Author Topic: That time of the month - Percentages for July (Read 31559 times)

alias · « **Reply #25 on:** August 02, 2010, 14:13 »

Quote from: sharpshot on August 02, 2010, 13:57

it is so hard to tell if it is just seasonal and a bad best match change or if the buyers are leaving because of the higher prices. I am amazed they have made so many changes to what was the market leader, are they killing the golden goose?

I have tried to explain why some people are reporting lower sales. I believe it is about IS growing much faster than the portfolios. Would you disagree ?

sharpshot · « **Reply #26 on:** August 02, 2010, 14:18 »

Quote from: alias on August 02, 2010, 14:13

Quote from: sharpshot on August 02, 2010, 13:57
it is so hard to tell if it is just seasonal and a bad best match change or if the buyers are leaving because of the higher prices. I am amazed they have made so many changes to what was the market leader, are they killing the golden goose?

I have tried to explain why some people are reporting lower sales. I believe it is about IS growing much faster than the portfolios. Would you disagree ?

Yes, because this hasn't happened as much with the strong growth in uploads in previous years, why now? Also only a small percentage of images on any site make a significant amount of money and new contributors have found it hard with istock.

sharpshot · « **Reply #27 on:** August 02, 2010, 14:19 »

Quote from: nruboc on August 02, 2010, 14:10

Quote from: sharpshot on August 02, 2010, 13:57
I think I will skip adding up my earnings for July and do it at the end of August. I had a spectacular month in July 09 and I know this one is well down. Istock is down and it is so hard to tell if it is just seasonal and a bad best match change or if the buyers are leaving because of the higher prices. I am amazed they have made so many changes to what was the market leader, are they killing the golden goose?

Getty will be happy to kill the golden goose and bring their customers over to ThinkStock, where they can mix in their wholly owned content which has a pay out of 0, while at the same time paying exclusives significantly less. So far they've even maintained a handle on exclusive's frustration by upping the prices to account for the obvious migration of customers, mission accomplished.

I'm not sure about that theory because I don't think they will make more money from thinkstock than istock. I just think there have been a lot of bad decisions made in the last few years and they need to change that quick or they might not have the microstock market domination they could easily of had.

cthoman · « **Reply #28 on:** August 02, 2010, 14:34 »

Yeah, it was a pretty awful month at IS and SS has been fairly static or slow growth all year. It's a shame because everyone underneath seems to have somewhat steady growth, but my big two are kind of lagging and killing my overall earnings.

I have trouble pushing the panic button yet because the summer can occasionally be pretty grim. And as my portfolio gets larger, it is prone to bigger fluctuations. If things look like this in September and October, then I'll have to start with the conspiracy theories.

alias · « **Reply #29 on:** August 02, 2010, 14:42 »

Quote from: sharpshot on August 02, 2010, 14:18

this hasn't happened as much with the strong growth in uploads in previous years, why now?

Tipping point. Rate of increase is very sharp now.

Quote from: sharpshot on August 02, 2010, 14:18

Also only a small percentage of images on any site make a significant amount of money and new contributors have found it hard with istock.

Beyond a certain point many small medium portfolios > than fewer large portfolios. Millions and millions of images selling 1 or 2 maybe becomes significant. Everyone has at least 1 great file.

gostwyck · « **Reply #30 on:** August 02, 2010, 15:39 »

Quote from: nruboc on August 02, 2010, 14:10

Getty will be happy to kill the golden goose and bring their customers over to ThinkStock, where they can mix in their wholly owned content which has a pay out of 0, while at the same time paying exclusives significantly less. So far they've even maintained a handle on exclusive's frustration by upping the prices to account for the obvious migration of customers, mission accomplished.

What utter nonsense. You think it would be sensible to kill a business with about $200M annual sales which is expanding and highly profitable ... in favour of a start-up, almost certainly with less than 5% of the sales of the former? Even if TS were to be as successful as SS (which it never get close to) the profits would still be a fraction of those at IS. If Getty (aka H&F) wanted to get rid of IS they could probably sell it on for well over $1B. TS is a joke in comparison, even with their dated wholly-owned content which nobody actually wants.

etienjones · « **Reply #31 on:** August 02, 2010, 16:07 »

And many businesses are keeping cash fearing a double dip recession. They are not hiring, they are not spending, they are waiting to see if the economy is really going to grow and at what rate in the near future.

