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Author Topic: What's worse, cutting commissions or (almost) 100% rejections?  (Read 9254 times)

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« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2011, 04:50 »
0
Numerous threads regarding FT cutting commissions on were opened (joined into one by Leaf), just like there were tens of thousands of post about IS who started all this. There are only 2 threads about (almost) 100% rejections at SS that, judging by the lack of new posts, don't really interest ppl much. I think in the long run we'll be even worse off at SS, if they don't stop messing around with reviewing. And who's to say, they are not going to cut the commissions on top of that?

I'm not trying to make SS the bad guys, nor am I (really) blowing off steam. I'm just trying to point out to something that could be not only bad for us, but disastrous (rejections staying at 100% most of the time and cutting commissions)

So you would rather have your commissions cut and get your crappy photos accepted...

I like SS, if they reject it, it is for a good reason.. Work harder, instead of complaining..


« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2011, 05:05 »
0
Cidepix, have to agree with you. When I get an image rejected by SS I usually agree with their reasons after having another look at it and I think this helps me improve the quality of my images.
I would much prefer to get paid more for the images that are accepted.

Druid

lisafx

« Reply #27 on: August 20, 2011, 18:07 »
0

Tnx I'll try to do that. My PS skills are pathetic, I was just discussing that with a friend of mine half an hour ago. I really have to work on that. Besides I have a ton of models at my disposal, perfect weather, but don't have any good ideas on what and even more, how to shoot, even though I know there's thousands of concepts you can shoot outside in the summer. I really have to get inspired and fast, summer will be over in 10 days :(


You may have hit on the two problems right here.  Sounds like your concepts are good, and you have access to models.  But SS (and the others too to a degree) are increasingly picky about lighting, and appearance of the photo (accomplished in post).  

Sounds like you are shooting outdoors in sunny conditions.  Living in Florida, I do a lot of that too.  Are you modifying your light?  I find that shooting in the shade and using a reflector or fill light to make the models pop is a way to really brighten the image.  I have not been very happy with the look of images shot in direct sunlight with no modification.  If you are already doing that, then the issue must be your post processing, as you suggest.

People will tell you jpeg is as good as RAW.  Maybe in perfectly controlled studio situations it is.  But shooting outdoors using natural light, you really need the extra manipulation you get with a RAW file.  I don't mean fixing mistakes.  Garbage in, garbage out.  But even on a well shot image, proper post processing will make it look a lot better, and RAW allows you to push the contrast and color without adding artifacts, unlike jpeg.  Here's an example:




Oh, and in answer to your original question - lowering commissions is a lot worse.  If you are getting rejections, you can improve your images and technical skills to give them what they want.  With commission cuts there is absolutely nothing you can do about it short of quitting altogether. 
« Last Edit: August 20, 2011, 18:10 by lisafx »

Slovenian

« Reply #28 on: August 20, 2011, 18:29 »
0
Numerous threads regarding FT cutting commissions on were opened (joined into one by Leaf), just like there were tens of thousands of post about IS who started all this. There are only 2 threads about (almost) 100% rejections at SS that, judging by the lack of new posts, don't really interest ppl much. I think in the long run we'll be even worse off at SS, if they don't stop messing around with reviewing. And who's to say, they are not going to cut the commissions on top of that?

I'm not trying to make SS the bad guys, nor am I (really) blowing off steam. I'm just trying to point out to something that could be not only bad for us, but disastrous (rejections staying at 100% most of the time and cutting commissions)

So you would rather have your commissions cut and get your crappy photos accepted...

I like SS, if they reject it, it is for a good reason.. Work harder, instead of complaining..

I love it when inbreds like you decide to comment. I feel so much better about myself because of that.

Slovenian

« Reply #29 on: August 20, 2011, 18:36 »
0

Tnx I'll try to do that. My PS skills are pathetic, I was just discussing that with a friend of mine half an hour ago. I really have to work on that. Besides I have a ton of models at my disposal, perfect weather, but don't have any good ideas on what and even more, how to shoot, even though I know there's thousands of concepts you can shoot outside in the summer. I really have to get inspired and fast, summer will be over in 10 days :(


You may have hit on the two problems right here.  Sounds like your concepts are good, and you have access to models.  But SS (and the others too to a degree) are increasingly picky about lighting, and appearance of the photo (accomplished in post).  

