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Author Topic: Video interviews with Lee Torrens and Jonathan Ross from STOCKinRUSSIA'10  (Read 22485 times)

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« on: October 17, 2010, 05:45 »
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Recently there was a microstock event in Russia called STOCKinRUSSIA'10.  Miklav who is also a member here, attended and took a few video interviews so I thought I'd link them here.

Lee Torrens event write-up
Official website

Interview with microstock blogger Lee Torrens (Oct-2010)


Interview with photographer Jonathan Ross (Oct-2010)
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 04:40 by leaf »


Dook

« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2010, 06:10 »
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Thanks!

« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2010, 06:37 »
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It boggles the mind that a "pro" would go to the Russia of all places, and instruct them on how to take away even more of the business already claimed to be lost.  Was it for the opportunity to write off a sight-seeing trip?  Makes no sense to me.

« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2010, 06:54 »
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Interesting what Jonathan Ross said about similars.  I would agree that the sites should be more strict but from my experience the reviewers often reject images that are more unique and sometimes really don't know what they are doing.  Sometimes they accept the images that I am sure are the worst in a batch and reject the best ones.  I would much prefer it if they just removed older content that hasn't sold, reducing the amount of images a buyer has to wade through but giving new images a chance.

« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2010, 09:55 »
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Thank you for posting!

For those interested I put together in my blog post a few bullet points from Jonathan Ross speech: http://miklav.blogspot.com/2010/10/jonathan-ross-in-stock-photography.html

vonkara

« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2010, 11:03 »
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Thanks for telling the Russians about micro, why not giving them hassleblad. I don't see the point, since the Russians and all east European countries, can do business with 3 times less staff expenses and more. They can also earn barely 40% more incomes from microstock due to their low value money...

EDIT: They also have beautiful blonds with great smiles
« Last Edit: October 17, 2010, 11:09 by Vonkara »

Dook

« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2010, 11:37 »
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"Microstock experiment Jonathan made was very successful. Jonathan produced around 3500 photos (meaning final processed portfolio); production cost was around $16 per photo (which is in microstock's standards but rather low for traditional stock). In one year time Jonathan got 200% return, i.e. covered the costs and got 100% profit."
So, he makes around 4700$ (9400$ with costs included)a month ((3500*16)/12)*2. I really don't know why he's sharing these numbers with potential stock photographers in Russia. I think it is misleading and not helping them. Now they think they can do the same, but it is far from the truth. Jonathan has big production, budget and many years of experience. He uploaded great stock portfolio to micros within few months. There is no way newbies can do that.

RT


« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2010, 12:19 »
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So, he makes around 4700$ (9400$ with costs included)a month ((3500*16)/12)*2.

I all fairness I don't think you should start quoting figures like that, a quick look at his portfolio and download numbers shows that he's got nothing like that sort of return.

Dook

« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2010, 12:31 »
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So, he makes around 4700$ (9400$ with costs included)a month ((3500*16)/12)*2.


I all fairness I don't think you should start quoting figures like that, a quick look at his portfolio and download numbers shows that he's got nothing like that sort of return.

I just quoted this link:
http://miklav.blogspot.com/2010/10/jonathan-ross-in-stock-photography.html

RT


« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2010, 13:29 »
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So, he makes around 4700$ (9400$ with costs included)a month ((3500*16)/12)*2.


I all fairness I don't think you should start quoting figures like that, a quick look at his portfolio and download numbers shows that he's got nothing like that sort of return.

I just quoted this link:
http://miklav.blogspot.com/2010/10/jonathan-ross-in-stock-photography.html


Appologies I thought you'd made that figure up, as I said I can't see that he's making anywhere near that return over the period stated, plus some of the other numbers are out, I wonder if the interviewer misinterpreted his replies, maybe JR will come here and clarify it, you certainly couldn't blame any russians for wanting to get involved if they think that's the return.

« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2010, 13:33 »
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Some of the comments made here are amazing :) Sorry to disappoint you but Russians do already know what is microstock and they even know what is Hasselblad ;) And some even use it :D

Russian-speaking photographers represent significant portion of microstock. Some of the very successful microstockers are based in Russia or neighbor countries, such as
- Cimmerian (iStock exclusive)
- paha_l
- elnur
- shironosov (organizer of STOCKinRUSSIA)
- piskunov (iStock exclusive)
- dpaint
- anouchka (iStock exclusive)
(just a few from the top of my head)

So I suppose it gives you a hint why it makes sense to organize such kind of conference in Russia :)

I wonder when something similar will start happening in Poland (or Serbia or another Central European country) - there are many talented and successful microstockers in that area too.

Remark: Just to be precise - the specific numbers about Jonathan's microstock experiment came from CEPIC rather than from his speech in Moscow. As there has been certain overlap of what he was saying in 2 events I combined the bullet points in one blog post.

