Ok, we all recognize the technical perfection. The clean, bright, albeit somewhat flat look. The well thought out sets and compositions.

However, I would argue that above all else the secret to Mr. Arcurs success are his models.
He has mentioned on several occasions that he uses agency models and it shows.
I even remember reading on one occasion that he flew in a Russian model for a shoot.
All of his models; male, female, young & old are stunning. Who would not want these people to represent their product or company?

So how is this done? In the Los Angeles region where I am, agency's frown on their models being used for microstock. It dilutes their value.
Not to mention the additional cost of going through an agency to hire models. Ideas? Insights anyone?

Yes, Sean we all know you do OK
But think how much more 'OK' you could do if you have the same quality of models and sets that Mr. Arcurs has!

You don't need to go through traditional agencies for professional models. You can try ModelMayhem.com and seek experienced models.

I do use MM models. A lot of them are flakes and none that I have found are as good as a true pro.

Yes, Sean we all know you do OK
But think how much more 'OK' you could do if you have the same quality of models and sets that Mr. Arcurs has!

I'm not sure if "uber pretty" people would fit into all the sort of themes I cover.

Yes, paying them will help cut the flake percentage, but you still are not guaranteed that they will do well in front of the camera. A lot of profiles say 'very experienced' but when you look at the port they look stiff or only have one expression.

I have worked with real agency models (not for stock) and there is a world of difference in the posing ability and ease of expression in front of the camera. You have to experience it to really appreciate the difference it makes in your images.

Yes, Sean we all know you do OK
But think how much more 'OK' you could do if you have the same quality of models and sets that Mr. Arcurs has!

you talked about Sean like his work is minor and unsuccessful, sort of a "newbie" that need some advice, incredible how can someone talk like that about one of the most important contributors in IS! some people just don�t have sense of reality and don�t even know how to approach other! Sean doesn�t need a "lawyer" but hey sometimes I cannot be here without telling what goes in my mind  

One suggestion, stop using models and start uses actors.

Where do you go looking for actors? Willing to pose for stock??... I would think any actor wants to make it big and it would be same problem as with pro models - they'd want to be able to choose where their face appears...

A lot of profiles say 'very experienced' but when you look at the port they look stiff or only have one expression.

Yes, but if that expression is "blue steel" then you have a superstar on your hands

One suggestion, stop using models and start uses actors.

This is great advice!  All my models are "real people", but the majority are also involved in acting in local theater productions.  

And no, none of them is movie-star gorgeous like Yuri's models, but I do okay too (not as "okay" as Sean though).

I think it is very simplistic to say that Yuri's success is down to the attractiveness of his models.  That's like saying Kelly Kline's success at photographing food is mostly due to the tomato, the salmon, or the creme brulee, etc.  

When you photograph people, the people are the props, basically.  It is up to the photographer to dress them, light them, direct them, mold and shape them to get what the he or she wants.  

There are lots of wannabe photogs photographing gorgeous models for stock, and most of them are not all that successful.  In fact, most of my lowest selling images are the ones of stereotypically "beautiful" girls.

Hi Lisa!

I never meant that was the only driving force for Mr. Arcurs' success. I just meant that with all other factors being equal (lighting, location, set etc...) that the quality of the models is what puts him over the top.

I know from my own port that the handful of truly stunning models I have used outsell everything else in my port by a wide margin.

@ Luis. I know darn well who Mr. Locke is and have nothing but respect for his accomplishments.
I also know that he is capable of handling a little good hearted ribbing without getting offended.

Not really a problem Elena, since most actor are not working actors.    I post notices in acting schools in my area and have no problem filling spots. At this point I started to turn away people. Give it a try!

He-he:) Well that does makes sense then - thanks for advice!

Quote from: Graffoto on September 21, 2011, 13:14

A lot of profiles say 'very experienced' but when you look at the port they look stiff or only have one expression.

Yes, but if that expression is "blue steel" then you have a superstar on your hands

Forget "Blue Steel", I'm looking for "Magnum"

Quote from: pancaketom on September 21, 2011, 15:51

Quote from: lisafx on September 21, 2011, 14:03

Quote from: Graffoto on September 21, 2011, 13:14

A lot of profiles say 'very experienced' but when you look at the port they look stiff or only have one expression.

Yes, but if that expression is "blue steel" then you have a superstar on your hands

Forget "Blue Steel", I'm looking for "Magnum"

Imagine
You wake up in the morning and while you are digging you nose with leg big toe (best image of photodune) you see movement in you backyard and see how Chuck Noris have Pewee on you electricity cable....

