MicrostockGroup
Microstock Photography Forum - General => Off Topic => Topic started by: JetCityImage on February 24, 2022, 11:36
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Already stock markets are crashing, oil prices are rocketing up and COVID is still in the mix.
Recession next?
Ugh.
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Honestly could give a **** about sales with regards to that. Just worried about the poor people on the ground in Ukraine and possible enlarging of the war. Really puts things in perspective.
Don’t want to say thoughts and prayers, but sometimes that’s all you can give...
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Can't spend your 10 cent sales in a war zone wasteland ::)
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This is a good example of "shoot where you are with what you have as best you can."
Any decent photographer who happens to live in Ukraine could make a killing (so to speak) shooting editorial images right now. Assuming they survive their encounters with Russian rockets, tanks, and troops.
But for the rest of us, Just Another Photographer has it absolutely right. The soldiers (both Ukrainian and Russian) who will die and the Ukrainian civiliians who are now forced into refugee status to avoid being killed or captured and brutalized are the ones we should focus on (so to speak). Whatever lost income may result from this unfortunate situation is a minor concern in the grand scheme of things.
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Already stock markets are crashing, oil prices are rocketing up and COVID is still in the mix.
Recession next?
Ugh.
Putin enjoys sowing misery and chaos. It's the one thing he does very well.
So now he's having his way with the whole world, spreading misery and chaos everywhere, not just in Ukraine (although for sure they are getting the worst of it).
I'm sure he's loving it.
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Something has to be done at this point, I just hope someone doesn't press the red button.
Seriously don't give a f...k about sales now.
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Who cares, people are dying, this 'Will the Russia/Ukraine war affect sales?' post is ridiculous.
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Who cares, people are dying, this 'Will the Russia/Ukraine war affect sales?' post is ridiculous.
Unless you can do anything about the people dying, you can be concerned about both.
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Who cares, people are dying, this 'Will the Russia/Ukraine war affect sales?' post is ridiculous.
Unless you can do anything about the people dying, you can be concerned about both.
Very true. I feel we're living in a world where virtue signalling is king and unless you shout about how outraged you are then you're not outraged enough... and you certainly can't have any other concerns or problems in your on life.
My concern about the situation in Ukraine is real, I hope to god it comes to end quickly for the sake of all the innocents involved but make no mistake, the economic fall out of this will be felt by everyone. Let's hope peace is restored quickly.
As to the main question, it will depend on your content. If you have a lot of imagery of the region sales may go up but naturally, you cannot expect as many sales from Ukraine, they have more important things to consider. Any slowdown world wide will come down to how badly business are effected by any resulting downturn caused by sanctions, which are important and necessary. What will be will be.
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I'm heading shortly to a protest at the Russian Embassy in Madrid to get some content. Wish me luck!
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I'll heading shortly to a protest at the Russian Embassy in Madrid to get some content. Wish me luck!
Good luck! Stay safe! Give Putin hell!!!!!!!!!!!
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I'll heading shortly to a protest at the Russian Embassy in Madrid to get some content. Wish me luck!
Good luck! Stay safe! Give Putin hell!!!!!!!!!!!
Excuse me, but this is not place to talk about politics or geopolitics. Who are you to decide who is good and who is bad? And what do you even know about the reasons for this invasion? There is a big community of both Ukrainians and Russians in this forum, in fact the two largest microstock communities in the world. So, please, don't get involved here by insulting or praising anyone or anything connected to this conflict. We all agree that innocent people shouldn't be the victims and that is it. There are plenty of forums and subreddits where you can express your opinion and get involved in discussion.
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I'll heading shortly to a protest at the Russian Embassy in Madrid to get some content. Wish me luck!
Good luck! Stay safe! Give Putin hell!!!!!!!!!!!
Excuse me, but this is not place to talk about politics or geopolitics. Who are you to decide who is good and who is bad?
Excuse me, but I have been on this forum since 2013. You just joined 3 weeks ago.
I am classified as a "Diamond Member." You are an "Active Newbie."
So who are you to decide what is good and what is bad in anything here?
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I'll heading shortly to a protest at the Russian Embassy in Madrid to get some content. Wish me luck!
Good luck! Stay safe! Give Putin hell!!!!!!!!!!!
Excuse me, but this is not place to talk about politics or geopolitics. Who are you to decide who is good and who is bad?
Excuse me, but I have been on this forum since 2013. You just joined 3 weeks ago.
I am classified as a "Diamond Member." You are an "Active Newbie."
So who are you to decide what is good and what is bad in anything here?
Everything I told you is reasonable. What a member's status has to do with common sense and with being polite?
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I'm heading shortly to a protest at the Russian Embassy in Madrid to get some content. Wish me luck!
Without getting into politics, captured some cool shots and uploaded them to Rex Features (now Shutterstock Editorial) and Alamy Live News. Shot about 1 hour ago so time was of the essence for these breaking news type shots.
I've never actually sold an image on Alamy Live News (only later as a regular stock), so hoping it will be my first.
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I'm heading shortly to a protest at the Russian Embassy in Madrid to get some content. Wish me luck!
Without getting into politics, captured some cool shots and uploaded them to Rex Features (now Shutterstock Editorial) and Alamy Live News. Shot about 1 hour ago so time was of the essence for these breaking news type shots.
I've never actually sold an image on Alamy Live News (only later as a regular stock), so hoping it will be my first.
Serious question. Of course you are legally allowed to take these photos and license them as Editorial without model releases, but how do you decide with regards to the safety of the people there. For example some these people very likely have connections to Ukraine or Russia and could be back in these countries at some point. They could be in real danger if anyone recognises them, and of course these photos are easily searched and catalogued by bad actors thanks to keywords etc. Just wondering.
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I'm heading shortly to a protest at the Russian Embassy in Madrid to get some content. Wish me luck!
Without getting into politics, captured some cool shots and uploaded them to Rex Features (now Shutterstock Editorial) and Alamy Live News. Shot about 1 hour ago so time was of the essence for these breaking news type shots.
I've never actually sold an image on Alamy Live News (only later as a regular stock), so hoping it will be my first.
Serious question. Of course you are legally allowed to take these photos and license them as Editorial without model releases, but how do you decide with regards to the safety of the people there. For example some these people very likely have connections to Ukraine or Russia and could be back in these countries at some point. They could be in real danger if anyone recognises them, and of course these photos are easily searched and catalogued by bad actors thanks to keywords etc. Just wondering.
It's a good question. Not something I have thought about...until now.
The way I look at it, there were at least a dozen journalists there and some recording video non-stop....live streaming, etc. Also, I'm sure that the Russian embassy across the street also has a CCTV device (one that is clearly visible - see pic and there by might be others) and who knows these days what they do with the info.
So my pics are just a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of content that is being produced especially since I was only there for about 45 minutes. Obviously this is not an excuse and if anything happened to those people because someone spotted them via one of my pics, however unlikely, means that I would be indirectly responsible.
In the end I truly believe that there comes greater good by covering newsworthy content in a transparent way as it's a crucial part of living in a free democracy.
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I'll heading shortly to a protest at the Russian Embassy in Madrid to get some content. Wish me luck!
Good luck! Stay safe! Give Putin hell!!!!!!!!!!!
Excuse me, but this is not place to talk about politics or geopolitics. Who are you to decide who is good and who is bad?
Excuse me, but I have been on this forum since 2013. You just joined 3 weeks ago.
I am classified as a "Diamond Member." You are an "Active Newbie."
So who are you to decide what is good and what is bad in anything here?
Everything I told you is reasonable. What a member's status has to do with common sense and with being polite?
Excuse me, but "Who are you to decide…?" is in itself an offensive question. Nothing polite about it.
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Already stock markets are crashing, oil prices are rocketing up and COVID is still in the mix.
Recession next?
Ugh.
Putin enjoys sowing misery and chaos. It's the one thing he does very well.
So now he's having his way with the whole world, spreading misery and chaos everywhere, not just in Ukraine (although for sure they are getting the worst of it).
I'm sure he's loving it.
Very biased. Guilt goes to NATO and American politics. They have caused this tragedy and only Europe will experience tragedy. Sad but true.
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Yes...but...
If you make designs of nuclear explosions and Russian flags you will be able to recover the loss of sales... jokes outside... this situation scares me but this is a business and I understand that you are worried about the economy... as you can see that too the economy worries NATO states that have not imposed and all the sanctions that they could.
Brasilnut, you are working for news. your difference with other reporters is that you are not guaranteed to sell the photos. I don't think you are doing anything wrong.
Malditas sean todas las guerras
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I'm heading shortly to a protest at the Russian Embassy in Madrid to get some content. Wish me luck!
Without getting into politics, captured some cool shots and uploaded them to Rex Features (now Shutterstock Editorial) and Alamy Live News. Shot about 1 hour ago so time was of the essence for these breaking news type shots.
I've never actually sold an image on Alamy Live News (only later as a regular stock), so hoping it will be my first.
Just in case you didn't know, editorial online outlets pay 'normal' prices for Live News, i.e. their negotiated discount rate.
I sold one last week, my first LN sale, and it netted me 68c, sic, sixty-eight US cents.
However you can make much more than that with print Live News sales, so good luck.
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I'll heading shortly to a protest at the Russian Embassy in Madrid to get some content. Wish me luck!
Good luck! Stay safe! Give Putin hell!!!!!!!!!!!
Excuse me, but this is not place to talk about politics or geopolitics. Who are you to decide who is good and who is bad? And what do you even know about the reasons for this invasion? There is a big community of both Ukrainians and Russians in this forum, in fact the two largest microstock communities in the world. So, please, don't get involved here by insulting or praising anyone or anything connected to this conflict. We all agree that innocent people shouldn't be the victims and that is it. There are plenty of forums and subreddits where you can express your opinion and get involved in discussion.
Who are you to decide what is to be talked about in this place?
Sure, there's an off-topic forum, but thread drift is inevitable in online forums, and has been since the days of Usenet.
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Already stock markets are crashing, oil prices are rocketing up and COVID is still in the mix.
Recession next?
Ugh.
obviously, the invasion is a disaster for Ukraine across the board - militarily, domestically, economically, ...
financial markets arent the best indicators of the economy
some perspective:
stock markets aren't crashing - there was a 10% drop in Jan which was being reversed, then a minor blip yesterday & NASDAQ, DJIA,DAX & SP500 had a slight rise today. FTSE & Nikkei have been flat throughout the last 2 months
crude oil prices were already high last year and have been rising steadily, not 'rocketing' crude is up about 20% since 2021 & natural gas actually decreased by 30% in last qtr '21 and has had a steady rise since then of about 15%
chance of a recession lowest in several years (except for the perpetual fear-mongers who've predicted 9 of the last 5 recessions). and recessions arent directly related to financial markets (or oil prices), but lower GDP & higher unemployment, neither of which is occurring now. ["The NBER defines a recession as a significant decline in economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months, normally visible in real GDP, real income, employment, industrial production, and wholesale-retail sales" https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/recession.asp (https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/recession.asp)]
since the 2020 covid recession, most of those indicators are approaching pre-pandemic levels (US stats: https://www.cnn.com/business/us-economic-recovery-coronavirus (https://www.cnn.com/business/us-economic-recovery-coronavirus)) Russia & Ukraine together account for less than 2% of the world’s gross domestic product.
there will severe economic hardships, but not the way OP claimed
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Serious question. Of course you are legally allowed to take these photos and license them as Editorial without model releases, but how do you decide with regards to the safety of the people there. For example some these people very likely have connections to Ukraine or Russia and could be back in these countries at some point. They could be in real danger if anyone recognises them, and of course these photos are easily searched and catalogued by bad actors thanks to keywords etc. Just wondering.
It's a good question. Not something I have thought about...until now.
The way I look at it, there were at least a dozen journalists there and some recording video non-stop....live streaming, etc. Also, I'm sure that the Russian embassy across the street also has a CCTV device (one that is clearly visible - see pic and there by might be others) and who knows these days what they do with the info.
So my pics are just a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of content that is being produced especially since I was only there for about 45 minutes. Obviously this is not an excuse and if anything happened to those people because someone spotted them via one of my pics, however unlikely, means that I would be indirectly responsible.
In the end I truly believe that there comes greater good by covering newsworthy content in a transparent way as it's a crucial part of living in a free democracy.
Yes, I've had similar qualms about covering protests in Mexico,Peru & India (and little in the US, altho states are passing laws that would severely limit the rights of protesters), but came to the same conclusions -- that microstock was unlikely to be the authoritarian's tool for repression and on balance more 'speech' is better than self-censorship
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I'll heading shortly to a protest at the Russian Embassy in Madrid to get some content. Wish me luck!
Good luck! Stay safe! Give Putin hell!!!!!!!!!!!
Excuse me, but this is not place to talk about politics or geopolitics. Who are you to decide who is good and who is bad?
Excuse me, but I have been on this forum since 2013. You just joined 3 weeks ago.
I am classified as a "Diamond Member." You are an "Active Newbie."
So who are you to decide what is good and what is bad in anything here?
Everything I told you is reasonable. What a member's status has to do with common sense and with being polite?
In case you had not noticed this forum will allow discussions about any subject in this case its related to stock sales.
There is also a section to discuss anything at all if you wish.
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Already stock markets are crashing, oil prices are rocketing up and COVID is still in the mix.
Recession next?
Ugh.
Putin enjoys sowing misery and chaos. It's the one thing he does very well.
So now he's having his way with the whole world, spreading misery and chaos everywhere, not just in Ukraine (although for sure they are getting the worst of it).
I'm sure he's loving it.
Very biased. Guilt goes to NATO and American politics. They have caused this tragedy and only Europe will experience tragedy. Sad but true.
Keep drinking the Putin kool aid Russian botnik ;D
-
Already stock markets are crashing, oil prices are rocketing up and COVID is still in the mix.
Recession next?
Ugh.
Putin enjoys sowing misery and chaos. It's the one thing he does very well.
So now he's having his way with the whole world, spreading misery and chaos everywhere, not just in Ukraine (although for sure they are getting the worst of it).
I'm sure he's loving it.
Very biased. Guilt goes to NATO and American politics. They have caused this tragedy and only Europe will experience tragedy. Sad but true.
Keep drinking the Putin kool aid Russian botnik ;D
I'm not pro Russian. I just try to observe the world with open eyes. Try yourself sometimes. It helps. ;)
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I'm heading shortly to a protest at the Russian Embassy in Madrid to get some content. Wish me luck!
Without getting into politics, captured some cool shots and uploaded them to Rex Features (now Shutterstock Editorial) and Alamy Live News. Shot about 1 hour ago so time was of the essence for these breaking news type shots.
I've never actually sold an image on Alamy Live News (only later as a regular stock), so hoping it will be my first.
Serious question. Of course you are legally allowed to take these photos and license them as Editorial without model releases, but how do you decide with regards to the safety of the people there. For example some these people very likely have connections to Ukraine or Russia and could be back in these countries at some point. They could be in real danger if anyone recognises them, and of course these photos are easily searched and catalogued by bad actors thanks to keywords etc. Just wondering.
Brasilnut already replied, but consider this: it's a public place, public protest, meant to be noticed! People who attend know they will be seen and realize that they will be photographed and filmed. Either by journalists, other participants, or bystanders. This content will be shown on tv, web, social, practically any place imaginable by just anyone. So how I see it, Brasilnut's photos won't do any harm, they just show what's going on.
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Already stock markets are crashing, oil prices are rocketing up and COVID is still in the mix.
Recession next?
Ugh.
Putin enjoys sowing misery and chaos. It's the one thing he does very well.
So now he's having his way with the whole world, spreading misery and chaos everywhere, not just in Ukraine (although for sure they are getting the worst of it).
I'm sure he's loving it.
Very biased. Guilt goes to NATO and American politics. They have caused this tragedy and only Europe will experience tragedy. Sad but true.
Keep drinking the Putin kool aid Russian botnik ;D
I'm not pro Russian. I just try to observe the world with open eyes. Try yourself sometimes. It helps. ;)
Perhaps you'd like to explain what your open eyes have taught you to the rest of us*.
Best to take it to the Off-topic forum, though.
I am aware that Trump has praised Putin: "He is pretty smart. He’s taken over a country for $2 worth of sanctions,... really a vast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people — and just walking right in.”
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Already stock markets are crashing, oil prices are rocketing up and COVID is still in the mix.
Recession next?
Ugh.
Putin enjoys sowing misery and chaos. It's the one thing he does very well.
So now he's having his way with the whole world, spreading misery and chaos everywhere, not just in Ukraine (although for sure they are getting the worst of it).
I'm sure he's loving it.
Very biased. Guilt goes to NATO and American politics. They have caused this tragedy and only Europe will experience tragedy. Sad but true.
Keep drinking the Putin kool aid Russian botnik ;D
I'm not pro Russian. I just try to observe the world with open eyes. Try yourself sometimes. It helps. ;)
Perhaps you'd like to explain what your open eyes have taught you to the rest of us*.
I take it to the Off-topic forum, though.
I am aware that Trump has praised Putin: "He is pretty smart. He’s taken over a country for $2 worth of sanctions,... really a vast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people — and just walking right in.”
Him against the rest?! Do you see how you put it? And he explained it to you, and the rest, whoever the rest are. The reason Russia had to take this action is because NATO (read -US) was planning to bring Ukraine in NATO, which means US army on Russian borders. Anybody informed about military, geopolitics and anything related knows that is an extreme danger for Russia's safety. Russia warned NATO million times in the past years about this. Ukraine in NATO means balance of terror would be disturbed.
The war and the invasion and suffering of innocent people are horrible, but I don't remember this kind of hate (not strong word enough for what I see here) when US invaded - Iraq, Syria, Libya and Serbia. And killing of all those people there.
I'm so disappointed in this community, not because taking a side here - it can be easily explained, it is a side of a victim. But, for not taking the side of a victim in the previously mentioned invasions made by US.
Which makes it clear - it is a horrifying and an unbelievable hate of everything Russian.
I'm not Russian myself, but being someone who went through a lengthy war, and being on frontlines, and being hated by enemy and knowing how this hate ends (terror and massacre) it wouldn't surprise me that if you (and the rest, whoever the rest are) had a chance to be in the front of a captured Russian solder - you would torture him. I've been there, and I guarantee, after reading your words here - that you would torture a captured solder.
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Already stock markets are crashing, oil prices are rocketing up and COVID is still in the mix.
Recession next?
Ugh.
Putin enjoys sowing misery and chaos. It's the one thing he does very well.
So now he's having his way with the whole world, spreading misery and chaos everywhere, not just in Ukraine (although for sure they are getting the worst of it).
I'm sure he's loving it.
Very biased. Guilt goes to NATO and American politics. They have caused this tragedy and only Europe will experience tragedy. Sad but true.
Keep drinking the Putin kool aid Russian botnik ;D
I'm not pro Russian. I just try to observe the world with open eyes. Try yourself sometimes. It helps. ;)
Perhaps you'd like to explain what your open eyes have taught you to the rest of us*.
I take it to the Off-topic forum, though.
I am aware that Trump has praised Putin: "He is pretty smart. He’s taken over a country for $2 worth of sanctions,... really a vast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people — and just walking right in.”
Him against the rest?! Do you see how you put it? And he explained it to you, and the rest, whoever the rest are. The reason Russia had to take this action is because NATO (read -US) was planning to bring Ukraine in NATO, which means US army on Russian borders. Anybody informed about military, geopolitics and anything related knows that is an extreme danger for Russia's safety. Russia warned NATO million times in the past years about this. Ukraine in NATO means balance of terror would be disturbed.
The war and the invasion and suffering of innocent people are horrible, but I don't remember this kind of hate (not strong word enough for what I see here) when US invaded - Iraq, Syria, Libya and Serbia. And killing of all those people there.
I'm so disappointed in this community, not because taking a side here - it can be easily explained, it is a side of a victim. But, for not taking the side of a victim in the previously mentioned invasions made by US.
Which makes it clear - it is a horrifying and an unbelievable hate of everything Russian.
I'm not Russian myself, but being someone who went through a lengthy war, and being on frontlines, and being hated by enemy and knowing how this hate ends (terror and massacre) it wouldn't surprise me that if you (and the rest, whoever the rest are) had a chance to be in the front of a captured Russian solder - you would torture him. I've been there, and I guarantee, after reading your words here - that you would torture a captured solder.
Dangerous for Russia's Safety? What? Russia just invaded another country, they just bombed other people and places, and you say it's for their safety? Europe doesn't attack and invade their neighbors, but Russia does and has a long history of doing that.
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Sales are pretty bottom-of-the-barrel for most, anyway. Not sure this will affect sales any more than past world crisis’ did. Those who can cover what’s happening with the Ukrainian people, refugees, soldiers moving in, etc. might do well.
Eyes should be on the US National Vaccine Pass that was rolled out while we were watching war breakout in the Ukraine. (Read about it in Forbes). You will have no freedoms left, you will be tracked everywhere. Mark me. Or laugh at me, as usual. Or you can research The Great Reset. Don’t say you weren’t warned.
It’s happening in Canada. People moving $$ out of banks before their accounts are frozen. PS Don’t look for it to be on your msm TV news.
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Cathy, I’m concerned you might actually be suffering from a mental illness. Please try and get help. Hope you get better soon.
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Already stock markets are crashing, oil prices are rocketing up and COVID is still in the mix.
Recession next?
Ugh.
Putin enjoys sowing misery and chaos. It's the one thing he does very well.
So now he's having his way with the whole world, spreading misery and chaos everywhere, not just in Ukraine (although for sure they are getting the worst of it).
I'm sure he's loving it.
Very biased. Guilt goes to NATO and American politics. They have caused this tragedy and only Europe will experience tragedy. Sad but true.
Keep drinking the Putin kool aid Russian botnik ;D
I'm not pro Russian. I just try to observe the world with open eyes. Try yourself sometimes. It helps. ;)
Perhaps you'd like to explain what your open eyes have taught you to the rest of us*.
I take it to the Off-topic forum, though.
I am aware that Trump has praised Putin: "He is pretty smart. He’s taken over a country for $2 worth of sanctions,... really a vast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people — and just walking right in.”
Him against the rest?! Do you see how you put it? And he explained it to you, and the rest, whoever the rest are. The reason Russia had to take this action is because NATO (read -US) was planning to bring Ukraine in NATO, which means US army on Russian borders. Anybody informed about military, geopolitics and anything related knows that is an extreme danger for Russia's safety. Russia warned NATO million times in the past years about this. Ukraine in NATO means balance of terror would be disturbed.
