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Author Topic: Uniting contributors for better royalty, price control and safeguarding this industry  (Read 13945 times)

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swisschocolate

  • A girl from the Alps
« Reply #200 on: April 05, 2019, 13:07 »
0
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Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #201 on: April 05, 2019, 16:47 »
+1
I find my work used in all kinds of places, some major publications. Yes a Shutterstock image, at least once, has been a magazine cover, such as on Time. But that's not what he's writing about.

I wasn't replying to what he was writing :) I was replying to your statement: "A serious buyer with serious money, isn't going to come to even the top agencies as a regular source for images."

It is just not true.

We are missing out on the higher value contracts, and being underpaid to do that.

I'm not missing out on any contracts and all the headache they would bring to my life. I hate being hired and I feel happy and lucky I've found stock.

Let those "known professionals" deal with that. If they like it. I would never ever want to do what they do.

I understand what you're saying. But I don't understand why there is such awe for "real pro photographers", while devaluing stock photographers.
These are two different worlds and each one with its own rules.

But don't expect the enterprise-level photo publishing business to come to Microstock for their images. They will keep sourcing from known professionals.
And here we go again... I just said that I constantly find stock images used by them for a decade and you keep saying they don't use it and never will.

Sorry, but it's impossible to discuss something that is just so far from the reality.

Difference of opinion and possibly the content we make. Used for a decade? Was that for 39 cents or $200?

Discussion is good, even if we disagree.

I didn't say no one or never will, just that they won't as a regular source. There's big difference. I think you understand that?

I'm not in awe of the professionals, because may Microstock people are just as good. Or maybe I am in awe, because there are some very professional Microstock producers? If the people who license our work are unhappy with their choices, and go direct, that doesn't help our market, value or appearance of quality.

Please stop putting your interpretations into my thoughts and turning what I write into something I didn't write.

« Reply #202 on: April 06, 2019, 09:18 »
0
Just a thought, what if the low paying agencies actually violate the antitrust laws, I'm thinking predatory pricing...? If they're doing something illegal and it's brought to light, then they will have to stop.

predatory pricing: the pricing of goods or services at such a low level that other firms cannot compete and are forced to leave the market.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/09/antitrust-law.asp

Tryingmybest

  • Stand up for what is right
« Reply #203 on: April 06, 2019, 09:34 »
+1
Whilst a good idea sadly getting stock contributors to do anything as a collective group is like herding cats  :(

It is difficult to organize any group of individuals for united action. The difference between those who are successful and those who are not is those who never give up trying.

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #204 on: April 06, 2019, 09:55 »
+1
Whilst a good idea sadly getting stock contributors to do anything as a collective group is like herding cats  :(

It is difficult to organize any group of individuals for united action. The difference between those who are successful and those who are not is those who never give up trying.

Plus you can be as organized and caring and unified as you want, but without power or leverage, over the agencies, you have nothing but wishes and philosophy.

If anyone can come up with a realistic plan or way to hold some power over the agencies, I'm in.

Until then we are just willing victims of our own making. I create, I upload, I get some pittance. My other choice is, don't upload, don't get anything. (I'm never going to stop making photos)

Best of this recent round was Virtual Agency. That would possibly work. I don't see one that's active or practical. Just some close to that, places.

swisschocolate

  • A girl from the Alps
« Reply #205 on: April 06, 2019, 11:18 »
+2
Watching closely SS "great news" for illustrators thread... https://forums.submit.shutterstock.com/topic/96928-shutterstock-has-made-uploading-vectors-easier-than-ever

Such moment may be a good opportunity to form a union, if someone would have a plan how to actually make it...

Otherwise looks scary. Wondering if illustrators will find a way to change the decision.
As for now, there is a petition and many many posts.

What else could help them? Stop uploading all together? But what is the instrument to organize such big virtual crowd?

