Author Topic: Time to create a new sustainable stock agency (Read 19518 times)

everest · « **on:** May 27, 2020, 01:52 »

https://greenice.net/start-stock-photography-website-like-shutterstock/

I wonder if it might be time to create a new stock agency with contributors in mind. Something like Stocksy but more open to contributors and not with a private club vibe.

Transparent , exclusive content (not contributor) with a fair share FOREVER written in capital letters in the contract. Maybe 50% for regular contributors and 60% for all the initial investors.

Reading that website it does seem feasible. There are some big contributors that have established their agencies. I wonder that if they would unite to do something like this it could be done.

If something like this is not done soon we are all doomed, large and small contributors.
No Adobe or large companies present in the Stock Market Exchange or funded by risk capital are going to save it. The story will repeat again and again.

I think there are people out there with the experience to face such a task. The predatory schemes we see all day should have their days counted.

Doind nothing everytime we are slapped in the face will take is nowhere.

everest · « **Reply #1 on:** May 27, 2020, 05:55 »

https://www.aimprosoft.com/blog/how-to-create-a-website-like-shutterstock/

I wonder that this has to be not that difficult to create and also not that expensive with lower storage expenses. I think stocksy did it right. Exclusive content is a must(only content no contributor exclusivity). If you can offer enough exclusive content with quality like Stocksy did buyer will follow along.

Now is a perfect time to create such an initiative. The biggest agencies except Adobe have signaled the path to 0 revenue (once you take into account costs of production and time I guess many are already producing on a loss but those with big portfolios are living of diminishing rents).

As stated in the link I posted I don't think the tech part or costs are the problem. The big question is how many producers would jump ship to such an initiative. I think that the timing is now perfect. Only stormy clouds on the horizon with no expectation to get better in the short or long future.

This will need to come out from top producers. I am thinking in the big contributors in Eastern Europe. With a strong presence of IT specialists I ams sure that if they would be able to unite something very promising could come out after this disastrous move of Shutter.

I would jump in a heart beat with my 24.000 assets (video and images) on such an initiative if the foundation would be commited to their contributors. We don't need just another agency like the dozens that can be seen on the right column. We need an agency fair to contributors in the long run. Stamp a 50% forever on it with strong names of the industry and I would say good riddance to all the other exploiters we all know.

georgep7 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 27, 2020, 06:31 »

Perhaps, maybe, decentralisation is an answer.

Individual people's portfolios united in a big contributor, creators, artists, whatever we are called, INDEX by type: audio, video, photo, illo, vector, whatever other i forgot
kind of yellow pages,

perhaps, maybe,

Could attract some individuals to browse and negotiate some work or prices?

And if this worked, perhaps, maybe, some highlights, blogging, tips, creator highlights section, etc etc etc. Kind of Medium style

If this low cost, easy maintainable INDEX created some traffic, contributors

perhaps, maybe,

Would then thought more seriously to setup a shop in whatever platform.

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #3 on:** May 27, 2020, 07:56 »

Quote from: georgep7 on May 27, 2020, 06:31

Perhaps, maybe, decentralisation is an answer.

Individual people's portfolios united in a big contributor, creators, artists, whatever we are called, INDEX by type: audio, video, photo, illo, vector, whatever other i forgot
kind of yellow pages,

perhaps, maybe,

Could attract some individuals to browse and negotiate some work or prices?

And if this worked, perhaps, maybe, some highlights, blogging, tips, creator highlights section, etc etc etc. Kind of Medium style

If this low cost, easy maintainable INDEX created some traffic, contributors

perhaps, maybe,

Would then thought more seriously to setup a shop in whatever platform.

What you're describing sounds like Photoshelter https://www.photoshelter.com/explore/. A bunch of individual portfolios connected with an agency style front end and unified search function. They also had a Virtual Agency function where you could combine multiple contributor accounts together.

This concept never seemed to take off for them. If I remember correctly they said it was due to money. They would have needed to raise a huge amount to compete against the big agencies so they shut it down.

I think it's a great concept with some challenges that would need to be addressed

Marketing - Large stock companies have millions to invest in sales and marketing which is why they're the biggest. You can see what happens with little to no marketing when you look at 123RF and similar small companies. Where would the millions come from needed for sales teams and marketing campaigns? Or is there a social media genius that could do it on a low budget?
Curation - Some photographers can self evaluate. Others will submit 100 photos of the exact same scene with a slightly different angle which looks like the same photo. Buyers would be turned off by poor selection and quality so there would need to be some level of inspection/rejection. How would this be handled without angering contributors?
Pricing - Would need to be simple and consistent. Buyers would be turned off by multiple pricing models and different pricing for each photo. What should the pricing model be that contributors would feel is fair?

Part of the greatness of stock is a huge network of talented people. Part of the downside is getting such a large group to coordinate and agree on anything.

everest · « **Reply #4 on:** May 27, 2020, 08:36 »

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on May 27, 2020, 07:56

Part of the greatness of stock is a huge network of talented people. Part of the downside is getting such a large group to coordinate and agree on anything.

I have been in Photoshelter for a few years now and it does not work for many of the reasons you explained. I think the biggest one is the disparity of prices, releases etc. The big success of stock sites is consistency. The buyer knows a set of rules that are consistent through the whole site, things that dont happen at Photoshelter (prices,editorial vs commercial,releases,technical rules etc.

A succesful site has to have the same level of parameter for all the content. The last thing you want is to confuse the buyer. The buying experience has to be simple and straightforward. I think quality and exclusivity is king to have a chance. Buyers will find you, maybe slower that if you have tons of marketing funds but they will eventually know about you. Look at sites like Pinterest, Unsplash etc, nobody knew them but word spread like fire quickly. Same happened to Istock and Shutter at the beginning.

As you say the biggest cost would be to review the content. I think that the selection process does not need to be so stringent as Stocksy but it is paramount to have a great algorythm to place on front the quality content and let it push it back what is very niche or low in quality. Storage costs is an issue with video but again there are form to tackle the problem. I think that a group of the strong contributors in the field could really push a succesful business model even in the crowded space nowaday.

I just hope that at some point a "Stocksy like" agency fair but more more open in style and contributors will appear on the playing field.

georgep7 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 27, 2020, 08:47 »

Thank you for explaining, I didn't knew about PhotoShelter.

cobalt · « **Reply #6 on:** May 27, 2020, 08:57 »

The easiest is to support pond5. 40% for non exclusive, 60% for an exclusive port.

And you can set your own prices.

They might be mostly a video agency but they also sell photos.

But of course not the samsvolume as elsewhere.

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #7 on:** May 27, 2020, 09:35 »

Found some old emails about it. It was named Photoshelter Collection and was a strategy to compete with large agencies. They threw in the towel after about a year in late 2008. Wish it had been successful. I remember being excited about it.

Photoshelter Explore still exists and allows search of multiple portfolios.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #8 on:** May 27, 2020, 09:54 »

https://www.microstockgroup.com/microstock-coop/microstock-coop-what-we-actually-want-to-do-ideas/

SuperPhoto · « **Reply #9 on:** May 27, 2020, 10:55 »

Quote from: Sean Locke Photography on May 27, 2020, 09:54

https://www.microstockgroup.com/microstock-coop/microstock-coop-what-we-actually-want-to-do-ideas/

how do you access that link? trying to access it gives this message:

An Error Has Occurred!
The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you.

thirdbornentertainment · « **Reply #10 on:** May 27, 2020, 17:39 »

What about pulling a move similar to BlackBox and submitting our footage to one account for the time being? We will at least hit the highest % on SS quicker if we band together. I dunno, maybe that wouldn't work?

cathyslife · « **Reply #11 on:** May 27, 2020, 17:42 »

Quote from: SuperPhoto on May 27, 2020, 10:55

Quote from: Sean Locke Photography on May 27, 2020, 09:54
https://www.microstockgroup.com/microstock-coop/microstock-coop-what-we-actually-want-to-do-ideas/

how do you access that link? trying to access it gives this message:

An Error Has Occurred!
The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you.

Worked ok for me. Maybe it got fixed?

charged · « **Reply #12 on:** May 27, 2020, 19:15 »

I don't have a dog in this fight, because I don't sell on shutterstock, but what they did is pretty crappy.