Sounds like you are shooting outdoors in sunny conditions.  Living in Florida, I do a lot of that too.  Are you modifying your light?  I find that shooting in the shade and using a reflector or fill light to make the models pop is a way to really brighten the image.  I have not been very happy with the look of images shot in direct sunlight with no modification.  If you are already doing that, then the issue must be your post processing, as you suggest.

People will tell you jpeg is as good as RAW.  Maybe in perfectly controlled studio situations it is.  But shooting outdoors using natural light, you really need the extra manipulation you get with a RAW file.  I don't mean fixing mistakes.  Garbage in, garbage out.  But even on a well shot image, proper post processing will make it look a lot better, and RAW allows you to push the contrast and color without adding artifacts, unlike jpeg.  Here's an example:




Oh, and in answer to your original question - lowering commissions is a lot worse.  If you are getting rejections, you can improve your images and technical skills to give them what they want.  With commission cuts there is absolutely nothing you can do about it short of quitting altogether. 


Tnx for the tips Lisa, but I'm not that bad to not know the basics :D . I'll PM you a link to my port, it'll be a lot easier than describing what and how I do it and I'll actually save your time too, it'll take 15 seconds for you to see exactly what I do ;)

lisafx

« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2011, 18:45 »
0

Tnx for the tips Lisa, but I'm not that bad to not know the basics :D . I'll PM you a link to my port, it'll be a lot easier than describing what and how I do it and I'll actually save your time too, it'll take 15 seconds for you to see exactly what I do ;)

Wasn't trying to insult your intelligence or anything.  Could not tell from your posts what you skill level was.   The amount of rejections you are getting at SS don't make sense to me if your skill level is high.  

Looking forward to seeing what you can do :)

ETA:  Wow.  After seeing your portfolio I am completely mystified you are getting rejections.  Great concepts, lighting, and post too IMO.  Looks to be on a level with the top stuff in micro. 
« Last Edit: August 20, 2011, 18:51 by lisafx »

Slovenian

« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2011, 19:01 »
0

Tnx for the tips Lisa, but I'm not that bad to not know the basics :D . I'll PM you a link to my port, it'll be a lot easier than describing what and how I do it and I'll actually save your time too, it'll take 15 seconds for you to see exactly what I do ;)

Wasn't trying to insult your intelligence or anything.  Could not tell from your posts what you skill level was.   The amount of rejections you are getting at SS don't make sense to me if your skill level is high.  

Looking forward to seeing what you can do :)

ETA:  Wow.  After seeing your portfolio I am completely mystified you are getting rejections.  Great concepts, lighting, and post too IMO.  Looks to be on a level with the top stuff in micro. 

It wasn't taken in such a way ;)

Tnx Lisa. Not top level, I'm not satisfied with the lighting when I'm using studio lights, but then again I can make excuses, such as lacking the knowledge and not being easy to do everything with a single 60x60 softbox and an umbrella. And currently I'm frustrated with the lack of my imagination :s

« Reply #32 on: August 20, 2011, 19:27 »
0


... avoid the stereo-type cliche type of shots, boats, cars, supermarkets, behind counters, you know, commercial everyday life.



You mean the stuff that sells? : )

You seem to "think" you know all God regarding micro...and rarely can you debate nothing more than your own weakness.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2011, 19:35 by Mantis »

TheSmilingAssassin

    This user is banned.
« Reply #33 on: August 21, 2011, 00:42 »
0
Numerous threads regarding FT cutting commissions on were opened (joined into one by Leaf), just like there were tens of thousands of post about IS who started all this. There are only 2 threads about (almost) 100% rejections at SS that, judging by the lack of new posts, don't really interest ppl much. I think in the long run we'll be even worse off at SS, if they don't stop messing around with reviewing. And who's to say, they are not going to cut the commissions on top of that?

I'm not trying to make SS the bad guys, nor am I (really) blowing off steam. I'm just trying to point out to something that could be not only bad for us, but disastrous (rejections staying at 100% most of the time and cutting commissions)

So you would rather have your commissions cut and get your crappy photos accepted...

I like SS, if they reject it, it is for a good reason.. Work harder, instead of complaining..

