MicrostockGroup

Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Stock Discussion => Topic started by: DOP on October 15, 2021, 07:02

Title: This month's sales
Post by: DOP on October 15, 2021, 07:02
How are your sales going this month?
Mine are not good at all (only on SS and Wirestock)
I keep my expectations very low and then it's hard to be disappointed.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: For Real on October 15, 2021, 07:25
In this business the reviews are slow and the pay is low that is how we go (Rap song)... 8)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Pacesetter on October 15, 2021, 07:39
Very slow all month until just a couple of days ago and then picked up a lot, in particular Shutterstock.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: whosvegas on October 20, 2021, 06:26
Normal month on SS
AS is slow

A week ago, a nice $ 6 SOD (last month my first EL on SS)  :)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: thijsdegraaf on October 20, 2021, 06:43
Small port. Shutter: Normal  Adobe: Slow  Alamy: Dead  :)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Mantis on October 20, 2021, 08:22
BAD month.  Stock down, Elements down, DP 1/2 normal, DT pathetic.  Only one up is Alamy...so far at $240. P5 is down 25%, too.  Just cyclical and I am in the trough.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: cascoly on October 20, 2021, 15:08
poor month

compared to 4 month average:
AS, Canva slightly down
SS down 30%
wirestock up a bit
p5, alamy 0

overall projection for month down about 25% after above average for last few months
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: hellou on October 20, 2021, 19:37
last few months
Adobestock x 4  :D
Shutterstock -40%  >:(
Alamy +-0
Dreamstime -20%
istock -90%  :o
123rf +-0
Indivstock +20%
Depositphotos +10%
Pixta +-0
canstockphoto +-0
Panthermedia +10%
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Lowls on October 21, 2021, 03:27
Adobe - dead.
ShutterS - fits and blips.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on October 21, 2021, 08:20
Generally, is there any chance of giving a rough idea of number of dls or income we are talking about here? It is really hard to know what to think when someone says "50% down on SS" and it could be the difference between 2dls and 1dl or 20000dls and 10000dls. Or 500% increase because of a single random extended/ enhanced license. Of course no one has to provide any info at all, but seems a bit pointless without this context.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: DOP on October 21, 2021, 09:24
Generally, is there any chance of giving a rough idea of number of dls or income we are talking about here? It is really hard to know what to think when someone says "50% down on SS" and it could be the difference between 2dls and 1dl or 20000dls and 10000dls. Or 500% increase because of a single random extended/ enhanced license. Of course no one has to provide any info at all, but seems a bit pointless without this context.

Good idea.
You start.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on October 21, 2021, 09:36
October 01 - 21, 2021 vs. 2020

shutterstock:
minus 26 downloads
minus $61,15

AS
plus 21 downloads
plus $85,18
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: thijsdegraaf on October 21, 2021, 12:18
Generally, is there any chance of giving a rough idea of number of dls or income we are talking about here? It is really hard to know what to think when someone says "50% down on SS" and it could be the difference between 2dls and 1dl or 20000dls and 10000dls. Or 500% increase because of a single random extended/ enhanced license. Of course no one has to provide any info at all, but seems a bit pointless without this context.

On the shutterstock forum, I had a schedule where I kept track of my earnings from photos of my small port on Shutterstock each month.
I had made that after June 2020 to see if it was still worth uploading.
Shutterstockforum felt a bit like family to me. I've never had any negative comments about it either.
I hesitate to do the same here, I don't know if I'm doing anyone but you a favor with it.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Firn on October 21, 2021, 13:20
Today sums up my whole month on SS pretty accurately: Had 50 sales today and still only a single digit earning amount.  ::)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Pacesetter on October 21, 2021, 15:20
Sales have plummeted this week on AS and SS.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: SVH on October 21, 2021, 15:41
Dreamstime, stable: no sales as usual
Alamy, stable: No sales as usual
Shutterstock, stable:  a few sales
IStock, stable: somewhat less than a few sales
Adobe: Good in the beginning of the month, this week terrible  :-\
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: SVH on October 21, 2021, 15:59
Good idea.
You start.
;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: OM on October 21, 2021, 19:04
Generally, is there any chance of giving a rough idea of number of dls or income we are talking about here? It is really hard to know what to think when someone says "50% down on SS" and it could be the difference between 2dls and 1dl or 20000dls and 10000dls. Or 500% increase because of a single random extended/ enhanced license. Of course no one has to provide any info at all, but seems a bit pointless without this context.

Yup true. Very small player with <1,000 images on SS. Been there since 2012, no model released stuff and almost no editorial. Fair proportion of food. In 2014-2016 (500 images) had normal monthly sales of $300-$400 with around 400 dls/month. Portfolio static since 2018 at <1,000 images (noticed that new work didn't sell so stopped uploading). Current dls running at 150-200/month until very recently and now dipped below 150/month. Currently at just above payout minimum of $35 but often get SODs to bring me back into the $70-$100+/month range. If no SODs this month then expecting WME of <$50 but ja never knows!

Almost same port at Adobe. Sales this month to date ~35% of sales(dls) at SS and 50% of $$ at SS. Had free PS CC and LR at AS for the last 2 years (that's worth $200+) and if I start uploading again, it will be exclusively to AS and not to SS...the $0.10 sales p*ss me off too much. At SS I'm going to let it bleed out! No effort until no reward. Then I'll delete the port (or maybe sooner if I conclude that their 'corporatism' irritates me too much).
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: thijsdegraaf on October 22, 2021, 02:24
Generally, is there any chance of giving a rough idea of number of dls or income we are talking about here? It is really hard to know what to think when someone says "50% down on SS" and it could be the difference between 2dls and 1dl or 20000dls and 10000dls. Or 500% increase because of a single random extended/ enhanced license. Of course no one has to provide any info at all, but seems a bit pointless without this context.


On the shutterstock forum, I had a schedule where I kept track of my earnings from photos of my small port on Shutterstock each month.
I had made that after June 2020 to see if it was still worth uploading.
Shutterstockforum felt a bit like family to me. I've never had any negative comments about it either.
I hesitate to do the same here, I don't know if I'm doing anyone but you a favor with it.


More photos than OM. But I know he is a much better photographer. I'll add my schedule too, why not.
I photographed for my website (garden, nature, especially insects)  http://www.tuin-thijs.com/indexengels.htm (http://www.tuin-thijs.com/indexengels.htm) . Started around 2000. The first years a small profit due to spontaneous requests for advertising links for a year. After the rise of facebook, blogs, vlogs, they have disappeared and I have to pay my provider. Websites from that time have almost all disappeared.
Didn't buy new equipment for Stock, have an old adobe editing program.
Started Shutterstock at the end of 2019. Don't use old photos. Until May, earnings regularly matched the number of photos uploaded. After May it became less. Then three months without uploading. And photos uploaded on Alamy and Adobe.
Unfortunately, due to corona, I didn't go on holiday and photographed near home. A lot of macro photos of insects, flowers. Not very commercial, but that's just my hobby. I am retired and consider it a cheap, healthy hobby because I often take the bike.
The number of sales increases slightly per month on average. Have over 2100 photos now. At Adobe I have far fewer photos and about $85. Received my first $50 at Alamy, but it's very quiet there now. This month on Shutter today: 43 for 13.52
My Stock photos are listed on the front page of my website.

Just like OM I have considered quitting Shutterstock. But as long as I enjoy shooting and the earnings are higher than Adobe I will keep going.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: For Real on October 22, 2021, 08:48
that's really good! You're moving in the right direction with promise.  8)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Uncle Pete on October 24, 2021, 10:48
Today sums up my whole month on SS pretty accurately: Had 50 sales today and still only a single digit earning amount.  ::)

Single digit from 50 sales. I don't understand. What single digit? Like under $10 you mean? WOW
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Firn on October 24, 2021, 11:01
Today sums up my whole month on SS pretty accurately: Had 50 sales today and still only a single digit earning amount.  ::)

Single digit from 50 sales. I don't understand. What single digit? Like under $10 you mean? WOW
Yes, under $10 for 50 sales was what I meant. Sorry, English isn't my first language, maybe you don't say it like this in English.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on October 24, 2021, 12:49
...Had 50 sales today and still only a single digit earning amount....

Yes, under $10 for 50 sales was what I meant. Sorry, English isn't my first language, maybe you don't say it like this in English.

I'm guessing it was less your expression than disbelief that the total could be so low :)

You were very close - it's typically "single digits" plural - as in "Had 50 sales today and earnings were only in the single digits"

Margin optimization (Shutterstock-speak for cutting contributor's royalties) has meant:

50 new subscription sales at the current 10 cent minimum = $5
50 old subscription sales at the old rate of 38 cents each = $19
(it would even have been $12.50 at the starter royalty of 25 cents)

Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: aphasia on October 24, 2021, 12:55
My sales are almost £200 more than last month so far, last month was my worst month of the year to date.......
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Annie on October 24, 2021, 17:46
Today sums up my whole month on SS pretty accurately: Had 50 sales today and still only a single digit earning amount.  ::)

Single digit from 50 sales. I don't understand. What single digit? Like under $10 you mean? WOW
Yes, under $10 for 50 sales was what I meant. Sorry, English isn't my first language, maybe you don't say it like this in English.

Firn, congratulations on your high number of DLs, but sorry about the RPD :-(

One thing that would be interesting to compare, is your RPD (total sales divided by total number of DLs) for this month vs Oct 2020 and Oct 2019 to see what is really happening. That may be an interesting exercise in itself.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Annie on October 24, 2021, 17:50
On a completely separate note, I stopped uploading to SS after the new rates came in, but then I noticed something happening in January this year.*** I started getting a lot of really high photo SODs.  Ranging from $85 to $140 each. Some much higher than even in the 'good ol days'.

Discussions with others led me to believe that SS have divided their pricing into two different categories: bargain-basement vs premium. And as many others started to get these high SODs starting in Jan this year, then one explanation may be that they have opened up their whole database to these premium buyers (which I believe was not available to us mere mortals before) Long story.

Getting more large SODs downloads, of course, depends on a number of factors - size, quality, themes, etc. And of course, there will always be the isolated cases of selling a crapstock-small pic for a high amount, but if you get a lot of large SODS, and more data to assess, then you start to see a trend towards better, larger photos.

Overall my photo sales - both RPI and RPD - have not been affected this year on SS and still perform very well. For me its when they brought video subs in May 2020 that hit me hard. But once again this is all about what you shoot. There are others out there who still do very well with clip sales. But they have completely different ports to me.

I decided to target the internet video buyers when I first started video in 2016. It was a new emerging market and great for a while but now its come back to bite me in the foot, as agencies (not just SS) decided that these buyers have a much lower price point. (And that includes P5).

So, it all comes back to what you shoot.

ETA *** The large photos SODs have been continuing all year. There were less during the summer-slump months when big ad agencies and buyers are not around, but picking up again now.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Uncle Pete on October 24, 2021, 19:13
Today sums up my whole month on SS pretty accurately: Had 50 sales today and still only a single digit earning amount.  ::)

Single digit from 50 sales. I don't understand. What single digit? Like under $10 you mean? WOW
Yes, under $10 for 50 sales was what I meant. Sorry, English isn't my first language, maybe you don't say it like this in English.

Thanks for explaining, it was so low, I thought I didn't understand what you meant. That's low! On the other hand 50 sales in a day is pretty good quality, and marketable images, when you get that kind of demand.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on October 25, 2021, 03:46
Today sums up my whole month on SS pretty accurately: Had 50 sales today and still only a single digit earning amount.  ::)

I can't manage 50 downloads a day anymore.

But I once compared the difference between the levels.

100 downloads level 1 vs 100 downloads level 5.

If you take the percentage of sales to $0.10, it's like this:
Level 1: 80 x $0.10
Level 5: 26 x $0.10
So there is a clear difference between the levels.

But another comparison causes disillusionment:
Level 1: 80 x ≤ $0.20
Level 5: 72 x ≤ $0.20

Therefore, it is hardly surprising if you do not earn $10 with 50 downloads.

Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Firn on October 25, 2021, 06:24
50 sales a day also isn't normal for me, I wish!  :P I think my average is more like 30 downloads a day on weekdays, but Halloween is giving me  a boost, because I sell a lot of dog costume photos.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Uncle Pete on October 25, 2021, 10:55
Today sums up my whole month on SS pretty accurately: Had 50 sales today and still only a single digit earning amount.  ::)

I can't manage 50 downloads a day anymore.

But I once compared the difference between the levels.

100 downloads level 1 vs 100 downloads level 5.

If you take the percentage of sales to $0.10, it's like this:
Level 1: 80 x $0.10
Level 5: 26 x $0.10
So there is a clear difference between the levels.

But another comparison causes disillusionment:
Level 1: 80 x ≤ $0.20
Level 5: 72 x ≤ $0.20

Therefore, it is hardly surprising if you do not earn $10 with 50 downloads.

Not sure I understand those numbers? Here are some of mine, which do not include any of my racing images:

Oldest 100 no racing 2009 RPD $0.55
Newest 100 no racing 2019  RPD .68
Newest 100 no racing 2020  RPD .36
Newest 100 2021 no racing  RPD .16
Top 11 images, all time No Racing RPD .71 (because #12 was a racing image)

Since 2021 isn't over, I can wait, but if your point was, we make less now, pretty much, no matter what level, mine are showing that's true.

The easiest part was taking my first 100 images that have been on SS "forever" not saying they are any good.  :-[
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on October 25, 2021, 11:28
Today sums up my whole month on SS pretty accurately: Had 50 sales today and still only a single digit earning amount.  ::)

I can't manage 50 downloads a day anymore.

But I once compared the difference between the levels.

100 downloads level 1 vs 100 downloads level 5.

If you take the percentage of sales to $0.10, it's like this:
Level 1: 80 x $0.10
Level 5: 26 x $0.10
So there is a clear difference between the levels.

But another comparison causes disillusionment:
Level 1: 80 x ≤ $0.20
Level 5: 72 x ≤ $0.20

Therefore, it is hardly surprising if you do not earn $10 with 50 downloads.

Not sure I understand those numbers? Here are some of mine, which do not include any of my racing images:

Oldest 100 no racing 2009 RPD $0.55
Newest 100 no racing 2019  RPD .68
Newest 100 no racing 2020  RPD .36
Newest 100 2021 no racing  RPD .16
Top 11 images, all time No Racing RPD .71 (because #12 was a racing image)

Since 2021 isn't over, I can wait, but if your point was, we make less now, pretty much, no matter what level, mine are showing that's true.

The easiest part was taking my first 100 images that have been on SS "forever" not saying they are any good.  :-[

I only wanted to point out, that even at level 5 more than 70% of the downloads are below $0,20. And this can lead to earnings below $10 with 50 downloads - as in Firn's example.

Yes, we make less now. But at the same time I have to admit that my RPD in October 2019 - before the introduction of the new earnings structure - was miserable, too.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Uncle Pete on October 25, 2021, 13:38
Today sums up my whole month on SS pretty accurately: Had 50 sales today and still only a single digit earning amount.  ::)

I can't manage 50 downloads a day anymore.

But I once compared the difference between the levels.

100 downloads level 1 vs 100 downloads level 5.

If you take the percentage of sales to $0.10, it's like this:
Level 1: 80 x $0.10
Level 5: 26 x $0.10
So there is a clear difference between the levels.

But another comparison causes disillusionment:
Level 1: 80 x ≤ $0.20
Level 5: 72 x ≤ $0.20

Therefore, it is hardly surprising if you do not earn $10 with 50 downloads.

Not sure I understand those numbers? Here are some of mine, which do not include any of my racing images:

Oldest 100 no racing 2009 RPD $0.55
Newest 100 no racing 2019  RPD .68
Newest 100 no racing 2020  RPD .36
Newest 100 2021 no racing  RPD .16
Top 11 images, all time No Racing RPD .71 (because #12 was a racing image)

Since 2021 isn't over, I can wait, but if your point was, we make less now, pretty much, no matter what level, mine are showing that's true.

The easiest part was taking my first 100 images that have been on SS "forever" not saying they are any good.  :-[

I only wanted to point out, that even at level 5 more than 70% of the downloads are below $0,20. And this can lead to earnings below $10 with 50 downloads - as in Firn's example.

Yes, we make less now. But at the same time I have to admit that my RPD in October 2019 - before the introduction of the new earnings structure - was miserable, too.

(https://i.postimg.cc/tRFt4dt9/thumb_up_40_color.gif)

And yes I was more amazed at how little for 50 downloads, than anything doubting. My sales for files by upload year, isn't totally fair, but it does reflect what new images are making for me. This year, making less money, my RPD is .64 up until October. And I make about half of what I did before the Margin optimization.

My favorite line from the company, Stan was, how we weren't going to see lower income. On the other hand, there are people who do just as well as before, I'm not one of them, and I get less downloads, plus they are for less money.

I liked Annie's theory that some of the images or some people are now included in the premium, which makes for some higher dollar downloads. I guess I have some of those, which keeps the RPD up, even with the net income being down?

I think it's time to go start dinner, mow, do socks, or something else. All this ciphering (math can be simple if you have enough fingers and toes) makes me nothing but tired.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on October 25, 2021, 14:44
Today sums up my whole month on SS pretty accurately: Had 50 sales today and still only a single digit earning amount.  ::)

I can't manage 50 downloads a day anymore.