I Use nothing But actors. Always have. Im in Hollywood and it's for sure that any good model will run like hell if you mention stock. If there agency finds out. Goodbye agency. But, Normally i do the dark side,the grittier stuff. I prefer crack faced old men and women, People with character . Pretty people bore . out of me and Im looking for stuff a gazillion others don't do.

And, If your good and give them something they can use you'll have more people you could ever shoot. Also, they pay you instead of you paying them. Works for me Just fine.

I gave up on MM a long time ago, Just a bunch of kids that don't Care and just wanna hook Up or pretend there in the business. And there work ethic usually stinks. My biggest sellers are about depression,anger,pain,homelessness,anxiety and fear. pretty people can't go there. Actors for me, No Brainer.

I try to do the opposite of Yuri or the others and I respect . out of them, But it's way to late to compete with that, like 5 years to late. I shoot what turns me on, The buyers will find you.

A lot of us Old Timers did this Lifestyle/Business and what I call Family Circle/Womans Day bright and cheery stuff a Long , Long Time ago By assignment mostly out of Chicago for the Ad Agencies and we made a good living doing it. Andres was the first I saw that nailed "That" look. and started what some of us lovingly called the isolation Wars. There were even contests to see who could upload more. LOL

Actors for me, The more character the better. But Im into the inside person, Not the outside. My favorite model/Actor person is 93. What a face and what a range of emotion. And it also helps when you can get your people work. Which I can do and have many times, part of the job is sharing with casting Folks.

This must be plug Yuri week. 

LOL.

Quote from: lisafx on September 21, 2011, 16:12

Quote from: pancaketom on September 21, 2011, 15:51

Quote from: lisafx on September 21, 2011, 14:03

Quote from: Graffoto on September 21, 2011, 13:14

A lot of profiles say 'very experienced' but when you look at the port they look stiff or only have one expression.

Yes, but if that expression is "blue steel" then you have a superstar on your hands

Forget "Blue Steel", I'm looking for "Magnum"

Imagine
You wake up in the morning and while you are digging you nose with leg big toe (best image of photodune) you see movement in you backyard and see how Chuck Noris have Pewee on you electricity cable....

Can someone translate for me ?

imho it's not about them being 'professional', it's just that one of Yuri's greatest and most important skill is picking models, it's spot on all the time, whether they are pro or not. Notice how altho being very-very attractive they are seldom the glamourous type, or at least they aren't presented that way.

I think the most important ascpetc of hiring payed pro models is that you can go on shooting forever, treating the whole thing as job. If they are just ppl you knoe, you are usually restricted to 'when they have some spare time for this'

Someone once told me that hookers make great models. Lots of acting experience, turn up on time and do exactly what they are told. I haven't tested this theory but I can see what it has going for it.

I'm not big on "professional" models for a couple of reasons....

1) They are expensive.  Everyone's portfolio is different but based on the survey that Leaf posted - if the average image earns $10 per year, then figure in model cost, studio cost, equipment cost, and your time.  How many sellable images are you going to get out of that shoot?  Maybe 10 or 20 or (if duplicates don't get refused) 30?  So break down the cost:

an inexpensive professional model - $60 for a two hour shoot
studio space (rental if you don't have one) - $60 for two hour shoot

Without figuring in cost of equipment or your time shooting and post processing, that's $120....for 30 images, you're at $4 per image already in costs.  Ron Chapple wrote Microstock is unsustainable - well, yeah, if you're going to have a team of 4 people and you're going to pay for professional models, you aren't going to break even in this game for a Looooooooonnnnngggg time.

2) I have had models that call themselves "professional" tell me "just let me do my thing, let me be creative so you can shoot me".  That's not what it's about - it's about the photographer being creative and setting up the shot and conducting the shoot.  Collaboration is great but less experienced models, in my opinion, are willing to listen better.

Actors are a terrific option but don't count out inexperienced models.  I'm currently working with a group here in my city where a photographer built a relationship with a young woman (21 years old) who is started a "modelling agency".  Basically it's her friends that are interested in modeling, and then they got their friends involved.  So here's the situation:

Photographer put together a group on a social networking site that puts on workshops and shootouts for other photographers.