He made his experiment in 2008 and he was talking about total return over one year. I suspect his monthly figures went down since then as he doesn't contribute to microstock any longer (but he is going to)
« Last Edit: October 17, 2010, 13:37 by MikLav »

Dook

« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2010, 13:38 »
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I have to say again - I really admire Jonathan and his work and his will to share his knowledge with us.
I'm looking forward to similar conference in Serbia! :D

RT


« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2010, 13:58 »
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He made his experiment in 2008 and he was talking about total return over one year. I suspect his monthly figures went down since then as he doesn't contribute to microstock any longer (but he is going to)[/i]

Well in that case maybe you should change this statement on your blog post:

"Microstock experiment Jonathan made was very successful. Jonathan produced around 3500 photos (meaning final processed portfolio); production cost was around $16 per photo (which is in microstock's standards but rather low for traditional stock). In one year time Jonathan got 200% return, i.e. covered the costs and got 100% profit."

You only need to take a quick look at his microstock portfolio to see that in 2008 he had nowhere near 3500 photos in his portfolio on any of the microstock sites (he hasn't got that amount today either!)

Maybe you should have asked him for a direct quote because anybody could easily work out from looking at his portfolio that those figures don't add up, I'm sure you didn't intend to do him an injustice.

« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2010, 14:01 »
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Thanks for producing the interviews MikLav - both very well done.  The thing that caught my attention was the comment from Lee about Superstock... could be an interesting development.

I'm sure those who attended picked up a lot more useful information and contacts than they "gave away". Apart from being home to some very successful contributors, Russia and Eastern Europe are also large emerging markets that create enormous opportunities of their own.

« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2010, 14:15 »
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"So I suppose it gives you a hint why it makes sense to organize such kind of conference "

It makes sense if you're trying to make some quick cash by running workshops.  It doesn't make sense if you're trying to keep your stock business 'sustainable'.

« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2010, 14:26 »
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For those interested I put together in my blog post a few bullet points from Jonathan Ross speech: http://miklav.blogspot.com/2010/10/jonathan-ross-in-stock-photography.html

Thanks for posting the highlights, I don't have any patience to watch those interviews. :)

« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2010, 14:36 »
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You only need to take a quick look at his microstock portfolio to see that in 2008 he had nowhere near 3500 photos in his portfolio on any of the microstock sites (he hasn't got that amount today either!)

Yes he has got that amount :)
Just have a look yourself: http://www.fotolia.com/p/200440429

(not all of 3.5K photos equally accepted by all sites)
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 11:11 by MikLav »


« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2010, 15:59 »
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 Hi All,

 Well what a wonderful friendly place this is ;D I must apologize if a number was off in that interview, I have already doubled my investment of 60k in 2 years not one year. I did produce 3500 images but some are not accepted at some sites or still in line for upload ( istock ) I also did not make one penny from giving this lecture and as the interview said I had 2 hours site seeing at 5 in the morning, it was three days only. I flew 25 hours door to door and went because I was asked to speak at a conference that supported photography.
 I share all my information and I am sorry if your philosophy in life does not meet with mine, not much I can see to fix there. I have offered as much information here at MicrostockGroup as I could and actually learned how to communicate through social networking in a reasonable manor right here about a year and a half ago. That in itself has been a great help for me. When I was first hit here with similar statements made on this post I would have been angry and made a rebuttal that didn't do what I wanted in the first place, to share with others what I know. Over time you have all shown me that everyone has a different approach to life and I have no desire to tell others how to live their lives.
 Russia is full tilt into Micro stock and has been for years. I was shown a great deal of Micro images produced in Russia that matched anything I could produce if not better  so I don't think I have uncovered or shared any information with them that they don't already know. They have production companies producing with several photographers on staff so in some ways I see them ahead of us in some respects.
 The interview is not the presentation itself it was an interview that I was asked to do. At the very beginning of the presentation I clearly explain that  "I make very good returns on my work and please do not expect what I do to work for you, everyone has their own styles ". I follow that statement by saying " everyone is very different and if you can find just one piece of information, a nugget in all I say then I will be pleased ". Do not expect to make what the top money makers in stock are making for some time, I was not out to promote anything but stock photography. I don't think you heard me try to plug my own agency which I think a lot of people interviewed usually do. But even with this presented there is the classic assumptions and expectations made with no research, with the exception of Miclav.
 To also let you know, there are a great deal of people on this site that live in Russia so I think the internet let's anyone with a bit of savvy find the information they need to advance their knowledge in just about any activity.
 If I have offended people here that was not my intention and once again the review was off on one number and that was my fault I won't deny it. My only explanation I can offer is that I had 6 hours sleep and had just finished a photo shoot in a time zone 11 hours different than my own. My apologies for that mistake, the rest is just a difference in life philosophy and sharing with others all you can whenever you can.
 I have returned over $120,000 in two year since my upload of the 3500 with another 2000 to upload at Istock I hope that helps give a base of what my returns are. This is also slightly before 2 years so I can't say till we get to December what my 2 year sales are, I can only share what I have made to this time. In no way is this to brag about returns this is only to clear up what seemed to be unclear.
 I think I have explained it as well as I can but if you have any more questions please don't hesitate to ask.

Best,
Jonathan

« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2010, 17:03 »
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Thanks for the info Jonathan and I am pleased you react the way you do today and not like that New Years Eve :)

For some reason in that video you remind me a bit of the snooker legend Steve Davis.


« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2010, 17:32 »
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Yes, I'm know.  I'm evil.  You can be all humble and philanthropic about it, but if you want to forward photography, why not donate some G12s to a Seattle kids' club and give a few classes instead if flying across the ocean to train your/our competition?  Still makes no sense.  Sorry.

« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2010, 20:52 »
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Hi Sean,

 You shouldn't feel that way about yourself, just different philosophies. Once again let me help clear up your assumptions. I have a scholarship for a new student from the school I graduated at in honor of my teacher who shared the same belief as me when it comes to helping out. My wife and I cover all the cost of the scholarship from our pockets. I mentor High School students on a regular basis ( one a semester ) I give away our used equipment to two different photo schools. I try to spread as much help as I can. Oh yea, I coached kids soccer for 30 years now. I started 16 years before I married and had my own children. As a matter of fact we just got home from the most exciting match of the year. We were down 2-0 and came back to take a 3-2 lead and lost the game in the last 5 minutes with two back to back goals from the other team. It was super fun and all the kids had a great time.
 I don't want to go on to much but here are just a couple other ways I try and help right here in good old America. I have been speaking at Photo East as well as PACA and ASMP conferences and will be speaking at Photo East this year as well. Just so you know those that speak at Photo East this year do it all on their own dime. Photo East does not pay for my flight or my hotel or meals. I do it because I love to share information with those that ask and a big part of this business is meeting people face to face and sharing ideas.
 Do you see a blog that I am pushing or anything of the sort. I did share once on this site about my newest Macro agency out of my excitement and to spread the word because a lot of people were asking at the time " how do I transfer from Micro into Macro " so I was explaining third party agencies as a way to make the change so people can spread their work around for their own safety and in case their were some people here interested in contributing. Our Macro collection has photographers I met right here on this forum so I guess that was the one time I was self promoting to my knowledge. For me it is all about giving and helping each other in every way possible, but that's just me it doesn't make it right or wrong just my choice.
 Actually I would love to start a Blog to share information I just haven't gotten to it so I use this site instead. If I get a blog up I'll be sure to send you a post ;D

P.S. Hi Sharpshoot, Thanks for the support. I love a good game of snooker but I am not very good ;)

Take care,
Jonathan

« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2010, 21:09 »
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just different philosophies./quote]

Yes.

Quote
Once again let me help clear up your assumptions. I have a scholarship for a new student from the school I graduated at in honor of my teacher who shared the same belief as me when it comes to [helping out. My wife and I cover all the cost of the scholarship from our pockets. I mentor High School students on a regular basis ( one a semester ) I give away our used equipment to two different photo schools. I try to spread as much help as I can.

Nice work then, there.

« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2010, 21:43 »
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Thanks Sean,

 I am glad to see us speaking and sharing info even if it is a different approach. I was giving you a little jab there for your last comment at the beginning of my last statement. I understand from many Istockers that you share and help them a great deal so I think we both have our own approaches.

Cheers,
Jonathan

« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2010, 22:58 »
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As a photographer that has had the privilege of hearing Jonathan speak at a couple of different functions as well as watching him at work I can say that the industry is better off with him and his candor.  Who here that has met any level of success in this incredibly competitive and challenging industry has done so without the help or advice of an established pro?  Fake it till ya make it will only get you so far.  I know that I have learned and continue to learn from many photographers including Jonathan and I am incredibly grateful for that opportunity.  I hope to pay it forward some day as well should I reach a level that people feel they could learn from me.

Scoffing at people for sharing information has in my opinion become an antiquated form of mockery that reminds me of middle school bullying.  It is based on insecurity and fear.  There are millions of DSLR's in the hands of millions of people around the world.  If you want to succeed, shoot better than the others.  It's like wedding photographers bitching about Uncle Joe and his 50D shooting away at a wedding...if you can't outshoot Uncle Joe then you shouldn't be getting paid to shoot. 

On a side note, the first time I met Jonathan he was speaking at a photography group meeting somewhere in Downtown Seattle as I recall.  During his talk he was talking about the different ways a photographer can earn a living and touched briefly on an up and coming popular new fad where photographers gave away their images for as little as $1.  He kind of chuckled at the concept a bit then asked if anyone in the room had dabbled in it.  I sheepishly raised my hand and admitted my dirty little secret.  Jonathan pointed and laughed to the point of tears at me then called me an idiot and threw me out of the room.

No, that's not true..actually he was openly curious about it with a touch of skepticism but he heard me out and listened.  That to me was symbolic of a time when the old school (sorry Jonathan..not calling you old... "old school") stock photographers started to dip their toes in the water of micro and the microstock industry truly began to evolve into what it is today.  Without bad ass, experienced photographers contributing to micro, the quality of images would be too thinly found and we wouldn't find the success we have today.  I say bring on more awesome photography.  I'll continue to learn and hopefully improve and the buyers will continue to find their way to the micros.

