Right... I am 20 months in microstock now... Speaking about SS, my port is 1200 pictures now , and used to have about 40-60 dwnls in average (84 max), I have just 20-30 now... Very bad time. However, january was very tricky last year and picked up just in the end... But even with 1/2 port I had bigger sales than now. BAD...

I used to be over 100 a day now 50-80. I think things will stay this way or perhaps get worse. Not trying to be negative just calling it as I see it. In the future you will have to work twice as hard to make the same money you are making today. It is what it is. The days of 10-20 downloads on the first day an image goes live(shutterstock) are gone or very rare.  I couldn't imagine starting fresh right now, I would quickly become discouraged.

Is there anyone that has been at this for while seeing huge growth right now without seriously busting their behinds?

I'm still having a blast and wouldn't trade it for anything just need to get used to the new terms.

...
I'm still having a blast and wouldn't trade it for anything just need to get used to the new terms.

Ditto.

I am four years doing this and have four thousand plus images.  I definitely see some softening of sales. 

Maybe 15-20% off of where I would have expected the sales to be at this point.  Will have to wait until the end of the month to calculate exact %, but the economy is surely having some effect, along with the long weekend and the slow start after the holidays.   

Also with 4 years on microstock and I'd agree with everything Lisa says.

SS has definitely been disappointing of late and I am projecting January to be the 4th consecutive month of falling sales there. I get the impression that they may have lost a few long term subscribers which could explain why new images aren't getting as much initial boost. Some of their subscribers must have HD's with thousands of images on them so they can probably use what they have for now.

IS, DT, FT and StockXpert are doing OK though and my overall projection for January, based on last week's sales, is still 30% higher than Jan 2008. That's roughly in line with the increase in my port over the last year.

what do you mean by that:

Quote

I'm still having a blast and wouldn't trade it for anything

?

That means I love this job and the freedom that comes with it  

I prefer not having to rely on my income from SS so much.

and maybe that's the point

This is the problem: "5,660,112 photos available for download, 69,570 new photos added in the past week".

The number of images submitted by photographers every week far exceeds the growth in the number of images downloaded by buyers.  Despite constant uploading of new images your portfolio will comprise an ever smaller percentage of what is available to buyers on SS.

This is the problem: "5,660,112 photos available for download, 69,570 new photos added in the past week".

The number of images submitted by photographers every week far exceeds the growth in the number of images downloaded by buyers.  Despite constant uploading of new images your portfolio will comprise an ever smaller percentage of what is available to buyers on SS.

i don't do microstock but i would say this it is, combined with the mentality "i love it and i would not give it up for anything!"  i think another reason that the market is sooo flooded is that there is a invite all sorta thought process.  i see the same thing in wedding photography.  all the tips and tricks are soo easily traded on blogs, forums and other media that it is a shoot yourself in the foot way to go.

Quote from: jayreilly on January 21, 2009, 09:01

  all the tips and tricks are soo easily traded on blogs, forums and other media that it is a shoot yourself in the foot way to go.

This is what I think is the biggest downfall in microstock, I know some people feel the urge to share their knowledge but generally speaking in the end it helps others to take away their income.

By the way Jay how's the blog coming along

hey RT - my blog is defiantly just on the verge of giving away and sharing and giving just little enough insight.  i like to share, create community yet, i gotta keep some secrets to myself! 

and with a tongue and cheek name, i think its fitting!

http://www.mycameraisbiggerthanyours.com

hey RT - my blog is defiantly just on the verge of giving away and sharing and giving just little enough insight.  i like to share, create community yet, i gotta keep some secrets to myself! 

and with a tongue and cheek name, i think its fitting!

http://www.mycameraisbiggerthanyours.com

Jay,

I like your blog it shows photo's of sunny fun places which we don't see much in the UK, but you do realise the name means you're going to have to shell out on a Hassy 50 otherwise everyone will laugh at you 
If you do get one let me know and I'll buy the domain - iwishmycamerawasasbigasyours.com

ha, i am looking at a hasselblad right now, but not the largest, looking at the older h3s, i think the 30 megapixel...just can timagine ever needing much more!

They've been advertising discounts for the 31 and 39 over here, still way too much for me, I agree about 30 being plenty, I'm interested to see what the Leica 32mp is like when it gets launched, still won't be able to afford one though.