But I once compared the difference between the levels.

100 downloads level 1 vs 100 downloads level 5.

If you take the percentage of sales to $0.10, it's like this:
Level 1: 80 x $0.10
Level 5: 26 x $0.10
So there is a clear difference between the levels.

But another comparison causes disillusionment:
Level 1: 80 x ≤ $0.20
Level 5: 72 x ≤ $0.20

Therefore, it is hardly surprising if you do not earn $10 with 50 downloads.

Not sure I understand those numbers? Here are some of mine, which do not include any of my racing images:

Oldest 100 no racing 2009 RPD $0.55
Newest 100 no racing 2019  RPD .68
Newest 100 no racing 2020  RPD .36
Newest 100 2021 no racing  RPD .16
Top 11 images, all time No Racing RPD .71 (because #12 was a racing image)

Since 2021 isn't over, I can wait, but if your point was, we make less now, pretty much, no matter what level, mine are showing that's true.

The easiest part was taking my first 100 images that have been on SS "forever" not saying they are any good.  :-[

I only wanted to point out, that even at level 5 more than 70% of the downloads are below $0,20. And this can lead to earnings below $10 with 50 downloads - as in Firn's example.

Yes, we make less now. But at the same time I have to admit that my RPD in October 2019 - before the introduction of the new earnings structure - was miserable, too.

(https://i.postimg.cc/tRFt4dt9/thumb_up_40_color.gif)

On the other hand, there are people who do just as well as before, I'm not one of them, and I get less downloads, plus they are for less money.


I know exactly this problem very well, Pete! I know, what you are Talking about!
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: pancaketom on October 25, 2021, 16:01
I wonder if they did some creative accounting timing to bring a heap of big SODs to January so that they could take a much higher percentage. I certainly wouldn't put it past them anymore. That would be nice if they had opened up the larger value sales to the little people, as at .10 a download one big SOD can make a month for all but the highest level sellers.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: YadaYadaYada on October 26, 2021, 06:59
How are your sales going this month?
Mine are not good at all (only on SS and Wirestock)
I keep my expectations very low and then it's hard to be disappointed.
I'd have low expectations if my main model was a dolls head.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Pacesetter on October 27, 2021, 04:52
Big EOTM slump followed by a smaller MOTM slump hot on the heels of a BOTM slump.

Lot of slumpin' going on here.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: DOP on October 27, 2021, 05:11
Big EOTM slump followed by a smaller MOTM slump hot on the heels of a BOTM slump.

Lot of slumpin' going on here.

LOL  ;D
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: HalfFull on October 27, 2021, 05:45
I guess it depends on what you have to sell. For me, this is one of my busiest times of year.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: whosvegas on October 27, 2021, 07:53
The last weeks, everything is complete dead.
Also not much uploads

Is there something happen?
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Jaggy on October 27, 2021, 12:06
On SS, downloads are pretty good but RPD is poor. On AS, downloads are poor but RPD is pretty good.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: DOP on October 27, 2021, 13:56
On a completely separate note, I stopped uploading to SS after the new rates came in, but then I noticed something happening in January this year.*** I started getting a lot of really high photo SODs.  Ranging from $85 to $140 each. Some much higher than even in the 'good ol days'.

Discussions with others led me to believe that SS have divided their pricing into two different categories: bargain-basement vs premium. And as many others started to get these high SODs starting in Jan this year, then one explanation may be that they have opened up their whole database to these premium buyers (which I believe was not available to us mere mortals before) Long story.

Getting more large SODs downloads, of course, depends on a number of factors - size, quality, themes, etc. And of course, there will always be the isolated cases of selling a crapstock-small pic for a high amount, but if you get a lot of large SODS, and more data to assess, then you start to see a trend towards better, larger photos.

Overall my photo sales - both RPI and RPD - have not been affected this year on SS and still perform very well. For me its when they brought video subs in May 2020 that hit me hard. But once again this is all about what you shoot. There are others out there who still do very well with clip sales. But they have completely different ports to me.

I decided to target the internet video buyers when I first started video in 2016. It was a new emerging market and great for a while but now its come back to bite me in the foot, as agencies (not just SS) decided that these buyers have a much lower price point. (And that includes P5).

So, it all comes back to what you shoot.

ETA *** The large photos SODs have been continuing all year. There were less during the summer-slump months when big ad agencies and buyers are not around, but picking up again now.

Thanks for sharing this experience Annie.
It's an interesting analysis from one of the 'high fliers' out there and makes a fine counterbalance with regard to the mostly negative experiences of SS sales I read elsewhere.

Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: DOP on October 29, 2021, 08:08
My microstock sales are crawling with broken legs towards the weekend where I expect them to be hospitalised until the end of the month.

However, I've had my first sale on Arcangel (on a published novel). I have a portfolio of about 100 photos on there (excluding simple scans of authentic vintage photos) and have been slowly uploading for around a year.
Their rejection rate of recent months has been discouraging (a general trend from what I have read), but this is encouraging, so I'm going to put some more effort in.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: For Real on October 29, 2021, 12:34
One word to described my October sales --"catastrophe"   :-\
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Annie on October 29, 2021, 14:52
On a completely separate note, I stopped uploading to SS after the new rates came in, but then I noticed something happening in January this year.*** I started getting a lot of really high photo SODs.  Ranging from $85 to $140 each. Some much higher than even in the 'good ol days'.

Discussions with others led me to believe that SS have divided their pricing into two different categories: bargain-basement vs premium. And as many others started to get these high SODs starting in Jan this year, then one explanation may be that they have opened up their whole database to these premium buyers (which I believe was not available to us mere mortals before) Long story.

Getting more large SODs downloads, of course, depends on a number of factors - size, quality, themes, etc. And of course, there will always be the isolated cases of selling a crapstock-small pic for a high amount, but if you get a lot of large SODS, and more data to assess, then you start to see a trend towards better, larger photos.

Overall my photo sales - both RPI and RPD - have not been affected this year on SS and still perform very well. For me its when they brought video subs in May 2020 that hit me hard. But once again this is all about what you shoot. There are others out there who still do very well with clip sales. But they have completely different ports to me.

I decided to target the internet video buyers when I first started video in 2016. It was a new emerging market and great for a while but now its come back to bite me in the foot, as agencies (not just SS) decided that these buyers have a much lower price point. (And that includes P5).

So, it all comes back to what you shoot.

ETA *** The large photos SODs have been continuing all year. There were less during the summer-slump months when big ad agencies and buyers are not around, but picking up again now.

Thanks for sharing this experience Annie.
It's an interesting analysis from one of the 'high fliers' out there and makes a fine counterbalance with regard to the mostly negative experiences of SS sales I read elsewhere.

Thanks Deb. Thats really sweet of you to say so. I don't know how much of a high flyer I am. lol.  I am not anymore special than anyone else here, I just learnt along the way what sells on microstock and small ways that make a big difference on how to provide new files that are not well covered. Something that is within the reach of anyone here.

Anyway, if you need more positive reinforcement then I am pleased to say that October this year has been really good for me.  Sales and income on AS have been one of the best months there that I have had for a long time. SS is doing well. Both photos and videos - RPD and total income is good. My overall video sales have been great. Plus I sold quite a few big commission ones ($50+) on all 3 video agencies, AS, P5 and SS.

I always love October. It means the end of the summer slump period. The buyers are back!!
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Pacesetter on October 29, 2021, 19:05
One word to described my October sales --"catastrophe"   :-\

For real, For Real?
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: For Real on October 29, 2021, 19:44
One word to described my October sales --"catastrophe"   :-\

For real, For Real?

Sadly, yes. I will make less than I made in Oct 2014. Big drop for me. So much for adding more inventory.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: DOP on October 30, 2021, 01:11
On a completely separate note, I stopped uploading to SS after the new rates came in, but then I noticed something happening in January this year.*** I started getting a lot of really high photo SODs.  Ranging from $85 to $140 each. Some much higher than even in the 'good ol days'.

Discussions with others led me to believe that SS have divided their pricing into two different categories: bargain-basement vs premium. And as many others started to get these high SODs starting in Jan this year, then one explanation may be that they have opened up their whole database to these premium buyers (which I believe was not available to us mere mortals before) Long story.

Getting more large SODs downloads, of course, depends on a number of factors - size, quality, themes, etc. And of course, there will always be the isolated cases of selling a crapstock-small pic for a high amount, but if you get a lot of large SODS, and more data to assess, then you start to see a trend towards better, larger photos.

Overall my photo sales - both RPI and RPD - have not been affected this year on SS and still perform very well. For me its when they brought video subs in May 2020 that hit me hard. But once again this is all about what you shoot. There are others out there who still do very well with clip sales. But they have completely different ports to me.

I decided to target the internet video buyers when I first started video in 2016. It was a new emerging market and great for a while but now its come back to bite me in the foot, as agencies (not just SS) decided that these buyers have a much lower price point. (And that includes P5).

So, it all comes back to what you shoot.

ETA *** The large photos SODs have been continuing all year. There were less during the summer-slump months when big ad agencies and buyers are not around, but picking up again now.

Thanks for sharing this experience Annie.
It's an interesting analysis from one of the 'high fliers' out there and makes a fine counterbalance with regard to the mostly negative experiences of SS sales I read elsewhere.

Thanks Deb. Thats really sweet of you to say so. I don't know how much of a high flyer I am. lol.  I am not anymore special than anyone else here, I just learnt along the way what sells on microstock and small ways that make a big difference on how to provide new files that are not well covered. Something that is within the reach of anyone here.

Anyway, if you need more positive reinforcement then I am pleased to say that October this year has been really good for me.  Sales and income on AS have been one of the best months there that I have had for a long time. SS is doing well. Both photos and videos - RPD and total income is good. My overall video sales have been great. Plus I sold quite a few big commission ones ($50+) on all 3 video agencies, AS, P5 and SS.

I always love October. It means the end of the summer slump period. The buyers are back!!

Annie, you remind me of Mihai (who I know is also on this forum).  Neither of you ever sing your own praises, but you are both I feel exceptionally talented.
In both cases, your work is a joy to behold.
It's no wonder you are successful (combined with good keywording of course)  :)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Annie on October 30, 2021, 04:32
Deb, you have thoroughly embarrassed me . But let me try to explain.

First of all, if we are modest its because we know you dont have to be talented to do well in microstock. You just have to know the ropes.

The other thing is that people like Mihai, myself, Doug Jensen, and remember Iain Campbell with the great model release video port? - are just a few people that come to mind. The common thing is that we all started about the same time - around 2012 to 2013. Why is this important? For one thing, it was a great time to start. There was still quite a bit of competition back in those days, which is important because you need that in order to keep upping your game.

On the other hand, the people who started before us were used to easy street. Back in the beginning when a good stock pic went to the top of the search - it stayed there (forever) depending solely on how many dls it had. So, when things got tough, a lot of them were not willing to change.

When we came along, was the time SS first changed their algorithm and boy did that hurt a lot of people. But the newcomers like us, learnt from it. Also, I remember having all these arguments with Lauren at the time about what sold and what didn't. I started getting 1,000+ DLs on SS a month, and he was trailing behind me, but we still had these arguments. Long story. The older group were not willing to change.

The other thing about the people I know who started then and did well, was we learnt from reviewers rejections. They were even tougher back then, and it was another thing that made or broke you.

And thirdly, we played to our strengths, and we got better and better at knowing how to use them for microstock. Mihai of course is an engineer and brilliant at technical stuff, I come from a business and graphic design background, Iain started off as a model and then learnt video from one of the top video contributors in the industry at the time. Doug had a strong background in video.

...

So, the question is, can it still be done again if you start today? I know its getting more and more difficult.  SS pulling the rug out of people's feet with their rates restructure has made it even worse. But there is still money to be made with new uploads, and ways to get around all the low subs I have found. And it all comes back to what you shoot, and how to be just that bit different to the rest of the crowd.

So my advice in a nutshell: Play to your strengths, always check with what's already on the database, don't shoot what everyone's shooting, keep learning, keep improving your skills, keep upping your game, and do research. In fact there's heaps and heaps of subject matter that I find every day that is popular on social media and not well covered on the microstock databases.**

And dont listen to all the complaints. It will bring you down. Productivity and negativity don't go well together.

And finally, always remember you are not competing against a million other contributors. You are only competing with those who shoot the same subject matter as you - or rather, those who have the same keywords as you. Puts it all in perspective then.



ETA: ** This is important because advertisers know they have to follow social media trends to sell their products to them - and we (as the stock providers) are there to provide them with that content. NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND! lol

Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: tätarätä on October 30, 2021, 06:20
On the other hand, the people who started before us were used to easy street. Back in the beginning when a good stock pic went to the top of the search - it stayed there (forever) depending solely on how many dls it had.
No it wasn't. It startet going downwards early.
Beginning 2008 at the 3 big agencies RPI was good.
A few years latter going exclusive with istock my RPI was even getting better.
But actually it was going downwards from the beginning.
It was easy to see at a simple excel sheet. Just compare how older monthly uploads performs against newer uploads in the first months and years after upload.
The newer uploads mostly didn't get the sale volume like older uploads and did not sell that long.
Mostly there is even a continuing trend over the years.
At 2020 my RPI (year) at Adobe Stock was $0,7. At 2008 at FT my RPI (year) was about $2.
This trend was clear since about 2010.
My RPI (year) at istock exclusivity was about $9 at 2012. I guess it would be around $3 nowadays.
Nowadays the situation is like this - average images at microstock still sell at lower RPI compared to 10 years ago.
Averages images at istock exclusive probably don't sell well. Premium images at istock exclusive probably will sell well. If you want to keep your income level. Produce more images at micro, or produce better images for mid stock, macro.
Producing at the same level your income will be lower than now in a few years.
Still the same game as it was the last 10 years.
If you are just starting, your income will grow for about 3 years. Now matter how good or bad your are.
After the first 3 years it depends on your 3 years upload volume and quality.
Just keeping the level means lower income year after year.

Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: everest on October 30, 2021, 13:16
Spot on explanation on what micro is all about. Nowadays only terrain for amateur photographers that really don't care too much if they make 3000$ or 500$ a year but once you factor in time, props or gas or equipment the actually loose money but they like the micro game. For pros most have already gone to greener pastures but there are still some that keep going because of huge ports or because the live in a place where live is a bargain.

In 2012 I was making 3$/month/photo at Istock exclusive. Nowadays 10 times less. I rarely upload now unless when I shoot video aerials then I take some photos and from time to time I upload those. But if I take rpi it is really not worth my time anymore. You have to be a very efficient machine and very careful with your expenses if you still want to play the micro card. As suggested I think it is much wiser move to medium or macro stock. The days where you could have many thousands of downloads for a top file or hundreds of licenses for a "regular ones" are over.

Micro is surely not dead as more creative files are downloaded as ever but there are so many players from free to amateurs that are happy with a few hundred dollars a month or less that starting today would be silly as there are so many more routes in photography that give you better revenue streams, similar as when the micro game started.

On the other hand, the people who started before us were used to easy street. Back in the beginning when a good stock pic went to the top of the search - it stayed there (forever) depending solely on how many dls it had.
No it wasn't. It startet going downwards early.
Beginning 2008 at the 3 big agencies RPI was good.
A few years latter going exclusive with istock my RPI was even getting better.
But actually it was going downwards from the beginning.
It was easy to see at a simple excel sheet. Just compare how older monthly uploads performs against newer uploads in the first months and years after upload.
The newer uploads mostly didn't get the sale volume like older uploads and did not sell that long.
Mostly there is even a continuing trend over the years.
At 2020 my RPI (year) at Adobe Stock was $0,7. At 2008 at FT my RPI (year) was about $2.
This trend was clear since about 2010.
My RPI (year) at istock exclusivity was about $9 at 2012. I guess it would be around $3 nowadays.
Nowadays the situation is like this - average images at microstock still sell at lower RPI compared to 10 years ago.
Averages images at istock exclusive probably don't sell well. Premium images at istock exclusive probably will sell well. If you want to keep your income level. Produce more images at micro, or produce better images for mid stock, macro.
Producing at the same level your income will be lower than now in a few years.
Still the same game as it was the last 10 years.
If you are just starting, your income will grow for about 3 years. Now matter how good or bad your are.
After the first 3 years it depends on your 3 years upload volume and quality.
Just keeping the level means lower income year after year.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: DOP on October 30, 2021, 13:26
Everest, 'As suggested I think it is much wiser move to medium or macro stock'

I am only aware of Stocksy, Arcangel and Trevillion which I assume are 'macro' stock.

Do you know of any others, and which ones are 'medium' stock?

Thanks.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: MotionDesign on October 30, 2021, 14:17
Deb, you have thoroughly embarrassed me . But let me try to explain.

First of all, if we are modest its because we know you dont have to be talented to do well in microstock. You just have to know the ropes.

The other thing is that people like Mihai, myself, Doug Jensen, and remember Iain Campbell with the great model release video port? - are just a few people that come to mind. The common thing is that we all started about the same time - around 2012 to 2013. Why is this important? For one thing, it was a great time to start. There was still quite a bit of competition back in those days, which is important because you need that in order to keep upping your game.