Mat

RT


« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2010, 04:32 »
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Jonathan,

Thank you for coming here to clear that point up, it was very easy for me (and I suspect anyone else who's been doing this for a while) to see that the figures quoted were wrong, and I owe miklav an appology as I assumed he'd got the figures wrong when in fact he got those figures from your cepic speech,  it's interesting to see that your philosophy is one of helping others rather than self promotion, my point is and always has been that giving information with the view of helping others is only beneficial if that information is accurate, it may only be 'one number' and I appreciate that you may put that down to a lack of sleep but that one number is very significant when it is the difference of 1 or 2 years, it then throws your comment of having "doubled" your investment over the period of "one year" out of the window, in this case it goes from a 60k profit to a 30k profit which I think in anybodies book is an important difference, especially if they are taking working capital into account.

People can draw their own conclusions as to whether your microstock experiment is successful or not, and you'll always have your fan club, but in the realm of 'helping' others to make that decision I suggest it would be better if the information you've decided to share was accurate.

Your correction in this thread has helped me make my own decision as to whether your experiment of uploading those type and quantity of images to microstock was successful, thanks for sharing.

« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2010, 05:01 »
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Scoffing at people for sharing information has in my opinion become an antiquated form of mockery that reminds me of middle school bullying.  It is based on insecurity and fear.  There are millions of DSLR's in the hands of millions of people around the world.  If you want to succeed, shoot better than the others.  It's like wedding photographers bitching about Uncle Joe and his 50D shooting away at a wedding...if you can't outshoot Uncle Joe then you shouldn't be getting paid to shoot. 

Well, whatever.  I'll still stand by my conviction that it isn't a particularly good way to keep your business sustainable, going out and training large groups of people who want to take away your sales.  That kind of  "giving back" to people you don't know, and who never really "gave" to you doesn't make sense.

« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2010, 06:22 »
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Through the last 100+ years top photography professionals kept coaching and teaching photography the younger generations. This has always been the nature of photography. This is also natural for many other artistic professions.

I don't see why such successful photographer like Sean would need to worry about teaching the "competitors". Vast majority of them will remain far below your level. A few talented ones might reach your level or exceed it - but if they are talented and hardworking they would get there anyway. If I had a chance to help some one talented to grow his talent I would be proud of that rather than worried.


« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2010, 06:47 »
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Thanks to Lee Torrens, Jonathan Ross and Miklav, always much appreciated.
If there would be no sharing - there would be no internet, free knowledge, tutorials, free applications  and many other things except stupid patents and monopolies.
Waiting for more
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 07:07 by plrang »

« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2010, 06:59 »
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Through the last 100+ years top photography professionals kept coaching and teaching photography the younger generations. This has always been the nature of photography. This is also natural for many other artistic professions.

Selling "stock" to the world via the internet where everyone is everyone else's instant competitor has only been around about 10 years.

Quote
I don't see why such successful photographer like Sean would need to worry about teaching the "competitors". Vast majority of  them will remain far below your level. A few talented ones might reach your level or exceed it - but if they are talented and hardworking they would get there anyway. If I had a chance to help some one talented to grow his talent I would be proud of that rather than worried.

I'm proud that I can pay my bills with my work.  I don't need to train people so I can eventually not be able to pay my bills to put a smile on my face.

Like I said, I know I'm evil that I don't want Russian photographers to put food on their table - lol...
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 07:15 by sjlocke »

« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2010, 09:01 »
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 Hi All,

 When you offer information to the masses you always open yourself up for others to criticize. I am aware of this and it is okay with me that people do so if that helps out others on their quest for knowledge. I try not to criticize others as much as I can and I look for any information that is offered that can help me excel but that once again is just my way of seeing things, it doesn't make it right or wrong. If any of you will be near a conference that is offering information about your field of interest I would suggest to give it a try. You might only come away with one piece of new information but to me that is how you improve and stay educated in general.

Good Luck all,
Jonathan

« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2010, 09:38 »
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Hi RT,

  I did make the mistake in CEPIC and I wasn't aware of it. Time passes so fast I must work at being more accurate but I believe what I have shared over the years makes up for that one miscommunication and I will always try to improve my speaking and sharing of knowledge. CEPIC is a conference of just stock agencies owners not Micro stockers so hopefully the ears it fell on were not effected to much by my one mistake. I am human and capable of saying something out of context I think you see rebuttals in periodicals and television all the time from some of our leading information specialists so I don't think I am in a crowd by myself. Just to clarify this has been a good lesson once again for me here as it has made it even more clear that I must be playing my A game when sharing information no matter who the audience. I am glad it has all been cleared up here. If Miklav could change that mistake of mine on his blog maybe we can halt that one piece of information from spreading any further. You never know I might even have made the same mistake or another one when speaking in Russia but we'll have to wait and see, I hope that is not the case.

Jonathan

« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2010, 10:04 »
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If Miklav could change that mistake of mine on his blog maybe we can halt that one piece of information from spreading any further.
Hi Jonathan and all - no problem I made a correction in my blog.

« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2010, 10:11 »
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Thanks Miklav,

 I appreciate all your support and your new mike has some great sound. I thought you did a great job. My hat is off to you and I hope to see you soon. Will you be at Photo East in N.Y. this month? If so please look me up for a cup of coffee and a good chat.

