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Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Stock Discussion => Topic started by: imagewell on September 14, 2021, 15:51

Title: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: imagewell on September 14, 2021, 15:51
Hi,
I have been offered for reselling images of people removed from background (people on transparent background in PSD-format).
The photos are originally purchased from stock site with and extended licence, then edited and now resold.
Can this kind of editing (removing background of people) be considered as derivitavive work that can be resold?
I've had two different answers from two different people representing the stock site in question:
"In changed format without background, images are considered as a derivative work that can be used for other projects of clients who download them. "
And
"With an Extended license you can use an image to create a product such as t-shirts, mugs etc for sale. However you are not allowed to resell an image or part of it. Deleting a background or any part of the image doesn't make it derivative work."

So I'm really confused. Which one is right?
Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on September 15, 2021, 04:12
100% NOT allowed (obviously).
Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: DiscreetDuck on September 15, 2021, 06:32
.
Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: Hannafate on September 15, 2021, 08:49
Let's put it this way.

If I catch you doing this with any of my work, I will sue you.
Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on September 15, 2021, 10:59
No.

You do not buy resale rights or copyright ownership with an extended license (of any agency I'm aware of)

Removing material from an image (isolating) does not make this a new work.

Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: DiscreetDuck on September 15, 2021, 11:00
.
Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: DiscreetDuck on September 15, 2021, 11:03
.
Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: Sean Locke Photography on September 15, 2021, 12:04
Maybe we’re not understanding the question.  Do you have a client that you are working for who tells you to download an image and you isolate it and use it in a project for them?

Of course, uploading -anything- with -any part- of something copyrighted by some one else to a stock site is illegal.
Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: imagewell on September 15, 2021, 12:41
Hi,
Thank you for your answers. It confirms what I thought.
I have my own website/ministock specialising in cut out people that are meant for architectural visualizations. All original photos. (www.vishopper.com (http://www.vishopper.com)).
I was approached by a similar cutouts site with an offer to buy over their whole content, which is based on stock images. And this is how I came to investigate the matter.
The stock site in question is Depositphotos. Their representative claims they have Enterprise Digital licence which allows this kind of reselling.
Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on September 15, 2021, 14:38
Absolutely not allowed. Prohibited by section 10 of the DP license agreement. What is the site?
Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: ShadySue on September 17, 2021, 08:53
Absolutely not allowed. Prohibited by section 10 of the DP license agreement. What is the site?
S/he said Depositphotos
Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on September 17, 2021, 08:54
Sorry, I meant which site is selling on the cut out DP images "I was approached by a similar cutouts site with an offer to buy over their whole content, which is based on stock images. And this is how I came to investigate the matter."
Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: KuriousKat on September 17, 2021, 09:51
Hi,
Thank you for your answers. It confirms what I thought.
I have my own website/ministock specialising in cut out people that are meant for architectural visualizations. All original photos. ([url=http://www.vishopper.com]www.vishopper.com[/url] ([url]http://www.vishopper.com[/url])).
I was approached by a similar cutouts site with an offer to buy over their whole content, which is based on stock images. And this is how I came to investigate the matter.
The stock site in question is Depositphotos. Their representative claims they have Enterprise Digital licence which allows this kind of reselling.


So you are selling cutouts on your own website that are cutouts from stock photos you've downloaded? You may well be in breach of the licence you purchased if that is the case, even is it was with an extended licence.

I would imagine that DepositPhoto think that you own the copyright to these.
Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: Firn on September 17, 2021, 10:42
Hi,
Thank you for your answers. It confirms what I thought.
I have my own website/ministock specialising in cut out people that are meant for architectural visualizations. All original photos. ([url=http://www.vishopper.com]www.vishopper.com[/url] ([url]http://www.vishopper.com[/url])).
I was approached by a similar cutouts site with an offer to buy over their whole content, which is based on stock images. And this is how I came to investigate the matter.
The stock site in question is Depositphotos. Their representative claims they have Enterprise Digital licence which allows this kind of reselling.


So you are selling cutouts on your own website that are cutouts from stock photos you've downloaded?

No, s/he said they are from original photos.

Another site that offereded content for sale uses cutouts from Stockphotos and claim the licence allows this, though I don't know a single stock site that allows the re-selling of original content in this way.
Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: imagewell on September 17, 2021, 14:02
The deal is off for us as this kind of licence does not seem valid. At least it does not seem ethical.
Although the representative from Depositphotos kept insisting this is all legal claiming that "Please be informed that all images that are downloaded with Enterprise or Extended License allows to resale images - modified or in the way they were created by the author. "
For me this is very surprising attitude beacause I read the different licences avaialble on their site myself and I didn't get the impression it was allowed.
Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on September 18, 2021, 00:31
I think you are confusing being able to use an image on products for resale with reselling the actual image.
Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: KuriousKat on September 18, 2021, 07:17
Hi,
Thank you for your answers. It confirms what I thought.
I have my own website/ministock specialising in cut out people that are meant for architectural visualizations. All original photos. ([url=http://www.vishopper.com]www.vishopper.com[/url] ([url]http://www.vishopper.com[/url])).
I was approached by a similar cutouts site with an offer to buy over their whole content, which is based on stock images. And this is how I came to investigate the matter.
The stock site in question is Depositphotos. Their representative claims they have Enterprise Digital licence which allows this kind of reselling.


