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Author Topic: What do you tell aspiring photographers about stock?  (Read 14973 times)

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lisafx

« on: August 25, 2009, 08:51 »
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Is it just me, or is everyone constantly getting questions about stock from friends, acquaintances, etc. who are either studying photography or know someone who is?

For example, at church Sunday a couple I know only slightly came up and wanted advice about getting started in stock for a friend of theirs who is studying photography at community college.  She doesn't have any idea whether she wants to do commercial work, weddings & portraits, photojournalism, or stock.  This happens all the time.  I should have a better prepared speech I guess.

So my choice is be really positive and encouraging or tell the truth.  Which as I see it is that microstock is not the way to go for someone starting out as a photographer and wanting to make a living.  IMO this field has just become way over-saturated with content and the odds of a newbie just starting out being able to make a living at this is beyond minimal.  Even some of the early entrants into micro appear to have thrown in the towel, or at least branched into other fields of photography.  The recent and continuing influx of macro stock pros just makes the competition even more fierce.

I would probably seem much nicer if I chose the positive and encouraging route, but I generally opt for telling the truth ;)

I ended up suggesting that while their friend is still in school she should take some business and marketing classes.   In the portrait & wedding market, anyway, it seems like success is more dependent on business and marketing skill than photographic artistry.

I assume others of you get the same type of thing - people figuring that there are buckets of money on the table waiting to be grabbed for any eager novice photographer.  How do you handle it?  My response could use some polish, for sure :)

 
« Last Edit: August 25, 2009, 08:56 by lisafx »


« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2009, 09:07 »
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I would probably seem much nicer if I chose the positive and encouraging route, but I generally opt for telling the truth ;)

Always the best route, although some don't like to hear it.  I think they've all been raised now on the numerous "Make Money from your Snapshots" web sites.  These bloggers may have done quite the disservice to the believing public in their zeal for gaining new referrals or whatever their reason.  Or these newbs see someone with a long history and some success and figure it's as easy as buying some apples and white paper.

There were two models at the lypse in Calgary who wanted to start shooting stock.  Very nice people.  However, apparently, they had just gone out and got a D60 or got it from a friend or something, and wanted to get started right away.  I was like "Ahhh, ok.  Good luck with that.".  What are you going to say?

« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2009, 09:15 »
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Interesting. To be honest my experience is the just the opposite __ most people I talk to consider earning a living with a camera to be so far beyond their comprehension or ability that they wouldn't dream of attempting it. I don't think I've ever had anyone seriously ask me questions about how they could do it.

I think you should be honest. Tell them it is difficult but also possible for those who are really determined __ and it will take time too. I think you do have to have at least some natural aptitude and a lot of interest in photography for it to work though.

« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2009, 09:19 »
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Tell the truth, always the best service.
I get the same question about videogames: "How do I become a videogame programmer?"
Well, if you are ready to be underpaid, work long hours and long weeks for months, be stressed all the time and see very stiff competition in front of you... go ahead, but you do it for passion, not for money.

People just run off to send their CV to a bank afterwards :)

« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2009, 09:20 »
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Well, if you are ready to be underpaid, work long hours and long weeks for months, be stressed all the time and see very stiff competition in front of you... go ahead, but you do it for passion, not for money.

That's good and pretty accurate for all but a very few!

hqimages

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« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2009, 09:24 »
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Well I don't just have people asking, but now camera shops!!!! One chain of camera shops here seems to be in trouble, and I'm running a promo with them for another client.. but if THEY can't make a living from photography I thought what hope does the freelancer have!

Good money in Weddings alright for some people, but again, the market is pretty much sewn up via referrals/personality, so VERY hard for a new photographer to break through (plus every gig involves a totally new client which is costly from an advertising/marketing point of view, repeat custom is preferable).. this camera shop I'm dealing with has an entire FLOOR dedicated to their studio, and they never use it.. it ridiculous, it's as if they just think 'weddings, and family portraits', they can't see beyond that and slowly their hardware business is being undermined by on-line dealerships.. it's very frustrating.

All you can do is give some advice and ideas, try and open people's minds a bit, point them in roughly the right direction and the rest is so much up to them.. you can fight new methods, or you can use them to your advantage, and if they don't use new methods to their advantage, there's a very high chance they will die.