How can you call his work crappy if you haven't seen it?  I don't blame him for being anonymous.  He's probably too embarrassed being associated with the likes of people like you.  I don't know who's worse, the greedy agents that cut commissions, or the smartarses in here that don't allow anyone to discuss issues and try to come up with solutions.  This forum has become a joke and is full of snotty middle aged kids.  Seriously... grow up!  

This is why I'm now not sure about continuing with my direct selling project... because along with decent contributors that it'd help out, it'd also be helping A-holes like you and VB that do nothing but go around insulting people's work.  I may still go ahead with it, but if I do, it'll be by invitation only... just so I can live with myself.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2011, 00:44 by hasleftthebuilding »

lthn

    This user is banned.
« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2011, 03:44 »
0


... avoid the stereo-type cliche type of shots, boats, cars, supermarkets, behind counters, you know, commercial everyday life.



You mean the stuff that sells? : )

You seem to "think" you know all God regarding micro...and rarely can you debate nothing more than your own weakness.

I see you think you are the local yoda : ))

« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2011, 04:43 »
0
If you are anonymous on this forum, get ready for any kind of comments.. I used to be anonymous and used to get lots of a-holes(as you describe it) attacking me without seeing my work.. I don't blame people for doing that.. If you want any sort of credibility you have to show your work..

His work may be awesome but I have no chance of seeing that.. If he complains about rejections, then he should show us examples to prove shutterstock is wrong.. if not than he sounds like one of the newbies who complains on shutterstock forums all the time when they don't get the initial 10 approved.. yes, I am talking about those kids who knows photography better than anybody who runs one of the biggest stockphoto websites that is shutterstock..

Numerous threads regarding FT cutting commissions on were opened (joined into one by Leaf), just like there were tens of thousands of post about IS who started all this. There are only 2 threads about (almost) 100% rejections at SS that, judging by the lack of new posts, don't really interest ppl much. I think in the long run we'll be even worse off at SS, if they don't stop messing around with reviewing. And who's to say, they are not going to cut the commissions on top of that?

I'm not trying to make SS the bad guys, nor am I (really) blowing off steam. I'm just trying to point out to something that could be not only bad for us, but disastrous (rejections staying at 100% most of the time and cutting commissions)

So you would rather have your commissions cut and get your crappy photos accepted...

I like SS, if they reject it, it is for a good reason.. Work harder, instead of complaining..

How can you call his work crappy if you haven't seen it?  I don't blame him for being anonymous.  He's probably too embarrassed being associated with the likes of people like you.  I don't know who's worse, the greedy agents that cut commissions, or the smartarses in here that don't allow anyone to discuss issues and try to come up with solutions.  This forum has become a joke and is full of snotty middle aged kids.  Seriously... grow up!  

This is why I'm now not sure about continuing with my direct selling project... because along with decent contributors that it'd help out, it'd also be helping A-holes like you and VB that do nothing but go around insulting people's work.  I may still go ahead with it, but if I do, it'll be by invitation only... just so I can live with myself.

Microbius

« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2011, 05:43 »
0
hasleftthebuilding are you pseudonymous/ sunnymars? I'm finding it hard to keep track with people constantly changing their names on this forum!
How about even anonymous people try to stick to one name for a while, so we can keep track of personalities here?!

TheSmilingAssassin

    This user is banned.
« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2011, 05:53 »
0
But why do you have to take it there?  Why assume that his images are 'crappy'.  The guy (or girl) has already said they were sitting on 90% AR for the last six months and then it switched to almost 100% rejection.  If you're going to assume anything using the little information you have, shouldn't you assume that his images are not crappy and that there's obviously something off going on with the reviewers there.  What if it suddenly turns around for you and you then get 100% rejections, should we all call your images "crappy" because shutterstock suddenly starting rejecting them?

Some of the people here are just rude and it's constant comments like yours that pop up out of nowhere making people get their backs up and turning every thread into a mess.  What is the point of this forum if grown up contributors can't discuss their experiences without someone snapping at them for no reason.  I'm finding I'm always getting IS exclusives talking rubbish to me for no reason at all other than to get me fired up and then I lose focus on point of the thread.  I'll get fired up then more people jump in and the thread becomes another waste of time.  Likewise you have anonymous posters copping endless crap from others here for no reason other than because they're anonymous.  They have their reasons for being anonymous so why can't people respect that?