So:

nervous recession (recovery) + summer time + more contributors + bloated collections = slow until happy times are here again

nruboc · « **Reply #32 on:** August 02, 2010, 16:32 »

Quote from: gostwyck on August 02, 2010, 15:39

Quote from: nruboc on August 02, 2010, 14:10
Getty will be happy to kill the golden goose and bring their customers over to ThinkStock, where they can mix in their wholly owned content which has a pay out of 0, while at the same time paying exclusives significantly less. So far they've even maintained a handle on exclusive's frustration by upping the prices to account for the obvious migration of customers, mission accomplished.

What utter nonsense. You think it would be sensible to kill a business with about $200M annual sales which is expanding and highly profitable ... in favour of a start-up, almost certainly with less than 5% of the sales of the former? Even if TS were to be as successful as SS (which it never get close to) the profits would still be a fraction of those at IS. If Getty (aka H&F) wanted to get rid of IS they could probably sell it on for well over $1B. TS is a joke in comparison, even with their dated wholly-owned content which nobody actually wants.

Do you have any sense of reading comprehension? Obviously my post was referring to a migration of IStock customers to TS. Not killing off of IStock and going with TS tomorrow. Are you telling me that Getty wouldn't love to move all of it's customers to TS business model? Pay a flat 20%, and mix in their wholly owned content and pay 0. What utter nonsense.ThinkStock is barely off the ground, give it time.

Artemis · « **Reply #33 on:** August 02, 2010, 16:32 »

Quote from: alias on August 02, 2010, 14:42

Quote from: sharpshot on August 02, 2010, 14:18
this hasn't happened as much with the strong growth in uploads in previous years, why now?

Tipping point. Rate of increase is very sharp now.

I'm not buying it. If it was the competition among contributors the decline would not be so sharp, sales really fell of a cliff. TS was announced and launched in march, after march for most of us sales on istock have been going down and down, add some summerslump and it makes sense. Strange if it is the economic recession it only seems to hit hard on istock and far less on for example SS. i wholeheartedly hope sales on istock will pick up again in september, but i'm pretty pessimistic.

lisafx · « **Reply #34 on:** August 02, 2010, 16:43 »

Quote from: Artemis on August 02, 2010, 16:32

I'm not buying it. If it was the competition among contributors the decline would not be so sharp, sales really fell of a cliff. TS was announced and launched in march, after march for most of us sales on istock have been going down and down, add some summerslump and it makes sense. Strange if it is the economic recession it only seems to hit hard on istock and far less on for example SS. i wholeheartedly hope sales on istock will pick up again in september, but i'm pretty pessimistic.

I am open to all theories, but I tend to agree with you Artemis. The timing seems more than just coincidental. And the drop has been extreme, as you say, rather than gradual.

I understand the point Alias is making about the preference for new files on SS skewing comparisons, but that doesn't explain why FT (like SS) is also making such a good showing. I don't believe their search engine favors new images, nor are they mainly a subscription site. Yet independents seem to be reporting that FT is either increasing or staying level while Istock sales are plummeting.

Something is definitely up at IS. Not sure what it is, but the other big sites don't seem to be particularly affected.

cthoman · « **Reply #35 on:** August 02, 2010, 17:21 »

I can't say I've seen a pattern between lower IS earnings and TS opening in my numbers. My April was amazing at IS and May & March were good. It's only been June and July at IS that have been low. SS has been low as well those two months, so I'm thinking more of a slump. It could be more, but so many things have changed in the last year at IS. I can't see how anyone could pin an explanation on any one particular cause.

alias · « **Reply #36 on:** August 02, 2010, 17:24 »

Maybe FT has more potential for growth where it is so far Lisafx.

My opinion is not definitive. Perhaps what I have said is some of the story.

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #37 on:** August 02, 2010, 17:25 »

One more possibility.

The "Great Recession" here in the US started sometime in 2007. Not sure about other parts of the world. My earnings have been strong up until May 2010 when they starting taking a major dip. This also seems to be around the time everybody else has been talking about a major drop.

I always wondered why micro seemed somewhat immune to the economy. Maybe micro is now finally feeling the effects.

Macro buyers with less budget move to micro. Micro buyers with less budget move to the unemployment line. The cycle continues repeating even after the macro buyers dry up. New buyer growth plateaus while the image collections continue to grow.

