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Microstock Photography Forum - General => General Stock Discussion => Topic started by: angelawaye on March 20, 2017, 15:12
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I never know what to say when I get emails from potential customers for custom work and the first they they say is "I don't have a big budget"...
Any tips or suggestions on how to answer? I don't want to sound rude but it seems so many people "have a small budget" for photography/graphic design work. Some requests are so insulting, I don't even reply back.
Do people assume because you sell micro, you will accept "pennies". I don't know ... Any thoughts?
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I've stopped responding to these people. I used to send estimates, and then of course i would never hear back from them. Waste of time. (Same thing with buyout requests from Dreamstime, in my experience.)
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I always reply and point people to where they can license my work (usually putting my own site first, but listing other agencies offering it). If someone has been nice enough to include a compliment, I thank them. Depending on how they word things I point out how inexpensive the licenses are. If they ask for a freebie in return for photo credit, they get something like the following (from just such a request):
"If you mean you'd like to use it for free, I'm sorry, but that's not an option. I sell my stock images through a number of sites (list them here) but I don't give them away.
Considering you don't have to buy a long term subscription or a pile of credits to license an image, it's never been easier to license just one.
If it was a charity looking for it as a donation, I'd decide based on whether I supported the charity or not.
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She wants "custom" work/photography so if I created the images for her and sold them as stock, she may say she owns the ideas which opens a can of worms I think ...
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I'd always reply no what they say. Just quote them your hourly rate or what you think you're work is worth. It could be a negotiation tactic, because nobody wants to spend more than they have to. If they are unwilling to meet your rate, so be it.
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"Tell me your budget, and I'll tell you what I can provide."
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"Tell me your budget, and I'll tell you what I can provide."
I LIKE IT! Short, simple and to the point.
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Everybody gets the same quotes and I try to be polite. I usually see the same types of jobs over and over, so I probably could make a form letter. I've written the same email so many times though that it is pretty much memorized in my head anyway.
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Yeah, they can tell you what they need and you can tell them what it will cost, or they can tell you what their budget is and you can tell them what they can have.
Always wait to hear what the budget is as well before you ditch them... one person's big budget is another persons small budget, and vice versa.
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My favorites are posts for freelance design work with the caveat..."If you know what you are doing, this is a very simple job." And the budget is $5. I laugh and move on.
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It already cost me $5 of my time just to answer this Email. I can't run a business if I supply an image, with license papers, and delivery, for your price offer.
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Last week I saw a job posting on a freelance website; someone asked for a 60 seconds, detailed, technical 3D animation of heavy machinery. Budget: $200.
How about a storyboard drawn on a napkin?
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That's positively generous compared to some postings I've seen!
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when you have free time, lower your prices. when you are busy, raise your prices.
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I'm trying to imagine a scenario where I'd ever say this to anyone.
"I'd like a burger, but I don't have a big budget." "I'd like a bespoke suit, but I don't have a big budget." "I'd like my hair cut and colored, but I don't have a big budget." "I'd like two tons of gravel, but I don't have a big budget." "I'd like your company to mow my lawn, but I don't have a big budget." "I'd like you to cure this infection, but I don't have big budget."
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I'm trying to imagine a scenario where I'd ever say this to anyone.
"I'd like a burger, but I don't have a big budget." "I'd like a bespoke suit, but I don't have a big budget." "I'd like my hair cut and colored, but I don't have a big budget." "I'd like two tons of gravel, but I don't have a big budget." "I'd like your company to mow my lawn, but I don't have a big budget." "I'd like you to cure this infection, but I don't have big budget."
Replies:
I hope you dont mind your stomach growling, i hope you like hand me downs, i hope you dont look in the mirror, i hope you like dirt, i hope you dont mind gangrene
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I don't have a big budget?
Well they shouldn't be in business.
Walk away
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I don't have a big budget?
Well they shouldn't be in business.
Walk away
Does everyone have to have a big budget to be in business? I think the last couple of comments are quite representative of the 'us vs. them' mentality that I often see when it comes to freelancers and clients, which probably isn't doing anyone any favours.