Hi,
I am asking more experienced contributors with portfolios over 1000 and more than 1 year on stocks - how are your sales recently and how you consider your future on stock ?
Personally I have portfolio over 1500 and have been in this business over 2,5 years.
Speaking about SS for instance - I have been always avaraging about 80 dls a day (even over 150 sometimes). Now it's about 30-40. Of course I am uploading new stuff, however there is no  such a 'boom' on them as it was even couples  months ago.
Having on mind that there are more and photographers, competition is extremely high, I am getting a little bit discouraged. May this business still be profitable?

you could retrain as a bricklayer or a ballet dancer.Driving a big red bus or taxi driving might earn you some income besides photography.Anyhow i hope you don't starve!

Quote from: niserin on January 19, 2009, 13:02

Hi,
I am asking more experienced contributors with portfolios over 1000 and more than 1 year on stocks - how are your sales recently and how you consider your future on stock ?
Personally I have portfolio over 1500 and have been in this business over 2,5 years.
Speaking about SS for instance - I have been always avaraging about 80 dls a day (even over 150 sometimes). Now it's about 30-40. Of course I am uploading new stuff, however there is no  such a 'boom' on them as it was even couples  months ago.
Having on mind that there are more and photographers, competition is extremely high, I am getting a little bit discouraged. May this business still be profitable?

you could retrain as a bricklayer or a ballet dancer.Driving a big red bus or taxi driving might earn you some income besides photography.Anyhow i hope you don't starve!

If I were not 19 years old and was not studying for the first year it may be quite a smart idea

I blame sagging sales on three things:

First: the economy
Second: sub sales. Once a buyer has 20-30,000 images saved. How many more would they need?
Third: Everyone with a camera in the world is entering stock. If everyone is selling them who is left to buy them?

Oh ... one more thing. No images on any site should be sold for less than $10.00 per dl. If every micro site raised their prices to that amount .... they would still sell and photographers would make money.

Right now if you really want to make money in photography .... shoot weddings! I retired years ago from shooting weddings and in my best years made over $250,000.00 per year after paying my helpers. (Helpers: 5 freelance photographers.)

Nuff said.

-Larry

are these the same people that have just shared their money making tips with others?

What are you saying? ! ?

Uh, that was sarcasm.  I think I know what he's pointing out.

Having on mind that there are more and photographers, competition is extremely high, I am getting a little bit discouraged. May this business still be profitable?

Not really unless you'll become a volume shooter repeating the best selling concepts of others. You won't see those people a lot on forums, since they are just lurking. The Alexa traffic of this site, the MSG, for instance is very high, much higher than you can expect from the number of posts. The participants that share their knowledge (here, but also on site forums) and ports are the very social and friendly tip of the iceberg. The vast majority is just leeching. When they appear now and then (here), they won't show any port links nor use the same nick as on the sites.
The SS forum is a vast source of info too. "Show me your best seller", and yahoo, the friendly naive people put their bestsellers up there. Or they brag how much they get. It's very simple then to surf to their port, rank it by popularity, and see what can be reshot easily. Bragging makes you feel fine, but flying under the radar and leeching makes you rich.

Those volume shooters/copycats take notes, download comps, make a storyboard for their next shoot, and there goes your original successful concept down the drains. Three months later, you will see your original concept drowned in similars, especially on SS. I had it 2-3 times that a very good selling original concept disappeared after a while, and when looking for my keywords, I found 20 even 50 similars done later. In a few cases even with almost exactly the same keywords.

If they work hard and methodically, after 1-2 years, they have a port of over 5,000 with best selling concepts of others and an income that matches it. The individual photographer that just shoots for the love of photography and being creative and original once in a while could make it back in 2005 or 2006, but not any more. Especially SS is bad in that respect since your "populars" are heavily biased by the newest ones. Once a volume shooter tagged you, it's very easy to catch your recent best sellers and copy them early. That's much more difficult on DT since the most populars there are of all-time and take more time to find out.

I had a post ready yesterday at SS, in which I wanted to include a very promising concept that I didn't find on DT and on SS, so it was new. But I canceled my post in time, or I'm sure the lurkers would be there with the same stuff in a few weeks, since it's so easy to do. Unless you see it as a fulfilling hobby that delivers some candies now and then, to be successful as a stocker businesswise, you'll have to go for volume fast and copy till you drop.

