MicrostockGroup
Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Stock Discussion => Topic started by: click_click on November 22, 2012, 10:37
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OK can we get it out of your system to prophesy the close end of microstock?
After doing this for 8 years now, I had my best one in 2012. What goes up, must come down - I get it but could we concentrate on the acopalyptic downfall of microstck or the stock image industry altogether in this thread instead of derailing and dragging down other threads?
I almost feel like this place has come to some sort of religious sect where we just wait for a guy to show up with a poisoned bowl of cool-aid just to get it over with.
We could make the best of it by supporting each other and discussing things on topic to make this forum even more valuable.
On this note, I wanted to thank Tyler for his tremendous effort to run this place, improve and monitor it which has been working out great!
To get back to the topic, let's hear (if you're willing to share) what your plans are for the future as it sure would be poor preparation talking about the death of this industry without figuring out what to do next.
Or for that matter use this thread to shout out angry expressions if your images got rejected again or some agency paid you late.
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Luckily, there's a McD's within walking distance I can work at, as surely I'll have to sell my car, and I couldn't afford gas anyways... :)
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Luckily, there's a McD's within walking distance I can work at, as surely I'll have to sell my car, and I couldn't afford gas anyways... :)
Good one Sean.
But seriously, would you mind sharing how you see the industry develop in the next couple of years?
Do you think it will come to a major breakdown within that time frame?
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I will have 30 years in my company soon thus a regular retirement, social security, decent 401k plan plus rental income thus the photo business is purely for fun and some extra dollars for purchasing a new lens or camera body every three to five years.
I really enjoy the folks on this site and have learn to truly appreciate the art and business of being a photographer even if it is part time. For those that make a living full time doing this business -you are truly gifted and have a burning desire for your passion- I respect you all!
Tom
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Sean, your one of the best in the business! You have a very good sense of humor and well respected! Some how I cannot 'picture' you working in the Golden Arches...
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I'm not sure if it's going to die. I'm just not sure it will be as profitable in the future. Regardless, I think having an escape plan is a good idea. I guess I'm a doomsday prepper.
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Sean, your one of the best in the business! You have a very good sense of humor and well respected! Some how I cannot 'picture' you working in the Golden Arches...
My first job was at Wendy's!
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Seems to me that we can never know what's around the corner in the age of the Internet. Microstock, Facebook, Twitter... all a complete surprise when they arrived for most of us. So I think it's impossible to predict what will arise and where the opportunities will come from.
As I said in another thread, I'll just continue producing the best work I can manage and building my port in wait for whatever comes next. I'd also like to do more artsy stuff and maybe sell prints and do some RM work. Having said that, I'm still optimistic about microstock. It's clear the agencies are making some adjustments right now, and not the kind that make us all cheer - but at the same time I'm selling more than ever... so I make no predictions and would rather just wait and see what emerges.
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My first job was at a Sunoco gas station- those were the good ole days...
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Sean, I found a car that will help you on not using too much gas-
http://www.teslamotors.com/ (http://www.teslamotors.com/)
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My first job was picking blueberries.
The stock industry has been in decline for years now. We just have to diversify and, perhaps, lower our expectations. Microstock isn't dead although I wish it had never been born in the first place.
Having said that I'm having one of the better years I've had in the last several.....
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It won't just suddenly end, it will slowly trail off into irrelevance.
"This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper."
- from poem "The Hollow Men", T.S. Eliot
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It won't just suddenly end, it will slowly trail off into irrelevance. ...
Yes, please elaborate more.
Let's have the details of the slow death of microstock documented here in this thread so all you need to do in future threads is to refer to this one here whenever you feel doomsday-ish.
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I'm trying to utilize the skills stock has given me, I plan to take better images for estate agents selling houses for the brochures, look into the EPC and floor plan details aswell. Hell, I could even design the brochures if I had time or it went well, Thats Idea #1
Videos for you've been framed, #2
urm… working on #3
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
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I can't see how microstock would end and then there'd be nothing.
Surely what microstock has proved is that there is a huge and ever-growing demand from designers for stock photography at prices within their budgets - and that they really appreciate a far wider choice than they had previously.
It's inconceivable to me that microstock would somehow terminate and all that demand would be left with nowhere to go. As long as that market is there it will either survive or evolve into another form. Either way, they'll need our images.
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I've seen posts here on the forums where some contributors apparently have the gift of seeing the future and outlined that this race to the bottom will supposedly go down to paying us %1 ::)
I'd love to hear from these people in what time frame they assume this is happening and by what time microstock can be considered extinct.
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Im going down the Pub. Its half dead already. Nothing gained nothing lost.
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Ah I see Click-click. In that case I'll leave the floor to the doom-merchants. I'm certainly not one of them.
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I've seen posts here on the forums where some contributors apparently have the gift of seeing the future and outlined that this race to the bottom will supposedly go down to paying us %1 ::)
Two years of falling income despite fairly steady uploading has shown me that I am unlikely to maintain my current income levels. However I do agree that, barring any unforeseen disasters, the decline will be gradual.
My plans, if that is the case, are to get my daughter through her last two years of college and out supporting herself, and then I won't need to make nearly as much. I can semi retire and go back to shooting what I like when I feel like it, and doing stock on a much more PT basis.
I'll probably leave the primary wage earning to my hubby, who loves his teaching gig and is planning to do it up to age 65 or 70.
OTOH, if the world economy recovers, we may see a big boost in sales. And there is always a chance the sites will begin to feel the effects of the demotivation their royalty cuts have caused and decide to begin raising rates again. If the money improves again, I can see myself getting motivated to plan, finance, and execute more shoots again.
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Sean, your one of the best in the business! You have a very good sense of humor and well respected! Some how I cannot 'picture' you working in the Golden Arches...
I assume you are speaking for yourself :o
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I've seen posts here on the forums where some contributors apparently have the gift of seeing the future and outlined that this race to the bottom will supposedly go down to paying us %1 ::)
Two years of falling income despite fairly steady uploading has shown me that I am unlikely to maintain my current income levels. However I do agree that, barring any unforeseen disasters, the decline will be gradual.
My plans, if that is the case, are to get my daughter through her last two years of college and out supporting herself, and then I won't need to make nearly as much. I can semi retire and go back to shooting what I like when I feel like it, and doing stock on a much more PT basis.
