Hey MSG Folks,

I've noticed an alarming trend in my sales the last three months- My RPD is dropping quite a bit. January it was .71 and this month it is now around .47. My sales volume has gone up but the RPD is dropping fast!  Does this mean my portfolio has only pics that are of min use to the business world? One person told me that I have the 'Walmart' approach on my business model- lot's of sales but small profit lines thus I will need over 10,000 pics to see a decent payout. Any suggestions on how I can get my RPD to a higher level?

Maybe this is typical of a rookie?


Thanks.

Tom

To me, the only thing that counts, is a good payout towards the end of the month. I dont care about the RPD, etc, etc, as long as the revenue is good. Dont really understand the people worrying about this?  and if its such an issue, maybe they should stick to RM/RF.

Honestly I don't have a clue what my RPD is, not even a ball park figure. If you have signed up for subs on an agency, or if an agency you are with has just started offering subs your RPD could go through the floor while your profit goes up.
What's your RPI like, dropping RPI would be of interest to me (not necessarily a big concern as long as total income was increasing)

i think RPD == return per Download ?

What's your RPI like, dropping RPI would be of interest to me (not necessarily a big concern as long as total income was increasing)

+1

RPI is the thing to watch. 

And it's quite possible to do VERY well with a small portfolio (just 1 or 2 thousand pics).  They just have to be the RIGHT pics.  You could have 10,000 pics in your port, but if they're not in demand or if there's a ton of competition and you're not offering a unique take, you might as well shoot for 100,000 before seeing a decent payout.

I just mentioned this in another thread...I've been working on this over the past couple of weeks as well.

I am seeing the same thing...years ago, it was closer to 86 cents per image on average...these days it's closer to 64 cents per image on average.  I agree on the Walmart analogy.  I've dumped a few agencies because of this as well - it's not worth my time.

With relation to your comment about 10,000 images to make a decent payout, I've started using the "revenue per portfolio image" approach.  I take the total revenue for the month, then divide it by the number of images in my portfolio.  Then I take the payout amount at the agency and divide it by that number.

As an example, at Dreamstime, you have a $100 payout.  If I take my revenue per portfolio image average of .03644 cents then divide 100 by that amount, I compute that I need 3,644 images in my portfolio to make payout on an average month.

I think that makes a lot of sense.  I'll give it a try.  Thanks.

I calculated the earnings per image per month from each of the main sites last year, and tracked it by quarter. Not a lot of work if you already have the data, but this is the table that summarizes the results.


I've no idea if these are good, bad or indifferent - they simply are stats from my own images on the stock sites I submit to.

The full discussion is here: http://www.backyardsilver.com/2011/12/earnings-per-image-what-can-you-make-from-each-photo/

Steve

Quote from: luissantos84 on April 20, 2012, 11:19

Quote from: Ed on April 20, 2012, 10:14

As an example, at Dreamstime, you have a $100 payout.  If I take my revenue per portfolio image average of .03644 cents then divide 100 by that amount, I compute that I need 3,644 images in my portfolio to make payout on an average month.

sorry but thats the same as RPI

RPI is different.  RPI is revenue per image downloaded.

I'm talking revenue per portfolio image - not all of the images in your portfolio will be downloaded on every given month.  Take the total revenue and divide it by EVERY image in your portfolio.

They are two different things.

RPI = return per image (in your portfolio or per submitted whether accepted or not - some people calculate it either way) I think per submitted is more honest, otherwise you could delete all your non - sellers and send RPI through the roof.
RPD= return per download


What really matters at the end of the month is the total income. RPI and RPD are ways of trying to track how different sites and months compare, but the total income at the end is all that really matters.

Quote from: Ed on April 20, 2012, 11:24

Quote from: luissantos84 on April 20, 2012, 11:19

Quote from: Ed on April 20, 2012, 10:14

As an example, at Dreamstime, you have a $100 payout.  If I take my revenue per portfolio image average of .03644 cents then divide 100 by that amount, I compute that I need 3,644 images in my portfolio to make payout on an average month.

sorry but thats the same as RPI

RPI is different.  RPI is revenue per image downloaded.

I'm talking revenue per portfolio image - not all of the images in your portfolio will be downloaded on every given month.  Take the total revenue and divide it by EVERY image in your portfolio.

They are two different things.