The war and the invasion and suffering of innocent people are horrible, but I don't remember this kind of hate (not strong word enough for what I see here) when US invaded - Iraq, Syria, Libya and Serbia. And killing of all those people there.
I'm so disappointed in this community, not because taking a side here - it can be easily explained, it is a side of a victim. But, for not taking the side of a victim in the previously mentioned invasions made by US.
Which makes it clear - it is a horrifying and an unbelievable hate of everything Russian.
I'm not Russian myself, but being someone who went through a lengthy war, and being on frontlines, and being hated by enemy and knowing how this hate ends (terror and massacre) it wouldn't surprise me that if you (and the rest, whoever the rest are) had a chance to be in the front of a captured Russian solder - you would torture him. I've been there, and I guarantee, after reading your words here - that you would torture a captured solder.
What nonsense. Countries have freed themselves from the Soviet Union because they no longer wanted to belong to it and for fear of Russia they joined the West.
Things weren't so cheerful under Stalin either. And also think of Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968.
We have absolutely nothing against the Russian people. It's just sad. I even wrote that we have a monument in the village in memory of the Russians, who died here together with the English against the French of Napoleon.
Ukraine itself has asked for membership, which has been refused.
Finland and Sweden, which are now also thinking of membership out of fear, are under threat.
But strange that as a new member you immediately join this discussion.
What do I think when I hear Putin calling a leader of Ukraine a Nazi, when the man is Jewish and has lost family in the second world war??
When I hear Putin say that it is an exercise and that troops are withdrawing??
Come on. He's just taking a piece of land like our ancient kings used to do
We Dutch should attack Flanders in Belgium because that used to belong to the Netherlands after all.
-
Already stock markets are crashing, oil prices are rocketing up and COVID is still in the mix.
Recession next?
Ugh.
Putin enjoys sowing misery and chaos. It's the one thing he does very well.
So now he's having his way with the whole world, spreading misery and chaos everywhere, not just in Ukraine (although for sure they are getting the worst of it).
I'm sure he's loving it.
Very biased. Guilt goes to NATO and American politics. They have caused this tragedy and only Europe will experience tragedy. Sad but true.
Keep drinking the Putin kool aid Russian botnik ;D
I'm not pro Russian. I just try to observe the world with open eyes. Try yourself sometimes. It helps. ;)
Perhaps you'd like to explain what your open eyes have taught you to the rest of us*.
I take it to the Off-topic forum, though.
I am aware that Trump has praised Putin: "He is pretty smart. He’s taken over a country for $2 worth of sanctions,... really a vast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people — and just walking right in.”
Him against the rest?! Do you see how you put it? And he explained it to you, and the rest, whoever the rest are. The reason Russia had to take this action is because NATO (read -US) was planning to bring Ukraine in NATO, which means US army on Russian borders. Anybody informed about military, geopolitics and anything related knows that is an extreme danger for Russia's safety. Russia warned NATO million times in the past years about this. Ukraine in NATO means balance of terror would be disturbed.
The war and the invasion and suffering of innocent people are horrible, but I don't remember this kind of hate (not strong word enough for what I see here) when US invaded - Iraq, Syria, Libya and Serbia. And killing of all those people there.
I'm so disappointed in this community, not because taking a side here - it can be easily explained, it is a side of a victim. But, for not taking the side of a victim in the previously mentioned invasions made by US.
Which makes it clear - it is a horrifying and an unbelievable hate of everything Russian.
I'm not Russian myself, but being someone who went through a lengthy war, and being on frontlines, and being hated by enemy and knowing how this hate ends (terror and massacre) it wouldn't surprise me that if you (and the rest, whoever the rest are) had a chance to be in the front of a captured Russian solder - you would torture him. I've been there, and I guarantee, after reading your words here - that you would torture a captured solder.
What nonsense. Countries have freed themselves from the Soviet Union because they no longer wanted to belong to it and for fear of Russia they joined the West.
Things weren't so cheerful under Stalin either. And also think of Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968.
We have absolutely nothing against the Russian people. It's just sad. I even wrote that we have a monument in the village in memory of the Russians, who died here together with the English against the French of Napoleon.
Ukraine itself has asked for membership, which has been refused.
Finland and Sweden, which are now also thinking of membership out of fear, are under threat.
But strange that as a new member you immediately join this discussion. Are you also going to talk about photos?
What do I think when I hear Putin calling a leader of Ukraine a Nazi, when the man is Jewish and has lost family in the second world war??
When I hear Putin say that it is an exercise and that troops are withdrawing??
Come on. He's just taking a piece of land like our ancient kings used to do
We Dutch should attack Flanders in Belgium because that used to belong to the Netherlands after all.
You talk like five year old. Complete nonsense. You skipped all the classes after elementary school. I'm not willing to get in conversation with you. I can talk about video if you want. This is not photos exclusive forum.
He is a Jew, but also a cocaine addict. used to play piano with his d.ck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbmZrzN3WFE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbmZrzN3WFE)
Not a serious individual at all, installed by US.
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As far as hating Russians? You mean the ones who gave more to ensure Europe’s freedom than anyone else in WW2? I hope most people have zero animosity to the Russian people as a whole. I know I don’t, quite the opposite. They are some of the biggest of Putin’s victims. They have a country hugely rich in natural resources that has been completely raided by Putin and his buddies with most of their wealth shipped abroad.
A lot of that wealth is hidden offshore or in real estate in the US and London, and yes these countries are complicit for allowing this to happen. I can understand bitterness about that and I hope this will now be addressed (not holding my breath with the corruption in the UK for example).
And yes the US would never tolerate Russian armies in Mexico or in Canada. The Monroe Doctrine sucks and I wouldn’t support the US invading other countries for making their own decisions either. Right now bringing this up is just whataboutism while innocent people are murdered on the streets of Ukraine. NONE of it in any way justifies Putin’s fascistic imperialist ambitions or the suffering of innocent Ukrainians who want nothing more than to live their life in peace and make their own decisions. As Uncle Pete said, no European nation was going to invade Russia.
There was zero chance of Ukraine joining NATO anytime soon. It’s a horse***t justification. Listen to Putin's speech. He thinks Ukraine doesn’t even exist as a country. It has been a creeping invasion stretching out over years. When Ukraine is back as a region of mother Russia what then? He’s got NATO up against his border anyway.
P.S. regarding “The war and the invasion and suffering of innocent people are horrible, but I don't remember this kind of hate (not strong word enough for what I see here) when US invaded - Iraq, Syria, Libya and Serbia. And killing of all those people there.” you must have a very short memory. The invasion of Iraq resulted in the biggest global peace protests ever. Disillusionment over the US’s insistence on going ahead with it even though their evidence of WMDs was clearly BS is one the things that has led us to the political climate we have today.
-
Already stock markets are crashing, oil prices are rocketing up and COVID is still in the mix.
Recession next?
Ugh.
Putin enjoys sowing misery and chaos. It's the one thing he does very well.
So now he's having his way with the whole world, spreading misery and chaos everywhere, not just in Ukraine (although for sure they are getting the worst of it).
I'm sure he's loving it.
Very biased. Guilt goes to NATO and American politics. They have caused this tragedy and only Europe will experience tragedy. Sad but true.
Keep drinking the Putin kool aid Russian botnik ;D
I'm not pro Russian. I just try to observe the world with open eyes. Try yourself sometimes. It helps. ;)
Perhaps you'd like to explain what your open eyes have taught you to the rest of us*.
I take it to the Off-topic forum, though.
I am aware that Trump has praised Putin: "He is pretty smart. He’s taken over a country for $2 worth of sanctions,... really a vast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people — and just walking right in.”
Him against the rest?! Do you see how you put it? And he explained it to you, and the rest, whoever the rest are. The reason Russia had to take this action is because NATO (read -US) was planning to bring Ukraine in NATO, which means US army on Russian borders. Anybody informed about military, geopolitics and anything related knows that is an extreme danger for Russia's safety. Russia warned NATO million times in the past years about this. Ukraine in NATO means balance of terror would be disturbed.
The war and the invasion and suffering of innocent people are horrible, but I don't remember this kind of hate (not strong word enough for what I see here) when US invaded - Iraq, Syria, Libya and Serbia. And killing of all those people there.
I'm so disappointed in this community, not because taking a side here - it can be easily explained, it is a side of a victim. But, for not taking the side of a victim in the previously mentioned invasions made by US.
Which makes it clear - it is a horrifying and an unbelievable hate of everything Russian.
I'm not Russian myself, but being someone who went through a lengthy war, and being on frontlines, and being hated by enemy and knowing how this hate ends (terror and massacre) it wouldn't surprise me that if you (and the rest, whoever the rest are) had a chance to be in the front of a captured Russian solder - you would torture him. I've been there, and I guarantee, after reading your words here - that you would torture a captured solder.
What nonsense. Countries have freed themselves from the Soviet Union because they no longer wanted to belong to it and for fear of Russia they joined the West.
Things weren't so cheerful under Stalin either. And also think of Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968.
We have absolutely nothing against the Russian people. It's just sad. I even wrote that we have a monument in the village in memory of the Russians, who died here together with the English against the French of Napoleon.
Ukraine itself has asked for membership, which has been refused.
Finland and Sweden, which are now also thinking of membership out of fear, are under threat.
But strange that as a new member you immediately join this discussion. Are you also going to talk about photos?
What do I think when I hear Putin calling a leader of Ukraine a Nazi, when the man is Jewish and has lost family in the second world war??
When I hear Putin say that it is an exercise and that troops are withdrawing??
Come on. He's just taking a piece of land like our ancient kings used to do
We Dutch should attack Flanders in Belgium because that used to belong to the Netherlands after all.
You talk like five year old. Complete nonsense. You skipped all the classes after elementary school. I'm not willing to get in conversation with you. I can talk about video if you want. This is not photos exclusive forum.
No, sorry.
Thijs does not talk like a five year old. What he says is not nonsense.
And in fact, his English is far better than yours.
-
As far as hating Russians? You mean the ones who gave more to ensure Europe’s freedom than anyone else in WW2? I hope most people have zero animosity to the Russian people as a whole. I know I don’t, quite the opposite. They are some of the biggest of Putin’s victims. They have a country hugely rich in natural resources that has been completely raided by Putin and his buddies with most of their wealth shipped abroad.
A lot of that wealth is hidden offshore or in real estate in the US and London, and yes these countries are complicit for allowing this to happen. I can understand bitterness about that and I hope this will now be addressed (not holding my breath with the corruption in the UK for example).
And yes the US would never tolerate Russian armies in Mexico or in Canada. The Monroe Doctrine sucks and I wouldn’t support the US invading other countries for making their own decisions either. Right now bringing this up is just whataboutism while innocent people are murdered on the streets of Ukraine. NONE of it in any way justifies Putin’s fascistic imperialist ambitions or the suffering of innocent Ukrainians who want nothing more than to live their life in peace and make their own decisions. As Uncle Pete said, no European nation was going to invade Russia.
There was zero chance of Ukraine joining NATO anytime soon. It’s a horse***t justification. Listen to Putin's speech. He thinks Ukraine doesn’t even exist as a country. It has been a creeping invasion stretching out over years. When Ukraine is back as a region of mother Russia what then? He’s got NATO up against his border anyway.
P.S. regarding “The war and the invasion and suffering of innocent people are horrible, but I don't remember this kind of hate (not strong word enough for what I see here) when US invaded - Iraq, Syria, Libya and Serbia. And killing of all those people there.” you must have a very short memory. The invasion of Iraq resulted in the biggest global peace protests ever. Disillusionment over the US’s insistence on going ahead with it even though their evidence of WMDs was clearly BS is one the things that has led us to the political climate we have today.
Well, actually I agree with you 100%. Happy to hear a reasonable and intelligent comment.
-
Already stock markets are crashing, oil prices are rocketing up and COVID is still in the mix.
Recession next?
Ugh.
Putin enjoys sowing misery and chaos. It's the one thing he does very well.
So now he's having his way with the whole world, spreading misery and chaos everywhere, not just in Ukraine (although for sure they are getting the worst of it).
I'm sure he's loving it.
Very biased. Guilt goes to NATO and American politics. They have caused this tragedy and only Europe will experience tragedy. Sad but true.
Keep drinking the Putin kool aid Russian botnik ;D
I'm not pro Russian. I just try to observe the world with open eyes. Try yourself sometimes. It helps. ;)
Perhaps you'd like to explain what your open eyes have taught you to the rest of us*.
I take it to the Off-topic forum, though.
I am aware that Trump has praised Putin: "He is pretty smart. He’s taken over a country for $2 worth of sanctions,... really a vast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people — and just walking right in.”
Him against the rest?! Do you see how you put it? And he explained it to you, and the rest, whoever the rest are. The reason Russia had to take this action is because NATO (read -US) was planning to bring Ukraine in NATO, which means US army on Russian borders. Anybody informed about military, geopolitics and anything related knows that is an extreme danger for Russia's safety. Russia warned NATO million times in the past years about this. Ukraine in NATO means balance of terror would be disturbed.
The war and the invasion and suffering of innocent people are horrible, but I don't remember this kind of hate (not strong word enough for what I see here) when US invaded - Iraq, Syria, Libya and Serbia. And killing of all those people there.
I'm so disappointed in this community, not because taking a side here - it can be easily explained, it is a side of a victim. But, for not taking the side of a victim in the previously mentioned invasions made by US.
Which makes it clear - it is a horrifying and an unbelievable hate of everything Russian.
I'm not Russian myself, but being someone who went through a lengthy war, and being on frontlines, and being hated by enemy and knowing how this hate ends (terror and massacre) it wouldn't surprise me that if you (and the rest, whoever the rest are) had a chance to be in the front of a captured Russian solder - you would torture him. I've been there, and I guarantee, after reading your words here - that you would torture a captured solder.
What nonsense. Countries have freed themselves from the Soviet Union because they no longer wanted to belong to it and for fear of Russia they joined the West.
Things weren't so cheerful under Stalin either. And also think of Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968.
We have absolutely nothing against the Russian people. It's just sad. I even wrote that we have a monument in the village in memory of the Russians, who died here together with the English against the French of Napoleon.
Ukraine itself has asked for membership, which has been refused.
Finland and Sweden, which are now also thinking of membership out of fear, are under threat.
But strange that as a new member you immediately join this discussion. Are you also going to talk about photos?
What do I think when I hear Putin calling a leader of Ukraine a Nazi, when the man is Jewish and has lost family in the second world war??
When I hear Putin say that it is an exercise and that troops are withdrawing??
Come on. He's just taking a piece of land like our ancient kings used to do
We Dutch should attack Flanders in Belgium because that used to belong to the Netherlands after all.
You talk like five year old. Complete nonsense. You skipped all the classes after elementary school. I'm not willing to get in conversation with you. I can talk about video if you want. This is not photos exclusive forum.
No, sorry.
Thijs does not talk like a five year old. What he says is not nonsense.
And in fact, his English is far better than yours.
What my English has to do with anything? Am I supposed to pass some kind of English language test of yours to be allowed to speak?
-
Already stock markets are crashing, oil prices are rocketing up and COVID is still in the mix.
Recession next?
Ugh.
Putin enjoys sowing misery and chaos. It's the one thing he does very well.
So now he's having his way with the whole world, spreading misery and chaos everywhere, not just in Ukraine (although for sure they are getting the worst of it).
I'm sure he's loving it.
Very biased. Guilt goes to NATO and American politics. They have caused this tragedy and only Europe will experience tragedy. Sad but true.
Keep drinking the Putin kool aid Russian botnik ;D
I'm not pro Russian. I just try to observe the world with open eyes. Try yourself sometimes. It helps. ;)
Perhaps you'd like to explain what your open eyes have taught you to the rest of us*.
I take it to the Off-topic forum, though.
I am aware that Trump has praised Putin: "He is pretty smart. He’s taken over a country for $2 worth of sanctions,... really a vast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people — and just walking right in.”
Him against the rest?! Do you see how you put it? And he explained it to you, and the rest, whoever the rest are. The reason Russia had to take this action is because NATO (read -US) was planning to bring Ukraine in NATO, which means US army on Russian borders. Anybody informed about military, geopolitics and anything related knows that is an extreme danger for Russia's safety. Russia warned NATO million times in the past years about this. Ukraine in NATO means balance of terror would be disturbed.
The war and the invasion and suffering of innocent people are horrible, but I don't remember this kind of hate (not strong word enough for what I see here) when US invaded - Iraq, Syria, Libya and Serbia. And killing of all those people there.
I'm so disappointed in this community, not because taking a side here - it can be easily explained, it is a side of a victim. But, for not taking the side of a victim in the previously mentioned invasions made by US.
Which makes it clear - it is a horrifying and an unbelievable hate of everything Russian.
I'm not Russian myself, but being someone who went through a lengthy war, and being on frontlines, and being hated by enemy and knowing how this hate ends (terror and massacre) it wouldn't surprise me that if you (and the rest, whoever the rest are) had a chance to be in the front of a captured Russian solder - you would torture him. I've been there, and I guarantee, after reading your words here - that you would torture a captured solder.
What nonsense. Countries have freed themselves from the Soviet Union because they no longer wanted to belong to it and for fear of Russia they joined the West.
Things weren't so cheerful under Stalin either. And also think of Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968.
We have absolutely nothing against the Russian people. It's just sad. I even wrote that we have a monument in the village in memory of the Russians, who died here together with the English against the French of Napoleon.
Ukraine itself has asked for membership, which has been refused.
Finland and Sweden, which are now also thinking of membership out of fear, are under threat.
But strange that as a new member you immediately join this discussion. Are you also going to talk about photos?
What do I think when I hear Putin calling a leader of Ukraine a Nazi, when the man is Jewish and has lost family in the second world war??
When I hear Putin say that it is an exercise and that troops are withdrawing??
Come on. He's just taking a piece of land like our ancient kings used to do
We Dutch should attack Flanders in Belgium because that used to belong to the Netherlands after all.
You talk like five year old. Complete nonsense. You skipped all the classes after elementary school. I'm not willing to get in conversation with you. I can talk about video if you want. This is not photos exclusive forum.
No, sorry.
Thijs does not talk like a five year old. What he says is not nonsense.
And in fact, his English is far better than yours.
What my English has to do with anything? Am I supposed to pass some kind of English language test of yours to be allowed to speak?
Hey, pal. Don't criticize how somebody else "talks" and then get all up in arms when one of us criticizes how you "talk."
-
Already stock markets are crashing, oil prices are rocketing up and COVID is still in the mix.
Recession next?
Ugh.
Putin enjoys sowing misery and chaos. It's the one thing he does very well.
So now he's having his way with the whole world, spreading misery and chaos everywhere, not just in Ukraine (although for sure they are getting the worst of it).
I'm sure he's loving it.
Very biased. Guilt goes to NATO and American politics. They have caused this tragedy and only Europe will experience tragedy. Sad but true.
Keep drinking the Putin kool aid Russian botnik ;D
I'm not pro Russian. I just try to observe the world with open eyes. Try yourself sometimes. It helps. ;)
Perhaps you'd like to explain what your open eyes have taught you to the rest of us*.
I take it to the Off-topic forum, though.
I am aware that Trump has praised Putin: "He is pretty smart. He’s taken over a country for $2 worth of sanctions,... really a vast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people — and just walking right in.”
Him against the rest?! Do you see how you put it? And he explained it to you, and the rest, whoever the rest are. The reason Russia had to take this action is because NATO (read -US) was planning to bring Ukraine in NATO, which means US army on Russian borders. Anybody informed about military, geopolitics and anything related knows that is an extreme danger for Russia's safety. Russia warned NATO million times in the past years about this. Ukraine in NATO means balance of terror would be disturbed.
The war and the invasion and suffering of innocent people are horrible, but I don't remember this kind of hate (not strong word enough for what I see here) when US invaded - Iraq, Syria, Libya and Serbia. And killing of all those people there.
I'm so disappointed in this community, not because taking a side here - it can be easily explained, it is a side of a victim. But, for not taking the side of a victim in the previously mentioned invasions made by US.
Which makes it clear - it is a horrifying and an unbelievable hate of everything Russian.
I'm not Russian myself, but being someone who went through a lengthy war, and being on frontlines, and being hated by enemy and knowing how this hate ends (terror and massacre) it wouldn't surprise me that if you (and the rest, whoever the rest are) had a chance to be in the front of a captured Russian solder - you would torture him. I've been there, and I guarantee, after reading your words here - that you would torture a captured solder.
What nonsense. Countries have freed themselves from the Soviet Union because they no longer wanted to belong to it and for fear of Russia they joined the West.
Things weren't so cheerful under Stalin either. And also think of Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968.
We have absolutely nothing against the Russian people. It's just sad. I even wrote that we have a monument in the village in memory of the Russians, who died here together with the English against the French of Napoleon.
Ukraine itself has asked for membership, which has been refused.
Finland and Sweden, which are now also thinking of membership out of fear, are under threat.
But strange that as a new member you immediately join this discussion. Are you also going to talk about photos?
What do I think when I hear Putin calling a leader of Ukraine a Nazi, when the man is Jewish and has lost family in the second world war??
When I hear Putin say that it is an exercise and that troops are withdrawing??
Come on. He's just taking a piece of land like our ancient kings used to do
We Dutch should attack Flanders in Belgium because that used to belong to the Netherlands after all.
You talk like five year old. Complete nonsense. You skipped all the classes after elementary school. I'm not willing to get in conversation with you. I can talk about video if you want. This is not photos exclusive forum.
He is a Jew, but also a cocaine addict. used to play piano with his d.ck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbmZrzN3WFE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbmZrzN3WFE)
Not a serious individual at all, installed by US.
I already had removed the comment about photos. But it surprised me a bit. Also because you regularly read about trolls.
I have been a teacher for thirty years and 72. Then you will say you are getting too old and you must have been a bad teacher. ;)
As for what I wrote. There is no falsehood in that.
But I don't want to argue with you any further. Keep fantasizing.
-
Eyes should be on the US National Vaccine Pass that was rolled out while we were watching war breakout in the Ukraine. (Read about it in Forbes). You will have no freedoms left, you will be tracked everywhere. Mark me. Or laugh at me, as usual. Or you can research The Great Reset. Don’t say you weren’t warned.
