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Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Stock Discussion => Topic started by: daveh900 on March 13, 2013, 08:32
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Just curious, I found that a small restaurant in Gothenburg Sweden is using one of my designs as their logo (with very slight modifications). Is this usage considered ok?
My image:
(http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/squarelogo/squarelogo1112/squarelogo111200083/11830289-extra-spicy-stamp.jpg)
Their logo:
(http://chillirestaurang.com/onewebstatic/5f17558666-Chilli-logo.jpg)
I do not think this image has ever been sold with any extended license.
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Where did they license it from? AFAIK that is not allowed by an agency.
I have no idea where they got it. I sell at FT, DT, 123RF, SS, DP, CanStockPhoto, and BS.
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Where did they license it from? AFAIK that is not allowed by an agency.
I have no idea where they got it. I sell at FT, DT, 123RF, SS, DP, CanStockPhoto, and BS.
You'll need to read the terms of use from each agency which has licensed the image to see if any allow logos as a use. If none of them allow logo use, your case is clear. If one or more allow this use, you need to find out from where they purchased it.
^^^ and Partner sites, if applicable, like ts said. (crossed in posting)
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Where did they license it from? AFAIK that is not allowed by an agency.
I have no idea where they got it. I sell at FT, DT, 123RF, SS, DP, CanStockPhoto, and BS.
I believe your only option is really to contact them, perhaps not as a stock artist but just for curiosity (is there any site selling logos?), then you will see what to do
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Playing devils advocate here but what else did you expect by creating something that looks like a logo and selling it on micro? ;)
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Playing devils advocate here but what else did you expect by creating anything and putting it on the internet. ;)
I fixed this for you VB. ;D
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Where did they license it from? AFAIK that is not allowed by an agency.
I have no idea where they got it. I sell at FT, DT, 123RF, SS, DP, CanStockPhoto, and BS.
I believe your only option is really to contact them, perhaps not as a stock artist but just for curiosity (is there any site selling logos?), then you will see what to do
No, contacting them should be your last resort. It's bad business to bother customers. Do your homework first and find out if any site doesn't prohibit that use.
on your opinion
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Where did they license it from? AFAIK that is not allowed by an agency.
I have no idea where they got it. I sell at FT, DT, 123RF, SS, DP, CanStockPhoto, and BS.
I believe your only option is really to contact them, perhaps not as a stock artist but just for curiosity (is there any site selling logos?), then you will see what to do
No, contacting them should be your last resort. It's bad business to bother customers. Do your homework first and find out if any site doesn't prohibit that use.
on your opinion
It is my opinion that you should get your facts straight before you contact a buyer.
your opinion
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Is this an illustration that promotes a business, or a logo? I always thought an illustration only became a logo once it was registered as the unique property of that business.
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You should also check what the agency's policy is on contacting a buyer directly.
I know that iS isn't in this particular equation, but they particularly state we should not contact buyers directly; and it may or may not be that other agencies have similar views.
Mind you, the iS statement was in a forum post, so not everyone could be expected to see it. I don't know if it came out in one of their official newsletters, as there was a period of a couple of years when despite being opted in, I and many others didn't get any.
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Is this an illustration that promotes a business, or a logo? I always thought an illustration only became a logo once it was registered as the unique property of that business.
I'm not sure, but for example the twitter bird, which was an iS vector, was NOT considered to be a logo. (I'm not sure if that illo is still being used, as I don't Twit.)
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This image is clearly being used as the restaurants logo, not just an illustration used on their menu (which is what it was designed for in the first place).
(http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/03/00/15/d6/chilli-restaurang-bar.jpg)
Too bad I'm on the other side of the globe, I'd settle this for a free meal (that steak looks delicious).
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I'd contact them. They may not know that a stock illustration was used to make their logo. There are a lot of sketchy "designers" out there too. I guess I'm not one for lawsuits either, but I think it is a good philosophy to just explain to companies that this image will probably show up in dozens of other places and from dozens of other companies. So, it is a pretty poor choice for their company identity. Then, quote them a price to make a unique logo for them.
Oh yeah, and be polite. It's always a better approach. :)
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Like many others have said, I think your best bet would be to check the terms on every agency you're selling it on. I've read somewhere before that most agencies don't allow artworks to be made into logos, because logos are subjected to being trademarked or registered, and to do that you require full rights to the work. (Correct me if I'm wrong!) Since registering a mark offers protection on the artwork, it could spell trouble for a) the contributor who created it in the first place and b) other licensees that are using the same artwork.