Best,
Jonathan

« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2010, 10:18 »
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 I know this has gone on a bit to long considering the topic but I want to thank Mat Hayward for such a supportive and kind post. It has been a long time since we have spoken and if you have the time please drop me a PM so we can catch up. If you ever need anything I can help with you know I am there. Once again thank you for speaking out, it takes a lot to put yourself out there like that.

Best,
Jonathan

RT


« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2010, 13:42 »
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Hi RT,

  I did make the mistake in CEPIC and I wasn't aware of it. Time passes so fast I must work at being more accurate but I believe what I have shared over the years makes up for that one miscommunication and I will always try to improve my speaking and sharing of knowledge. CEPIC is a conference of just stock agencies owners not Micro stockers so hopefully the ears it fell on were not effected to much by my one mistake. I am human and capable of saying something out of context I think you see rebuttals in periodicals and television all the time from some of our leading information specialists so I don't think I am in a crowd by myself. Just to clarify this has been a good lesson once again for me here as it has made it even more clear that I must be playing my A game when sharing information no matter who the audience. I am glad it has all been cleared up here. If Miklav could change that mistake of mine on his blog maybe we can halt that one piece of information from spreading any further. You never know I might even have made the same mistake or another one when speaking in Russia but we'll have to wait and see, I hope that is not the case.

Jonathan

No problem we all make mistakes, my initial thoughts were that someone else had misinterpreted your information and as a result my concern was that hundreds of innocent folk would be diving for their cameras in order to reap the benefits of this gold mine  ;)

« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2010, 16:30 »
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Hi RT,

 Thanks for the post. It means a lot to hear that from you. Keep shooting, or digging in the gold mine  :)

Cheers,
Jonathan

« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2010, 20:10 »
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Oh my God.

I have no words!!

Maybe we should make a conference in New York about Russian part on micro?))

And also i don`t understand, why some people are so negative to Russia and people who help us to get success?
I think Jonathan is Great Guy who making a big thing that sharing his info and experience with others. Are you jealous about he is sharing his info with us (Russians)? 

I thought that times when we have a big challenge with other countries for producing milk, weapon and photo are gone!!

Just kidding)) Don`t want to hurt anyone, but i think that no one should say and write such offensive words about great people))

Thank You.

By the way - Jonathan is very Cheerful and kind person - i have a lot of inspiration and positive emotions since we were talking in hall of Holiday Inn Moscow Sokolniki)) I wish to our planet to have a lot of guys like Jonathan and Lee Torrens))


« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2010, 20:35 »
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I have no words!!

Apparently you did. ;)

« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2010, 03:56 »
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It boggles the mind that a "pro" would go to the Russia of all places, and instruct them on how to take away even more of the business already claimed to be lost.  Was it for the opportunity to write off a sight-seeing trip?  Makes no sense to me.
Sean,
This may come as a surprise to you, but shouldn't really. Russian microstock community is the most active community in the internet, much more active than english-speaking communiuty despite English being the language of internet, and specifically, microstock. There are three internet forums which are more popular than this english-speaking forum.

You shouldn't really worry about new competition emerging in Russia after Jonathan's visit (after all, you have a great portfolio). Microstock is not about attending one master-class, and you know it. There are already enough of microstock heavy-weights in Russia (or rather former Sovier Union).

Yes, it is competitive market, we all compete against each other. But I prefer to fight competition by making myself stronger, and not by weakening the competitors (or depriving them of growth). I would respect myself more if I lose to a stronger competition, than being a leader among the weak. For the last 4 years, I have been very active contributor to microstock forums, openly sharing my knowledge and how I organise my workflow. Yes, I did educate a lot of my competitors, but then that kept me in constant search for even better and more efficient ways to run my microstock hobby/business. I will share those, and will continue to improve my work. In the long run, I will improve more than any of my competitors.

I really enjoyed meeting Johnatan in Moscow, and with his tacit permission I would quote him here (loosely) "Sharing knowledge is good, because it makes you learn something new to share" . Well said!!


One other point.... There is a persistent myth among western microstockers than doing business in this part of the world is easier or cheaper. This is not true at all. If I look into my workflow and cost of living, there is only one aspect which will be more expensive say, in States, than in Azerbaijan (where I live) - that will be professional model hire (which I don't do anyway). Other expenses, and cost of living are higher.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2010, 03:59 by Elnur »

« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2010, 04:04 »
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Yes, it is competitive market, we all compete against each other. But I prefer to fight competition by making myself stronger, and not by weakening the competitors (or depriving them of growth). I would respect myself more if I lose to a stronger competition, than being a leader among the weak.

Unbelievably, apparently, you can both grow your own skills and business, and be concerned about the growth of competition from the "most active community in the internet", among other things.  I'd respect myself more if I can keep paying my mortgage - keeping an eye on the threat of competition is just a part of that.

« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2010, 00:31 »
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My 2$
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jplxtRW5GX8[/youtube][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j4iCvbh5k4[/youtube]
Thanks, Lee and Jonathan.

lagereek

« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2010, 01:03 »
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Russia is a great market!  Ive sold loads of RM-shots to Russian industrial corps. Now I expect Jonathan to go there and drum up some business for all of us, He can be our Ambassador and agent.
Thanks for sharing!

Sean, I can see your point but then again, look at the industry, everyone in the world is all of a sudden a photographer, now weather its Russia, china or India, I dont think it matters anymore.

best.

« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2010, 01:27 »
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Yes, it is competitive market, we all compete against each other. But I prefer to fight competition by making myself stronger, and not by weakening the competitors (or depriving them of growth). I would respect myself more if I lose to a stronger competition, than being a leader among the weak.

Unbelievably, apparently, you can both grow your own skills and business, and be concerned about the growth of competition from the "most active community in the internet", among other things.  I'd respect myself more if I can keep paying my mortgage - keeping an eye on the threat of competition is just a part of that.

If you were the only competent photographer on I-Stock how successful do you feel the site would be? 

lagereek

« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2010, 02:42 »
0
Competition among ourselves is not the biggest threat!  that can be dealt with.  The Agencies themselves, destructive takeovers, internal-politics problems, even useless reviewing is unfortunately our biggest enemy and thats beyond our control, so we just have to string along.
During the past year i think we have seen massive proof of that.

Xalanx

« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2010, 03:13 »
0
Competition among ourselves is not the biggest threat!  that can be dealt with.  The Agencies themselves, destructive takeovers, internal-politics problems, even useless reviewing is unfortunately our biggest enemy and thats beyond our control

That's absolutely and undeniably correct! I can add to this absurd changes to search engines algorithms too.

« Reply #45 on: October 21, 2010, 04:43 »
0
Sean, I can see your point but then again, look at the industry, everyone in the world is all of a sudden a photographer, now weather its Russia, china or India, I dont think it matters anymore.

Sorry, I didn't mean to be specific to Russia.  As you know, I've had this thought in the past about such things anywheres.  Of course, we have discussed many times here that that area of the world is especially prone to both copyright violations and outright copying.

lagereek

« Reply #46 on: October 21, 2010, 08:45 »
0
Sean, I can see your point but then again, look at the industry, everyone in the world is all of a sudden a photographer, now weather its Russia, china or India, I dont think it matters anymore.

Sorry, I didn't mean to be specific to Russia.  As you know, I've had this thought in the past about such things anywheres.  Of course, we have discussed many times here that that area of the world is especially prone to both copyright violations and outright copying.

Absoloutely true!!  Ive been chasing invoice payments there for 2 years. I wont get paid, thats it.


« Reply #47 on: October 21, 2010, 10:52 »
0
 There is one thing I would like to pass credit onto. Sean is one of the few outspoken people here that actually shows us who his identity is. For that his information carries a lot more power for me than many on this site.

2 cents
Jonathan

« Reply #48 on: October 21, 2010, 11:47 »
0
While I don't necessarily agree it is advantageous to the collective whole to produce educational information which propagates and increases competition; in an fiercely competitive market that is becoming more so every day.

I must say I am really tickled about the response to offering that educational help to Russia/Russians. Some of the most talented and prolific artist in micro are Russian and they have been working in micro from the start. They could teach most of us a great deal.

On another note artist who are talented can easily earn a decent living from micro in countries where the cost of living is lower.  I expect to see more and more of the most talented among us cropping up or migrating to countries where living expenses are not prohibitive.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2010, 11:51 by gbalex »

vonkara

« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2010, 12:02 »
0
^ They also earn almost the double from the same american dollar. Back a couple years ago, the american dollar was like gold in Russia. People were exchanging them like it was a stock market currency, following the USD fluctuation everyday.

The people from east Europe but also from some Asian countries, are able to keep shooting receiving 35 cents a picture. I don't think it's the case for the for most of the occidental people, counting on microstock for mortage and more...

Microbius

« Reply #50 on: October 22, 2010, 05:26 »
0
I'm proud that I can pay my bills with my work.  I don't need to train people so I can eventually not be able to pay my bills to put a smile on my face.

Like I said, I know I'm evil that I don't want Russian photographers to put food on their table - lol...

I think there is a misunderstanding about what is going on here.
There is no altruism going on here.
Lee makes most of his living not from selling on micro directly but as a facilitator, referring others, from ads on MD and other indirect routes. The more marketing he can do the more he makes.
With Jonathan he is building his brand in micro and doing a very good job of it. It may be hurting the rest of us but the good it does him getting his name known and out there is far greater then the damage he personally receives from letting in more competition. It makes good business sense.
It's something like the "tragedy of the commons", the good of the action is to the individual while the cost is spread over the whole community.
Getting one more person into the market damages everyone's income by a tiny fraction of a cent, while the one who actually gets the referral or the publicity gains far more than this. It always makes sense selfishly to make the referral, because you can't stop others doing it and the result of that single referral is net gain for you; the nail in the coffin of all submitters from that one referral is tiny.
It's only when you add up all the fractions you end up with a cluster f*ck.
C'est la vie
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 05:33 by Microbius »

« Reply #51 on: October 22, 2010, 06:19 »
0
^
Indeed, as in many apparent acts of folly, follow the money.