Why don't the folks that contribute to stocksy talk to the owners of that site, Bruce and ask him to consider launching a new site, for the masses. Just like iStock use to be when he owned it? Bruce knows how to build and launch and run a mega large stock photo site. I doubt anyone else here is going to know how to launch a site and run it properly, because it takes a great deal of knowledge and it takes a great deal of money. Since stock photos pays nothing, following that logic, I know most of you don't make any real money, therefore you guys can't afford to launch a site without someone like Bruce. I could be way of, but based upon my days in a previous life working in digital advertising many years ago, to launch a mega stock site can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Personals websites are cheap, professional websites built for corporations are mega expensive.

SuperPhoto · « **Reply #13 on:** May 27, 2020, 22:43 »

Quote from: FastRacer on May 27, 2020, 17:42

Quote from: SuperPhoto on May 27, 2020, 10:55
Quote from: Sean Locke Photography on May 27, 2020, 09:54
https://www.microstockgroup.com/microstock-coop/microstock-coop-what-we-actually-want-to-do-ideas/

how do you access that link? trying to access it gives this message:

An Error Has Occurred!
The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you.

Worked ok for me. Maybe it got fixed?

nope, strange, doesn't work. is it typed correctly?

SuperPhoto · « **Reply #14 on:** May 27, 2020, 22:44 »

Quote from: charged on May 27, 2020, 19:15

I don't have a dog in this fight, because I don't sell on shutterstock, but what they did is pretty crappy.

Why don't the folks that contribute to stocksy talk to the owners of that site, Bruce and ask him to consider launching a new site, for the masses. Just like iStock use to be when he owned it? Bruce knows how to build and launch and run a mega large stock photo site. I doubt anyone else here is going to know how to launch a site and run it properly, because it takes a great deal of knowledge and it takes a great deal of money. Since stock photos pays nothing, following that logic, I know most of you don't make any real money, therefore you guys can't afford to launch a site without someone like Bruce. I could be way of, but based upon my days in a previous life working in digital advertising many years ago, to launch a mega stock site can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Personals websites are cheap, professional websites built for corporations are mega expensive.

actually, getting a site set up is not that expensive, nor that time consuming. a skilled programmer (depending on what complexity you want) can put something together in as little as a couple hours, to a couple months.

the challenge is effective marketing, & converting customers to sales, etc...

charged · « **Reply #15 on:** May 28, 2020, 08:18 »

Quote from: SuperPhoto on May 27, 2020, 22:44

Quote from: charged on May 27, 2020, 19:15
I don't have a dog in this fight, because I don't sell on shutterstock, but what they did is pretty crappy.

Why don't the folks that contribute to stocksy talk to the owners of that site, Bruce and ask him to consider launching a new site, for the masses. Just like iStock use to be when he owned it? Bruce knows how to build and launch and run a mega large stock photo site. I doubt anyone else here is going to know how to launch a site and run it properly, because it takes a great deal of knowledge and it takes a great deal of money. Since stock photos pays nothing, following that logic, I know most of you don't make any real money, therefore you guys can't afford to launch a site without someone like Bruce. I could be way of, but based upon my days in a previous life working in digital advertising many years ago, to launch a mega stock site can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Personals websites are cheap, professional websites built for corporations are mega expensive.

actually, getting a site set up is not that expensive, nor that time consuming. a skilled programmer (depending on what complexity you want) can put something together in as little as a couple hours, to a couple months.

the challenge is effective marketing, & converting customers to sales, etc...

How many professional websites have you built? In my past career in digital advertising, I've worked on teams that built the Coca Cola website, New York Jets website, micro sites for Toyota, American Express, Canon, and others. You would be surprised just now many different hands touch a project and how it is easily thousands of billable hours, where every hour is billed at hundred of dollars to the client. This was over ten year ago. The cost to build a professional website is vastly different than building someone's personal blog. I don't know what the staffing is like at Shutterstock, but I can make an uneducated guess. I would guess there is at least 1 if not 2 UI full time person. There would be at least 2 or more full time graphic designer. There would be at least 2 full time developer. There is probably a data scientist that crunches sales data for insight. Then factor in that they are in NYC. You are looking at $700k in salary just to maintain the site. Never mind literally the hundreds of other staff that work there. A professional site is very expensive.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #16 on:** May 28, 2020, 08:52 »

Quote from: SuperPhoto on May 27, 2020, 22:43

Quote from: FastRacer on May 27, 2020, 17:42
Quote from: SuperPhoto on May 27, 2020, 10:55
Quote from: Sean Locke Photography on May 27, 2020, 09:54
https://www.microstockgroup.com/microstock-coop/microstock-coop-what-we-actually-want-to-do-ideas/

how do you access that link? trying to access it gives this message:

An Error Has Occurred!
The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you.

Worked ok for me. Maybe it got fixed?

nope, strange, doesn't work. is it typed correctly?

Works for me, that's strange: https://www.microstockgroup.com/microstock-coop/microstock-coop-what-we-actually-want-to-do-ideas/msg546351/#msg546351

Desintegrator · « **Reply #17 on:** May 28, 2020, 08:56 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on May 28, 2020, 08:52

Quote from: SuperPhoto on May 27, 2020, 22:43
Quote from: FastRacer on May 27, 2020, 17:42
Quote from: SuperPhoto on May 27, 2020, 10:55
Quote from: Sean Locke Photography on May 27, 2020, 09:54
https://www.microstockgroup.com/microstock-coop/microstock-coop-what-we-actually-want-to-do-ideas/

how do you access that link? trying to access it gives this message:

An Error Has Occurred!
The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you.

Worked ok for me. Maybe it got fixed?

nope, strange, doesn't work. is it typed correctly?

Works for me, that's strange: https://www.microstockgroup.com/microstock-coop/microstock-coop-what-we-actually-want-to-do-ideas/msg546351/#msg546351

doesn't work for me either

spike · « **Reply #18 on:** May 28, 2020, 08:57 »

Doesn't work for me either.

Maybe not everyone has the same access privileges as you guys?

mj007 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 28, 2020, 13:50 »

Here is a way to beat SS. Unfortunately I have not the intellect to design this . As a group setup a new site, with free images. Yes free images, might as well be free if SS and the other sites go with this new model. Hard to beat free. Not even the evil SS can beat free. You have a site that is just like every other site with the difference all images/videos are free. To get a free image you have to listen to a 30-60 second add . Just like the adds on youtube. The difference you can't rush are turn off the add. At the end of the advertisement you get a unique number/code for one free picture or video that day. You can get as many pictures per day as you listen to different adds and get different codes.The codes are only good per image per 24 hours. The the payout which I guess is small , you get an advertising fee for showing the add. No this most likely won't get you more money than the slims at SS but free is hard to beat. No sure what those adds pay but I am guessing 20 to 40 cents each. You could also charge a yearly fee like Costco dose, maybe 29 bucks a year to make a little more revenue.

Desintegrator · « **Reply #20 on:** May 28, 2020, 14:02 »

Quote from: mj007 on May 28, 2020, 13:50

Here is a way to beat SS. Unfortunately I have not the intellect to design this . As a group setup a new site, with free images. Yes free images, might as well be free if SS and the other sites go with this new model. Hard to beat free. Not even the evil SS can beat free. You have a site that is just like every other site with the difference all images/videos are free. To get a free image you have to listen to a 30-60 second add . Just like the adds on youtube. The difference you can't rush are turn off the add. At the end of the advertisement you get a unique number/code for one free picture or video that day. You can get as many pictures per day as you listen to different adds and get different codes.The codes are only good per image per 24 hours. The the payout which I guess is small , you get an advertising fee for showing the add. No this most likely won't get you more money than the slims at SS but free is hard to beat. No sure what those adds pay but I am guessing 20 to 40 cents each. You could also charge a yearly fee like Costco dose, maybe 29 bucks a year to make a little more revenue.

Absolutely bad idea

mj007 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 28, 2020, 14:04 »

May be a bad idea, but an idea. What is your idea?

georgep7 · « **Reply #22 on:** May 28, 2020, 14:36 »

Quote from: mj007 on May 28, 2020, 14:04

May be a bad idea, but an idea. What is your idea?

For individuals downloading images here and there sounds a nice idea for small money earning. But bigger clients won't come i guess. Meaning no good sales or some kind of ELs. So why not staying in SS for pocket money?

But this is a cool idea for personal sites maybe? Although ads have gone mad finding no solutions to produce money nowadays. You can find youtube compulsury auto-play services providing "play time" and views as running "ads" even on p*rn sites.