Playing devils advocate here but what else did you expect by creating something that looks like a logo and selling it on micro? ;)
Honestly, graphics like these can just be used for a great deal more mundane purposes, such as a "spicy" tag on item menus. I don't think the creator is at all at fault here. It's up to the buyer to ensure that they're using the work they've licensed correctly and legally.
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I've seen my stuff used in logos before and I generally don't pursue it. Like vlad says, I know what the likely use of my work is, given the very logo-like style and structure of many of my designs.
If I ever saw something of mine with a ™ or ® next to it, that would be a different story. Obviously I need to protect ownership of my work. But a one-off restaurant or other small business using something of mine as a logo? I'm not likely to waste any time checking into it.
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Some follow up... This image is for sale at (with terms):
123RF: Please be aware that all usage of vector icons as company logo is prohibited.
CanStock: You can not use our content as your legal logo, or as part of products for resale.
ShutterStock: Use any Image (in whole or in part) as a trademark, service mark, logo, or other indication of origin (NO)
BigStock: You may not... Use any Image (in whole or in part) as a trademark, service mark, logo, or other indication of origin, or as part thereof, or to otherwise endorse or imply the endorsement of any goods and/or services.
FotoSearch: Licensee may not... Incorporate the Content into a logo, trademark, or service mark;
GoGraph: Licensee may not... Incorporate the Content into a logo, trademark, or service mark;
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Any partner sites?
Partner site terms don't always match the 'mother' site terms.
Logos are certainly usually prohibited.
Also I'm not certain that this restaurant IS using it as a logo. Maybe it's just a sign.
The sites always seem to find wriggle room to avoid any confrontation with buyers. At micro prices, it isn't worth pursuing.
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FT doesnt allow you to contact buyers, and they may suspend your account. But I cant find that back. I must have seen it when I signed up.
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Any partner sites?
Partner site terms don't always match the 'mother' site terms.
Logos are certainly usually prohibited.
Also I'm not certain that this restaurant IS using it as a logo. Maybe it's just a sign.
The sites always seem to find wriggle room to avoid any confrontation with buyers. At micro prices, it isn't worth pursuing.
I listed partner sites.
It's on their sign, their website, their Facebook page, their menu.... I'd call it a logo.
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What EmberMike says makes a lot of sense. :) Unless it's been added the trademark or registered mark, it's safe to assume that it's a sign for now.
Any partner sites?
Partner site terms don't always match the 'mother' site terms.
Logos are certainly usually prohibited.
Also I'm not certain that this restaurant IS using it as a logo. Maybe it's just a sign.
The sites always seem to find wriggle room to avoid any confrontation with buyers. At micro prices, it isn't worth pursuing.
When does something become a "legal logo"?
When it's trademarked or registered to the organization in question.
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I've seen my stuff used in logos before and I generally don't pursue it. Like vlad says, I know what the likely use of my work is, given the very logo-like style and structure of many of my designs.
If I ever saw something of mine with a ™ or ® next to it, that would be a different story. Obviously I need to protect ownership of my work. But a one-off restaurant or other small business using something of mine as a logo? I'm not likely to waste any time checking into it.
totally agree..
so many small businesses using the same image "as if it was their logo" is not really an issue.. because they are aware it is not legally "their" logo and many other businesses may use the same image in a same way.. this is not an exclusive usage.. and imo, if it's not exclusive, then it's not a logo really.. a LOGO must be EXCLUSIVE.. hundreds of companies using the same image? whose logo is it then? nobody's really.. this is a case where no one can "legally" own the logo.. it's impossible for any company to own it.. If they claim that it is their official logo, then they are in hot waters.. if they don't, then it's just an issue where a royalty free image is used to represent a business..
as long as they don't attempt to register or trademark an RF image, they should be fine..
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Some follow up... This image is for sale at (with terms):
123RF: Please be aware that all usage of vector icons as company logo is prohibited.
CanStock: You can not use our content as your legal logo, or as part of products for resale.