It’s happening in Canada. People moving $$ out of banks before their accounts are frozen. PS Don’t look for it to be on your msm TV news.
I just checked out Cathy's claim.
Here's the complete article, no paywall:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2022/02/24/national-vaccine-quietly-rolled-out/ (https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2022/02/24/national-vaccine-quietly-rolled-out/)
Here's the headline:
A National Vaccine Pass Has Quietly Rolled Out – And Red States Are Getting On Board
If you read the piece, you'll find this about Bindle, a health verification app that allows venues to verify the vaccination status of patrons:
Bindle’s growing list of clients spans more than 30 states, from blue strongholds like California and New York to red leaners like Texas, Florida, Arkansas, Missouri and Georgia. At the Kennedy Center in Washington, D.C., for example, there's a Bindle lane that offers fastpass-like efficiency in scanning QR codes from a number of vaccine verification platforms used around the world.
(emphasis mine)
Doesn't sound like any kind of pinko-commie plot to me. Makes me wonder if Cathy actually read the article, or just heard about it on some right-wing talk station, blog or Faux News.
-
This is a good example of "shoot where you are with what you have as best you can."
Any decent photographer who happens to live in Ukraine could make a killing (so to speak) shooting editorial images right now. Assuming they survive their encounters with Russian rockets, tanks, and troops.
But for the rest of us, Just Another Photographer has it absolutely right. The soldiers (both Ukrainian and Russian) who will die and the Ukrainian civiliians who are now forced into refugee status to avoid being killed or captured and brutalized are the ones we should focus on (so to speak). Whatever lost income may result from this unfortunate situation is a minor concern in the grand scheme of things.
Editorials will contribute for the future court in Hague.
-
Already stock markets are crashing, oil prices are rocketing up and COVID is still in the mix.
Recession next?
Ugh.
Putin enjoys sowing misery and chaos. It's the one thing he does very well.
So now he's having his way with the whole world, spreading misery and chaos everywhere, not just in Ukraine (although for sure they are getting the worst of it).
I'm sure he's loving it.
Very biased. Guilt goes to NATO and American politics. They have caused this tragedy and only Europe will experience tragedy. Sad but true.
Keep drinking the Putin kool aid Russian botnik ;D
I'm not pro Russian. I just try to observe the world with open eyes. Try yourself sometimes. It helps. ;)
Perhaps you'd like to explain what your open eyes have taught you to the rest of us*.
I take it to the Off-topic forum, though.
I am aware that Trump has praised Putin: "He is pretty smart. He’s taken over a country for $2 worth of sanctions,... really a vast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people — and just walking right in.”
Him against the rest?! Do you see how you put it? And he explained it to you, and the rest, whoever the rest are. The reason Russia had to take this action is because NATO (read -US) was planning to bring Ukraine in NATO, which means US army on Russian borders. Anybody informed about military, geopolitics and anything related knows that is an extreme danger for Russia's safety. Russia warned NATO million times in the past years about this. Ukraine in NATO means balance of terror would be disturbed.
The war and the invasion and suffering of innocent people are horrible, but I don't remember this kind of hate (not strong word enough for what I see here) when US invaded - Iraq, Syria, Libya and Serbia. And killing of all those people there.
I'm so disappointed in this community, not because taking a side here - it can be easily explained, it is a side of a victim. But, for not taking the side of a victim in the previously mentioned invasions made by US.
Which makes it clear - it is a horrifying and an unbelievable hate of everything Russian.
I'm not Russian myself, but being someone who went through a lengthy war, and being on frontlines, and being hated by enemy and knowing how this hate ends (terror and massacre) it wouldn't surprise me that if you (and the rest, whoever the rest are) had a chance to be in the front of a captured Russian solder - you would torture him. I've been there, and I guarantee, after reading your words here - that you would torture a captured solder.
What nonsense. Countries have freed themselves from the Soviet Union because they no longer wanted to belong to it and for fear of Russia they joined the West.
Things weren't so cheerful under Stalin either. And also think of Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968.
We have absolutely nothing against the Russian people. It's just sad. I even wrote that we have a monument in the village in memory of the Russians, who died here together with the English against the French of Napoleon.
Ukraine itself has asked for membership, which has been refused.
Finland and Sweden, which are now also thinking of membership out of fear, are under threat.
But strange that as a new member you immediately join this discussion. Are you also going to talk about photos?
What do I think when I hear Putin calling a leader of Ukraine a Nazi, when the man is Jewish and has lost family in the second world war??
When I hear Putin say that it is an exercise and that troops are withdrawing??
Come on. He's just taking a piece of land like our ancient kings used to do
We Dutch should attack Flanders in Belgium because that used to belong to the Netherlands after all.
You talk like five year old. Complete nonsense. You skipped all the classes after elementary school. I'm not willing to get in conversation with you. I can talk about video if you want. This is not photos exclusive forum.
No, sorry.
Thijs does not talk like a five year old. What he says is not nonsense.
And in fact, his English is far better than yours.
What my English has to do with anything? Am I supposed to pass some kind of English language test of yours to be allowed to speak?
Hey, pal. Don't criticize how somebody else "talks" and then get all up in arms when one of us criticizes how you "talk."
I'm not your pal. And don't tell me what to do. Fck off old lady.
Ah!!! Don't we all just love today's genteel manners, today's careful approach to language and expression.
And by the way, if our beloved friend Zero can get away with calling me "sweet Martha," I can get away with calling you "pal."
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
-
This is a good example of "shoot where you are with what you have as best you can."
Any decent photographer who happens to live in Ukraine could make a killing (so to speak) shooting editorial images right now. Assuming they survive their encounters with Russian rockets, tanks, and troops.
But for the rest of us, Just Another Photographer has it absolutely right. The soldiers (both Ukrainian and Russian) who will die and the Ukrainian civiliians who are now forced into refugee status to avoid being killed or captured and brutalized are the ones we should focus on (so to speak). Whatever lost income may result from this unfortunate situation is a minor concern in the grand scheme of things.
Editorials will contribute for the future court in Hague.
Good point! Like you, I think the trials to come from this will make for sad-but-spectacular television.
-
Already stock markets are crashing, oil prices are rocketing up and COVID is still in the mix.
Recession next?
Ugh.
Putin enjoys sowing misery and chaos. It's the one thing he does very well.
So now he's having his way with the whole world, spreading misery and chaos everywhere, not just in Ukraine (although for sure they are getting the worst of it).
I'm sure he's loving it.
Very biased. Guilt goes to NATO and American politics. They have caused this tragedy and only Europe will experience tragedy. Sad but true.
Keep drinking the Putin kool aid Russian botnik ;D
I'm not pro Russian. I just try to observe the world with open eyes. Try yourself sometimes. It helps. ;)
Perhaps you'd like to explain what your open eyes have taught you to the rest of us*.
I take it to the Off-topic forum, though.
I am aware that Trump has praised Putin: "He is pretty smart. He’s taken over a country for $2 worth of sanctions,... really a vast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people — and just walking right in.”
Him against the rest?! Do you see how you put it? And he explained it to you, and the rest, whoever the rest are. The reason Russia had to take this action is because NATO (read -US) was planning to bring Ukraine in NATO, which means US army on Russian borders. Anybody informed about military, geopolitics and anything related knows that is an extreme danger for Russia's safety. Russia warned NATO million times in the past years about this. Ukraine in NATO means balance of terror would be disturbed.
The war and the invasion and suffering of innocent people are horrible, but I don't remember this kind of hate (not strong word enough for what I see here) when US invaded - Iraq, Syria, Libya and Serbia. And killing of all those people there.
I'm so disappointed in this community, not because taking a side here - it can be easily explained, it is a side of a victim. But, for not taking the side of a victim in the previously mentioned invasions made by US.
Which makes it clear - it is a horrifying and an unbelievable hate of everything Russian.
I'm not Russian myself, but being someone who went through a lengthy war, and being on frontlines, and being hated by enemy and knowing how this hate ends (terror and massacre) it wouldn't surprise me that if you (and the rest, whoever the rest are) had a chance to be in the front of a captured Russian solder - you would torture him. I've been there, and I guarantee, after reading your words here - that you would torture a captured solder.
What nonsense. Countries have freed themselves from the Soviet Union because they no longer wanted to belong to it and for fear of Russia they joined the West.
Things weren't so cheerful under Stalin either. And also think of Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968.
We have absolutely nothing against the Russian people. It's just sad. I even wrote that we have a monument in the village in memory of the Russians, who died here together with the English against the French of Napoleon.
Ukraine itself has asked for membership, which has been refused.
Finland and Sweden, which are now also thinking of membership out of fear, are under threat.
But strange that as a new member you immediately join this discussion. Are you also going to talk about photos?
What do I think when I hear Putin calling a leader of Ukraine a Nazi, when the man is Jewish and has lost family in the second world war??
When I hear Putin say that it is an exercise and that troops are withdrawing??
Come on. He's just taking a piece of land like our ancient kings used to do
We Dutch should attack Flanders in Belgium because that used to belong to the Netherlands after all.
You talk like five year old. Complete nonsense. You skipped all the classes after elementary school. I'm not willing to get in conversation with you. I can talk about video if you want. This is not photos exclusive forum.
No, sorry.
Thijs does not talk like a five year old. What he says is not nonsense.
And in fact, his English is far better than yours.
What my English has to do with anything? Am I supposed to pass some kind of English language test of yours to be allowed to speak?
Hey, pal. Don't criticize how somebody else "talks" and then get all up in arms when one of us criticizes how you "talk."
I'm not your pal. And don't tell me what to do. Fck off old lady.
Ah!!! Don't we all just love today's genteel manners, today's careful approach to language and expression.
And by the way, if our beloved friend Zero can get away with calling me "sweet Martha," I can get away with calling you "pal."
:D :D :D:D :D :D:D :D :D:D :D :D:D :D :D:D :D :D:D :D :D:D :D :D:D :D :D
Ok, I'll call you pal Martha then. Go do something with your life now.
-
Already stock markets are crashing, oil prices are rocketing up and COVID is still in the mix.
Recession next?
Ugh.
Putin enjoys sowing misery and chaos. It's the one thing he does very well.
So now he's having his way with the whole world, spreading misery and chaos everywhere, not just in Ukraine (although for sure they are getting the worst of it).
I'm sure he's loving it.
Very biased. Guilt goes to NATO and American politics. They have caused this tragedy and only Europe will experience tragedy. Sad but true.
Keep drinking the Putin kool aid Russian botnik ;D
I'm not pro Russian. I just try to observe the world with open eyes. Try yourself sometimes. It helps. ;)
Perhaps you'd like to explain what your open eyes have taught you to the rest of us*.
I take it to the Off-topic forum, though.
I am aware that Trump has praised Putin: "He is pretty smart. He’s taken over a country for $2 worth of sanctions,... really a vast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people — and just walking right in.”
Him against the rest?! Do you see how you put it? And he explained it to you, and the rest, whoever the rest are. The reason Russia had to take this action is because NATO (read -US) was planning to bring Ukraine in NATO, which means US army on Russian borders. Anybody informed about military, geopolitics and anything related knows that is an extreme danger for Russia's safety. Russia warned NATO million times in the past years about this. Ukraine in NATO means balance of terror would be disturbed.
The war and the invasion and suffering of innocent people are horrible, but I don't remember this kind of hate (not strong word enough for what I see here) when US invaded - Iraq, Syria, Libya and Serbia. And killing of all those people there.
I'm so disappointed in this community, not because taking a side here - it can be easily explained, it is a side of a victim. But, for not taking the side of a victim in the previously mentioned invasions made by US.
Which makes it clear - it is a horrifying and an unbelievable hate of everything Russian.
I'm not Russian myself, but being someone who went through a lengthy war, and being on frontlines, and being hated by enemy and knowing how this hate ends (terror and massacre) it wouldn't surprise me that if you (and the rest, whoever the rest are) had a chance to be in the front of a captured Russian solder - you would torture him. I've been there, and I guarantee, after reading your words here - that you would torture a captured solder.
What nonsense. Countries have freed themselves from the Soviet Union because they no longer wanted to belong to it and for fear of Russia they joined the West.
Things weren't so cheerful under Stalin either. And also think of Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968.
We have absolutely nothing against the Russian people. It's just sad. I even wrote that we have a monument in the village in memory of the Russians, who died here together with the English against the French of Napoleon.
Ukraine itself has asked for membership, which has been refused.
Finland and Sweden, which are now also thinking of membership out of fear, are under threat.
But strange that as a new member you immediately join this discussion. Are you also going to talk about photos?
What do I think when I hear Putin calling a leader of Ukraine a Nazi, when the man is Jewish and has lost family in the second world war??
When I hear Putin say that it is an exercise and that troops are withdrawing??
Come on. He's just taking a piece of land like our ancient kings used to do
We Dutch should attack Flanders in Belgium because that used to belong to the Netherlands after all.
You talk like five year old. Complete nonsense. You skipped all the classes after elementary school. I'm not willing to get in conversation with you. I can talk about video if you want. This is not photos exclusive forum.
He is a Jew, but also a cocaine addict. used to play piano with his d.ck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbmZrzN3WFE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbmZrzN3WFE)
Not a serious individual at all, installed by US.
I already had removed the comment about photos. But it surprised me a bit. Also because you regularly read about trolls.
I have been a teacher for thirty years and 72. Then you will say you are getting too old and you must have been a bad teacher. ;)
As for what I wrote. There is no falsehood in that.
But I don't want to argue with you any further. Keep fantasizing.
Nice long thread, lets make it longer. Oh, another oldy. I really didn't know what I'm getting involved in here. What a waste of time arguing with a bunch of nursing home residents.
-
And by the way, if our beloved friend Zero can get away with calling me "sweet Martha," I can get away with calling you "pal."
Here you go, sweet Martha!
I am happy to see you standing up against Putin's propaganda!
This is much better than unnecessarily jumping in to defend your naive buddies, who either hope that Putin will stop here, or from their Putin gas warmed homes find excuses for the lack of action and cowardness of their elected politicians, or still think that Europe can't do much to stop him after he "check-mated" :o the world. ::)
I'm happy to see you realizing that Putin's propaganda is your enemy, not the realism of the current situation.
Proud of you!
:-*
-
'Nice long thread, lets make it longer. Oh, another oldy. I really didn't know what I'm getting involved in here. What a waste of time arguing with a bunch of nursing home residents'.
[/quote]
Aks1 - there is one English word it would benefit you to learn. It's 'respect'. You may not recognise it.
Once you have learned the meaning, and as you move towards adulthood, you will find that if you show it to others, it will be returned to you.
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'Nice long thread, lets make it longer. Oh, another oldy. I really didn't know what I'm getting involved in here. What a waste of time arguing with a bunch of nursing home residents'.
Aks1 - there is one English word it would benefit you to learn. It's 'respect'. You may not recognise it.
Once you have learned the meaning, and as you move towards adulthood, you will find that if you show it to others, it will be returned to you.
Perfect response, DO!!! My hat's off to you (to use a very old, positively ancient term that the youngsters around here probably won't recognize).
Yes, "respect" would be a good word to introduce into a few vocabularies here, but I have a sneaking suspicion that will never happen.
The truth is, however, we old, feeble-minded, "nursing home residents" — including those like me who hang out in spectacular natural areas for weeks at a time in our campers, "shooting" birds and other wild critters with our video cameras and 500mm lenses — do still have enough wits about us to respond to smart alecks on internet forums.
And I also have a sneaking suspicion that you and I, along with Uncle Pete and a few others, could verbally slash and burn all those young whippersnappers who think we should just be put out to pasture.
Here's to experience, good judgment, reasonably decent manners, and basic old-fashioned smarts! :D
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Don't forget the rocket crisis. USA didn't allowed Russian missiles to be installed on Kuba, right? Would Americans have attacked back then? Hell yes.
On the photo Belgrade 1999 after NATO bombing.
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Don't forget the rocket crisis. USA didn't allowed Russian missiles to be installed on Kuba, right? Would Americans have attacked back then? Hell yes.
On the photo Belgrade 1999 after NATO bombing.
#whataboutism, #putinpropaganda
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'Here's to experience, good judgment, reasonably decent manners, and basic old-fashioned smarts'! :D
I'll drink to that 🍻😊🥂
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Cathy, I’m concerned you might actually be suffering from a mental illness. Please try and get help. Hope you get better soon.
Thank you for your concern, even though it’s backhanded. Just wait. You’ll see. 😂 Did you bother to look up the WEF? The Great Reset? Those who live in the UK should understand, it’s happening there. I don’t expect many to come to my defense because no one wants to be called mentally ill. And most WILL think I'm crazy.
Remember the scoffing at #plandemic? Gosh, have you heard much about rona in the past week? It just magically disappeared! Of course you are going to say the vacseens eradicated it. Have you looked at the VAERS data on vacs injuries? No bet not. Have you seen that even the CDC is withholding info and backtracking? Have you seen that pfizzer and mod-er na stocks are dropping and investors are bailing?
rona = out war = in But you go ahead and stay blind. 😀
I’ll just leave this, just in case some have an open mind. Pay attention to the members, too.
https://www.weforum.org/partners/ (https://www.weforum.org/partners/)
Carry on.
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What nonsense. Countries have freed themselves from the Soviet Union because they no longer wanted to belong to it and for fear of Russia they joined the West.
Things weren't so cheerful under Stalin either. And also think of Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968.
We have absolutely nothing against the Russian people. It's just sad. I even wrote that we have a monument in the village in memory of the Russians, who died here together with the English against the French of Napoleon.
Ukraine itself has asked for membership, which has been refused.
Finland and Sweden, which are now also thinking of membership out of fear, are under threat.
But strange that as a new member you immediately join this discussion.
What do I think when I hear Putin calling a leader of Ukraine a Nazi, when the man is Jewish and has lost family in the second world war??
When I hear Putin say that it is an exercise and that troops are withdrawing??
Come on. He's just taking a piece of land like our ancient kings used to do
We Dutch should attack Flanders in Belgium because that used to belong to the Netherlands after all.
Actually, your answer doesn't have to do with a single fact he wrote and those are also valid points.
You talk about fear, how about fear from our European colonialism. There are still billions and billions Europe is exploiting from ex and current colonies as we speak. From countries where children are dying from hunger. How can they pull away from deals they were forced to sign?
You are speaking about fear in 1968 and also mentioning Belgium.
Can you deny a fact that in that same Belgum in late 50s still had human zoo-s where visitors nicely feed black people from hand like animals. In walking distance from todays EU Commision headquarters.
Just that same Belgium killed between 10-15 million Africans in their colonies. In the times when world had 4 time less population. In today numbers that would mean extinction a whole population of a country like Ukraine. In whole WWII 70M people lost their life and a small country like Belgium manage to have 20% of that number of deaths from 1885 to 1908 in places that were unable to defend themself.
When we are already in those times, wanna talk about Duch in Indonesia ?
The only difference is that Russia holds the power so then can behave like this. Some others might be even worse in their shoes.
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Don't forget the rocket crisis. USA didn't allowed Russian missiles to be installed on Kuba, right? Would Americans have attacked back then? Hell yes.
On the photo Belgrade 1999 after NATO bombing.
#whataboutism, #putinpropaganda
OMG, my sweet, dearly beloved old pal Zero… we are in total agreement there!!!!
How in he'll could that possibly have happened????
-
And by the way, if our beloved friend Zero can get away with calling me "sweet Martha," I can get away with calling you "pal."
Here you go, sweet Martha!
I am happy to see you standing up against Putin's propaganda!
This is much better than unnecessarily jumping in to defend your naive buddies, who either hope that Putin will stop here, or from their Putin gas warmed homes find excuses for the lack of action and cowerdness of their elected politicians, or still think that Europe can't do much to stop him, after he "check-mated" :o the world. ::)
I'm happy to see you realizing that Putin's propaganda is your enemy, not the realism of the current situation.
Proud of you!
:-*
As you appear not to feel that Russia having the largest stash of nuclear weapons in the world should be sufficient deterrent for Europe (with regard to 'on the ground' action), what do you think Europe should do?
As a European yourself, living in the US, do you have such a strong opinion of what the US is not doing?
All you do is criticize/attack the members of the forum (and 'Europe'), usually by sarcastic means, instead of direct constructive conversation.
Please answer directly, not like your usual answers, ie avoiding the question and making an unrelated statement.
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What nonsense. Countries have freed themselves from the Soviet Union because they no longer wanted to belong to it and for fear of Russia they joined the West.
Things weren't so cheerful under Stalin either. And also think of Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968.
We have absolutely nothing against the Russian people. It's just sad. I even wrote that we have a monument in the village in memory of the Russians, who died here together with the English against the French of Napoleon.
Ukraine itself has asked for membership, which has been refused.
Finland and Sweden, which are now also thinking of membership out of fear, are under threat.
But strange that as a new member you immediately join this discussion.
What do I think when I hear Putin calling a leader of Ukraine a Nazi, when the man is Jewish and has lost family in the second world war??
When I hear Putin say that it is an exercise and that troops are withdrawing??
Come on. He's just taking a piece of land like our ancient kings used to do
We Dutch should attack Flanders in Belgium because that used to belong to the Netherlands after all.
Actually, your answer doesn't have to do with a single fact he wrote and those are also valid points.
You talk about fear, how about fear from our European colonialism. There are still billions and billions Europe is exploiting from ex and current colonies as we speak. From countries where children are dying from hunger. How can they pull away from deals they were forced to sign?
You are speaking about fear in 1968 and also mentioning Belgium.
Can you deny a fact that in that same Belgum in late 50s still had human zoo-s where visitors nicely feed black people from hand like animals. In walking distance from todays EU Commision headquarters.
Just that same Belgium killed between 10-15 million Africans in their colonies. In the times when world had 4 time less population. In today numbers that would mean extinction a whole population of a country like Ukraine. In whole WWII 70M people lost their life and a small country like Belgium manage to have 20% of that number of deaths from 1885 to 1908 in places that were unable to defend themself.
When we are already in those times, wanna talk about Duch in Indonesia ?
The only difference is that Russia holds the power so then can behave like this. Some others might be even worse in their shoes.
I mentioned that, because Putin stated that he has the right to invade Ukraine based on history, when Ukraine was still part of Russia. He calls his army a liberation army.
If you reason in this way, you can also say that the Netherlands has a right to Flanders because it belonged to the Nederlands. Which of course is nonsense, because you can turn back history. We get on well with each other. That could also have happened between the Ukrainians and the Russians. Not anymore I'm afraid.