On the other hand, the people who started before us were used to easy street. Back in the beginning when a good stock pic went to the top of the search - it stayed there (forever) depending solely on how many dls it had. So, when things got tough, a lot of them were not willing to change.

When we came along, was the time SS first changed their algorithm and boy did that hurt a lot of people. But the newcomers like us, learnt from it. Also, I remember having all these arguments with Lauren at the time about what sold and what didn't. I started getting 1,000+ DLs on SS a month, and he was trailing behind me, but we still had these arguments. Long story. The older group were not willing to change.

The other thing about the people I know who started then and did well, was we learnt from reviewers rejections. They were even tougher back then, and it was another thing that made or broke you.

And thirdly, we played to our strengths, and we got better and better at knowing how to use them for microstock. Mihai of course is an engineer and brilliant at technical stuff, I come from a business and graphic design background, Iain started off as a model and then learnt video from one of the top video contributors in the industry at the time. Doug had a strong background in video.

So, the question is, can it still be done again if you start today? I know its getting more and more difficult.  SS pulling the rug out of people's feet with their rates restructure has made it even worse. But there is still money to be made with new uploads, and ways to get around all the low subs I have found. And it all comes back to what you shoot, and how to be just that bit different to the rest of the crowd.

So in a nutshell: Play to your strengths, always check with what's already on the database, don't shoot what everyone's shooting, keep learning, keep improving your skills, keep upping your game, and do research. In fact there's heaps and heaps of subject matter that I find every day that is popular on social media and not well covered on the microstock databases.**

And dont listen to all the complaints. It will bring you down. Productivity and negativity don't go well together.

And finally, always remember you are not competing against a million other contributors. You are only competing with those who shoot the same subject matter as you - or rather, those who have the same keywords as you. Puts it all in perspective then.



ETA: ** This is important because advertisers know they have to follow social media trends to sell their products to them - and we (as the stock providers) are there to provide them with that content. NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND! lol

Dear Annie,
i agree with every single word you wrote!
this is exactly what i do and...it works!
In the meantime, October 2021 is my BME (since 2010)
(but i'm not a photographer, 2d/3d illustrations and animations)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: everest on October 30, 2021, 15:50
There are a few others. Adobe premium, Offset, Pond5 setting your prices (basically for video),FilmSupply, plainpicture,...

Everest, 'As suggested I think it is much wiser move to medium or macro stock'

I am only aware of Stocksy, Arcangel and Trevillion which I assume are 'macro' stock.

Do you know of any others, and which ones are 'medium' stock?

Thanks.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: wds on October 30, 2021, 18:43
There are a few others. Adobe premium, Offset, Pond5 setting your prices (basically for video),FilmSupply, plainpicture,...

Everest, 'As suggested I think it is much wiser move to medium or macro stock'

I am only aware of Stocksy, Arcangel and Trevillion which I assume are 'macro' stock.

Do you know of any others, and which ones are 'medium' stock?

Thanks.



There is no anecdotal data on these sites. Yes, they charge more for images, but how much do contributors make compared to:

 - the "glory days of stock" say 25 years ago?
 - the "glory days of microstock" say 10+ years ago?
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: For Real on October 30, 2021, 18:47
There are a few others. Adobe premium, Offset, Pond5 setting your prices (basically for video),FilmSupply, plainpicture,...

Everest, 'As suggested I think it is much wiser move to medium or macro stock'

I am only aware of Stocksy, Arcangel and Trevillion which I assume are 'macro' stock.

Do you know of any others, and which ones are 'medium' stock?

Thanks.



There is no anecdotal data on these sites. Yes, they charge more for images, but how much do contributors make compared to:

 - the "glory days of stock" say 25 years ago?
 - the "glory days of microstock" say 10+ years ago?

they don't. Just think the new folks today will look back at 2021 and say those were the glory days getting almost $.10 per image and $.50 per 4K video on SS!
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: thijsdegraaf on October 31, 2021, 04:25
There are a few others. Adobe premium, Offset, Pond5 setting your prices (basically for video),FilmSupply, plainpicture,...

Everest, 'As suggested I think it is much wiser move to medium or macro stock'

I am only aware of Stocksy, Arcangel and Trevillion which I assume are 'macro' stock.

Do you know of any others, and which ones are 'medium' stock?

Thanks.



There is no anecdotal data on these sites. Yes, they charge more for images, but how much do contributors make compared to:

 - the "glory days of stock" say 25 years ago?
 - the "glory days of microstock" say 10+ years ago?

they don't. Just think the new folks today will look back at 2021 and say those were the glory days getting almost $.10 per image and $.50 per 4K video on SS!

I am a newbie.
In construction you had years with a lot of unemployment and then years with a shortage of employees, so you could earn a lot.
I don't see that happening in stock. The amount of photos, illustrations on the internet is increasing. Cameras, telephones, editing equipment are getting better and more accessible to many people.
I'm sorry I didn't start sooner. But it doesn't make much sense to look back to the past, because that time won't come back.
I think everyone should decide for themselves what to do. I think the talented people can still make good money from it. And it's nice to see whether the earnings are still improving, without always thinking about the past.
I don't earn much, but I like to do it and now even earn something from my hobby (photographing and identifying insects in particular). I just don't have to buy expensive equipment especially for stock.
My biggest fear is that whether the photos will indeed be given away for free in the long run or worse (such as forum, blogs, guestbook on my website, photo sites similar to Flickr) Shutterstock or Adobe will suddenly be completely discontinued. So that everything is gone. Although I think/hope it will take some time.  :)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: tätarätä on October 31, 2021, 04:30
There are a few others. Adobe premium, Offset, Pond5 setting your prices (basically for video),FilmSupply, plainpicture,...

Everest, 'As suggested I think it is much wiser move to medium or macro stock'

I am only aware of Stocksy, Arcangel and Trevillion which I assume are 'macro' stock.

Do you know of any others, and which ones are 'medium' stock?

Thanks.



There is no anecdotal data on these sites. Yes, they charge more for images, but how much do contributors make compared to:

 - the "glory days of stock" say 25 years ago?
 - the "glory days of microstock" say 10+ years ago?

they don't. Just think the new folks today will look back at 2021 and say those were the glory days getting almost $.10 per image and $.50 per 4K video on SS!
I have heard from some old stock photographer - "the glory days of stock" - before RF :-)

Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: dook1000 on October 31, 2021, 05:13

My biggest fear is that whether the photos will indeed be given away for free in the long run or worse (such as forum, blogs, guestbook on my website, photo sites similar to Flickr) Shutterstock or Adobe will suddenly be completely discontinued. So that everything is gone. Although I think/hope it will take some time.  :)

I don't think it will happen because a stock photo is a product like any other product in any industry. There are costs, time and knowledge invested. There are hobbyists, but there contribution to overall market revenue is small.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: For Real on October 31, 2021, 08:38
"My biggest fear is that whether the photos will indeed be given away for free in the long run or worse (such as forum, blogs, guestbook on my website, photo sites similar to Flickr) Shutterstock or Adobe will suddenly be completely discontinued. So that everything is gone. Although I think/hope it will take some time. "

I've heard five years especially if AI images go into play. Technology has changed our lives in many ways. The battery cars will take away the current service jobs that hundred's of thousands do today.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Uncle Pete on October 31, 2021, 09:08

So my advice in a nutshell: Play to your strengths, always check with what's already on the database, don't shoot what everyone's shooting, keep learning, keep improving your skills, keep upping your game, and do research. In fact there's heaps and heaps of subject matter that I find every day that is popular on social media and not well covered on the microstock databases.

And dont listen to all the complaints. It will bring you down. Productivity and negativity don't go well together.

And finally, always remember you are not competing against a million other contributors. You are only competing with those who shoot the same subject matter as you - or rather, those who have the same keywords as you.

Also great point on the social media leads and designers follow. Of course the opposite is also true. One big circle, like a snake eating it's own tail. Trends are created from both sides, feeding off each other.

Interesting way of putting that, we are competing with people who have the same keywords, not the same images.  :) Although there are starting to be AI matches for images, using the images, I think you're right, keywords matter most for being seen, and then the images themselves.

Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: tätarätä on October 31, 2021, 09:32

My biggest fear is that whether the photos will indeed be given away for free in the long run or worse (such as forum, blogs, guestbook on my website, photo sites similar to Flickr) Shutterstock or Adobe will suddenly be completely discontinued. So that everything is gone. Although I think/hope it will take some time.  :)

I don't think it will happen because a stock photo is a product like any other product in any industry. There are costs, time and knowledge invested. There are hobbyists, but there contribution to overall market revenue is small.
I guess most of the microstock photographers are hobbyists or semi pro photographers, producing 50 to 200 images a month. Some contributors are production teams that produce a huge amount every month. Guess 60% of earnings in microstock is made by production teams located in eastern Europe.

Professional photographers are not typical for microstock.
If you are running a small photography business without employees there are some costs.
Your earnings before tax - about $3000, studio rent - about 800 (small studio), equipment, insurance, energy, software, etc,.. for a small photography business there are about $4500 income a month to calculate at least.
This is easier to made with contract work.

"My biggest fear is that whether the photos will indeed be given away for free in the long run"
If you calculate the cost for running a photography business right, they are already given away nearly for free.
You can't compete with east Europe stock production teams. Taking in account to have about $4500 costs and 170 hours a month. Every hour invested should make at least $27 an hour, without model costs. Wich will take another $25 into account per model and hour. Simple productions with one model don't sell anymore. So you will need about 4 to 5 models, and a small team. For an 1/2 day shooting you must account at least about $600 of costs. This is just a half day shooting for stock.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on October 31, 2021, 15:25
Microstock is a business model / industry. We produce goods as it is common in other industries.

When production costs become too expensive in one country, production moves to a country where these costs are lower. And if that country produces too expensively, it moves on to the next country.

In the past, textiles were produced in Germany. At some point, that came to an end. Labor costs were too high and the cost of living was too high.

Later, Greece was a country where an important part of the gross domestic product was generated by the textile industry. But that belongs to the past, too.

Today, the textiles come from Bangladesh.

I am very sure that the market-dominating producers in the future will not come from the Western industrialized nations. You simply cannot produce below the price required for the cost of living.

That's why many microstock producers had the keywording done in Asia - in India, for example - already years ago. To make a profit.

From 10 cents, for example, model photography is no longer possible here.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Rightdx on October 31, 2021, 16:37
My earnings at SS peaked in 2019 but they are continuing to improve at Adobe. This month at Adobe, I hit a new annual high - with 2 months still to go.  With any luck, I still have a shot at an all time high in 2021, across all agencies combined!
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on November 01, 2021, 05:13
At the beginning of October I passed the 10,000 downloads for this year. Just a few years ago, it took me only half a year to do that. In addition, for the first time since 2011, I'm going to make the five-figure income for the year by a relatively narrow margin.

Revenue October 2021 vs. October 2020
AS: + 54.5%
SS: - 31.5%
If I add up all 6 agencies, revenues are identical with Oct. 2020 (though I can only estimate iStock by using September numbers).

Downloads -6.2%
So RPD actually increased slightly compared to 2020, which I would not have expected.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: DOP on November 03, 2021, 08:19
Big EOTM slump followed by a smaller MOTM slump hot on the heels of a BOTM slump.

Lot of slumpin' going on here.

I'm having an Autumn slump, hot on the heels of a Spring and Summer slump, anticipating a Winter slump ...
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: For Real on November 03, 2021, 10:00
Big EOTM slump followed by a smaller MOTM slump hot on the heels of a BOTM slump.

Lot of slumpin' going on here.

I'm having an Autumn slump, hot on the heels of a Spring and Summer slump, anticipating a Winter slump ...

It is no longer consider a 'slump' since that indicates that things will go back to normal with higher sales  :-\
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: DOP on November 03, 2021, 10:06
Big EOTM slump followed by a smaller MOTM slump hot on the heels of a BOTM slump.

Lot of slumpin' going on here.

I'm having an Autumn slump, hot on the heels of a Spring and Summer slump, anticipating a Winter slump ...

It is no longer consider a 'slump' since that indicates that things will go back to normal with higher sales  :-\

True.  Maybe I should have said 'a never ending downward slide ...'...
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Uncle Pete on November 03, 2021, 10:10
At the beginning of October I passed the 10,000 downloads for this year. Just a few years ago, it took me only half a year to do that. In addition, for the first time since 2011, I'm going to make the five-figure income for the year by a relatively narrow margin.

Revenue October 2021 vs. October 2020
AS: + 54.5%
SS: - 31.5%
If I add up all 6 agencies, revenues are identical with Oct. 2020 (though I can only estimate iStock by using September numbers).

Downloads -6.2%
So RPD actually increased slightly compared to 2020, which I would not have expected.

$10,000 for the year, you're over $1 RPD and that's a great success story as well. (https://i.postimg.cc/dttsYRZ0/thumbs-up-100.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Jnf0V7Pk/first_place_award_90.jpg)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on November 03, 2021, 17:34
At the beginning of October I passed the 10,000 downloads for this year. Just a few years ago, it took me only half a year to do that. In addition, for the first time since 2011, I'm going to make the five-figure income for the year by a relatively narrow margin.

Revenue October 2021 vs. October 2020
AS: + 54.5%
SS: - 31.5%
If I add up all 6 agencies, revenues are identical with Oct. 2020 (though I can only estimate iStock by using September numbers).

Downloads -6.2%
So RPD actually increased slightly compared to 2020, which I would not have expected.

$10,000 for the year, you're over $1 RPD and that's a great success story as well. (https://i.postimg.cc/dttsYRZ0/thumbs-up-100.jpg)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Jnf0V7Pk/first_place_award_90.jpg)

Pete, I must have expressed myself incorrectly or poorly.  My RPD is lower than $1.

I already have the 10000 Dls, but the five-digit income not yet - in contrast to previous years.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: For Real on November 03, 2021, 21:40
then we must take back that gold metal  :-\
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: DOP on November 04, 2021, 02:22
then we must take back that gold metal  :-\

I agree, especially in light of Wilm's huge portfolio of 1300 images (on SS alone)... 
If you do better next year Wilm you can have the gold medal back  8)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on November 04, 2021, 03:16
Could I maybe get a tin medal instead?  :P ::)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: DOP on November 04, 2021, 04:05
Could I maybe get a tin medal instead?  :P ::)

Of course, Wilm. 
You do at least deserve that for your tiny 10K+ downloads this year ..
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Pacesetter on November 04, 2021, 05:32
Shutterstock is the only site delivering, the others are in a comatose. 
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Uncle Pete on November 04, 2021, 12:26
Could I maybe get a tin medal instead?  :P ::)

LOL the 10k downloads is an accomplishment and yes I misread I thought you said five figures for the first time since 2011.

In addition, for the first time since 2011, I'm going to make the five-figure income for the year by a relatively narrow margin.

Sorry gold medals can't be taken back except in cases of fraud, lies or cheating.

I agree, especially in light of Wilm's huge portfolio of 1300 images (on SS alone)... 
If you do better next year Wilm you can have the gold medal back  8)

Only 1,300 images, that's amazing.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Uncle Pete on November 04, 2021, 12:27
Shutterstock is the only site delivering, the others are in a comatose.

Then you might want to open an Adobe account and start uploading there?
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on November 04, 2021, 13:43
We could agree on a brass medal - Deb and Pete. Looks like gold, but costs only a fraction. That would also fit better with the current development in the microstock business - fewer and fewer contributors can afford gold.  ::)

Already years ago I had decided to stop with microstock if the monthly income would drop below 1000 Euro. I did not keep my word. I just let it continue. I have uploaded new images only to AS lately. That's why I have about 1450 images there. At shutterstock I don't feel like it anymore because of the new revenue structure and because the images lose value too fast for me there - they disappear too fast in nirvana.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on November 04, 2021, 13:54
BTW – November has started so badly that I now also have to fear for the five-figure income - especially with shutterstock. Underground!
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Pacesetter on November 04, 2021, 21:06
Shutterstock is the only site delivering, the others are in a comatose.

Then you might want to open an Adobe account and start uploading there?

Adobe is one of the 'others' in comatose.  :-\
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Uncle Pete on November 05, 2021, 15:39
Shutterstock is the only site delivering, the others are in a comatose.

Then you might want to open an Adobe account and start uploading there?

Adobe is one of the 'others' in comatose.  :-\

They see you when you're shooting
They know when you upload
They know when you've been bad or good
So be good for goodness sake
You better watch out
You better not cry
You better not pout
I'm telling you why, Microstock is coming to town


Sorry for nothing better, or helpful. The last two places I make anything, on a regular basis, and that's pretty stinky, SS and AS. Everything else is "the next big thing" which is just a song and dance at this point to get people to think there's some great new plan or idea.

The reason I still like Wirestock, isn't the money, but the part where I upload once, with the data I added for SS and AS and forget about them. My top earning site on WS for this month is DT and I made more than I do with my old DT account. WS only has new images and rejects. I can't say anything about why that happened.