« Reply #206 on: April 06, 2019, 11:26 »
+3
As long as there are contributors ok with I would rather make pennies than nothing at all, nothing will change. Contributors with big portfolios say they will just stop uploading, as if the sites care, rather than taking their business elsewhere, because after all, still taking the agencys money is better than nothing at all. Every couple of months, a noob comes up with this idea. Check the threads here about it. Its a great idea, but unless you have a boatload of money to do something concrete, you are just spinning your wheels. It takes money.

Completely agree. I don't upload any more at iStock for months. They must raise the commission rate for non-exclusive contributors. I cannot accept to sell my images for two cents. About this idea I agree with Cathy, is an utopia, impossible to realize.

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #207 on: April 07, 2019, 09:56 »
0
Watching closely SS "great news" for illustrators thread... https://forums.submit.shutterstock.com/topic/96928-shutterstock-has-made-uploading-vectors-easier-than-ever

Such moment may be a good opportunity to form a union, if someone would have a plan how to actually make it...

Otherwise looks scary. Wondering if illustrators will find a way to change the decision.
As for now, there is a petition and many many posts.

What else could help them? Stop uploading all together? But what is the instrument to organize such big virtual crowd?

That would be true, maybe someone can come up with an idea.

« Reply #208 on: April 07, 2019, 10:52 »
+1
The closest I can think of in terms of community and virtual agency for videos, that's Blackbox. They only upload to SS, AS, P5, SB, and VS, so not to the low payers and require 'exclusivity' on these clips, they also have a real community via Facebook where people help each other. Revenue sharing is also encouraged which is more fair for actors or anyone else involved in the process (rather than getting a flat fee upfront, they get a % of sales for as long as clip sells).
Blackbox does take 15% of net sales however, so that's not for everybody.

« Reply #209 on: April 07, 2019, 11:57 »
+4
Blackbox does take 15% of net sales however, so that's not for everybody.

...and less than 0.7% of their clips on Pond5 have sold, so what happened to "great visibility"? :)

Only 27 clips out of half a million have 5 sales or more, and they've been around for a while now.

But it is a great way to get lost in the mix. ;)
« Last Edit: April 07, 2019, 12:00 by increasingdifficulty »

« Reply #210 on: April 08, 2019, 07:22 »
+2
It's hard to get past the raw idea stage when just the mere mention of contributor empowerment triggers a bunch of defeatist negativity. What is your goal, exactly? Again, you guys don't think it will work, you think it's been tried as best as it's ever been tried and that's all the proof you need. Good for you. Will you be happy once everyone that has a glimmer of hope is knocked down to your level?

You read too much into this.  Feel free to go ahead with whatever you like, but in six months, we'll just be pointing back to this thread when the next person posts "Let's form a union!!!".  That's experience talking.

I read too much into this? All I suggested was that people relax for a second with the constant "I know it all. I've seen it all. You can't have an original idea without my consent" commentary flooding these sorts of threads and let the thread live or die on it's own. And here's exactly the smug, arrogant, no-vision-having sort of response I expected. Seems like you people get off on coming in here and smashing to bits any hopes of even getting to a brainstorm point of improving contributor empowerment. Some of you are even sitting there with a finger hovering over the reply button waiting to disagree with anything that critiques the stock companies, within seconds. Are you actually being compensated by them or are you trolling against your own best interests for free?

I ask again, for the third time, WHAT IS YOUR GOAL? Why are you people so oddly motivated to act and speak up AGAINST fellow contributors that want to improve life for ALL CONTRIBUTORS? You refuse to answer, why? Where are all of you when it's time to push back on the latest stock company greed move? Noticeably silent. Unless it's a blanket defense of the company. Yet, you're so confidant and persistent with your criticisms of even the vague concept of putting power back in artists hands. How many times have these negative people chimed into this thread? A lot, huh? Weird, right? What are they afraid of?