Aks1 wrote that we wanted Ukraine to join NATO, even though that was their request not us Wich was refused. So he was wrong. (The reason Russia had to take this action is because NATO (read -US) was planning to bring Ukraine in NATO, which means US army on Russian borders).
Perhaps Putin should have paid less attention to building a super army and more to good neighborly relations.
That is why I mention the example with Czechoslovakia that does not want to go back after that raid. Those countries seek protection by requesting affiliation with NATO and not the other way around. Out of fear and not because NATO is whining if they would please join. And that fear now turns out to be justified.
I know the Belgian Congo, of course, just like Indonesia and slavery in the Netherlands. Every country has its history that it is not proud of. There are also many discussions about the recent mistakes such as Indonesia. Also in the worthless way in which the indonesian refugees were received at the time. Also because a large part of the population now (just like my children) has Indonesian roots.
But do you mean that you have no right to criticize another country? Not if you don't pay attention to your own flaws. Then you are right.
The problem is that the countries that have left the Soviet Union do not want to go back.
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The war and the invasion and suffering of innocent people are horrible, but I don't remember this kind of hate (not strong word enough for what I see here) when US invaded - Iraq, Syria, Libya and Serbia. And killing of all those people there.
I'm so disappointed in this community, not because taking a side here - it can be easily explained, it is a side of a victim. But, for not taking the side of a victim in the previously mentioned invasions made by US...
how can you 'remember' anything about this forum when you first showed up 3 weeks ago?
Get you history straight - the US never invaded Syria, Libya or Serbia. The US did participate in the NATO bombings in response to Serbia's ethnic cleansing of Kosovo and a NATO led intervention in Libya which did not include ground troops
as far as other US invasions/interventions, many of us have a long history of opposition to US actions abroad - mine started with organizing against the Vietnam war as a conscientious objector
Which makes it clear - it is a horrifying and an unbelievable hate of everything Russian.
Please quote the comments here that expressed hate for "everything Russian."
it wouldn't surprise me that if you (and the rest, whoever the rest are) had a chance to be in the front of a captured Russian solder - you would torture him. I've been there, and I guarantee, after reading your words here - that you would torture a captured solder.
what despicable nonsense!
-
I mentioned that, because Putin stated that he has the right to invade Ukraine based on history, when Ukraine was still part of Russia. He calls his army a liberation army.
If you reason in this way, you can also say that the Netherlands has a right to Flanders because it belonged to the Nederlands. Which of course is nonsense, because you can turn back history. We get on well with each other. That could also have happened between the Ukrainians and the Russians. Not anymore I'm afraid.
Aks1 wrote that we wanted Ukraine to join NATO, even though that was their request not us Wich was refused. So he was wrong. (The reason Russia had to take this action is because NATO (read -US) was planning to bring Ukraine in NATO, which means US army on Russian borders).
Perhaps Putin should have paid less attention to building a super army and more to good neighborly relations.
That is why I mention the example with Czechoslovakia that does not want to go back after that raid. Those countries seek protection by requesting affiliation with NATO and not the other way around. Out of fear and not because NATO is whining if they would please join. And that fear now turns out to be justified.
I know the Belgian Congo, of course, just like Indonesia and slavery in the Netherlands. Every country has its history that it is not proud of. There are also many discussions about the recent mistakes such as Indonesia. Also in the worthless way in which the indonesian refugees were received at the time. Also because a large part of the population now (just like my children) has Indonesian roots.
But do you mean that you have no right to criticize another country? Not if you don't pay attention to your own flaws. Then you are right.
The problem is that the countries that have left the Soviet Union do not want to go back.
I wrote that cause you got back in 68, but we can agree that the western world has and is doing things beyond imagination of a sane mind. Same and worst than Putin ot USSR back then.
But its a fact that USSR fell apart on some terms, and Russia enter some disarming negotiations under some terms. NATO was never about to include anything eastern from Germany.
Its also a fact that Ukraine had some peace treaties with Russia which they abandoned with positive reinforcement from the west. Openly calling for joining NATO and for installing western rocket systems at the gate of dominant nuclear power country is a stupid political thing to do. And now they see that that same west wont risk their faith for them.
And politically, dancing between west and the east can bring you tremendous benefits. Tito showed that pretty well in his time. Ukraine should have used that card way better and realize they are not in the position to play with the future depending on a mood of few psychopaths that want them in their team.
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how can you 'remember' anything about this forum when you first showed up 3 weeks ago?
Well I joined 2 years before you and I still dont remember that the reaction on those acts were the same as now because they were not.
There were not 3 sentences written when it happened in Lybia. You think their lives are worth less?
You can always dig them out, put a link and prove me wrong. ;)
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The war and the invasion and suffering of innocent people are horrible, but I don't remember this kind of hate (not strong word enough for what I see here) when US invaded - Iraq, Syria, Libya and Serbia. And killing of all those people there.
I'm so disappointed in this community, not because taking a side here - it can be easily explained, it is a side of a victim. But, for not taking the side of a victim in the previously mentioned invasions made by US...
how can you 'remember' anything about this forum when you first showed up 3 weeks ago?
Maybe this Aks1 dude (or, less likely, dudette) is one of our old buddies from days gone by… one of those who pops up, spouts off, and then disappears never to be seen again, until somebody who sounds just like him reappears, spouts off… only to disappear again.
We saw some of that during last year's overheaded vaccine debate, as I recall.
Funny how that works, ain't it?
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Get you history straight - the US never invaded Syria, Libya or Serbia. The US did participate in the NATO bombings in response to Serbia's ethnic cleansing of Kosovo and a NATO led intervention in Libya which did not include ground troops
This is a civil hospital "Dragisa Misovic" after NATO intervention...think about that
(https://i.ibb.co/6FVYPdg/hosp.jpg)
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2022/02/24/national-vaccine-quietly-rolled-out/ (https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2022/02/24/national-vaccine-quietly-rolled-out/)
From Forbes: National Vaccine ID Quietly Rolled Out. Some red states on board.
Look! Over there! War in Ukraine!
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https://www.weforum.org/people/vladimir-putin (https://www.weforum.org/people/vladimir-putin)
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https://www.weforum.org/videos/12h00-specialaddress-vladimir-putin-s1-trimmed (https://www.weforum.org/videos/12h00-specialaddress-vladimir-putin-s1-trimmed)
-
...
NATO was never about to include anything eastern from Germany.
''
a massive HUH? putting aside Greece & Turkey which were early members of NATO, which of these countires do you think are west of Germany?
Have you looked at a map?
- Bulgaria
Estonia
Hungary
Lithuania
Monténégro
North Macedonia
Poland
Romania
Slovakia
Slovenia
and while not completely east of a united Germany
-
...
NATO was never about to include anything eastern from Germany.
''
a massive HUH? putting aside Greece & Turkey which were early members of NATO, which of these countires do you think are west of Germany?
Have you looked at a map?
- Bulgaria
Estonia
Hungary
Lithuania
Monténégro
North Macedonia
Poland
Romania
Slovakia
Slovenia
and while not completely east of a united Germany
Why didn't you quote the full sentence ?
Its exactly what Im saying. Russians claim that they pulled back from their demands in 1990 cause they got that promise which wasn't kept in all this examples. And now even discussing Ukraine joining NATO as a land at their gates means enough.
You seriously think they would let that the Berlin wall falls and fallout of eastern block without their intervention for nothing in exchange ?
Even if it was unwritten, Ukraine recently pulled out from their official peace treaty ( "the Big Treaty") with Russia which was among other things preventing them to join NATO and bring it to Russias gates.
I doubt maniacs on the other side of the globe would reacted differently if they planned to bring their "defence" on those gates. For someone in between, the are acting absolutely the same.
For the one valuing some lifes more than others there is just one evil.
And also, at the latest case, Croatian referendum law was changed for a month so they can be pulled in NATO because majority of people didn't even vent out to vote on referendum which is crucial for a country entering in international unions. Same goes for their joining EU when less than 50% of people voted. As soon that was taken care of the law was changed back and had to have turnover over 50% to be lawful.
And thats how people are willingly joining unions.
What if referendum fails ? They hold it again and again and again...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia%E2%80%93NATO_relations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatia%E2%80%93NATO_relations)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Croatian_European_Union_membership_referendum[/img (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Croatian_European_Union_membership_referendum[/img)
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Don't forget the rocket crisis. USA didn't allowed Russian missiles to be installed on Kuba, right? Would Americans have attacked back then? Hell yes.
On the photo Belgrade 1999 after NATO bombing.
#whataboutism, #putinpropaganda
OMG, my sweet, dearly beloved old pal Zero… we are in total agreement there!!!!
How in he'll could that possibly have happened????
No worries, my dear. Some people are secondary and need more time to realize the obvious. I understand that.
Moreover, simple hashtags may sometimes cut through onomatopoeic noises and get straight to the essence of an argument.
Love!
:-*
-
And by the way, if our beloved friend Zero can get away with calling me "sweet Martha," I can get away with calling you "pal."
Here you go, sweet Martha!
I am happy to see you standing up against Putin's propaganda!
This is much better than unnecessarily jumping in to defend your naive buddies, who either hope that Putin will stop here, or from their Putin gas warmed homes find excuses for the lack of action and cowerdness of their elected politicians, or still think that Europe can't do much to stop him, after he "check-mated" :o the world. ::)
I'm happy to see you realizing that Putin's propaganda is your enemy, not the realism of the current situation.
Proud of you!
:-*
As you appear not to feel that Russia having the largest stash of nuclear weapons in the world should be sufficient deterrent for Europe (with regard to 'on the ground' action), what do you think Europe should do?
As a European yourself, living in the US, do you have such a strong opinion of what the US is not doing?
All you do is criticize/attack the members of the forum (and 'Europe'), usually by sarcastic means, instead of direct constructive conversation.
Please answer directly, not like your usual answers, ie avoiding the question and making an unrelated statement.
What about The USA, you ask? #whataboutism much? Be careful, my sweet Martha may agree with me on this one! ;)
But since you asked, for starters, The USA could lead the others towards a no-fly zone above Ukraine, as we did in Bosnia, Lybia, etc...
And yes, I expect much more from Europe with war is at its gates than from a country 5000 miles away. The USA should stop being the policeman of the world and Europe should grow up and assume more responsibilities when it comes to its own safety.
Besides, you keep on bringing the number of nuclear weapons in the discussion, as it matters. No, it doesn't! One is more than enough to kill tens of millions. Ok, you might need one or two as a backup in case of malfunction, but there is no difference between the 200 owned by The UK and the 6000 owned by Russia.
Nuclear weapons are not there to be used but to deter their use, as you recently found out when you discovered that Nash equilibrium theory.
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https://www.weforum.org/people/vladimir-putin (https://www.weforum.org/people/vladimir-putin)
Amnesty International's summary of the Human Rights situation in the Russian Federation:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/europe-and-central-asia/russian-federation/report-russian-federation (https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/europe-and-central-asia/russian-federation/report-russian-federation)
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But since you asked, for starters, The USA could lead the others towards a no-fly zone above Ukraine, as we did in Bosnia, Lybia, etc...
And yes, I expect much more from Europe with war is at its gates than from a country 5000 miles away. The USA should stop being the policeman of the world and Europe should grow up and assume more responsibilities when it comes to its own safety.
...
which is it? should the US stay out or impose a no-fly zone ? (which would be an act of war, certainly once they shoot down a Russian plane
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But since you asked, for starters, The USA could lead the others towards a no-fly zone above Ukraine, as we did in Bosnia, Lybia, etc...
And yes, I expect much more from Europe with war is at its gates than from a country 5000 miles away. The USA should stop being the policeman of the world and Europe should grow up and assume more responsibilities when it comes to its own safety.
...
which is it? should the US stay out or impose a no-fly zone ? (which would be an act of war, certainly once they shoot down a Russian plane
Ok, I'll repeat myself: as I said above, it can be done like it was done in Bosnia, Libya, etc. If it was possible then, when it was easy in front of a weak enemy, it should be also possible today, even if the enemy is stronger.
It's a matter of principle, or else it's just hypocrisy.
At the same time, I am expecting more from Europe.
-
But since you asked, for starters, The USA could lead the others towards a no-fly zone above Ukraine, as we did in Bosnia, Lybia, etc...
And yes, I expect much more from Europe with war is at its gates than from a country 5000 miles away. The USA should stop being the policeman of the world and Europe should grow up and assume more responsibilities when it comes to its own safety.
...
which is it? should the US stay out or impose a no-fly zone ? (which would be an act of war, certainly once they shoot down a Russian plane
Ok, I'll repeat myself: as I said above, it can be done like it was done in Bosnia, Libya, etc. If it was possible then, when it was easy in front of a weak enemy, it should be also possible today, even if the enemy is stronger.
It's a matter of principle, or else it's just hypocrisy.
At the same time, I am expecting more from Europe.
You know you can sign up and go to fight as a volunteer ? First group from my country just left today. So Im expecting you to go and help. Keep us informed.
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What about The USA, you ask? #whataboutism much? Be careful, my sweet Martha may agree with me on this one! ;)
Not likely, O Beloved One. Such miracles are likely to occur only every decade or two.
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You know you can sign up and go to fight as a volunteer ? First group from my country just left today. So Im expecting you to go and help. Keep us informed.
Good one, Lizard!
Actually, I suspect your proposal could be offered to all the super-macho, testosterone-fueled youngsters who hang out on this fun-and-feisty forum.
And they, in response, would rush gladly and enthusiastically to the Ukrainian trenches to defend Democracy and Freedom.
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People still think Russia can be stopped easily like some banana republic putting them in the same sentence with Serbia or Libya.
Comparing Russias forces with US Army, they have total dominance in land forces with double amount of tanks and 4x more artillery and almost double reserve personnel.
US has double aircraft but thats also misleading because Russia has almost double fighter aircrafts.
If you exclude aircraftcarriers which they don't need considering they are at home they coul even playball at the sea but as I said, they dont need to enter that fight.
So the only way US Army can pair them is in the air but on neutral territory. Being close to their air defense systems they would stand no chance.
Having 10 times bigger budget doesn't mean nothing here. Even without using nuclear weapons, of which they have 6500 and 1600 of them deployed they are equal contender.
No one is going to play war with them probably even if they would attack a smaller NATO member, because you can not win against them and if you do...it means the world is about to end.
And that's a fact dear internet warriors.
https://armedforces.eu/compare/country_USA_vs_Russia (https://armedforces.eu/compare/country_USA_vs_Russia)
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You know you can sign up and go to fight as a volunteer ? First group from my country just left today. So Im expecting you to go and help. Keep us informed.
Good one, Lizard!
Actually, I suspect your proposal could be offered to all the super-macho, testosterone-fueled youngsters who hang out on this fun-and-feisty forum.
They obviously have not seen war from close.
This has to be ended whatever the price and Ukraine will sign a treaty sooner than later, they will not join NATO and they should have accepted that at the first place because its a small price to pay to avoid a drop of innocent blood being spilled.
Putin has showed his muscles, the only question is how insane he is and how far is he ready to go, but as I said I expect a treaty and a end of this sooner than later before more people die.
He can be isolated, economically sanctioned...whatever, but we should keep the armies and NATO rockets away from him and don't stick our fingers in electric plug. Cause the world is in stake here and Russia is all but a joke.
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NATO was never about to include anything eastern from Germany.
This is simply not true. You got duped by Putin's propaganda! :o
And you are dragging with you some naive fellow contributors who should have known better (including my sweet Martha, unfortunately) :-\
Sad.
I dare you to produce the treaty containing this clause. Because there is none!
"While there was indeed discussion between Mr. Baker and the Soviet leader Mikhail S. Gorbachev in the months after the fall of the Berlin Wall about limiting NATO jurisdiction if East and West Germany were reunited, no such provision was included in the final treaty signed by the Americans, Europeans, and Russians."
It was only a "what if" during negotiations. No such clause made it in the final agreement!
On the other hand:
"In fact, while Mr. Putin accuses the United States of breaking an agreement it never made, Russia has violated an agreement it actually did make with regard to Ukraine. In 1994, after the Soviet Union broke apart, Russia signed an accord along with the United States and Britain called the Budapest Memorandum, in which the newly independent Ukraine gave up 1,900 nuclear warheads in exchange for a commitment from Moscow “to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine” and “to refrain from the threat or use of force” against the country."
Get your facts straight, Lizard.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/09/us/politics/russia-ukraine-james-baker.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/09/us/politics/russia-ukraine-james-baker.html)
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Already stock markets are crashing, oil prices are rocketing up and COVID is still in the mix.
Recession next?
Ugh.
Putin enjoys sowing misery and chaos. It's the one thing he does very well.
So now he's having his way with the whole world, spreading misery and chaos everywhere, not just in Ukraine (although for sure they are getting the worst of it).
I'm sure he's loving it.
Very biased. Guilt goes to NATO and American politics. They have caused this tragedy and only Europe will experience tragedy. Sad but true.
Keep drinking the Putin kool aid Russian botnik ;D
I'm not pro Russian. I just try to observe the world with open eyes. Try yourself sometimes. It helps. ;)
Perhaps you'd like to explain what your open eyes have taught you to the rest of us*.
I take it to the Off-topic forum, though.
I am aware that Trump has praised Putin: "He is pretty smart. He’s taken over a country for $2 worth of sanctions,... really a vast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people — and just walking right in.”
Him against the rest?! Do you see how you put it? And he explained it to you, and the rest, whoever the rest are. The reason Russia had to take this action is because NATO (read -US) was planning to bring Ukraine in NATO, which means US army on Russian borders. Anybody informed about military, geopolitics and anything related knows that is an extreme danger for Russia's safety. Russia warned NATO million times in the past years about this. Ukraine in NATO means balance of terror would be disturbed.
The war and the invasion and suffering of innocent people are horrible, but I don't remember this kind of hate (not strong word enough for what I see here) when US invaded - Iraq, Syria, Libya and Serbia. And killing of all those people there.
I'm so disappointed in this community, not because taking a side here - it can be easily explained, it is a side of a victim. But, for not taking the side of a victim in the previously mentioned invasions made by US.
Which makes it clear - it is a horrifying and an unbelievable hate of everything Russian.
I'm not Russian myself, but being someone who went through a lengthy war, and being on frontlines, and being hated by enemy and knowing how this hate ends (terror and massacre) it wouldn't surprise me that if you (and the rest, whoever the rest are) had a chance to be in the front of a captured Russian solder - you would torture him. I've been there, and I guarantee, after reading your words here - that you would torture a captured solder.
What nonsense. Countries have freed themselves from the Soviet Union because they no longer wanted to belong to it and for fear of Russia they joined the West.
Things weren't so cheerful under Stalin either. And also think of Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968.
We have absolutely nothing against the Russian people. It's just sad. I even wrote that we have a monument in the village in memory of the Russians, who died here together with the English against the French of Napoleon.
Ukraine itself has asked for membership, which has been refused.
Finland and Sweden, which are now also thinking of membership out of fear, are under threat.
But strange that as a new member you immediately join this discussion. Are you also going to talk about photos?
What do I think when I hear Putin calling a leader of Ukraine a Nazi, when the man is Jewish and has lost family in the second world war??
When I hear Putin say that it is an exercise and that troops are withdrawing??
Come on. He's just taking a piece of land like our ancient kings used to do
We Dutch should attack Flanders in Belgium because that used to belong to the Netherlands after all.
You talk like five year old. Complete nonsense. You skipped all the classes after elementary school. I'm not willing to get in conversation with you. I can talk about video if you want. This is not photos exclusive forum.
He is a Jew, but also a cocaine addict. used to play piano with his d.ck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbmZrzN3WFE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbmZrzN3WFE)
Not a serious individual at all, installed by US.
I already had removed the comment about photos. But it surprised me a bit. Also because you regularly read about trolls.
I have been a teacher for thirty years and 72. Then you will say you are getting too old and you must have been a bad teacher. ;)
As for what I wrote. There is no falsehood in that.
But I don't want to argue with you any further. Keep fantasizing.
Nice long thread, lets make it longer. Oh, another oldy. I really didn't know what I'm getting involved in here. What a waste of time arguing with a bunch of nursing home residents.
Spoken like true Putin kool aid drinking Botski ;D
Now get back to posting on RT's comments section ;D
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You know you can sign up and go to fight as a volunteer ? First group from my country just left today. So Im expecting you to go and help. Keep us informed.
Good one, Lizard!
Actually, I suspect your proposal could be offered to all the super-macho, testosterone-fueled youngsters who hang out on this fun-and-feisty forum.
They obviously have not seen war from close.
You're right about that. And as a followup, I’ll add a few personal notes.
Much has been made here (primarily by arrogant humans of the male persuasion) of the fact that I’m an old lady. Possibly even a senile nursing-home resident. Clearly, someone like me — ie, an older female, Zero's "sweet Martha" and "dear" one — has nothing whatsoever to contribute to this momentous thread and therefore should just shut down her laptop and go tend to her knitting and cookie-baking.
Well. Just for the record…
Yes, I may be the oldest person actively participating on this forum. I’m proud of my happy and successful 75-year (so far) life.
Here are a few highlights solely related to the subject of war.
I was born in July 1946, precisely 9 months after my career-Army-officer father returned from 4 years in Europe. He had been 2nd in command of a tank destroyer unit that was widely credited with taking out many of Hitler's war machines. He also happened to be present at the liberation of Dachau Concentration Camp in April 1945.
In 1950-51, he also served in the early stages of the Korean War. My mother and I remained at home, praying that he’d come home again.
Between 1951-54, we lived in Heidelberg, Germany and traveled all over Western Europe. Never ventured behind the “Iron Curtain,” so I can’t speak to that. But I did get up-close views of bombed out cities everywhere we went. And I also experienced the gratitude and friendship of local people in France, Belgium, Holland, England and elsewhere, even in Germany. It was a great time to be an American in Europe.
So perhaps it’s not far fetched to say that, while I never personally served in a war, I’ve heard more real-life war stories and seen more of the dreadful impacts of war than many/most people alive today.
Including those commenting on this thread. ;)
I find it ironic that, having arrived in this world at the end of WW II, I now risk going out in the middle or end of WW III.
I pray that heroic President Zelenskyy, his family, and his allies will survive Putin’s goon squads. I ache for the millions of ordinary Ukrainians who will either die or be uprooted, perhaps never to return to their homeland.
