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Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Stock Discussion => Topic started by: olafvik on November 01, 2018, 18:41

Title: Twenty20
Post by: olafvik on November 01, 2018, 18:41
I do not know if there is a lot of people here in Twenty 20, but I have just received an email from them:

"Today, we're shifting away from a fixed $2 per photo sold to Subscriber Share: a way of calculating contributor revenue share based on the core idea that a buyer’s money should go to the contributors they actually use and value...."

https://help.twenty20.com/hc/en-us/articles/360011570913-What-is-Subscriber-Share-

They do some quick numbers and conclude by saying that you will win the same, but really they are going to pay 20% of the subscriptions and the subscriptions cost $29/month and are unlimited, meaning that customers can download thousands of photos per month without limits, so they will end up paying us a few cents/download

I will wait until the end of November and depending on the income per photo, I will close the account.

Creative Market released a similar system with CreativeMarket Pro, was a ruin for contributors and now they are closing it.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: MysteryShot on November 01, 2018, 19:03
Yes i received this terrible mail too, i knew its only be a matter of time they will switch to subs.
But first in the app the message "you sold a digital Download and made 0$"

...and yes its going to be cent sales, and on top of that they would like to charge you for faster review times..
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: nobody on November 01, 2018, 19:48
This is why I am not too found of 'New' companies- they usually end up crapping on top of us! Total waste of time!  >:(

Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: davidbautista on November 01, 2018, 21:32
Also the tagging method in that agency is crap.

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Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: rushay on November 01, 2018, 22:38
They are trying to use a complicated method to tell us "you will be paid less"
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: olafvik on November 02, 2018, 03:11
I started about three years ago with sales between $2 and $40 per photo, depending of size, in 2017 they dropped down to $2 and now the new system
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: rushay on November 02, 2018, 03:22
The new sales will be cents as they work it out against the number of downloads per subscription sales which is a unlimited plan.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: davidbautista on November 02, 2018, 06:25
The new sales will be cents as they work it out against the number of downloads per subscription sales which is a unlimited plan.
That's terrible. Anyone got an actual cents sale?

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Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: christiano on November 02, 2018, 07:57
I deleted my account and it took me only 2 seconds!
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: nobody on November 02, 2018, 08:28
I deleted my account and it took me only 2 seconds!

+100
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: cobalt on November 02, 2018, 13:19
I will wait to see how it plays out. Unlimited plans sound bad, but how many people download thousands of images?

But I am sure income will go down, like all the „exciting“ news.

It would be a shame though, I recommended them for people who are completly new to stock and who find adobe and shutterstock much too intimidating.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: Mir on November 02, 2018, 13:33
Their new system gave me a headache.
...and $0 royalties SMH.
I am sure I will be closing my account soon.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: davidbautista on November 02, 2018, 14:55
Their new system gave me a headache.
...and $0 royalties SMH.
I am sure I will be closing my account soon.
How is that even possible? They are copying the 1 cent payment of iStock

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Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: rushay on November 03, 2018, 01:29
The unlimited plan rides the back of our work. unlimited aka infinite does not make sense financially for us for them yes cos they selling our work and getting monthly subscription payments.

I will wait to see how it plays out. Unlimited plans sound bad, but how many people download thousands of images?

But I am sure income will go down, like all the „exciting“ news.

It would be a shame though, I recommended them for people who are completly new to stock and who find adobe and shutterstock much too intimidating.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: cobalt on November 03, 2018, 15:30
You can always stop uploading or delete your port.

I will wait and see.

They don‘t even give me a way to upload a model release, it is not a pro site anyway.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: TommyBoy on November 03, 2018, 15:52
Deleted my account there a few months ago. Twenty20 are trash.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: jacoblund on November 03, 2018, 17:00
Any agency doing unlimited downloads on subscription should be seeing the contributors leaving immediately! This is super harmful to the industry. We need to stand together as contributors and not let this be a new norm amongst stock agencies. "But Twenty20 is a small agency - so what does it matter?" It matters that it gives them advantage over competitors and thereby customers and revenue to grow bigger. Eventually competitors will be forced to catch up with similar pricing models.

We pulled our portfolio out of Creative Market Pro and so did one of my friends who also has a big portfolio. I'm glad to see it worked putting pressure on them.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: Mir on November 12, 2018, 10:53
I can't see how much I am earning, it just says I've made a sale and that exact payout will be calculated at the end of each month.
Am I missing something or is this the new model?
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: Strandholm on November 13, 2018, 15:45
I can't see how much I am earning, it just says I've made a sale and that exact payout will be calculated at the end of each month.
Am I missing something or is this the new model?
Yes. How much you get paid depends on how many other photographers you have to share the buyers monthly subscription fee with. So the system wont know how many images the buyer downloaded that month until the month is over.
it sure is an annoying system, iv'e got a few sales in limbo as well and i'm waiting until the end of the month to see if i should terminate my account or not. If the average sale price is less than 2 dollars it will be an easy choice.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: nobody on November 13, 2018, 17:28
the old photospin did the same type of payout- personally I don't like...
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: shiyali on November 14, 2018, 05:00
the old photospin did the same type of payout- personally I don't like...

