Author Topic: What would you like in Micro stock? (Read 12449 times)

Jabber · « **on:** May 03, 2010, 04:50 »

For a VERY LONG TIME have I looked at, researched and read about this industry.

It seems that most contributors don't like this business because of what a few bullies are doing to it!
It also seems to me that, just like in the French Revolution, the power actually lies with the masses!
It also seems to me that there is no David around to stick it to Goliath!
It seems to me that this is about to change!

What would you like to see happen in this industry, and what would you do if you found it on offer?
Would you like to see both agency and contributor earning a fair bit of commission?
Would you like to see better selling prices?

Come on, tell me... coz what you don't know, is that I just might be able to do something about it!
And before you laugh it off, remember this...
1) Dr Martin Luther King Jr
2) Gandhi
3) Napoleon
4) Alexander the Great
5) jeepers creepers
6) Nelson Mandela
7) Jabber ??

All of them were just "one man". Their mark is FOREVER left on our history...

RT · « **Reply #1 on:** May 03, 2010, 05:27 »

Quote from: Jabber on May 03, 2010, 04:50

Come on, tell me... coz what you don't know, is that I just might be able to do something about it!

So you own Gettyimages?

chellyar · « **Reply #2 on:** May 03, 2010, 06:01 »

Quote from: Jabber on May 03, 2010, 04:50

7) Jabber ??

the hutt?

But seriously....

I'm sure we all know who the bullies are, but they are not a monopoly, and while a good number of smaller agencies are turning a profit and paying their contributors similar margins is there anything really that broke?

If we had a massive asymmetry in industry like we see in the desktop OS market (microsoft vs the rest) or there was the industry wide market fixing that seems to be in the pharmaceutical industry then we'd probably have real cause to rally behind someone, but I suspect you might wind up standing on a hill by yourself....

Just my 2c worth.

sharpshot · « **Reply #3 on:** May 03, 2010, 06:10 »

I think most of us would be pleased with a big increase in our earnings. It would be nice to get higher commissions but sites have tried that and failed.

I am sure someone will come along one day and make the method of selling our images to buyers much simpler and less costly but they will need to come up with a completely new idea. Just starting yet another site wont achieve anything, just look at all the failures over the past few years.

Jabber · « **Reply #4 on:** May 03, 2010, 06:38 »

I agree that another site might not be the thing. I also know that even when something is good for us, we tend to let it go, goz we dont like to change. I am all about the bottom dollar in the pocket of both the seller and buyer. Sellers need to realise that high prices stem the cash flow, and buyers need to realise that low prices bnkrupt the seller.

If I owned a stock agency, I would surely make sure that the seller, gets at least 50% of the sale price.

I come from a place whereI get to buy, sell and host images... I understand all three arguments! It is from this vantage point that I will operate from.

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #5 on:** May 03, 2010, 07:15 »

There was already a long thread in here about "what contributors would want". If you search a bit, you might be able to find it.

Of course, you'd just be in this because of your philanthropic nature, right?

Colette · « **Reply #6 on:** May 03, 2010, 08:21 »

Couldn't believe my eyes...!

I'm laughing for about half an hour now!
Never ever would I even think about it to start a topic this way!
But now I see: There's People and there's Jabbers.
Different kind of species I suppose...

Quote:
"1) Dr Martin Luther King Jr
2) Gandhi
3) Napoleon
4) Alexander the Great
5) jeepers creepers
6) Nelson Mandela
7) Jabber ?? (YES! JABBER! The greatest of them all!)
All of them were just "one man". Their mark is FOREVER left on our history..."

Yes indeed your mark is left on Microstock group's history!
Well, at least you need to choose a starting point! LOL! And I must say: You have a special sense of humor...

red · « **Reply #7 on:** May 03, 2010, 09:38 »

There are tons of posts here about the goods and bads, what people are looking for. If you are as powerful as you seem to think you are you would have done your research by reading the other threads before asking this question (which has been beat to death). Or, at least have your personal assistant do it.

cthoman · « **Reply #8 on:** May 03, 2010, 10:12 »

If I was going to pick one overall thing to regulate, it would probably be subs. I'd like to see a tiered system implemented for subs like the regular downloads (larger files cost more). I know I've mentioned this before, but that's my dead horse that I'm beating. I guess I need to come up with a catchy slogan for it like the "race to the bottom" people. Any suggestions?