If you are anonymous on this forum, get ready for any kind of comments.. I used to be anonymous and used to get lots of a-holes(as you describe it) attacking me without seeing my work.. I don't blame people for doing that.. If you want any sort of credibility you have to show your work..

His work may be awesome but I have no chance of seeing that.. If he complains about rejections, then he should show us examples to prove shutterstock is wrong.. if not than he sounds like one of the newbies who complains on shutterstock forums all the time when they don't get the initial 10 approved.. yes, I am talking about those kids who knows photography better than anybody who runs one of the biggest stockphoto websites that is shutterstock..

Numerous threads regarding FT cutting commissions on were opened (joined into one by Leaf), just like there were tens of thousands of post about IS who started all this. There are only 2 threads about (almost) 100% rejections at SS that, judging by the lack of new posts, don't really interest ppl much. I think in the long run we'll be even worse off at SS, if they don't stop messing around with reviewing. And who's to say, they are not going to cut the commissions on top of that?

I'm not trying to make SS the bad guys, nor am I (really) blowing off steam. I'm just trying to point out to something that could be not only bad for us, but disastrous (rejections staying at 100% most of the time and cutting commissions)

So you would rather have your commissions cut and get your crappy photos accepted...

I like SS, if they reject it, it is for a good reason.. Work harder, instead of complaining..

How can you call his work crappy if you haven't seen it?  I don't blame him for being anonymous.  He's probably too embarrassed being associated with the likes of people like you.  I don't know who's worse, the greedy agents that cut commissions, or the smartarses in here that don't allow anyone to discuss issues and try to come up with solutions.  This forum has become a joke and is full of snotty middle aged kids.  Seriously... grow up!  

This is why I'm now not sure about continuing with my direct selling project... because along with decent contributors that it'd help out, it'd also be helping A-holes like you and VB that do nothing but go around insulting people's work.  I may still go ahead with it, but if I do, it'll be by invitation only... just so I can live with myself.

Microbius, you're right, but I changed it because for the last few weeks I've been mostly discussing the selling direct project which I'm probably going to scrap... I didn't want people to expect it and I didn't want people to continue contacting me about it both here and on my sites.  Also I probably won't be posting as much in here now that I don't intend to go ahead with it... at least for a while anyway.  I really wanted to discuss the Fotolia (and microstock problem in general) but it just seems impossible to discuss anything here most times.  I'm still interested in reading about issues though but even that is a bit of a waste of time because every thread turns out like this one.  It's ruining the forum.

Microbius

« Reply #38 on: August 21, 2011, 06:16 »
0
Okay got ya. I only just read the FL thread too, so I get it now. Not about being deceptive but a fresh start sort of thing.

TheSmilingAssassin

    This user is banned.
« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2011, 06:50 »
0
Microbius, no, it's not even about making a fresh start.  It's more about being left alone over the selling direct project because people were reading a lot of my older posts in various threads about the idea and contacting me.  I don't know what to tell people now if they ask me.  Right now I'm turned off over it and want to put it on the backburner while I focus on a few other things but who knows, maybe in a few months, if there's more interest in selling direct, I may resurrect it.  People were also curious and contacting me over another idea I brought up and I don't want them contacting me over that either... I may need to patent it first.

But back on topic.  I hope people lighten up a bit in here.  No one should be surprised over the increase in rejections, but Slovenian is right, what does a person do in the situation where they suddenly get almost 100% rejections.  Do they quit?  What if it starts happening to you or I in the near future? 

Everyone's getting pissed over lowered commissions and higher rejections and taking it out on each other here.  Instead of supporting each other, we've become each others' punching bags.  No issue can ever be resolved if every comment is purely driven by emotion.   We may all be competitors but we're also the only people that can relate and understand each other and what we do.  Instead of bashing each other, why can't we all put our collective minds together and come up with better ways.  Even if we don't come up with it ourselves, chances are that some entrepreneur will be reading what we're all saying and may come up with something where we all benefit.  But if every thread turns into just bitching, it will never happen.

lthn

    This user is banned.
« Reply #40 on: August 21, 2011, 09:49 »
0

Tnx I'll try to do that. My PS skills are pathetic, I was just discussing that with a friend of mine half an hour ago. I really have to work on that. Besides I have a ton of models at my disposal, perfect weather, but don't have any good ideas on what and even more, how to shoot, even though I know there's thousands of concepts you can shoot outside in the summer. I really have to get inspired and fast, summer will be over in 10 days :(


You may have hit on the two problems right here.  Sounds like your concepts are good, and you have access to models.  But SS (and the others too to a degree) are increasingly picky about lighting, and appearance of the photo (accomplished in post).  