Even on the radio the other day they were having a weddings feature, and two women were in agreement that camera equipment is so good now there's no need to hire an official photographer, they felt you stand around for too long, it slows down/interrupts the day, and that the photos taken by friends normally end up being the best ones anyway  ::)

Go figure! If anyone has the secret to this industry beyond working hard which we all already do, it beats me!  :)

« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2009, 09:26 »
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I say:

-You should have asked me at least five years ago
-Lots of work / little money / hard competition
-You feel like a prostitute when selling work for pennies
-There is a certain feeling of freedom
-No annoying clients (just annoying agencies)
-It's a volume/quality game
-Shooting is just a small part of the work

Nowdays, every shooter that don't try doing stock is a good shooter (less competition)  :)

« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2009, 09:44 »
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I used to be very bullish on stock photography but obviously not so these days. There are still plenty of opportunities but it's a lot harder now.

« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2009, 12:01 »
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I do one thing only. I ask them to Google the following terms: Wedding Photography, Micro stock photography, Macro stock photography, Commercial photography, and Photojournalism. Then call me in a week to discuss. That exercise will teach them more about photography careers than all the college photo classes they could take in a lifetime. 99% of the time you'll never hear another word from them on the subject.

« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2009, 12:32 »
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Ive had several people ask me how to get involved with stock photography and I just give them the names of some of the micro agencies.  I figure they will either see the quality and forget about it or get excited and start shooting.  Sometimes people can surprise you.

« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2009, 13:52 »
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I'm an illustrator not a photographer, but I'd probably go with the truth. The truth being that they're young and isn't too late to do something easier like nuclear physics. Seriously, I think it's good to be encouraging to people just starting out, but there isn't anything wrong with giving them a little dose of reality. Although if they invite you over to show you snapshots of their cat, it's OK to run like hell.

lisafx

« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2009, 14:05 »
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Interesting.  Looks like we are all pretty much on the same page as to the difficulty of getting into stock now.

You are right about the wedding industry too, Hilary.  I tried my hand at that early in the game and discovered what you are saying.  Lots of people don't want to pay for something they think they can do just as well themselves.  
This is why I think that a business/marketing background is more useful in photography than actual photographic ability.  It is rare I have seen wedding photos (locally) that impressed me from an artistic standpoint.  Most of the successful ones around here do mediocre work but market themselves really well.  The few that really do great work can charge a fortune, but as you said, they have the market sewn up.

I say:

-You should have asked me at least five years ago
-Lots of work / little money / hard competition
-You feel like a prostitute when selling work for pennies
-There is a certain feeling of freedom
-No annoying clients (just annoying agencies)
-It's a volume/quality game
-Shooting is just a small part of the work

Nowdays, every shooter that don't try doing stock is a good shooter (less competition)  :)

LOL!  All very well said, Perry!  Your assessment of the situation is spot on.  Unfortunately I would not have the cojones to be quite so blunt ;)

Really great suggestions in this thread!  Thanks!

« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2009, 14:13 »
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I don't get the question really, but if I did, I'd say that no matter what you shoot, only artists with a decent grasp of business ever make a living off photography or filmmaking (I work in both industries). Once you start hitting them over the head about things like "cash flow", "market saturation", "diminishing returns", etc... I bet you'd probably destroy their dreams. Oh well, they'll learn one way or another, might as well hear it all up front while they still have a shirt on their back.

« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2009, 14:13 »
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I'd say that unless you know a bunch of smiley, good-looking young people willing to pose for nothing, then forget about making any money. 

« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2009, 14:26 »
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My the way I do buy and market images!

I ask if they have a portfolio. If no portfolio, I tell them they need to build a portfolio.
If they have a portfolio, I ask to see it.  I tell them I am interested in purchasing excellent quality image if they meet my requirements. You can guess the outcome on 97.5%  of the portfolios. Sometimes I am surprised!

Perry hit the nail on the head.

-You should have asked me at least five years ago
-Lots of work / little money / hard competition
-You feel like a prostitute when selling work for pennies
-There is a certain feeling of freedom
-No annoying clients (just annoying agencies)
-It's a volume/quality game
-Shooting is just a small part of the work





« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2009, 14:39 »
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Hi All,

 20 years ago on a field trip from photo school to a major stock shooters studio I remember one part of advice he offered so clearly. After his speech about his business and educating us on stock he turned to everyone and finished with " Unfortunately it is to late for any of you to compete on this level. The pros have this business sown up and someone just starting out will never stand a chance of making it ". Never say Never.