Advertisement passes it's own crisis i think

Desintegrator · « **Reply #23 on:** May 28, 2020, 14:41 »

Yes... and how do you get those ocassional sales that yield 90-250 USD a piece?

SpaceStockFootage · « **Reply #24 on:** May 28, 2020, 14:53 »

Can't knock you for coming up with an idea, but there are a lot of flaws in it. First, it would be more like 0.4 cents than 40 cents per view. I'd need 625 views per month, per item, to make the same as I do now (or a total of 135,000 ad views)*... and I'm not sure how feasible that would be. Second, an ad agency, online news company or video production company etc etc... isn't going to want to sit and watch ads and enter codes before they can create the content they're on a deadline to make. You need 1000 images for a big collage image type thing then they need to watch 16 hours of ads. Individuals and small enterprises might use it, but they're probably the type who are more likely to use the free image sites where they don't have to watch any ads. Yes, the quality isn't as good, but if they want an upgrade from the free sites then they're more likely to go with the subscription sites. And if you want to earn 0.4 cents per download then you're also better to go with one of the subscription sites... without having to build a website. But if not... the cost of creating the site, maintaining it and marketing it so you get to the point that you can be getting 625 ad views per item per month (or more) and I can't see it working.

The poll in another thread had 500,000 items from 68 contributors. If we make a site for, say, 1000 contributors (with 625 ad views per item per month), you're looking at getting 55 billion ad views per year. If we can get that many ad views then we're in the wrong line of work!

mj007 · « **Reply #25 on:** May 28, 2020, 14:56 »

You must have some great items. I have not got the 90-250 dollar sell from SS in maybe five years. I get maybe one 28.00 sale ever three or four months. The 28 buck sell I guess will go to 4.80

Desintegrator · « **Reply #26 on:** May 28, 2020, 15:00 »

Quote from: mj007 on May 28, 2020, 14:56

You must have some great items. I have not got the 90-250 dollar sell from SS in maybe five years. I get maybe one 28.00 sale ever three or four months. The 28 buck sell I guess will go to 4.80

for me the 90-200 dollar sales are actually a bit more frequent than the 18-29 dollar ELs. Since there is this undefined category of "single and other" sales i havn't seen much ELs

georgep7 · « **Reply #27 on:** May 28, 2020, 15:07 »

mj007's base idea is good i think because involves other ways of getting a fee for the image.

I cannot contribute any ideas on it but i like it as alternative and why not innovative way of thinking in photography.

I also cannot see the thread / link mentioned above "off limits" for me too.

Roger Mitsom · « **Reply #28 on:** June 10, 2020, 19:54 »

Bottom line is that there are just too many pictures of the same thing anymore. For all the people leaving SSTK they will still have plenty. Especially for clients that just aren't very discerning. They just want a relevant image for their slideshow and move on.

Hildegarde · « **Reply #29 on:** June 10, 2020, 20:05 »

I would hope it would not be an agency that sells out to another one. Too many businesses start and then get swallowed.

csm · « **Reply #30 on:** June 11, 2020, 05:33 »

Quote from: mj007 on May 28, 2020, 13:50

Here is a way to beat SS. Unfortunately I have not the intellect to design this . As a group setup a new site, with free images. Yes free images, might as well be free if SS and the other sites go with this new model. Hard to beat free. Not even the evil SS can beat free. You have a site that is just like every other site with the difference all images/videos are free. To get a free image you have to listen to a 30-60 second add . Just like the adds on youtube. The difference you can't rush are turn off the add. At the end of the advertisement you get a unique number/code for one free picture or video that day. You can get as many pictures per day as you listen to different adds and get different codes.The codes are only good per image per 24 hours. The the payout which I guess is small , you get an advertising fee for showing the add. No this most likely won't get you more money than the slims at SS but free is hard to beat. No sure what those adds pay but I am guessing 20 to 40 cents each. You could also charge a yearly fee like Costco dose, maybe 29 bucks a year to make a little more revenue.

Its already been done.
And I don't think its a viable option.You just need so many views to make any sales.

https://www.clickasnap.com

Roger Mitsom · « **Reply #31 on:** June 11, 2020, 15:13 »

Quote from: mj007 on May 28, 2020, 13:50

Here is a way to beat SS. Unfortunately I have not the intellect to design this . As a group setup a new site, with free images. Yes free images, might as well be free if SS and the other sites go with this new model. Hard to beat free. Not even the evil SS can beat free. You have a site that is just like every other site with the difference all images/videos are free. To get a free image you have to listen to a 30-60 second add . Just like the adds on youtube. The difference you can't rush are turn off the add. At the end of the advertisement you get a unique number/code for one free picture or video that day. You can get as many pictures per day as you listen to different adds and get different codes.The codes are only good per image per 24 hours. The the payout which I guess is small , you get an advertising fee for showing the add. No this most likely won't get you more money than the slims at SS but free is hard to beat. No sure what those adds pay but I am guessing 20 to 40 cents each. You could also charge a yearly fee like Costco dose, maybe 29 bucks a year to make a little more revenue.

I see. So get back at SS low rates by giving your images away for free. Brilliant. Reminds me of a guy who once cut off his nose to spite his face.

Tenebroso · « **Reply #32 on:** June 11, 2020, 15:37 »

OK. I open a microstock sales space. It takes work, infrastructure, solving problems, time and money directly and indirectly or investment.

Questions, how much are you willing to pay for collaboration in the development of the project, per year? How many exclusive new files are you going to contribute to the project? What is the adequate number of files in the total set that may be necessary to achieve quality, variety, originality, in order for a potential client to approach the new project?

aitor · « **Reply #33 on:** June 12, 2020, 02:06 »

I would like to collaborate with the hosting/server side.

leremy · « **Reply #34 on:** June 12, 2020, 02:09 »

How much funding did Symbiostock got before the project collapsed? How did it failed? Can anybody brief us the history of Symbiostock?

Snow · « **Reply #35 on:** June 12, 2020, 02:34 »

Sorry for the double post but it seems more fitting here:

I’m hoping someone will come along and create a platform for us.
If it doesn’t work out then no harm done right? We already have tools such as symbiostock to get us started or we can start from scratch. I am 100% certain we have enough talented and experienced people amongst us who are capable of that.

We don’t actually have to take on the big guns, we just have to set it all up, upload a few dozen (or more) of our best images and see where that takes us.
We can guide buyers on social media, forums like this one, create websites with our microstock profile that points to wherever we want, our own stock agency in this case. We can put a link to this new agency wherever we want and you can bet those same websites that wrote about SS recent change will also pick up on this and write about it, so again extra exposure.

If sales are low but we get 50% or more from each fair priced sale then it’s still a win situation for us. Sure beats a dozen 0,10 sales!
I think this would certainly be possible without having to start a war against other agencies, so they have no reason to take war on us. I think Stocksy is no threat to others and since we are talking microstock here so far less expensive we could actually perform a lot better then them. Again we don’t have to start our own agency with a goal to compete with others or prove something. That’s not a good mind set and a lost cause anyway. We just have to start it as we see no other way forward really.

Imagine if all those who already disabled or will disable their porfolios joined this new agency. We’re not talking about a few hundred here. Also others will start getting curious and try it out, that is in our nature. Many are jumping to DT again which they know is a low seller, just to try it out again so why not our own agency?
I think there are enough people amongst us who are willing to donate their time or even money to set this whole thing up.

But then maybe im just daydreaming and we will stick to protest (in any form) but eventually give in or give up!

The choice is ours!

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #36 on:** June 12, 2020, 09:07 »

Quote from: Snow on June 12, 2020, 02:34

I’m hoping someone will come along and create a platform for us.

Why would they? Charity?

For the question that you and others have asked, why doesn't someone start a new site? If I could have, I would have, years ago. Every year I ask about software, and there isn't anything? K-Tools was the closest and the creator of that abandoned it. Old versions, new, doesn't matter, it's dead.

I mean true self hosted. I keep asking and writing and now here we are again, and the answer is the same. That software doesn't exist. Last site that I read about, having his own software developed (not likely to come to market) cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. The software to operate a site with payments, downloads for electronic files, just isn't out there.

I don't know if that's demand or expense or what. I mean people host document files, pay for download. Photos, vectors, imaging, can't be that more difficult? Video is another thing.

