Author Topic: How much is the keyword order relevant? (Read 9409 times)

porpeller · « **on:** March 23, 2014, 10:45 »

Hi! does someone know which agencies use keyword order relevance in their search algorithms? and which is the weight of the keyword order among the other factors?

I use lightroom for managing my workflow and, as i learned, there is no way to stop lightroom rearranging in alphabetical order the kw i write in.

Thanks in advance!

pancaketom · « **Reply #1 on:** March 23, 2014, 12:38 »

DT puts them in alphabetical order and splits multi-word keywords.

I am pretty sure I've heard the first 7 matter for FT, but I could be wrong.

I don't know for the others.

ShadySue · « **Reply #2 on:** March 23, 2014, 13:38 »

iS used to say it didn't matter.
A few weeks ago, without any announcement or explanation that I saw, they said on upload that keywords should be listed 'in order of importance'.
However, as their system seems to reorder files on arrival in their database (or still did the last time I uploaded), I have no idea whether or how much it matters, or might matter in future.

porpeller · « **Reply #3 on:** March 23, 2014, 14:31 »

Quote from: ShadySue on March 23, 2014, 13:38

iS used to say it didn't matter.
A few weeks ago, without any announcement or explanation that I saw, they said on upload that keywords should be listed 'in order of importance'.
However, as their system seems to reorder files on arrival in their database (or still did the last time I uploaded), I have no idea whether or how much it matters, or might matter in future.

yeah, i know about Fotolia... but is a pain for me to reorder the kw after uploading or with another software other than lightroom... i'm wondering if is worth it

porpeller · « **Reply #4 on:** March 23, 2014, 14:59 »

the strange fact is that my images are well positioned on fotolia with kw in alphabetical order, but not on istock

ShadySue · « **Reply #5 on:** March 23, 2014, 15:14 »

Quote from: porpeller on March 23, 2014, 14:59

the strange fact is that my images are well positioned on fotolia with kw in alphabetical order, but not on istock

Most new files have been doa on iStock for a long time now.

rimglow · « **Reply #6 on:** March 23, 2014, 15:21 »

Very important on Alamy.

"In order to return the most relevant images to customers, there are three keyword fields carrying different weights – Essential (50 characters), Main (300 characters) Comprehensive (856). The search engine views each Keyword field in descending significance with the Essential keyword field having the greatest relevance."

pancaketom · « **Reply #7 on:** March 23, 2014, 16:11 »

Quote from: rimglow on March 23, 2014, 15:21

Very important on Alamy.

"In order to return the most relevant images to customers, there are three keyword fields carrying different weights – Essential (50 characters), Main (300 characters) Comprehensive (856). The search engine views each Keyword field in descending significance with the Essential keyword field having the greatest relevance."

Do they care about the actual order within the separate fields? I seem to recall somewhere reading that if the words were next to each other they would be ranked higher in a search for those 2 words. eg it the keywords are "hand high five" that would rank higher for a search for "high five" then if the keywords were "high hand five".

Ron · « **Reply #8 on:** March 23, 2014, 16:21 »

I believe you can use se heirarchical keywords, alphabetical within higher level keyword, in Lightroom.

Example:

New York
Buffalo
New York City
Rochester
Pennsylvania
Altoona
Erie
Philadelphia
Reading

ShadySue · « **Reply #9 on:** March 23, 2014, 16:34 »

Quote from: pancaketom on March 23, 2014, 16:11

Quote from: rimglow on March 23, 2014, 15:21
Very important on Alamy.

"In order to return the most relevant images to customers, there are three keyword fields carrying different weights – Essential (50 characters), Main (300 characters) Comprehensive (856). The search engine views each Keyword field in descending significance with the Essential keyword field having the greatest relevance."

Do they care about the actual order within the separate fields? I seem to recall somewhere reading that if the words were next to each other they would be ranked higher in a search for those 2 words. eg it the keywords are "hand high five" that would rank higher for a search for "high five" then if the keywords were "high hand five".