ShutterStock: Use any Image (in whole or in part) as a trademark, service mark, logo, or other indication of origin (NO)
BigStock: You may not... Use any Image (in whole or in part) as a trademark, service mark, logo, or other indication of origin, or as part thereof, or to otherwise endorse or imply the endorsement of any goods and/or services.
FotoSearch: Licensee may not... Incorporate the Content into a logo, trademark, or service mark;
GoGraph: Licensee may not... Incorporate the Content into a logo, trademark, or service mark;
Vectorstock is the only one that I know that says you can use images as a logo, but, as pointed out, it's not really a logo if everyone else can use it as their logo too.
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Some follow up... This image is for sale at (with terms):
123RF: Please be aware that all usage of vector icons as company logo is prohibited.
CanStock: You can not use our content as your legal logo, or as part of products for resale.
ShutterStock: Use any Image (in whole or in part) as a trademark, service mark, logo, or other indication of origin (NO)
BigStock: You may not... Use any Image (in whole or in part) as a trademark, service mark, logo, or other indication of origin, or as part thereof, or to otherwise endorse or imply the endorsement of any goods and/or services.
FotoSearch: Licensee may not... Incorporate the Content into a logo, trademark, or service mark;
GoGraph: Licensee may not... Incorporate the Content into a logo, trademark, or service mark;
Vectorstock is the only one that I know that says you can use images as a logo, but, as pointed out, it's not really a logo if everyone else can use it as their logo too.
One more reason to hate Vectorstock, sell for peanuts let them use it as a logo. Great
ETA under the standard license too, wow
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....then it's just an issue where a royalty free image is used to represent a business..
Disagree entirely. Isn't an image "used to represent a business" the definition of a logo?
Let's look it up...
Logo: a graphic representation or symbol of a company name, trademark, abbreviation, etc., often uniquely designed for ready recognition.
Whether it's officially registered or not, it's a logo. It's on every menu, the sign above the door, their web site, their social media, on the wall behind the bar.
It is a logo, no question about it.
It's not legal, no question about it.
There's not much I can do about it, no question about it. :P
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Some follow up... This image is for sale at (with terms):
123RF: Please be aware that all usage of vector icons as company logo is prohibited.
CanStock: You can not use our content as your legal logo, or as part of products for resale.
ShutterStock: Use any Image (in whole or in part) as a trademark, service mark, logo, or other indication of origin (NO)
BigStock: You may not... Use any Image (in whole or in part) as a trademark, service mark, logo, or other indication of origin, or as part thereof, or to otherwise endorse or imply the endorsement of any goods and/or services.
FotoSearch: Licensee may not... Incorporate the Content into a logo, trademark, or service mark;
GoGraph: Licensee may not... Incorporate the Content into a logo, trademark, or service mark;
Vectorstock is the only one that I know that says you can use images as a logo, but, as pointed out, it's not really a logo if everyone else can use it as their logo too.
One more reason to hate Vectorstock, sell for peanuts let them use it as a logo. Great
Agreed. I will never sell on Vectorstock.
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Yup, they really are terrible, I've got a few files on there from way back and they have far and away the lowest RPD in the industry. You are getting lower than sub payments for per image sales on vectors (start at 25% and price most vectors at $1)
Also the last site to boot copyright infringers, for example they are still selling this studios files (including the specific infringing ones):
http://www.microstockgroup.com/image-sleuth/biggest-rip-off-in-microstock-history (http://www.microstockgroup.com/image-sleuth/biggest-rip-off-in-microstock-history)!-shocking-finds/
No one wanting to make a living in stock should be supporting this sort of site.
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....then it's just an issue where a royalty free image is used to represent a business..
Disagree entirely. Isn't an image "used to represent a business" the definition of a logo?
Let's look it up...
Logo: a graphic representation or symbol of a company name, trademark, abbreviation, etc., often uniquely designed for ready recognition.
Whether it's officially registered or not, it's a logo. It's on every menu, the sign above the door, their web site, their social media, on the wall behind the bar.
It is a logo, no question about it.
It's not legal, no question about it.
There's not much I can do about it, no question about it. :P
Would you have said the Twitter bird was a logo?
Because it wasn't, apparently.
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....then it's just an issue where a royalty free image is used to represent a business..
Disagree entirely. Isn't an image "used to represent a business" the definition of a logo?
Let's look it up...
Logo: a graphic representation or symbol of a company name, trademark, abbreviation, etc., often uniquely designed for ready recognition.