So someone tell me, where's the software?

aitor · « **Reply #37 on:** June 12, 2020, 09:19 »

With WordPress and some modules you can do it. Isn't plug and play.

steheap · « **Reply #38 on:** June 12, 2020, 09:30 »

Quote

How much funding did Symbiostock got before the project collapsed? How did it failed? Can anybody brief us the history of Symbiostock?

I know this is a double post, but there is another thread running about this proposed agency. Here is my "history" of symbiostock: https://backyardsilver.com/do-self-hosted-stock-photo-sites-ever-work/

Steve

Tenebroso · « **Reply #39 on:** June 12, 2020, 12:33 »

Quote from: aitor on June 12, 2020, 02:06

I would like to collaborate with the hosting/server side.

I have the technical and human team. In addition, numerous months discussing how to elaborate it, create it, strengthens it. Plus the later plans. Initial plan, short term, medium term and long term.

We have analyzed thousands of possible problems and their possible solutions. We know that we will encounter unforeseen problems.

My team is the best in the course of experience in other wars for years. And I know that I will meet new people to cross the street in this new adventure.

I appreciate your offer, I don't need that help. I do need blood, the answer to my questions. Your attitude is important. I highly value your attitude, your blood worth of the warrior. Thank you.

whtvr · « **Reply #40 on:** June 12, 2020, 12:50 »

Quote

I am 100% certain we have enough talented and experienced people amongst us who are capable of that.

No doubt. But i would start by asking their hourly rate and an estimation of total needed time for an almost working platform. If people were serious and believed in theirselfes and work they would buy what was it? Crestock? 15K divided just to 3000 dissapointed Shutter contributors in this f/b forum mentioned is what? $5 each? The monthly Youtube subscription for a channel to push us gear.

marthamarks · « **Reply #41 on:** June 12, 2020, 13:16 »

Quote from: leremy on June 12, 2020, 02:09

How much funding did Symbiostock got before the project collapsed? How did it failed? Can anybody brief us the history of Symbiostock?

Some of us lived through that experience and put a whole lot of energy and time and thought and money into building our own Symbiostock sites. Very few of them have survived to this day, and of those I know of none that have made a profit from it.

It's exhausting even to think of that now, so I doubt anybody is going to want to come back to brief you on it.

Life is too short.

microvideo · « **Reply #42 on:** June 12, 2020, 14:19 »

The key is to do it as a group. Join forces with the stockcoalition.org for example and get all the people that is deleting their portfolios from SS and make a stock site where all contributors get shares. Like a Cooperative so all the revenue goes to contributors.

eliaspraciano · « **Reply #43 on:** June 12, 2020, 14:25 »

Quote from: microvideo on June 12, 2020, 14:19

The key is to do it as a group. Join forces with the stockcoalition.org for example and get all the people that is deleting their portfolios from SS and make a stock site where all contributors get shares. Like a Cooperative so all the revenue goes to contributors.

Sent from my motorola one using Tapatalk

mij · « **Reply #44 on:** June 12, 2020, 15:18 »

The content I've been reading on this thread is encouraging and I believe is the only way things will change. What so many are thinking and talking about all day long (how terrible the changes in SS payment structure are, refusing to contribute further, shutting down their accounts, etc. ) will do nothing more than help these negative policies to grow and manifest. Alternative marketing ideas will eventually create the change we as contributors are looking for. Thank you and keep those ideas coming.

Tenebroso · « **Reply #45 on:** June 12, 2020, 15:45 »

Today, we already know many things.

True. In these times we know many things. We know that three different details have placed freepik as an aspiring agency leader. We know that Shutterstock is the Agency that sells the most. Also, we know that Adobestock closes the circle between software professionals, clients and collaborators.

We know that we live historical moments on the planet.
We also know that microstock is evolving, like other sectors such as music, cinema, ..........

In the course of a relatively short period, cooperatives, groups, consortiums, associations, of artists will appear with the aim of improving the business.

We will also know that a large number of these groups will fail. The relationship of friendship or of the couple is very difficult, here, that there is money through, the difficulties multiply.

These working groups will have imitations and surrogates, new groups will emerge based on the experiences of existing groups.

Over time, the strongest groups will lead 95% of existing groups. Some Agency will give us other misfortunes. Some groups will give us joy other upsets.

Yes, we are in a period of evolution towards new sales systems, true.

Some artists will be in all groups, some in just one and Agency. We already know many things today.

Noedelhap · « **Reply #46 on:** June 12, 2020, 16:06 »

I once created my own personal stock site. I paid $70 for a good template site with database, search functionality, cart and check out, including a backend for editing, customized it, got it working, but in the end no visitors and no sales whatsoever. Granted I didn't really advertise, but I did lots of social media updates and put links to my vector store everywhere I could.

After a few years I pulled the plug because it just wasn't worth the hassle.

Tenebroso · « **Reply #47 on:** June 12, 2020, 16:24 »

How many files are necessary?

Yes, obviously, there are companies with 1 million images and they do not leave the agencies. One of my questions from the first post in this thread is related to this problem. A number of exclusive new images to motivate to approach a possible client. Since many do not buy, but they are not even going to waste time bothering to change. If the fee is small, it is known that people pay for something they signed 23 years ago, so as not to waste time, we let them bill us every year. Normally we decide to cancel the payment, but year after year, it appears in the bank statement. we are comfortable. As for customers, the same, comfort, why are they going to bother to change, if they have been in Shutterstock for years and everyone is in SS? Therefore, a large number of files are needed for the client to have needs covered. in addition to other things that I am not going to mention at the moment. There is a lot of work, and it must be in groups. But the problem arises, we like to be safe and we like others to try it before. In addition, we will collaborate in getting Google out of the garage, we will collaborate in placing it as the king of search engines, the king of the world and then ....... take time to sink it and criticize it. Any business is very complicated, this one is very, very complicated.

morfon · « **Reply #48 on:** June 21, 2020, 05:24 »

Quote from: mj007 on May 28, 2020, 13:50

The difference you can't rush are turn off the add.

If by "add" you mean ads, someone already did it. Called youtube. Guess what: adblockers help you skip video ads, or any kind of ads. Plus a lot of people, myself included, would rather fork out a few cents than sit through bloody ads. I never had a single app on my phone that runs on ads. It's either completely free or a one-time payment. Now imagine agency editors who purchase images in bulk, watching ads instead of doing their thing. You seriously think it's a sustainable business model?
A bad idea is not better than no idea at all.

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #49 on:** December 17, 2020, 12:36 »

Just bumping this due to some news. Photodeck just announced new functionality that provides individuals with the ability to set up an instant agency or photographer collective. I use Photodeck for my photo business website and am pretty happy with them. For anyone who wants to start an agency or collective this may be a good alternative to building from scratch.

https://www.photodeck.com/blog/2020/12/creating-photo-agency/

marthamarks · « **Reply #50 on:** December 17, 2020, 13:15 »

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on December 17, 2020, 12:36

Just bumping this due to some news. Photodeck just announced new functionality that provides individuals with the ability to set up an instant agency or photographer collective. I use Photodeck for my photo business website and am pretty happy with them. For anyone who wants to start an agency or collective this may be a good alternative to building from scratch.

https://www.photodeck.com/blog/2020/12/creating-photo-agency/

Thanks, Paulie W., for pointing that out.

I had an account and built a site at Photodeck long, long ago. A very early user. The guy running it was nice and very helpful as I got my feet wet in self-marketing.

So I can't remember why I didn't stay with it. Maybe because I went with iStock, Shitterstock, etc?? Who knows now or cares?

But I may go back and take another look, thanks to your recommendation. It might be an idea whose time has come (again) for me.

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #51 on:** December 18, 2020, 00:17 »

Quote from: marthamarks on December 17, 2020, 13:15

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on December 17, 2020, 12:36
Just bumping this due to some news. Photodeck just announced new functionality that provides individuals with the ability to set up an instant agency or photographer collective. I use Photodeck for my photo business website and am pretty happy with them. For anyone who wants to start an agency or collective this may be a good alternative to building from scratch.

https://www.photodeck.com/blog/2020/12/creating-photo-agency/

Thanks, Paulie W., for pointing that out.

I had an account and built a site at Photodeck long, long ago. A very early user. The guy running it was nice and very helpful as I got my feet wet in self-marketing.

So I can't remember why I didn't stay with it. Maybe because I went with iStock, Shitterstock, etc?? Who knows now or cares?