(https://i.postimg.cc/Pr59Rqr5/microstock-zone.jpg)

Good Luck I hope you find something that changes the downward trend.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: BImages on November 06, 2021, 02:14
Downward spiral is inevitable... resistance is futile, you will be assimilated !!  8)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: dook1000 on November 06, 2021, 10:45
Things are getting worse every day and it is very hard for newcomers especially to make a living exclusively from microstock.  It was different years ago, most of us are struggling right now. me, personally, I saved a lot during these years and invested in stock market, so I hit FI (financial independence) just around when things turned ugly. I now have a comfort of getting along with much lower paychecks from microstock.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Pacesetter on November 07, 2021, 03:40
Downward spiral is inevitable... resistance is futile, you will be assimilated !!  8)

Downward trenz, adobe style...

Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: For Real on November 07, 2021, 09:42
Downward spiral is inevitable... resistance is futile, you will be assimilated !!  8)

Downward trenz, adobe style...


That's my graph for all my agencies not just Adobe  :-\
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: whosvegas on November 08, 2021, 02:50
AS complete dead for more then a week

Maybe the free collection, was not a great idea
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Pacesetter on November 08, 2021, 07:03
AS complete dead for more then a week

Maybe the free collection, was not a great idea

Especially if contributors aren't looking to maximise sales.  Now customers can feast on free images. I never opted into the scheme.     
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on November 08, 2021, 10:02
AS is somewhat normal for me.

But with shutterstock it gets worse and worse. I don't know what it looks like for Murat, for example, who has been level 6 for months. But from my point of view the levels are a farce. Whether you are level 1 or level 5 doesn't matter from my point of view. The last downloads brought an RPD of $0.14 - screenshot attached. The days before it was hardly better.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: For Real on November 08, 2021, 11:28
sadly this is the new norm on SS. The EDs are all but a thing of the past  :-[
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Myphotobase on November 09, 2021, 13:14
AS complete dead for more then a week

Maybe the free collection, was not a great idea

Free Images don't put butter on table....  :-\
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: marthamarks on November 09, 2021, 13:30
...Had 50 sales today and still only a single digit earning amount....

Yes, under $10 for 50 sales was what I meant. Sorry, English isn't my first language, maybe you don't say it like this in English.

I'm guessing it was less your expression than disbelief that the total could be so low :)

You were very close - it's typically "single digits" plural - as in "Had 50 sales today and earnings were only in the single digits"

Margin optimization (Shutterstock-speak for cutting contributor's royalties) has meant:

50 new subscription sales at the current 10 cent minimum = $5
50 old subscription sales at the old rate of 38 cents each = $19
(it would even have been $12.50 at the starter royalty of 25 cents)

Firn, I understood you well enough to realize that this was one of the grimmest reports I'd heard in a long, looooong time.

I'm so sorry.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: H2O on November 09, 2021, 13:42
Today sums up my whole month on SS pretty accurately: Had 50 sales today and still only a single digit earning amount.  ::)

Single digit from 50 sales. I don't understand. What single digit? Like under $10 you mean? WOW
Yes, under $10 for 50 sales was what I meant. Sorry, English isn't my first language, maybe you don't say it like this in English.

In September I had 89 sales in a day on Shutterstock, but only made $9.12, they were all download from the same location and were all of the same subject.

This is why I don't upload to them anymore.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: marthamarks on November 09, 2021, 16:53
Today sums up my whole month on SS pretty accurately: Had 50 sales today and still only a single digit earning amount.  ::)

Single digit from 50 sales. I don't understand. What single digit? Like under $10 you mean? WOW
Yes, under $10 for 50 sales was what I meant. Sorry, English isn't my first language, maybe you don't say it like this in English.

In September I had 89 sales in a day on Shutterstock, but only made $9.12, they were all download from the same location and were all of the same subject.

This is why I don't upload to them anymore.

Wise move.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on November 09, 2021, 17:10
Today sums up my whole month on SS pretty accurately: Had 50 sales today and still only a single digit earning amount.  ::)

Single digit from 50 sales. I don't understand. What single digit? Like under $10 you mean? WOW
Yes, under $10 for 50 sales was what I meant. Sorry, English isn't my first language, maybe you don't say it like this in English.

In September I had 89 sales in a day on Shutterstock, but only made $9.12, they were all download from the same location and were all of the same subject.

This is why I don't upload to them anymore.

I have never had this many downloads in a single day in over 11 years. But there have been times when significantly fewer downloads brought home over $250 in a single day. And because of that, shutterstock was my favorite agency for a long time.
Those times are gone - as you can see very well from your example. And that makes me sad.

I admire all those who still invest time and work, and sometimes obviously can achieve increases with it. My personal motivation is at zero.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Pacesetter on November 10, 2021, 20:58
Sales dead
Earnings dead
Forum dead
Everything dead
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Annie on November 10, 2021, 21:50
Sales dead
Earnings dead
Forum dead
Everything dead

Everyone's busy shooting their blue Christmas stock  ;) ;D

If you missed the reference - see here ...

https://www.microstockgroup.com/general-photography-discussion/stock-ideas-for-christmas-what-you-should-not-do/ (https://www.microstockgroup.com/general-photography-discussion/stock-ideas-for-christmas-what-you-should-not-do/)


But all jokes aside - guess what color is IN for Christmas this year? Yep ...
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: DOP on November 11, 2021, 04:20
Sales dead
Earnings dead
Forum dead
Everything dead

The good news is that the world has a chance of surviving (according to COP26) ..
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Pacesetter on November 11, 2021, 04:30
Sales dead
Earnings dead
Forum dead
Everything dead

The good news is that the world has a chance of surviving (according to COP26) ..

Hmm, well, certainly not as dead as Adobe Stop.

Adobe Stop, because sales on Adobe Stop, have stopped.

Adobe Stop sales are running at a piddly 4.4% of sales on Shutterstock this month.

Free images for all!!  ;D

Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: marthamarks on November 11, 2021, 09:49

Hmm, well, certainly not as dead as Adobe Stop.

Adobe Stop, because sales on Adobe Stop, have stopped.

Sorry for you, but I'm not seeing that.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: For Real on November 11, 2021, 16:53
Sales dead
Earnings dead
Forum dead
Everything dead

The good news is that the world has a chance of surviving (according to COP26) ..

Hmm, well, certainly not as dead as Adobe Stop.

Adobe Stop, because sales on Adobe Stop, have stopped.

Adobe Stop sales are running at a piddly 4.4% of sales on Shutterstock this month.

Free images for all!!  ;D

if you can send us your link we can maybe get you going again- as long as you are willing to accept positive criticism. If you not selling something is clearly not in tune with AS.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Annie on November 11, 2021, 17:43

Hmm, well, certainly not as dead as Adobe Stop.

Adobe Stop, because sales on Adobe Stop, have stopped.

Sorry for you, but I'm not seeing that.

Same here. AS has a really great algorithm IMO. If you get quick sales on new work, the algorithm repays you tenfold. And that’s where I am making the most money. More so on AS than other agencies.

I haven't put any of my work there up for free. Don't know if that makes a difference or not.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: marthamarks on November 11, 2021, 18:25

Hmm, well, certainly not as dead as Adobe Stop.

Adobe Stop, because sales on Adobe Stop, have stopped.

Sorry for you, but I'm not seeing that.

Same here. AS has a really great algorithm IMO. If you get quick sales on new work, the algorithm repays you tenfold. And that’s where I am making the most money. More so on AS than other agencies.

I haven't put any of my work there up for free. Don't know if that makes a difference or not.

To tell you the truth, my number of downloads seems to have increased since AS took a bunch of my images for their free collection.

Now… I don't want to say anything false, and I don't want to jinx mysef either, but… is it even remotely possible that AS's algorithm rewards those who participate in that program?
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: CSImages on November 11, 2021, 22:55
Today sums up my whole month on SS pretty accurately: Had 50 sales today and still only a single digit earning amount.  ::)

Single digit from 50 sales. I don't understand. What single digit? Like under $10 you mean? WOW
Yes, under $10 for 50 sales was what I meant. Sorry, English isn't my first language, maybe you don't say it like this in English.

In September I had 89 sales in a day on Shutterstock, but only made $9.12, they were all download from the same location and were all of the same subject.

This is why I don't upload to them anymore.

Same here, 14 cents for the majority of sales.. I just flushed them completely !!
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Firn on November 12, 2021, 01:30

Same here. AS has a really great algorithm IMO. If you get quick sales on new work, the algorithm repays you tenfold. And that’s where I am making the most money. More so on AS than other agencies.

I haven't put any of my work there up for free. Don't know if that makes a difference or not.
Please tell me your secret then!
Because I can't get Adobe to sell new content at all. Most of my sales there seem to come from a fixed set of older images that keep selling regularly and once in a full moon some random other image will sell, but I don't have any other agency where new images sell as poorly (= basically not at all) as on Adobe!  Getting new content to sell is difficult on all agencies to begin with, but on Adobe I always thought they had the worst algorithm for promoting new content of all agencies.
 :o
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: thijsdegraaf on November 12, 2021, 02:24
I don't sell much on AS, but I do sell a few photos every week this year. But so far in November nothing at all. While Shutterstock is doing better than last months.
I haven't put any of my work there up for free too.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Annie on November 12, 2021, 03:21

Same here. AS has a really great algorithm IMO. If you get quick sales on new work, the algorithm repays you tenfold. And that’s where I am making the most money. More so on AS than other agencies.

I haven't put any of my work there up for free. Don't know if that makes a difference or not.
Please tell me your secret then!
Because I can't get Adobe to sell new content at all. Most of my sales there seem to come from a fixed set of older images that keep selling regularly and once in a full moon some random other image will sell, but I don't have any other agency where new images sell as poorly (= basically not at all) as on Adobe!  Getting new content to sell is difficult on all agencies to begin with, but on Adobe I always thought they had the worst algorithm for promoting new content of all agencies.
 :o

Firn, I hope you don't mind but I had a quick look at your new work on SS, I should have looked on AS but SS was easier, and I noticed at least 3 things that I do differently to you.

First of all, and I feel a bit awkward giving advice about AS because Mat Hayward is on here and he would know better than me, but I have always thought of AS as the designer agency. So once again, its about knowing your buyers.

So, the things I noticed about your shots vs mine: I offer twice the size as you (ie at least 6000 x 4000 px vs a lot of yours are only 3k x 2k), a lot more copy space than you (especially important if you're selling to designers) and I offer a lot more new trends (eg. colors, themes, etc)

People have been arguing with me about following trends for years, but I stopped listening to them a long time ago, and have been laughing all the way to the bank ever since. You know how many dls I get, so I dont have to go into any more detail than that.

As for selling to designers, I was a graphic designer, so that helps.

I am also on social media every night looking for new and popular trends in colors and styling - and that's how I get so many dls as well.

And thats the same with sooooooooooo many things I find on social media. I think contributors are still shooting too many traditional things without doing a lot of research.

And as for the complaint that many people now have about "why bother shooting new stuff, you only get 10c a DL'. Well I sell a lot of my subs on AS at 99c/DL.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Firn on November 12, 2021, 03:34

Same here. AS has a really great algorithm IMO. If you get quick sales on new work, the algorithm repays you tenfold. And that’s where I am making the most money. More so on AS than other agencies.

I haven't put any of my work there up for free. Don't know if that makes a difference or not.
Please tell me your secret then!
Because I can't get Adobe to sell new content at all. Most of my sales there seem to come from a fixed set of older images that keep selling regularly and once in a full moon some random other image will sell, but I don't have any other agency where new images sell as poorly (= basically not at all) as on Adobe!  Getting new content to sell is difficult on all agencies to begin with, but on Adobe I always thought they had the worst algorithm for promoting new content of all agencies.
 :o

Firn, I hope you don't mind but I had a quick look at your new work on SS, I should have looked on AS but SS was easier, and I noticed at least 3 things that I do differently to you.

First of all, and I feel a bit awkward giving advice about AS because Mat Hayward is on here and he would know better than me, but I have always thought of AS as the designer agency. So once again, its about knowing your buyers.

So, the things I noticed about your shots vs mine: I offer twice the size as you (ie at least 6000 x 4000 px vs a lot of yours are only 3k x 2k), a lot more copy space than you (especially important if you're selling to designers) and I offer a lot more new trends (eg. colors, themes, etc)

People have been arguing with me about following trends for years, but I stopped listening to them a long time ago, and have been laughing all the way to the bank ever since. You know how many dls I get, so I dont have to go into any more detail than that.

As for selling to designers, I was a graphic designer, so that helps, and early this year I opened up an account with DesignBundles.com, and did a lot of research on what I can shoot to sell to those designers. One day I decided to upload them to AS and they have been selling like hotcakes ever since. A few sell on other agencies, but mainly on AS. Once again, the designer agency (because their buyers come through their software)

I am also on social media every night looking for new and popular trends in colors and styling - and that's how I get so many dls as well. My huge success from my holiday candyland cakes started back then in 2018, and been selling ever since. I remember at the time seeing all these eye-popping crazy cakes on Pinterest that were being pinned like crazy, I checked back to microstock databases and almost nothing there.

And thats the same with sooooooooooo many things I find on social media. I think contributors are still shooting too many traditional things without doing a lot of research.

No, Annie, I don't mind at all, on the contrary, I am very thankful for your advice.

I think you mentioned that you see a connection between good sales and image size before at some point and I actually try to implement this and while I always used to submit in 3kx2k, I now often try to go bigger, but I am afraid I am either simply not a good enough photographer or don't have have the right equipment. Most of my images will have way too much noise or a too soft focus in 6Kx4K size to get accepted by agencies like Shutterstock.
About the copy space I will try to keep that in mind. I actually thought I was already creating versions with a decent amount of copy space, but apparently not.  :-[

But, Annie, this is all good advice to get more sales overall, but I am not sure it explains why on Adobe I can't get new images to sell? Because for me it's really a problem that stands out on Adobe. This year around Halloween I wasn't really able to establish and decent bestseller, but last year for example I added a series of images that performed well on ALL agencies - Expect on Adobe. 0 sales there. I was really frustrated about it, because that shoot was so much work and I felt like the images could have done so well on Adobe, if only they promoted them correctly. So for me it's really Adobe that fails to promote my new work and I am not sure image size or copy space is the reason why new images sell on other agencies but not on Adobe? That's what baffles me. I am not complaining about poor sales in general, just how on Adobe my newer works seems to stay unnoticed.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Annie on November 12, 2021, 03:55

Same here. AS has a really great algorithm IMO. If you get quick sales on new work, the algorithm repays you tenfold. And that’s where I am making the most money. More so on AS than other agencies.

I haven't put any of my work there up for free. Don't know if that makes a difference or not.
Please tell me your secret then!
Because I can't get Adobe to sell new content at all. Most of my sales there seem to come from a fixed set of older images that keep selling regularly and once in a full moon some random other image will sell, but I don't have any other agency where new images sell as poorly (= basically not at all) as on Adobe!  Getting new content to sell is difficult on all agencies to begin with, but on Adobe I always thought they had the worst algorithm for promoting new content of all agencies.
 :o

Firn, I hope you don't mind but I had a quick look at your new work on SS, I should have looked on AS but SS was easier, and I noticed at least 3 things that I do differently to you.

First of all, and I feel a bit awkward giving advice about AS because Mat Hayward is on here and he would know better than me, but I have always thought of AS as the designer agency. So once again, its about knowing your buyers.

So, the things I noticed about your shots vs mine: I offer twice the size as you (ie at least 6000 x 4000 px vs a lot of yours are only 3k x 2k), a lot more copy space than you (especially important if you're selling to designers) and I offer a lot more new trends (eg. colors, themes, etc)

As for selling to designers, I was a graphic designer, so that helps.

I am also on social media every night looking for new and popular trends in colors and styling.

No, Annie, I don't mind at all, on the contrary, I am very thankful for your advice.

I think you mentioned that you see a connection between good sales and image size before at some point and I actually try to implement this and while I always used to submit in 3kx2k, I now often try to go bigger, but I am afraid I am either simply not a good enough photographer or don't have have the right equipment. Most of my images will have way too much noise or a too soft focus in 6Kx4K size to get accepted by agencies like Shutterstock.
About the copy space I will try to keep that in mind. I actually thought I was already creating versions with a decent amount of copy space, but apparently not.  :-[

But, Annie, this is all good advice to get more sales overall, but I am not sure it explains why on Adobe I can't get new images to sell? Because for me it's really a problem that stands out on Adobe. This year around Halloween I wasn't really able to establish and decent bestseller, but last year for example I added a series of images that performed well on ALL agencies - Expect on Adobe. 0 sales there. So for me it's really Adobe that fails to promote my new work and I am not sure image size or copy space is the reason why new images sell on other agencies but not on Adobe? That's what baffles me. I am not complaining about poor sales in general, just how on Adobe my newer works seems to stay unnoticed.

Ok, I just had another quick look at your Halloween searching by fresh images - and I see a lot of pumpkins and a lot of orange. Very traditional.

I dont shoot pumpkins anymore because that subject is too oversaturated for me. My thought is, its already done so why shoot it.


Firn, I think you're a great photographer. I love your puppies. So cute. You've done extremely well for someone who only started a few years ago. I think you just need a few tweaks here and there and you can do even better.