I'll probably leave the primary wage earning to my hubby, who loves his teaching gig and is planning to do it up to age 65 or 70.
OTOH, if the world economy recovers, we may see a big boost in sales. And there is always a chance the sites will begin to feel the effects of the demotivation their royalty cuts have caused and decide to begin raising rates again. If the money improves again, I can see myself getting motivated to plan, finance, and execute more shoots again.
Dont know about bad economy. How strong economy do you need to buy dirt-cheap pictures off the peg? The market is so completely oversaturated that the supply outstripps the demand by a million percent. The agencies have brought it upon themselves, advertising they have 20 million shots, etc. When an agency have 20 million shots it just means they are not selective. i.e. tons of garbage. any serious buyer will know that.
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I'd love to hear from these people in what time frame they assume this is happening and by what time microstock can be considered extinct.
I don't think anyone really expects the microstock industry to be extinct. At least I haven't read those posts, or if I have, I haven't bothered to take them seriously.
I do believe it is getting harder and harder for contributors to earn enough to make a full time living at it. Still quite possible, but not as much as 2-3 years ago, if the anecdotal evidence from the big ports and top sellers is correct.
Yes, there will always be demand, and always suppliers for images, even if they were to be free (which is not a scenario I subscribe to). But micro may go back to being primarily an area for hobbyists rather than a way to make a FT living.
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This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper
(T.S. Eliot)
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Just like cameras and photography did over the years, I do not think stock will ever die, it will just change shape (like a few years back nobody knew anything about digital photography).
All I hope for is that I still have the mental capacity, energy and finances to stay on track with the developments and not fall behind. When a door shuts, there is bound to open a new window, you just need to look for it.
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The one thing that has been constant in micro and every other industry for that matter is 'change'. Our futures in the industry will be about embracing change and taking advantage of new opportunities that will present themselves, and of course as always, there will be people who will fight change....and this will probably mean many people will leave the industry. Its going to be interesting if nothing else.
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Ok, one possible scenario consists of two sides of the coin(just playing around with probabilities) :
1. There is a huge low quality demanding market (in terms of resolution and technic) which MS stimulated at first: Bloggers, private websites, etc.. Possibly this market will focus more and more on even cheaper offered crowd sourced material which incorporates phenomena like instagram or phone photography. This market segment never hd been soooo quality sensitive like e.g. the prepress and print segment when it comes to image quality. On the other hand this trend might get pushed from the content creators too. Many People will not see the point anymore to buy a 36 MP / 2 Kg DSLR and walk around with that but will rather just switch completely to other mobile devices, low end system cameras or whatever.
So: imagine a site like Flickr working as a Agency. People upload their content directly from their device. Quality is not that a huge issue anymore, so inspection process is easy. Content is available almost immediately. Clients download the images for 5 or 10 cents a unit or have incredible cheap sub-plans. Most content is from mobile devices and includes not only creative material but editorial too.
The natural rebound effect to 1. is:
2. Because most of the low end / private clients / consumer market is covered by sites like above and most photos / creatives do use lower end devices instead of high end heavy and expensive cameras there are less and less people who shoot in this area. Buyers who are looking to buy these images are mostly professionals who seek out for either exclusive material or printable or high quality stuff. Prices here establish at a higher level and although the market is nowhere near where it was in the old, traditional stock days it may make some people remember those days. This high end market is not a mass market anymore since devices for creation are not considered as "sexy" anymore by the mass nor there is such a huge demand anymore for 50MP files since most of the media moved to the net. Exclusivity may be a important matter in this field. Photographers here may make a good living anyhow since competition might not be as harsh anymore.
....well, just playing around with concepts and strange predictions :-)
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Ok, one possible scenario consists of two sides of the coin(just playing around with probabilities) :
1. There is a huge low quality demanding market (in terms of resolution and technic) which MS stimulated at first: Bloggers, private websites, etc.. Possibly this market will focus more and more on even cheaper offered crowd sourced material which incorporates phenomena like instagram or phone photography. This market segment never hd been soooo quality sensitive like e.g. the prepress and print segment when it comes to image quality. On the other hand this trend might get pushed from the content creators too. Many People will not see the point anymore to buy a 36 MP / 2 Kg DSLR and walk around with that but will rather just switch completely to other mobile devices, low end system cameras or whatever.
So: imagine a site like Flickr working as a Agency. People upload their content directly from their device. Quality is not that a huge issue anymore, so inspection process is easy. Content is available almost immediately. Clients download the images for 5 or 10 cents a unit or have incredible cheap sub-plans. Most content is from mobile devices and includes not only creative material but editorial too.
The natural rebound effect to 1. is:
2. Because most of the low end / private clients / consumer market is covered by sites like above and most photos / creatives do use lower end devices instead of high end heavy and expensive cameras there are less and less people who shoot in this area. Buyers who are looking to buy these images are mostly professionals who seek out for either exclusive material or printable or high quality stuff. Prices here establish at a higher level and although the market is nowhere near where it was in the old, traditional stock days it may make some people remember those days. This high end market is not a mass market anymore since devices for creation are not considered as "sexy" anymore by the mass nor there is such a huge demand anymore for 50MP files since most of the media moved to the net. Exclusivity may be a important matter in this field. Photographers here may make a good living anyhow since competition might not be as harsh anymore.
....well, just playing around with concepts and strange predictions :-)
I totally agree with prediction #1... I think that's where we'll get to eventually (but probably not in the next couple of years, I'd say maybe 5?). But I think prediction #2 is a bit too optimistic... in the part where it would still be possible to "make a good living"as traditional stock shooter. Higher quality and bigger resolution images will most likely be produced by assignment photographers for specific needs of the client. Photographers' compensation will decrease even more (happening already), so it will be more convenient and cost-effective to hire a photographer than to find a suitable high quality stock photo. So, I see huge cheap lower (but reasonable) quality libraries of images on one end, and higher quality custom produced work on the other.... and no place for traditional stock agencies.
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Ok, one possible scenario consists of two sides of the coin(just playing around with probabilities) :
1. There is a huge low quality demanding market (in terms of resolution and technic) which MS stimulated at first: Bloggers, private websites, etc.. Possibly this market will focus more and more on even cheaper offered crowd sourced material which incorporates phenomena like instagram or phone photography. This market segment never hd been soooo quality sensitive like e.g. the prepress and print segment when it comes to image quality. On the other hand this trend might get pushed from the content creators too. Many People will not see the point anymore to buy a 36 MP / 2 Kg DSLR and walk around with that but will rather just switch completely to other mobile devices, low end system cameras or whatever.