Whether it's officially registered or not, it's a logo. It's on every menu, the sign above the door, their web site, their social media, on the wall behind the bar.
It is a logo, no question about it.
It's not legal, no question about it.
There's not much I can do about it, no question about it. :P
Would you have said the Twitter bird was a logo?
Because it wasn't, apparently.
The Twitter illustration that you are referring to was not a logo, it was the background image on their home page for while. Their logo (up until the current bird logo was developed) was simply the twitter text (no bird). See below.
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Being able to use stock vector as a logo shouldn't happen unless they have/purchase the exclusive rights to use that vector art. The main reason being what is to stop a business using said art to later sue when the art is used elsewhere. If they trademarked the logo they can do so. I would hope that if it is allowed it is stated they are not allowed to trademark the logo...but that is still iffy as who would police that? I doubt either the seller, agency or business would want this. In cases such as this I think it comes down to either a naive designer or business...or both.
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The Twitter illustration that you are referring to was not a logo, it was the background image on their home page for while. Their logo (up until the current bird logo was developed) was simply the twitter text (no bird). See below.
This still gets into a branding question which is the same thing as a logo. It's kind of a gray area. When does Mickey Mouse become Mickey Mouse? Is it when you name him? When you trademark him? When you put him in so many ads? When you spend X amount of dollars promoting him?
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Using artwork and owning it are two separate things
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Being able to use stock vector as a logo shouldn't happen unless they have/purchase the exclusive rights to use that vector art. The main reason being what is to stop a business using said art to later sue when the art is used elsewhere. If they trademarked the logo they can do so. I would hope that if it is allowed it is stated they are not allowed to trademark the logo...but that is still iffy as who would police that? I doubt either the seller, agency or business would want this. In cases such as this I think it comes down to either a naive designer or business...or both.
it's too obvious that they can't trademark it.. therefore there is no need to emphasize it imo.. how can you even remotely think of trying to trademark or register something that the original artist will continue selling on RF sites?
that would be crazy.. :D
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it's too obvious that they can't trademark it.. therefore there is no need to emphasize it imo.. how can you even remotely think of trying to trademark or register something that the original artist will continue selling on RF sites?
that would be crazy.. :D
That's what I would think, but the paranoid in me thinks that someone will one day try to usurp the copyright out from from under my nose. Kind of like squatters rights.
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Being able to use stock vector as a logo shouldn't happen unless they have/purchase the exclusive rights to use that vector art. The main reason being what is to stop a business using said art to later sue when the art is used elsewhere. If they trademarked the logo they can do so. I would hope that if it is allowed it is stated they are not allowed to trademark the logo...but that is still iffy as who would police that? I doubt either the seller, agency or business would want this. In cases such as this I think it comes down to either a naive designer or business...or both.
it's too obvious that they can't trademark it.. therefore there is no need to emphasize it imo.. how can you even remotely think of trying to trademark or register something that the original artist will continue selling on RF sites?
that would be crazy.. :D
Easy, the same reason whey full resolution images are showing up in Google search...naive buyers. There are plenty of people who feel they can use a copy written Google search image freely also. Just because it's obvious to us, doesn't mean every one is in the know
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Just because it's obvious to us, doesn't mean every one is in the know
That's what I would think, but the paranoid in me thinks that someone will one day try to usurp the copyright out from from under my nose. Kind of like squatters rights.
ok, those are good points :)
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Instead of wasting time writing 1000 e-mails and read another 1000 agreements u should ask them for free meals daily for using that image as a logo. ;D
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Instead of wasting time writing 1000 e-mails and read another 1000 agreements u should ask them for free meals daily for using that image as a logo. ;D
Solid idea except I am approximately 4,151 miles away from the restaurant in question.
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If I am not mistaken another agency who mention logos in the license, is clipartof. The license states that buyers can use clipart as a logo so long is not copyrighted or trademarked...
Do you happen to be a contributor there?
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@sweetgirll - No, I do not sell at clipartof. Thanks.
UPDATE: I contacted the business via their Facebook page. The owner responded and was very surprised to see this. He had paid a "designer" friend of his to develop the logo. He is very disappointed with his friend but glad to know the truth. The owner of the restaurant and I are now discussing how we can make this right.