Size specific subs? I always like alliteration, but it is kind of a tongue twister.

stockastic · « **Reply #9 on:** May 03, 2010, 10:53 »

1. Pricing tiers, at discretion of contributor. Some images do well as low-cost, high-volume; others have a niche, fewer buyers paying more.

2. Meaningful communication.

3. No marketing deals with shady 'partner' sites.

4. New microstocks with 'focus' on particular markets; i.e. business, model shots, objects, retro, whatever; instead of everyone selling all the same stuff but claiming to have more of it.

5. New microstocks that learn from the mistakes of the big 4, and don't build up a collection of millions of dull, repetitious, keyword-spammed images.

melastmohican · « **Reply #11 on:** May 03, 2010, 15:42 »

New distribution model. I wish there was a central repository for images and agencies could go there and pickup what they want but they will not get a content they would only link to it. This way if new agency with new strategy appears they can pick whatever type or quality of images they want and focus on marketing them. All they have to keep is metadata not files itself. Agencies do not have to spend money on storage. For contributors it would be one place to upload images. Also if they do not like agency they can block it from getting images with one click of the button.

stockastic · « **Reply #12 on:** May 03, 2010, 16:31 »

Quote from: melastmohican on May 03, 2010, 15:42

New distribution model. I wish there was a central repository for images and agencies could go there and pickup what they want but they will not get a content they would only link to it. This way if new agency with new strategy appears they can pick whatever type or quality of images they want and focus on marketing them. All they have to keep is metadata not files itself. Agencies do not have to spend money on storage. For contributors it would be one place to upload images. Also if they do not like agency they can block it from getting images with one click of the button.

This is something that might actually have a tiny chance of happening. A repository company would offer storage, which has value in itself, and an API which image sellers could use to access our images, with our permission. I very much like the idea of control, and not being held hostage by sites like Dreamstime with a 6-month lockin; or seeing my images shopped on fakey-looking 'partner' sites by Fotolia. Of course the microstocks would initially refulse to play along; but eventually they might be forced into cooperating.

This is also something that existing storage vendors (like Amazon S3) could offer as a value-added service.

stockastic · « **Reply #13 on:** May 03, 2010, 17:20 »

Quote from: jvoetsch on May 03, 2010, 15:24

Jabber, this is what we want to do over at http://www.imageenvision.com

The site looks interesting, but I'm not seeing anything on it about becoming a contributor...

melastmohican · « **Reply #14 on:** May 03, 2010, 17:29 »

Quote from: stockastic on May 03, 2010, 16:31

Quote from: melastmohican on May 03, 2010, 15:42
New distribution model. I wish there was a central repository for images and agencies could go there and pickup what they want but they will not get a content they would only link to it. This way if new agency with new strategy appears they can pick whatever type or quality of images they want and focus on marketing them. All they have to keep is metadata not files itself. Agencies do not have to spend money on storage. For contributors it would be one place to upload images. Also if they do not like agency they can block it from getting images with one click of the button.

This is something that might actually have a tiny chance of happening. A repository company would offer storage, which has value in itself, and an API which image sellers could use to access our images, with our permission. I very much like the idea of control, and not being held hostage by sites like Dreamstime with a 6-month lockin; or seeing my images shopped on fakey-looking 'partner' sites by Fotolia. Of course the microstocks would initially refulse to play along; but eventually they might be forced into cooperating.

This is also something that existing storage vendors (like Amazon S3) could offer as a value-added service.

This is of course a "dream" solution which is in favor of contributors and pushes agencies to the role of current partners. It may only happen if there is enough people not happy with current model and will somehow participate in developing new model. Alternatively somebody big like Google could step up and handle development cost and then would become paid repository administrator. Agencies would never like this model so they would not participate until they are forced to.

Jabber · « **Reply #15 on:** May 04, 2010, 04:38 »

Now, This is what I would like to see and hear!!!

The solutions you are coming up with, will most surely force agencies, who are nothing more than distributors of someone else's product, to come in line! But as it has been mentioned in this site as well, contributors will keep moaning and groaning about the current situation, but still submit their images to the very ones who trample on them...

I put it to you: This HAS TO stop and we MUST come up with a better solution in favour of the contributors! For now, I LOVE the idea of a central place for contributors to load their images and let agencies merely get the meta tags and thumbnails!! Can we make this work?

MicrostockExp · « **Reply #16 on:** May 04, 2010, 05:06 »

Huumm.. I can imagine structures like Isyndica be able to play this role in the future, why not ?