We all know how that ended.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: Strandholm on December 04, 2018, 02:10
How did everyone do? I Actually got paid more than 3 dollars per image sold so the account stays for now.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: rushay on December 04, 2018, 03:36
got paid $2 less overall for 24 sales.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: derby on December 04, 2018, 06:16
Only 3 sales for me, 4$..
Less than before but more than expected
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: cobalt on December 04, 2018, 08:40
I sold 8 files and made 20 dollars, so 2.50 on average, 50 cents more per sale.

Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: AnneS on December 04, 2018, 09:43
One sale this month. Twice the normal, though. $4 instead of $2.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: tpack on December 04, 2018, 09:46
I sold 2 files in Nov, got paid $3 or 50 cents less per download than before
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: davidbautista on December 04, 2018, 09:50
What's the number of photos in your ports? I recently started and I have some but the tagging (10keywords) restricts things

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Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: olafvik on December 04, 2018, 16:05
40 sales and $1.3 per download  >:(
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: GLontras on January 03, 2019, 02:47
I sold 4 for an overall of 2 dollars in November...that is 0.50 per photo...Waiting for December payout.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: Mir on January 04, 2019, 04:50
5 sales, $4
Waiting one more month and will be deleting my account.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: rushay on January 04, 2019, 05:13
22 sales for $19 it seems this agency is becoming a lottery ticket, it would be nice to know upfront how much you get per image.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: Fairplay on January 04, 2019, 06:45
I don't get it how all the numbers are rounded. If it's some % of what the customer paid, there should be for example 19.2 (or even 19.24). Something is not quite right, they should give royalty info for every single sold image like Photospin and IS.
BTW I don't have plans to support their new system.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: MysteryShot on January 04, 2019, 08:05
22 sales 16$  >:(
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: cobalt on January 04, 2019, 13:39
11 sales, exactly 11 dollars.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: davidbautista on January 04, 2019, 13:41
It seems like they are not accepting new contributors at the moment
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: rushay on March 02, 2019, 01:18
Twenty20 needs to be upfront with us not this user share crap, tell us straight you gonna pay us 25c per image or whatever the case. Sold 19 last month made $27 sold 36 this month made $29.

11 sales, exactly 11 dollars.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: cobalt on March 02, 2019, 04:43
February it was 10 sales for 3 dollars.

Not very encouraging trend.

Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: angelawaye on March 02, 2019, 22:53
That is awful. Aren't they exclusive too? Better off just doing SS and AS at that rate.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: rushay on March 03, 2019, 02:14
That is awful. Aren't they exclusive too? Better off just doing SS and AS at that rate.

They not exclusive, they changed to a new system where they allocate money to the amount of images use per month and split that with their monthly cost based on your images use. It just sounds like a ripoff to me. Especially when you giving client unlimited downloads. This monthly i basically made the same amount as last month with double the amount of sales as the previous month.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: cobalt on March 03, 2019, 15:30
They are non exclusive, but with results like these, they will only get content suitable for those price levels. Might also deaktivate some files, we will see. But I do have content for low earner agencies.

I gave them some really nice stuff...if they don‘t want that, their choice.

But I am still in wait and see mode. People make mistakes, agencies change their planes and strategies.

They are very new, I‘ll put them on observation and focus my attention elsewhere.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: MysteryShot on April 10, 2019, 16:40
Another "Great News" Twenty20 is now a part of Envato...
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: cobalt on April 10, 2019, 17:02
Here is the announcement:

"Hey there!

We’re writing today with some exciting news for Twenty20. Our company and site are joining the Envato ecosystem!

Higher earnings, a far bigger audience, and better tools for your craft!

Envato, based in sunny Australia, operates a huge creative marketplace, and world leading creative subscription, where millions of freelancers, agencies and marketers source images, video, music and more. They have a wonderful track record of being community minded, and are excited to bring the Twenty20 community into their global network. If you haven’t heard of them before, get a sense of them by checking out their 2018 Public Impact Report.

What does it mean for you?

In short, the Twenty20 site and app will continue on as before. For photographers making sales, we’re doubling earnings from next month onwards, and paying out a one-time bonus equivalent to your March earnings as a bit of a ‘welcome to Envato’.
On your next log in, you’ll need to review and accept the updated terms and conditions for the new Envato Twenty20, which include acceptance of the Envato-wide privacy policy.