Thanks to all the MSG folks who offered their input, I will let you know how this all unfolds.
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@sweetgirll - No, I do not sell at clipartof. Thanks.
UPDATE: I contacted the business via their Facebook page. The owner responded and was very surprised to see this. He had paid a "designer" friend of his to develop the logo. He is very disappointed with his friend but glad to know the truth. The owner of the restaurant and I are now discussing how we can make this right.
Thanks to all the MSG folks who offered their input, I will let you know how this all unfolds.
Sounds like you guys are off to a good start, which is always great to hear about. :) Good luck!
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I've found some of my works being used as a logo. I sent a notice to the ce@istock asking for action and never had return. This mail is kind of /dev/null.
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I knew that would be the case. Owner uses friend or agency to create a logo, friend then goes on a stock site to search for artwork as a basis to create logo. Friend hands over design with invoice and owner is none the wiser.
This is why it is always necessary to be polite and professional when contacting people regarding these matters and I'm glad you managed to sort it out.
Nice logo btw. daveh900
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@sweetgirll - No, I do not sell at clipartof. Thanks.
UPDATE: I contacted the business via their Facebook page. The owner responded and was very surprised to see this. He had paid a "designer" friend of his to develop the logo. He is very disappointed with his friend but glad to know the truth. The owner of the restaurant and I are now discussing how we can make this right.
Thanks to all the MSG folks who offered their input, I will let you know how this all unfolds.
Well done - you clearly hit the right note when you contacted the restaurateur.
Maybe he'll hire you to design a unique logo for him.
Good news. (Bad for the designer.)
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@sweetgirll - No, I do not sell at clipartof. Thanks.
UPDATE: I contacted the business via their Facebook page. The owner responded and was very surprised to see this. He had paid a "designer" friend of his to develop the logo. He is very disappointed with his friend but glad to know the truth. The owner of the restaurant and I are now discussing how we can make this right.
Thanks to all the MSG folks who offered their input, I will let you know how this all unfolds.
This type of thing is rampant these days as the tools are available to anyone..and anyone with the tools can call themselves a designer. Good to hear they are working with you.
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Please stop about complaining the usage of your images, you will never know where and how your microstock image is used, this is the world of microstock. In the worst scenario , if someone uses an your vector image and he puts a copyright on it, you can be sued too.
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Please stop about complaining the usage of your images, you will never know where and how your microstock image is used, this is the world of microstock. In the worst scenario , if someone uses an your vector image and he puts a copyright on it, you can be sued too.
Ignorance must be bliss :)
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@sweetgirll - No, I do not sell at clipartof. Thanks.
UPDATE: I contacted the business via their Facebook page. The owner responded and was very surprised to see this. He had paid a "designer" friend of his to develop the logo. He is very disappointed with his friend but glad to know the truth. The owner of the restaurant and I are now discussing how we can make this right.
Thanks to all the MSG folks who offered their input, I will let you know how this all unfolds.
This type of thing is rampant these days as the tools are available to anyone..and anyone with the tools can call themselves a designer. Good to hear they are working with you.
I have seen it many times...usually a customer comes to me and shows me what other "designers" have done and it turns out to be clip art. Then they specifically ask me for a custom logo, which is what they thought they were paying for from the previous "designer".
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@sweetgirll - No, I do not sell at clipartof. Thanks.
UPDATE: I contacted the business via their Facebook page. The owner responded and was very surprised to see this. He had paid a "designer" friend of his to develop the logo. He is very disappointed with his friend but glad to know the truth. The owner of the restaurant and I are now discussing how we can make this right.
Thanks to all the MSG folks who offered their input, I will let you know how this all unfolds.
This type of thing is rampant these days as the tools are available to anyone..and anyone with the tools can call themselves a designer. Good to hear they are working with you.
I have seen it many times...usually a customer comes to me and shows me what other "designers" have done and it turns out to be clip art. Then they specifically ask me for a custom logo, which is what they thought they were paying for from the previous "designer".
Are you telling that really exist people paying for a logo?
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In this case, he did know where his image was being used.
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Are you telling that really exist people paying for a logo?
Yep, just finished one for a client. There are a lot of savvy buyers out there that love a stock art image of mine, but want something custom or exclusive. Most of my freelance work now is from walk-ins that saw one of my stock images. It even pays all the bills. It's almost like a real business. ;)
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Are you telling that really exist people paying for a logo?