Norebbo · « **Reply #38 on:** August 02, 2010, 17:32 »

Quote from: etienjones on August 02, 2010, 16:07

So:

nervous recession (recovery) + summer time + more contributors + bloated collections = slow until happy times are here again

Call me pessimistic, but the part highlighted in bold gives me reason to believe that the good times may never return. For the individual contributor, microstock has already peaked. The agencies, however, are laughing all the way to the bank.

gostwyck · « **Reply #39 on:** August 02, 2010, 17:42 »

Quote from: nruboc on August 02, 2010, 16:32

Do you have any sense of reading comprehension? Obviously my post was referring to a migration of IStock customers to TS. Not killing off of IStock and going with TS tomorrow. Are you telling me that Getty wouldn't love to move all of it's customers to TS business model? Pay a flat 20%, and mix in their wholly owned content and pay 0. What utter nonsense.ThinkStock is barely off the ground, give it time.

So when you use the expression "Getty will be happy to kill the golden goose ..." you mean they don't want to kill Istock. Thank you __ that's much clearer now.

TS hasn't got a snowball's chance in hell of making any real impact in today's marketplace without the full support of contributors and an extraordinary investment in hard cash from Getty. Trouble is the more they promote it the more they stand to lose out on their highly-profitable Istock business.

Istock generates roughly the same amount of cash and profit as all the other agencies combined __ and they're the only significant agency that doesn't have a subscription option in any meaningful way. Ergo ... subscription models are less profitable than ppd.

nruboc · « **Reply #40 on:** August 02, 2010, 18:50 »

Quote from: gostwyck on August 02, 2010, 17:42

Quote from: nruboc on August 02, 2010, 16:32
Do you have any sense of reading comprehension? Obviously my post was referring to a migration of IStock customers to TS. Not killing off of IStock and going with TS tomorrow. Are you telling me that Getty wouldn't love to move all of it's customers to TS business model? Pay a flat 20%, and mix in their wholly owned content and pay 0. What utter nonsense.ThinkStock is barely off the ground, give it time.

So when you use the expression "Getty will be happy to kill the golden goose ..." you mean they don't want to kill Istock. Thank you __ that's much clearer now.

TS hasn't got a snowball's chance in hell of making any real impact in today's marketplace without the full support of contributors and an extraordinary investment in hard cash from Getty. Trouble is the more they promote it the more they stand to lose out on their highly-profitable Istock business.

Istock generates roughly the same amount of cash and profit as all the other agencies combined __ and they're the only significant agency that doesn't have a subscription option in any meaningful way. Ergo ... subscription models are less profitable than ppd.

You fail to answer my question genius, I will repeat it again, for you, try to follow along. Are you telling me that Getty wouldn't love to move all of it's customers to TS business model? Pay a flat 20%, and mix in their wholly owned content and pay 0. You do realize that TS also has PPD, or ummm Image Packs, no?

"Trouble is the more they promote it the more they stand to lose out on their highly-profitable Istock business." Yeah that makes sense, except they are promoting it like crazy, maybe they know something you don't...hmmm

Suljo · « **Reply #41 on:** August 02, 2010, 20:39 »

2 months before dropping is about 10%, last mont it will be the same but somehow Veer pump up results on - few %. Anyhow second month in droppings, bed, bed, bed........
Grrrrrrrrrrr

click_click · « **Reply #42 on:** August 02, 2010, 21:37 »

Quote from: lisafx on August 02, 2010, 16:43

... Something is definitely up at IS. Not sure what it is, but the other big sites don't seem to be particularly affected.

Here is the answer: http://www.microstockgroup.com/istockphoto-com/new-istockphoto-web-design-coming-up/

I'm sure they already started screwing around behind the scenes. Not to mention all the problems they had before the re-design was even announced...

I'm particularly concerned about the development in the footage department and the big release of the new video processor which immediately took a dump right after the release. I do feel for the Jim in the footage department as somewhere, there must be lurking a big, big troublemaker that nails iStock a couple times a year with the bug-hammer.

By now, under Getty's wings I thought the IT-side would be not such a huge issue anymore but if you have reached such a status in any given industry you better be employing people who know what the fudge they are doing.