Where are prices going down?  On shutterstock we have seen prices go up every year, On dreamstime on the stats page, i can see my $/download average going up every month since they started.  Istock raised their prices a few as have most of the other sites.

There are a few exceptions however, which the addition of subscriptions on a couple sites, but overall I think prices have been increasing.

That said, yes I have noticed a somewhat reduced sales level this month.  It is hard to tell if it is recession, just seasonal ebb and flow, or competition.

Don't get me wrong I believe in helping the less fortunate, I just don't believe in helping them make me less fortunate.

There is no shortage in the universe unless you think there is. 

Quote from: FlemishDreams on January 22, 2009, 02:41

The vast majority is just leeching.

I'm glad people are starting to finally see this.  This is why I don't do that many 3d renders anymore.  Too easy to copy.  For instance:
My image:


Jerk copier:

Wow. I'd report that as fraud. Seriously - something like that is just as bad as stealing an image.

Don't get me wrong I believe in helping the less fortunate, I just don't believe in helping them make me less fortunate.

As for riding the 'crest of the wave' the forums across most sites are littered with threads by people moaning about the decrease in their sales, are these the same people that have just shared their money making tips with others?

These forums are about  sharing information and therefore helping one and other. The degree to which this happens is open to debate but it surely happens. What goes around, comes around.

As for riding the 'crest of the wave' the forums across most sites are littered with threads by people moaning about the decrease in their sales, are these the same people that have just shared their money making tips with others?

You may have hit on something here Richard.  Perhaps they are sharing false tips in an attempt to mislead the unsuspecting newbs astray...? 

You may have hit on something here Richard.  Perhaps they are sharing false tips in an attempt to mislead the unsuspecting newbs astray...? 

I think you're giving them more credit than they're due, some of the 'tip sharers' on SS aren't that clever.

I'm glad people are starting to finally see this.  This is why I don't do that many 3d renders anymore.  Too easy to copy.  For instance:
My image:

Your example is obvious and according to the PACA rules, it would certainly be called a derivatory work (the kids in the car) since it's the same concept colors, and almost the same angle. It's also not a "faut faire", like the girl with headset.
At SS certainly, it's becoming a method, a system and nobody wants to litigate for 33c x X.

The only defense is to do concepts that are not that easy to copy. Renders are. My best sellers for over a year on SS still is a set of waterfalls deep in the jungle you need a motorbike for, and it's also not easy to find beautiful Nordic models for the Yuri Arcurs copiers.

Ok here goes false tip #1: dirty toilets sell like hell! 

Ok here goes false tip #1: dirty toilets sell like hell! 

LOL!  Love that one! 

Although of course I didn't take it, here's the Worst Toilet in Scotland (from one of my favorite movies of all time):

Well said RacePhoto,
 
 I couldn't have put it better myself. And two cooks can do the same dish but oh my, not even close.

Best,
AVAVA

to help or not to help, that is a question... and i can see both side now ...

I suppose you can blame the newbies you helped for stealing your income,
or stop making copiable images . But if we look at the most obvious, ie. how many Yuri clones do you see?  You don't see Yuri screaming plagiarism.

It's too soon to know, but what goes around comes around, like zeus and epantha and lisa hinted. I, being an optimist , go with them .There's enough to share 

Some years ago I asked my editor why they stopped putting out wants lists. List of images that were not in the library and that the agency felt would sell well. His reply was simple enough, "no one ever produces anything from it except the time we asked for a pretty model doing a breast self examination"; which apparently they were deluged with.

Peter

Just like cooking. You can give all your friends your recipes, but make sure you leave out at least one key "secret" ingredient, or how you process the food.  

I agree but a lot of people can't help themselves, I guess it's an ego thing wanting others to think they're the best or something. By the way can I have your recipe for lemon ice cream.

I'm more of the opinion (note that!) that telling people what sells, or how to shoot, doesn't do much. Most don't follow up, many don't listen, some don't have the experience to use what they are told, and most of the time, lighting is key to making a great photo. It's expensive to control the light and have the equipment necessary to manipulate lighting on a professional level. 1) Lighting is more important than the camera in many cases.

Totally agree

2) Editing what you have is a whole different venture. Not that I can turn a silk purse into a sows ear (or is it supposed to be the other way around?   ) But learning how to use the photo editing software correctly, is often just as important for making a good photo as the source equipment that took the picture.