For me, RPI is revenue per image CREATED.  If I waste my time on a bunch of images that don't sell or don't even get accepted into my ports at the major agencies, I still count those because I'm concerned about how the amount of work I do translates into real money.  My bad images that don't sell or don't get accepted have to factor into that equation.

agree, like you have said a while ago

LOL...and this is why people get confused when others talk about $2.30 RPI in their portfolio (and why I never believe them) 

My RPI (for month of March) was $3.92.   Daily hovers around $.12.  No tricks.

Quote from: luissantos84 on April 20, 2012, 11:19

Quote from: Ed on April 20, 2012, 10:14

As an example, at Dreamstime, you have a $100 payout.  If I take my revenue per portfolio image average of .03644 cents then divide 100 by that amount, I compute that I need 3,644 images in my portfolio to make payout on an average month.

sorry but thats the same as RPI

RPI is different.  RPI is revenue per image downloaded.

I'm talking revenue per portfolio image - not all of the images in your portfolio will be downloaded on every given month.  Take the total revenue and divide it by EVERY image in your portfolio.

They are two different things.

I am here stratching my head because I really think it is the same thing, why do I say this? because my RPI is the $$ I have made on a agency divided by the portfolio I have at the same.. which is exactly what you are saying no?

sorry got it lol portfolio all of it, you take the average?

I calculated the earnings per image per month from each of the main sites last year, and tracked it by quarter. Not a lot of work if you already have the data, but this is the table that summarizes the results.


I've no idea if these are good, bad or indifferent - they simply are stats from my own images on the stock sites I submit to.

The full discussion is here: http://www.backyardsilver.com/2011/12/earnings-per-image-what-can-you-make-from-each-photo/

Steve

That's very useful information, and the reason why, malgr� tout, istock exclusiveness is still attractive for me, as mi Return per Image/Month is noticeably higher than the sum of all your averages at different sites. I'm also seeing an increase in my RPD; the loss of sales seems bigger in small sizes, while L to XXXL stands and gain in percentage. Light increase in E+ prizes can have a role too.

Quote from: Ed on April 20, 2012, 11:53

LOL...and this is why people get confused when others talk about $2.30 RPI in their portfolio (and why I never believe them) 

My RPI (for month of March) was $3.92.   Daily hovers around $.12.  No tricks.

I think it also useful to include some sort of "time spent per image" calculation in addition to just RPI. My RPI is quite low(~$.60-.70), but it only takes me about 20 minutes on average to produce an image(shoot and post-process). I shoot inanimate objects, in mostly natural light, so I can knock them out pretty quick, as opposed to having to setup time with models, lighting etc.
From content created in the last year I have earned approx $3000 , and spent about 120 hours to create them. So thats about $25 per hour. Of course that per hour number increases over time, since the time spent is fixed, but the $ returned keeps rising.

Someone who spends 5 times the amount of time to create an image, and whose RPI is 5x as high, is no better off than the person with 5x as many images, but whose RPI is 1/5 as high, since they spent the same amount of time to earn the $,

Stockmarketer, the images in your port are primarily illustrations, and I am guessing they take quite a bit more time to produce than mine. Have you ever calculated the "return per hour" instead of RPI?

Quote from: Ed on April 20, 2012, 11:53

LOL...and this is why people get confused when others talk about $2.30 RPI in their portfolio (and why I never believe them) 

My RPI (for month of March) was $3.92.   Daily hovers around $.12.  No tricks.

That is really impressive, as you know I calculate the same way as you and hover around the 3.50 mark

Who said I do primarily illustrations?  That's not true. 

[/quote]

So you do photography? The portfolio I was assuming is yours is 3D/illustration images. Maybe I have the wrong port.

Great return numbers you're getting, either way though.

It is really the right way to assess a business (rpi) if you treat it like a business. A real company is not going to want to invest in production costs if there is no return.  RPI really must be a key measure of business success.  Why? What if you plot RPI over time and you are on a downward trend? Now there's a lot that can cause that but wouldn't you want to know?

I'd say overall income is the most important stat. RPI and RPD are good stats, but they are more for forecasting or formulating strategies. A falling RPI doesn't really concern me as long as my income is rising. I see RPI as more of a gauge for success or failure of a particular agency. Sites with really low RPI usually aren't worth the time to continue uploading to.

That is correct, RPI is useful for business planning and forecasting. Of course what I want is a high total income. RPI helps me know where I'm heading and how to get there.

+1

PS: Here's a secret I've spotted about people who are ahead of me in the lists ... they all seem to take better photos than I do. I expect that's because they calculate RPIs. 