But I may go back and take another look, thanks to your recommendation. It might be an idea whose time has come (again) for me.

Photodeck has come a long way. I think I signed up with a basic account in 2010 and switched to a more advanced account around 2014. I've also communicated with the founder and their support team and they've been helpful overall.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #52 on:** December 18, 2020, 09:42 »

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on December 17, 2020, 12:36

Just bumping this due to some news. Photodeck just announced new functionality that provides individuals with the ability to set up an instant agency or photographer collective. I use Photodeck for my photo business website and am pretty happy with them. For anyone who wants to start an agency or collective this may be a good alternative to building from scratch.

https://www.photodeck.com/blog/2020/12/creating-photo-agency/

This will be interesting. I think many have been asking for something like this, for a long time. Off to read.

Oh I get it. Nice

"host multi-photographer accounts on PhotoDeck, with access rights management."

Five members team plan $100 a month, but it tracks individuals earnings, which is very important to any team or group agency, that the people who make the sales, get the credit for the sales.

Start your own agency, and have 5 people join you.

farbled · « **Reply #53 on:** December 18, 2020, 12:00 »

I wish ktools still supported their software. I found it easy and intuitive and you could set up multiple contributor accounts easily.

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #54 on:** December 18, 2020, 14:03 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on December 18, 2020, 09:42

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on December 17, 2020, 12:36
Just bumping this due to some news. Photodeck just announced new functionality that provides individuals with the ability to set up an instant agency or photographer collective. I use Photodeck for my photo business website and am pretty happy with them. For anyone who wants to start an agency or collective this may be a good alternative to building from scratch.

https://www.photodeck.com/blog/2020/12/creating-photo-agency/

This will be interesting. I think many have been asking for something like this, for a long time. Off to read.

Oh I get it. Nice

"host multi-photographer accounts on PhotoDeck, with access rights management."

Five members team plan $100 a month, but it tracks individuals earnings, which is very important to any team or group agency, that the people who make the sales, get the credit for the sales.

Start your own agency, and have 5 people join you.

I skimmed over the details. So looks like the plan includes up to five people but you can contact them to request more users. Beyond the technology is all the business stuff. Content strategy, marketing, how to handle customer service, how to split the costs, attract buyers, design configuration, and more admin related stuff.

Horizon · « **Reply #55 on:** December 18, 2020, 14:17 »

Oh boy this idea have been on the carpet many many times. I think the first time was when Istock started to mess us around and thats about 10 years back if I remember correctly.
The idea is great if one whants to spend 90% administration this and that and 10% photography!....just a minor detail who is going to pay for it all? advertising etc and all that goes with it?

PaulieWalnuts · « **Reply #56 on:** December 18, 2020, 14:34 »

Quote from: Horizon on December 18, 2020, 14:17

Oh boy this idea have been on the carpet many many times. I think the first time was when Istock started to mess us around and thats about 10 years back if I remember correctly.
The idea is great if one whants to spend 90% administration this and that and 10% photography!....just a minor detail who is going to pay for it all? advertising etc and all that goes with it?

Yep and that's the other half of the equation. You need to have a solid business plan otherwise the technology is useless.

marthamarks · « **Reply #57 on:** December 18, 2020, 17:58 »

Quote from: PaulieWalnuts on December 18, 2020, 14:34

Quote from: Horizon on December 18, 2020, 14:17
Oh boy this idea have been on the carpet many many times. I think the first time was when Istock started to mess us around and thats about 10 years back if I remember correctly.
The idea is great if one whants to spend 90% administration this and that and 10% photography!....just a minor detail who is going to pay for it all? advertising etc and all that goes with it?

Yep and that's the other half of the equation. You need to have a solid business plan otherwise the technology is useless.

Exactly right.

And that's where we come full circle back to Symbiostock, isn't it? Great ideas for "let's all band together and show the *insult removed* we don't need them" but almost no ideas for marketing.

EDITED TO ADD: Fun how this sweet, 74-year-old widow can still write stuff salty enough to wind up with an *insult removed* tag here on MSG. Must mean I'm not completely washed up yet.

WendyT · « **Reply #58 on:** December 19, 2020, 17:54 »

Quote

And that's where we come full circle back to Symbiostock, isn't it? Great ideas for "let's all band together and show the *insult removed* we don't need them" but almost no ideas for marketing.

and at the end of the day selling is all about marketing!

good to see you still being salty Martha!

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #59 on:** December 20, 2020, 11:26 »

Quote from: Horizon on December 18, 2020, 14:17

Oh boy this idea have been on the carpet many many times. I think the first time was when Istock started to mess us around and thats about 10 years back if I remember correctly.
The idea is great if one whants to spend 90% administration this and that and 10% photography!....just a minor detail who is going to pay for it all? advertising etc and all that goes with it?

Does that administrator get paid more for all the extra work?

Otherwise, you make a very good point.

Quote from: farbled on December 18, 2020, 12:00

I wish ktools still supported their software. I found it easy and intuitive and you could set up multiple contributor accounts easily.

Apparently as the php versions changed, the second Ktools, which was not an upgrade but all new, also started to fail. If I understand right the entire package would need to be re-written to match modern standards.

"I have made the decision to close Ktools.net. I have been struggling with keeping it running in my very limited time but unfortunately I can't do it any longer.

I started Ktools in 2003 when I was single and had no kids. Things took off quick and I started working on Ktools full time. Soon after I brought on Jeff to help me. We worked to develop hundreds of releases of PhotoStore over the years and answered in excess of 110,000 support tickets. In 2013 Jeff was diagnosed with cancer. He left Ktools shortly after to spend time with his family. During this time I tried to bring on different people to help me but nothing worked out. Last month Jeff passed away from his cancer. This left me to reflect on things. Since the start of Ktools 14 years ago I got married and had 2 kids. My kids are 2 1/2 years and 7 months. Things rapidly changed on the internet during this time and my inability to keep up hurt the business over time. Because of this I took on a full time job in 2015. Since then my time has been extremely limited. I have tried to keep up with things the best I could but with a full time job and young kids at home I feel like it was a losing battle. Gone are the days when I could work 12-14 hours on this.

I will be gradually shutting down the site with a goal to have everything completely closed within the next couple months.

I will continue to assist anyone with remaining support time. Support responses may be slow but I will get to them. I will no longer be selling support packages or upgrade packages."

I installed some free photostore on one of my sites, but never got to the point of figuring out how after I uploaded photos, to get them to display. And then people have told me, getting the store to accept payments, gets complicated as well.

Lisafx had a working site, then it was re-written, she paid for that. Last I looked, it wasn't functional at all. That was with someone professional who made changes to keep it working. Maybe the code could be purchased from KTools Photo Store as a starter, then developed. Cost vs return how much demand?

farbled · « **Reply #60 on:** December 20, 2020, 11:52 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on December 20, 2020, 11:26

Lisafx had a working site, then it was re-written, she paid for that. Last I looked, it wasn't functional at all. That was with someone professional who made changes to keep it working. Maybe the code could be purchased from KTools Photo Store as a starter, then developed. Cost vs return how much demand?

I doubt it would be worth the effort honestly. For me it was ease of use and that it allowed a lot of variables that the Wordpress plugins don't seem to, right off the shelf (video preview, multi contribs, separated payment modules, etc). I also found that I didn't need extensive tech skills to run it compared to some of the more involved WP plugins, and I have tried most of them.

For the money and amount of work, it would be easier to buy an existing agency I bet, and rebrand, toss all the collections and start fresh with exclusive stuff.

At the end of the day, its all just software and (relatively) easily dealt with, compared to establishing sales and marketing your brand. I still maintain there is no point competing in the same sphere as the MS agencies (ie via random google search), and is better to branch out to areas they don't seem to work in. That is the tough bit in my opinion.

I still have my site. I use the WP Photo Seller plugin currently, does the job but is very basic.

Activesocial · « **Reply #61 on:** December 20, 2020, 12:27 »

Hello guys, I registered to this forum today but I can't create new posts. Why?
Thanks

cathyslife · « **Reply #62 on:** December 20, 2020, 14:08 »

Quote from: Activesocial on December 20, 2020, 12:27

Hello guys, I registered to this forum today but I can't create new posts. Why?
Thanks

Until you make 5 posts (I think that's the number) your posts need approval. I just approved this one, there are a couple of other members who can approve. Leaf is trying to cut down on spam, so noobs need approval at first.

cathyslife · « **Reply #63 on:** December 20, 2020, 14:13 »

Quote

In 2013 Jeff was diagnosed with cancer. He left Ktools shortly after to spend time with his family. During this time I tried to bring on different people to help me but nothing worked out. Last month Jeff passed away from his cancer.