So: imagine a site like Flickr working as a Agency. People upload their content directly from their device. Quality is not that a huge issue anymore, so inspection process is easy. Content is available almost immediately. Clients download the images for 5 or 10 cents a unit or have incredible cheap sub-plans. Most content is from mobile devices and includes not only creative material but editorial too.
The natural rebound effect to 1. is:
2. Because most of the low end / private clients / consumer market is covered by sites like above and most photos / creatives do use lower end devices instead of high end heavy and expensive cameras there are less and less people who shoot in this area. Buyers who are looking to buy these images are mostly professionals who seek out for either exclusive material or printable or high quality stuff. Prices here establish at a higher level and although the market is nowhere near where it was in the old, traditional stock days it may make some people remember those days. This high end market is not a mass market anymore since devices for creation are not considered as "sexy" anymore by the mass nor there is such a huge demand anymore for 50MP files since most of the media moved to the net. Exclusivity may be a important matter in this field. Photographers here may make a good living anyhow since competition might not be as harsh anymore.
....well, just playing around with concepts and strange predictions :-)
I totally agree with prediction #1... I think that's where we'll get to eventually (but probably not in the next couple of years, I'd say maybe 5?). But I think prediction #2 is a bit too optimistic... in the part where it would still be possible to "make a good living"as traditional stock shooter. Higher quality and bigger resolution images will most likely be produced by assignment photographers for specific needs of the client. Photographers' compensation will decrease even more (happening already), so it will be more convenient and cost-effective to hire a photographer than to find a suitable high quality stock photo. So, I see huge cheap lower (but reasonable) quality libraries of images on one end, and higher quality custom produced work on the other.... and no place for traditional stock agencies.
Yes, I know what you mean about "too optimistic" on point 2. However, I made that prediction based on my current RM sales on trad Agencies which are actually growing (although I thought two years ago that this market would completely disappear). Off course you could be right with the "hiring" part which could be a version of how the high end market evolves.
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#2 is pretty realistic in terms of the general population. I shoot socials a lot and 99% of people use their phones to take pics. Last night there were 6 of us real photographers (working for various media) and one in-house staffer who had a cheap SLR, not another real camera to be seen. Same story can be told at weddings nowadays. So for many areas of photography (like portraiture, weddings etc) I think we are going to be ok as most people can't look past the convenience of their phones as a camera.
Those who shoot solely for stock are very talented and committed to be making a living from just the one genre. Like most photographers we have to be willing to shoot anything to make a living.
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Ok, one possible scenario consists of two sides of the coin(just playing around with probabilities) :
1. ...
Photographers' compensation will decrease even more (happening already), so it will be more convenient and cost-effective to hire a photographer than to find a suitable high quality stock photo. So, I see huge cheap lower (but reasonable) quality libraries of images on one end, and higher quality custom produced work on the other.... and no place for traditional stock agencies.
you think so? I'm charging $300 for 10 images for business' marketing needs. Most of the time they need me cos they don't want the fake look of stock images, but the reality is that their workplace is usually unattractive, as are their staff, so my pics don't look as good as stock, but cost more. Ha! So long as newbie 'togs don't come in and start charging $100 for a giant shoot then I'm doing my bit to keep myself employed but also keep the stock side looking attractive.
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So for many areas of photography (like portraiture, weddings etc) I think we are going to be ok as most people can't look past the convenience of their phones as a camera.
Very true. The thing is, though, the cameras in their phones are evolving into something much better than even the original pro digital cameras used to be. And most people are and will be very happy with the results.
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So for many areas of photography (like portraiture, weddings etc) I think we are going to be ok as most people can't look past the convenience of their phones as a camera.
And many people don't really see any point in paying for better quality: they're happy enough with what they get. I guess to a large extent it depends where you live, but I see photographers come and go here like buses. They get their start up grant, use it up, and shortly after that, disappear, and another hopeful comes along. Some of their work is good. Some really launch themselves into marketing. The current one in my small town seems to have done a course in American-style marketing, meaning she's getting out there, but it's not what people here need/want.
Even wedding nowadays sometimes (I've no idea of the proportion) don't have a 'proper' photographer. People say they don't like the 'fake' 'set-up' photos which have really nothing to do with the day. Guests complain about hanging about waiting to be fed while the photographer tweaks every little detail. Everyone knows once the family has seen the photos, they just sit in a drawer for ever afterwards.
However, that, along with the prices people seem to get for jobs (as I've read here), is just one more thing that's different in the US, apparently.
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unless the door slams in my face CD ;D
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unless the door slams in my face CD ;D
Oh, poor Tom! :'( What did this industry do to you? ::) If I where your family I'll keep you as far away as possible from all bridges and sharp objects ;D
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Ok, one possible scenario consists of two sides of the coin(just playing around with probabilities) :
1. There is a huge low quality demanding market (in terms of resolution and technic) which MS stimulated at first: Bloggers, private websites, etc.. Possibly this market will focus more and more on even cheaper offered crowd sourced material which incorporates phenomena like instagram or phone photography. This market segment never hd been soooo quality sensitive like e.g. the prepress and print segment when it comes to image quality. On the other hand this trend might get pushed from the content creators too. Many People will not see the point anymore to buy a 36 MP / 2 Kg DSLR and walk around with that but will rather just switch completely to other mobile devices, low end system cameras or whatever.
So: imagine a site like Flickr working as a Agency. People upload their content directly from their device. Quality is not that a huge issue anymore, so inspection process is easy. Content is available almost immediately. Clients download the images for 5 or 10 cents a unit or have incredible cheap sub-plans. Most content is from mobile devices and includes not only creative material but editorial too.
The natural rebound effect to 1. is:
2. Because most of the low end / private clients / consumer market is covered by sites like above and most photos / creatives do use lower end devices instead of high end heavy and expensive cameras there are less and less people who shoot in this area. Buyers who are looking to buy these images are mostly professionals who seek out for either exclusive material or printable or high quality stuff. Prices here establish at a higher level and although the market is nowhere near where it was in the old, traditional stock days it may make some people remember those days. This high end market is not a mass market anymore since devices for creation are not considered as "sexy" anymore by the mass nor there is such a huge demand anymore for 50MP files since most of the media moved to the net. Exclusivity may be a important matter in this field. Photographers here may make a good living anyhow since competition might not be as harsh anymore.