A) It's custom work, so the client doesn't know how much it will cost before you tell them. If it was gravel or suits, then there would be a set, advertised price... but the client may not know the freelancers rate or how much work will be involved.
B) This was used in the opening of the email, before prices were discussed. If the OP told the client the price and then they said they didn't have a big budget, that would be slightly different.
C) As it was used in the beginning of the email, we have no way to know how 'big' that budget is without discussing it further. It could be $50 for a one day shoot or it could be $5000 for a one day shoot.
D) It's hard to tell exactly what the client is trying to get across by saying that. It could be "I don't have a big budget - so you will do this work for me at less than your normal rate". If that's the case, feel free to walk away. It's just as possible that he might be saying "I don't have a big budget - so I'll completely understand if you can't take on the project". Hard to tell from the first line of an email.
E) Unless he is the "so you will do this work for me at less than your normal rate" guy, then what can it hurt to hear what he has to say? You're the expert, you know what works, the client might think he needs more than he does, or something different than what he thinks he needs. Speak to him, see what he's looking to achieve, maybe you can find a solution that solves the client's problem, but you still get your normal rate, or higher.
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It's a chronic thing that happens in the arts, and I think we're getting fed up with it. Or at least i am. People seems to attach no value to art or photography, as if the work just appears from thin air. "I have a small budget" or "I'll give you exposure"..I'm trying to imagine saying that to my vet when I bring my dog in for her very expensive checkup and echocardiogram this week.
Do you call your doctor for an appointment, not knowing what tests she'll need to run or how much they'll cost, and tell her you have a small budget? First thing, when you call?
What's the point of saying it except to pressure the person on the other end into lowering their rates for you? Otherwise you'd just say "I like your work, can you gve me an estimate for x?"
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I never know what to say when I get emails from potential customers for custom work and the first they they say is "I don't have a big budget"...
Any tips or suggestions on how to answer? I don't want to sound rude but it seems so many people "have a small budget" for photography/graphic design work. Some requests are so insulting, I don't even reply back.
Do people assume because you sell micro, you will accept "pennies". I don't know ... Any thoughts?
People understand very well (childish) analogies…
So:
"If you have the budget to buy an Aston Martin, buy an Aston Martin. If you have not the budget to buy an Aston Martin, buy a tricycle…"
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It's a chronic thing that happens in the arts, and I think we're getting fed up with it. Or at least i am. People seems to attach no value to art or photography, as if the work just appears from thin air. "I have a small budget" or "I'll give you exposure"..I'm trying to imagine saying that to my vet when I bring my dog in for her very expensive checkup and echocardiogram this week.
Do you call your doctor for an appointment, not knowing what tests she'll need to run or how much they'll cost, and tell her you have a small budget? First thing, when you call?
What's the point of saying it except to pressure the person on the other end into lowering their rates for you? Otherwise you'd just say "I like your work, can you gve me an estimate for x?"
Happens a lot in UK with small bands doing live music on "try out" basis etc.
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Last time people, which state that they don't have a budget, but want a photographer to come to them for a session and then do heavy retouching, started to reference to companies which provide photography services for free. All these companies don't have photography as a main business, but ready to invest small for them money, hiring students or rotate trials. It is already in many heads here that imagery should be free, but none of these people will provide their time for free. I had several calls in enough aggressive tone, that i have no right to refuse a service, like other service providers in electricity, water etc. I have the right. Note, they don't even think to have for free a location, models, stylists, and of course, products, transport, printing etc. Only photographer or graphic designer. There are some more professions which are under the same pressure, but much less, no comparison.
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It's a chronic thing that happens in the arts, and I think we're getting fed up with it. Or at least i am. People seems to attach no value to art or photography, as if the work just appears from thin air. "I have a small budget" or "I'll give you exposure"..I'm trying to imagine saying that to my vet when I bring my dog in for her very expensive checkup and echocardiogram this week.
Do you call your doctor for an appointment, not knowing what tests she'll need to run or how much they'll cost, and tell her you have a small budget? First thing, when you call?
What's the point of saying it except to pressure the person on the other end into lowering their rates for you? Otherwise you'd just say "I like your work, can you gve me an estimate for x?"