Oh, very sad.

I think the Warmpicture site was a KTools site. And I know my personal site was a Ktools too, for a while. And then it broke. Then came symbio. After that broke a couple of times, I moved to wordpress, but gave up on selling from my own site.

Tenebroso · « **Reply #64 on:** December 20, 2020, 15:51 »

@ marthamarks, a virtual hug.

The artists will have to try to get together again. It is not about competing with the agencies. Expand the possibilities, alternatives.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #65 on:** December 21, 2020, 06:43 »

Quote from: cathyslife on December 20, 2020, 14:13

Quote
In 2013 Jeff was diagnosed with cancer. He left Ktools shortly after to spend time with his family. During this time I tried to bring on different people to help me but nothing worked out. Last month Jeff passed away from his cancer.

Oh, very sad.

I think the Warmpicture site was a KTools site. And I know my personal site was a Ktools too, for a while. And then it broke. Then came symbio. After that broke a couple of times, I moved to wordpress, but gave up on selling from my own site.

Well you've done much better at getting something working, than I ever did. Even MY Symbio site crashed and Leo looked at it and couldn't see why. I have had no luck with the WP plugins. That's why KTools was the most hopeful for me until that also became outdated.

Quote from: farbled on December 20, 2020, 11:52

Quote from: Uncle Pete on December 20, 2020, 11:26
Lisafx had a working site, then it was re-written, she paid for that. Last I looked, it wasn't functional at all. That was with someone professional who made changes to keep it working. Maybe the code could be purchased from KTools Photo Store as a starter, then developed. Cost vs return how much demand?

I doubt it would be worth the effort honestly. For me it was ease of use and that it allowed a lot of variables that the Wordpress plugins don't seem to, right off the shelf (video preview, multi contribs, separated payment modules, etc). I also found that I didn't need extensive tech skills to run it compared to some of the more involved WP plugins, and I have tried most of them.

For the money and amount of work, it would be easier to buy an existing agency I bet, and rebrand, toss all the collections and start fresh with exclusive stuff.

At the end of the day, its all just software and (relatively) easily dealt with, compared to establishing sales and marketing your brand. I still maintain there is no point competing in the same sphere as the MS agencies (ie via random google search), and is better to branch out to areas they don't seem to work in. That is the tough bit in my opinion.

I still have my site. I use the WP Photo Seller plugin currently, does the job but is very basic.

Be patient, I bought lottery tickets again this week...

I wouldn't mind having a full time job again, and running a small stock agency, would be right up my kind of interest. (remember I'm the one who says, don't feed the little agencies that only compete on price and have all the same images as the big ones.)

I'm also not sure that many people would be interested in any exclusive agency. Sure Stocksy has a style and direction, what would "newstock" (the rebranded agency) do for their special niche. Oh I know... Plop and Shoot, realistic food photos.

But seriously, I suppose food porn would be something in demand? Myself I'd lean towards Motorsports? (obviously not a high demand or big seller)

I hope someone here takes up the package offer and gets together with five others to start their own small market site. That would be interesting to see how it succeeds. I'd wish them the best.

farbled · « **Reply #66 on:** December 21, 2020, 12:17 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on December 21, 2020, 06:43

I'm also not sure that many people would be interested in any exclusive agency. Sure Stocksy has a style and direction, what would "newstock" (the rebranded agency) do for their special niche. Oh I know... Plop and Shoot, realistic food photos.

I think when the alternative to an exclusive image is potentially only a few pennies if anything, it might make sense for people still producing unique stock images.

And that's why I am sad about ktools, setting up a 5-10 person shop was dead simple to do and it wouldn't cost a hundred bucks a month to yet another company making money off our backs.

If the Stocksy folks are taking notes, maybe think about a discount brand to go along with their premium one? I bet you'd get a lot of interest.

Tenebroso · « **Reply #67 on:** December 21, 2020, 14:42 »

Once here, in this forum, I asked for the number of files needed for a platform to be potentially interesting for a potential client to come just to look at the web.

Some, very few, commented. The numbers that were said in this forum were high. Lots of files needed to just grab potential attention.

The responses in number, are something that five artists would have a hard time getting, according to the numbers offered by those who commented on this forum.

farbled · « **Reply #68 on:** December 21, 2020, 15:19 »

Quote from: Tenebroso on December 21, 2020, 14:42

Once here, in this forum, I asked for the number of files needed for a platform to be potentially interesting for a potential client to come just to look at the web.

Some, very few, commented. The numbers that were said in this forum were high. Lots of files needed to just grab potential attention.

The responses in number, are something that five artists would have a hard time getting, according to the numbers offered by those who commented on this forum.

This comes back to my point of having a solid marketing plan that relies on something besides volume. For example, I have approx 5k rare earth mineral and mining photos, almost exclusively industrial minerals and metals used in manufacturing. It is one of the larger licensable collections that I am aware of. So, for me, I'd find a half dozen shooters who have a similar complimentary collection (size, quality, variety). Industrial, architectural, "people at work", and the like. At the end, still well under 100k images making for a very small collection. But it is targeted to a specific market. See?

If all the potential "agency" has is numbers, I think its doomed from the start, since the big agencies will always have more. I doubt I'd join any group that was relying on Google or any other search engine placement for clients. When the supply is unlimited, you need a different differentiator. Rarity and quality is what I'd choose.

Tenebroso · « **Reply #69 on:** December 21, 2020, 15:50 »

Yes. Both factors are differentiators when it comes to getting potential leads. Have a unique or very special material. A differentiating material is something that you can offer someone that they may need.

Right.

The other option is the union of artists, logically, not all. Logically the agencies are not rivals or competition from that group or multiple groups that will be formed from the first successful group.

This group has many advantages, and will compete against other groups and agencies. Customers will have new options. Exclusive groups with a unique material and large groups with a high number of files capable of motivating a potential buyer to approach that platform.

farbled · « **Reply #70 on:** December 21, 2020, 16:37 »

Quote from: Tenebroso on December 21, 2020, 15:50

Yes. Both factors are differentiators when it comes to getting potential leads. Have a unique or very special material. A differentiating material is something that you can offer someone that they may need.

Right.

The other option is the union of artists, logically, not all. Logically the agencies are not rivals or competition from that group or multiple groups that will be formed from the first successful group.

This group has many advantages, and will compete against other groups and agencies. Customers will have new options. Exclusive groups with a unique material and large groups with a high number of files capable of motivating a potential buyer to approach that platform.

Having watched this industry since it took off, in my opinion, there will never be a union. And in the very slim chance there is one someday, if they compete with agencies purely on volume, they will probably not do very well. The one thing I learned from the Symbiostock project was that I will never allow a group like a union ever have a say in how I price my work or where I offer it for license.

*edit, maybe I am not understanding what you mean. The way it reads to me is you want to attract clients via volume mostly. I don't see how that is different from any of the sites on the sidepanel here.

Tenebroso · « **Reply #71 on:** December 21, 2020, 17:39 »

I don't want to bring you to anything or anywhere. I simply have the conviction that the union of artists is necessary. Saving the intermediary is something that will bring us many advantages. Therefore, I firmly believe in what I say. To the point of working to make it a reality.

I accept your perspective. I accept your comments, I accept everything. I only say what I think. What you think is not contrary to my words.

You, logically, are free to comment and act as you deem appropriate. A hug and happy holidays if you are used to celebrating them.

If you don't celebrate Christmas, may the new year not be like this 2020.

farbled · « **Reply #72 on:** December 21, 2020, 17:45 »

Quote from: Tenebroso on December 21, 2020, 17:39

I don't want to bring you to anything or anywhere. I simply have the conviction that the union of artists is necessary. Saving the intermediary is something that will bring us many advantages. Therefore, I firmly believe in what I say. To the point of working to make it a reality.

I accept your perspective. I accept your comments, I accept everything. I only say what I think. What you think is not contrary to my words.

You, logically, are free to comment and act as you deem appropriate. A hug and happy holidays if you are used to celebrating them.

If you don't celebrate Christmas, may the new year not be like this 2020.