Yep, just finished one for a client. There are a lot of savvy buyers out there that love a stock art image of mine, but want something custom or exclusive. Most of my freelance work now is from walk-ins that saw one of my stock images. It even pays all the bills. It's almost like a real business. ;)
Oh god, do you think i had to ask for money for the apple logo i did a lot of years ago?
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@sweetgirll - No, I do not sell at clipartof. Thanks.
UPDATE: I contacted the business via their Facebook page. The owner responded and was very surprised to see this. He had paid a "designer" friend of his to develop the logo. He is very disappointed with his friend but glad to know the truth. The owner of the restaurant and I are now discussing how we can make this right.
Thanks to all the MSG folks who offered their input, I will let you know how this all unfolds.
This type of thing is rampant these days as the tools are available to anyone..and anyone with the tools can call themselves a designer. Good to hear they are working with you.
I have seen it many times...usually a customer comes to me and shows me what other "designers" have done and it turns out to be clip art. Then they specifically ask me for a custom logo, which is what they thought they were paying for from the previous "designer".
Are you telling that really exist people paying for a logo?
Of course, I make more money doing freelance work for clients than selling stock. And clients are willing to pay for custom quality work...however every time someone passing themselves off as a designer claims stock content is their own it hurts the design community. It's fine to use stock in designs as long as the client understands...passing it off as original work is not acceptable...but of course it happens.
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Are you telling that really exist people paying for a logo?
Yep, just finished one for a client. There are a lot of savvy buyers out there that love a stock art image of mine, but want something custom or exclusive. Most of my freelance work now is from walk-ins that saw one of my stock images. It even pays all the bills. It's almost like a real business. ;)
Oh god, do you think i had to ask for money for the apple logo i did a lot of years ago?
So how did you create the apple logo then? How did the design take form?
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Are you telling that really exist people paying for a logo?
Yep, just finished one for a client. There are a lot of savvy buyers out there that love a stock art image of mine, but want something custom or exclusive. Most of my freelance work now is from walk-ins that saw one of my stock images. It even pays all the bills. It's almost like a real business. ;)
Oh god, do you think i had to ask for money for the apple logo i did a lot of years ago?
So how did you create the apple logo then? How did the design take form?
A weird guy named Steve Jobs asked me for a nice logo for his new computer brand. We met at breakfast, he wanted a nice logo, something simple but cool. We was eating and when i was biting my apple he said: "Holy crap! i want that apple", i said i had already bitted the apple and there was a lot of apples in the basket. He said the apple is healthy, sweet and an apple at say keeps the doctor away! Everyone wants an apple!
The rest is history..
By the way maybe he didn't eat many apples...
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Are you telling that really exist people paying for a logo?
Yep, just finished one for a client. There are a lot of savvy buyers out there that love a stock art image of mine, but want something custom or exclusive. Most of my freelance work now is from walk-ins that saw one of my stock images. It even pays all the bills. It's almost like a real business. ;)
Oh god, do you think i had to ask for money for the apple logo i did a lot of years ago?
So how did you create the apple logo then? How did the design take form?
A weird guy named Steve Jobs asked me for a nice logo for his new computer brand. We met at breakfast, he wanted a nice logo, something simple but cool. We was eating and when i was biting my apple he said: "Holy crap! i want that apple", i said i had already bitted the apple and there was a lot of apples in the basket. He said the apple is healthy, sweet and an apple at say keeps the doctor away! Everyone wants an apple!
The rest is history..
By the way maybe he didn't eat many apples...
Thats not what I asked. How did you create the logo? How did you design it, what methodology?
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Final Update:
I have been communicating with the owner of the restaurant and we found a good solution.
I'm drafting a quick letter that gives them permission to use this image as their logo (not copyrights, just use of the image).
In return, the owner has donated $100 USD to a charity bicycle ride that I do every year to support the MS Society. Warm fuzzies for all involved (except the so-called "designer" that claimed my work as their own).
Now on to the next one... A food truck in Memphis is using my work as their logo, but even more irritating is the graphic designer that features that work on their portfolio. :o
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What is wrong with people?
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Now on to the next one... A food truck in Memphis is using my work as their logo, but even more irritating is the graphic designer that features that work on their portfolio. :o
That's just sick.