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #17 on:** May 04, 2010, 05:57 »

Quote from: Jabber on May 04, 2010, 04:38

I put it to you: This HAS TO stop and we MUST come up with a better solution in favour of the contributors! For now, I LOVE the idea of a central place for contributors to load their images and let agencies merely get the meta tags and thumbnails!! Can we make this work?

I'm sorry... you are?

Dreamframer · « **Reply #18 on:** May 04, 2010, 07:05 »

OK, we don't know who you are. Maybe you are just some kind of a freak, but who knows, maybe you can really do something, so I'll spend few words. It's just what first came on my mind:

1. Prices should stop going down, because images already became ridiculously cheap. I think images became cheap enough that everyone can afford them.
2. At least 50% of commission
3. Right to know who bought our images, like Fotolia used to do before, because there are many cases of misuse of pictures.
4. Better care for contributors.

RT · « **Reply #19 on:** May 04, 2010, 07:28 »

Quote from: Jabber on May 04, 2010, 04:38

The solutions you are coming up with, will most surely force agencies, who are nothing more than distributors of someone else's product, to come in line!

Absolutely, in fact I bet as we speak the management of all the major agencies are having contingency meetings to deal with these issues.

Dreamframer · « **Reply #20 on:** May 04, 2010, 07:39 »

Quote from: RT on May 04, 2010, 07:28

Quote from: Jabber on May 04, 2010, 04:38
The solutions you are coming up with, will most surely force agencies, who are nothing more than distributors of someone else's product, to come in line!

Absolutely, in fact I bet as we speak the management of all the major agencies are having contingency meetings to deal with these issues.

lol

Jabber, I appreciate your wish to help contributors, but you have to understand that we cannot trust someone who is hiding behind a nickname (jabber or any other), because everyone who is serious won't be afraid to tell us his own/her own real name.
Grown people are not afraid to tell who they are, especially when it comes to the business.
So, who you are really?

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #21 on:** May 04, 2010, 08:40 »

Regarding a central repository, I posted that back in December. You can see where it's gone from there

.

http://www.microstockgroup.com/new-sites-general/to-new-agencies-why-don%27t-you-download-our-pictures/msg127221/#msg127221

stockastic · « **Reply #22 on:** May 04, 2010, 11:28 »

Unfortunately a 'repository' would be an honor system. The agencies would need full-size images to inspect, and there'd be no way to stop them from retaining copies. They'd claim they were just "cacheing" the images, to improve download speed, etc., but basically we'd have to trust them. Just like we trust Fotolia today, when they assure us they're not letting their latest new 'partner' (hosted in a Moscow coffee shop) store full size images. Oh wait, they never really gave us that assurance... just some weasel-words that didn't make sense...

Jabber · « **Reply #23 on:** May 05, 2010, 02:26 »

Hiya!

well, all good things come to those who wait. Truth is, we all need a solution. I understand all 3 arguments in this industry (contributor, distributor and buyer) and I sympathise will all 3.

Fact remains that the industry is managed by the wrong people! I am involved in this business, as some of you are in more than one respect, and only reflect my own personal feelings. I mean speaking as a photographer, this is what I would like to see happen. But as a buyer, I must also warn that such a move in the industry could turn micro stock into an elite industry, making prices too high.

So the balance needs to be carefully looked at and managed in such a way that photographers dint get carried away with their prices, while at the same time caring for the distributor, (who by the way needs to add their own markup) and sparing a thought for the buyer who needs to pay a much higher price!

Also, keep in mind that a distributor has overheads to cover. photogs only submit their work and that is it, but the contributor needs to pay for marketing, hosting, and so on and so forth...

RT · « **Reply #24 on:** May 05, 2010, 04:18 »

Quote from: Jabber on May 05, 2010, 02:26

Hiya!

well, all good things come to those who wait. Truth is, we all need a solution. I understand all 3 arguments in this industry (contributor, distributor and buyer) and I sympathise will all 3.

Fact remains that the industry is managed by the wrong people! I am involved in this business, as some of you are in more than one respect, and only reflect my own personal feelings. I mean speaking as a photographer, this is what I would like to see happen. But as a buyer, I must also warn that such a move in the industry could turn micro stock into an elite industry, making prices too high.