I fear for my own country, too, and for the Europe I remember so fondly (not just from childhood but from many trips as an adult), and for the whole world, because it seems we’re a hair’s breadth from some new major catastrophe that, given the intractable hatreds and growing “improvements” in weaponry and cyber technology, could end life on Earth.
These are scary times, my friends. (And yes, my very dear, sweet Zero, I include you in that category, too.)
So maybe we all can turn our energies to more productive purposes (photography anybody?) than squabbling and insulting one another on this forum!
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NATO was never about to include anything eastern from Germany.
This is simply not true. You got duped by Putin's propaganda! :o
And you are dragging with you some naive fellow contributors who should have known better (including my sweet Martha, unfortunately) :-\
Sad.
Get your facts straight, Lizard.
Yes, me... and the last U.S. ambassador in USSR Jack Matlock who stated in congressional testimony that Gorbachev had received assurances that if Germany united, and stayed in NATO, the borders of NATO would not move eastward.
And he is still claiming the same as you may see for yourself coming from his mouth:
https://youtu.be/fsT8OBroCEE?t=1110 (https://youtu.be/fsT8OBroCEE?t=1110)
So now US ambassadors are also spreading Putin propaganda. ;)
Sad, but a guy who managed to set US elections on FB adds can probably easily get an ambassador under his wing. ;D
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https://www.rferl.org/a/nato-expansion-russia-mislead/ (https://www.rferl.org/a/nato-expansion-russia-mislead/)
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But since you asked, for starters, The USA could lead the others towards a no-fly zone above Ukraine, as we did in Bosnia, Lybia, etc...
And yes, I expect much more from Europe with war is at its gates than from a country 5000 miles away. The USA should stop being the policeman of the world and Europe should grow up and assume more responsibilities when it comes to its own safety.
...
which is it? should the US stay out or impose a no-fly zone ? (which would be an act of war, certainly once they shoot down a Russian plane
Ok, I'll repeat myself: as I said above, it can be done like it was done in Bosnia, Libya, etc. If it was possible then, when it was easy in front of a weak enemy, it should be also possible today, even if the enemy is stronger.
It's a matter of principle, or else it's just hypocrisy.
At the same time, I am expecting more from Europe.
WHAT??
In all of your posts, and despite me asking you again and again, you still haven't said what you believe 'Europe' should do....
If you are so happy to attack members of this forum and 'Europe' or whoever/whatever it is your are attacking (difficult to tell sometimes) what is it exactly you believe should be happening that isn't (and by whom)??
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Don't forget the rocket crisis. USA didn't allowed Russian missiles to be installed on Kuba, right? Would Americans have attacked back then? Hell yes.
On the photo Belgrade 1999 after NATO bombing.
#whataboutism, #putinpropaganda
#icantthink #americanpropaganda
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Finally Russia have send a clear message: dear Americans, your time as world policeman is over. You have been dropping bombs on Syria, Iraq, Libya, Serbia, Vietnam, Japan, etc., but it stops right now. What you gonna do? Will you crap your pants? Yes you will.
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Finally Russia have send a clear message: dear Americans, your time as world policeman is over. You have been dropping bombs on Syria, Iraq, Libya, Serbia, Vietnam, Japan, etc., but it stops right now. What you gonna do? Will you crap your pants? Yes you will.
Weird, is not it? Of course you don't agree with that either.
Hadn't Russia dropped a few bombs on Syria too? At hospitals. Oh no, they denied that. And we've never caught them in a lie. A Dutch plane shot out of the sky. Oh no, they denied that too.
Ukraine attacked. Oh no, that was an exercise. Oh no, but it is an army of peace. Which country kills its own countrymen?
Coincidentally, I am now listening to a Dutch journalist, who has lived in Russia for thirty years, wrote that this would not happen and is now in shock that a brother nation is being murdered. like many of his Russians friends are in shock he said.
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Already stock markets are crashing, oil prices are rocketing up and COVID is still in the mix.
Recession next?
Ugh.
Putin enjoys sowing misery and chaos. It's the one thing he does very well.
So now he's having his way with the whole world, spreading misery and chaos everywhere, not just in Ukraine (although for sure they are getting the worst of it).
I'm sure he's loving it.
Very biased. Guilt goes to NATO and American politics. They have caused this tragedy and only Europe will experience tragedy. Sad but true.
Keep drinking the Putin kool aid Russian botnik ;D
I'm not pro Russian. I just try to observe the world with open eyes. Try yourself sometimes. It helps. ;)
Perhaps you'd like to explain what your open eyes have taught you to the rest of us*.
I take it to the Off-topic forum, though.
I am aware that Trump has praised Putin: "He is pretty smart. He’s taken over a country for $2 worth of sanctions,... really a vast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people — and just walking right in.”
Him against the rest?! Do you see how you put it? And he explained it to you, and the rest, whoever the rest are. The reason Russia had to take this action is because NATO (read -US) was planning to bring Ukraine in NATO, which means US army on Russian borders. Anybody informed about military, geopolitics and anything related knows that is an extreme danger for Russia's safety. Russia warned NATO million times in the past years about this. Ukraine in NATO means balance of terror would be disturbed.
The war and the invasion and suffering of innocent people are horrible, but I don't remember this kind of hate (not strong word enough for what I see here) when US invaded - Iraq, Syria, Libya and Serbia. And killing of all those people there.
I'm so disappointed in this community, not because taking a side here - it can be easily explained, it is a side of a victim. But, for not taking the side of a victim in the previously mentioned invasions made by US.
Which makes it clear - it is a horrifying and an unbelievable hate of everything Russian.
I'm not Russian myself, but being someone who went through a lengthy war, and being on frontlines, and being hated by enemy and knowing how this hate ends (terror and massacre) it wouldn't surprise me that if you (and the rest, whoever the rest are) had a chance to be in the front of a captured Russian solder - you would torture him. I've been there, and I guarantee, after reading your words here - that you would torture a captured solder.
What nonsense. Countries have freed themselves from the Soviet Union because they no longer wanted to belong to it and for fear of Russia they joined the West.
Things weren't so cheerful under Stalin either. And also think of Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968.
We have absolutely nothing against the Russian people. It's just sad. I even wrote that we have a monument in the village in memory of the Russians, who died here together with the English against the French of Napoleon.
Ukraine itself has asked for membership, which has been refused.
Finland and Sweden, which are now also thinking of membership out of fear, are under threat.
But strange that as a new member you immediately join this discussion. Are you also going to talk about photos?
What do I think when I hear Putin calling a leader of Ukraine a Nazi, when the man is Jewish and has lost family in the second world war??
When I hear Putin say that it is an exercise and that troops are withdrawing??
Come on. He's just taking a piece of land like our ancient kings used to do
We Dutch should attack Flanders in Belgium because that used to belong to the Netherlands after all.
You talk like five year old. Complete nonsense. You skipped all the classes after elementary school. I'm not willing to get in conversation with you. I can talk about video if you want. This is not photos exclusive forum.
He is a Jew, but also a cocaine addict. used to play piano with his d.ck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbmZrzN3WFE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbmZrzN3WFE)
Not a serious individual at all, installed by US.
I already had removed the comment about photos. But it surprised me a bit. Also because you regularly read about trolls.
I have been a teacher for thirty years and 72. Then you will say you are getting too old and you must have been a bad teacher. ;)
As for what I wrote. There is no falsehood in that.
But I don't want to argue with you any further. Keep fantasizing.
Nice long thread, lets make it longer. Oh, another oldy. I really didn't know what I'm getting involved in here. What a waste of time arguing with a bunch of nursing home residents.
Spoken like true Putin kool aid drinking Botski ;D
Now get back to posting on RT's comments section ;D
What an idiotic comment. Just because I defend Russia, you call me Putin's whatever. I least I'm not brainwashed like you on the west reading only what cnn and other fake news mafia serves you. Let's make this thread even longer.
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Finally Russia have send a clear message: dear Americans, your time as world policeman is over. You have been dropping bombs on Syria, Iraq, Libya, Serbia, Vietnam, Japan, etc., but it stops right now. What you gonna do? Will you crap your pants? Yes you will.
Weird, is not it? Of course you don't agree with that either.
Hadn't Russia dropped a few bombs on Syria too? At hospitals. Oh no, they denied that. And we've never caught them in a lie. A Dutch plane shot out of the sky. Oh no, they denied that too.
Ukraine attacked. Oh no, that was an exercise. Oh no, but it is an army of peace. Which country kills its own countrymen?
Coincidentally, I am now listening to a Dutch journalist, who has lived in Russia for thirty years, wrote that this would not happen and is now in shock that a brother nation is being murdered. like many of his Russians friends are in shock he said.
Somebody said something hmmmm. It looks like you want to hear just what suits you. Why don't you just go with your oldy fellow Martha and get your hip replaced, or do whatever else oldies do.
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But since you asked, for starters, The USA could lead the others towards a no-fly zone above Ukraine, as we did in Bosnia, Lybia, etc...
And yes, I expect much more from Europe with war is at its gates than from a country 5000 miles away. The USA should stop being the policeman of the world and Europe should grow up and assume more responsibilities when it comes to its own safety.
...
which is it? should the US stay out or impose a no-fly zone ? (which would be an act of war, certainly once they shoot down a Russian plane
Ok, I'll repeat myself: as I said above, it can be done like it was done in Bosnia, Libya, etc. If it was possible then, when it was easy in front of a weak enemy, it should be also possible today, even if the enemy is stronger.
It's a matter of principle, or else it's just hypocrisy.
At the same time, I am expecting more from Europe.
You know you can sign up and go to fight as a volunteer ? First group from my country just left today. So Im expecting you to go and help. Keep us informed.
Seconded..
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NATO was never about to include anything eastern from Germany.
This is simply not true. You got duped by Putin's propaganda! :o
And you are dragging with you some naive fellow contributors who should have known better (including my sweet Martha, unfortunately) :-\
Sad.
Get your facts straight, Lizard.
Yes, me... and the last U.S. ambassador in USSR Jack Matlock who stated in congressional testimony that Gorbachev had received assurances that if Germany united, and stayed in NATO, the borders of NATO would not move eastward.
And he is still claiming the same as you may see for yourself coming from his mouth:
https://youtu.be/fsT8OBroCEE?t=1110 (https://youtu.be/fsT8OBroCEE?t=1110)
So now US ambassadors are also spreading Putin propaganda. ;)
Sad, but a guy who managed to set US elections on FB adds can probably easily get an ambassador under his wing. ;D
So, as I already said: there is no treaty. Just words. Words that were part of a negociation.
Someone's opinion is not the treaty I dared you to produce.
Because there is none.
Maybe you are not aware, but Putin's propaganda is rather succesful even in The USA, all the way up to a former president, one of the biggest Putin fans, even today, during the invasion.
See also what Kasparov had to say about it.
So.... no treaty, Lizard... no treaty.
Just propaganda you were duped by.
Propaganda you continue to propagate in this forum.
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'Nuclear weapons are not there to be used but to deter their use, as you recently found out when you discovered that Nash equilibrium theory'.
Don't patronise me Mihai.
I knew about MAD (mutual assured destruction) 30+ years ago.
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'Nuclear weapons are not there to be used but to deter their use, as you recently found out when you discovered that Nash equilibrium theory'.
Don't patronise me Mihai.
I knew about MAD (mutual assured destruction) 30+ years ago.
A few days ago you brought Russia's nuclear arsenal in the discussion, being afraid that it may be used, saying that we were check-mated by Putin, and there is nothing we can do.
Yesterday, you admitted that during those 30 years, you were "naive".
Your words, not mine:
Now I think I was rather naive in my idealism:
I am not patronizing you. I agree with you.
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Don't forget the rocket crisis. USA didn't allowed Russian missiles to be installed on Kuba, right? Would Americans have attacked back then? Hell yes.
On the photo Belgrade 1999 after NATO bombing.
NATO fought against murder, rape, ethnic cleansing and genocide by the military and the forces of Slobodan Milošević government.
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'Nuclear weapons are not there to be used but to deter their use, as you recently found out when you discovered that Nash equilibrium theory'.
Don't patronise me Mihai.
I knew about MAD (mutual assured destruction) 30+ years ago.
A few days ago you brought Russia's nuclear arsenal in the discussion, being afraid that it may be used, saying that we were check-mated by Putin, and there is nothing we can do.
Yesterday, you admited that throughout those 30 years you were "naive".
Your words, not mine:
Now I think I was rather naive in my idealism:
I am not patronizing you. I agree with you.
Usual misdirection from you Mihai.
Deliberate misinterpretation, quoting out of context, incorrect assumption combined with a dose of bullying is your modis operandi.
So, to clear up your crap again, 30+ years ago I was a member of CND.
For the last 30+ years I was not a member of CND.
I now believe that 30+ years ago I was naive.
The above in no way relates to Putin. What I said about Putin wasn't in relation to me being naive 30+ years ago as he wasn't in politics then but the KGB.
You patronised me when you said I had recently found out about MAD (as you patronised Martha by congratulating her on the use of Google).
You need to learn respect too. I remember once on the Sstock forum (where you created similar arguments to here) that you said that people must earn respect, you didn't just give respect.
Well, for what its worth, which will be nothing to you, you've lost mine hook, line and sinker.
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Don't patronise me Mihai.
But… that's exactly what Mihai/Zero does! He's the master of patronisation, condescension, and braggadocio because of his "obvious" superiority. (In that talent, he tops Aks1, but only by a wee bit.)
Just imagine how wise he might become, what he might learn if he ever bothered to listen to you and other people once in a while.
But you are a mere woman, so why should he pay attention to you? Swaggering men like him have been disparaging and ignoring women throughout history, after all. Why change their modus operandi now?
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'Nuclear weapons are not there to be used but to deter their use, as you recently found out when you discovered that Nash equilibrium theory'.
Don't patronise me Mihai.
I knew about MAD (mutual assured destruction) 30+ years ago.
A few days ago you brought Russia's nuclear arsenal in the discussion, being afraid that it may be used, saying that we were check-mated by Putin, and there is nothing we can do.
Yesterday, you admited that throughout those 30 years you were "naive".
Your words, not mine:
Now I think I was rather naive in my idealism:
I am not patronizing you. I agree with you.
Usual misdirection from you Mihai.
Deliberate misinterpretation, quoting out of context, incorrect assumption combined with a dose of bullying is your modis operandi.
So, to clear up your crap again, 30+ years ago I was a member of CND.
For the last 30+ years I was not a member of CND.
I now believe that 30+ years ago I was naive.
The above in no way relates to Putin. What I said about Putin wasn't in relation to me being naive 30+ years ago as he wasn't in politics then but the KGB.
You patronised me when you said I had recently found out about MAD (as you patronised Martha by congratulating her on the use of Google).
You need to learn respect too. I remember once on the Sstock forum (where you created similar arguments to here) that you said that people must earn respect, you didn't just give respect.
Well, for what its worth, which will be nothing to you, you've lost mine hook, line and sinker.
Yeah, I know, the truth hurts.
You only realized "now", that you were naive.
"Now I think I was rather naive in my idealism:"
Therefore you were naive throughout all these years, until yesterday.
This means that you were still "naive" (your word, not mine) when you made your first comment on this subject (and had a different opinion)
I'm happy to see that this debate made you realize your 30 years old idealism. You're welcome! Same as my sweet, Martha. ;)
Edit: Martha, who lost her onomatopoeic arguments and now is speculating about sexism. Sad!
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Don't forget the rocket crisis. USA didn't allowed Russian missiles to be installed on Kuba, right? Would Americans have attacked back then? Hell yes.
On the photo Belgrade 1999 after NATO bombing.
NATO fought against murder, rape, ethnic cleansing and genocide by the military and the forces of Slobodan Milošević government.
Yes, and the USA bombed Japan in 1945 to end the hideous war that Japan began by bombing our naval base in Hawaii on December 7, 1941.
Context is everything, isn't it?
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Why don't you just go with your oldy fellow Martha and get your hip replaced, or do whatever else oldies do.
Wow, Thijs, doesn't that sound like a great suggestion??!! What do you think?
Want to join me here in Santa Fe, where we have a fine hip-replacement surgeon?
Just imagine how amazing it would be to have our movement back! The miracle of finally being able to walk again… and hey, that might even improve our fast-fading mental capacities!
And once we manage, at long last, to rise up from our wheel chairs, maybe we can toss horse shoes together! Or play bridge!! Maybe even paddle around in the kiddie pool!!! Oh, joy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sounds to me like a tremendously exciting prospect. Whaddya think, Thijs???
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It is not very surprising that, with the expansion drift of the EU and NATO, there comes a point in time that Russia says "enough is enough". You can hate them for it, and maybe rightfully so. But the guilt question here is not so easy to answer. If the situation was reversed and Russia would have been snatching one country after another in say Central America, the US would never have allowed it so close to it's border (oh wait, that actually happened :) )
And then we can discuss the coup in 2014 (supported in the open by the EU), the current destablization tactics of the EU and the US in Belarus, the continuous military excercises of the NATO close to the Russian border and lot's more. And also remember that the US has a lot of liquid gas that they would like to sell to the EU instead of the gas the EU imports from Russia.
It's all very geopolitical and nobody plays it fair. Not Russia, but certainly not the US and the EU as well. And no country actually cares about the civilians. Why deliver weapons to Ukraine when you know they will lose in the end? It will only lead to more bloodshet.
But my gut says the war/invasion will be over in the next two days. Russia will stay in the Eastern part of Ukraine until NATO promises it will not allow Ukraine to their organisation and the Donbas region will have an autonomous position within the Ukraine preserving the rights and safety of the ethnic russian population living there. That will also be the final solution to this matter. Or maybe just split up the country as they did with Yugoslavia if the situation is not resolvable in the end.
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I'm happy to see that this debate made you realise your 30 years old idealism. You're welcome! Same as my sweet, Martha. ;)
Edit: Martha, who lost her onomatopoeic arguments and now is speculating about sexism. Sad!
Ahhhhh. My my my my my. Uh oh!
Soooo saaaaaad to note that my obviously true comments about men's eternal tendency — some deep-seated psychological flaw, perhaps? — to belittle and mistreat women have hit home for my sweet, humble, generous, caring, wonderful friend Zero.
Truly, this grieves me. I'm just soooooooooo saaaaaaaaaaad. :( :( :( :(
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Don't forget the rocket crisis. USA didn't allowed Russian missiles to be installed on Kuba, right? Would Americans have attacked back then? Hell yes.
On the photo Belgrade 1999 after NATO bombing.
NATO fought against murder, rape, ethnic cleansing and genocide by the military and the forces of Slobodan Milošević government.
Sure, and it started in 1991 with Croatia, than spread in Bosnia and not a finger was moved while he he was fighting on foreign territory. UN forces handled him 10k people to be blatantly executed in Srebrenica. On the plate. Those people surrendered with UN forces guarantee for protection and then those UN men, more precisely Duch battalion DutchBat III is directly responsible for his genocide and its been proved in court.
130 000 people died in the middle of Europe and nobody moved a finger.
Then they intervened 10 years later when the wars were over in a moment when he was right for the first time defending his own country from a minority demanding country within a country in a territory that was always Serbian and never Albanian just to spite Russia which started to openly support him.
Where was NATO when his forces occupied 1/3 of Croatia, where were they when Vukovar was surrounded and kids were murdered, when were they when Sarajevo was surrounded and rocketed every day for years. People had not only food but drinking water and they didn't even provide them that.
And please don't try to educate me about that war, I was personally in that war fighting against him and spent best years of my life under his gradates while the world was watching.
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Why don't you just go with your oldy fellow Martha and get your hip replaced, or do whatever else oldies do.
Wow, Thijs, doesn't that sound like a great suggestion??!! What do you think?
Want to join me here in Santa Fe, where we have a fine hip-replacement surgeon?
Just imagine how amazing it would be to have our movement back! The miracle of finally being able to walk again… and hey, that might even improve our fast-fading mental capacities!
And once we manage, at long last, to rise up from our wheel chairs, maybe we can toss horse shoes together! Or play bridge!! Maybe even paddle around in the kiddie pool!!! Oh, joy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sounds to me like a tremendously exciting prospect. Whaddya think, Thijs???
I'm not going to take those insults Martha. An old discussion technique. If you can't win when the other person is right, you can insult them. Which makes it about the insult and no longer about the subject that matters and where he is wrong. ;)
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And please don't try to educate me about that war, I was personally in that war fighting against him and spent best years of my life under his gradates while the world was watching.
This is unfortunate but useful information, Lizard. Thank you for helping us understand your personal history and "where you are coming from."
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Why don't you just go with your oldy fellow Martha and get your hip replaced, or do whatever else oldies do.
Wow, Thijs, doesn't that sound like a great suggestion??!! What do you think?
Want to join me here in Santa Fe, where we have a fine hip-replacement surgeon?
Just imagine how amazing it would be to have our movement back! The miracle of finally being able to walk again… and hey, that might even improve our fast-fading mental capacities!
And once we manage, at long last, to rise up from our wheel chairs, maybe we can toss horse shoes together! Or play bridge!! Maybe even paddle around in the kiddie pool!!! Oh, joy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sounds to me like a tremendously exciting prospect. Whaddya think, Thijs???
I'm not going to take those insults Martha. An old discussion technique. If you can't win when the other person is right, you can insult them. Which makes it about the insult and no longer about the subject that matters and where he is wrong. ;)
You're right, Thijs. Typical bully behavior. Apparently, this forum's most pathetic participant has no other tools except to mock and ridicule those who don't fall in line behind him.
Unfortunately, in my long (!!) life, I've known many other men just like him. I find the best approach is to ridicule them back. In this case, it does seem to get under his skin, which is fine with me.
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Nice long thread, lets make it longer. Oh, another oldy. I really didn't know what I'm getting involved in here. What a waste of time arguing with a bunch of nursing home residents.
Most Seniors have more life experience, knowledge and wisdom than any young know-it-all. Enough experience to recognize that arguing the subject of a debate is wisdom, while tossing in irrelevant personal attacks, or name calling others, is a childish inability to communicate.
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Don't forget the rocket crisis. USA didn't allowed Russian missiles to be installed on Kuba, right? Would Americans have attacked back then? Hell yes.
On the photo Belgrade 1999 after NATO bombing.
NATO fought against murder, rape, ethnic cleansing and genocide by the military and the forces of Slobodan Milošević government.