For every "hey. maybe there's an idea....", there's 50 posts ripping it to bits. This thread will die BECAUSE of you and the other fatalists that have no vision and are scared to death of angering the stock companies. You come into here before any concepts can even be halfway formed and spread the same repeated bs lines, over and over. You clearly WANT this to fail. Do you even know what your agenda is??

If I could make one suggestion, as I can't stomach reading the misguided arrogance in this thread: A fresh topic should be started for ideas on this concept, with the REQUEST that all defeatist commentary without any substance (such as the quote above) be left out and keep it only a thread to actually discuss possible ideas to improve contributor empowerment. Those with a positive forward vision are clearly outnumbered by negative reactionists, so it would be a unique experiment to see if something positive could grow from it when free from the over-whelming negative premature conclusions. Of course, it could only work if these trolls could control themselves instead of relentlessly salting the earth, actively fulfilling their own predictions of failure.

Worst case scenario: no good ideas come of it, and it dies due to lack of interest. Would it be too much to ask to let that happen on it's own?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 07:50 by Daryl Ray »

« Reply #211 on: April 08, 2019, 07:55 »
+1
Great post ... I agree with you 100%!!!
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 07:58 by outdoorfreak »

« Reply #212 on: April 08, 2019, 08:05 »
+9
This thread will die BECAUSE of you and the other fatalists that have no vision and are scared to death of angering the stock companies.

Oh, the drama!

Sorry, I didnt realize we elected you to moderate.  This is a discussions board and everyone is free to contribute to the discussion as they like.  If youre going to actually DO something, then go right ahead.  Nobody is stopping you.

« Reply #213 on: April 08, 2019, 08:17 »
0
This thread will die BECAUSE of you and the other fatalists that have no vision and are scared to death of angering the stock companies.

Oh, the drama!

Sorry, I didnt realize we elected you to moderate.  This is a discussions board and everyone is free to contribute to the discussion as they like.  If youre going to actually DO something, then go right ahead.  Nobody is stopping you.

Do you understand that I'm simply requesting that this thread not be flooded with biased commentary without substance?

What if me and several other contributors decided to chime into every polite iStock and Stocksy sales discussion thread with our opinions on those companies? Over and over and over? It would be arrogant, rude, something that should be discouraged, wouldn't it? You'd ask us to stop, wouldn't you?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 08:20 by Daryl Ray »

« Reply #214 on: April 08, 2019, 08:35 »
+4
Maybe you should start a discussion on a private site where you can control the flow to your liking.

« Reply #215 on: April 08, 2019, 08:40 »
0
It's interesting how triggered some people get over asking that a given thread not be derailed from it's intended discussion by regurgitated junk. So weird that a dude with a port like yours and due respect is arguing with an anonymous person on a forum about it. Strange times indeed.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 08:46 by Daryl Ray »

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #216 on: April 08, 2019, 09:07 »
+3
It's interesting how triggered some people get over asking that a given thread not be derailed from it's intended discussion by regurgitated junk. So weird that a dude with a port like yours and due respect is arguing with an anonymous person on a forum about it. Strange times indeed.

But you don't respect our opinion, because it doesn't agree with yours? Calling names, attacking individuals integrity, or accusing others of "Why are you people so oddly motivated to act and speak up AGAINST fellow contributors that want to improve life for ALL CONTRIBUTORS?" Calling people fatalists, defeatists and "...I can't stomach reading the misguided arrogance in this thread:"

Good luck with your ideas and plans, but don't expect that everyone will agree. You need to be open minded and accept other views, experience and information.

You see respectfully disagreement needs to be included, and I find your attacks and name calling of people who have a different viewpoint, quite disrespectful.


« Reply #217 on: April 08, 2019, 09:11 »
+4
Daryl,

please, just go and DO something.

Anything productive would be better than your endless bickering against the artist community.

Nobody is standing in your way. You are not a victim.

Be a doer, not a complainer.

Move forward.