In the longer term, we’ll be integrating Twenty20 with the Envato Elements subscription, which means lots more customers will be excitedly downloading your photos, along with the earnings they bring.

Where can I learn more?

Visit the official announcement post on the Envato Blog for more details. And get in touch with Customer Support here if you have questions.


Cheers,
The Twenty20 Team"


FWIW, envato is a place I never really got along with because their upload system is some kind of torture chamber for stock artists. Not sure if that has changed.

If as they write they will double what they pay out in the future and volume goes up, the combination of send it to twenty20 and get envato volume sales might get interesting for a certain part of my content.

It would be great to know what kind of percentage we actually get...but...transparency is not in fashion...

It might be a good option for stock newbies. twenty20 doesn't seem to reject anything, they have a nice app and a very useful Pinterest style gallery system.

I also appreciate a welcome bonus payment, at least some thought has been put into it.

So we will see.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: tickstock on April 10, 2019, 17:07
First I've heard of this site and it is probably the worst one out there.  This is the bottom of the race to the bottom only thing lower is free.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: cobalt on April 10, 2019, 17:17
They were originally paying out 10 dollars, then 5, then 2 dollars a download for quite some time.

A few months ago they changed their system and now I seem to be getting 30-50 cents. Disappointing to before, but not very different from Shutterstock.

If they will now double that, it will be 60 cents to a dollar, which is perfectly reasonable for ultra generic content.

So, not really that dramatic and none of the 2 cents downloads getty likes to give us.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: tickstock on April 10, 2019, 17:31
They were originally paying out 10 dollars, then 5, then 2 dollars a download for quite some time.

A few months ago they changed their system and now I seem to be getting 30-50 cents. Disappointing to before, but not very different from Shutterstock.

If they will now double that, it will be 60 cents to a dollar, which is perfectly reasonable for ultra generic content.

So, not really that dramatic and none of the 2 cents downloads getty likes to give us.
It costs $99 to download as many files as you want.  If someone downloaded 10,000 files in a month you would get 99/10,000 or less than 1 penny each.  They could download 1,000,000 and you get 1 penny per 100 files (and then see discs of them for sale on ebay).
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: cobalt on April 10, 2019, 17:51
Yes, I know. At the moment I am getting 30-50 cents.

There is theory, there is the real world.

The only place licensing my files for 2 cents and often for far less than 1 cent is Gettyimages.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: tickstock on April 10, 2019, 18:03
Yes, I know. At the moment I am getting 30-50 cents.

There is theory, there is the real world.

The only place licensing my files for 2 cents and often for far less than 1 cent is Gettyimages.
Have you read the terms, they basically can pay whatever they feel like.  Did you know that they can take a cut of your sales for directing clients to buy things from non-contributors for example.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: cobalt on April 10, 2019, 18:22
How can it get any worse than  gettyimages?

These people gave my files away for free over 1.3 million times...

I'd say for now I have more faith in twenty20. Whatever you potentially accuse them of, Getty has already done to thousands of producers.

It is not a major player anyway, they are a tiny outfit. They are not going to be the next Shutterstock.

But they have a really lovely gallery system, the most useful I know from any agency.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: tickstock on April 10, 2019, 18:26
Your argument is that Getty is terrible but you still contribute there so who cares about all the other sites.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: cobalt on April 10, 2019, 18:35
No, I am saying I make my own decisions. All the content I have on Getty comes via partners, I gave up my House contract in 2013.

And the content that goes there via eyeem is content where I can live with the risk that getty can at absolutely any moment come in and do something horrible.

I have content for all price points and different marketplaces, even very risky ones.

If EyeEm was mostly selling directly, I might give them better content, but it is what it is and the risk determines what they get.

Same for twenty20. When they paid 10 dollars they got better files.

At 30 cents, they will get what is appropriate for those returns.

But the most aggressive race to the bottom is happening at gettyimages, which is a huge gorilla in the market. twenty20 is a tiny fly.

Getty is the one leading the downturn with their 2 cent sales and free give aways. Think of the people who lost their content to 400 million Google plus users. But they were paid....6 dollars.

What Getty does affects the entire industry.

twenty20 is place most people have never heard of.

But I like them for people who are completely new to stock, they can learn a lot there, it is very useful and the app is beautiful and user friendly.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: rushay on April 10, 2019, 22:28
Envato acquired Twenty20. I am not sure if their relationship are active but i've been seeing a increase in downloads.

How can it get any worse than  gettyimages?

These people gave my files away for free over 1.3 million times...