« Reply #52 on: October 22, 2010, 07:32 »
0
I think there is a misunderstanding about what is going on here.

I'm not misunderstanding ;) .  Only thing is, when you "brand" yourself to photographers, all you get is a bunch of photographer fans.

« Reply #53 on: October 22, 2010, 09:57 »
0
I think there is a misunderstanding about what is going on here.


I'm not misunderstanding ;)Only thing is, when you "brand" yourself to photographers, all you get is a bunch of photographer fans.


I am sure that you are aware that Jonathan is one of co-founders of Blend Images and the newly formed http://www.spacesimages.com

Most photographers I know who routinely go to lengths to share incentive financial or educational info are involved in; for pay workshops, per click info site, selling books or training materials or they own or are heavily affiliated with stock agencies which will benefit from fostering new talent .

They stand to gain from sharing information that will not be beneficial to their fellows and some of them make far more holding workshops and such than they ever would shooting.

Microbius

« Reply #54 on: October 22, 2010, 10:39 »
0
I think there is a misunderstanding about what is going on here.


I'm not misunderstanding ;)Only thing is, when you "brand" yourself to photographers, all you get is a bunch of photographer fans.


I am sure that you are aware that Jonathan is one of co-founders of Blend Images and the newly formed http://www.spacesimages.com

Most photographers I know who routinely go to lengths to share incentive financial or educational info are involved in; for pay workshops, per click info site, selling books or training materials or they own or are heavily affiliated with stock agencies which will benefit from fostering new talent .

They stand to gain from sharing information that will not be beneficial to their fellows and some of them make far more holding workshops and such than they ever would shooting.

Most, or all?  ;)
@ Sean, yeah photographer fans paying for lessons, or to hear you speak, or giving you referral earnings, or signing up to your image library, or clicking your ads on your blog, or throwing your name around as a "guru" to potential buyers, or buying your books etc. etc. etc.

« Reply #55 on: October 22, 2010, 12:27 »
0
Hi Microbus,

 Thank you for the explanation and support. Just to make it clear to everyone I did not make any form of monetary reward or otherwise for presenting in Russia, just like I will not receive any form of profit not even the airfare or hotel, for the upcoming PhotPlus panel I am on next week in N.Y. For me it is about meeting new people in the business. I am really not trying to even build a following I just want to educate people in the field I am in and rub shoulders with the agencies and people at the top to advance my agency and the others I am owner in. It is an important part of building an agency to speak directly with those you have only been e-mailing, it strengthens the relationship and the spoken word is so much clearer than e-mails.
 If and when I want to start building a Micro following I will probably produce a Blog, right now it's just about sharing and meeting influential people in the industry.

Thanks,
Jonathan
« Last Edit: October 22, 2010, 13:02 by Jonathan Ross »

Microbius

« Reply #56 on: October 22, 2010, 15:17 »
0
It's a good policy. I wish you all the best. You have clearly got the skills to back it.


« Reply #57 on: October 27, 2010, 09:27 »
0
While I don't necessarily agree it is advantageous to the collective whole to produce educational information which propagates and increases competition; in an fiercely competitive market that is becoming more so every day.

I must say I am really tickled about the response to offering that educational help to Russia/Russians. Some of the most talented and prolific artist in micro are Russian and they have been working in micro from the start. They could teach most of us a great deal.

On another note artist who are talented can easily earn a decent living from micro in countries where the cost of living is lower.  I expect to see more and more of the most talented among us cropping up or migrating to countries where living expenses are not prohibitive.

Why do you think, Russia is more cheeper place for a living?
For example food and clothes costs much more expensive in Russia then in Spain!! Really much more expensive)) And also we still have here a lot of speculators who make their living on newbies.

For example - this conference StockinRussia with Lee and Jonathan was about 9000rub or 300$ - this is good price!! It was very useful and interesting)) But we also have a lot of courses which costs about 400-500$ from photographers who earn 100-300$ monthly from Micro without any interesting persons like Lee and Jonathan! Also funny is that they giving information which you can find with help of google for free)) No extra info or something really useful.

so i don`t think that Russia is very cheep place for a living. We have really bad transportation costs system. In europe you must pay one time for 2 hours of bus or subway.. But in Russia you must pay about 1$ for subway even if you are going on next station!! and about ,5 or ,7$ for bus.
So if you need to move one station on subway and then one or two stations on bus you`ll pay 1,5$ or more.. i think it is not so cheap)) And so on and so on))

« Reply #58 on: October 27, 2010, 09:31 »
0
Hi Microbus,

 Thank you for the explanation and support. Just to make it clear to everyone I did not make any form of monetary reward or otherwise for presenting in Russia, just like I will not receive any form of profit not even the airfare or hotel, for the upcoming PhotPlus panel I am on next week in N.Y. For me it is about meeting new people in the business. I am really not trying to even build a following I just want to educate people in the field I am in and rub shoulders with the agencies and people at the top to advance my agency and the others I am owner in. It is an important part of building an agency to speak directly with those you have only been e-mailing, it strengthens the relationship and the spoken word is so much clearer than e-mails.
 If and when I want to start building a Micro following I will probably produce a Blog, right now it's just about sharing and meeting influential people in the industry.