Best,
Jonathan

« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2009, 14:54 »
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I would take a different approach.

There IS money to be made in microstock.  All one has to do is do some homework to see what people are buying and find a niche.

You will not succeed if you simply upload the types of things you LIKE to shoot and pay no regard to what buyers NEED.  It may be tough for some to hear, but no one wants your rainbow or puppy dog shots.

Nor will you succeed if you look at someone like Yuri and decide you can do the same thing and make a fortune like him.  To beat him at his game, or come anywhere near him, you have to do what he does BETTER than he does it.  But he's perfected his processes.  You're not going to come near him.

But you CAN succeed if you:

1) Find your niche - find out the types of shots that sell and are not currently flooding the market.  There are underserved niches out there.  I've been finding them, and so can you if you do your homework.

2) Be creative - approach subjects differently than anyone else is doing them.  Again, if you're just doing model shots or static objects on white, your stuff better blow away everything else out there if you have any hope of succeeding. 

3) Build your own style and you'll develop a following.  When others catch on and start copying you, abandon that style and come up with another.  To survive you must eveolve.

4) Concepts sell.  The image should be symbolic of something meaningful to the buyer.  It's not hard to figure out what concepts sell better than others.

Anyway, that's what I'd say.  Not all doom and gloom.  If someone has business sense and an ounce of creativity, he/she can do very well in microstock.
 


hqimages

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« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2009, 15:01 »
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Hi All,

 20 years ago on a field trip from photo school to a major stock shooters studio I remember one part of advice he offered so clearly. After his speech about his business and educating us on stock he turned to everyone and finished with " Unfortunately it is to late for any of you to compete on this level. The pros have this business sown up and someone just starting out will never stand a chance of making it ". Never say Never.

Best,
Jonathan

lol! How encouraging  ::) Still, us photographers are a stubborn bunch, I think that's why we stick it out in microstock ad infinitum, the more they say it can't be done, the more we want to do it!!

« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2009, 15:03 »
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I would take a different approach.

There IS money to be made in microstock.  All one has to do is do some homework to see what people are buying and find a niche.

You will not succeed if you simply upload the types of things you LIKE to shoot and pay no regard to what buyers NEED.  It may be tough for some to hear, but no one wants your rainbow or puppy dog shots.

Nor will you succeed if you look at someone like Yuri and decide you can do the same thing and make a fortune like him.  To beat him at his game, or come anywhere near him, you have to do what he does BETTER than he does it.  But he's perfected his processes.  You're not going to come near him.

But you CAN succeed if you:

1) Find your niche - find out the types of shots that sell and are not currently flooding the market.  There are underserved niches out there.  I've been finding them, and so can you if you do your homework.

2) Be creative - approach subjects differently than anyone else is doing them.  Again, if you're just doing model shots or static objects on white, your stuff better blow away everything else out there if you have any hope of succeeding. 

3) Build your own style and you'll develop a following.  When others catch on and start copying you, abandon that style and come up with another.  To survive you must eveolve.

4) Concepts sell.  The image should be symbolic of something meaningful to the buyer.  It's not hard to figure out what concepts sell better than others.

Anyway, that's what I'd say.  Not all doom and gloom.  If someone has business sense and an ounce of creativity, he/she can do very well in microstock.
 

Best post I've read in a long while.

« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2009, 15:25 »
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^^^ I'd agree.

« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2009, 16:15 »
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Hey PowerDroid- you said it all! Great post
Smiling Jack

« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2009, 17:40 »
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"What do you tell aspiring photographers about stock?".....If you value your sanity stay away from forums ;D

lisafx

« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2009, 18:04 »
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"What do you tell aspiring photographers about stock?".....If you value your sanity stay away from forums ;D

LOL!  Very true! ^^

And really great, detailed advice PowerDroid! 

Jonathan, I know what you mean.  There are always people who will succeed against the odds.  Those people are the ones who view long odds as a challenge to be overcome (as Hilary said).   Those are also the ones willing to do the additional research, in addition to asking an acquaintance :)

« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2009, 18:45 »
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depends on the folks asking...
      sadly,  everyone with a digital camera fansies themselves a "photographer'... 
and while the digiatl age HAS  enabled some with talent that  never knew they had... to come out of their shells,  most are still family snapshoters.