....well, just playing around with concepts and strange predictions :-)
Good predictions! very probable scenarios indeed. Exept the Trad RM agencies will always play a part. There will always be customers willing to pay for rights, etc. simply because they have to.
Example: a German corp. just purchased 23 images for a campaign and in a futile effort to actually save the company and they needed the rights for logos and trademarks changes and for a profile, etc. These kind of clients will always exist.
Same as you, my own RM sales have doubled in the last two years.
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I believe the microstock industry will become increasingly inaccessible to amateurs ... it's only a matter of time. Too many images are added every day on the agencies collections.... something must be done in the future and this is the only way...
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I believe the microstock industry will become increasingly inaccessible to amateurs ... it's only a matter of time. Too many images are added every day on the agencies collections.... something must be done in the future and this is the only way...
This I agree with 1000%! its to weed out the amateurs and a hell of a lot of generic garbage. This has got to be done just to get a clear overview of this mess. Some of them have already started with strignent reviewing, etc.
They slso have to realize that in the search, the heart of the agency, they simply have to include the commercial sellers, the bread and butter stuff that ensures revenue. The days when they could just sit and wait for great portfolios are over.
As one CEO of an agency said to me on the phone, 99 new ports of 100, are just pure rubbish.
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I believe the microstock industry will become increasingly inaccessible to amateurs ... it's only a matter of time. Too many images are added every day on the agencies collections.... something must be done in the future and this is the only way...
This I agree with 1000%! its to weed out the amateurs and a hell of a lot of generic garbage. This has got to be done just to get a clear overview of this mess. Some of them have already started with strignent reviewing, etc.
They slso have to realize that in the search, the heart of the agency, they simply have to include the commercial sellers, the bread and butter stuff that ensures revenue. The days when they could just sit and wait for great portfolios are over.
As one CEO of an agency said to me on the phone, 99 new ports of 100, are just pure rubbish.
well mine's good so yours must be rubbish ;)
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I believe the microstock industry will become increasingly inaccessible to amateurs ... it's only a matter of time. Too many images are added every day on the agencies collections.... something must be done in the future and this is the only way...
This I agree with 1000%! its to weed out the amateurs and a hell of a lot of generic garbage. This has got to be done just to get a clear overview of this mess. Some of them have already started with strignent reviewing, etc.
They slso have to realize that in the search, the heart of the agency, they simply have to include the commercial sellers, the bread and butter stuff that ensures revenue. The days when they could just sit and wait for great portfolios are over.
As one CEO of an agency said to me on the phone, 99 new ports of 100, are just pure rubbish.
well mine's good so yours must be rubbish ;)
Let's see ... they want premium portfólios to pay less and less money, selling less and less quantity ????
Agencies also have a big problem ... good photos cost money, and if we start to see that they don't sell at good prices or sell many times at small prices ... we leave, or we start to distribute in other market's, or we just photograph for fun (nice tought).
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its to weed out the amateurs and a hell of a lot of generic garbage.
Generic is what sells in bulk and made micro possible.
If someone wants expensive shoots, they need to pay for it.
Perhaps what Micro has done is raise expectations of pixel peeping quality (how often do we read of someone who's been supplying macros for years and finds it difficult to get accepted at micros) at rock bottom prices.
This was not a good thing.
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What would your advice be for someone who's just starting out? 'Don't bother' I'm guessing.
I'm a full time graphic designer and I struggle to find time to take pictures and i don't have anywhere near enough good quality images yet to make any kind of trickle of income but it's an avenue I really want to try out. Am I wasting my time or should I just plod on taking images I like and/or think will sell and keep adding but not expect anything from it?
Just ordered my first telephoto zoom lens (canon 55-250mm) and am excited to get out there and start snapping
Any advice would be grand!
Cheers
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At $300, I wouldn't expect much stock use out of that lens. It's consumer grade.
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True. First misstake as a photographer is to skimp on the equipment. Some here will say Oh but its only low res this and that, it doesnt matter.
It does matter and it matters a lot. Many micros are going towards macro and second class equipment just wont cut it. The lens you just bought is just about a kit lens, no more and if you can afford it get a better one, a second hand L optic wouldnt hurt actually.
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Oh dear. I can't justify huge amounts of money on a lens at this stage as I'm just starting out. However, I'm aware that the more expensive the lens the better but can someone explain what are the precise benefits of a more expensive lens in order of importance? ie is it sharpness / aperture size/speed etc etc?
I read a book on microstock that made promises like - "as long as you have a DSLR with a range of lenses and a good knowledge base of the equipment then you too can make a living out of the wonderful world of microstock... blah blah promises promises"
It just seems theres an unscalable mountain to climb (and I'm not usually a negative person)
Thanks guys
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What would your advice be for someone who's just starting out? 'Don't bother' I'm guessing.
I'm a full time graphic designer and I struggle to find time to take pictures and i don't have anywhere near enough good quality images yet to make any kind of trickle of income but it's an avenue I really want to try out. Am I wasting my time or should I just plod on taking images I like and/or think will sell and keep adding but not expect anything from it?
Just ordered my first telephoto zoom lens (canon 55-250mm) and am excited to get out there and start snapping
Any advice would be grand!
Cheers
I don't think you can count on giving up your day job for photography, but I think you can make some decent extra money. As a graphic designer, you have a huge advantage on the average microstock submitter. You know what types of images are going to SELL, and also have, presumably, an innate artistic sense.
The graphic designers in this business produce some of the most marketable work.
I would stay away from the super zooms though. Not good quality and overkill on the range. For stock a mid range 24-70 would suit you better. Tamron has the 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di LD Lens that is excellent and also reasonably priced.
Best of luck :)
PS - there are a lot of books out there touting the "get rich quick" microstock industry. They were A) written before competition was so stiff, and B) written by people trying to sell books, and grand promises do that better than painting a realistic picture.