Thanks,
Jonathan

Much thank you, Jonathan again and again - it is a big deal))

« Reply #59 on: October 27, 2010, 12:57 »
0
They can also earn barely 40% more incomes from microstock due to their low value money...
Maybe 20 years ago. Moscow is amongst the most expensive cities in the world right now.

« Reply #60 on: October 27, 2010, 14:17 »
0
While I don't necessarily agree it is advantageous to the collective whole to produce educational information which propagates and increases competition; in an fiercely competitive market that is becoming more so every day.

I must say I am really tickled about the response to offering that educational help to Russia/Russians. Some of the most talented and prolific artist in micro are Russian and they have been working in micro from the start. They could teach most of us a great deal.

On another note artist who are talented can easily earn a decent living from micro in countries where the cost of living is lower.  I expect to see more and more of the most talented among us cropping up or migrating to countries where living expenses are not prohibitive.

Why do you think, Russia is more cheaper place for a living?
For example food and clothes costs much more expensive in Russia then in Spain!! Really much more expensive)) And also we still have here a lot of speculators who make their living on newbies.

For example - this conference StockinRussia with Lee and Jonathan was about 9000rub or 300$ - this is good price!! It was very useful and interesting)) But we also have a lot of courses which costs about 400-500$ from photographers who earn 100-300$ monthly from Micro without any interesting persons like Lee and Jonathan! Also funny is that they giving information which you can find with help of google for free)) No extra info or something really useful.

so i don`t think that Russia is very cheep place for a living. We have really bad transportation costs system. In europe you must pay one time for 2 hours of bus or subway.. But in Russia you must pay about 1$ for subway even if you are going on next station!! and about ,5 or ,7$ for bus.
So if you need to move one station on subway and then one or two stations on bus you`ll pay 1,5$ or more.. i think it is not so cheap)) And so on and so on))

You misunderstand me, I do not think and did not say Russia is a cheap place to live, in any case it is all relative to where you live now.  The point I was attempting to make is that royalty rates have dropped to the point that we will see (it is already happening) photographers move to countries with very low living expenses and good internet access so that they can continue to make a living shooting stock and I expect some of the people who will be moving to those counties to be Russian.

And yes the predatory speculators are disgusting.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2010, 14:22 by gbalex »

Dook

« Reply #61 on: October 27, 2010, 14:24 »
0
Your theory of people migrations is so unrealistic.  ???

« Reply #62 on: October 27, 2010, 14:30 »
0
Your theory of people migrations is so unrealistic.  ???

Really, I have at least 6 friends who have already moved and I am considering it myself.

Dook

« Reply #63 on: October 27, 2010, 14:40 »
0
Sorry, but I'm just not the type that likes to travel. Maybe that's why I can't understand it. There are two British photographers here in Bosnia, but they married local girls during the war and stayed here. Now they enjoy the benefits of lower costs doing stock, in fact. Where did your friends go?

vonkara

« Reply #64 on: October 27, 2010, 15:29 »
0
They can also earn barely 40% more incomes from microstock due to their low value money...
Maybe 20 years ago. Moscow is amongst the most expensive cities in the world right now.

Yea right, I just see the prices. About 50 000 roubles each month for a 3 rooms apartment. If you don't live in Moscow or St-Petersburg it might be worth it though, they still get 30 roubles for each american dollar

« Reply #65 on: October 27, 2010, 16:20 »
0
They can also earn barely 40% more incomes from microstock due to their low value money...
Maybe 20 years ago. Moscow is amongst the most expensive cities in the world right now.

Yea right, I just see the prices. About 50 000 roubles each month for a 3 rooms apartment. If you don't live in Moscow or St-Petersburg it might be worth it though, they still get 30 roubles for each american dollar

Is that cheap or expensive? How much is the heating?

vonkara

« Reply #66 on: October 27, 2010, 20:18 »
0
They can also earn barely 40% more incomes from microstock due to their low value money...
Maybe 20 years ago. Moscow is amongst the most expensive cities in the world right now.

Yea right, I just see the prices. About 50 000 roubles each month for a 3 rooms apartment. If you don't live in Moscow or St-Petersburg it might be worth it though, they still get 30 roubles for each american dollar

Is that cheap or expensive? How much is the heating?

It's quite expensive to me. A 3 or 4 rooms apartment here in Montreal is about 800$ a month or 24 000 roubles.


« Reply #67 on: October 27, 2010, 20:55 »
0
I don't care how much a hamburger costs in Moscow. The point is, as usual, training your competition is a silly thing to do, regardless of how chipper it makes you feel.

« Reply #68 on: October 31, 2010, 22:23 »
0
I don't care how much a hamburger costs in Moscow. The point is, as usual, training your competition is a silly thing to do, regardless of how chipper it makes you feel.

Competition always means higher quality so keep shooting and stop wasting your time here speaking about russian competitors)) Make a deal))


 

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