They do say that, and to be honest, I haven't seen many totally bizarre combinations of any word from any field recently, though I did in the past.

Beppe Grillo · « **Reply #10 on:** March 24, 2014, 00:41 »

Quote from: ShadySue on March 23, 2014, 13:38

iS used to say it didn't matter.
A few weeks ago, without any announcement or explanation that I saw, they said on upload that keywords should be listed 'in order of importance'.
However, as their system seems to reorder files on arrival in their database (or still did the last time I uploaded), I have no idea whether or how much it matters, or might matter in future.

Difficult to say.
But if DeepMeta allows to order/reorder the keywords it should be a reason for it, no?

Harvepino · « **Reply #11 on:** March 24, 2014, 03:02 »

Sorry, don't have a link at hand, but some time ago I saw blogpost where some guy tried to reorder keywords by importance for part of his portfolio on FT to see if it has impact on sales. I remember he hasn't found a proof that it would help... no higher sales, not significantly more views. But it would obviously require much wider testing to come up with definite answer.

I noticed some authors on SS have a habit of moving one or two most important keywords to the front. Anyone knows if this helps at SS?

Steveball · « **Reply #12 on:** March 24, 2014, 05:23 »

I changed the keyword order for my entire portfolio on Fotolia last year and no change in sales. Not conclusive proof but still 3 days wasted!

ShadySue · « **Reply #13 on:** March 24, 2014, 06:30 »

Quote from: Beppe Grillo on March 24, 2014, 00:41

Quote from: ShadySue on March 23, 2014, 13:38
iS used to say it didn't matter.
A few weeks ago, without any announcement or explanation that I saw, they said on upload that keywords should be listed 'in order of importance'.
However, as their system seems to reorder files on arrival in their database (or still did the last time I uploaded), I have no idea whether or how much it matters, or might matter in future.

Difficult to say.
But if DeepMeta allows to order/reorder the keywords it should be a reason for it, no?

You'd think, maybe they had a plan to do something down the line.
As we know, 'should' and 'what happens' often are disconnected at iS.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #14 on:** March 24, 2014, 10:03 »

Alamy: word proximity and order does matter. At least the FAQ says so.

But since Alamy pretty much reads nothing on upload, but Location and Comprehensive, (Description is not searched, artists name is not searched) unless you have the Lightroom Plugin, not much difference.

You will next need to enter or edit most of the data manually. So Alamy is a case by itself.

Microstock, some places re-order the words, and others it seems to make no difference.

What worries me more (and some people don't bother to address this) is best match by number of matching words out of TOTAL keywords.

When people have 80 keywords and two match .025%, they are farther down the search than someone with 10 keywords and two match 20%. Only one of the possible search parameters, but it sure wouldn't help?

And then people wonder why they are way down the search all of a sudden? Relevancy just went through the floor. (IF that's used...)

Quote from: ShadySue on March 23, 2014, 16:34

Quote from: pancaketom on March 23, 2014, 16:11
Quote from: rimglow on March 23, 2014, 15:21
Very important on Alamy.

"In order to return the most relevant images to customers, there are three keyword fields carrying different weights – Essential (50 characters), Main (300 characters) Comprehensive (856). The search engine views each Keyword field in descending significance with the Essential keyword field having the greatest relevance."

Do they care about the actual order within the separate fields? I seem to recall somewhere reading that if the words were next to each other they would be ranked higher in a search for those 2 words. eg it the keywords are "hand high five" that would rank higher for a search for "high five" then if the keywords were "high hand five".
They do say that, and to be honest, I haven't seen many totally bizarre combinations of any word from any field recently, though I did in the past.

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Author Topic: How much is the keyword order relevant? (Read 9409 times)

porpeller

pancaketom

ShadySue

porpeller

porpeller

ShadySue

rimglow

pancaketom

Ron

ShadySue

Beppe Grillo

Harvepino

Steveball

ShadySue

Uncle Pete

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