So the balance needs to be carefully looked at and managed in such a way that photographers dint get carried away with their prices, while at the same time caring for the distributor, (who by the way needs to add their own markup) and sparing a thought for the buyer who needs to pay a much higher price!

Also, keep in mind that a distributor has overheads to cover. photogs only submit their work and that is it, but the contributor needs to pay for marketing, hosting, and so on and so forth...

So what exactly was the point of your initial post, or any of the others if at last you've suddenly realised that there are three parties involved in this industry and each wants the best value out of it?

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #25 on:** May 05, 2010, 05:19 »

Quote from: RT on May 05, 2010, 04:18

So what exactly was the point of your initial post, or any of the others if at last you've suddenly realised that there are three parties involved in this industry and each wants the best value out of it?

Perhaps we are privy to his current inner dialogue or something?

FD · « **Reply #26 on:** May 05, 2010, 11:23 »

Quote from: Jabber on May 05, 2010, 02:26

Also, keep in mind that a distributor has overheads to cover. photogs only submit their work and that is it, but the contributor needs to pay for marketing, hosting, and so on and so forth...

Yes and a photog gets all his stuff for free. I roam around garbage bins to find props, my cam was a gift from aunt Zenoby and I process my shots on an old Commodore 64 I found on the attic. Models don't need payment since they are so happy to see themselves on real sites, not just facebook. And time, well, that's an endless commodity, and so on and so forth...

RacePhoto · « **Reply #27 on:** May 05, 2010, 15:32 »

Quote from: FD-amateur on May 05, 2010, 11:23

Quote from: Jabber on May 05, 2010, 02:26
Also, keep in mind that a distributor has overheads to cover. photogs only submit their work and that is it, but the contributor needs to pay for marketing, hosting, and so on and so forth...
Yes and a photog gets all his stuff for free. I roam around garbage bins to find props, my cam was a gift from aunt Zenoby and I process my shots on an old Commodore 64 I found on the attic. Models don't need payment since they are so happy to see themselves on real sites, not just facebook. And time, well, that's an endless commodity, and so on and so forth...

Say Hi to Aunt Zenoby, she's wonderful. I find my props in resale shops, (on curbs and in trash bins) don't shoot models, use old computers from rummage sales or friends cast offs and edit with Irfanview and Paint.Net. Why shouldn't we work for nothing so the buyers get a good deal, the companies can make money and we can compete for the lowest payback in the Race To The Bottom.

For everyone else who doesn't have a rich, generous Aunt and free everything like us...

The real problem as we all know is as simple as supply and demand. (and individual greed) People are working for almost nothing, because that's all the agencies pay now. The reason they pay almost nothing is they have competition undercutting them for prices. (and because photographers are willing to work for nothing!) Every time we contribute to a new site that offers subs and low prices, or 10c per upload introductory offer (greed) we are competing with ourselves and driving prices down!

Real simple, we get low payback for our investment and work, because the competition (other photographers) are willing to sell out and take low pay or pump up any site that will send the $50 for uploading 500 photos.

New money sites, will sell us out for 10c a download and who's giving them the photos? People who are willing to shoot their business and income in the foot, to get a stinking one time bonus for uploading.

Oh yes, the winners in this whole thing are the buyers who get better and better images, for lower and lower prices.

cascoly · « **Reply #28 on:** May 05, 2010, 18:23 »

what's your point or is this your essay in the monty python redundant statement of the bleedin' obvious contest?

everyone concedes the prices are low, and most people would like more $. but nothing in this thread, esp from OP adds anything. indies or even large players are not going to affect the market since it's already too big. if all the photogs on this forum deleted their portfolios tomorrow, who would notice?

s

Jabber · « **Reply #29 on:** May 06, 2010, 02:13 »

This also does not help when you guys attack each other. No argument can be won, and we cant debate when we are at each others throats! The point is that I am trying to get an answer! Like I said before, I am a photog myself! I know all about what goes into my own work. So don't for one moment assume that I am saying that a contributor has no expense them selves!

I am trying to get a workable solution to the problem! Question: Why is it that when someone tries to fix things, it is the very one who will benefit from it, who are the ones that does all the attacking?! People, instead of fighting with each other, why don't we put our heads together to solve this issue?

sharpshot · « **Reply #30 on:** May 06, 2010, 02:30 »

Quote from: Jabber on May 05, 2010, 02:26

..Fact remains that the industry is managed by the wrong people!..