Sure, and it started in 1991 with Croatia, than spread in Bosnia and not a finger was moved while he he was fighting on foreign territory. UN forces handled him 10k people to be blatantly executed in Srebrenica. On the plate. Those people surrendered with UN forces guarantee for protection and then those UN men, more precisely Duch battalion DutchBat III is directly responsible for his genocide and its been proved in court.
130 000 people died in the middle of Europe and nobody moved a finger.
Then they intervened 10 years later when the wars were over in a moment when he was right for the first time defending his own country from a minority demanding country within a country in a territory that was always Serbian and never Albanian just to spite Russia which started to openly support him.
Where was NATO when his forces occupied 1/3 of Croatia, where were they when Vukovar was surrounded and kids were murdered, when were they when Sarajevo was surrounded and rocketed every day for years. People had not only food but drinking water and they didn't even provide them that.
And please don't try to educate me about that war, I was personally in that war fighting against him and spent best years of my life under his gradates while the world was watching.
All this is correct, Lizard.
The same sad things happen now, in Ukraine, because of Putin, instead of Milosevic.
Many people die in Ukraine and many more will die, without anyone moving more than a few symbolic fingers.
NATO failed to deter the war and war crimes in former Yugoslavia, the same way NATO fails to deter the war and war crimes in Ukraine.
Putin is falsely quoting an inexistent agreement (you believed existed), using NATO as a scapegoat, to justify his dreams of a Greater Russia. He will not stop with Ukraine.
His rhetoric is also using the Yugoslavian wars to justify his invasion of Ukraine.
If anyone, YOU should be the one seeing through his crap.
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Nice long thread, lets make it longer. Oh, another oldy. I really didn't know what I'm getting involved in here. What a waste of time arguing with a bunch of nursing home residents.
Most Seniors have more life experience, knowledge and wisdom than any young know-it-all. Enough experience to recognize that arguing the subject of a debate is wisdom, while tossing in irrelevant personal attacks, or name calling others, is a childish inability to communicate.
"arguing the subject of a debate is wisdom" whaaat debate , what wisdom - to say Give Putin hell (Martha the oldy hip replacer)
or "Countries have freed themselves from the Soviet Union because they no longer wanted to belong to it and for fear of Russia they joined the West." this third grader sentence said by Martha's buddy with still to be replaced hip Wjsrtf or whatever his nick name is. That is what you call wisdom? Go to Santa Fe with them and visit the surgeon.
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Don't forget the rocket crisis. USA didn't allowed Russian missiles to be installed on Kuba, right? Would Americans have attacked back then? Hell yes.
On the photo Belgrade 1999 after NATO bombing.
NATO fought against murder, rape, ethnic cleansing and genocide by the military and the forces of Slobodan Milošević government.
Sure, and it started in 1991 with Croatia, than spread in Bosnia and not a finger was moved while he he was fighting on foreign territory. UN forces handled him 10k people to be blatantly executed in Srebrenica. On the plate. Those people surrendered with UN forces guarantee for protection and then those UN men, more precisely Duch battalion DutchBat III is directly responsible for his genocide and its been proved in court.
130 000 people died in the middle of Europe and nobody moved a finger.
Then they intervened 10 years later when the wars were over in a moment when he was right for the first time defending his own country from a minority demanding country within a country in a territory that was always Serbian and never Albanian just to spite Russia which started to openly support him.
Where was NATO when his forces occupied 1/3 of Croatia, where were they when Vukovar was surrounded and kids were murdered, when were they when Sarajevo was surrounded and rocketed every day for years. People had not only food but drinking water and they didn't even provide them that.
And please don't try to educate me about that war, I was personally in that war fighting against him and spent best years of my life under his gradates while the world was watching.
Milosevic is hero! You can freely suck his you now what.
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And please don't try to educate me about that war, I was personally in that war fighting against him and spent best years of my life under his gradates while the world was watching.
Thank you for sharing. I understand now why you have your reservations.
Yes, that's where we went wrong. Perhaps because it was first seen as an internal quarrel of a country falling apart after Tito.
Two years ago we were in Slovenia where the problems started. In 2015 we were in Trogir near Split and it was almost impossible to imagine what a misery it was there.
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Nice long thread, lets make it longer. Oh, another oldy. I really didn't know what I'm getting involved in here. What a waste of time arguing with a bunch of nursing home residents.
Most Seniors have more life experience, knowledge and wisdom than any young know-it-all. Enough experience to recognize that arguing the subject of a debate is wisdom, while tossing in irrelevant personal attacks, or name calling others, is a childish inability to communicate.
"arguing the subject of a debate is wisdom" whaaat debate , what wisdom - to say Give Putin hell (Martha the oldy hip replacer)
or "Countries have freed themselves from the Soviet Union because they no longer wanted to belong to it and for fear of Russia they joined the West." this third grader sentence said by Martha's buddy with still to be replaced hip Wjsrtf or whatever his nick name is. That is what you call wisdom? Go to Santa Fe with them and visit the surgeon.
People here are debating the attacks on the Ukraine, not how old we are or how we write our sentences. Otherwise I would be obliged to point out your many typos, grammar and spelling errors, which I won't. But I was making a generalized statement about anyone who personally attacks others for irrelevant reasons, instead of staying with the discussion. Anyone, not just you.
Yours, FOBG - old fart.
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Nice long thread, lets make it longer. Oh, another oldy. I really didn't know what I'm getting involved in here. What a waste of time arguing with a bunch of nursing home residents.
Most Seniors have more life experience, knowledge and wisdom than any young know-it-all. Enough experience to recognize that arguing the subject of a debate is wisdom, while tossing in irrelevant personal attacks, or name calling others, is a childish inability to communicate.
"arguing the subject of a debate is wisdom" whaaat debate , what wisdom - to say Give Putin hell (Martha the oldy hip replacer)
or "Countries have freed themselves from the Soviet Union because they no longer wanted to belong to it and for fear of Russia they joined the West." this third grader sentence said by Martha's buddy with still to be replaced hip Wjsrtf or whatever his nick name is. That is what you call wisdom? Go to Santa Fe with them and visit the surgeon.
People here are debating the attacks on the Ukraine, not how old we are or how we write our sentences. Otherwise I would be obliged to point out your many typos, grammar and spelling errors, which I won't. But I was making a generalized statement about anyone who personally attacks others for irrelevant reasons, instead of staying with the discussion. Anyone, not just you.
Yours, FOBG - old fart.
This is not a debate! This is a rage against Russia. And anybody having different opinion is just called Putin's bot, or is commented with Nonsense, you don't believe in what you just say and similar. And you also see it. And that is why I got involved here, although my English is so bad. I couldn't believe there is such an amount of hate in people. And when I even found out these people are old, what? I wrote it earlier, but it was ignored, of course - people who hate this much would most likely torture a captured Russian solder, even women. I know that, I was in war, and i saw who are the people who torture captives. Just a thought about it makes me sick. These oldies are sitting in their comfortable chairs and hate, not even being aware how close they are to stick a sharp subject into someone eye. Sick old people. Not even aware of their feelings they wouldn't be able to control.
By the way, I respect you and everything you did for this forum all these years.
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Nice long thread, lets make it longer. Oh, another oldy. I really didn't know what I'm getting involved in here. What a waste of time arguing with a bunch of nursing home residents.
Most Seniors have more life experience, knowledge and wisdom than any young know-it-all. Enough experience to recognize that arguing the subject of a debate is wisdom, while tossing in irrelevant personal attacks, or name calling others, is a childish inability to communicate.
"arguing the subject of a debate is wisdom" whaaat debate , what wisdom - to say Give Putin hell (Martha the oldy hip replacer)
or "Countries have freed themselves from the Soviet Union because they no longer wanted to belong to it and for fear of Russia they joined the West." this third grader sentence said by Martha's buddy with still to be replaced hip Wjsrtf or whatever his nick name is. That is what you call wisdom? Go to Santa Fe with them and visit the surgeon.
We also have excellent psychologists and psychiatrists here in Santa Fe, Aks1. You're welcome to join Thijs and me here, and while we're having our hips replaced, you can get a thorough mental examination. Perhaps even benefit from some much-needed therapy.
That probably would be a great relief to the unfortunate people who actually have to live with or near you. We lucky forum participants have the option of tuning you out whenever we get fed up with you.
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Nice long thread, lets make it longer. Oh, another oldy. I really didn't know what I'm getting involved in here. What a waste of time arguing with a bunch of nursing home residents.
Most Seniors have more life experience, knowledge and wisdom than any young know-it-all. Enough experience to recognize that arguing the subject of a debate is wisdom, while tossing in irrelevant personal attacks, or name calling others, is a childish inability to communicate.
"arguing the subject of a debate is wisdom" whaaat debate , what wisdom - to say Give Putin hell (Martha the oldy hip replacer)
or "Countries have freed themselves from the Soviet Union because they no longer wanted to belong to it and for fear of Russia they joined the West." this third grader sentence said by Martha's buddy with still to be replaced hip Wjsrtf or whatever his nick name is. That is what you call wisdom? Go to Santa Fe with them and visit the surgeon.
We also have excellent psychologists and psychiatrists here in Santa FE, Aks1. You're welcome to join Thijs and me here, and while we're having our hips replaced, you can get a thorough mental examination. Perhaps even benefit from some much-needed therapy.
That probably would be a great relief to the unfortunate people who actually have to live with or near you. We lucky forum participants have the option of tuning you out whenever we get fed up with you.
Why are you replying to me then? People around me are, believe me, sick of your hate as much as I am.
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Finally Russia have send a clear message: dear Americans, your time as world policeman is over. You have been dropping bombs on Syria, Iraq, Libya, Serbia, Vietnam, Japan, etc., but it stops right now. What you gonna do? Will you crap your pants? Yes you will.
Yahahahaha
Hungary 1956 & 1968, Afghanistan 1979 to 89, Chechnya, The Warsaw pact keeping everyone under the thumb and Syria and now Ukraine.
Russia propping up dictators like Sadam and Gaddafi plus dozens of other wannabe genocidal maniacs.
Vietnam the forceable reintegration by the Communist north supported by the Russians. Korean war started by the Communist north supported by the Russians and Chinese.
Whats the one thing in common?? Yes Russian imperialism
So keep your Putin kool aid and read a bit of history. 8)
I forgot to say "Botski" ;D
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I'm not your pal. And don't tell me what to do. Fck off old lady.
It looks like you want to hear just what suits you. Why don't you just go with your oldy fellow Martha and get your hip replaced, or do whatever else oldies do.
"arguing the subject of a debate is wisdom" whaaat debate , what wisdom - to say Give Putin hell (Martha the oldy hip replacer)
or "Countries have freed themselves from the Soviet Union because they no longer wanted to belong to it and for fear of Russia they joined the West." this third grader sentence said by Martha's buddy with still to be replaced hip Wjsrtf or whatever his nick name is. That is what you call wisdom? Go to Santa Fe with them and visit the surgeon.
These oldies are sitting in their comfortable chairs and hate, not even being aware how close they are to stick a sharp subject into someone eye. Sick old people. Not even aware of their feelings they wouldn't be able to control.
Why are you replying to me then? People around me are, believe me, sick of your hate as much as I am.
Sorry Aks1, but you can't complain about me, Pete, Cascoly, Thijs, Mimi the Cat, DO, and others when you continue spewing garbage insults like those above.
If those are the best arguments you have to make…
If attacking people just because they happen to be older, more experienced, and perhaps even wiser than you is the only thing you can think of to make your points…
Maybe you should just retire gracefully from this forum that you so recently joined. Three weeks ago, wasn't it?
Especially since you seem to be finding very little support here. Clearly you're not winning "hearts and minds" with your feeble attempts to present your point of view.
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After corona crisis and now Ukraine crisis i guess we probably will face an economic crisis next.
An economic crisis probably will affect sales a lot.
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I'm not your pal. And don't tell me what to do. Fck off old lady.
It looks like you want to hear just what suits you. Why don't you just go with your oldy fellow Martha and get your hip replaced, or do whatever else oldies do.
"arguing the subject of a debate is wisdom" whaaat debate , what wisdom - to say Give Putin hell (Martha the oldy hip replacer)
or "Countries have freed themselves from the Soviet Union because they no longer wanted to belong to it and for fear of Russia they joined the West." this third grader sentence said by Martha's buddy with still to be replaced hip Wjsrtf or whatever his nick name is. That is what you call wisdom? Go to Santa Fe with them and visit the surgeon.
These oldies are sitting in their comfortable chairs and hate, not even being aware how close they are to stick a sharp subject into someone eye. Sick old people. Not even aware of their feelings they wouldn't be able to control.
Why are you replying to me then? People around me are, believe me, sick of your hate as much as I am.
Sorry Aks1, but you can't complain about me, Pete, Cascoly, Thijs, Mimi the Cat, DO, and others when you continue spewing garbage insults like those above.
If those are the best arguments you have to make…
If attacking people just because they happen to be older, more experienced, and perhaps even wiser than you is the only thing you can think of to make your points…
Maybe you should just retire gracefully from this forum that you so recently joined. Three weeks ago, wasn't it?
Especially since you seem to be finding very little support here. Clearly you're not winning "hearts and minds" with your feeble attempts to present your point of view.
I'm not looking for support here, neither I'm here for hearts and minds of others. I'm here to tell you that that much hate in you is disgusting and dangerous.
You are definitely not the one to tell me to leave the forum, what makes you think you are? So I'm newbie here and that makes me less of a person? You are bulling me because I'm newbie here? And then you complain about me bulling you because of your age? What else you don't like about me? Color of the skin, nationality (that's for sure, you would hate me just based on that), my sexual orientation? I asked you before - is there some kind of test of your that I have to pass to be able to participate in the forum?
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But since you asked, for starters, The USA could lead the others towards a no-fly zone above Ukraine, as we did in Bosnia, Lybia, etc...
And yes, I expect much more from Europe with war is at its gates than from a country 5000 miles away. The USA should stop being the policeman of the world and Europe should grow up and assume more responsibilities when it comes to its own safety.
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which is it? should the US stay out or impose a no-fly zone ? (which would be an act of war, certainly once they shoot down a Russian plane
Ok, I'll repeat myself: as I said above, it can be done like it was done in Bosnia, Libya, etc. If it was possible then, when it was easy in front of a weak enemy, it should be also possible today, even if the enemy is stronger.
It's a matter of principle, or else it's just hypocrisy.
At the same time, I am expecting more from Europe.
WHAT??
In all of your posts, and despite me asking you again and again, you still haven't said what you believe 'Europe' should do....
If you are so happy to attack members of this forum and 'Europe' or whoever/whatever it is your are attacking (difficult to tell sometimes) what is it exactly you believe should be happening that isn't (and by whom)??
Still waiting for an answer (Zero Talent) ......................😴
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Russia propping up dictators like Sadam and Gaddafi plus dozens of other wannabe genocidal maniacs.
Vietnam the forceable reintegration by the Communist north supported by the Russians. Korean war started by the Communist north supported by the Russians and Chinese.
Sadam was a puppet of the US and was helped by them in 1968 to perform a coup. Until he got a big mouth and the US was done with him.
Libia is one big mess now thanks to the intervention of the EU and the US.
The only reason that communism got ground in Vietnam and Laos was because of the ruthless oppression of the French who occupied those countries in that time. They saw communism as a liberation of the siege. So if you want to find a common factor in those countries look at France.
Actually everywhere the US has put his nose in, until now, has become a complete mess. Same goes for the EU who thinks they can change countries with their manufacturability idealism nowadays. And somehow this idealism only plays a role when there are geopolitical advantages to be made, not when some country in Africa is in ruins and help might be needed. I really believe people should help themself, otherwise it will not work. The uprise really should come from within, otherwise it's doomed to fail. See for example Afghanistan. You cannot force your way of living upon a culture that does not understand it.
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After corona crisis and now Ukraine crisis i guess we probably will face an economic crisis next.
An economic crisis probably will affect sales a lot.
Yep, next up, internet/technology crisis. Financial crisis, to implement central bank and social credit system, like China has.
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Milosevic is hero! You can freely suck his you now what.
Milosevic is a corp who died in a prison cell as a war criminal.
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Russia propping up dictators like Sadam and Gaddafi plus dozens of other wannabe genocidal maniacs.
Sadam was US best friend until he didn't decided to try to control his oil prices.
Bin Laden was US agent trained at ST. Andrew.
Point.
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Finally Russia have send a clear message: dear Americans, your time as world policeman is over. You have been dropping bombs on Syria, Iraq, Libya, Serbia, Vietnam, Japan, etc., but it stops right now. What you gonna do? Will you crap your pants? Yes you will.
Weird, is not it? Of course you don't agree with that either.
Hadn't Russia dropped a few bombs on Syria too? At hospitals. Oh no, they denied that. And we've never caught them in a lie. A Dutch plane shot out of the sky. Oh no, they denied that too.
Ukraine attacked. Oh no, that was an exercise. Oh no, but it is an army of peace. Which country kills its own countrymen?
Coincidentally, I am now listening to a Dutch journalist, who has lived in Russia for thirty years, wrote that this would not happen and is now in shock that a brother nation is being murdered. like many of his Russians friends are in shock he said.
I've never said Russians are good boys. But, let's look again: Vietnam, Laos, Panama, Yugoslavia, Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan. Let's also look, I don0t know, tortures in Guantanamo. Or native Americans genocide. Or Israel. What about two atomic bombs? Are you blind or ignorant? You compare a journalist with 5.000.000 Vietnamese? Really?
Russia has demanded an end to NATO’s eastward expansion and said Ukrainian membership of the US-led Atlantic military alliance was unacceptable.
Can you do it? Thinking I mean.
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It is not very surprising that, with the expansion drift of the EU and NATO, there comes a point in time that Russia says "enough is enough". You can hate them for it, and maybe rightfully so. But the guilt question here is not so easy to answer. If the situation was reversed and Russia would have been snatching one country after another in say Central America, the US would never have allowed it so close to it's border (oh wait, that actually happened :) )
You seem to be confused and have a lot of stuff mixed up.
The EU or NATO are not "snatching" countries. The European Union and NATO are voluntary coalitions. Russia can make coalitions with how many countries it likes. Invading countries is a different story.
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Russia propping up dictators like Sadam and Gaddafi plus dozens of other wannabe genocidal maniacs.
Sadam was US best friend until he didn't decided to try to control his oil prices.
Point.
Actually, until Kuwait decided to defy Iraq, increase its production and sell cheaper oil. Iraq desperately needed high oil prices, to recover, after they spent a fortune fighting Iran, for almost 8 years.
So, it was Sadam who wanted to control prices of someone else's oil.
He used this as a pretext to invade a smaller country.
That's no different than Putin invading Ukraine now.
The difference is that, back then, The US and many European countries had the guts to stand up to Sadam, and free Kuwait.
Not so much now.
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Don't forget the rocket crisis. USA didn't allowed Russian missiles to be installed on Kuba, right? Would Americans have attacked back then? Hell yes.
On the photo Belgrade 1999 after NATO bombing.
NATO fought against murder, rape, ethnic cleansing and genocide by the military and the forces of Slobodan Milošević government.
Yes, and the USA bombed Japan in 1945 to end the hideous war that Japan began by bombing our naval base in Hawaii on December 7, 1941.
Context is everything, isn't it?
if we're going back to WWII re the US actions, we should probably recall the Ribbentrop-Molotov non aggression pact, and USSR invasion of Poland when Germany did in 1939 (and their massacres of polish officers and aggressive takeovers of eastern Europe post-WWII that was the reason NATO was created in the first place)
meanwhile:
As the German army began its invasion of the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941, Stalin ordered the Soviet Secret Service (NKVD) to “remove” the prison population in the USSR’s occupied territories rather than allow them to fall into German hands. This was largely accomplished through the mass murder of prisoners at various locations in Western Ukraine, Belarus, Estonia, and Lithuania. The majority of the mass executions, later termed “the 1941 NKVD Prison Massacres” by local residents, occurred in Western Ukraine. Due to a lack of reliable sources, exact numbers are impossible to determine; however, historians estimate that the NKVD killed somewhere between 10,000 and 40,000 people in dozens of prisons over the course of eight days. The ethnic breakdown of casualties in Western Ukraine roughly corresponded to population demographics: 70 percent of the victims were Ukrainian, 20 percent Polish, and the remainder consisted of Jews and other nationalities.
https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/1941-nkvd-prison-massacres-western-ukraine (https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/1941-nkvd-prison-massacres-western-ukraine)
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Why don't you just go with your oldy fellow Martha and get your hip replaced, or do whatever else oldies do.
Wow, Thijs, doesn't that sound like a great suggestion??!! What do you think?
...
And once we manage, at long last, to rise up from our wheel chairs, maybe we can toss horse shoes together! Or play bridge!! ..
hey- i started playing duplicate bridge tournaments in the 1970s along w Omar Sharif
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... Donbas region will have an autonomous position within the Ukraine preserving the rights and safety of the ethnic russian population living there. That will also be the final solution to this matter. Or maybe just split up the country as they did with Yugoslavia if the situation is not resolvable in the end.
just what we need! another final solution
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Actually, until Kuwait decided to defy Iraq, increase its production and sell cheaper oil. Iraq desperately needed high oil prices, after they spent a fortune fighting Iran.
So, it was Sadam who wanted to control prices of someone else's oil.
He used this as a pretext to invade a smaller country. That's no difderent than Putin invading Ukraine now.
The difference is that, back then, The US and UN had the guts to stand up to Sadam.
No, Saddam was helped by the US because Irak was getting to tight with Iran and Iran was the enemy of the US. The whole Iran-Irak war was supported by the US without making their own hands dirty. The US has a long history of enabling coups and putting puppets in place that served their interest regardless of the population in those countries. France had a large role here as well because of it's major oil interests in the country. Please try to read into this history and understand that all of the world powers are extremely hyopocrite when blaming one and each other.
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And please don't try to educate me about that war, I was personally in that war fighting against him and spent best years of my life under his gradates while the world was watching.
Thank you for sharing. I understand now why you have your reservations.
Yes, that's where we went wrong. Perhaps because it was first seen as an internal quarrel of a country falling apart after Tito.
Two years ago we were in Slovenia where the problems started. In 2015 we were in Trogir near Split and it was almost impossible to imagine what a misery it was there.
yes, both Trogir & Split are now (well deserved) tourist destinations.
or in Dubrovnik where much of 'old town' rooves were destroyed in the conflict, but little evidence now of the destruction.