 

I wholeheartedly agree with BT!  When I first came across all these RPI and RPD discussions, I started worrying about these things.  As time has gone on though, I find it a complete waste of time and energy.  Energy I prefer to spend thinking up ideas and turning them into creative adventures.  As long as my overall income increases month on month, I couldn't care less about the minutiae.  Life's too short.

Great post Baldrick.  I prefer to shoot what interests me as well, and still try to get as much enjoyment out of each shoot as possible.  When I get too bogged down with the business aspects of microstock, my creativity dries up. 

I do keep track of RPI and RPD, but only out of casual interest.  Overall earnings, and performance of each site interests me a lot more. 

Well, you can all sit and plot your RPIs and RPDs and RPI/As and whatever. I just do what I like and that works for me. If I really intended to get rich I would follow Yuri's lead and carry out a detailed analysis of the top-selling images to see what angle of the model's head sells best, what position the hands should be in etc. etc. but I'd rather enjoy life than spend time poring over numbers or doing statistical analysis.

I guess I'm still in the top 1,000 overall and the top 100 of the non-people portfolios and I've never chased these numbers you're worked up about.

PS: Here's a secret I've spotted about people who are ahead of me in the lists ... they all seem to take better photos than I do. I expect that's because they calculate RPIs. 

PS: Here's a secret I've spotted about people who are ahead of me in the lists ... they all seem to take better photos than I do. I expect that's because they calculate RPIs. 

Are you sure it's not RPD that you should be calculating into the late hours of the night?

#1:

If your images are good enough then they will sell. If they're not then they won't. No point in concocting elaborate conspiracy theories to explain a lack of sales because that is unlikely to be the issue.

Should I add something about studying RPD and PDI will not create more sales? It's just an indication of what has already happened. (kind of like trends in sports betting...)

I'm still considering lopping off about 100 non-sellers on SS to make my sales statistics more impressive. 

Again, that wouldn't work, because you should be calculating RPI based on the number of images created, not on which ones are currently up on any given site.

+1.  Exactly.  It seems there are a handful of us who see the usefulness in stepping back and saying, "Is the work I'm doing paying off, or am I just spinning my wheels?"  RPI is simply the payoff for work put into this pursuit.  The whole notion of killing non-performers to improve RPI is delusional... it achieves the opposite of what RPI is supposed to help you track.  Yes, you should try to identify the non-performers... but the action you should take from this knowledge is to stop creating more pics like those moving forward and see if your RPI rises... DON'T just DELETE the past non-performers while you keep creating more like them. 

I want to know that I am creating new stuff that is selling right out of the gate, or if it is not connecting with buyers.  An overall RPI across all sites is the best indicator of this.  Yes, you have to consider other factors like changes in the overall business (I keep tabs on this here), and seasonal changes (I plot monthly RPI against the same months for the past several years to track these variations), but in general, once I adjust for these factors, a steady RPI means I'm on the right course and a falling one means I'm not and need to adjust my subject matter or style because my current stuff isn't connecting with buyers.

To everyone who says, "All I care about is my total earnings... if it's growing, then I'm doing the right thing"... I think this is like having your head in the sand.  Your growth could simply be coming from older pics selling better and better but your new stuff is DOA.  If you're afraid what real-time RPI will tell you, ignore it at your own peril.    After a number of years in ms, I'm still on a pretty solid growth track, and I'm pretty confident it's because I watch my numbers like a hawk and make daily changes in my direction from this knowledge... yes, I analyze my numbers every day with the help of a spreadsheet with tons of formulas built into it to automatically crunch numbers a hundred different ways so I don't have to do anything but plug in the day's sales at each agency. 

Information is power.  Better information empowers you to make better decisions.  There.  I'll try to make those my last words on the subject.

To everyone who says, "All I care about is my total earnings... if it's growing, then I'm doing the right thing"... I think this is like having your head in the sand.  Your growth could simply be coming from older pics selling better and better but your new stuff is DOA.  If you're afraid what real-time RPI will tell you, ignore it at your own peril.  

I honestly don't understand this.  I do a visual check of what sells every day, and I can tell from that what sells and what doesn't.  I use that visual reference to tell me which subjects have a good market, which subjects don't and which subjects might be failing because I didn't think the pictures through well enough.   I watch both my port and the market and consider carefully on past performance what to shoot and how to make every shot count.  I just don't think I need to calculate RPI to tell me what I can see by straightforward observation.