I'd say for now I have more faith in twenty20. Whatever you potentially accuse them of, Getty has already done to thousands of producers.

It is not a major player anyway, they are a tiny outfit. They are not going to be the next Shutterstock.

But they have a really lovely gallery system, the most useful I know from any agency.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: bestravelvideo on April 11, 2019, 02:57
If you sign in, terms state you need to accept you grant them access to give your assets for free for promotional reasons. Does this mean the monthly freebies they distribute or other promos we do not know about? Also has someone understood the price range contributors will earn from photos?
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: tickstock on April 11, 2019, 10:21
If you sign in, terms state you need to accept you grant them access to give your assets for free for promotional reasons. Does this mean the monthly freebies they distribute or other promos we do not know about? Also has someone understood the price range contributors will earn from photos?
Who knows?  If you can figure it out good for you:
"Net Revenue: Gross subscription revenue less all fixed fees payable to Contributors for Items downloaded, taxes (including VAT, GST and other transactional taxes paid by us or the buyer), refunds, reversals, affiliate costs, costs we incur in relation to services offered as part of the Envato Twenty20 subscription (including, without limitation, amounts we agree to pay to third party service providers and other costs we incur in making those services available to customers), costs we incur in commissioning or directly licensing content for Envato Twenty20 from non-contributors, discounts and promotional offers, and payment processing fees. Subscription revenue received in currencies other than US dollars (for example, Euro) will be converted to US dollars prior to the calculation of the Net Revenue in US dollars."

If they sell a monthly subscription for $99 and the buyer licenses 1,000 images (it's unlimited so someone could download every image on the site) you would get ($99 - taxes - refunds - affiliate costs - other costs - promos - processing fees)/1,000. 
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: Peruphotoart on April 26, 2019, 12:23
Most of my photographs are rejected, some advice !, and another question, the photographs that are rejected is suggested to eliminate them, I do not want likes or expositions, I WANT TO SELL
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: MysteryShot on April 26, 2019, 15:04
Most of my photographs are rejected, some advice !, and another question, the photographs that are rejected is suggested to eliminate them, I do not want likes or expositions, I WANT TO SELL


Hi there,
Do you have the rejected images elsewhere like SS AS?, because T20 does an automated reverse image search and if they see it on other sites it gets rejected, even though their are not exclusive.. weird huh?
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: lostintimeline on April 26, 2019, 17:45
so if i now keep using twenty20 the images  that i upload them i cant put them anywhere else?
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: Peruphotoart on April 26, 2019, 21:03
Most of my photographs are rejected, some advice !, and another question, the photographs that are rejected is suggested to eliminate them, I do not want likes or expositions, I WANT TO SELL


Hi there,
Do you have the rejected images elsewhere like SS AS?, because T20 does an automated reverse image search and if they see it on other sites it gets rejected, even though their are not exclusive.. weird huh?

They explained to me the opposite, that as they see it in other places of sale of images you have to authenticate that they are yours, I sent them dozens of emails but they do not answer me
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: MysteryShot on April 27, 2019, 11:00
Most of my photographs are rejected, some advice !, and another question, the photographs that are rejected is suggested to eliminate them, I do not want likes or expositions, I WANT TO SELL


Hi there,
Do you have the rejected images elsewhere like SS AS?, because T20 does an automated reverse image search and if they see it on other sites it gets rejected, even though their are not exclusive.. weird huh?

They explained to me the opposite, that as they see it in other places of sale of images you have to authenticate that they are yours, I sent them dozens of emails but they do not answer me

Like i said if they see the same content elsewhere they reject it, i wrote to them about the same issue i had, they answered "we understand bla blah blah"

Best is upload first to them T20, than day later to other agencies.
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: MysteryShot on April 27, 2019, 11:02
But this can "will" change since they are now part of envato... lets see
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: Peruphotoart on April 30, 2019, 14:25
Well, the days continue and they do not answer me, I'm sorry, I can not be comfortable with this agency because I see that now the latter is generating other profits in other taxpayers, if I get any news I will publish it
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: MysteryShot on May 01, 2019, 14:34
Does Envato (Australia) witheld every sale tax, like buyers from other countries outside AUS?
...or is it like SS  ???
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: Mir on July 06, 2019, 03:29
$2.80 for 7 sales
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: lostintimeline on July 06, 2019, 18:39
and you still with them?
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: MysteryShot on August 02, 2019, 18:59
July, 20 more sales than June, earned $70 less ...
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: MysteryShot on August 06, 2019, 14:49
Anyone received their payment yet  ???
Title: Re: Twenty20
Post by: fotoroad on August 07, 2019, 11:28
Anyone received their payment yet  ???
Yes, yesterday