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I predict that what will happen in the future is what has already started happening right now. Agencies like Getty will try to move their good photographers back to "traditional" photography. They will try to dismantle the microstock agencies that are left, but as long as there is a print industry, there will be clients for microstock. The oversupply of photographers will mean that there are only maybe 2 or 3 agencies that can make it (shutterstock being one), but I can't see there NOT being a microstock company, unless print disappears altogether and the world is totally digital.
The companies will continue to push to increase their profits, and decrease the commission they pay to contributors (no big prediction there, as this has already been happening and I believe will continue to). I don't think microstock is going away anytime soon. I think there is a market segment somewhere between the bloggers and individuals who are happy with their cell phone snaps and the large companies who can afford to pay $300 for an image. That segment would be the small to midsize companies and designers who still need good photography at less than traditional stock costs.
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Thanks Lisa! Very helpful. I've always looked upon stock as a potential string to my future income bow. I'll give it a shot, what's the worst that could happen? I like photography so it won't be wasted time.
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I read a book on microstock that made promises like - "as long as you have a DSLR with a range of lenses and a good knowledge base of the equipment then you too can make a living out of the wonderful world of microstock... blah blah promises promises"
PS - there are a lot of books out there touting the "get rich quick" microstock industry. They were A) written before competition was so stiff, and B) written by people trying to sell books, and grand promises do that better than painting a realistic picture.
+1
@OP: Your prospects depend a lot on you having access to American-looking models who don't mind having their image used to promote 'any product or service', and being able to photograph them to microstock standards, which are very high. Some people do well with non-people shots; but more and more, properly released imagery is what will sell, as most other things can be acquired CC, especially if pixel perfection isn't needed (which it seldom is).
Much as I hate to say it, it's not just 'what you do with it', but also your actual equipment which counts, when you get down to pixel-perfect pernickitiness.
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I'll give it a shot, what's the worst that could happen? I like photography so it won't be wasted time.
The worst that could happen is that you'll spend so much time looking for things that will sell rather than what interests you that you'll be in danger of losing your own vision, creativity and enthusiasm.
(Unless you happen to actually enjoy the commercial stuff.)
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I'll give it a shot, what's the worst that could happen? I like photography so it won't be wasted time.
The worst that could happen is that you'll spend so much time looking for things that will sell rather than what interests you that you'll be in danger of losing your own vision, creativity and enthusiasm.
(Unless you happen to actually enjoy the commercial stuff.)
The moment I stop learning stuff or enjoying it, I'll knock stock-shooting on the head
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I've recently had some pics accepted as editorial. I e-mailed our local paper (put out 3 days a week). Maybe can do some freelancing. If that falls through i'll just roll with the flow.
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As mentioned, the Tamron 28-75 is great for the price.
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found the canon lens at $199
https://www.google.com/shopping/product/2900695935748189759?q=canon+55-200+lens&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=np&sa=X&ei=74mvUN2GGoGDjALHzYGgCg&ved=0CL0BEK0E (https://www.google.com/shopping/product/2900695935748189759?q=canon+55-200+lens&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=np&sa=X&ei=74mvUN2GGoGDjALHzYGgCg&ved=0CL0BEK0E)
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The only thing you can say for certain about the future-"IT WILL CHANGE". So all you can do- Is try to catch the wave.
Smiling Jack
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The market is so completely oversaturated that the supply outstripps the demand by a million percent.
You know, I hear that all of the time, but whenever I'm looking for a photo for a client, it seems like I can never find what I want!
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One thing that everyone might agree on is that the microstocks - the big ones at least - have made it ever more of a PITA for buyers. The marketing brains at these agencies think that all these constantly changing pricing plans, credis, tiers, subscriptions, 'price sliders', special collections, search options yada yada yada are giving buyers "choice". What they are really doing is ratcheting up the hassle factor. Sort of like what's happened in health care.
The long term result is that people who now buy stock photos will be looking for completely different material to use in their projects. Who knows what it will be. These things are driven by social trends which are completely unpredictable.
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One thing that everyone might agree on is that the microstocks - the big ones at least - have made it ever more of a PITA for buyers. The marketing brains at these agencies think that all these constantly changing pricing plans, credis, tiers, subscriptions, 'price sliders', special collections, search options yada yada yada are giving buyers "choice".
Except Shutterstock __ and that is precisely why they are doing fantastic business and every other agency is suffering in accordance to their 'greed quotient'.
'Microstock' is simply returning to it's roots. It won't please everyone but that's business and, with SS spending $30M+ per annum on marketing themselves, there's probably not much you can do to change it. Personally I'm very comfortable with the microstock model that SS has developed and mastered.
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The market is so completely oversaturated that the supply outstripps the demand by a million percent.
You know, I hear that all of the time, but whenever I'm looking for a photo for a client, it seems like I can never find what I want!
Ha, ha! and thats exactly why! too much choice and 80% garbage. Thats the human eye syndrome, it will register the whole intake but finds it difficult to actually select one.
An AD at the Getty-RM once said to me. Put 50 almost similar pics in front of a buyer and he will find them all good or all rubbish, put 2 pics in front of a buyer and he will be looking for the other 48. Thats micro buyers for you. They dont come here looking for pics following a brief or layout, etc. They come here because its cheap.
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One thing that everyone might agree on is that the microstocks - the big ones at least - have made it ever more of a PITA for buyers. The marketing brains at these agencies think that all these constantly changing pricing plans, credis, tiers, subscriptions, 'price sliders', special collections, search options yada yada yada are giving buyers "choice".
Except Shutterstock __ and that is precisely why they are doing fantastic business and every other agency is suffering in accordance to their 'greed quotient'.
'Microstock' is simply returning to it's roots. It won't please everyone but that's business and, with SS spending $30M+ per annum on marketing themselves, there's probably not much you can do to change it. Personally I'm very comfortable with the microstock model that SS has developed and mastered.
Yeah, yeah, just wait and see. Sorry to rain on your SS parade as the masterplan of all plans. Takes a bit more the some years in micro to be able to judge any comparisons. Would have thought you would have known that by now.
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One thing that everyone might agree on is that the microstocks - the big ones at least - have made it ever more of a PITA for buyers. The marketing brains at these agencies think that all these constantly changing pricing plans, credis, tiers, subscriptions, 'price sliders', special collections, search options yada yada yada are giving buyers "choice".