If it's a good friend, I'm honest with them (well, I'm honest with everyone).. but .
If they have 'the eye',  I will encourage them with positive tech tips. With friends, I'll take the time to sit down and look at their work... then critique it
If they don't have the talent..... I try to let them down easy by showing them... what sells on micro and show them they have to 'gain much more experience...'

I always try to be nice and no matter how funky their pix are,  try to find a few good ones to praise... indicating that they need to produce shots like that on a 90% level at the minimum,  or... they'd be wasting their time.  Most... accept that  they... really,  aren't that good.

OTOH....  I've had a few friends.... start giving me a run for the money. They are becoming good/great!!   8)=tom

« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2009, 19:41 »
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Is it just me, or is everyone constantly getting questions about stock from friends, acquaintances, etc. who are either studying photography or know someone who is?

For example, at church Sunday a couple I know only slightly came up and wanted advice about getting started in stock for a friend of theirs who is studying photography at community college.  She doesn't have any idea whether she wants to do commercial work, weddings & portraits, photojournalism, or stock.  This happens all the time.  I should have a better prepared speech I guess.

So my choice is be really positive and encouraging or tell the truth.  Which as I see it is that microstock is not the way to go for someone starting out as a photographer and wanting to make a living.  IMO this field has just become way over-saturated with content and the odds of a newbie just starting out being able to make a living at this is beyond minimal.  Even some of the early entrants into micro appear to have thrown in the towel, or at least branched into other fields of photography.  The recent and continuing influx of macro stock pros just makes the competition even more fierce.

I would probably seem much nicer if I chose the positive and encouraging route, but I generally opt for telling the truth ;)

I ended up suggesting that while their friend is still in school she should take some business and marketing classes.   In the portrait & wedding market, anyway, it seems like success is more dependent on business and marketing skill than photographic artistry.

I assume others of you get the same type of thing - people figuring that there are buckets of money on the table waiting to be grabbed for any eager novice photographer.  How do you handle it?  My response could use some polish, for sure :)

 

once we get past the 'stock photography' - What? photos of cows?? (disadvantage of living in cattle country :))

I tell people I get between $0.30 and a few dollars, and they look at me weird, and usually say something like so if Nat.Geo use your image for front cover you get a dollar $1. the polite ones say you mus be crazy, and say something like you should do weddings...

« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2009, 21:37 »
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Great Post PowerDroid,

 I hate to keep repeating everyone but that info is very strong. Well presented and full of helpful information. Thanks for your input, we all learned from that one.

Best,
Jonathan

PaulieWalnuts

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« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2009, 22:21 »
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I've encouraged a couple of my friends to try it. After I went through a quick shoot and workflow with one of them, they gave up pretty much immediately after seeing the effort. The other was/is a pro who is getting back into photography and submitted a few images but doesn't seem to have committed to continuing it.

If someone asked me I would say to even have a chance at doing well with this that, in addition to photography, the more of these qualities you have the better you will do:
  • A sales and marketing background (to understand what buyers need and also promote yourself)
  • A business background (to run a profitable business)
  • Graphic editing skills (to process photos with Photoshop and also understand how designers work)
  • Search Engine Optimization skills (to understand how buyers search and how keywords work)
  • Several thousand dollars to get started (yes you can get a starter camera for $300 but you also need several lenses, lighting, software, computer upgrades, and plenty of other stuff. If you don't spend it immediately, after you add everything up after a year you will have spent at least a couple thousand dollars)
  • At least 20 hours per week to commit because this can be a second job
  • A blind passion for photography
  • Be single or have a very understanding family
  • Be able to quickly learn from errors and overcome obstacles
  • Have thick skin and humility

I think what most people overlook is that this is a business. Those who have the right skills, mentality, and "get it" will do okay.




« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2009, 23:57 »
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I tend to be honest with them and tell them that there is in fact still the potential to earn a reasonable supplemental income from Microstock but that they are not likely to do it shooting the same things I shot or the things they see in the top 50 or 100 lists of the various sites. If they want to build portfolios today that will stand a chance at earning today they need to search the collections of the various agencies for holes. Find niche market subjects and long-tail themes that they can shoot to fill holes in the collections. It is a slow and tedious process but for those with the skill sets to produce quality imagery and willing to do the work there is still money to be made at this.

« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2009, 01:17 »
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Find niche market subjects and long-tail themes that they can shoot to fill holes in the collections.

The thing with micro is that the images still shouldn't be "too niche". A photo with an unique concept or object is a failure if it's downloaded only once or twice (In a macro agency that might be a good image)

« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2009, 02:30 »
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"What do you tell aspiring photographers about stock?".....

"If I had the answers to your questions, I would be realxing somewhere else or you would be paying me for a consultation!"  ;D

« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2009, 06:12 »
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I usually have to explain what stock is first, because when folks hear I'm a stock photographer, they usually respond with a blank stare.  To those folks I explain that stock is similar to a library, but instead of providing books, we provide images with numerous concepts and ideas.  Invariably the next question is always "How do people use stock photos?"  So I explain that, too.

Today is my first day of a two semester stock photography college course.  After four years as a stock photographer, I thought I'd take the class in part so I can learn how to accurately explain it to people.   :P   If that's all I get out of the class, it will be well worth the money! 

lisafx

« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2009, 07:30 »
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  • Be single or have a very understanding family


And a photogenic one :)

"If I had the answers to your questions, I would be realxing somewhere else or you would be paying me for a consultation!"  ;D

Great answer!  There's a great way to supplement the income - marketing ourselves as "photography career consultants".  ;D

On a serious note, it does seem like some of the best money is in promoting stock (blogging, book writing), or providing support services to aspiring photographers (classes & seminars, keywording & uploading services, etc.).  Maybe that is really where the smart money is these days....?

« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2009, 07:41 »
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Great answer!  There's a great way to supplement the income - marketing ourselves as "photography career consultants".  ;D

On a serious note, it does seem like some of the best money is in promoting stock (blogging, book writing), or providing support services to aspiring photographers (classes & seminars, keywording & uploading services, etc.).  Maybe that is really where the smart money is these days....?


Like Jack Hollingworth
Massive following on Twitter

There is the 'smart money'?

David  ;D

« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2009, 07:48 »
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Like Jack Hollingworth
Massive following on Twitter

There is the 'smart money'?

David  ;D


I followed Jack on Twitter after meeting him at UGCX because he seemed like a nice guy with some interesting talks.  However, he tweets multiple times a day, and they are generally just about his events, lectures, webinars, polls, etc and he answers his fans in his stream instead of privately.  Too much promotional blurb for me, so I unfollowed him.

« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2009, 10:50 »
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Hi Adeptris,

 Yep Jack is definitely one to follow. He has been on the cutting edge of stock for almost 30 years and he knows the business as well if not better than anyone I know. I'm glad you hooked up with him. He is spending a great deal of time learning and teaching the use of social media to improve your stock business and especially how to diversify. I might be a a bit biased because he is a dear friend but only after he spent countless hours helping me learn a great deal about the business of the stock industry. He for sure is a giver not a taker.

Best,
Jonathan

« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2009, 11:30 »
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I'd say that in a perfect world, getting your photos accepted by a microstock would normally mean you'll get at least some sales.  The agencies should have a sense of what will sell - not perfect of course, there are always surprises, but they should have a pretty good idea - and a financial motivation not to accept what won't sell (or even spend time reviewing it for quality).

That's probably somehwat true now, but only slightly.  It may be becoming more true as I hear about increasing rejections of images as "not stock worthy" or "not what we're looking for".  Such rejections would, ideally, work to our advantage.

You'd like to think that reviewers would do a search to see if your image is exploiting an existing hole, or is just the 10,000th shot of an overcovered subject - and let you know when you're getting "warm", i.e. homing in on something that sells.

Too much to ask of a company calling itself an "agency"?


graficallyminded

« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2009, 11:33 »
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Is it just me, or is everyone constantly getting questions about stock from friends, acquaintances, etc. who are either studying photography or know someone who is?

For example, at church Sunday a couple I know only slightly came up and wanted advice about getting started in stock for a friend of theirs who is studying photography at community college.  She doesn't have any idea whether she wants to do commercial work, weddings & portraits, photojournalism, or stock.  This happens all the time.  I should have a better prepared speech I guess.