But AS's algorithm is great if you can find new stuff that designers want. A friend explained this me just this morning: "Yes, I like Adobe, remember they have that 30 days rank thing, then images are pretty well fixed where they are. Early views and sales are important. Which is good for your current type of material, instead of long run kind of things."
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Firn on November 12, 2021, 04:06

Same here. AS has a really great algorithm IMO. If you get quick sales on new work, the algorithm repays you tenfold. And that’s where I am making the most money. More so on AS than other agencies.

I haven't put any of my work there up for free. Don't know if that makes a difference or not.
Please tell me your secret then!
Because I can't get Adobe to sell new content at all. Most of my sales there seem to come from a fixed set of older images that keep selling regularly and once in a full moon some random other image will sell, but I don't have any other agency where new images sell as poorly (= basically not at all) as on Adobe!  Getting new content to sell is difficult on all agencies to begin with, but on Adobe I always thought they had the worst algorithm for promoting new content of all agencies.
 :o

Firn, I hope you don't mind but I had a quick look at your new work on SS, I should have looked on AS but SS was easier, and I noticed at least 3 things that I do differently to you.

First of all, and I feel a bit awkward giving advice about AS because Mat Hayward is on here and he would know better than me, but I have always thought of AS as the designer agency. So once again, its about knowing your buyers.

So, the things I noticed about your shots vs mine: I offer twice the size as you (ie at least 6000 x 4000 px vs a lot of yours are only 3k x 2k), a lot more copy space than you (especially important if you're selling to designers) and I offer a lot more new trends (eg. colors, themes, etc)

People have been arguing with me about following trends for years, but I stopped listening to them a long time ago, and have been laughing all the way to the bank ever since. You know how many dls I get, so I dont have to go into any more detail than that.

As for selling to designers, I was a graphic designer, so that helps, and early this year I opened up an account with DesignBundles.com, and did a lot of research on what I can shoot to sell to those designers. One day I decided to upload them to AS and they have been selling like hotcakes ever since. A few sell on other agencies, but mainly on AS. Once again, the designer agency (because their buyers come through their software)

I am also on social media every night looking for new and popular trends in colors and styling - and that's how I get so many dls as well. My huge success from my holiday candyland cakes started back then in 2018, and been selling ever since. I remember at the time seeing all these eye-popping crazy cakes on Pinterest that were being pinned like crazy, I checked back to microstock databases and almost nothing there.

And thats the same with sooooooooooo many things I find on social media. I think contributors are still shooting too many traditional things without doing a lot of research.

No, Annie, I don't mind at all, on the contrary, I am very thankful for your advice.

I think you mentioned that you see a connection between good sales and image size before at some point and I actually try to implement this and while I always used to submit in 3kx2k, I now often try to go bigger, but I am afraid I am either simply not a good enough photographer or don't have have the right equipment. Most of my images will have way too much noise or a too soft focus in 6Kx4K size to get accepted by agencies like Shutterstock.
About the copy space I will try to keep that in mind. I actually thought I was already creating versions with a decent amount of copy space, but apparently not.  :-[

But, Annie, this is all good advice to get more sales overall, but I am not sure it explains why on Adobe I can't get new images to sell? Because for me it's really a problem that stands out on Adobe. This year around Halloween I wasn't really able to establish and decent bestseller, but last year for example I added a series of images that performed well on ALL agencies - Expect on Adobe. 0 sales there. So for me it's really Adobe that fails to promote my new work and I am not sure image size or copy space is the reason why new images sell on other agencies but not on Adobe? That's what baffles me. I am not complaining about poor sales in general, just how on Adobe my newer works seems to stay unnoticed.

Ok, I just had another quick look at your Halloween searching by fresh images - and I see a lot of pumpkins and a lot of orange. Very traditional.

I dont shoot pumpkins anymore because that subject is too oversaturated for me. My thought is, its already done so why shoot it.

I made killing on AS this October - and I can give this away now because Halloween is over - I looked at Pinterest for what was trending a few months ago - and it was PINK halloween. So, this year I did one big Halloween party table shoot in pink, black and white theme, and lots of background flatlays - and some of my images and stop motion videos made it to the first page of those respective searches on AS. A couple on SS as well. It was big hit. Not a lot of competition. Thats what you have to go for.

But that's all the tips and trade secrets from me for now  - I dont want to give too much away on a public forum. lol ;-)


Firn, I think you're a great photographer. I love your puppies. So cute. You've done extremely well for someone who only started a few years ago. I think you just need a few tweaks here and there and you can do even better.

But AS's algorithm is great if you can find new stuff that designers want. A friend explained this me just this morning: "Yes, I like Adobe, remember they have that 30 days rank thing, then images are pretty well fixed where they are. Early views and sales are important. Which is good for your current type of material, instead of long run kind of things."
Pumpkins and "traditional" Halloween stuff don't do well for me on Halloween. What sells well for me are my dogs - same as on all other holidays. That's where I make the most money with.
I admit I don't look out so much for new trends, that's certainly something I have to look into. But as said, since it's my dogs that sell well and I like to stick to that as it works for me I am not sure trends is something I can implement there. Though, thinking about it, actually I could probably have made some "pink Halloween" themes with my dogs too.
Again, thanky ou for your advice. Thanks for taking the time! I will try to work on my copy space issue and try to look out more for new trends.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Annie on November 12, 2021, 04:13
@Firn.

Here's some tips on getting photos past fussy reviewers - if it helps.

When I started microstock in 2013, all I had was an old Nikon d90 and a kit lens. And reviewers were even fussier back then. And I used to shoot all handheld because I didnt have a tripod back then as well.

And this is what I learnt: 1. For your aperture, find the sweet spot on your lens. That will ensure super sharp focus. There's lots of articles about it on google. 2. If shooting handheld, your shutterspeed should be 3 times the length of your lens. And 3. always, always have your ISO set on the lowest possible setting. (for noise-free shots) The rest is light, so invest in some good strobes or whatever. And study lighting.

And if I ever did have some noise in backgrounds or dark areas, I would go over those areas in Photoshop with the blur tool.

All tips that we all learnt on SS forum back in the 'old days'. :-)

And I always uploaded the largest size possible, sometimes smaller because of necessary cropping, but on the old d90 it was usually 4288px on the longest side.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Annie on November 12, 2021, 04:21

Same here. AS has a really great algorithm IMO. If you get quick sales on new work, the algorithm repays you tenfold. And that’s where I am making the most money. More so on AS than other agencies.

I haven't put any of my work there up for free. Don't know if that makes a difference or not.
Please tell me your secret then!
Because I can't get Adobe to sell new content at all. Most of my sales there seem to come from a fixed set of older images that keep selling regularly and once in a full moon some random other image will sell, but I don't have any other agency where new images sell as poorly (= basically not at all) as on Adobe!  Getting new content to sell is difficult on all agencies to begin with, but on Adobe I always thought they had the worst algorithm for promoting new content of all agencies.
 :o

Firn, I hope you don't mind but I had a quick look at your new work on SS, I should have looked on AS but SS was easier, and I noticed at least 3 things that I do differently to you.

First of all, and I feel a bit awkward giving advice about AS because Mat Hayward is on here and he would know better than me, but I have always thought of AS as the designer agency. So once again, its about knowing your buyers.

So, the things I noticed about your shots vs mine: I offer twice the size as you (ie at least 6000 x 4000 px vs a lot of yours are only 3k x 2k), a lot more copy space than you (especially important if you're selling to designers) and I offer a lot more new trends (eg. colors, themes, etc)

I am also on social media every night looking for new and popular trends in colors and styling - and that's how I get so many dls as well.

No, Annie, I don't mind at all, on the contrary, I am very thankful for your advice.

I think you mentioned that you see a connection between good sales and image size before at some point and I actually try to implement this and while I always used to submit in 3kx2k, I now often try to go bigger, but I am afraid I am either simply not a good enough photographer or don't have have the right equipment. Most of my images will have way too much noise or a too soft focus in 6Kx4K size to get accepted by agencies like Shutterstock.
About the copy space I will try to keep that in mind. I actually thought I was already creating versions with a decent amount of copy space, but apparently not.  :-[

But, Annie, this is all good advice to get more sales overall, but I am not sure it explains why on Adobe I can't get new images to sell? Because for me it's really a problem that stands out on Adobe. This year around Halloween I wasn't really able to establish and decent bestseller, but last year for example I added a series of images that performed well on ALL agencies - Expect on Adobe. 0 sales there. So for me it's really Adobe that fails to promote my new work and I am not sure image size or copy space is the reason why new images sell on other agencies but not on Adobe? That's what baffles me. I am not complaining about poor sales in general, just how on Adobe my newer works seems to stay unnoticed.

Ok, I just had another quick look at your Halloween searching by fresh images - and I see a lot of pumpkins and a lot of orange. Very traditional.

I dont shoot pumpkins anymore because that subject is too oversaturated for me. My thought is, its already done so why shoot it.


Firn, I think you're a great photographer. I love your puppies. So cute. You've done extremely well for someone who only started a few years ago. I think you just need a few tweaks here and there and you can do even better.

But AS's algorithm is great if you can find new stuff that designers want. A friend explained this me just this morning: "Yes, I like Adobe, remember they have that 30 days rank thing, then images are pretty well fixed where they are. Early views and sales are important. Which is good for your current type of material, instead of long run kind of things."
Pumpkins and "traditional" Halloween stuff don't do well for me on Halloween. What sells well for me are my dogs - same as on all other holidays. That's where I make the most money with. The shoot I was talking about that failed so miserably on Adobe was from this one: https://www.shutterstock.com/de/image-photo/french-buldog-dog-wearing-red-halloween-1831416523 (https://www.shutterstock.com/de/image-photo/french-buldog-dog-wearing-red-halloween-1831416523)
So much work, I sew all the costumes myself, drove all the way to a cemetary where I could take dogs, embarassed myself by desecrating graves and then none of the images sold on Adobe at all. That was disappointing.  :(
I admit I don't look out so much for new trends, that's certainly something I have to look into. But as said, since it's my dogs that sell well and I like to stick to that as it works for me I am not sure trends is something I can implement there. Though, thinking about it, actually I could probably have made some "pink Halloween" themes with my dogs too.
Again, thanky ou for your advice. Thanks for taking the time! I will try to work on my copy space issue and try to look out more for new trends.

OK> another tip. I am trying not to be too negative. So dont worry too much about what I say - only take on what you think is ok. In the bulldog wearing red halloween pic - there is too much distraction in the background. Another angle perhaps?  If I was a designer looking for a pic like that - I would move on to something else. Because of lack of copy space usually.

What I do is shoot something like that with a full background is have one like that - and then move everything else to the side and shoot with a lot of copy space. Or for your puppy I might have brought him home and shoot him against a plain background with lots of negative space in a studio shot. And then see what sells most.

Your doggy pics are great though and wow, you do a great job on the costumes! I didnt know that. Well, play to your strengths, I always say. Your doggy pics and costumes are great. 
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Firn on November 12, 2021, 06:04

Same here. AS has a really great algorithm IMO. If you get quick sales on new work, the algorithm repays you tenfold. And that’s where I am making the most money. More so on AS than other agencies.

I haven't put any of my work there up for free. Don't know if that makes a difference or not.
Please tell me your secret then!
Because I can't get Adobe to sell new content at all. Most of my sales there seem to come from a fixed set of older images that keep selling regularly and once in a full moon some random other image will sell, but I don't have any other agency where new images sell as poorly (= basically not at all) as on Adobe!  Getting new content to sell is difficult on all agencies to begin with, but on Adobe I always thought they had the worst algorithm for promoting new content of all agencies.
 :o

Firn, I hope you don't mind but I had a quick look at your new work on SS, I should have looked on AS but SS was easier, and I noticed at least 3 things that I do differently to you.

First of all, and I feel a bit awkward giving advice about AS because Mat Hayward is on here and he would know better than me, but I have always thought of AS as the designer agency. So once again, its about knowing your buyers.

So, the things I noticed about your shots vs mine: I offer twice the size as you (ie at least 6000 x 4000 px vs a lot of yours are only 3k x 2k), a lot more copy space than you (especially important if you're selling to designers) and I offer a lot more new trends (eg. colors, themes, etc)

People have been arguing with me about following trends for years, but I stopped listening to them a long time ago, and have been laughing all the way to the bank ever since. You know how many dls I get, so I dont have to go into any more detail than that.

As for selling to designers, I was a graphic designer, so that helps, and early this year I opened up an account with DesignBundles.com, and did a lot of research on what I can shoot to sell to those designers. One day I decided to upload them to AS and they have been selling like hotcakes ever since. A few sell on other agencies, but mainly on AS. Once again, the designer agency (because their buyers come through their software)

I am also on social media every night looking for new and popular trends in colors and styling - and that's how I get so many dls as well. My huge success from my holiday candyland cakes started back then in 2018, and been selling ever since. I remember at the time seeing all these eye-popping crazy cakes on Pinterest that were being pinned like crazy, I checked back to microstock databases and almost nothing there.

And thats the same with sooooooooooo many things I find on social media. I think contributors are still shooting too many traditional things without doing a lot of research.

No, Annie, I don't mind at all, on the contrary, I am very thankful for your advice.

I think you mentioned that you see a connection between good sales and image size before at some point and I actually try to implement this and while I always used to submit in 3kx2k, I now often try to go bigger, but I am afraid I am either simply not a good enough photographer or don't have have the right equipment. Most of my images will have way too much noise or a too soft focus in 6Kx4K size to get accepted by agencies like Shutterstock.
About the copy space I will try to keep that in mind. I actually thought I was already creating versions with a decent amount of copy space, but apparently not.  :-[

But, Annie, this is all good advice to get more sales overall, but I am not sure it explains why on Adobe I can't get new images to sell? Because for me it's really a problem that stands out on Adobe. This year around Halloween I wasn't really able to establish and decent bestseller, but last year for example I added a series of images that performed well on ALL agencies - Expect on Adobe. 0 sales there. So for me it's really Adobe that fails to promote my new work and I am not sure image size or copy space is the reason why new images sell on other agencies but not on Adobe? That's what baffles me. I am not complaining about poor sales in general, just how on Adobe my newer works seems to stay unnoticed.

Ok, I just had another quick look at your Halloween searching by fresh images - and I see a lot of pumpkins and a lot of orange. Very traditional.

I dont shoot pumpkins anymore because that subject is too oversaturated for me. My thought is, its already done so why shoot it.

I made killing on AS this October - and I can give this away now because Halloween is over - I looked at Pinterest for what was trending a few months ago - and it was PINK halloween. So, this year I did one big Halloween party table shoot in pink, black and white theme, and lots of background flatlays - and some of my images and stop motion videos made it to the first page of those respective searches on AS. A couple on SS as well. It was big hit. Not a lot of competition. Thats what you have to go for.

But that's all the tips and trade secrets from me for now  - I dont want to give too much away on a public forum. lol ;-)


Firn, I think you're a great photographer. I love your puppies. So cute. You've done extremely well for someone who only started a few years ago. I think you just need a few tweaks here and there and you can do even better.

But AS's algorithm is great if you can find new stuff that designers want. A friend explained this me just this morning: "Yes, I like Adobe, remember they have that 30 days rank thing, then images are pretty well fixed where they are. Early views and sales are important. Which is good for your current type of material, instead of long run kind of things."
Pumpkins and "traditional" Halloween stuff don't do well for me on Halloween. What sells well for me are my dogs - same as on all other holidays. That's where I make the most money with. The shoot I was talking about that failed so miserably on Adobe was from this one: https://www.shutterstock.com/de/image-photo/french-buldog-dog-wearing-red-halloween-1831416523 (https://www.shutterstock.com/de/image-photo/french-buldog-dog-wearing-red-halloween-1831416523)
So much work, I sew all the costumes myself, drove all the way to a cemetary where I could take dogs, embarassed myself by desecrating graves and then none of the images sold on Adobe at all. That was disappointing.  :(
I admit I don't look out so much for new trends, that's certainly something I have to look into. But as said, since it's my dogs that sell well and I like to stick to that as it works for me I am not sure trends is something I can implement there. Though, thinking about it, actually I could probably have made some "pink Halloween" themes with my dogs too.
Again, thanky ou for your advice. Thanks for taking the time! I will try to work on my copy space issue and try to look out more for new trends.

OK> another tip. I am trying not to be too negative. So dont worry too much about what I say - only take on what you think is ok. In the bulldog wearing red halloween pic - there is too much distraction in the background. Another angle perhaps?  If I was a designer looking for a pic like that - I would move on to something else. Because of lack of copy space usually.

What I do is shoot something like that with a full background is have one like that - and then move everything else to the side and shoot with a lot of copy space. Or for your puppy I might have brought him home and shoot him against a plain background with lots of negative space in a studio shot. And then see what sells most.

Your doggy pics are great though and wow, you do a great job on the costumes! I didnt know that. Well, play to your strengths, I always say. Your doggy pics and costumes are great.

