Author Topic: Challenge (Read 7160 times)

crazychristina · « **on:** October 21, 2008, 07:32 »

I've set myself a challenge. Within a year I will have a photorealistic 3d model of a person accepted on istock. I've got a model coming over Saturday to take the pics as reference for the 3D modelling and for image mapping the resulting mesh, using the Ballistic book The Face and a GnomonWorkshop tutorial as references. I'll be modelling in Blender. I could use MakeHuman (a parametric figure modelling app) but want the basic modellling practice, especially if I end up rigging for animation. I'm actually pretty new to 3D modelling, but am pretty good at getting up to speed with computer applications (though Blender sure is, um, complex).

I posted a while ago that I think this kind of thing will make inroads into traditional stock photography soon. I might keep a record of progress on the web somewhere - I'll let you all know if I do so you can laugh at my petty attempts.

leaf · « **Reply #1 on:** October 21, 2008, 07:51 »

yeah, do keep us posted! I am interested to hear how it goes. I am slightly interested in this as well, although currently my time is focused on trying to learn illustrator.

GeoPappas · « **Reply #2 on:** October 21, 2008, 07:59 »

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to do.

Are you saying that you want to submit a 3D rendered image and try to see if it will pass for a real human model? That is, you won't tell the inspectors that it is a rendered image, and you want to see if it will be accepted as a human model and approved?

If so, are you planning on submitting a Model Release? If so who will sign it? You?

Or are you planning on telling the inspectors that it is a 3D rendered model and see if it is approved?

I searched IS for 3D rendered images of humans and found only two images:

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup/people/129363-marvin.php?id=129363

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup/people/178666-3d-render-b-w-girl.php?id=178666

crazychristina · « **Reply #3 on:** October 21, 2008, 08:10 »

As I'm shooting the model this weekend I'll get a release (and maybe upload some images for stock in the process). Not sure how I'll approach submitting the 3D render of the model, but I'll use the same release. Does it make a difference that I've done complex PP in Blender rather than simpler PP in Photoshop? The final image will be derived from the photoshoot either way.

I've had plenty of images PP'd in PS rejected. My aim is to produce an image of sufficiently high quality that it will pass inspection. I don't believe any image submitted to a stock agency is 'real' in any meaningful sense.

araminta · « **Reply #4 on:** October 21, 2008, 08:49 »

I've read the same Ballistic book, and I understand that you may fine it quite challenging and interesting!

But if you are new to modelling, good luck to you: this is a huge challenge as you have to understand that Ballistic's The Face is not the work of a single guy but of a team. Moreover, the final result as seen on the book cover is not photorealistic enough to pass the review IMHO if you try to pretend this is a true person (with a model release), and if you pass the review, it may be considered as a fraud as you are just lying, aren't you?

I've submitted myself some photo-realistic renders of a woman, but without the head (a lot simpler

) and without pretending to be a true photo... it does not sell very well

CofkoCof · « **Reply #5 on:** October 21, 2008, 08:58 »

I'll be interested to see how it goes. Like I said in the topic you mentioned: I don't see this becoming a standard since it takes a lot of time to:
1. make a model (you cannot use the same one all the time)
2. make the props
3. position the model (it takes me a few minutes and a few low res renders to position my character and check if everything is ok)
4. render the image (do you have a good enough computer?)

If you sum all from the above I think it'll take you a lot longer than with photos.

I think MR is needed for this kind of work (that is modeling based on photographies). It's the same with objects, modelling a ferrari and submiting it just because it's a 3d model isn't allowed.

Good luck with your work!

crazychristina · « **Reply #6 on:** October 21, 2008, 15:20 »

@araminta - why is a 3d render lying, any more than a retouched 2d image is? I've seen a professional retoucher alter a models appearance with Liquefy more than I intend to do with 3d models, and that was for advertising. My images will be of a real person, but processed in a non-traditional manner.

araminta · « **Reply #7 on:** October 22, 2008, 02:14 »

Well, this is an interesting question.

You may be the first one to post a 3D render with a MR... let's see how things happen

Keep us informed: I'm quite interested in your challenge.

jeancliclac · « **Reply #8 on:** October 22, 2008, 12:31 »

Looking at the number of sales it doesnt seems to be a very good business....

jean

Quote from: GeoPappas on October 21, 2008, 07:59

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to do.

Are you saying that you want to submit a 3D rendered image and try to see if it will pass for a real human model? That is, you won't tell the inspectors that it is a rendered image, and you want to see if it will be accepted as a human model and approved?

If so, are you planning on submitting a Model Release? If so who will sign it? You?

Or are you planning on telling the inspectors that it is a 3D rendered model and see if it is approved?