So my choice is be really positive and encouraging or tell the truth.  Which as I see it is that microstock is not the way to go for someone starting out as a photographer and wanting to make a living.  IMO this field has just become way over-saturated with content and the odds of a newbie just starting out being able to make a living at this is beyond minimal.  Even some of the early entrants into micro appear to have thrown in the towel, or at least branched into other fields of photography.  The recent and continuing influx of macro stock pros just makes the competition even more fierce.

I would probably seem much nicer if I chose the positive and encouraging route, but I generally opt for telling the truth ;)

I ended up suggesting that while their friend is still in school she should take some business and marketing classes.   In the portrait & wedding market, anyway, it seems like success is more dependent on business and marketing skill than photographic artistry.

I assume others of you get the same type of thing - people figuring that there are buckets of money on the table waiting to be grabbed for any eager novice photographer.  How do you handle it?  My response could use some polish, for sure :)

 

I have been getting the same thing - lots approaching me, even random strangers that found my blog.  I'm very honest with them right off the bat that it isn't as easy as it looks, and it's even tougher to get started in it now than it used to be.  The bar has been raised, and there is a lot more competition now.  You used to have 1000 images and it was like having 5000 today.  I used to be all for the education of how to get started to try and grab referrals and get something in return, but in the end I'm just spending a lot of time and getting nothing back.  Helping others is cutting into my own time to work, probably just breeding new competition to the ever growing crowd of microstockers.  That's why I've decided to offer one on one training for a price if they want it.  I can't tell you how many of my friends I've personally had over my home and walked them through every inch of this business on my own home computer.  Did any of them stick to it?  Not one - they realized how much work it was.  So at least if I'm going to help people get started, I won't be wasting my time.  This could be a business in itself for someone that is interested in teaching.  Seminars, workshops, etc.  A lot of photographers have embraced the whole "workshop" strategy in their businesses.


« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2009, 11:55 »
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When a recession hits the media start running the "start your own business", "follow your dream" features.  Our local paper ran a brainless piece about microstock - how you could make money from your vacation photos, etc.   Anxious people who've just lost their jobs read this stuff and think it's real.   So now in addition to worrying about getting hired somewhere, they have to deal with friends and relatives asking "hey did you read that article about stock photos? Why don't you try that?"




« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2009, 12:23 »
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Find niche market subjects and long-tail themes that they can shoot to fill holes in the collections.

The thing with micro is that the images still shouldn't be "too niche". A photo with an unique concept or object is a failure if it's downloaded only once or twice (In a macro agency that might be a good image)

I agree if the niche is to unique or narrow then it would maybe not make sense to pursue it. Yet if that unique object has little of no cost associated with the production of the image and it is downloaded once or twice a year from a dozen different locations and you have a multitude of these nominal earners working for you are boosting your bottom line. Regardless there are still a ton of holes in strong niche categories that can be filled and that will offer successful performance. Typically they are small holes in larger categories. It takes time searching and sorting through the massive pile of imagery that is the current collection of the agencies but the holes are there. Just because something is a specialized niche does not mean that it might not have a significant demand attached to it. Many of the holes today have to do with ethnicity, age and or cultural diversity. Even in the classic business themes that are isolated over white there are still cultural and age related niches that are poorly represented but have significant demand. This is a global marketplace, The US and Europe may be the strongest markets but there are still many markets around the world that are undeserved or that are just beginning to come on line.

« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2009, 13:08 »
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i'm sorta surprised no one has mentioned referring newbies to this [or similar] microstock sites where they can get all the info they need to get started, find out the differences among agencies, and watch some of the discussions lik this ne
a coupla days folloing there forums should give them an idea whether it's someothing they'd like to try...

steve


« Reply #40 on: August 26, 2009, 13:23 »
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As a newbie and when I was first enquiring, I would like to have been given the harsh facts as well as the positives. A lot of the bloggers put a rosy glow on the business along the lines of "I shot this in my kitchen with a reflector made from tin foil and a standard desk lamp" - I suppose it ramps up their visit counter and encourages more sponsorship for them.

Some of the big boys and girls are more upfront about the hard work, adaptability, skill levels and self learning required. But it took me some digging to find out the drop-out rate (more than 75% I reckon) or to get any idea of the numbers of people who take months if not years to reach their first payout.