Thank you very much for taking all this effort. I am not taking it as being negative. I always welcome advice when it's constructive and actually gives me an idea of what to improve.
I  have another one with that costume that should have more than enough copy space, as it's isolated:
https://www.shutterstock.com/de/image-photo/french-buldog-dog-red-devil-halloween-1792920889 (https://www.shutterstock.com/de/image-photo/french-buldog-dog-red-devil-halloween-1792920889)
But I could not say one sells more than the other. But maybe isolated images is a whole other topic altogether. I don't know.

I just wanted to write how my best selling dog photo on SS and Adobe (two completely dfferent photos) don't have proper copy space at all and still sell well, but actually I was wrong. I looked through my folders where I collect screenshot of all online uses I can find and even though these images don't have much copy space in many cases the people buying them still added text to the empty areas, even though there was't much space available. You are definitly right with the copy space being something that buyers are looking for. As said, I thought I often tried to implement copy space, but it looks like I have to pay more attention to this. Thank you very much.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: thijsdegraaf on November 12, 2021, 06:20
Fan of Annie's work (watched from the Shutterstock forum often). Not from Social Media. I never read that, but understand that it can be useful for sales. I don't have very expensive equipment, know a lot about insects, but that's not a subject that you sell a lot of, or you have to spend much more money on lenses, lighting.
So I don't mind, understand that my sales are not very high. I do like the fact that I can pay my provider of my website with the earnings of the photos, that I have money left over and that the earnings continue to rise.
I do find it strange that I didn't sell anything at Adobe in November, while November is not a bad month. But according to the probability calculation, it is probably not very special either. Who knows next week will be much better.  ;)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Annie on November 12, 2021, 07:03
@Firn.  Yay! Finally after all my 'nagging', someone can actually prove that buyers love copy space. lol. Thats great, Firn, that you have all those shots of how your photos have been used. Keep it up - that in itself should be more useful than anything else. Know your buyers! (another one of my nagging sayings. lol)

This is one of my favourite shots of yours. I absolutely love it.

https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/easter-bunny-dog-brown-french-bulldogs-1926758186 (https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/easter-bunny-dog-brown-french-bulldogs-1926758186)

You've really nailed it here. The blurred background looks great and very professional. Nothing distracting in the background to distract the eye. The colors and tones in the shot look fabulous and complement your main subject. A great 'halo' light around the dog's head. Lots of really good light and dark contrasts in the shot. The expression on your puppy's face is gorgeous.

You see? You are a great photographer. You probably dont have to have isolated shots if you can produce pics like this. For holiday shots, I would add a couple of small props - a couple of small easter eggs - to make it a bit more Easter-y. And maybe just a bit more copy space. But that's just me.



@thijs Thanks! Social media trends don't always work for everyone. It depends on what you're shooting. I think for animals and insects, especially after reading more about what Firn said, its probably more about getting a great looking shot.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: For Real on November 12, 2021, 13:07
the last several replies is why I join this site! Love it. Taking notes  8)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Roscoe on November 13, 2021, 03:32
the last several replies is why I join this site! Love it. Taking notes  8)
This! Enjoyed reading the inspiring discussion too!
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: DOP on November 13, 2021, 04:53
Annie, Firn: maybe you could do a regular 'celebrity' discussion slot for us now and again  8)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: For Real on November 13, 2021, 15:24
Annie, Firn: maybe you could do a regular 'celebrity' discussion slot for us now and again  8)

I second that motion  8)

Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Annie on November 13, 2021, 17:38
LOL. This is hilarious and a bit embarrassing. Not sure what else we can do.

*SisterAct*


But it shows that people are looking for real answers to real problems in microstock. And not just all the usual grumbling. Which is a good sign.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: thijsdegraaf on November 15, 2021, 08:49
Fan of Annie's work (watched from the Shutterstock forum often). Not from Social Media. I never read that, but understand that it can be useful for sales. I don't have very expensive equipment, know a lot about insects, but that's not a subject that you sell a lot of, or you have to spend much more money on lenses, lighting.
So I don't mind, understand that my sales are not very high. I do like the fact that I can pay my provider of my website with the earnings of the photos, that I have money left over and that the earnings continue to rise.
I do find it strange that I didn't sell anything at Adobe in November, while November is not a bad month. But according to the probability calculation, it is probably not very special either. Who knows next week will be much better.  ;)

Yippee! My first two sales this month from Adobe. Only unfortunately twice 0.33. But because of the number I am a bit closer to permission to upload my more commercial photos.
And since yesterday in level 4 at Shutterstock. Only my first sale after that was of course 0.10  ;D
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on November 15, 2021, 08:59
Fan of Annie's work (watched from the Shutterstock forum often). Not from Social Media. I never read that, but understand that it can be useful for sales. I don't have very expensive equipment, know a lot about insects, but that's not a subject that you sell a lot of, or you have to spend much more money on lenses, lighting.
So I don't mind, understand that my sales are not very high. I do like the fact that I can pay my provider of my website with the earnings of the photos, that I have money left over and that the earnings continue to rise.
I do find it strange that I didn't sell anything at Adobe in November, while November is not a bad month. But according to the probability calculation, it is probably not very special either. Who knows next week will be much better.  ;)

Yippee! My first two sales this month from Adobe. Only unfortunately twice 0.33. But because of the number I am a bit closer to permission to upload my more commercial photos.
And since yesterday in level 4 at Shutterstock. Only my first sale after that was of course 0.10  ;D


Congrats, Thijs!

But one question: is there an upload limit at AS? Never heard of this before. Or was it a joke?
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: thijsdegraaf on November 15, 2021, 09:14
Fan of Annie's work (watched from the Shutterstock forum often). Not from Social Media. I never read that, but understand that it can be useful for sales. I don't have very expensive equipment, know a lot about insects, but that's not a subject that you sell a lot of, or you have to spend much more money on lenses, lighting.
So I don't mind, understand that my sales are not very high. I do like the fact that I can pay my provider of my website with the earnings of the photos, that I have money left over and that the earnings continue to rise.
I do find it strange that I didn't sell anything at Adobe in November, while November is not a bad month. But according to the probability calculation, it is probably not very special either. Who knows next week will be much better.  ;)

 

Yippee! My first two sales this month from Adobe. Only unfortunately twice 0.33. But because of the number I am a bit closer to permission to upload my more commercial photos.
And since yesterday in level 4 at Shutterstock. Only my first sale after that was of course 0.10  ;D


Congrats, Thijs!

But one question: is there an upload limit at AS? Never heard of this before. Or was it a joke?

Thanks Wilm
Not a joke. Until now I am not allowed to upload photos with illustrative editorial content. That's only allowed if you've sold more than hundred photos, I thought.
That will take a while, because I don't sell a lot on AS. I have many photos suitable for that. I hope I get in January approval.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on November 15, 2021, 10:32
Fan of Annie's work (watched from the Shutterstock forum often). Not from Social Media. I never read that, but understand that it can be useful for sales. I don't have very expensive equipment, know a lot about insects, but that's not a subject that you sell a lot of, or you have to spend much more money on lenses, lighting.
So I don't mind, understand that my sales are not very high. I do like the fact that I can pay my provider of my website with the earnings of the photos, that I have money left over and that the earnings continue to rise.
I do find it strange that I didn't sell anything at Adobe in November, while November is not a bad month. But according to the probability calculation, it is probably not very special either. Who knows next week will be much better.  ;)

 

Yippee! My first two sales this month from Adobe. Only unfortunately twice 0.33. But because of the number I am a bit closer to permission to upload my more commercial photos.
And since yesterday in level 4 at Shutterstock. Only my first sale after that was of course 0.10  ;D


Congrats, Thijs!

But one question: is there an upload limit at AS? Never heard of this before. Or was it a joke?

Thanks Wilm
Not a joke. Until now I am not allowed to upload photos with illustrative editorial content. That's only allowed if you've sold more than hundred photos, I thought.
That will take a while, because I don't sell a lot on AS. I have many photos suitable for that. I hope I get in January approval.


Okay, Thijs, now I get it. Yes, I know about the illustrative editorials in combination with sales. I was probably just confused because you used the term "commercial photos". But you didn't mean the license type, but your personal commercial success.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Uncle Pete on November 15, 2021, 10:33

Congrats, Thijs!

But one question: is there an upload limit at AS? Never heard of this before. Or was it a joke?

Thanks Wilm
Not a joke. Until now I am not allowed to upload photos with illustrative editorial content. That's only allowed if you've sold more than hundred photos, I thought.
That will take a while, because I don't sell a lot on AS. I have many photos suitable for that. I hope I get in January approval.

Yes, not so much an upload limit as content type restriction for new people. Yes: Contributors with 100 or more downloads in their account history can submit illustrative editorial content. Which used to be Gold members only = over 10,000 and then they dropped it to anyone Silver = over 999. I don't know if they use those terms anymore. 33% is the base level.

Anyone who wants to know, go to your account, click Dashboard > Timeframe (upper left) and Lifetime.  https://contributor.stock.adobe.com/en/portfolio

Lifetime Licenses - excludes free downloads
   
Minimum Royalty Amount  (per licensed standard asset)
0-999           $0.33
1,000-9,999 $0.36
Over 10,000 $0.38
   
Read about it here:  https://helpx.adobe.com/stock/contributor/help/royalty-details.html  Updated Sept. 2021

My current RPD for this years downloads is $.97 which means, most of my downloads are not 36¢  8)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on November 15, 2021, 11:12

Congrats, Thijs!

But one question: is there an upload limit at AS? Never heard of this before. Or was it a joke?

Thanks Wilm
Not a joke. Until now I am not allowed to upload photos with illustrative editorial content. That's only allowed if you've sold more than hundred photos, I thought.
That will take a while, because I don't sell a lot on AS. I have many photos suitable for that. I hope I get in January approval.


My current RPD for this years downloads is $.97

I'm at $1,25 at AS vs. $0,61 at shutterstock. More than twice as much. Since the introduction of the new earnings structure my RPD at shutterstock decreased by 15.3% at shutterstock.

Since my downloads and revenues at AS are very constant (apart from the monthly differences), but those at shutterstock are declining, it is clear that AS now brings in more money than shutterstock - in contrast to before. And the poll results also show that it is obviously the same for most contributors. The numbers used to be the other way around. Shutterstock was always in first place. I am very sure that this trend will continue and strengthen.

In addition, there is another medium- to long-term problem for shutterstock from my point of view. If revenues no longer cover production costs, image styles and content will change and become more influenced by the cultural origin of the countries where images will be produced in the future. This may mean that buyers from the countries where new images are no longer being created will no longer be able to find the image material that suits their cultural background. Models, architecture, graphic styles, colors, layouts, etc. are all influenced by our cultural background. And this is naturally different in the various regions of the world.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: thijsdegraaf on November 15, 2021, 11:46

Congrats, Thijs!

But one question: is there an upload limit at AS? Never heard of this before. Or was it a joke?

Thanks Wilm
Not a joke. Until now I am not allowed to upload photos with illustrative editorial content. That's only allowed if you've sold more than hundred photos, I thought.
That will take a while, because I don't sell a lot on AS. I have many photos suitable for that. I hope I get in January approval.

Yes, not so much an upload limit as content type restriction for new people. Yes: Contributors with 100 or more downloads in their account history can submit illustrative editorial content. Which used to be Gold members only = over 10,000 and then they dropped it to anyone Silver = over 999. I don't know if they use those terms anymore. 33% is the base level.

Anyone who wants to know, go to your account, click Dashboard > Timeframe (upper left) and Lifetime.  https://contributor.stock.adobe.com/en/portfolio

Lifetime Licenses - excludes free downloads
   
Minimum Royalty Amount  (per licensed standard asset)
0-999           $0.33
1,000-9,999 $0.36
Over 10,000 $0.38
   
Read about it here:  https://helpx.adobe.com/stock/contributor/help/royalty-details.html  Updated Sept. 2021

My current RPD for this years downloads is $.97 which means, most of my downloads are not 36¢  8)

I didn't know that. Thanks Pete. Doesn't matter, because it takes a while before I reach 0.36. Reminds me of the good old days of Shutterstock.
I'll be glad when I reach 100, because the days are short now in the Netherlands and mostly cloudy like today.
Then I have enough time to upload photos on A.S.
I have no patience for television.  ;)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Annie on November 15, 2021, 15:56


Thank you very much for taking all this effort. I am not taking it as being negative. I always welcome advice when it's constructive and actually gives me an idea of what to improve.
I  have another one with that costume that should have more than enough copy space, as it's isolated:
https://www.shutterstock.com/de/image-photo/french-buldog-dog-red-devil-halloween-1792920889 (https://www.shutterstock.com/de/image-photo/french-buldog-dog-red-devil-halloween-1792920889)
But I could not say one sells more than the other. But maybe isolated images is a whole other topic altogether. I don't know.

I just wanted to write how my best selling dog photo on SS and Adobe (two completely dfferent photos) don't have proper copy space at all and still sell well, but actually I was wrong. I looked through my folders where I collect screenshot of all online uses I can find and even though these images don't have much copy space in many cases the people buying them still added text to the empty areas, even though there was't much space available. You are definitly right with the copy space being something that buyers are looking for. As said, I thought I often tried to implement copy space, but it looks like I have to pay more attention to this. Thank you very much.

Look what I saw on Pinterest, Firn - another one to add to your online uses!

https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/623748617151939273/ (https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/623748617151939273/)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Firn on November 15, 2021, 16:01


Look what I saw on Pinterest, Firn - another one to add to your online uses!

https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/623748617151939273/ (https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/623748617151939273/)

 ;D Thank you!
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Roscoe on November 16, 2021, 03:30
I didn't know that. Thanks Pete. Doesn't matter, because it takes a while before I reach 0.36. Reminds me of the good old days of Shutterstock.
I'll be glad when I reach 100, because the days are short now in the Netherlands and mostly cloudy like today.
Then I have enough time to upload photos on A.S.
I have no patience for television.  ;)

Just a small tip: you can submit your editorial content to Adobe via Wirestock.
For some weird reason Adobe doesn't seem to accept Illustrative Editorial anymore from Wirestock, but just regular editorial shouldn't be a problem.
You can upload your illustrative editorial content on your personal account later, when you reach the downloads threshold.

Right about television by the way. Geen bal op de TV! ;-)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: DOP on November 16, 2021, 04:44
I didn't know that. Thanks Pete. Doesn't matter, because it takes a while before I reach 0.36. Reminds me of the good old days of Shutterstock.
I'll be glad when I reach 100, because the days are short now in the Netherlands and mostly cloudy like today.
Then I have enough time to upload photos on A.S.
I have no patience for television.  ;)

Just a small tip: you can submit your editorial content to Adobe via Wirestock.
For some weird reason Adobe doesn't seem to accept Illustrative Editorial anymore from Wirestock, but just regular editorial shouldn't be a problem.
You can upload your illustrative editorial content on your personal account later, when you reach the downloads threshold.

Right about television by the way. Geen bal op de TV! ;-)

My experience of Adobe editorial via Wirestock is different to yours.
My regular editorial are rejected when they have people in them but my illustrative are accepted.
By-the-way, on the subject of TV, I don't watch it either  :)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Roscoe on November 16, 2021, 07:07
My experience of Adobe editorial via Wirestock is different to yours.
My regular editorial are rejected when they have people in them but my illustrative are accepted.
By-the-way, on the subject of TV, I don't watch it either  :)

Strange! My illustrative editorials to Adobe via Wirestock are rejected due to ... being illustrative editorial! (Illustrative Editorial Issue)
No harm done, I just submit them via my personal account on Adobe, with all of them being accepted.
Weird, but whatever.

Regarding editorial images with clearly recognizable people: they are indeed also rejected by Adobe via Wirestock.
I don't know exactly why, because other agencies seem to accept them.
Other editorial images to Adobe via Wirestock are accepted without too much hassle, and they are generating sales.
They are in fact my main source of income on Wirestock, as I still submit a lot of my other content via my personal accounts.
Still waiting for my first direct sale on Wirestock, or Extra Channels bucks.

Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Annie on November 17, 2021, 18:32


Look what I saw on Pinterest, Firn - another one to add to your online uses!

https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/623748617151939273/ (https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/623748617151939273/)

 ;D Thank you!

Seeing there is a bit of interest in our conversation here, Firn, I thought of a couple more things to add that may help.

When you said how you went to all that trouble with the graveyard and Halloween shoot, and it didnt pay off, I really felt for you. Wasting a big shoot and lots of effort can be very disheartening. To avoid that, making keywords work for you, and how a bit of research prior to the shoot may be able to boost sales.

For example, with your Easter puppy - the photo that I really love - if you looked at SS's dropdown menu when you type in Easter, you will get the top 10 or so most searched keywords by buyers. In this case, if you put a small easter basket with easter eggs next to the puppy, you would have opened the photo up to more top 10 keywords: Easter Eggs, Chocolate, Easter Basket, and Easter Egg Hunt. That's the thing you need to aim for.

The other thing I usually do is look at what's on the top page of your particular search on both Adobe and SS. And I also look at what's popular on social media. BTW, that's how I ended up seeing your Halloween Devil pic on Pinterest. After doing that search, the next day Pinterest's algorithm came up with a whole lot of other holiday doggy pics - and lo and behold - there was yours!