Agree, happy holidays. I apologize if I sounded argumentative. Its not intentional.

I just do not see, where there is unlimited supply of artists and product, the chance for a union to ever really have a positive impact.

Tenebroso · « **Reply #73 on:** December 21, 2020, 17:54 »

All good, greetings.

Never belong to any group. If you think you can offer your files individually, go ahead. I am always in favor of trying, not spending time crying, but fighting. Also, if you fall, get up. Anything you need for your project, and I can help you, count on me. I am very busy, but I can help you. Contact me in February and I will give you the free software and space to start it. If you're interested.

farbled · « **Reply #74 on:** December 21, 2020, 18:50 »

Quote from: Tenebroso on December 21, 2020, 17:54

All good, greetings.

Never belong to any group. If you think you can offer your files individually, go ahead. I am always in favor of trying, not spending time crying, but fighting. Also, if you fall, get up. Anything you need for your project, and I can help you, count on me. I am very busy, but I can help you. Contact me in February and I will give you the free software and space to start it. If you're interested.

I appreciate the offer but I think someone just starting out with fresh content and new ideas might be a better investment for you. I do not think I have the drive or ambition to start fresh again except on my own small scale. And as many here can tell you, I am pretty flaky.

I made my pile on micro already, and will scrape the last pennies out of my collection before I completely toss in the towel. Best of luck!

trabuco · « **Reply #75 on:** December 22, 2020, 02:30 »

There is one company that have a great chance to overcome the two big ones now. A smart movement would be to claim a better deal with this company, because I think they are really not interested in to get more pennies from contributors. They actually can rise the royalties if they want.

kall3bu · « **Reply #76 on:** December 22, 2020, 02:45 »

Are you talking about Pond5?

trabuco · « **Reply #77 on:** December 22, 2020, 05:09 »

No, Adobe The Giant.

Quote

Products
Main article: List of Adobe software
Graphic design software
Adobe Photoshop, Adobe Pagemaker, Adobe Lightroom, Adobe InDesign, Adobe InCopy, Adobe ImageReady, Adobe Illustrator, Adobe Freehand, Adobe FrameMaker, Adobe Fireworks, Adobe Acrobat, Adobe XD
Web design programs
Adobe Muse, Adobe GoLive, Adobe Flash Builder, Adobe Flash, Adobe Edge, Adobe Dreamweaver, Adobe Contribute
Video editing, animation, and visual effects
Adobe Ultra, Adobe Spark Video, Adobe Premiere Pro, Adobe Premiere Elements, Adobe Prelude, Adobe Encore, Adobe Director, Adobe Animate, Adobe After Effects, Adobe Character Animator
Audio editing software
Adobe Soundbooth, Adobe Audition
eLearning software
Adobe Captivate Prime (LMS platform), Adobe Captivate, Adobe Presenter Video Express and Adobe Connect (also a Web conferencing platform)
Digital Marketing Management Software
Adobe Marketing Cloud, Adobe Experience Manager (AEM 6.2), XML Documentation add-on (for AEM), Mixamo
Server software
Adobe ColdFusion, Adobe Content Server and Adobe LiveCycle Enterprise Suite, Adobe BlazeDS
Formats
Portable Document Format (PDF), PDF's predecessor PostScript, ActionScript, Shockwave Flash (SWF), Flash Video (FLV), and Filmstrip (.flm)[62]
Web-hosted services
Adobe Color, Photoshop Express, Acrobat.com, and Adobe Spark[63]
3D and AR
Adobe Aero, Dimension, Mixamo, Substance by Adobe
Adobe Renderer
Adobe Media Encoder

Adobe Stock

A microstock agency that presently provides over 57 million high-resolution, royalty-free images and videos available to license (via subscription or credit purchase methods). In 2015, Adobe acquired Fotolia, a stock content marketplace founded in 2005 by Thibaud Elziere, Oleg Tscheltzoff, and Patrick Chassany which operated in 23 countries.[64] It is run as a stand-alone website.

Adobe Experience Platform

In March 2019, Adobe released its Adobe Experience Platform, which consists family of content, development, and customer relationship management products, with what it calls the "next generation" of its Sensei artificial intelligence and machine learning framework.[65]

Reception

Reception
From 1995 to 2013, Fortune ranked Adobe as "an outstanding place to work". Adobe was rated the 5th best U.S. company to work for in 2003, 6th in 2004, 31st in 2007, 40th in 2008, 11th in 2009, 42nd in 2010, 65th in 2011, 41st in 2012, and 83rd in 2013.[66] In October 2008, Adobe Systems Canada Inc. was named one of "Canada's Top 100 Employers" by Mediacorp Canada Inc. and was featured in Maclean's newsmagazine.[67]

Adobe has a five-star privacy rating from the Electronic Frontier Foundation.[68]

The Company is already there. Stock is not a main part of it, is a part of its project to rule all the business.

trabuco · « **Reply #78 on:** December 22, 2020, 05:43 »

I mean:

Main goal of SS and IS: earn money with stock. Cut royalties is a logical move.
Main goal of AS: earn money with software. Cut royalties is not a logical move, because they want to become a monopoly in other area. The logical move is to get good creators of content to support their software area. So their customers don't have to go anywhere else.

How do I get these creators? Stealing them to s.h.it.ty companies. The best move is to get all of them if I can, which is easy, because they treat the creators like sh.it.

Horizon · « **Reply #79 on:** December 22, 2020, 06:14 »

Quote from: farbled on December 20, 2020, 11:52

Quote from: Uncle Pete on December 20, 2020, 11:26
Lisafx had a working site, then it was re-written, she paid for that. Last I looked, it wasn't functional at all. That was with someone professional who made changes to keep it working. Maybe the code could be purchased from KTools Photo Store as a starter, then developed. Cost vs return how much demand?

I doubt it would be worth the effort honestly. For me it was ease of use and that it allowed a lot of variables that the Wordpress plugins don't seem to, right off the shelf (video preview, multi contribs, separated payment modules, etc). I also found that I didn't need extensive tech skills to run it compared to some of the more involved WP plugins, and I have tried most of them.

For the money and amount of work, it would be easier to buy an existing agency I bet, and rebrand, toss all the collections and start fresh with exclusive stuff.

At the end of the day, its all just software and (relatively) easily dealt with, compared to establishing sales and marketing your brand. I still maintain there is no point competing in the same sphere as the MS agencies (ie via random google search), and is better to branch out to areas they don't seem to work in. That is the tough bit in my opinion.

I still have my site. I use the WP Photo Seller plugin currently, does the job but is very basic.

In the days of Lisafx! there was a whole string of photographers who had working sites. Some guy founded an agency called " warmstock " and he picked and invited about 50 of the very best and most prolific stock shooters at the time. This was of course a great idea and still it didnt work!! about a year later the agency folded and gone!....he who founded the agency said that it was simply too much work!

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #80 on:** December 22, 2020, 10:24 »

Quote from: Horizon on December 22, 2020, 06:14

Quote from: farbled on December 20, 2020, 11:52
Quote from: Uncle Pete on December 20, 2020, 11:26
Lisafx had a working site, then it was re-written, she paid for that. Last I looked, it wasn't functional at all. That was with someone professional who made changes to keep it working. Maybe the code could be purchased from KTools Photo Store as a starter, then developed. Cost vs return how much demand?

I doubt it would be worth the effort honestly. For me it was ease of use and that it allowed a lot of variables that the Wordpress plugins don't seem to, right off the shelf (video preview, multi contribs, separated payment modules, etc). I also found that I didn't need extensive tech skills to run it compared to some of the more involved WP plugins, and I have tried most of them.

For the money and amount of work, it would be easier to buy an existing agency I bet, and rebrand, toss all the collections and start fresh with exclusive stuff.

At the end of the day, its all just software and (relatively) easily dealt with, compared to establishing sales and marketing your brand. I still maintain there is no point competing in the same sphere as the MS agencies (ie via random google search), and is better to branch out to areas they don't seem to work in. That is the tough bit in my opinion.

I still have my site. I use the WP Photo Seller plugin currently, does the job but is very basic.

In the days of Lisafx! there was a whole string of photographers who had working sites. Some guy founded an agency called " warmstock " and he picked and invited about 50 of the very best and most prolific stock shooters at the time. This was of course a great idea and still it didnt work!! about a year later the agency folded and gone!....he who founded the agency said that it was simply too much work!