No matter the reason, my rule is to always stay polite, even when people try to negotiate a reduced price.
To put it in perspective: stores and supermarkets try to get customers by providing reduced prices on clothing or shoes or handbags or food. This is no different. It's part of our business, due to heavy competition. Stick to your own prices and only accept it when you think the deal is good.
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They are entitled to try and negotiate you down, just don't give in.
I also always stay polite and say something like "sorry I need to price based on what I will be making working for other customers or creating work for my stock portfolio".
They can't really argue with that as it's making it clear that you wont be sitting on your hands if you don't get their job, just doing another job. Whatever they are offering has to be more than or equal to the alternative.
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Does everyone have to have a big budget to be in business? I think the last couple of comments are quite representative of the 'us vs. them' mentality that I often see when it comes to freelancers and clients, which probably isn't doing anyone any favours.
A) It's custom work, so the client doesn't know how much it will cost before you tell them. If it was gravel or suits, then there would be a set, advertised price... but the client may not know the freelancers rate or how much work will be involved.
No, everyone doesnt have to have a big budget. But I don't care what part of the world you are in...doing any kind of job for $5 is just ridiculous, especially when not for a repeat client. I can't read thru the job description, download files, and write the job ticket for $5! And when someone in the US expects to pay that for any kind of work from a freelancer living in the US, then I guess I will be dying a pauper because i am willing to bet that person expecting to pay that makes a whole lot of money themself and would never dream of accepting $5 for their work. Think micro agencies aka greedy ba$tards.
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They are entitled to try and negotiate you down, just don't give in.
I also always stay polite and say something like "sorry I need to price based on what I will be making working for other customers or creating work for my stock portfolio".
They can't really argue with that as it's making it clear that you wont be sitting on your hands if you don't get their job, just doing another job. Whatever they are offering has to be more than or equal to the alternative.
Really? Entitled? I have been in business for a lot of years in graphic design and I dont ever recall haggling over my price. I set my prices according to what I need to make and keep them in line with average pricing for my area. If a client asks for a price, I give them one. If the numbers are too far out of their budget, they are free to go elsewhere. No, I dont expect to haggle. Haggling isnt a typical way of doing business in the US, otherwise we could haggle for the cost of our groceries and clothes at the department store.
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A simple...'what budget did you have in mind?'
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All depends on what the job is, is it going to be good portfolio stuff? can sell seconds as stock? they are fun people to work with? can they give you product in return?
If so give them a bit of a discount
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Discount? When they speak about their low budget, they start discussion from prices which already will not cover any expense of a photographer. Example: call to shoot a portrait of a baby in client's house. They proposed 12 euro (!!!) telling that it is good for you because photo from machine on railway station is 6-8 euro. Polite "bon journée madame, we cannot accept your order".
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Does everyone have to have a big budget to be in business? I think the last couple of comments are quite representative of the 'us vs. them' mentality that I often see when it comes to freelancers and clients, which probably isn't doing anyone any favours.
A) It's custom work, so the client doesn't know how much it will cost before you tell them. If it was gravel or suits, then there would be a set, advertised price... but the client may not know the freelancers rate or how much work will be involved.
No, everyone doesnt have to have a big budget. But I don't care what part of the world you are in...doing any kind of job for $5 is just ridiculous, especially when not for a repeat client. I can't read thru the job description, download files, and write the job ticket for $5! And when someone in the US expects to pay that for any kind of work from a freelancer living in the US, then I guess I will be dying a pauper because i am willing to bet that person expecting to pay that makes a whole lot of money themself and would never dream of accepting $5 for their work. Think micro agencies aka greedy ba$tards.
I didn't realise that "I don't have a big budget" translates to exactly five US Dollars. I feel stupid now, sorry. Do you have a handy chart I can refer to so I don't make that mistake again?
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Does everyone have to have a big budget to be in business? I think the last couple of comments are quite representative of the 'us vs. them' mentality that I often see when it comes to freelancers and clients, which probably isn't doing anyone any favours.
A) It's custom work, so the client doesn't know how much it will cost before you tell them. If it was gravel or suits, then there would be a set, advertised price... but the client may not know the freelancers rate or how much work will be involved.