So you are selling cutouts on your own website that are cutouts from stock photos you've downloaded?

No, s/he said they are from original photos.

Another site that offereded content for sale uses cutouts from Stockphotos and claim the licence allows this, though I don't know a single stock site that allows the re-selling of original content in this way.


Are you sure? I was basing my answer on this:

"The photos are originally purchased from stock site with and extended licence, then edited and now resold."
Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on September 18, 2021, 07:52
They were referring to the other site (that approached them) in that section.

Assuming they are being honest and this whole things isn't just a fishing expedition to see where they stand legally with their own site...
Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: Hannafate on September 18, 2021, 08:16
I seriously doubt that "representative" works for Depositphotos.  Tell Depositphotos about the exchange, so they can deal with the criminal.
Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: imagewell on September 18, 2021, 10:52
The representative was Bogdan Dudko.
I mentioned in my original post that I simultanously contacted also Depositphoto official Support through their website. Initially they were clear that this kind of usage is not allowed, but when I mentioned my correspondence with Bogdan Dudko they're answer was vague and said I should check with him for further info etc.
Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on September 19, 2021, 15:22
Rather odd for support to backtrack on their initial answer, but I did a Google search and Bogdan Dudko is the sales team lead at Deposit Photos according to his LinkedIn profile

https://www.linkedin.com/in/bogdan-dudko-7a654b6b (https://www.linkedin.com/in/bogdan-dudko-7a654b6b)

Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: KuriousKat on September 20, 2021, 02:26
They were referring to the other site (that approached them) in that section.

Assuming they are being honest and this whole things isn't just a fishing expedition to see where they stand legally with their own site...

OK, thanks, I wasn't reading it that way but maybe I misunderstood.

So to clarify, the OP has original images that he owns the copyright for and has cutout. Customers download these from his website to add as overlays to their own images. So far so good.

DepositPhotos has approached him to buy or submit his cutout people images for DP customer to download, add to there own background and resell - is that correct?

How can they resell these images if they don't have a model release?

If DP [edited] support have said it isn't possible, perhaps there was just a misunderstanding between the OP and Bogdan Dudko, and the content is wanted for normal stock purposes, such as products for resale, rather than resale of derivative images?
Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: Firn on September 20, 2021, 02:58
They were referring to the other site (that approached them) in that section.

Assuming they are being honest and this whole things isn't just a fishing expedition to see where they stand legally with their own site...

OK, thanks, I wasn't reading it that way but maybe I misunderstood.

So to clarify, the OP has original images that he owns the copyright for and has cutout. Customers download these from his website to add as overlays to their own images. So far so good.

DepositPhotos has approached him to buy or submit his cutout people images for DP customer to download, add to there own background and resell - is that correct?

How can they resell these images if they don't have a model release?

If Shutterstock support have said it isn't possible, perhaps there was just a misunderstanding between the OP and Bogdan Dudko, and the content is wanted for normal stock purposes, such as products for resale, rather than resale of derivative images?

No.

He has a site where he sells cutouts from his original photography.

A site that also sells cutouts approached him asking him whether he wants to buy their content..
THEIR content is made from images bought from Depositephotos. They claim that the extended licence they have allows the re-selling of the images after removing just the background.

The OP can't seem to get a clear answer from Depositephotos on this issue.
Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on September 20, 2021, 04:14
/\ What he/she said
Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: 50% on September 20, 2021, 05:37
I'm so happy that I removed all my content from Deposhit long ago, they have always been fishy and certainly not worth the uploading (sales-wise)
Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: KuriousKat on September 21, 2021, 03:17
They were referring to the other site (that approached them) in that section.

Assuming they are being honest and this whole things isn't just a fishing expedition to see where they stand legally with their own site...

OK, thanks, I wasn't reading it that way but maybe I misunderstood.

So to clarify, the OP has original images that he owns the copyright for and has cutout. Customers download these from his website to add as overlays to their own images. So far so good.

DepositPhotos has approached him to buy or submit his cutout people images for DP customer to download, add to there own background and resell - is that correct?

How can they resell these images if they don't have a model release?

If DP [edited] support have said it isn't possible, perhaps there was just a misunderstanding between the OP and Bogdan Dudko, and the content is wanted for normal stock purposes, such as products for resale, rather than resale of derivative images?

No.

He has a site where he sells cutouts from his original photography.

A site that also sells cutouts approached him asking him whether he wants to buy their content..
THEIR content is made from images bought from Depositephotos. They claim that the extended licence they have allows the re-selling of the images after removing just the background.

The OP can't seem to get a clear answer from Depositephotos on this issue.

Ah, thank you Firn!

I totally misunderstood which way the intended transaction was going.
Title: Re: What constitutes derivative work?
Post by: Justanotherphotographer on September 21, 2021, 03:49
Rather odd for support to backtrack on their initial answer, but I did a Google search and Bogdan Dudko is the sales team lead at Deposit Photos according to his LinkedIn profile

https://www.linkedin.com/in/bogdan-dudko-7a654b6b (https://www.linkedin.com/in/bogdan-dudko-7a654b6b)

* Depositphotos. Maybe give this hotelier some basic training in IP before making making him head of sales. Can't say I'm surprised though.