I searched IS for 3D rendered images of humans and found only two images:

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup/people/129363-marvin.php?id=129363

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup/people/178666-3d-render-b-w-girl.php?id=178666

crazychristina · « **Reply #9 on:** October 22, 2008, 16:09 »

OK, I've set up a blog to track progress

. Not much in it just yet. I've been reviewing the section in my reference on shooting a model for 3D reference. Mustn't forget to shoot the back of the head, just so I can get the ears right. The Ballistic book had the 3d.sk team do their photoshoot. I'm not that well set up - have to make do with two strobes and a few speedlights. What a pity my laptop was stolen

. Tethered shooting would be a real advantage here.

crazychristina · « **Reply #10 on:** October 24, 2008, 20:45 »

I've just done a shoot with a model to get the ball rolling. Details in the blog mentioned in the post above, for those interested.

crazychristina · « **Reply #11 on:** October 30, 2008, 15:04 »

I now have a recognizable result - mesh modeled and partly textured. Not quite to first draft stage (I need to complete the texture painting), but it shows where I'm heading. The render was from an angle that didn't match any of my original images. One motivation for doing this is that I can virtually reshoot from any angle with any lighting (in any context) once the model is done. I intend to rig for posing too, including facial rigging, but that's a long way off.

CofkoCof · « **Reply #12 on:** October 30, 2008, 15:12 »

Quote from: averil on October 30, 2008, 15:04

I now have a recognizable result - mesh modeled and partly textured. Not quite to first draft stage (I need to complete the texture painting), but it shows where I'm heading. The render was from an angle that didn't match any of my original images. One motivation for doing this is that I can virtually reshoot from any angle with any lighting (in any context) once the model is done. I intend to rig for posing too, including facial rigging, but that's a long way off.

Nice work. What tutorials are you following?

ATM I'm playing around with shaders to make those nice soft looking objects on white. Can't make it work

crazychristina · « **Reply #13 on:** October 30, 2008, 15:19 »

Quote from: CofkoCof on October 30, 2008, 15:12

Quote from: averil on October 30, 2008, 15:04
I now have a recognizable result - mesh modeled and partly textured. Not quite to first draft stage (I need to complete the texture painting), but it shows where I'm heading. The render was from an angle that didn't match any of my original images. One motivation for doing this is that I can virtually reshoot from any angle with any lighting (in any context) once the model is done. I intend to rig for posing too, including facial rigging, but that's a long way off.

Nice work. What tutorials are you following?

ATM I'm playing around with shaders to make those nice soft looking objects on white. Can't make it work

In my blog I've linked to the tutorials I'm using as reference down the right hand side. My initial inspiration was the Ballistic book Creative Essence: The Face, but I've supplemented that with a few others. Working out how to do projection mapping in Blender took some time, but that's sorted now.

crazychristina · « **Reply #14 on:** November 08, 2008, 12:05 »

I've started texture painting my second go at the mesh. I'm using the photos of the (human) model to do the texture painting, so even though my results are 3d renders, they are actually likenesses of the person I photographed.

Mark Evans on istock (their 3d lead) said such images are ok if they're model released. Like illustrations - if they're a likeness they need a release. I don't think I'll be getting my latest effort accepted, but the texture painting does start to add a dimension of reality to the work. The eyes haven't used image textures. On my todo list.

AVAVA · « **Reply #15 on:** November 08, 2008, 14:30 »

Avril,

Though there is probably not a market for what you are doing yet you are a visionary. You are seeing into tomorrow and you are preparing today. Educate yourself well my friend and don't worry about what anyone says you are on the right track if you are young and want to play on this field in 10 years from now, things will always change. Some of the biggest names in Macro stock are now spending a great deal of time learning CGI or having some of their staff learn. They have seen what it has done to the auto industry and they are looking a bit further down the road. It might not make you money today so you will still need to find an income support while you educate yourself but learning 3d and CGI is a great idea for any young image maker.

If I was thirty years younger and still had my teeth, by-gum I would be right there with you. Keep on learning and growing.

Best,
J

crazychristina · « **Reply #16 on:** November 08, 2008, 14:40 »

Hey AVAVA, wish I was 30 years younger too!! There's s good chance I'm older than you. Never let that get in the way of learning though. And thanks for the comments on my attitude to life

crazychristina · « **Reply #17 on:** November 10, 2008, 14:21 »

Current state of play. Next, the hair. And eyes of course. I put this on RB mainly for the interest of people who watch my stuff there.

crazychristina · « **Reply #18 on:** November 29, 2008, 15:20 »

A few people here have expressed interest in my progress with this little project. I've found a bit more time to work on it recently. The short hair is because I need to learn some hair styling skills before dealing with longer hair, even on a 3D model. I need a much faster processor, too, to start combing and styling hair in Blender. Larger renders require a lot more hair particles too, so I'm looking at a 64bit corei7 system to cope. Adding eyelashes helps the realism a bit, although I need to do some work on a more realistic eye. After that, some facial animation!

AVAVA · « **Reply #19 on:** November 29, 2008, 16:08 »

Do you have the ability to add a bit more hair to my head.

AVAVA

crazychristina · « **Reply #20 on:** November 29, 2008, 16:12 »

I can make the hair as long and as thick as I like, but then I need to actually style it (it starts by sticking straight out from the head). Blender has the tools for hair styling - comb, scissors, etc - but my poor computer can't cope, so both it and I need to upgrade before getting more 'stylish'.

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