Except Shutterstock __ and that is precisely why they are doing fantastic business and every other agency is suffering in accordance to their 'greed quotient'.
'Microstock' is simply returning to it's roots. It won't please everyone but that's business and, with SS spending $30M+ per annum on marketing themselves, there's probably not much you can do to change it. Personally I'm very comfortable with the microstock model that SS has developed and mastered.
I am very new to stock, but that sounds about right to me
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I've seen posts here on the forums where some contributors apparently have the gift of seeing the future and outlined that this race to the bottom will supposedly go down to paying us %1 ::)
Two years of falling income despite fairly steady uploading has shown me that I am unlikely to maintain my current income levels. However I do agree that, barring any unforeseen disasters, the decline will be gradual.
My plans, if that is the case, are to get my daughter through her last two years of college and out supporting herself, and then I won't need to make nearly as much. I can semi retire and go back to shooting what I like when I feel like it, and doing stock on a much more PT basis.
I'll probably leave the primary wage earning to my hubby, who loves his teaching gig and is planning to do it up to age 65 or 70.
OTOH, if the world economy recovers, we may see a big boost in sales. And there is always a chance the sites will begin to feel the effects of the demotivation their royalty cuts have caused and decide to begin raising rates again. If the money improves again, I can see myself getting motivated to plan, finance, and execute more shoots again.
Not so sure about the gradual decline thing. I might even call it a disaster. Did you notice the top selling Xmas exclusive went from selling 60,000 images in one xmas a few years back to less than 1000 this xmas. At least judging by her new stuff flopping. But don't feel too bad she probably made $1.5 million give or take 500k since 2006 so exclusitivity was a no brainer.
It appears some popular xmas themes went from selling more than a 1000 dls in a season to less than 20 this year. Ouch! If istock can't sell xmas, which they said last 4 months were almost half of their sales, then they are toast. The exodus will be swift and the price wars will be brutal.
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Not so sure about the gradual decline thing. I might even call it a disaster. Did you notice the top selling Xmas exclusive went from selling 60,000 images in one xmas a few years back to less than 1000 this xmas. At least judging by her new stuff flopping. But don't feel too bad she probably made $1.5 million give or take 500k since 2006 so exclusitivity was a no brainer.
It appears some popular xmas themes went from selling more than a 1000 dls in a season to less than 20 this year. Ouch! If istock can't sell xmas, which they said last 4 months were almost half of their sales, then they are toast. The exodus will be swift and the price wars will be brutal.
IS has managed to put itself down in a very long and painful way. Maybe they did it so we can all watch it happen in slow motion and prepare. Yes, maybe IS wanted us to prepare to avoid sudden unemployment for us. Maybe IS wanted to do us a favor and maybe they even saved our lives.
:o
Microstock won't stop existing over night. IT will be a 2 year long process (if even that short) that will tear down big players which I don't see happening anyway.
That we will make less in terms of commission % - yes. Sales volume may even go down as well.
But that shouldn't keep us from selling our stuff elsewhere...
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I've seen posts here on the forums where some contributors apparently have the gift of seeing the future and outlined that this race to the bottom will supposedly go down to paying us %1 ::)
Two years of falling income despite fairly steady uploading has shown me that I am unlikely to maintain my current income levels. However I do agree that, barring any unforeseen disasters, the decline will be gradual.
My plans, if that is the case, are to get my daughter through her last two years of college and out supporting herself, and then I won't need to make nearly as much. I can semi retire and go back to shooting what I like when I feel like it, and doing stock on a much more PT basis.
I'll probably leave the primary wage earning to my hubby, who loves his teaching gig and is planning to do it up to age 65 or 70.
OTOH, if the world economy recovers, we may see a big boost in sales. And there is always a chance the sites will begin to feel the effects of the demotivation their royalty cuts have caused and decide to begin raising rates again. If the money improves again, I can see myself getting motivated to plan, finance, and execute more shoots again.
Not so sure about the gradual decline thing. I might even call it a disaster. Did you notice the top selling Xmas exclusive went from selling 60,000 images in one xmas a few years back to less than 1000 this xmas. At least judging by her new stuff flopping. But don't feel too bad she probably made $1.5 million give or take 500k since 2006 so exclusitivity was a no brainer.
It appears some popular xmas themes went from selling more than a 1000 dls in a season to less than 20 this year. Ouch! If istock can't sell xmas, which they said last 4 months were almost half of their sales, then they are toast. The exodus will be swift and the price wars will be brutal.
istock is not representative for the whole MS industry. They are destroying themselves all alone without any help from further market circumstances ;-)
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Just another apocalyptic topic... ::)
Will marketing die?
I don't think so...
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Just another apocalyptic topic... ::) ...
Well that's why I started it.
I want everyone to get their doomsday predictions out of their system so we can make this forum more constructive again with more positive threads!
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In the end I think Doomsday for MS had been cancelled for now :D Business is just getting mature and as many pointed out here: it just will not happen that overnight nobody needs to buy images anymore. There will always be demand, therefore there will be always channels for us to sell content. Matter is just how, when and for how much.
Would`t it be fun if another big player came into the came to stirr the market a bit up again? 123rf (inmagine) and veer (corbis) had been a big dissapointment (mostly management and strategy failures)...
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Liz, for some reason your post looks like a quote from me, even though my text appears to have been removed from it :)
PS - there are a lot of books out there touting the "get rich quick" microstock industry. They were A) written before competition was so stiff, and B) written by people trying to sell books, and grand promises do that better than painting a realistic picture.
Your prospects depend a lot on you having access to American-looking models who don't mind having their image used to promote 'any product or service', and being able to photograph them to microstock standards, which are very high. Some people do well with non-people shots; but more and more, properly released imagery is what will sell, as most other things can be acquired CC, especially if pixel perfection isn't needed (which it seldom is).
Much as I hate to say it, it's not just 'what you do with it', but also your actual equipment which counts, when you get down to pixel-perfect pernickitiness.
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Liz, for some reason your post looks like a quote from me, even though my text appears to have been removed from it :)
Sorry Lisa, bad conflation on my part. Your quote is there, but attributed to Stingey.
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I want everyone to get their doomsday predictions out of their system so we can make this forum more constructive again with more positive threads!
A noble intention, to be sure. However, I think that the negativity in these forums is likely to continue as long as the agencies keep lowering conditions for contributors.
