hearing the word Slut a lot more often from girls rather than men.

PixelBytes · « **Reply #27 on:** May 12, 2015, 13:00 »

Quote from: etudiante_rapide on May 12, 2015, 12:05

Quote from: rimglow on May 12, 2015, 10:33
Quote from: etudiante_rapide on May 12, 2015, 10:13
if you give yourself away for free. you become like the class-slut who gives herself away free".

I object to the word slut. it reeks of Misogyny. In this day and age, women are just as free to express their sexuality as men.

even in this day and age, a ~~slut~~ by any other name won't smell any sweeter
women today still use that word to describe such a girl/woman who gives herself away free.

Are you suggesting you prefer women who charge money?

Back on topic, I think Paulies method of trying to turn a freebie request into a sale is best. I generally thank them for their interest in my work, explain this is my job and the way I support my family, and then send them a link to the same image on my own website. Only rarely I ever hear back from them and even rarer I get a sale, but at least I didn't give it away.

I also did charity work for years. At first they were very grateful, and sometimes gave me gift cards or thank you cards. But after a few years, they were too demanding. They demanded I work on their schedule, do reshoots, complain if the images didn't get processed and to them fast enough, and NEVER anymore thanks. I just recently told them I hated doing the work and was done. They were so surprised! 'But we are a charity!' BAH.

sgoodwin4813 · « **Reply #28 on:** May 12, 2015, 14:26 »

When I was an undergrad I played in a brass quintet. It was fun and good experience but we were mostly doing it to make some extra money. We occasionally played a free concert for promotion but mainly did weddings and churches. When anyone asked, we repeated the same mantra, "no pay, no play". Some of the church people got kind of upset and thought we should play for free, but we told them sorry, we would only do it for money. Our prices were very reasonable so they usually hired us. We never did do a free gig while I was a member. I'm not about to start now!

Hobostocker · « **Reply #29 on:** May 12, 2015, 15:18 »

Quote from: PixelBytes on May 12, 2015, 13:00

They were so surprised! 'But we are a charity!' BAH.

that's why the big NGOs only hire professionals, look at the job posting for UN, Unesco, ILO, WHO, USAID, Care Internaltional, WorldVision ... sometimes they even seek people with two degrees and a master or PhD ! they're true multinationals and even the few volunteer positions are given to people with a strong background and/or experience in the field.

the only charities paying nothing are the fly by night NGOs doing the "dirty job" that the big ones refuse to mess with, so they end up in these so called "umbrella orgs" etc etc ... most of them being a total scam from top to bottom.

all i can say is stay away from these crooks.

ShadySue · « **Reply #30 on:** May 12, 2015, 17:25 »

Quote from: Hobostocker on May 12, 2015, 15:18

the only charities paying nothing are the fly by night NGOs doing the "dirty job" that the big ones refuse to mess with, so they end up in these so called "umbrella orgs" etc etc ... most of them being a total scam from top to bottom.

So not true. I've worked with small charities and causes who are funded entirely by their volunteers, who also give up hours to put in the necessary work. And bake, design posters and turn up for coffee mornings.
Also I've been offered expenses by bigger charities, but I think, "who needs this money more, (e.g.) someone who needs an overnight cancer nurse, or me?" (Disclaimer: no-one else is financially dependent on me.)

PixelBytes · « **Reply #31 on:** May 12, 2015, 22:47 »

Quote from: Hobostocker on May 12, 2015, 15:18

Quote from: PixelBytes on May 12, 2015, 13:00
They were so surprised! 'But we are a charity!' BAH.

that's why the big NGOs only hire professionals, look at the job posting for UN, Unesco, ILO, WHO, USAID, Care Internaltional, WorldVision ... sometimes they even seek people with two degrees and a master or PhD ! they're true multinationals and even the few volunteer positions are given to people with a strong background and/or experience in the field.

the only charities paying nothing are the fly by night NGOs doing the "dirty job" that the big ones refuse to mess with, so they end up in these so called "umbrella orgs" etc etc ... most of them being a total scam from top to bottom.

all i can say is stay away from these crooks.

The charity I was doing work for was a small local charity. They didn't have the money to hire. My problem became when as time passed they became more and more demanding and seemed to forget I am donating my time just like other volunteers. If you want people to volunteer, you at least need to treat them with respect, and also not overburden them to the point they can hardly have time for their paid work.