3) An eye for composition. This you can't give away, sell or tip off as a secret, because it's either learned through exposure to art, or in some very rare cases, have some natural ability to see things in a wonderful and creative way, in their minds eye, before they shoot the picture.

I agree with both these points to an extent, but a lot of stock on microstock sites "ain't no art" and a blind monkey could do it if they were shown the way, I'm just saying don't take bubbles by the hand and lead him down the path.


I'm not saying don't share information and Pete you of all people know I quite often share info albeit not generally in a public forum, but my point is, this thing we call the micrstock community is fast turning into a marketplace for the lazy f*****rs who aren't interested in learning the 'art' but just want the quick way to screw those of us that do, and I see far too many people who are willing to help them do it.

And on that note watch out for threads like this and many others:

http://submit.shutterstock.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=54659

It will be interesting to see how many responses it gets, am I right in thinking the OP's hidden message is clear?

Now it appears I've taken the Mr Nasty mantle away from Sean, sorry Sean.

If you help a newbie, you loose money. Simple as that.

You don't see the bigger picture, don't you? 

Although of course I didn't take it, here's the Worst Toilet in Scotland (from one of my favorite movies of all time):

You've never been to Scotland have you!

here in germany we have a good forum where newbies aks.. and i help why not... if they sell pics its ok for me...

I dont affraid of any user fotographs.. they mad other pics...

Quote from: Perrush on January 22, 2009, 18:11

I hope you see the point.  Just shoot and be happy.  Once you start shooting for money it takes away the magic of photography.

No, I can't agree.

When I was shooting for a hobby I almost entirely concentrated on landscapes and sports. The problem with that was you were so utterly dependent on things outside of your control, like the weather.

One of the beauties of stock is that it has opened my eyes to a whole range of subjects and styles of shooting that I'd never even considered before and, as a result, some the images I'm now proudest of I would never even have thought of photographing before. Because of the range of subjects and the sheer quanity of photography and all the learning involved in understanding stock I'm 10x better at photography now than I ever was before.

Nowadays I can get just as much pleasure and satisfaction out of shooting a plate of food or an industrial concept as I've ever got out of landscapes.  Yes, shooting for money is supposedly still 'a job' ... but it doesn't feel like one.

I can start when I want, stop when I want and I also get to choose what and where I want to do it. I can pretty much buy all the equipment I want, travel where I want to go and then subtract all those expenses from my tax return. Does it beat climbing into a suit and driving to the same industrial estate every day? You bet it does __ I've never been happier.

Indeed, if you get paid for doing something you enjoy it only serves to expand magic as you explore further possibilities and horizons, the old magic of playing with chemicals in a darkroom is just as present in the excitement of sitting down in front of a new batch raw files.... being paid for doing something creative which you enjoy is a gift few people have in this day and age.

Indeed, if you get paid for doing something you enjoy it only serves to expand magic as you explore further possibilities and horizons, the old magic of playing with chemicals in a darkroom is just as present in the excitement of sitting down in front of a new batch raw files.... being paid for doing something creative which you enjoy is a gift few people have in this day and age.

if you shoot for stock, there isn't any magic.  You know what you will shoot and how it will look like even before you start shooting.  It are not your own idea's because you need to see what sells and shoot those subjects.

I can see the magic in your eyes when, what you thought will be your best image, is rejected for whatever reason OR when your good selling subject is being copied by others whom are much higher in the search ranks.

Being paid for your images is not bad, changing your workflow to meet standards isn't either.  Only shooting good selling subjects in mass IS imho.  Depending on the money you earn is an other one imho.

Now it appears I've taken the Mr Nasty mantle away from Sean, sorry Sean.

I thought I was Mr. Grumpy.

Quote from: RT on January 22, 2009, 17:34

Now it appears I've taken the Mr Nasty mantle away from Sean, sorry Sean.