Sounds like you are shooting outdoors in sunny conditions.  Living in Florida, I do a lot of that too.  Are you modifying your light?  I find that shooting in the shade and using a reflector or fill light to make the models pop is a way to really brighten the image.  I have not been very happy with the look of images shot in direct sunlight with no modification.  If you are already doing that, then the issue must be your post processing, as you suggest.

People will tell you jpeg is as good as RAW.  Maybe in perfectly controlled studio situations it is.  But shooting outdoors using natural light, you really need the extra manipulation you get with a RAW file.  I don't mean fixing mistakes.  Garbage in, garbage out.  But even on a well shot image, proper post processing will make it look a lot better, and RAW allows you to push the contrast and color without adding artifacts, unlike jpeg.  Here's an example:




Oh, and in answer to your original question - lowering commissions is a lot worse.  If you are getting rejections, you can improve your images and technical skills to give them what they want.  With commission cuts there is absolutely nothing you can do about it short of quitting altogether. 


I like the first one lot more to be honest, it only needs the shiny leaf(?) to be removed... and maybe a very slight brightness increase on the faces, but strictly only the faces.

lagereek

« Reply #41 on: August 21, 2011, 09:51 »
0
Mantis!  have hit it on the nail!  involving God in micro. Well?  thats certainly an angle I havent considered. Sure would like to give it a try though :D


« Reply #42 on: August 21, 2011, 18:35 »
0


... avoid the stereo-type cliche type of shots, boats, cars, supermarkets, behind counters, you know, commercial everyday life.



You mean the stuff that sells? : )

You seem to "think" you know all God regarding micro...and rarely can you debate nothing more than your own weakness.

I see you think you are the local yoda : ))

Well at least I am fair and open to opinions. 

lthn

    This user is banned.
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2011, 02:22 »
0


... avoid the stereo-type cliche type of shots, boats, cars, supermarkets, behind counters, you know, commercial everyday life.



You mean the stuff that sells? : )

You seem to "think" you know all God regarding micro...and rarely can you debate nothing more than your own weakness.

I see you think you are the local yoda : ))

Well at least I am fair and open to opinions. 

you just denied a handful of mine... : D

« Reply #44 on: August 22, 2011, 04:07 »
0
Cutting commissions

Slovenian

« Reply #45 on: August 22, 2011, 06:27 »
0
Wow, I can't believe, I finally got a batch through with 100% approval (5/5). If it would get the usual (for the last month or so) 80%-100% rejection I'd just hold of from uploading for a few weeks.

lisafx

« Reply #46 on: August 22, 2011, 16:10 »
0
Congrats Slovenian.  Sounds like you got a bad reviewer before.  I have noticed that rejections go up and seem more random when they are training new reviewers.  Maybe that's what happened to you.

For anyone who is wondering if his work is crappy, it isn't.  It is quite good from what I saw.  As good as most of the top sellers IMO. 

« Reply #47 on: August 22, 2011, 17:56 »
0
I have not uploaded anything in over two years (except at new sites Warmpicture and Stockfresh, but that's old material anyway), so commission cuts hurt me immensely.

Slovenian

« Reply #48 on: August 22, 2011, 18:38 »
0
Congrats Slovenian.  Sounds like you got a bad reviewer before.  I have noticed that rejections go up and seem more random when they are training new reviewers.  Maybe that's what happened to you.

For anyone who is wondering if his work is crappy, it isn't.  It is quite good from what I saw.  As good as most of the top sellers IMO. 

Tnx Lisa. Yeah, a few times in a row :o . It's just my luck...I just hope they won't have anything to do with my photos in the future.

Planing on lots of shoots, so I really need the real inspectors reviewing my images or else it's all for nothing. If this was happening at DT or FT (not uploading there anymore anyway, but if I still was) I wouldn't even care, but SS is something completely different.


 

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