ETA: Or are you too lazy to even start your own facebook/social media group?

Too scared to put out real name and portfolio?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 09:33 by cobalt »

« Reply #218 on: April 08, 2019, 09:51 »
+2
This thread will die BECAUSE of you and the other fatalists that have no vision and are scared to death of angering the stock companies.

Oh, the drama!

Sorry, I didnt realize we elected you to moderate.  This is a discussions board and everyone is free to contribute to the discussion as they like.  If youre going to actually DO something, then go right ahead.  Nobody is stopping you.

Do you understand that I'm simply requesting that this thread not be flooded with biased commentary without substance?

What if me and several other contributors decided to chime into every polite iStock and Stocksy sales discussion thread with our opinions on those companies? Over and over and over? It would be arrogant, rude, something that should be discouraged, wouldn't it? You'd ask us to stop, wouldn't you?
No you are requesting the thread not be flooded with things that don't agree with your bias. There's far more substance in the evidence of what has happened many times in the past compared with some theoretical unspecified future initiative which is now even less likely to succeed with many contributors on here alienated by your posts.

« Reply #219 on: April 08, 2019, 09:57 »
+4
It's interesting how triggered some people get over asking that a given thread not be derailed from it's intended discussion by regurgitated junk. So weird that a dude with a port like yours and due respect is arguing with an anonymous person on a forum about it. Strange times indeed.

I'm neither "triggered" nor "arguing", although I'd say being anonymous adds even less weight to whatever you're trying to do, so I wouldn't point that out.

« Reply #220 on: April 08, 2019, 09:57 »
+1
The reason the industry has gone to shiite is because most of us enabled it too. IS was the beginning of the end, then SS and 0.25c subs was the kiss of death for the industry, with the rest to follow suite, and now the water has found it's own level. Not a heck of a lot anyone can do to make it fair and "sustainable" at this point. It's sort of an "I told you so" (circa 2007) situation for me.

« Reply #221 on: April 08, 2019, 10:08 »
+3
The reason the industry has gone to shiite is because most of us enabled it too. IS was the beginning of the end, then SS and 0.25c subs was the kiss of death for the industry, with the rest to follow suite, and now the water has found it's own level. Not a heck of a lot anyone can do to make it fair and "sustainable" at this point. It's sort of an "I told you so" (circa 2007) situation for me.
Changes in Digital Technology and the Internet enabled it. Like many comparable industries.

« Reply #222 on: April 08, 2019, 10:55 »
+1
Quote
and less than 0.7% of their clips on Pond5 have sold, so what happened to "great visibility"? :)

Only 27 clips out of half a million have 5 sales or more, and they've been around for a while now.



Sorry, just curious. Is there a statistics page that we can check other people's sales?
Not interested in BB, asking in general, I didn't knew there is such an option.

?

« Reply #223 on: April 08, 2019, 12:06 »
+2
Quote
and less than 0.7% of their clips on Pond5 have sold, so what happened to "great visibility"? :)

Only 27 clips out of half a million have 5 sales or more, and they've been around for a while now.



Sorry, just curious. Is there a statistics page that we can check other people's sales?
Not interested in BB, asking in general, I didn't knew there is such an option.

?

Not immediately visible anymore, but the P5 search allows you to get a lot of information.

For example:

artist:blackboxguild

will show all clips from BlackBoxGuild. And artist:georgep7 would show all of your clips if that's your username.

salegt:0

will show clips with "sales greater than 0" = 1 sale or more.

So,

artist:blackboxguild salegt:0

in the search bar will show you all the clips by BlackBoxGuild that have 1 sale or more. Salegt:4 shows clips with 5 sales or more.

Very interesting to check some of the loud voices with strong opinions in the forums, with 3 sales from 2,000 clips... ;)

« Reply #224 on: April 08, 2019, 13:17 »
0
Hahah!? Cool.
Yes, that's my username.
Thank you for explaining.
:)


 

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