For this exercise, I looked at 'Christmas Dog Photography' on Pinterest, and the top pages for "Christmas Dog" on AS & SS. You immediately get an idea of what's popular. Don't copy any of the photos of course - but rather look at the elements of those pics that you can incorporate into your shots. Things like copy space, isolated on white, isolated on color backdrops, full frame decorated pics and what's great about them, sizes, ratios (banners vs 3:2), emotions (cuteness, humour, etc). These are the things that buyers like and/or need.

For example, this photo was popular on both sites: https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/new-year-christmas-concept-dog-wearing-1531627820 (https://www.shutterstock.com/image-photo/new-year-christmas-concept-dog-wearing-1531627820)
Its different. The color is a bit unusual but eye-catching, lots of copy space of course. Unique and trendy way of cropping, large 6k pixels, very cute puppy face. Great color coordination - it looks like they color-matched the backdrop with the green in the reindeer ears. Thats the reason, IMO, why the colors in that photo worked.  Overall its a very unique and eye-catching photo.

Now of course, people shouldn't rush out and copy that. As I said - its already been done so don't bother. Think of something else that incorporates all the reasons why that is a good shot. Number one reason, IMO, is that its unquie.

And guess what else I saw - yep! You got one of your pics on Page 1 of Christmas Dog search. What to go! Yeah!! Well done.

Anyway, in summary, a bit of planning like that before a shoot can help you compose and know the shots you need beforehand. A little bit of planning and research goes a long way in my books.

I hope that helps.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: RalfLiebhold on November 18, 2021, 02:15
Thank you Annie, these are really very valuable tips  :D
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: pkphotos on November 18, 2021, 02:42
stock is dead, crypto is the only way forward
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: CSImages on November 18, 2021, 05:09


Thank you very much for taking all this effort. I am not taking it as being negative. I always welcome advice when it's constructive and actually gives me an idea of what to improve.
I  have another one with that costume that should have more than enough copy space, as it's isolated:
https://www.shutterstock.com/de/image-photo/french-buldog-dog-red-devil-halloween-1792920889 (https://www.shutterstock.com/de/image-photo/french-buldog-dog-red-devil-halloween-1792920889)
But I could not say one sells more than the other. But maybe isolated images is a whole other topic altogether. I don't know.

I just wanted to write how my best selling dog photo on SS and Adobe (two completely dfferent photos) don't have proper copy space at all and still sell well, but actually I was wrong. I looked through my folders where I collect screenshot of all online uses I can find and even though these images don't have much copy space in many cases the people buying them still added text to the empty areas, even though there was't much space available. You are definitly right with the copy space being something that buyers are looking for. As said, I thought I often tried to implement copy space, but it looks like I have to pay more attention to this. Thank you very much.

Look what I saw on Pinterest, Firn - another one to add to your online uses!

https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/623748617151939273/ (https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/623748617151939273/)

Funny Stuff !!  :D
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on November 18, 2021, 05:33
There was a desire for something positive here in the forum. So I'm going to contribute something to that.

Nearly 600 downloads so far. Obviously this November will become better than November 2019 and almost the same as November 2020 - at least concerning downloads. This is a positive result for me personally because I have uploaded very little in the recent past. I'm surprised this hasn't had a negative impact on download numbers. However, the fact that it was worse in 2019 may also have been due to the initial effects of Corona - the economy was pretty much paralyzed then - obviously more than at the moment.

Also, I can post a round number on shutterstock from this morning. That's significantly less than Annie and others have, but I'm still happy.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: DOP on November 18, 2021, 05:54
Congratulations Wilm.
74K.  Wow.
Almost as many as me ..  8)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on November 18, 2021, 16:16
Congratulations Wilm.
74K.  Wow.
Almost as many as me ..  8)

Hi Debbie,

I figured you'd hit the six-figure downloads long ago. But you are always so modest - so I was not sure.  8) ;D
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: DOP on November 18, 2021, 16:34
Congratulations Wilm.
74K.  Wow.
Almost as many as me ..  8)

Hi Debbie,

I figured you'd hit the six-figure downloads long ago. But you are always so modest - so I was not sure.  8) ;D

I wish...

And you got all those 'teensy weensy' downloads with your 'teensy weensy' port Wilm.

You clearly went wrong there and should have uploaded many thousands more  ;D
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: whosvegas on November 19, 2021, 06:59
Today for the first time, i had 10 downloads on Shutterstock in one day, all < $0,15

Should i be happy? :)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: thijsdegraaf on November 19, 2021, 07:27
Today for the first time, i had 10 downloads on Shutterstock in one day, all < $0,15

Should i be happy? :)

At the beginning of the year you should be happy about it, because then you are a level higher earlier. Now it doesn't matter much.
Maybe because your photos are increasing in ranking?  :)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Roscoe on November 19, 2021, 10:36
Today for the first time, i had 10 downloads on Shutterstock in one day, all < $0,15

Should i be happy? :)

Sounds like mixed feelings.

I try to determine how I feel about it by looking at my aggregated earnings across all the agencies I contribute to over a bigger period of time.

Microstock can be very fluctuative. After two and a half years of contributing to microstock agencies, I learned that a run of bad days, weeks or even months can be compensated by good ones. Or a temporarily struggling agency can be compensated by an agency that's on a roll.

Spread your eggs, don't let a stubbornly struggling chicken ruin your day and look at how the bigger picture looks for you.
Then make up your feelings :)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: For Real on November 19, 2021, 10:42
Today for the first time, i had 10 downloads on Shutterstock in one day, all < $0,15

Should i be happy? :)

Yes, It's a start that could lead to much more. I remember doing a dance in the house on my first sale in 2011  8)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Uncle Pete on November 19, 2021, 15:42
Today for the first time, i had 10 downloads on Shutterstock in one day, all < $0,15

Should i be happy? :)

At the beginning of the year you should be happy about it, because then you are a level higher earlier. Now it doesn't matter much.
Maybe because your photos are increasing in ranking?  :)

When I think about this, I can't really be happy when I get a 17c download, because of my higher level, instead of a 10c download. I keep remembering when I was new and 25c was the lowest, crummiest commission, and how I moved up and up. Now we don't just have levels, that are almost irrelevant, we get reset every January.  :(

Rock and a hard place. Give up and keep taking the money or stand up and get nothing?
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on November 19, 2021, 16:07

You clearly went wrong there and should have uploaded many thousands more  ;D

In my next life I will try, Deb.  :P
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on November 19, 2021, 16:11
Today for the first time, i had 10 downloads on Shutterstock in one day, all < $0,15

Should i be happy? :)

Congrats! And yes, you should be happy if it was the first time from my Point of view. No matter what it brought in.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: DOP on November 19, 2021, 16:32

You clearly went wrong there and should have uploaded many thousands more  ;D

In my next life I will try, Deb.  :P

I was being ironic Wilm.
You are a prime example where quality over quantity works.
I could probably have uploaded tens of thousands more images than you and have sold a fraction of what you have sold.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Pacesetter on November 19, 2021, 17:48
iStock / Getty was good for me in October as the details have just emerged. In fact my BME since joining the agency, though the royalties are pretty low (19% for images and video combined). Videos were the big earner here. Shutterstock is powering on this month with some pretty good video sales and even a couple of good image sales. Adobe's free image giveaway is clearly working very well, shame it is killing sales this month. Pond5 barely has a pulse. Overall though pretty good as this is all helpful while I'm going through a household move interstate.   
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on November 19, 2021, 18:06

You clearly went wrong there and should have uploaded many thousands more  ;D

In my next life I will try, Deb.  :P

I was being ironic Wilm.
You are a prime example where quality over quantity works.
I could probably have uploaded tens of thousands more images than you and have sold a fraction of what you have sold.

I know, Debbie. We've known each other long enough for that. And thank you - again - for your kind words.

If I was more motivated, I would have uploaded more pictures. But of course we are not talking about thousands and not hundreds. In fact, I would pretty much know what I would produce. But right now, I just don't have the drive. Maybe it will come again.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on November 19, 2021, 18:12
Adobe's free image giveaway is clearly working very well, shame it is killing sales this month.

I did my personal  math and came to the conclusion that Adobe's free selection is a losing proposition. It flushes money into the cash once and then brings losses for the remaining 11 months. That is the reason why I do not participate.

In addition, I firmly believe that the campaign produces false impulses that, on balance, harm the entire industry.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Annie on November 19, 2021, 19:06
My SS revenue this month has finally taken over AS. It took a little longer this November, but all I needed was a few high large commissions/sales and SS once again has taken the lead.

You take the good with the bad with SS, but in the long run SS has always been the best performer for me.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Pacesetter on November 19, 2021, 19:28
Adobe's free image giveaway is clearly working very well, shame it is killing sales this month.

I did my personal  math and came to the conclusion that Adobe's free selection is a losing proposition. It flushes money into the cash once and then brings losses for the remaining 11 months. That is the reason why I do not participate.

In addition, I firmly believe that the campaign produces false impulses that, on balance, harm the entire industry.

Totally agree Wilm, I've never participated in this program either.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: DOP on November 28, 2021, 14:27
As the tortoise carrying my sales meanders on arthritic legs towards the end of another month I wonder ... how are others doing?
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: SVH on November 28, 2021, 14:39
As the tortoise carrying my sales meanders on arthritic legs towards the end of another month I wonder ... how are others doing?

Shutterstock dead, Istock dead and Adobe (since at least my reshuffle) dead after the first week of November.

But maybe it's just me  ;)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Annie on November 28, 2021, 14:54
As the tortoise carrying my sales meanders on arthritic legs towards the end of another month I wonder ... how are others doing?

Good.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: cascoly on November 28, 2021, 15:59


I did my personal  math and came to the conclusion that Adobe's free selection is a losing proposition. It flushes money into the cash once and then brings losses for the remaining 11 months. That is the reason why I do not participate....

what 'math' leads to that conclusion? even for those with reduced sales (and many are reorting no reduction in sales), correlation is not causation
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on November 28, 2021, 16:36


I did my personal  math and came to the conclusion that Adobe's free selection is a losing proposition. It flushes money into the cash once and then brings losses for the remaining 11 months. That is the reason why I do not participate....

what 'math' leads to that conclusion? even for those with reduced sales (and many are reorting no reduction in sales), correlation is not causation

I checked how many of my images that Adobe Stock had selected for free selection were downloaded from AS over a four-week period and what revenue I generated. I extrapolated the revenue over a 12 month period. If sales continue like this for the remaining 11 months, I will not make a financial profit by releasing them in free selection.

I based this on the numbers I know from many other providers. So I can get an approximate idea of what percentage of the images AS has selected from my portfolio for the free selection would be accepted.

In addition, the images will continue to be purchased from other agencies. So there would be the additional risk that they no longer bring in anything there when the buyers see that they cost nothing at AS.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Pacesetter on November 28, 2021, 22:46
As the tortoise carrying my sales meanders on arthritic legs towards the end of another month I wonder ... how are others doing?

Shutterstock dead, Istock dead and Adobe (since at least my reshuffle) dead after the first week of November.

But maybe it's just me  ;)

Good on Shutterstock, poor everywhere else tho.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Mimi the Cat on November 29, 2021, 00:40
Compared to the last 4 months this month is 50% down  :'(
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Roscoe on November 29, 2021, 03:38
Decent but below October/November expectations for iStock/Getty and Shutterstock. The positive side of me expected a slight peak, which didn't came.
But I did had my best month ever at Adobe Stock. 

What really stands out for me is the lack of sales volume at smaller agencies.
They shrunk even more the past two or three months.
I really wonder: how long are they able to keep their boat afloat?

Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Pacesetter on November 29, 2021, 06:47
As the tortoise carrying my sales meanders on arthritic legs towards the end of another month I wonder ... how are others doing?

Shutterstock dead, Istock dead and Adobe (since at least my reshuffle) dead after the first week of November.

But maybe it's just me  ;)

Good on Shutterstock, poor everywhere else tho.

Perhaps should add that I had my BME on iStock last month.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: cascoly on November 29, 2021, 14:19




what 'math' leads to that conclusion? even for those with reduced sales (and many are reorting no reduction in sales), correlation is not causation

I checked how many of my images that Adobe Stock had selected for free selection were downloaded from AS over a four-week period and what revenue I generated. I extrapolated the revenue over a 12 month period. If sales continue like this for the remaining 11 months, I will not make a financial profit by releasing them in free selection.
first, thanks for supplying some details.

i'm confused though, AS said the images selected for free were those that HADN'T generated any income. also, how did you decide which 4-week period to use?  given how stochastic the market is, extrapolating is unlikely to be statistically significant over any such period.   

Quote

In addition, the images will continue to be purchased from other agencies. So there would be the additional risk that they no longer bring in anything there when the buyers see that they cost nothing at AS.
as has been discussed many times, there's little evidence buyers shop across agencies, esp'ly if they have subscriptions.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Level6 on November 29, 2021, 14:43
stock is dead, crypto is the only way forward

Crypto to day/options trading or run a lemonade stand in winter will make you a better living than stock video/photos these days sadly....
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on November 29, 2021, 17:35




what 'math' leads to that conclusion? even for those with reduced sales (and many are reorting no reduction in sales), correlation is not causation

I checked how many of my images that Adobe Stock had selected for free selection were downloaded from AS over a four-week period and what revenue I generated. I extrapolated the revenue over a 12 month period. If sales continue like this for the remaining 11 months, I will not make a financial profit by releasing them in free selection.
first, thanks for supplying some details.

i'm confused though, AS said the images selected for free were those that HADN'T generated any income. also, how did you decide which 4-week period to use?  given how stochastic the market is, extrapolating is unlikely to be statistically significant over any such period.   

Quote

I do not know the source of your information, but it is wrong.

I currently have 68 images that are eligible for free selection. And these images have reached more than 500 downloads so far.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Level6 on November 29, 2021, 19:36
Decent but below October/November expectations for iStock/Getty and Shutterstock. The positive side of me expected a slight peak, which didn't came.
But I did had my best month ever at Adobe Stock. 

What really stands out for me is the lack of sales volume at smaller agencies.
They shrunk even more the past two or three months.
I really wonder: how long are they able to keep their boat afloat?

Probably not too much longer, no one can compete with free, unless they are selling contributors content in bulk under the table they might start folding.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: HalfFull on November 30, 2021, 03:39
Decent but below October/November expectations for iStock/Getty and Shutterstock. The positive side of me expected a slight peak, which didn't came.
But I did had my best month ever at Adobe Stock. 

What really stands out for me is the lack of sales volume at smaller agencies.
They shrunk even more the past two or three months.
I really wonder: how long are they able to keep their boat afloat?

Probably not too much longer, no one can compete with free, unless they are selling contributors content in bulk under the table they might start folding.

October was a BME in terms of vol/£... also had a BDE and BWE. November has been steady and a little below Nov last year but up on the average for Nov.

Ever since the 1st batch if free images being accepted at AS, I haven't seen any reduction in sales... in fact, quite the opposite.

Edit. Just to state I've been doing this FT for about 10 years now... the agencies I deal with over that time have changed but, it's rather nice to see BME etc still cropping up!
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Pacesetter on November 30, 2021, 04:17
The 12 week trend on AS no longer has any high-sale spikes on the trend line which is a first since I started to build my port in 2019. 
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on November 30, 2021, 05:56




what 'math' leads to that conclusion? even for those with reduced sales (and many are reorting no reduction in sales), correlation is not causation

I checked how many of my images that Adobe Stock had selected for free selection were downloaded from AS over a four-week period and what revenue I generated. I extrapolated the revenue over a 12 month period. If sales continue like this for the remaining 11 months, I will not make a financial profit by releasing them in free selection.
first, thanks for supplying some details.

i'm confused though, AS said the images selected for free were those that HADN'T generated any income. also, how did you decide which 4-week period to use?  given how stochastic the market is, extrapolating is unlikely to be statistically significant over any such period.   

Quote

In addition, the images will continue to be purchased from other agencies. So there would be the additional risk that they no longer bring in anything there when the buyers see that they cost nothing at AS.
as has been discussed many times, there's little evidence buyers shop across agencies, esp'ly if they have subscriptions.

Since my downloads at AS are relatively constant, it doesn't really matter which 4-week period I choose.

Here I have made a screenshot. 68 images were suggested by AS for the free section. How many of them would be accepted, I don't know either, of course, but I assume about 10% - according to what I have heard from other contributors. That would be 7 images. Would bring in $35 for a year.

All 68 images had at least 1 download - up to 40 downloads as you can see. Together there were 513.

The red dots show the images that were sold at AS this month.
This year my RPD at AS is $1.23. Extrapolated to a year, 120 sales x $1.23 = $147.60. To bring in the same money, 30 images would have to be accepted in the free section. That would be 44% of the images selected. That many were not accepted at any of the contributors I know.

In addition, there is another important calculation factor that should be taken into account. Many of the selected images have very similar counterparts in my portfolio, many of which were also purchased this month - about 75 times. I am very sure that most of them would not have been bought if there was the very similar image in the free section.