I thought I was Mr. Grumpy.

  it's 2009 , everybody needs a chg of scenery , Sean included 

In my opinion, helping doesn't hurt anyone. The thing is, if the person is talented and determined, he/she will achieve their goals no matter if you help them or not. They will find out about those "secrets" and "tricks" on their own, by trial and error, books, internet. By sharing some info you make their life a little bit easier, giving them a bit of a shortcut, but you're not changing a big picture. And for the people who are not able to find out about those "tricks" themselves, no amount of help will actually help. It's a no lose situation. And helping others actually makes you feel nice, instead of feeling like an a**hole:)

well said Elena. you can tell show them all you want, or not, the one with the talent will find it out for themselves eventually anyway. and if you consider them a threat as a newbie, they will be a bigger threat to you once they gain the experience.  helping them will have them remember you as a helpful network, so you will have them as a peer rather than a rival. they will remember what you did for them as a newbie.

Quote from: sjlocke on January 22, 2009, 19:37

Quote from: RT on January 22, 2009, 17:34

Now it appears I've taken the Mr Nasty mantle away from Sean, sorry Sean.

I thought I was Mr. Grumpy.

  it's 2009 , everybody needs a chg of scenery , Sean included 

spoke too soon tan510jomast, i guess he doesn't like the change of scenery 

Not even JC ( as in  the man of the bible).(NOTE I couldn't type in his name, it got edited out so using JC) , JC did not get 100% He got 1/12.
 He healed 12 lepers and only one came to thank him and he asked "I healed 12, why did only 1 come to thank me?"
So your percentage is still better than JC   

Who is this JC character and how long has he been doing microstock?

Quote from: tan510jomast on January 22, 2009, 21:43

Not even JC ( as in  the man of the bible).(NOTE I couldn't type in his name, it got edited out so using JC) , JC did not get 100% He got 1/12.
 He healed 12 lepers and only one came to thank him and he asked "I healed 12, why did only 1 come to thank me?"
So your percentage is still better than JC   

Who is this JC character and how long has he been doing microstock?

  gostwyck he didn't stay long, he didn't like the subs. 

LOL!  Love that one! 

Although of course I didn't take it, here's the Worst Toilet in Scotland (from one of my favorite movies of all time):

Haaaa. One of my favorite movies too. A classic. Well, classic in a deranged sort of way.

i watched it and in general enjoyed it but the toilet scene actually made me throw up.  I'm not usually that squeamish but felt a bit off colour that day.

Quote from: Pixart on January 22, 2009, 17:54

One of my all-time faves too.  I took it to a friend's recently and they were both utterly revolted and wouldn't watch it past the first 15 minutes.  Me-artist.  Them-normal.

Unbelievable!  You definitely need different friends.  Trainspotting is brilliant!

Just curious how this matters about anything.  "Remember what you did for them as a newbie"...  I've answered a lot of questions about various things to people's emails, and aside from getting the occasional "thanks", I'm not sure if any of them remember what I passed along, or how it is supposed to affect me now, aside from them competing with me.

So, what is their good memory supposed to do for me someday? 

It is more about what do YOU think of yourself: I'm now old (I didn't say wise) enough to consider that the most important is not what other think about yourself, but how YOU feel about yourself.

I prefer not to have to consider myself as an a**hole as Elena said 

I agree with Elena.

We need both a heart and a**hole to survive. Imagine what will happen if we don't have an a**hole.
So really, it's a question of balance. There is a place for both "good hearted" and "a**holes".
 (Filosofia Hali)

goodness gracious, we are in the midst of persona. first we have the nigerians, then JC, and now we have Socrates. all bow to such esteem visitors 

I want to thank everbody who have posted helpful hints for newcomers. They have been most helpful to me. THANK YOU! As for being competition -unless "yu-all" fly airplanes and take photos from them - I am no competition to anybody.
Smiling Jack

Hi All,

 If you are not here to share and learn information with one another than I don't think you are really utilizing the " forum " part of it. Helping others does not always have to do with bragging for some it has to do with feeling helpful and paying back the gift others shared with you. It is our nature to nurture as well as kill one another, strange animal the human. It is our ability to make a choice that makes us special and for me the choice of helping offers the greatest rewards. Just my two cents.

Best,
AVAVA

Reply to RT
1. I always visually clear the area before shooting photos.
2. In high traffic areas I always have an observer.
3. The aircraft I use is very stable and slow.After owning and flying this plane for 60yrs(1949-2009)-I just whisper to it and it goes where i tell it.
P.S.-Thanks for the suggestion of the company  in the UK that specialised in airtaxi photos.But unfortunately I haven't taken any aerial photos in the UK.4 continents but
not the UK Thanks just the same.
Smiling Jack