You know the old expression "Don't (pee) on me and tell me it's raining".
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I want everyone to get their doomsday predictions out of their system so we can make this forum more constructive again with more positive threads!
A noble intention, to be sure. However, I think that the negativity in these forums is likely to continue as long as the agencies keep lowering conditions for contributors.
You know the old expression "Don't (pee) on me and tell me it's raining".
Haven't heard that expression; but with the agencies it's more like they pee on us and try to convince us the sun's shining.
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Haven't heard that expression; but with the agencies it's more like they pee on us and try to convince us the sun's shining.
Oh yes! Bingo! Spot on.
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I want everyone to get their doomsday predictions out of their system so we can make this forum more constructive again with more positive threads!
A noble intention, to be sure. However, I think that the negativity in these forums is likely to continue as long as the agencies keep lowering conditions for contributors.
You know the old expression "Don't (pee) on me and tell me it's raining".
Haven't heard that expression; but with the agencies it's more like they pee on us and try to convince us the sun's shining.
Where they stand, the sun is shining and when they're peeing on us they're oblivious to the fact that they're casting a shadow. :o
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The microstock industry will end on Dec 21 along with the rest of the world on the Mayan Doomsday. ;)
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Guys,
You really have too much time.
Do not be so pessimistic.
At this time I shoot and upload, shoot and upload,...
And as I always say,
enjoy.
Regards.
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The microstock industry will end on Dec 21 along with the rest of the world on the Mayan Doomsday. ;)
No no, ss have set up an office in Bugarach ;)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20484590 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20484590)
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1) But seriously, would you mind sharing how you see the industry develop in the next couple of years?
2) Do you think it will come to a major breakdown within that time frame?
First Number two. NO!
And then number one = leveling off (we already see that but some see it as doom and gloom) Stabilizing and Contraction. Micro was a young industry, now it's bloated, too many agencies, remember software companies in the 70s and 80s. (well maybe not? But I do) Remember all the companies who got into making computers, and how many are left. Cell phone providers, cable TV networks.
Now the libraries are filled, it's not even like two years ago. Come search 12 million images, how many do they need, of the same things? How many variations does a buyer need? Not 38,000 sliced tomatoes, girls with headsets, business handshakes or jumping goldfish. (even less cute puppies, amusing cats, flowers and trees...) There are another few thousand cliche images, which will not sell as well as when there were only the first few thousand of each subject.
You can not have the wild growth that Microstock had in the past. There are buyer limits, photo limits, and people don't seem to understand competition. If there were 4000 people competing and selling 2 million images, now there are 30,000 artists and 15 million images. Who thinks they are the chosen one that should get all the sales they used to get, before the pie was sliced paper thin?
Sales and percentages of sales are going down. Competition is going up. On a personal level, people are seeing the consequences. BUT!
The agencies are still selling as much as every and making record profits. All the talk of broken searches, terrible sales levels, low income and whatever else (all those things with letters for looking at personal statistics) are very personal. They are individual and you can't tell from what I sell, how you will do, and someone else can watch both of us and have different results.
The agencies on top are doing fine. So the "industry" is just fine. If you were asking about personal profits for individuals, that's going to be a little less profitable for probably every one of us. (except slugs like me who are in the slow growth business) People with pig collections will be losing. They will still make good money and make more than the little people, but they won't make as much as they do now.
The market can't expand forever, sales can't keep increasing, there are limits! It's not going to burst, it's going to stabilize at a comfortable size, maybe contract a little, but Microstock (or some form of crowd-sourcing images) is here to stay.
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The agencies on top are doing fine. So the "industry" is just fine. If you were asking about personal profits for individuals, that's going to be a little less profitable for probably every one of us. (except slugs like me who are in the slow growth business) People with pig collections will be losing. They will still make good money and make more than the little people, but they won't make as much as they do now.
The market can't expand forever, sales can't keep increasing, there are limits! It's not going to burst, it's going to stabilize at a comfortable size, maybe contract a little, but Microstock (or some form of crowd-sourcing images) is here to stay.
I've thought for a while that there would be a split in the industry and we would be left with two models. One would be massive crowd-sourced sites where everyone is invited, they'd have large sales quantities, but the share of the pie would be small. The other model would be smaller more restrictive niche sites that would sell less quantity, but you'd get larger profits because of less competition. Unfortunately, I haven't seen many niche sites popping up lately, so I'm not sure if that opportunity will be made available to many contributors. Unless, they build their own site.
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You really have too much time.
Do not be so pessimistic.
How sweet of you to take a break from your shoot upload repeat treadmill to come in here and straighten us all out. ;)
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I see 4-5 Agencies surviving after 4 more years and artists getting increasingly diminished returns even with same or greater output to their portfolios.
Artists have the loosing side here as was evidenced these last years when commissions were cut. The best we can do is produce enough to make the downward slide less abrupt more like a slow down-slope.
Maybe by then we would be in a position to have our content hosted on our own terms with a company just handling the search. Like a Google of microstock, they get 20% we get 80% and there is no curation, we set our prices, we host the content and they just bring the eyes and wallets to it.
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I see 4-5 Agencies surviving after 4 more years and artists getting increasingly diminished returns even with same or greater output to their portfolios.
Artists have the loosing side here as was evidenced these last years when commissions were cut. The best we can do is produce enough to make the downward slide less abrupt more like a slow down-slope.
Maybe by then we would be in a position to have our content hosted on our own terms with a company just handling the search. Like a Google of microstock, they get 20% we get 80% and there is no curation, we set our prices, we host the content and they just bring the eyes and wallets to it.
No way, youre far too optimistic. At this rate it wont last another 4 years and if it should? left will be the c##p, nothing else. Maybe its all for the better? so we can go back to the stock and photography business the way it used to be. Much, much healthier.
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The microstock agencies party will only last until a guy makes an filesharing indexing matrix so we can sell directly out our harddisk. The broad band is there.
All this upload, inspection and categories we do now is oldfashioned.
Keywords are not.
All it takes is that we wing out different licensing options and connect model releases. The deal could easily be done between the contributor and the buyer. There is such a thing as IPTC.
And legal stuff?
Yes, that goes back to the old days, where people who did things were responsible for it. The end user.
Same with weapons trade.
Come on, some wizzkid, do it! Im too old myself.