The model agency put together a group on the same social networking site for aspiring models that are interested in modeling

Photographer uses the models from the model agency for the shootouts and workshops.  Photographer sells these workshops and shootouts for a nominal fee to other photographers (in some instances as low as $10 to participate in the shoot) and the models/model agency get a cut of the money.  Models work under a contract and the photographer provides all participants with the standard Getty release (the release that iStock recommends).  It's a win-win for all involved and the economics make sense - 30 sellable, released images for 30 cents each.  Are you going to get unique images?  No, but this isn't RM Traditional stock - this is RF microstock.

I was involved in a shoot on Monday - 3 models with assistant for 3 hours.  My cost was $15.  I was involved in another photo shoot last night.  2 models for an hour and a half and my cost was $10.  I shot 177 images.  If I get 10 usable (5 images for each model), then my cost is 10 cents per image.

This is microstock, make it economical and make it work for you.  If you want to pay professional models and create images that have a ton of overhead behind them, then submit them to a RM agency where you can recoup the cost.

Build relationships.  If you find good models on Model Mayhem, ask them to recommend their friends.  Get out and get involved in the community.  There are a ton of opportunities out there if you get to know people.

I'm not big on "professional" models for a couple of reasons....

1) They are expensive.  Everyone's portfolio is different but based on the survey that Leaf posted - if the average image earns $10 per year, then figure in model cost, studio cost, equipment cost, and your time.  How many sellable images are you going to get out of that shoot?  Maybe 10 or 20 or (if duplicates don't get refused) 30?  So break down the cost:

an inexpensive professional model - $60 for a two hour shoot
studio space (rental if you don't have one) - $60 for two hour shoot

Without figuring in cost of equipment or your time shooting and post processing, that's $120....for 30 images, you're at $4 per image already in costs.  Ron Chapple wrote Microstock is unsustainable - well, yeah, if you're going to have a team of 4 people and you're going to pay for professional models, you aren't going to break even in this game for a Looooooooonnnnngggg time.

2) I have had models that call themselves "professional" tell me "just let me do my thing, let me be creative so you can shoot me".  That's not what it's about - it's about the photographer being creative and setting up the shot and conducting the shoot.  Collaboration is great but less experienced models, in my opinion, are willing to listen better.

Actors are a terrific option but don't count out inexperienced models.  I'm currently working with a group here in my city where a photographer built a relationship with a young woman (21 years old) who is started a "modelling agency".  Basically it's her friends that are interested in modeling, and then they got their friends involved.  So here's the situation:

Photographer put together a group on a social networking site that puts on workshops and shootouts for other photographers.

The model agency put together a group on the same social networking site for aspiring models that are interested in modeling

Photographer uses the models from the model agency for the shootouts and workshops.  Photographer sells these workshops and shootouts for a nominal fee to other photographers (in some instances as low as $10 to participate in the shoot) and the models/model agency get a cut of the money.  Models work under a contract and the photographer provides all participants with the standard Getty release (the release that iStock recommends).  It's a win-win for all involved and the economics make sense - 30 sellable, released images for 30 cents each.  Are you going to get unique images?  No, but this isn't RM Traditional stock - this is RF microstock.

I was involved in a shoot on Monday - 3 models with assistant for 3 hours.  My cost was $15.  I was involved in another photo shoot last night.  2 models for an hour and a half and my cost was $10.  I shot 177 images.  If I get 10 usable (5 images for each model), then my cost is 10 cents per image.

This is microstock, make it economical and make it work for you.  If you want to pay professional models and create images that have a ton of overhead behind them, then submit them to a RM agency where you can recoup the cost.

Build relationships.  If you find good models on Model Mayhem, ask them to recommend their friends.  Get out and get involved in the community.  There are a ton of opportunities out there if you get to know people.

Couldn't agree More Ed.

Joseph, why . are you worrying about micro stock? Your port is way too good. Why aren't you shooting for Vogue yet?

For what it's worth I agree with you totally. If you look at the more traditional stock agencies they use agency models. I assisted a fashion / stock shooter, Getty, Corbis, no micro, and she always hired models from agencies in Los Angeles. They are on time, they work, they provide experience, they produce the goods, and they look great on film. MM models, flake, don't know how to model, expect the photog to micro pose their every move, in my experience, they just don't look as good, or bring much talent to the table. I'm sure there are exceptions but that's why their on MM and not working for Elite. It's other stuff too, clothing stylists, makeup stylists, it all shows in the final product. I cant tell you how many times gorgeous women show up to a shoot with terrible clothes that are not ironed, thinking that the photographer can take out wrinkles in photoshop. These girls want to model and have no fashion sense or posing ability whatsoever. If I could afford it, I would use nothing but agency models.

Guess I will have to cancel my photo session with Gong Li now and look for regular lady...