Mind you, I've always thought number-obsession was more a 'boy thing'.    <duck>

ETA:  I'm not afraid of what my RPI will tell me.  Far from it.  I've just 'been there, done that' and didn't find that it had any advantage over what my eyes tell me from looking at the agency information.  I prefer to do it this way because it doesn't break my creative flow so much - it keeps my mind in a more fluid state.  

Each to his own.

[Deleted post]

Apologies I didn't mean to presume! 

I used to do it like that too, and that works fine if you are selling a few or even a few hundred images per month. If you are licensing somewhere in excess of 6000 images per month, trying to get a visual reference gets more tricky.

That sounds like too many, you need to get that number down. 

I used to follow my numbers and sales more closely, then iStock went crazy, Shutterstock stopped growing and everybody else was playing a shell game with their numbers. And that was the end of that.

Ah well, if you're going to beat it into me... I suppose I'll have to accept it graciously.

But for the record, I didn't think you sounded the way you think at all.  You always seem perfectly charming to me.

I calculated the earnings per image per month from each of the main sites last year, and tracked it by quarter. Not a lot of work if you already have the data, but this is the table that summarizes the results.


I've no idea if these are good, bad or indifferent - they simply are stats from my own images on the stock sites I submit to.

The full discussion is here: http://www.backyardsilver.com/2011/12/earnings-per-image-what-can-you-make-from-each-photo/

Steve

this is a common mistake - you cant simply add up averages with different denominators [portfolio size in  this case] to get a 'total' RPI - instead you have to add the total income from all sites and divide by the total # of images in your portfolio.    this will of course still give distortions, since your entire portfolio wont be represented on any 1 site.

it just exposes how little use stats lie RPI and even more so, RPD - they don't really give any indication of what is probably more important -- actual income.    every portfolio is unique, so a $2 RPI may be fine on a small portfolio, but it will make less money than a $.02 RPI on a huge portfolio.

Quote from: Mantis on April 22, 2012, 15:02

Quote from: Microbius on April 22, 2012, 03:26

Quote from: stockmarketer on April 20, 2012, 11:59

Quote from: Ed on April 20, 2012, 11:53

LOL...and this is why people get confused when others talk about $2.30 RPI in their portfolio (and why I never believe them) 

My RPI (for month of March) was $3.92.   Daily hovers around $.12.  No tricks.

That is really impressive, as you know I calculate the same way as you and hover around the 3.50 mark

It is really the right way to assess a business (rpi) if you treat it like a business. A real company is not going to want to invest in production costs if there is no return.  RPI really must be a key measure of business success.  Why? What if you plot RPI over time and you are on a downward trend? Now there's a lot that can cause that but wouldn't you want to know?

again, it's irrelevant - if i contribute 4000 images to 3 new sites that don't sell, my RPI will nosedive, but as long as my income from major sites increases, i'm fine.  as others have said, the COST of producing or submitting images is just as important

Did I not say production costs in my statement? I agree with you that you have to consider cost relative to success and RPI is but ONE measure of success, not the only measure of success.

Quote from: stockmarketer on April 25, 2012, 03:38

To everyone who says, "All I care about is my total earnings... if it's growing, then I'm doing the right thing"... I think this is like having your head in the sand.  Your growth could simply be coming from older pics selling better and better but your new stuff is DOA.  If you're afraid what real-time RPI will tell you, ignore it at your own peril.  

I honestly don't understand this.  I do a visual check of what sells every day, and I can tell from that what sells and what doesn't.  I use that visual reference to tell me which subjects have a good market, which subjects don't and which subjects might be failing because I didn't think the pictures through well enough.   I watch both my port and the market and consider carefully on past performance what to shoot and how to make every shot count.  I just don't think I need to calculate RPI to tell me what I can see by straightforward observation.

Mind you, I've always thought number-obsession was more a 'boy thing'.    <duck>

ETA:  I'm not afraid of what my RPI will tell me.  Far from it.  I've just 'been there, done that' and didn't find that it had any advantage over what my eyes tell me from looking at the agency information.  I prefer to do it this way because it doesn't break my creative flow so much - it keeps my mind in a more fluid state.  

Each to his own.

Yes I do exactly the same as you and I also sell thousands rather than 100s a month.   I keep an eye on how my new images are selling and monthly totals.  Like you said must be a boy thing this obsession with numbers