Yes I mentioned that before but thanks for bringing it up again. Good summary, and yes a bunch of people were angry they were not picked but honestly, the plan was a good one. Get established people with a good selection and good numbers of images. (proven sales numbers) I'm still not sure what too much work actually meant, but I assumed it was all about hours and hours, managing the site. I also don't remember what his percentage was or the artists. Jo Ann is still here, she was one of the more active. (I see now 50%)

djpadavona 2012

https://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/what-if-we-had-a-cooperative-distribution-channel/

Good comments on page one from the guy starting PicturEngine which isn't in existence using the links, it was basically about his agency thread. djpadavona had written twice that only one person was helping manage and run the site. I'm sure there are more, I just picked an interesting thread.

Quote from: Tenebroso on December 21, 2020, 17:39

I don't want to bring you to anything or anywhere. I simply have the conviction that the union of artists is necessary. Saving the intermediary is something that will bring us many advantages. Therefore, I firmly believe in what I say. To the point of working to make it a reality.

I accept your perspective. I accept your comments, I accept everything. I only say what I think. What you think is not contrary to my words.

You, logically, are free to comment and act as you deem appropriate. A hug and happy holidays if you are used to celebrating them.

If you don't celebrate Christmas, may the new year not be like this 2020.

I'd suggest a co-op as a group of artists and not a "union". Unless that's what you mean and it's just words for the same concept.

Interesting reading the back and forth and good ideas. I think Farbled has a good perspective in that, a group could get together that has complimentary images for the most part and for a specialty site. That doesn't mean no other subjects, just that the main thrust of the small agency is topical. The rest could still be there, since the system is in place.

On the other side, a co-op of artists would be a broad marketplace, offering diversity.

I never heard about the how many images before someone looks. Wouldn't they have to look before they knew how many images?

Yes, since that evil Grinch Leaf took away the ability to include a small image in the sig line, I'll just have to add this in the message?

Everyone - Everywhere

Including Leaf

steheap · « **Reply #81 on:** December 22, 2020, 15:03 »

I can't recall the percentage now, but the downfall was a big change that Google made to their search results in early 2013. As a result of this, the traffic to the site from Google searches was reduced by about 50% and that made it much less attractive. I think the biggest issue that Dan had was that he had to track all the commissions, payout earnings and, in particular, manage the tax aspects of that on his own business.

So the same problem as ever - very difficult to get buyers to the site and the Google changes put the nail in the coffin. It was probably the same changes that Dreamstime sued them about I would guess.

Steve

Tenebroso · « **Reply #82 on:** December 22, 2020, 15:37 »

@ Uncle Pete ............... you can name the group whatever you want, it is not relevant.

Each phrase can be discussed for seven lives. Each one is capable, some with more time than others, of placing a series of words in a row that can convince another person. These correctly placed words can be from two totally opposite realities.

Conclusion, for potential customers consider visiting a website, that website must contribute something. The more you contribute, the more chances of motivating potential customers simply to access the page. Of many clients accessing the page, a website that offers something, and that has an offer, and that has advantages over agencies, only at that time, a client will buy.

If the customer is satisfied, they will continue at their own pace by purchasing products on this website. Perhaps, if we get many to access a website with a great offer and with advantages, we may get a second client.

If the web does not offer a great deal, in principle, no one will bother to access the web.

If it's the best website on the planet, if no one knows it exists, no one will come close. However, the first thing is to create it, the first step is to create the space for 24/7 to be a complement to the existing demand.

farbled · « **Reply #83 on:** December 22, 2020, 17:08 »

Quote from: steheap on December 22, 2020, 15:03

I can't recall the percentage now, but the downfall was a big change that Google made to their search results in early 2013. As a result of this, the traffic to the site from Google searches was reduced by about 50% and that made it much less attractive. I think the biggest issue that Dan had was that he had to track all the commissions, payout earnings and, in particular, manage the tax aspects of that on his own business.

So the same problem as ever - very difficult to get buyers to the site and the Google changes put the nail in the coffin. It was probably the same changes that Dreamstime sued them about I would guess.

Steve

Yeah, I can see how that would do it. That's why I don't think relying on google and other search engines is a viable plan. Not anymore. If Dreamstime or similar sized companies couldn't do it effectively, what chance does a smaller site have?

Someone will find a way to find new clients instead of chasing the existing ones. That's where (in my opinion) someone can still make some money.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #84 on:** December 22, 2020, 17:32 »

Quote from: Tenebroso on December 22, 2020, 15:37

@ Uncle Pete ............... you can name the group whatever you want, it is not relevant.

Thanks, it was just understanding that a Union is far different from a co-op a group site or partners. I'm glad I asked. Now I understand you were just saying, people need to get together and work together, not that they should form a Trade Union. Got It!

Quote from: steheap on December 22, 2020, 15:03

I can't recall the percentage now, but the downfall was a big change that Google made to their search results in early 2013. As a result of this, the traffic to the site from Google searches was reduced by about 50% and that made it much less attractive. I think the biggest issue that Dan had was that he had to track all the commissions, payout earnings and, in particular, manage the tax aspects of that on his own business.

So the same problem as ever - very difficult to get buyers to the site and the Google changes put the nail in the coffin. It was probably the same changes that Dreamstime sued them about I would guess.

Steve

Yeah that and what Farbled said that DT took a big hit in traffic also. Another "the rich get richer and get more traffic" while the small are swept off into the darkness.

Interesting.

Tenebroso · « **Reply #85 on:** December 22, 2020, 17:36 »

Google. Very interesting.

For years, Google has been my enemy. For my interest, and just for my interest, Google is my new best friend. We all know Google, therefore, since we know it and a lot, we will use it.

If I can make Google fall in love, I will fight to keep our love. Every day I will whisper my love in her ear. It doesn't bother me if you call me a prostitute in front of Google, I love it.

Translated, part of my team has been with Google for months, preparing a matrix website, where we will use the Google search engine, or part of what they give access to open source, so that the client can find images. A very interesting website, with a great service to anyone looking for an image. It is very advanced.

Reality always surpasses fiction, Romeo and Juliet are a joke with Google and me.

Google is fundamental in the Group. From having him by our side to not having him, it is like night to day. I am not worried about the rest of the search engine. Even the ones that are open source and I have participated. I'm only interested in Google.

Tenebroso · « **Reply #86 on:** December 22, 2020, 19:19 »

Yes, it is time to create a platform to sell. The right moment. And we will not be the only one.

The parent website (Image Search) will filter only individual files for sale. I do not believe that the user of free images enters this search engine. This service is not in the interest of these users.

The website is mine, therefore, I decide the order in which the searches appear, there will be filters, the client knows where they are and what they want when using this website.

It will place in the first searches the images that can be acquired without registration, acquire individually without any monthly or annual package, therefore images of several very specific groups that offer what the client needs will appear in the first searches, one image, one, in the following order:

- Voluntary donation of the client for the artist, with a minimum of money so that the collection company manages the sale and is an income superior to the standard subscriptions that we all know.

- Donation of 50% for the artist and the other 50% for the charitable organization of a specific list, where the client can choose to donate 100% to the artist or copyright owner if they wish.

- In third position will appear the images for sale individually that the group has determined a fixed price.

- In fourth position will appear the images of the group of artists who put the price themselves.

- In fifth position will appear the searches on the images to be acquired individually with a high price in the group of images made available for sale at a high price.

From these groups that are all formed under the same umbrella, but different platforms, it will index images from SS, AS, DP, and DT through affiliate links. I hope that whoever needs to buy an image will visit the web.

There is no percentage for me, I already told you that we were going to skip the intermediary, the agency. Don't worry about me.

You can never change the percentages. It's in the group's acceptance rules. The group cannot change the percentages, the money goes from the client to the artist through the international payment and collection management platforms.

Simply put, client and artist. And each group is different. The groups decide many details themselves. The group as a whole on a majority basis. No one will be accepted if the group does not decide to accept with a public reason. No one who does not have a public portfolio with a minimum of 2 years can request its entry.

Since it takes a lot of work to make a group, we will do five. The work is the same.

Not everyone can be in these groups. It is not allowed to be at all. There are a maximum number of artists for each group. You cannot belong to all the groups, you will have to choose, in case you are interested in any.

I'm leaving, I've already talked too much. Next year I see you. I wish you happy holidays and a spectacular entry into the year.

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