It's especially sad, since iStock performed extremely well at the beginning of this year (at least for me) and the dive it took was out of this world. So there must be something else going on (as mentioned above).

sharpshot · « **Reply #43 on:** August 03, 2010, 01:49 »

Istock can promote thinkstock as much as they like but it is flawed. It reminds me of snapvillage, Corbis spent lots promoting that but it never had a chance. If they really want thinkstock to succeed, they need to match shutterstock's commissions until they have great sales volume. There is no motivation for us to use them with the lowest subs commission and low sales volume. How can they get enough buyers when they have such a poor collection? Some people don't care how much commission they earn but they already have enough portfolios missing to make a big difference. Then there are all the other problems like not having the contributors name with the image, not being able to search by user and images not being transferred over to the site etc. As Corbis found out the hard way, throwing money at it wont work, they need to treat their contributors with more respect and make the site more appealing to buyers.

What I don't understand is they already had a great subs site with StockXpert and photos.com with much more high quality content and good sales volume. Closing that was a big mistake, it would of been much easier to let istock exclusives upload there and I am sure that would of damaged shutterstock.

iclick · « **Reply #44 on:** August 03, 2010, 02:11 »

Shutterstock as usual remains stable and my top earner by a long way

IStock still dropping but hanging on to second position in my earnings chart for the month ahead of Dreamstime and Fotolia

packerguy · « **Reply #45 on:** August 03, 2010, 11:26 »

July was my BME. It was helped by some ELs, but still may have been a BME without the ELs. I had BME on SS (42%), IS (32%), DT (9%) and Veer (7%).

RacePhoto · « **Reply #46 on:** August 03, 2010, 17:26 »

Quote from: louoates on August 01, 2010, 10:28

I've dropped out of these types of topics for psychological reasons. Much too depressing to dwell upon.

And I'm just boring.

Earlier in the year was 60/40 SS/IS
May/June changed to about 50/50
last month was 60/40 IS over SS.

Next month it could be back to 50/50 again. No complaints, the two best agencies, no fooling with wacko reviews, changing policies, obscure rejections. I'm very happy to have two places where I have an idea what they want and expect. Read this as SS sales are consistent (no new uploads in July), IS had an increase in sales last month.

Edit: July - BigStock $0, ThinkStock 25c in StockXpert sales, they don't count and are next to be cut. I'd say November so it clears in 2010, fresh books for 2011. Gone at last waiting for final payout FT, which they have notified me is in process. Polite requests and they gave polite answers.

All the rest are closed or have one name holder photo and should have been closed, but I didn't.

FD · « **Reply #47 on:** August 03, 2010, 20:41 »

Quote from: packerguy on August 03, 2010, 11:26

July was my BME.

Says who? Worthless info since you have no port links. Sorry. I had a BMW and a Ferrari at CrapMyStock but I won't show my links of course. Grrrr. (you may block me now).

luissantos84 · « **Reply #48 on:** August 03, 2010, 22:30 »

Quote from: FD-regular on August 03, 2010, 20:41

Quote from: packerguy on August 03, 2010, 11:26
July was my BME.
Says who? Worthless info since you have no port links. Sorry. I had a BMW and a Ferrari at CrapMyStock but I won't show my links of course. Grrrr. (you may block me now).

lol I was looking for the same the other day but no links!

lefty · « **Reply #49 on:** August 04, 2010, 09:42 »

Quote from: alias on August 02, 2010, 13:39

I think SS subscription model benefits new files and solid portfolios with new files. So size of the whole collection relative to your uploads is less significant when you carry on uploading. As fractions or ratios: (the size of IS / the size of your portfolio at IS) is increasing much faster than (all new uploads at SS / your new uploads at SS). At SS you are competing more with new members. You have solid body of work so you carry on ok. At IS you are competing much more with the total size.

akias, thank you for wisdom explanation. Now I also understand importance to regular upload to Shutterstock.
But I do that anyway because each time download arrives same day with approved status.
Last week was big surprise for me Istock also one download instantly with approved status, but for
little money, still same commission as Shutterstock. I think maybe Thinkstock is beginning to take affect.
Istock also slowly giving me confidence with some more download lately. I like Shutterstock for regular download
and big numbers, but I prefer IStock for dollar per download is more attractive. Except unless Thinkstock.
Lucky , my little download is Istock $ and hope this continue because although small number to download,
the money go up faster with IStock.

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Author Topic: That time of the month - Percentages for July (Read 31559 times)

alias

sharpshot

sharpshot

cthoman

alias

gostwyck

etienjones

nruboc

Artemis

lisafx

cthoman

alias

PaulieWalnuts

Norebbo

gostwyck

nruboc

Suljo

click_click

sharpshot

iclick

packerguy

RacePhoto

FD

luissantos84

lefty

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