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when the ends in 2012 as predicted I will go fishing with my daughter...
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The microstock agencies party will only last until a guy makes an filesharing indexing matrix so we can sell directly out our harddisk. The broad band is there.
All this upload, inspection and categories we do now is oldfashioned.
Keywords are not.
All it takes is that we wing out different licensing options and connect model releases. The deal could easily be done between the contributor and the buyer. There is such a thing as IPTC.
And legal stuff?
Yes, that goes back to the old days, where people who did things were responsible for it. The end user.
Same with weapons trade.
Come on, some wizzkid, do it! Im too old myself.
How is going from say 50 million unique images online to 20 billion images going to be the end of stock? Because a) I Dont see that matrix become a success b) Buyers will turn to stock to find quality again after they waded through 200000000 pages of crapstock.
Flickr already has over 6 billion images online, can you image what will be on hard drives
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I think there will always be a need for an agency between photographers and buyers - at least for those of us with no direct access to any buyers. They aren't going to find me through some future "Google Stock" search site.
We want an agency with an interest in a future more than 3 months ahead, that intends to keep participation worthwhile for producers of quality new images.
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We want an agency with an interest in a future more than 3 months ahead, that intends to keep participation worthwhile for producers of quality new images.
Have you heard of a company called "Shutterstock". By all accounts they're doing very well and contributors' incomes are steadily increasing. I shouldn't wonder that their enterprise horizons might even be a tad longer than the 3 months you require.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=SSTK (http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=SSTK)
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They aren't going to find me through some future "Google Stock" search site.
You could always try regular Google. It works pretty well and already exists. ;)
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plus the don't owe Mexico $2.7 billion (USD) ;D
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Maybe new specialized agencies catering to niche markets will be born - for farmer's produce, dentists, hand-shakers, glamour, smartphones in hot tub, vampires, ...
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Here is the rundown of happenings during 2013.
Jon at SS, will leave and concentrate on his lifelong passion, softwares and programs. he has the money no doubt to make a hell of a go. SS without Jon? and in the hands of the shares bulls and bears?. Anybodies guess.
IS: totally amalgamated into Getty and TS, etc. They will launch a new platform inside Getty, housing the IS ppl.
FT: they lost the interest for their contributors even before IS. They dont really care about anything anymore and my guess is we will see a change of admin and strategy pretty soon.
DT: well they dont cause too much stir, few changes here and there but basically they chose their battles and I can see more and more of subs coming into this but they are a cautious general.
The rest: Gone.
Oh by the way! this is not only predictions. I do happen to know a bit, " behind the scenes" so to speak. Say no more. :)
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I have read all the posts on this topic and while almost everybody seems to complain or be afraid of microstock apocalypse still nobody raised the next important topic WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT IT ? Come on people !
All those big players and i refer to agencies, without our work are NOTHING ,
I am sorry if someone feels offended, but as long as we submit our work for as low as 20% and continue to sell different form of art in subscription plans, like vegetables on the market, very soon we will end by selling portfolios for few bucks.....
and off topic, here is a very inspiring movie China: A Century of Revolution [1911 -1949] Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg-PgXt8Tkc#)
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I have read all the posts on this topic and while almost everybody seems to complain or be afraid of microstock apocalypse still nobody raised the next important topic WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT IT ? Come on people !
All those big players and i refer to agencies, without our work are NOTHING ,
I am sorry if someone feels offended, but as long as we submit our work for as low as 20% and continue to sell different form of art in subscription plans, like vegetables on the market, very soon we will end by selling portfolios for few bucks.....
and off topic, here is a very inspiring movie China: A Century of Revolution [1911 -1949] Part 1 ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qg-PgXt8Tkc#[/url])
You need to do a bit more of reading dude. You are late to the party, and thats an understatement. ;)
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The rest: Gone.
That's a bit of a sweeping statement...talk about the microstock apocalypse.
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The rest: Gone.
I can pretty much guarantee this isn't going to happen.
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move to China... ::)
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Oh by the way! this is not only predictions. I do happen to know a bit, " behind the scenes" so to speak. Say no more. :)
I still can't understand why you continue to waste your time with us "bunch, thats all mouth and no money" as you so charmingly put it, where you 'used to be but it gave a bad rep', but came back under a different nom-de-guerre.
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LOL
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Oh by the way! this is not only predictions. I do happen to know a bit, " behind the scenes" so to speak. Say no more. :)
I still can't understand why you continue to waste your time with us "bunch, thats all mouth and no money" as you so charmingly put it, where you 'used to be but it gave a bad rep', but came back under a different nom-de-guerre.
or...why do WE waste Our time on him? :-\ ::)
ed: or Her? ;D
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It could be a little girl?
Red Riding Hood or something.
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Back to the Topic and the Question "What will you do?".
When it comes to me I always considered any of my stock sources as "more or less" reliable, so I invested my income in the past years in real estate which brings rentals. With that and my freelancing I feel confident for my economic future.
But if stock would collapse I would have another Problem: I just love too much what I do to just stop. I simply would not be able. So I consider to build up a few different things I am already into:
- Art photography: Not much Money in there but I would continue to build up this branch of my Port and concentrate even more on RM and Print sites.
- Open up a bigger Studio for all kinds of freelance works. Actually I am currently looking for a suitable space anyhow, so it would be just a little step to open up additional income sources.
- Doing something totally different: I am e.g. a passionate cook and in my little corner of the world it would be just easy to throw a little money into the game and open up some sort of food place, even if it would be just as a investor.
- Retire if I finally hit the Lottery Jackpot.
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I have no idea, but I just wanted to be 100th poster on this thread :P
Satisfied, now I can die.
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LOL
How about ...don't die but change your name to OCD123 :D
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Oh by the way! this is not only predictions. I do happen to know a bit, " behind the scenes" so to speak. Say no more. :)
I still can't understand why you continue to waste your time with us "bunch, thats all mouth and no money" as you so charmingly put it, where you 'used to be but it gave a bad rep', but came back under a different nom-de-guerre.
or...why do WE waste Our time on him? :-\ ::)
ed: or Her? ;D
Oh well you know. Its nice to sometimes see how the other side lives. Are you uploading?
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LOL
How about ...don't die but change your name to OCD123 :D
Now see what you have done, now I have to be every 3d poster ;D
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LOL