Its only due to the generosity and kindness of some members of this site that I have any idea if this is a viable business. I still believe it is but now have a more balanced view of what it takes to earn some lolly. So the harsh facts if you please - in a kind way.

True story: when Michael Caine was a delivery driver he dropped off some boxes at EMI Film Studios, took a look at all the flash cars outside and when he recognised a minor actor, grabbed him by the arm and said. "How do you get into this bleeding acting lark then?.


Cheers

« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2009, 13:52 »
0
2nd post - but this is really important for me. The posts from Power and Paulie are bang on. I also had a think about conversations I've had with people who say "why can't I take photographs like you?" And my reply is always along the lines - you can if you get up at 4:00 am, are prepared to spend money on pro,semi-pro kit, go through a vertical learning curve and can't sleep at night if you haven't made at least one good picture that day.

If they see those as obstacles they are not prepared to overcome they never ask again - but they might buy your prints instead ;)

« Reply #42 on: August 26, 2009, 14:27 »
0
<...
>...
You'd like to think that reviewers would do a search to see if your image is exploiting an existing hole, or is just the 10,000th shot of an overcovered subject - and let you know when you're getting "warm", i.e. homing in on something that sells.

Too much to ask of a company calling itself an "agency"?


At $0.05 an image I don't think they have the time to reference the library, just about enough to to pick a rejection reason from a list, tell them that they have to work as a reviewer first and when they have reviewed 1 million images they will know what makes a good stock image.  ;D

David  :o
« Last Edit: August 26, 2009, 14:29 by Adeptris »

« Reply #43 on: August 27, 2009, 10:43 »
0
So last night was my first stock photography class, and the professor's simple explanation of stock was this...

"Stock is about making money.  It's not about making art.  If art is your thing, you aren't going to like stock very much.  It's also about making conceptual images that people can easily understand.  It's not about making images with abstract ideas that cause people to think.  The simpler, the better."

Where have I heard this before?   ;)

One cool side note...the photography department at my school has an informal partnership with Bigstock, and Tim or Dawn might be a guest speaker.

lisafx

« Reply #44 on: August 27, 2009, 12:15 »
0
As a newbie and when I was first enquiring, I would like to have been given the harsh facts as well as the positives. A lot of the bloggers put a rosy glow on the business along the lines of "I shot this in my kitchen with a reflector made from tin foil and a standard desk lamp" - I suppose it ramps up their visit counter and encourages more sponsorship for them.

Some of the big boys and girls are more upfront about the hard work, adaptability, skill levels and self learning required. But it took me some digging to find out the drop-out rate (more than 75% I reckon) or to get any idea of the numbers of people who take months if not years to reach their first payout.

Its only due to the generosity and kindness of some members of this site that I have any idea if this is a viable business. I still believe it is but now have a more balanced view of what it takes to earn some lolly. So the harsh facts if you please - in a kind way.

True story: when Michael Caine was a delivery driver he dropped off some boxes at EMI Film Studios, took a look at all the flash cars outside and when he recognised a minor actor, grabbed him by the arm and said. "How do you get into this bleeding acting lark then?.


Cheers

Really interesting perspective Red Dove.  I hadn't thought about it from the newbie point of view.  I always feel like a meanie when I give people the harsh realities of this business.  But you are right, it is probably unfair to waste their time by not presenting the bad with the good.

FWIW, with the exception of Yuri most of the bloggers who paint an unrealistically rosy picture of micro aren't actually supporting themselves in it.  Otherwise they wouldn't have time to blog ;)

Love the Michael Caine quote!  Proves that for everyone who gives up or doesn't have what it takes, there is the occasional person with a natural gift that will succeed against the odds!

OM

« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2009, 16:39 »
0
Most people starting out in photography as a profession need to get some cash flow going and stock/micro can take a long time to build up before the payments arrive on a regular basis. Do something else first to guarantee a regular income and see if you have the time/desire and innate ability to do it once you are earning money some other way. Stock is essentially a medium-term investment in your future and not an immediate  cash flow generator.

« Reply #46 on: August 27, 2009, 17:15 »
0
PowerDroid did a very interesting posting. The first answer I would give to a person asking me about this would be that this market was easy for a newbie in the past, but it is not anymore, and explain it is not just about shooting some photos, but technically sound images. 


 

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