Hobostocker · « **Reply #32 on:** May 13, 2015, 04:47 »

Quote from: ShadySue on May 12, 2015, 17:25

So not true. I've worked with small charities and causes who are funded entirely by their volunteers, who also give up hours to put in the necessary work. And bake, design posters and turn up for coffee mornings.
Also I've been offered expenses by bigger charities, but I think, "who needs this money more, (e.g.) someone who needs an overnight cancer nurse, or me?" (Disclaimer: no-one else is financially dependent on me.)

it's all a give and take, if volunteering makes you happy there's nothing wrong with it.

problem is, while this might be the situation for some small NGOs in the West it's not the reality in the third world where the crooks leading the NGOs are making 6 figures while their volunteers are treated like sh-it or they even pay 1000s of dollars to go there ("voluntourism" !!) ...

it's just too easy for a non-profit to turn into a very profitable business, too many temptations and too many gullible volunteers willing to fly overseas to "save the world" ... i really hope the Orgs you joined were a decent place and i could also recommend the Red Cross if that matters but they're all kept in their place because in the West there's still some justice and many laws to follow, anywhere else it's totally Wild West .. i can't imagine the billions pouring in the pockets of the NGO who are now asking left and right for money to save Kathmandu and Nepal .. especialy considering the level of corruption in Nepal and all the sh-it i've seen there done by the NGOs years ago.

Hobostocker · « **Reply #33 on:** May 13, 2015, 04:54 »

Quote from: PixelBytes on May 12, 2015, 22:47

My problem became when as time passed they became more and more demanding and seemed to forget I am donating my time just like other volunteers. If you want people to volunteer, you at least need to treat them with respect, and also not overburden them to the point they can hardly have time for their paid work.

they won't give any respect as volunteers are taken for granted and if they complain they will receive a motivational speech to get back to work ... typically about the concept of saving the world, of giving something (time, money, dedication), blah blah blah .. moral of the story you give them something and they give you nothing back and if you don't like it you'll be told you're an egoist greedy individualistic blah blah blah and that it's because of people like you that this world cannot be changed etc etc ..

ShadySue · « **Reply #34 on:** May 13, 2015, 05:50 »

Quote from: PixelBytes on May 12, 2015, 22:47

The charity I was doing work for was a small local charity. They didn't have the money to hire. My problem became when as time passed they became more and more demanding and seemed to forget I am donating my time just like other volunteers. If you want people to volunteer, you at least need to treat them with respect, and also not overburden them to the point they can hardly have time for their paid work.

I agree totally. I've been pretty lucky with those I've chosen to be involved with. For example, the charity I'm a volunteer photographer with advertised and took on three vol. togs. at the same time, and there isn't a vast amount of work needing done each year between the three of us. They seem to be really mindful of volunteer's time. For example, I also signed up additionally to do can rattling and this year they sent out the dates and I had quite a few I was free on, and they were really nearby, so I sent in all my dates, and I was allocated only 3 x 2hr stints (they do a lot of recruiting to make sure no-one gets overburdened). But that is a big and very well-known charity.

Sometimes, people are just inconsiderate, like you experienced.

Sometimes, the existing volunteers are 100% committed (maybe retired/no family etc) and give phenomenal amounts of time and effort, forgetting that others may still need to make a living, or have other commitments for their time and energy.

Mantis · « **Reply #35 on:** May 13, 2015, 08:08 »

I used to write for diving magazines and make pretty good money, more if I got a main story and more depending on whether they used my photos. Not too long ago I got $900 for one time use full page (not cover).

That being said those days are gone for me. I get emails now and then (just got one recently from a non-profit) asking for me to support the "endangered this and endangered that" by donating certain images. I respond like Paulie that I am non profit and small business and have overhead.

One of the VERY frustrating things is I recently saw a two-page spread using one of my images in a dive magazine called Dive Training. No credits, nothing. They made it look like the the author shot that image, so I contacted them to politely ask where they got the image and why they don't put in credits. No response. I escalated it, no response. I used my contacts and no response. I threatened to get an attorney involved and not only no response but clears my posts on their FB page. So I think I hit a nerve and exposed what they always do....put images that aren't the authors under the authors name and not credit them. While this isn't illegal if they purchased the image properly, it is shady.

The moral of that story is that they probably purchased the image from SS or somewhere where I made peanuts in comparison to the $900. No more requests, they just pay $1 and they have my image.

ShadySue · « **Reply #36 on:** May 13, 2015, 08:36 »

^^^
iStock requires (or did, I haven't looked today!) that editorial uses (not just ediotiral images) are accredited author/istockphoto, but I've found that at least half of my editorial in-uses are not credited.
Always makes me wonder how many other site conditions (e.g. ELs, not 'stock-piling') are just being ignored.