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Russia propping up dictators like Sadam and Gaddafi plus dozens of other wannabe genocidal maniacs.
Sadam was US best friend until he didn't decided to try to control his oil prices.
Point.
Actually, until Kuwait decided to defy Iraq, increase its production and sell cheaper oil. Iraq desperately needed high oil prices, to recover, after they spent a fortune fighting Iran, for almost 8 years.
So, it was Sadam who wanted to control prices of someone else's oil.
He used this as a pretext to invade a smaller country.
That's no different than Putin invading Ukraine now.
The difference is that, back then, The US and many European countries had the guts to stand up to Sadam, and free Kuwait.
Not so much now.
To bad no one ever had guts to stop what Israel is doing for decades and stop a genocide and ethnic cleaning.
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And please don't try to educate me about that war, I was personally in that war fighting against him and spent best years of my life under his gradates while the world was watching.
Thank you for sharing. I understand now why you have your reservations.
Yes, that's where we went wrong. Perhaps because it was first seen as an internal quarrel of a country falling apart after Tito.
Two years ago we were in Slovenia where the problems started. In 2015 we were in Trogir near Split and it was almost impossible to imagine what a misery it was there.
yes, both Trogir & Split are now (well deserved) tourist destinations.
or in Dubrovnik where much of 'old town' rooves were destroyed in the conflict, but little evidence now of the destruction.
I just took Vukovar and Sarajevo as examples because they were hit most. Vukovar was destroyed to the ground.
Cities on the coast took not even similar damage as the ones I mentioned.
Vukovar looked like this and civilians were hiding in basements for months under 1000s and 100s of grenades on daily basis. That is what war brings, and who wants it is not normal.
(https://www.nedjelja.ba/application/cache/thumb/c/c4/phpThumb_cache_nedjelja.ba__srcc4eca99372039aca7876e1c41815fe2a_par237e4a9ca0b8b807a10bf3329368f378_dat1542534312.jpeg)
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Sadam was US best friend until he didn't decided to try to control his oil prices.
Point.
Actually, until Kuwait decided to defy Iraq, increase its production and sell cheaper oil. Iraq desperately needed high oil prices, to recover, after they spent a fortune fighting Iran, for almost 8 years.
So, it was Sadam who wanted to control prices of someone else's oil.
He used this as a pretext to invade a smaller country.
That's no different than Putin invading Ukraine now.
The difference is that, back then, The US and many European countries had the guts to stand up to Sadam, and free Kuwait.
Not so much now.
To bad no one ever had guts to stop what Israel is doing for decades and stop a genocide and ethnic cleaning.
That's a different topic, and you may have a point.
Going back to Sadam, can you agree now that Sadam and Putin are doing the same thing, while the reaction to their aggressions is vastly different?
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Finally Russia have send a clear message: dear Americans, your time as world policeman is over. You have been dropping bombs on Syria, Iraq, Libya, Serbia, Vietnam, Japan, etc., but it stops right now. What you gonna do? Will you crap your pants? Yes you will.
Weird, is not it? Of course you don't agree with that either.
Hadn't Russia dropped a few bombs on Syria too? At hospitals. Oh no, they denied that. And we've never caught them in a lie. A Dutch plane shot out of the sky. Oh no, they denied that too.
Ukraine attacked. Oh no, that was an exercise. Oh no, but it is an army of peace. Which country kills its own countrymen?
Coincidentally, I am now listening to a Dutch journalist, who has lived in Russia for thirty years, wrote that this would not happen and is now in shock that a brother nation is being murdered. like many of his Russians friends are in shock he said.
I've never said Russians are good boys. But, let's look again: Vietnam, Laos, Panama, Yugoslavia, Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan. Let's also look, I don0t know, tortures in Guantanamo. Or native Americans genocide. Or Israel. What about two atomic bombs? Are you blind or ignorant? You compare a journalist with 5.000.000 Vietnamese? Really?
Russia has demanded an end to NATO’s eastward expansion and said Ukrainian membership of the US-led Atlantic military alliance was unacceptable.
Can you do it? Thinking I mean.
Now I can say that Afghanistan became especially problematic after the failed Russian invasion in that country and that attacks were organized from Afghanistan on the west (Nine eleven). So there is more to say. But I'm not saying that the West doesn't make mistakes. In the Netherlands (also in America by the way) there were protests against the war in Vietnam.
The problem is that many former Soviet countries want to be independent. But be afraid of Russia and apply for that membership. And when I see what is happening to Ukraine now, I understand.
There is no hatred towards the Russian people from the west. Even now they are not held responsible.
No western country wants to attack Russia.
For years (except for a few countries) Europe has been cutting back on their defenses because they thought there would be no more war with Russia. Even as Russia continued to expand its military.
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That's a different topic, and you may have a point.
Going back to Sadam, can you agree now that Sadam and Putin are doing the same thing, while the reaction to their aggressions is vastly different?
Once again, Im against any war at all costs.
The problem wit Sadam or Lybia, Afganistan ...and similar places is that however they were, what was brought after them is 100 times worse for people living there. Way more people died after that period, millions of people escaped a radical militant groups got the power.
Just compare photos of those places before and after interventions. They were brought back 500 years in the past and nobody gives a f..k
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...
... Donbas region will have an autonomous position within the Ukraine preserving the rights and safety of the ethnic russian population living there. That will also be the final solution to this matter. Or maybe just split up the country as they did with Yugoslavia if the situation is not resolvable in the end.
just what we need! another final solution
I am not offering a solution but predicting it.
By the way how much of the population east of the Djnepr really dislikes this intervention of Russia I wonder? There is a civil war going on since almost eight years now over there. According to the UN 13.000 lives were lost. Maybe it's good it will come to an end now, one way or the other. And maybe it will not be so bad to split the country. It seems to work in Yugoslavia right?
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Milosevic is hero! You can freely suck his you now what.
Milosevic is a corp who died in a prison cell as a war criminal.
The only war criminal are nazi Tudjman and nazi Gotovina, who killed civilians during Oluja.
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And please don't try to educate me about that war, I was personally in that war fighting against him and spent best years of my life under his gradates while the world was watching.
Thank you for sharing. I understand now why you have your reservations.
Yes, that's where we went wrong. Perhaps because it was first seen as an internal quarrel of a country falling apart after Tito.
Two years ago we were in Slovenia where the problems started. In 2015 we were in Trogir near Split and it was almost impossible to imagine what a misery it was there.
yes, both Trogir & Split are now (well deserved) tourist destinations.
or in Dubrovnik where much of 'old town' rooves were destroyed in the conflict, but little evidence now of the destruction.
I just took Vukovar and Sarajevo as examples because they were hit most. Vukovar was destroyed to the ground.
Cities on the coast took not even similar damage as the ones I mentioned.
Vukovar looked like this and civilians were hiding in basements for months under 1000s and 100s of grenades on daily basis. That is what war brings, and who wants it is not normal.
(https://www.nedjelja.ba/application/cache/thumb/c/c4/phpThumb_cache_nedjelja.ba__srcc4eca99372039aca7876e1c41815fe2a_par237e4a9ca0b8b807a10bf3329368f378_dat1542534312.jpeg)
Yes terrible. Before the war we had been to Plitvice Lakes National Park. During the war I thought back to the fact that such a beautiful place was now in a war zone. At the time, it was hard for me to imagine what was going on in the beginning. One Yugoslav area fought against another. Not that one country was conquering another country. That realization came later.
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That's a different topic, and you may have a point.
Going back to Sadam, can you agree now that Sadam and Putin are doing the same thing, while the reaction to their aggressions is vastly different?
Once again, Im against any war at all costs.
The problem wit Sadam or Lybia, Afganistan ...and similar places is that however they were, what was brought after them is 100 times worse for people living there. Way more people died after that period, millions of people escaped a radical militant groups got the power.
Just compare photos of those places before and after interventions. They were brought back 500 years in the past and nobody gives a f..k
Of course, we all are, except for a few Russian trolls who are justifying the invasion, using Putin's propaganda, his sophisms, and his fallacies.
The question is, what do you propose to do to stop the war and prevent an emboldened Putin to move to his next target, like Moldova, and more.
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By the way this how NATO grew towards the Russian border. And it was promised after the reunification of Germany it would not move further to Russia. NATO lied and did it anyway.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/History_of_NATO_enlargement.svg/1460px-History_of_NATO_enlargement.svg.png
So maybe someone understands that having Ukraine joining NATO is maybe a step to far in this geopolitical game they are playing.
The EU is being stupid with their current sanctions and their expansion drift. they will hurt it's own economy. We will have major inflation because of energy and food costs soring when Russia will stop delivering gas and wheat. Our airlines, which were on the verge of bankruptcy already, will take a serious hit not being able to fly over Russia anymore as from tomorrow probably. So funny, that we try to cripple Russia's economy but we will hurt ourselves in the same process. And the US is the laughing third party. They will make money of us by selling their liquid gas and wheat at high prices. Europe, like in the financial crisis in 2008, will pay the price for the American wellfare and issues.
But then again, we still owe them money from the Marshall plans. So maybe it's justified :)
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I'm not looking for support here, neither I'm here for hearts and minds of others.
I'm here to tell you that that much hate in you is disgusting and dangerous.
Well, then, that raises two questions:
#1. Why *are* you here if not to look for support for your beliefs and win over the hearts and minds of others? Did you actually join this forum just to rant about your grievances?
#2. Are you really here *only* to inform me that I'm a hateful, disgusting, and dangerous person? Did you join this forum just to tell me that?
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After corona crisis and now Ukraine crisis i guess we probably will face an economic crisis next.
An economic crisis probably will affect sales a lot.
Yep, next up, internet/technology crisis. Financial crisis, to implement central bank and social credit system, like China has.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/expeditors-international-shuts-down-computer-systems-after-cyberattack-11645566461 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/expeditors-international-shuts-down-computer-systems-after-cyberattack-11645566461)
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yes, both Trogir & Split are now (well deserved) tourist destinations.
or in Dubrovnik where much of 'old town' rooves were destroyed in the conflict, but little evidence now of the destruction.
My husband and I spent a week in Dubrovnik in 1974, long before the 1991-92 siege brought so much destruction to that lovely medieval city.
As we watched that calamity from afar, we looked back at the photos we'd taken there and mourned the old town we had enjoyed so much.
Which, for me, is yet another reason to grieve for what's happening to Ukraine's cities and countryside now, as well as to its people. The echoes of Dubrovnik and all of what was called "Yugoslavia" when we visited it are too close, too brutal.
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By the way this how NATO grew towards the Russian border. And it was promised after the reunification of Germany it would not move further to Russia. NATO lied and did it anyway.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/History_of_NATO_enlargement.svg/1460px-History_of_NATO_enlargement.svg.png
So maybe someone understands that having Ukraine joining NATO is maybe a step to far in this geopolitical game they are playing.
The EU is being stupid with their current sanctions and their expansion drift. they will hurt it's own economy. We will have major inflation because of energy and food costs soring when Russia will stop delivering gas and wheat. Our airlines, which were on the verge of bankruptcy already, will take a serious hit not being able to fly over Russia anymore as from tomorrow probably. So funny, that we try to cripple Russia's economy but we will hurt ourselves in the same process. And the US is the laughing third party. They will make money of us by selling their liquid gas and wheat at high prices. Europe, like in the financial crisis in 2008, will pay the price for the American wellfare and issues.
But then again, we still owe them money from the Marshall plans. So maybe it's justified :)
Wrong. Go to reply #78 to get the facts, instead of Putin's propaganda. You can also ask Lizard to help you track that elusive treaty since he also came up with the same urban legend.
In Ukraine Conflict, Putin Relies on a Promise That Ultimately Wasn’t https://nyti.ms/3zE2avP
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AKS1 has been given a ban for rude and vulgar language.
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Wrong. Go to the reply #78 to get the facts, instead of Putin's propaganda. You can also ask Lizard to help you track that elusive treaty, since he also came up with the same urban legend.
In Ukraine Conflict, Putin Relies on a Promise That Ultimately Wasn’t https://nyti.ms/3zE2avP
I know it was never put in writing but it was certainly promised.
And still it's about the big picture. You have two (actually three with China being third these days) super powers. One is creaping to the other and it will come to a point that the other will react to that. Like the US did in 1962 with the Cuba crisis. It would not allow the russians to come that close.
Obviously both parties will try to expand it's influence but it will have frictions now and then. As now it is the case with Ukraine.
Nothing more and nothing less.
p.s: I am not a subscriber to the New York times so I can't read the article you linked.
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Wrong. Go to the reply #78 to get the facts, instead of Putin's propaganda. You can also ask Lizard to help you track that elusive treaty, since he also came up with the same urban legend.
In Ukraine Conflict, Putin Relies on a Promise That Ultimately Wasn’t https://nyti.ms/3zE2avP
I know it was never put in writing but it was certainly promised.
And still it's about the big picture. You have two (actually three with China being third these days) super powers. One is creaping to the other and it will come to a point that the other will react to that. Like the US did in 1962 with the Cuba crisis. It would not allow the russians to come that close.
Obviously both parties will try to expand it's influence but it will have frictions now and then. As now it is the case with Ukraine.
Nothing more and nothing less.
p.s: I am not a subscriber to the New York times so I can't read the article you linked.
No, it was never promised.
It was only a "what if", during negotiations.
If it was promised, but never made it in the treaty, that would made the Russians extremly gullible and naive.
Rest assured that Russians are anything but gullible or naive!
Even Americans live by the motto: "In God we trust, on paper we sign", let alone the Russians
PS. Go to reply #78 and read the main paragraphs I copied from the article.
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Wrong. Go to the reply #78 to get the facts, instead of Putin's propaganda. You can also ask Lizard to help you track that elusive treaty, since he also came up with the same urban legend.
In Ukraine Conflict, Putin Relies on a Promise That Ultimately Wasn’t https://nyti.ms/3zE2avP (https://nyti.ms/3zE2avP)
I know it was never put in writing but it was certainly promised.
And still it's about the big picture. You have two (actually three with China being third these days) super powers. One is creaping to the other and it will come to a point that the other will react to that. Like the US did in 1962 with the Cuba crisis. It would not allow the russians to come that close.
Obviously both parties will try to expand it's influence but it will have frictions now and then. As now it is the case with Ukraine.
Nothing more and nothing less.
p.s: I am not a subscriber to the New York times so I can't read the article you linked.
No, it was never promised.
It was only a "what if", during negotiations.
If it was promised, but never made it in the treaty, that would made the Russians extremly gullible and naive.
Rest assured that Russians are anything but gullible or naive!
Even Americans live by the motto: "In God we trust, on paper we sign", let alone the Russians
PS. Go to reply #78 and read the main paragraphs I copied from the article.
Well there was. Here is an article (November 2009, so well written before the Ukraine crisis and by a respected German newspaper) stating it clearly:
https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nato-s-eastward-expansion-did-the-west-break-its-promise-to-moscow-a-663315.html (https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nato-s-eastward-expansion-did-the-west-break-its-promise-to-moscow-a-663315.html)
Quotes:
"According to the German record of the conversation, which was only recently declassified, Genscher said: "We are aware that NATO membership for a unified Germany raises complicated questions. For us, however, one thing is certain: NATO will not expand to the east." And because the conversion revolved mainly around East Germany, Genscher added explicitly: "As far as the non-expansion of NATO is concerned, this also applies in general.""
"What the US secretary of state said on Feb. 9, 1990 in the magnificent St. Catherine's Hall at the Kremlin is beyond dispute. There would be, in Baker's words, "no extension of NATO's jurisdiction for forces of NATO one inch to the east," provided the Soviets agreed to the NATO membership of a unified Germany. Moscow would think about it, Gorbachev said, but added: "any extension of the zone of NATO is unacceptable.""
Obviously these quotes by the German and the American can be found elsewhere as well.
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Well there was. Here is an article (November 2009, so well written before the Ukraine crisis and by a respected German newspaper) stating it clearly:
https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nato-s-eastward-expansion-did-the-west-break-its-promise-to-moscow-a-663315.html (https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/nato-s-eastward-expansion-did-the-west-break-its-promise-to-moscow-a-663315.html)
Quotes:
"According to the German record of the conversation, which was only recently declassified, Genscher said: "We are aware that NATO membership for a unified Germany raises complicated questions. For us, however, one thing is certain: NATO will not expand to the east." And because the conversion revolved mainly around East Germany, Genscher added explicitly: "As far as the non-expansion of NATO is concerned, this also applies in general.""
"What the US secretary of state said on Feb. 9, 1990 in the magnificent St. Catherine's Hall at the Kremlin is beyond dispute. There would be, in Baker's words, "no extension of NATO's jurisdiction for forces of NATO one inch to the east," provided the Soviets agreed to the NATO membership of a unified Germany. Moscow would think about it, Gorbachev said, but added: "any extension of the zone of NATO is unacceptable."
Obviously, these quotes by the German and the American can be found elsewhere as well.
No, there is nothing in the final treaty signed by Gorbatchev and Baker, nothing about preventing NATO's expansion in other countries. That was something never discussed back then. Remember that the Warsaw Pact was still valid, being dissolved later in July 1991.
The limited "jurisdiction expansion" was part of the discussion during the negotiations, but it was removed from the final treaty. It was only in the "what if" stage.
Baker even said, "I was a bit forward on my skis" because limiting the "jurisdiction expansion" would have meant that NATO would only be allowed to protect half of Germany, and that was absurd.
Helmut Kohl also rejected that limited "jurisdiction expansion" mentioned by his minister of foreign affairs.
The State Department instructed Baker accordingly and this reference was removed, with Russian approval, and all parties signed the final document, based on which NATO did expand its jurisdiction eastwards, in East Germany.
Instead, Russian troops were allowed to remain in East Germany for while and NATO troops moved in only after their departure.
Again, Putin can't go back, distort facts, and claim there was a promise, a promise that's not in the final treaty.
It should make him look stupid, but his propaganda machine is very good at spinning facts.
They should find a better explanation for why he broke The Budapest Memorandum.
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Yes terrible. Before the war we had been to Plitvice Lakes National Park. During the war I thought back to the fact that such a beautiful place was now in a war zone. At the time, it was hard for me to imagine what was going on in the beginning. One Yugoslav area fought against another. Not that one country was conquering another country. That realization came later.
I will try to explain you the two faces of NATO in this example.
So you have 6 countries ( called republics ) forming a Yugoslav union and one being the largest Serbia decided to dominate. So others decided to split. The problem is that in history many Serbs moved to other regions of other countries escaping under Turkish invasions.
So basically you have Croatian regions with population that are mostly Serbs. And they decide to take military action and join those Croatian regions with Serbia supported by the army which was completely in Serbian hands. Big Serbia was their main goal. The war basically started with national army against Croats that had to fight with improvised weapons and sell the national treasures to build an army fast because they had 1/3 of their territory occupied. With minimal or no help from the west Croatia won in 4 years time but the war was devastating.
And than in 1999, exact same situation happens in Serbia just this time their Albanian minority decided to form a country that never existed. A this time NATO reacts in first moments bombing main Serbian infrastructure 100s of miles far away from the problematic zone. Civilian targets, bridges even hospitals. Even if karma is a bitch, and they were our enemies Kosovo as a republic should not exist and its not fair. They lost their ancient territory.
Thats also one thing that pissed Russia because they were supporting Serbia as the west was supporting us. That support was mainly in "good job" not as military or other concrete forms of it.
So there you have it, same scenario, 2 totally different outcomes. That can not be justice.
And war envokes animal in people, yesterdays neighbors and best friends stand of different sides. Even brothers from mixed marriages choose different sides. And media is pumping rage insted to try to stop it and bring some sense in peoples heads.
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Of course, we all are, except for a few russians trolls who are justifying the invasion, using Putin's propaganda, his sophisms and his falacies.
The question is, what do you propose to do to stop the war and prevent an emboldened Putin to move to his next target, like Moldova, and more.
As hards as it seems the only solution is not to make problem bigger. Not to accept those regions in NATO and not to spread its missiles there is the only possible solution and im 99% sure it going to be resolved like that.
Putin is for now attacking tactically, in gloves, avoiding civil targets and that's how you lose people. If he wanted he would just make hug damage from far away and not risk his men. So he is also respecting the potential western force he could face like they are respecting him in military way. Sure, there are civilian targets but they are obviously not the goal. In Yugoslavia they used to shoot exclusively civil targets 15 hours a day and more to force people to escape and then take the city easily avoiding city fight which bring advantage to the weaker.
Unfortunately, Russia is not only showing muscles, they really have them and if the west wants to avoid huge war with catastrophic consequences Russia will get what they want and if that means no Ukraine in NATO i say let them have it. In other scenario there is a potential scenario of no Ukraine at all. And much more...
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Russia propping up dictators like Sadam and Gaddafi plus dozens of other wannabe genocidal maniacs.
Sadam was US best friend until he didn't decided to try to control his oil prices.
Bin Laden was US agent trained at ST. Andrew.
Point.
Until Saddam decided to invade Kuwait. However all his equipment tanks plane etc was Soviet.
I quote "During the anti-Soviet war Bin Laden and his fighters received American and Saudi funding. Some analysts believe Bin Laden himself had security training from the CIA. ... Throughout the '80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage war against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan."
However that's an unproved point and it was the Pakistani ISS who controlled interactions with the anti soviet mujahideen and Bin Laden had his own money the CIA never had many operatives in the region and had to work with Pakistan's ISS
So do a bit of research. 8)
I see you didn't bother with the rest of what I said
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Why are you replying to me then? People around me are, believe me, sick of your hate as much as I am.
because your hate speech and misinformation needs to be met with more speech - not insults, but demonstrations of your misinformation
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Actually, until Kuwait decided to defy Iraq, increase its production and sell cheaper oil. Iraq desperately needed high oil prices, after they spent a fortune fighting Iran.
So, it was Sadam who wanted to control prices of someone else's oil.
He used this as a pretext to invade a smaller country. That's no difderent than Putin invading Ukraine now.
The difference is that, back then, The US and UN had the guts to stand up to Sadam.