I disagree. There are some that are becoming too greedy but there are people that I think are doing a good job. Alamy pay their contributors a decent commission and put most of their profits in to medical research. Some sites pay us low commissions but they make up for that with high sales volume. I do think that improvements can be made but I doubt there is anyone here that could run a site better than alamy and the top micro sites.

ap · « **Reply #31 on:** May 06, 2010, 02:52 »

Quote from: sharpshot on May 06, 2010, 02:30

Alamy pay their contributors a decent commission and put most of their profits in to medical research.

um, excuse me? i guess i'm not keeping up with alamy news. are they a quasi non-profit or is this just a side thing? or are they really a biotechnology company hiding behind the facade of stock. in any case, not only quite interesting but certainly worth supporting if the former.

qwerty · « **Reply #32 on:** May 06, 2010, 03:44 »

Quote from: sjlocke on May 04, 2010, 05:57

Quote from: Jabber on May 04, 2010, 04:38
I put it to you: This HAS TO stop and we MUST come up with a better solution in favour of the contributors! For now, I LOVE the idea of a central place for contributors to load their images and let agencies merely get the meta tags and thumbnails!! Can we make this work?

I'm sorry... you are?

My guess oldhand,macrosaur,persus,oldhippie

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #33 on:** May 06, 2010, 05:07 »

Quote from: Jabber on May 06, 2010, 02:13

This also does not help when you guys attack each other. No argument can be won, and we cant debate when we are at each others throats! The point is that I am trying to get an answer! Like I said before, I am a photog myself! I know all about what goes into my own work. So don't for one moment assume that I am saying that a contributor has no expense them selves!

I am trying to get a workable solution to the problem! Question: Why is it that when someone tries to fix things, it is the very one who will benefit from it, who are the ones that does all the attacking?! People, instead of fighting with each other, why don't we put our heads together to solve this issue?

Because "we"'ve all talked about this before. "We" in quotes, because you just decided to stop by last week and start up something we've already repeatedly discussed, for whatever reason of your own, without any research into "our" past here.

Also, posting anonymously puts you in the "Eh, whatever" side of the group.

FD · « **Reply #34 on:** May 06, 2010, 05:37 »

Quote from: qwerty on May 06, 2010, 03:44

My guess oldhand,macrosaur,persus,oldhippie

My bet is on Perseus. Where can I claim my iPod?

qwerty · « **Reply #35 on:** May 06, 2010, 05:59 »

Quote from: FD-amateur on May 06, 2010, 05:37

Quote from: qwerty on May 06, 2010, 03:44
My guess oldhand,macrosaur,persus,oldhippie
My bet is on Perseus. Where can I claim my iPod?

I never said there was a prize !

Eireann · « **Reply #36 on:** May 06, 2010, 07:26 »

I know this thread is not to be taken seriously, but this is what I think we need.

An international organization invested with the legal authority to control prices, commissions and ethicism of the agencies.
I would be willing to help fund it.

Whoever manages to set such a project up, stands in for glory, power and money.
And unlike Luther King hopefully a longer life

But I guess, for now, this is only wishful thinking.

lisafx · « **Reply #37 on:** May 06, 2010, 18:13 »

Quote from: qwerty on May 06, 2010, 03:44

My guess oldhand,macrosaur,persus,oldhippie...

...batman, hali, puravida, tanjomast510,Albert Martin, etc., etc.

The list keeps growing, but it's always the same old nonsense

cascoly · « **Reply #38 on:** May 07, 2010, 01:13 »

if it mattered we could run a textual analysis of new-unimproved-troll vs old-ignored-troll...

s

cascoly · « **Reply #39 on:** May 07, 2010, 01:20 »

Quote from: Eireann on May 06, 2010, 07:26

....
An international organization invested with the legal authority to control prices, commissions and ethicism of the agencies.
I would be willing to help fund it.

Whoever manages to set such a project up, stands in for glory, power and money.
And unlike Luther King hopefully a longer life

But I guess, for now, this is only wishful thinking.

there are things that can be done by a group of freelancers - in the 90's i was involved with several successful groups for independents such as the game developers conference, assoc of shareware professionals and Edu Software Co-op -- they didn't set prices, but they helped newcomers while also being able to contract w vendors; one big benefit was having a forum much like this one, which was more novel at that time. we even helped design the industry rating system for video games, countering Lieberman's drastic proposals [which he made while getting funds from sony]

s

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Author Topic: What would you like in Micro stock? (Read 12449 times)

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