It's certainly even worse if they are implying that someone else made the images.

(I once had a couple of my iStock pics on a website marked 'copyright website', i.e. theirs, not even iStock. Some other pics there were credited to various people 'copyright XX, CreativeCommons) I did take that up with iStock's CR/CE, and a while later, noticed that my images were removed from the site. You don't really get detailled feedback from CE, so I never knew whether the images had been 'lifted' from a legitimate buyer's site, or if they just decided they weren't going to credit pics they had paid for.

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #37 on:** May 13, 2015, 09:39 »

I recently had a non-profit company contact me for free usage. The email was very entitled like "love your work (always starts that way), we're a non-profit, internal use, need high-res image immediately", etc. I sent them a polite response with just a link to istock for the measly few dollars. They responded back offended in big text "Sorry, I think you misunderstood, this link is to make a purchase???". I looked the company up and checked out the financial report. A half billion dollars in revenue. And they won't pay a few dollars for an image. After going back and forth a couple times they offered credit, exposure, and potential work in the future. No thanks. Not my kind of client. So I guess they get all of their office furniture, corporate office lease, computers, business supplies, internet service, and everything else for free. And they must not pay their employees. The person that called me must spend 40 hours per week working for free.

I also love the entitled "personal use" people. "No wait, it's not commercial use, just personal use so why would I pay for that? I just want to [use it to make a print, have it as computer wallpaper, use it make wedding invitations, etc]". Oh I see, it's for personal use. Why didn't you say so? I can go to Apple or Amazon when I need to download a song and just tell them it's for personal use and I get it for free right? Gas stations give free gas if it's for personal use. Camera companies don't charge for equipment if it's for personal use. Here I'll tell you what. I'll do the same thing Amazon and Apple do when they let you listen to a station for free. I will let you see the image for free. Just go to my website and you can look at it as long as you want. In fact , you can look at all of the images as often as you want. No charge.

Shelma1 · « **Reply #38 on:** May 13, 2015, 09:58 »

I've worked for too many non-profits (I was well paid) and have seen the high salaries, the beautiful homes the marketing people live in, the all-expenses-paid trips to tropical locales for conferences, etc., to ever give my work to any of them for free. Believe me, they have big marketing budgets and pay for photography and illustration all the time. Don't be a sucker.

DallasP · « **Reply #39 on:** May 13, 2015, 14:40 »

It's funny because I was just thinking about this topic last night.

So, last week I did softball posters for the local chamber, they're doing a charity. The proceeds go to support the shop with a cop program. I cut them a deal and charged $70 for the poster and a single color graphic for shirts (for some reason, softball tournaments do really well here ... I found out today that they ended up with 8 teams, at $250 bucks a peice my measly $70 seems pretty miniscule)

In November the city hosts a "homeshow" (basically showing off people's decorated homes) and collected like $15 per ticket or something, the proceeds go to support that same program, as well as some other charitable bs. I spent like twice as much time designing the signs for the stupid "homeshow" and charged them nothing. The logic ...

That said, I do frequently use free image sources as well for my blog, designs and whatever but, when needed haven't been afraid to pay for imagery (especially when that means handing the bill down the line). I would think that most businesses/non-profits would understand that this is our business and while sometimes you can get/give a deal ... it shouldn't be expected.

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #40 on:** May 13, 2015, 15:48 »

This wasn't a charity. It was a big business non-profit. I do review charities that contact me and will send them prints for auctions. Some prints have sold for good amounts and I like to do that type of stuff. But it seems like some non-profits like to communicate like non-profit equals charity which is deceptive. There are plenty of non-profit associations that are massive influential businesses and have nothing to do with charity.

ShadySue · « **Reply #41 on:** May 13, 2015, 16:21 »

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on May 13, 2015, 15:48

This wasn't a charity. It was a big business non-profit. ...

Thanks for that.
Every time this topic comes up, I'm left wondering if 'non-profit' is what the US calls a charity (they're different here/UK). Comments in threads seem to use the terms interchangeably.
Clearly they are also different in the US.

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #42 on:** May 13, 2015, 17:37 »

Quote from: ShadySue on May 13, 2015, 16:21

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on May 13, 2015, 15:48
This wasn't a charity. It was a big business non-profit. ...
Thanks for that.
Every time this topic comes up, I'm left wondering if 'non-profit' is what the US calls a charity (they're different here/UK). Comments in threads seem to use the terms interchangeably.
Clearly they are also different in the US.