No, everyone doesnt have to have a big budget. But I don't care what part of the world you are in...doing any kind of job for $5 is just ridiculous, especially when not for a repeat client. I can't read thru the job description, download files, and write the job ticket for $5! And when someone in the US expects to pay that for any kind of work from a freelancer living in the US, then I guess I will be dying a pauper because i am willing to bet that person expecting to pay that makes a whole lot of money themself and would never dream of accepting $5 for their work. Think micro agencies aka greedy ba$tards.
I didn't realise that "I don't have a big budget" translates to exactly five US Dollars. I feel stupid now, sorry. Do you have a handy chart I can refer to so I don't make that mistake again?
Wow. Seriously? You sound like one of those clients that must expect to pay $5 since you are being so defensive.
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Last time I had one of those it was from a company preparing a video for a funeral and they wanted a lower price for a clip on pond5. What I wanted to ask them was if they were doing it for a lower price themselves. Instead I told them that I thought my prices on p5 were very reasonable but that if they wanted something cheaper the minimum amount that would be worth my while was X. Never heard from them again, as I expected.
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Does everyone have to have a big budget to be in business? I think the last couple of comments are quite representative of the 'us vs. them' mentality that I often see when it comes to freelancers and clients, which probably isn't doing anyone any favours.
A) It's custom work, so the client doesn't know how much it will cost before you tell them. If it was gravel or suits, then there would be a set, advertised price... but the client may not know the freelancers rate or how much work will be involved.
No, everyone doesnt have to have a big budget. But I don't care what part of the world you are in...doing any kind of job for $5 is just ridiculous, especially when not for a repeat client. I can't read thru the job description, download files, and write the job ticket for $5! And when someone in the US expects to pay that for any kind of work from a freelancer living in the US, then I guess I will be dying a pauper because i am willing to bet that person expecting to pay that makes a whole lot of money themself and would never dream of accepting $5 for their work. Think micro agencies aka greedy ba$tards.
I didn't realise that "I don't have a big budget" translates to exactly five US Dollars. I feel stupid now, sorry. Do you have a handy chart I can refer to so I don't make that mistake again?
Wow. Seriously? You sound like one of those clients that must expect to pay $5 since you are being so defensive.
I'm putting forward the possibility that if somebody says they don't have a big budget... it doesn't automatically mean they are an evil, manipulative, and abusive potential client.
If somebody wants to pay you $5 for a bunch of work that would cost several times more than that, then that's a different matter entirely, and i would agree with you... but you seem to be the only person that mentioned $5.
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I'm trying to imagine a scenario where I'd ever say this to anyone.
"I'd like a burger, but I don't have a big budget." "I'd like a bespoke suit, but I don't have a big budget." "I'd like my hair cut and colored, but I don't have a big budget." "I'd like two tons of gravel, but I don't have a big budget." "I'd like your company to mow my lawn, but I don't have a big budget." "I'd like you to cure this infection, but I don't have big budget."
Couldn't have said it better myself!. You took the words right out of my mouth.
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Here is my take on this and I've only been asked once if I could lower my price and I actually did and it was for three clips and the lady was very nice in asking and I obliged that one time.
In general, why this industry? Why are we different and expected to work for less or at a loss?. The trades have got it right, the rates are the rates and there is no discussion.
My mechanic would be insulted and tell me so to my face if I asked for a discount, no store I shop at would give me a discount except for an ongoing sale price but I would also feel embarrassed to ask for a deal, if the product or service is more than I can afford I simply do without.
I needed some web development work done and I asked someone and was told about $40/hr, I couldn't afford it but I never thought of asking that person to lower their price, that would be insulting, they are a skilled trade, WE photo and video people are a skilled trade and we have to start acting like one and that starts with the pricing.
I had someone offer me work for "the exposure" and the chance of future paying work, I simply declined and told them to try someone else, sorry I don't do that free work. "oh but it would be great exposure" he said, I said no thanks, I'm sure someone else needs the exposure. Totally could tell he had tried and failed to get free work from others.
One customer told me she could not pay and if I didn't want to do it she would get her kid to shoot it with his iphone, I said that's probably a better deal for you then, no problem and walked away.