And this is true only for AS. You may be right that customers at other agencies will not look in the free section at AS if they have a subscription elsewhere. But the On Demand, Enhanced and SOD purchases are more interesting anyway. These would then possibly also be omitted if the customers see that they can get the image elsewhere for free.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: thijsdegraaf on November 30, 2021, 08:24
Compared to Shutterstock I have sold very little on AS.
My photos are not unique, so I suspect that similar images can also be found as free, which makes my photos less likely to sell.
I would almost certainly have made more if I had entered the promotion and some of the selected photos had been accepted by Adobe as free.
But..... If nobody had taken part or if Adobe hadn't started this free promotion, I'm sure I would have made more money.
So I continue to object to this system of free photos.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Diana Herrmann on November 30, 2021, 08:54


I did my personal  math and came to the conclusion that Adobe's free selection is a losing proposition. It flushes money into the cash once and then brings losses for the remaining 11 months. That is the reason why I do not participate....

what 'math' leads to that conclusion? even for those with reduced sales (and many are reorting no reduction in sales), correlation is not causation

I checked how many of my images that Adobe Stock had selected for free selection were downloaded from AS over a four-week period and what revenue I generated. I extrapolated the revenue over a 12 month period. If sales continue like this for the remaining 11 months, I will not make a financial profit by releasing them in free selection.

I based this on the numbers I know from many other providers. So I can get an approximate idea of what percentage of the images AS has selected from my portfolio for the free selection would be accepted.

In addition, the images will continue to be purchased from other agencies. So there would be the additional risk that they no longer bring in anything there when the buyers see that they cost nothing at AS.

Adobe doesn't select images for free, we do. I only picked those that didn't have sales. Now I have money instead of nothing.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: thijsdegraaf on November 30, 2021, 09:03


I did my personal  math and came to the conclusion that Adobe's free selection is a losing proposition. It flushes money into the cash once and then brings losses for the remaining 11 months. That is the reason why I do not participate....

what 'math' leads to that conclusion? even for those with reduced sales (and many are reorting no reduction in sales), correlation is not causation

I checked how many of my images that Adobe Stock had selected for free selection were downloaded from AS over a four-week period and what revenue I generated. I extrapolated the revenue over a 12 month period. If sales continue like this for the remaining 11 months, I will not make a financial profit by releasing them in free selection.

I based this on the numbers I know from many other providers. So I can get an approximate idea of what percentage of the images AS has selected from my portfolio for the free selection would be accepted.

In addition, the images will continue to be purchased from other agencies. So there would be the additional risk that they no longer bring in anything there when the buyers see that they cost nothing at AS.

Adobe doesn't select images for free, we do. I only picked those that didn't have sales. Now I have money instead of nothing.

Of course. We indicate which ones we want to add to the free photos, but Adbe selects from them.
In my answer I indicate that I (just like you) would have earned more if I had participated.
But..... If nobody had taken part or if Adobe hadn't started this free promotion, I'm sure I would have made more money. Because now all my photos have to compete with similar free photos.

It is easy for Wilm to decide, because he assumes that he will earn more if he does not participate (I know his photos and I think he is right).
I earn more if I participate, but I'm against the system. If I were making a whole lot more, I would probably participate. I'm not that principled.  :)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on November 30, 2021, 09:39


I did my personal  math and came to the conclusion that Adobe's free selection is a losing proposition. It flushes money into the cash once and then brings losses for the remaining 11 months. That is the reason why I do not participate....

what 'math' leads to that conclusion? even for those with reduced sales (and many are reorting no reduction in sales), correlation is not causation

I checked how many of my images that Adobe Stock had selected for free selection were downloaded from AS over a four-week period and what revenue I generated. I extrapolated the revenue over a 12 month period. If sales continue like this for the remaining 11 months, I will not make a financial profit by releasing them in free selection.

I based this on the numbers I know from many other providers. So I can get an approximate idea of what percentage of the images AS has selected from my portfolio for the free selection would be accepted.

In addition, the images will continue to be purchased from other agencies. So there would be the additional risk that they no longer bring in anything there when the buyers see that they cost nothing at AS.

Adobe doesn't select images for free, we do. I only picked those that didn't have sales. Now I have money instead of nothing.

Diana,

Adobe selects images as "eligible for free selection".
For me, that's 68 images. All of them had at least one download, as I have shown in the screenshot.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Uncle Pete on November 30, 2021, 12:07

Adobe doesn't select images for free, we do. I only picked those that didn't have sales. Now I have money instead of nothing.

That's right, eligible means nothing as 5-10% seem to be accepted and nothing that I marked do not allow for free was selected.  ;) I can't see how anyone can use as an example, images that were not accepted and they didn't allow to be, as some kind of data for what might have been, since it hasn't happened yet.

Myself I allowed 45 illustrations that have no sales, or less than 3 sales lifetime, anywhere. AS picked two and I have $10. The lifetime earnings for each of those images is under $1 each over the years. Not difficult to see, that I have money in my pocket instead of imagining what might be, that hasn't happened in the past?

as has been discussed many times, there's little evidence buyers shop across agencies, esp'ly if they have subscriptions.

Debated, discussed and for the most part, agreed, that buyers do not shop price and don't shop agencies for the same images, as some have suspected over the years. I'd guess that more recent big deals by agencies are designed to hold clients to the low price contract, make sales stable as the big shared licenses are for a flat rate, and this in effect locks people who have the multi-seat license, into the images from one agency.

What I mean is, buyers are even less likely to shop by price now, than they would have been in the past.

Small time, limited buyers, might shop price, but the people who buy the most and make up the majority of our income, do not. It appears that subscriptions and contracts make up the majority of our download volume?

Sales on Adobe for myself are up 40% for the same 3 month period as 2020. I haven't uploaded a mass of new images either. Purely personal, I admit, but same images, same place, and sales are up since the free images program. Which although I can't attribute the increase to the free images, I can't ignore that sales are up.

Conclusion: My sales have not been hurt by the free image offerings.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: cascoly on November 30, 2021, 12:59
 
Adobe selects images as "eligible for free selection".
For me, that's 68 images. All of them had at least one download, as I have shown in the screenshot.

Adobe said they only selected images that had 4 or fewer DL in the last year. anyway, you choose whether any image is available for the free collection
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Roscoe on December 01, 2021, 02:21
Conclusion: My sales have not been hurt by the free image offerings.
I have the same feeling, looking at short term. My past half year has been very decent despite growing free collections.

But long term is another story I guess. When I look at image credits in media outlets, the amount of Unsplash credits is still on the rise. Also premium outlets, glossy magazines, seem to use them very regularly. They use images from free collections wherever they can. At least that's my observation, and it would be foolish to think that this has no effect on our sales. Without free collections, these images would have generated sales. Probably small subscription sales, true, but still it's quite a volume.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: whosvegas on December 01, 2021, 02:39
Yesterday i had a really big SOD on Shutterstock: $170

Nice!
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on December 01, 2021, 03:36
Second WME.

Only AS and iS performing normal.

DT dead. 123rf nearly dead. CS dead. DP lousy RPD. SS lousy RPD.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: thijsdegraaf on December 01, 2021, 05:31
Shutterstock: OK
Adobe: Slow
Alamy: Dead
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: For Real on December 01, 2021, 10:45
Compared to November 2020 I lost about 10% in $$$ yet I doubled last years output in producing new images.

 For some reason my new images are not selling like most folks where they see instant sales on the first day  :-\
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Level6 on December 01, 2021, 11:19
But long term is another story I guess. When I look at image credits in media outlets, the amount of Unsplash credits is still on the rise. Also premium outlets, glossy magazines, seem to use them very regularly. They use images from free collections wherever they can. At least that's my observation, and it would be foolish to think that this has no effect on our sales. Without free collections, these images would have generated sales. Probably small subscription sales, true, but still it's quite a volume.
[/quote]

You are not wrong about FREE, be it stock agencies free collections or the free stock sites themselves, I am seeing the same thing in Canada, media outlets using stock photos and video now but more and more it's the free sites OR it from an agency that has deal with another agency, just saw Toronto snowstorm coverage on Toronto media via the Chinese communist state media and the photographer was a freelancer selling through Getty, then somehow the Chinese state media got it and our very own Toronto media got it from them.

Even if an agency offers to pay for your images or videos at a fair price to make up their free collection, unless you're planning to retire and walk away from the business it's not worth it.

Media companies and large production companies will use free if they can get it especially if the quality is ok and it fits their needs.

What's needed is an end to free anything but also a forensic accounting of all these deals agencies have and that won't happen and that's why this has become a ticket to bankruptcy.



Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: cascoly on December 01, 2021, 15:17
....
Even if an agency offers to pay for your images or videos at a fair price to make up their free collection, unless you're planning to retire and walk away from the business it's not worth it.

Media companies and large production companies will use free if they can get it especially if the quality is ok and it fits their needs.

What's needed is an end to free anything but also a forensic accounting of all these deals agencies have and that won't happen and that's why this has become a ticket to bankruptcy.

these are the same arguments film stock photographers used when digital microstock started about 20 yrs ago (when a stock image routinely paid $150-300+).

maybe the future of microstock is going to be ALL free images for consumers, with photographers getting 1-time payments of $5 by agencies to build their collections.  that's more than many images would make in their lifetime. 

wrt microstock, photographers need to get out of the artist mind-set - we're not creating fine art; we're feeding a commodity beast. i'd rather make $100 by selling 20 out of a batch of 100, than wait for those 100 to sell 1000 times (probably optimistic estimate)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Level6 on December 01, 2021, 16:13
Media companies and large production companies will use free if they can get it especially if the quality is ok and it fits their needs.

What's needed is an end to free anything but also a forensic accounting of all these deals agencies have and that won't happen and that's why this has become a ticket to bankruptcy.
[/quote]

these are the same arguments film stock photographers used when digital microstock started about 20 yrs ago (when a stock image routinely paid $150-300+).

maybe the future of microstock is going to be ALL free images for consumers, with photographers getting 1-time payments of $5 by agencies to build their collections.  that's more than many images would make in their lifetime. 

wrt microstock, photographers need to get out of the artist mind-set - we're not creating fine art; we're feeding a commodity beast. i'd rather make $100 by selling 20 out of a batch of 100, than wait for those 100 to sell 1000 times (probably optimistic estimate)
[/quote]

Those are good points, that was before my time with the film stock photographers but this fellow does editorial and severe weather, sells direct and for an appropriate price, https://stormhighway.com/footage/rates.php and now that same content can be had for free or nearly free.

As for everything going FREE, I can totally see it going that way for video and stills sadly, agencies buying wholesale is not bad either like you say but they won't buy from everyone so many will be leaving the business one way or another.

I think it's going that way and the smaller independent contributor will find it hard to impossible to continue to make a living here.

Google search up streaming music royalty calculator and see what they make off streaming and downloads now vs selling CD's, artists fought and lost that battle long ago and now you need to be a social media powerhouse, sell merch and tour and even then it's a struggle but not everyone is big enough to tour.   

If you're as big as BTS or OK ONE ROCK and a few others then you can do ok but for the rest you're not making a living of the music.  It's like all forms of digital media just has no value anymore, can't compete with free and you need to give your work away for free to promote your work.

At the end of the day STARTUPS kill industries and put millions out of work, these agencies are all startups, from hard working taxi drivers who lost the battle to UBER to pizza delivery jobs for college students all gone to food delivery apps so this industry.     Startups call it disruption and talk about how great it is to not need humans, I don't see anything great about it.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: RalfLiebhold on December 01, 2021, 16:51


If you're as big as BTS or OK ONE ROCK and a few others then you can do ok but for the rest you're not making a living of the music.  It's like all forms of digital media just has no value anymore, can't compete with free and you need to give your work away for free to promote your work.


Very many good points in your posting.

Digitization has its advantages and disadvantages. The same applies to book authors, who earn much less money with e-books.

I myself have quite a large vinyl record and book collection. To these things I have a special reference, can name authors, song title, singer, album name.

When I download music or books digitally, I usually don't know the author or artist within the next few days. You somehow lose the relationship to things, you only consume.

I miss the times when you explored the world with a printed guidebook without Gps.  And somehow it also has its charm, when you get lost with your paper street map.

o.k., was a bit off topic  ;)
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Wilm on December 01, 2021, 17:38
....
Even if an agency offers to pay for your images or videos at a fair price to make up their free collection, unless you're planning to retire and walk away from the business it's not worth it.

Media companies and large production companies will use free if they can get it especially if the quality is ok and it fits their needs.

What's needed is an end to free anything but also a forensic accounting of all these deals agencies have and that won't happen and that's why this has become a ticket to bankruptcy.


maybe the future of microstock is going to be ALL free images for consumers, with photographers getting 1-time payments of $5 by agencies to build their collections.

I'm not sure I got that right.

Here in Central Europe, no one can produce an image for $5, upload it and create keywords. This contributor would starve.

A portfolio of 20,000! images would bring $100,000. That is nothing compared to the time and cost to create that amount of images.

If that were the future, and I've said this before, the microstock business would be dead in many countries from a contributor perspective.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Level6 on December 01, 2021, 18:11
If that were the future, and I've said this before, the microstock business would be dead in many countries from a contributor perspective.
[/quote]

You're 100% it would be dead in many countries if it isn't already, I do editorial video in Ontario Canada and it's a ticket to bankruptcy, trying to learn swing and options trading and get out of camera work for good, it's literally a ticket to bankruptcy trying to sell on Pond5 and Shutterstock and doing editorial so I don't need to pay models or have a studio and it's still become a complete lost cause.

I knew it was on shaky ground but I think it's basically over as a way to make a living.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Pacesetter on December 01, 2021, 18:58


You're 100% it would be dead in many countries if it isn't already, I do editorial video in Ontario Canada and it's a ticket to bankruptcy, trying to learn swing and options trading and get out of camera work for good, it's literally a ticket to bankruptcy trying to sell on Pond5 and Shutterstock and doing editorial so I don't need to pay models or have a studio and it's still become a complete lost cause.

I knew it was on shaky ground but I think it's basically over as a way to make a living.

What's your historical experience in Microstock? Did you use to make more in times past?
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Level6 on December 01, 2021, 20:57

I knew it was on shaky ground but I think it's basically over as a way to make a living.
[/quote]

What's your historical experience in Microstock? Did you use to make more in times past?
[/quote]

I was doing ok with editorial video mostly on Pond5 and a little on SSTK and Newsflare, then 2021 happened and it slowed and this September income fell to $0 but I did make $80 today on Newsflare,  used to make $3500/month on Pond5 alone so it's quite the drop especially this fall and despite the recession, the fall season is the selling season so I held out some hope, didn't happen.

Now we have most COVID related travel hassles coming back around the world so you'd think stock video and photos would be doing quite well but they are not so I think it's all these deals and partnerships and programs that do everything but drive OUR sales, that, plus the free stuff and changing consumer interests.

It's a few things all added up coming together but if customers can get it for free or nearly free I think it's ending or over.

I do editorial which has helped until now as those clips aren't easily recreated on set and I leave the fine art to those with better equipment and skills but just today I saw this on social media https://twitter.com/MarsScientific/status/1466135315672879109?s=20
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: everest on December 02, 2021, 03:43
At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is yearly revenue. I have made sales for 23000$ (7000$ net)for 1 license and 0.001$ for Getty connect sales. The biggest selling image at Istock has brough me 20.000$ net so more than that big sales. At the best times in micro 2012 I was earning more with them 6 yearly figures than with Getty.

Everyone has to crunch his numbers and see where his work fits. You might be very talented and people want to pay you hundred or thousands of dollars to use your image or you might be very efficient at producing stock. At SS there quite a few with hundred of thousands of images in their portfolio. Quite horrible work many times but hey they sell at low prices and for the customers it is good enough

Stock is not the same for everyone. The same as the stock market. Some make money shorting, others with long investing, other day trading, technical, fundamentals.......That's the beauty of it You have some lee way to adapt your working style to it.

....
Even if an agency offers to pay for your images or videos at a fair price to make up their free collection, unless you're planning to retire and walk away from the business it's not worth it.

Media companies and large production companies will use free if they can get it especially if the quality is ok and it fits their needs.

What's needed is an end to free anything but also a forensic accounting of all these deals agencies have and that won't happen and that's why this has become a ticket to bankruptcy.

Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: cascoly on December 02, 2021, 18:03
...;

At the end of the day STARTUPS kill industries and put millions out of work, these agencies are all startups, from hard working taxi drivers who lost the battle to UBER to pizza delivery jobs for college students all gone to food delivery apps so this industry.     Startups call it disruption and talk about how great it is to not need humans, I don't see anything great about it.

sure - like railroads, oil pioneers, ford, gm,chrysler,ibm, apple,google,amazon,intel,nike,starbucks,...../..... those d'ned startups!
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Pacesetter on December 03, 2021, 06:44
Interesting to see the poll results have Shutterstock in the lead again. Despite the rhetoric, the reality is AdobeStock are performing badly in recent times.
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Roscoe on December 03, 2021, 07:58
Interesting to see the poll results have Shutterstock in the lead again. Despite the rhetoric, the reality is AdobeStock are performing badly in recent times.

Oh right, the poll... just had a look. What's going on at Envato?
It started to rain gold overthere?
Title: Re: This month's sales
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on December 03, 2021, 08:05
Interesting to see the poll results have Shutterstock in the lead again. Despite the rhetoric, the reality is AdobeStock are performing badly in recent times.

More people worship the rising than the setting sun.