In the US we tend to blur the lines between nonprofit and charity but they clearly have different purposes. Charities who have approached me normally identify themselves as a charitable organization who are contacting me for a specific fund-raising activity such as an auction to raise money for pediatric cancer care. I usually will send something to them as a donation. Non-profits have only contacted me to ask for something free and tout the "oh-woah-is-me we're a non-profit" like that automatically means "we don't make any money and can't pay you so give us free stuff" which isn't the case. I've worked with non-profits in other business dealings and they normally have plenty of budget if you don't let them take advantage of you.

ShadySue · « **Reply #43 on:** May 13, 2015, 17:57 »

^^ Thanks for the amplification.
The two are pretty much demarcated here, as charities have to be registered and approved and are pretty strictly regulated: one of the qualifications being how much of the income received actually goes to the cause rather than staff expenses, fundraising/education etc. Generally any expenditure, no matter how small, is picked over in detail at the annual meeting, with questions being raised about whether it could have been got cheaper or free. It's true that with the bigger charities, some staff are well paid, but they normally have very specialist jobs, like legal or lobbying parliament / hobnobbing with royalty or stuff like that. Even at that, I've seen volunteer vacancies for part time legal consultants, electricians, builders, secretarial help etc etc. It's definitely not just creatives.

Hobostocker · « **Reply #44 on:** May 14, 2015, 05:20 »

Quote from: Shelma1 on May 13, 2015, 09:58

the high salaries, the beautiful homes the marketing people live in, the all-expenses-paid trips to tropical locales for conferences, etc., to ever give my work to any of them for free. Believe me, they have big marketing budgets and pay for photography and illustration all the time. Don't be a sucker.

EXACTLY the same i've seen so far.

Shelma1 · « **Reply #45 on:** May 14, 2015, 06:12 »

A response to request from one photographer, with the classic video "pay the writer:"

http://tomasvh.com/response-to-requests-for-free-use-of-photography/

60D · « **Reply #46 on:** May 15, 2015, 06:07 »

Be Careful When a Big Brand Asks for Your Photo

http://petapixel.com/2015/05/14/be-careful-when-a-big-brand-asks-for-your-photo/

ShadySue · « **Reply #47 on:** May 15, 2015, 06:14 »

Quote from: 60D on May 15, 2015, 06:07

Be Careful When a Big Brand Asks for Your Photo

http://petapixel.com/2015/05/14/be-careful-when-a-big-brand-asks-for-your-photo/

So MillerLite wanted use the image on a television commercial but didn't ask for releases?
H*ll, as you say: "Be careful".
I wouldn't even consider giving a 'big brand' a pic to use on their fan page/whatever.

Fudio · « **Reply #48 on:** May 15, 2015, 06:18 »

Quote from: 60D on May 15, 2015, 06:07

Be Careful When a Big Brand Asks for Your Photo

http://petapixel.com/2015/05/14/be-careful-when-a-big-brand-asks-for-your-photo/

Totally understandable. A fledgling company like SABMiller can hardly be expected to pay for promotional material.

Hobostocker · « **Reply #49 on:** May 16, 2015, 02:37 »

Quote from: Fudio on May 15, 2015, 06:18

Quote from: 60D on May 15, 2015, 06:07
Be Careful When a Big Brand Asks for Your Photo

http://petapixel.com/2015/05/14/be-careful-when-a-big-brand-asks-for-your-photo/

Totally understandable. A fledgling company like SABMiller can hardly be expected to pay for promotional material.

well, a marketer would tell you to "jump on this opportunity" .. and to contact other big clients with SABmiller in your portfolio ... problem is, marketers tend to be out of touch with reality and clients won't maybe give a sh-it about your CV anyway as they tend to hire creatives just because they've been recommended by other insiders in the industry, in short there's zero guarantee that a CV filled with big famous brands translates in future assignment opportunities.

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Author Topic: Strategies for Free Usage Requests? (Read 13774 times)

etudiante_rapide

Hobostocker

PixelBytes

sgoodwin4813

Hobostocker

ShadySue

PixelBytes

Hobostocker

Hobostocker

ShadySue

Mantis

ShadySue

PaulieWalnuts

Shelma1

DallasP

PaulieWalnuts

ShadySue

PaulieWalnuts

ShadySue

Hobostocker

Shelma1

60D

ShadySue

Fudio

Hobostocker

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