No, Saddam was helped by the US because Irak was getting to tight with Iran and Iran was the enemy of the US. The whole Iran-Irak war was supported by the US without making their own hands dirty. The US has a long history of enabling coups and putting puppets in place that served their interest regardless of the population in those countries. France had a large role here as well because of it's major oil interests in the country. Please try to read into this history and understand that all of the world powers are extremely hyopocrite when blaming one and each other.
many of us have lived thru & studied this history for 50+ years of our adult lives. and we've also opposed many of those policies. but 'whataboutism' doesn't mean we (as nations & individuals) can't call out Putin's war crimes
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Yes terrible. Before the war we had been to Plitvice Lakes National Park. During the war I thought back to the fact that such a beautiful place was now in a war zone. At the time, it was hard for me to imagine what was going on in the beginning. One Yugoslav area fought against another. Not that one country was conquering another country. That realization came later.
We traveled thru Syria 20 years ago - besides the horrible human cost of Assad's terror, the country lost major world heritage sites like palmyra.
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...
So you have 6 countries ( called republics ) forming a Yugoslav union and one being the largest Serbia decided to dominate. So others decided to split. The problem is that in history many Serbs moved to other regions of other countries escaping under Turkish invasions.
So basically you have Croatian regions with population that are mostly Serbs. And they decide to take military action and join those Croatian regions with Serbia supported by the army which was completely in Serbian hands. Big Serbia was their main goal. The war basically started with national army against Croats that had to fight with improvised weapons and sell the national treasures to build an army fast because they had 1/3 of their territory occupied. With minimal or no help from the west Croatia won in 4 years time but the war was devastating.
And than in 1999, exact same situation happens in Serbia just this time their Albanian minority decided to form a country that never existed. A this time NATO reacts in first moments bombing main Serbian infrastructure 100s of miles far away from the problematic zone. Civilian targets, bridges even hospitals. Even if karma is a bitch, and they were our enemies Kosovo as a republic should not exist and its not fair. They lost their ancient territory.
...
without going all the way back to Kosovo in 1389, the roots of the post communist wars of the 90s go back to the Balkan wars, Serbia's casus belli starting WWI, and the multiple factions in Yugoslavia during WWII
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without going all the way back to Kosovo in 1389, the roots of the post communist wars of the 90s go back to the Balkan wars, Serbia's casus belli starting WWI, and the multiple factions in Yugoslavia during WWII
Yes, but they also have tragic history. So many centuries under Turks and Venice and Austria using them as a shield. And living under Turkish empire was no fun. Extremely cruel.
Also in WWII Croatia joined Hitler and took it against the Serbs living there. Even Hitler was disgusted what was done to them in those concentration camps. I dont have a problem to be disgusted of what my people did in the past and be ashamed of that. That was one of the reasons they were afraid when we gained independence and I cant blame them. That was a mental weapon used by Milosevic to spread the anger and put gas on fire. And our president Tudjman was no flower whatsoever. So couple of morons used the history to spread the war. We could have easily split apart in peace like Czechoslovakia. Most of people there are normal like everywhere else. Those few % of psychopaths and insane leaders are the reason for wars.
I really traveled a lot after the war. I seriously didn't have one single problem with a person anywhere in the world. I visited poor and "dangerous" neighborhoods and people were always extremely friendly. Our problem is small amount of brainwashed idiots that just love to hate another group that wake up when the fire is lighted and a majority that just watches them do their thing.
This world is a great place and I hope it will stay our home for loner time despite psychos with fingers on red buttons.
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This world is a great place and I hope it will stay our home for loner time despite psychos with fingers on red buttons.
Amen to that!!!
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The only war criminal are nazi Tudjman and nazi Gotovina, who killed civilians during Oluja.
When you already mentioning n.zi. Lets have a little history lesson here, shell we...
Remember this ? Of course you dont, one could end up in Gulag even mentioning it in the cold north.
So..
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/MolotovRibbentropStalin.jpg/732px-MolotovRibbentropStalin.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Tajny_protoko%C5%82_23.08.jpg)
Ribbentrop-Molotov Pakt, or Hitler-Stalin pakt how Germans used to call it signed in august 1939. A little treaty on military and economic cooperation where Russia provides Germans with oil cause Brits blocked their supply, and * shared their military technology with Russia in return.
All that spiced with plans which countries will they attack and how will they share them. Like Finland, Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia which Germans are getting and Romania and Poland will be shared and that's exactly what happened
Then in summer of 41. Germany concluded they are doing just fine and that they don't need Russia anymore and started Barbarossa operation in which they attack Russian part of occupied Poland.
And that's a story on how to lose a friend.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/38/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-H27337%2C_Moskau%2C_Stalin_und_Ribbentrop_im_Kreml.jpg/800px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-H27337%2C_Moskau%2C_Stalin_und_Ribbentrop_im_Kreml.jpg)
But lets not tarnish the name of BIGGEST n.zi oponents and stick to the OFFICIAL story. ;D
So, who is a n.zi now?
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Good point.
Let's continue the history lesson with the shameful "percentage agreement" when Churchill, the "war hero", sold in cold blood, the east of Europe to Stalin, a man who murdered millions on a national scale.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0e/Percentages_agreement2.jpg)
In case you can't read Churchill's handwriting:
Romania
-Russia 90%
-The others 10%
Greece
-Great Britain (in accord with USA) 90%
-Russia 10% (he scratched "the Others" and replaced it with Russia)
Yugoslavia 50-50%
Hungary 50-50%
Bulgaria
-Russia 75%
-The others 25%"
The checkmark is Stalin's.
I have to admit that this is worse than leaving Ukraine on her own devices, in the fight against another Russian tyrant, but fundamentally it's similar to what we see today.
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Good point.
Let's continue the history lesson with the shameful "percentage agreement" when Churchill, the "war hero", sold in cold blood, the east of Europe to Stalin, a man who murdered millions on a national scale.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0e/Percentages_agreement2.jpg)
In case you can't read Churchill's handwriting:
Romania
-Russia 90%
-The others 10%
Greece
-Great Britain (in accord with USA) 90%
-Russia 10% (he scratched "the Others" and replaced it with Russia)
Yugoslavia 50-50%
Hungary 50-50%
Bulgaria
-Russia 75%
-The others 25%"
The checkmark is Stalin's.
I have to admit that this is worse than leaving Ukraine on her own devices, in the fight with another Russian tyrant, but fundamentally it's similar to what we see today.
You cannot compare now to 80 years ago. that is simply bonkers, in fact that is what Putin is doing now and he is as mad as a box of frogs.
Lets just put this in perspective, times change and the world and societies were very different 80+ years ago, you miss all the nuance, pressures and the pragmatic decisions that were made for reasons at the time.
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Lets just put this in perspective, times change and the world and societies were very different 80+ years ago, you miss all the nuance, pressures and the pragmatic decisions that were made for reasons at the time.
You're correct. And that's because Zero doesn't "do" nuance. All he does is bully and demean.
He's pathetic. Not worth arguing with.
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Good point.
Let's continue the history lesson with the shameful "percentage agreement" when Churchill, the "war hero", sold in cold blood, the east of Europe to Stalin, a man who murdered millions on a national scale.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0e/Percentages_agreement2.jpg)
In case you can't read Churchill's handwriting:
Romania
-Russia 90%
-The others 10%
Greece
-Great Britain (in accord with USA) 90%
-Russia 10% (he scratched "the Others" and replaced it with Russia)
Yugoslavia 50-50%
Hungary 50-50%
Bulgaria
-Russia 75%
-The others 25%"
The checkmark is Stalin's.
I have to admit that this is worse than leaving Ukraine on her own devices, in the fight with another Russian tyrant, but fundamentally it's similar to what we see today.
You cannot compare now to 80 years ago. that is simply bonkers, in fact that is what Putin is doing now and he is as mad as a box of frogs.
Lets just put this in perspective, times change and the world and societies were very different 80+ years ago, you miss all the nuance, pressures and the pragmatic decisions that were made for reasons at the time.
A wise man once said: "Those Who Do Not Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It"
... and "strangely", history repeats itself. :(
Edit: My dear Martha, I know you can produce, some on-topic, decent arguments, instead of cheap ad-hominem and sexist attacks. I know you can do better!
Love :-*
-
PS. My dear Martha, I know you can produce, some on-topic, decent arguments, instead of cheap ad-hominem attacks. I know you can do better! Love :-*
I have nothing to gain from producing "some on-topic, decent arguments." There's no point. Not worth the bother.
And it is you, darling Zero, who produces cheap ad-hominem attacks.
Pathetic way to deal with fellow human beings. Just pathetic.
I fully intend to keep calling you out.
-
A wise man once said: "Those Who Do Not Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It"
History Does Not Repeat Itself, But It Rhymes ;)
-
PS. My dear Martha, I know you can produce, some on-topic, decent arguments, instead of cheap ad-hominem attacks. I know you can do better! Love :-*
I have nothing to gain from producing "some on-topic, decent arguments." There's no point. Not worth the bother.
And it is you, darling Zero, who produces cheap ad-hominem attacks.
Pathetic way to deal with fellow human beings. Just pathetic.
I fully intend to keep calling you out.
Yes, indeed: you have nothing now.
But I know you can do better than sexist and ad-hominem attacks.
I believe in you, Martha!
Love!
:-*
-
A wise man once said: "Those Who Do Not Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It"
History Does Not Repeat Itself, But It Rhymes ;)
That's a good one, Thijs!
Unfortunately, it also "rhymes" for those who do learn from history. :(
-
You cannot compare now to 80 years ago. that is simply bonkers, in fact that is what Putin is doing now and he is as mad as a box of frogs.
Lets just put this in perspective, times change and the world and societies were very different 80+ years ago, you miss all the nuance, pressures and the pragmatic decisions that were made for reasons at the time.
Thank you, that's what I thought the whole time during the little history lesson here.
It makes little sense to dig up the sins of individual countries from the past and then draw conclusions about the present.
We don't burn witches in Europe anymore - and that for good reason ;)
-
Finally Russia have send a clear message: dear Americans, your time as world policeman is over. You have been dropping bombs on Syria, Iraq, Libya, Serbia, Vietnam, Japan, etc., but it stops right now. What you gonna do? Will you crap your pants? Yes you will.
Weird, is not it? Of course you don't agree with that either.
Hadn't Russia dropped a few bombs on Syria too? At hospitals. Oh no, they denied that. And we've never caught them in a lie. A Dutch plane shot out of the sky. Oh no, they denied that too.
Ukraine attacked. Oh no, that was an exercise. Oh no, but it is an army of peace. Which country kills its own countrymen?
Coincidentally, I am now listening to a Dutch journalist, who has lived in Russia for thirty years, wrote that this would not happen and is now in shock that a brother nation is being murdered. like many of his Russians friends are in shock he said.
I've never said Russians are good boys. But, let's look again: Vietnam, Laos, Panama, Yugoslavia, Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan. Let's also look, I don0t know, tortures in Guantanamo. Or native Americans genocide. Or Israel. What about two atomic bombs? Are you blind or ignorant? You compare a journalist with 5.000.000 Vietnamese? Really?
Russia has demanded an end to NATO’s eastward expansion and said Ukrainian membership of the US-led Atlantic military alliance was unacceptable.
Can you do it? Thinking I mean.
Now I can say that Afghanistan became especially problematic after the failed Russian invasion in that country and that attacks were organized from Afghanistan on the west (Nine eleven). So there is more to say. But I'm not saying that the West doesn't make mistakes. In the Netherlands (also in America by the way) there were protests against the war in Vietnam.
The problem is that many former Soviet countries want to be independent. But be afraid of Russia and apply for that membership. And when I see what is happening to Ukraine now, I understand.
There is no hatred towards the Russian people from the west. Even now they are not held responsible.
No western country wants to attack Russia.
For years (except for a few countries) Europe has been cutting back on their defenses because they thought there would be no more war with Russia. Even as Russia continued to expand its military.
As we all know, NATO gone too far with its expansion towards Russia. And Russia is not Japan, Serbia, Libya, Iraq or Vietnam. There is no problem, all ex Soviet Union countries are now independent. There is hate from the West, it has always been.
Next conflict will be in Taiwan.
Oh, what about recent bombing of Syria. Yep, Israel did it again. But there is no media coverage.
-
This is rather long, I've only watched the first 25 mins so far, but it could be an interesting insight into Putin's mental state and the background of that mental state.
Caveat: it's just one person's opinion and for some reason the interviewer, a smart medical doctor (whom I've been following for a dissemination of Covid research for months), says nuclear like IIRC Dubya used to. Try to blot it out!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYmt4qu00uc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYmt4qu00uc)
-
...
So you have 6 countries ( called republics ) forming a Yugoslav union and one being the largest Serbia decided to dominate. So others decided to split. The problem is that in history many Serbs moved to other regions of other countries escaping under Turkish invasions.
So basically you have Croatian regions with population that are mostly Serbs. And they decide to take military action and join those Croatian regions with Serbia supported by the army which was completely in Serbian hands. Big Serbia was their main goal. The war basically started with national army against Croats that had to fight with improvised weapons and sell the national treasures to build an army fast because they had 1/3 of their territory occupied. With minimal or no help from the west Croatia won in 4 years time but the war was devastating.
And than in 1999, exact same situation happens in Serbia just this time their Albanian minority decided to form a country that never existed. A this time NATO reacts in first moments bombing main Serbian infrastructure 100s of miles far away from the problematic zone. Civilian targets, bridges even hospitals. Even if karma is a bitch, and they were our enemies Kosovo as a republic should not exist and its not fair. They lost their ancient territory.
...
without going all the way back to Kosovo in 1389, the roots of the post communist wars of the 90s go back to the Balkan wars, Serbia's casus belli starting WWI, and the multiple factions in Yugoslavia during WWII
You skipped history lesson in school? WWI started Austro-Hungarian empire. Try to learn sometimes. It really helps.
-
As we all know, NATO gone too far with its expansion towards Russia. And Russia is not Japan, Serbia, Libya, Iraq or Vietnam. There is no problem, all ex Soviet Union countries are now independent. There is hate from the West, it has always been.
No, WE don't know that.
It's not NATO, it's the democratic free will of those countries, who freely opted and voted to join an alliance able to ensure their independence.
And the independence of former Soviet republics is only real for those ex-soviet republics that are today protected by NATO, like the Baltic countries.
Georgia's independence has been trampled by Russian tanks, the Russian army is still occupying Moldovan territory, Belarus's "independence" is a joke.
And we can all see what's going on with Ukraine's independence...
#russiantrollalert
-
So much about western media. It's coronavirus 2.0 when it comes to lies and manipulations.
-
Finally Russia have send a clear message: dear Americans, your time as world policeman is over. You have been dropping bombs on Syria, Iraq, Libya, Serbia, Vietnam, Japan, etc., but it stops right now. What you gonna do? Will you crap your pants? Yes you will.
Weird, is not it? Of course you don't agree with that either.
Hadn't Russia dropped a few bombs on Syria too? At hospitals. Oh no, they denied that. And we've never caught them in a lie. A Dutch plane shot out of the sky. Oh no, they denied that too.
Ukraine attacked. Oh no, that was an exercise. Oh no, but it is an army of peace. Which country kills its own countrymen?
Coincidentally, I am now listening to a Dutch journalist, who has lived in Russia for thirty years, wrote that this would not happen and is now in shock that a brother nation is being murdered. like many of his Russians friends are in shock he said.
I've never said Russians are good boys. But, let's look again: Vietnam, Laos, Panama, Yugoslavia, Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan. Let's also look, I don0t know, tortures in Guantanamo. Or native Americans genocide. Or Israel. What about two atomic bombs? Are you blind or ignorant? You compare a journalist with 5.000.000 Vietnamese? Really?
Russia has demanded an end to NATO’s eastward expansion and said Ukrainian membership of the US-led Atlantic military alliance was unacceptable.
Can you do it? Thinking I mean.
Now I can say that Afghanistan became especially problematic after the failed Russian invasion in that country and that attacks were organized from Afghanistan on the west (Nine eleven). So there is more to say. But I'm not saying that the West doesn't make mistakes. In the Netherlands (also in America by the way) there were protests against the war in Vietnam.
The problem is that many former Soviet countries want to be independent. But be afraid of Russia and apply for that membership. And when I see what is happening to Ukraine now, I understand.
There is no hatred towards the Russian people from the west. Even now they are not held responsible.
No western country wants to attack Russia.
For years (except for a few countries) Europe has been cutting back on their defenses because they thought there would be no more war with Russia. Even as Russia continued to expand its military.
As we all know, NATO gone too far with its expansion towards Russia. And Russia is not Japan, Serbia, Libya, Iraq or Vietnam. There is no problem, all ex Soviet Union countries are now independent. There is hate from the West, it has always been.
Next conflict will be in Taiwan.
Oh, what about recent bombing of Syria. Yep, Israel did it again. But there is no media coverage.
No hatred towards the Russian people. Never been. Usually no sympathy for their government. Also sympathy for for example Gorbachev and ultimately also for Nikita Khrushchev.
I don't know how you get all this hate.
All your examples don't justify the bombing of Ukraine.
Syria is not a good example because they were also bombed by Russia.
-
Good point.
Let's continue the history lesson with the shameful "percentage agreement" when Churchill, the "war hero", sold in cold blood, the east of Europe to Stalin, a man who murdered millions on a national scale.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0e/Percentages_agreement2.jpg)
In case you can't read Churchill's handwriting:
Romania
-Russia 90%
-The others 10%
Greece
-Great Britain (in accord with USA) 90%
-Russia 10% (he scratched "the Others" and replaced it with Russia)
Yugoslavia 50-50%
Hungary 50-50%
Bulgaria
-Russia 75%
-The others 25%"
The checkmark is Stalin's.
I have to admit that this is worse than leaving Ukraine on her own devices, in the fight with another Russian tyrant, but fundamentally it's similar to what we see today.
You cannot compare now to 80 years ago. that is simply bonkers, in fact that is what Putin is doing now and he is as mad as a box of frogs.
Lets just put this in perspective, times change and the world and societies were very different 80+ years ago, you miss all the nuance, pressures and the pragmatic decisions that were made for reasons at the time.
A wise man once said: "Those Who Do Not Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It"
... and "strangely", history repeats itself. :(
Edit: My dear Martha, I know you can produce, some on-topic, decent arguments, instead of cheap ad-hominem and sexist attacks. I know you can do better!
Love :-*
Well if you want a history lesson the second world war was merely the postponed continuation of the first world war.
Lets face it who at the end of the second world war was going to argue with Josef Stalin?
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So much about western media. It's coronavirus 2.0 when it comes to lies and manipulations.
The first casualty of war is always the truth.
Remember the 13 heroes that defended this island in the Black sea and offered their lives defending it according to a very emotional Zelinsky. They are all alive and probably surrendered since they were captured by the russians. I don't think they will receive the medals of honor from Zelinksy after all. Zelinksy told many lies as well as the mayor of Kiev. First the capital was completely surrounded and a few hours later it was not. Both statements directly from his mouth.
But then again the russians lie as well. They had never plans of invading Ukraine and they did anyway. They were only on a exercise but were planning it all along this past months.
But that's war. Manipulating public opinion through lies is half of the battle.
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Good point.
Let's continue the history lesson with the shameful "percentage agreement" when Churchill, the "war hero", sold in cold blood, the east of Europe to Stalin, a man who murdered millions on a national scale.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0e/Percentages_agreement2.jpg)
In case you can't read Churchill's handwriting:
Romania
-Russia 90%
-The others 10%
Greece
-Great Britain (in accord with USA) 90%
-Russia 10% (he scratched "the Others" and replaced it with Russia)
Yugoslavia 50-50%
Hungary 50-50%
Bulgaria
-Russia 75%
-The others 25%"
The checkmark is Stalin's.
I have to admit that this is worse than leaving Ukraine on her own devices, in the fight with another Russian tyrant, but fundamentally it's similar to what we see today.
You cannot compare now to 80 years ago. that is simply bonkers, in fact that is what Putin is doing now and he is as mad as a box of frogs.
Lets just put this in perspective, times change and the world and societies were very different 80+ years ago, you miss all the nuance, pressures and the pragmatic decisions that were made for reasons at the time.
A wise man once said: "Those Who Do Not Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It"
... and "strangely", history repeats itself. :(
Edit: My dear Martha, I know you can produce, some on-topic, decent arguments, instead of cheap ad-hominem and sexist attacks. I know you can do better!
Love :-*
Wiseman?
Oh you mean the Harvard professor George Santayana, who said “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
-
Good point.
Let's continue the history lesson with the shameful "percentage agreement" when Churchill, the "war hero", sold in cold blood, the east of Europe to Stalin, a man who murdered millions on a national scale.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0e/Percentages_agreement2.jpg)
In case you can't read Churchill's handwriting:
Romania
-Russia 90%
-The others 10%
Greece
-Great Britain (in accord with USA) 90%
-Russia 10% (he scratched "the Others" and replaced it with Russia)
Yugoslavia 50-50%
Hungary 50-50%
Bulgaria
-Russia 75%
-The others 25%"
The checkmark is Stalin's.
I have to admit that this is worse than leaving Ukraine on her own devices, in the fight with another Russian tyrant, but fundamentally it's similar to what we see today.
You cannot compare now to 80 years ago. that is simply bonkers, in fact that is what Putin is doing now and he is as mad as a box of frogs.
Lets just put this in perspective, times change and the world and societies were very different 80+ years ago, you miss all the nuance, pressures and the pragmatic decisions that were made for reasons at the time.
A wise man once said: "Those Who Do Not Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It"
... and "strangely", history repeats itself. :(
Edit: My dear Martha, I know you can produce, some on-topic, decent arguments, instead of cheap ad-hominem and sexist attacks. I know you can do better!
Love :-*
Wiseman?
Oh you mean the Harvard professor George Santayana, who said “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
Yes, that Wiseman, indeed. Yours is the original form.
-
Good point.
Let's continue the history lesson with the shameful "percentage agreement" when Churchill, the "war hero", sold in cold blood, the east of Europe to Stalin, a man who murdered millions on a national scale.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0e/Percentages_agreement2.jpg)
In case you can't read Churchill's handwriting:
Romania
-Russia 90%
-The others 10%
Greece
-Great Britain (in accord with USA) 90%
-Russia 10% (he scratched "the Others" and replaced it with Russia)
Yugoslavia 50-50%
Hungary 50-50%
Bulgaria
-Russia 75%
-The others 25%"
The checkmark is Stalin's.
I have to admit that this is worse than leaving Ukraine on her own devices, in the fight with another Russian tyrant, but fundamentally it's similar to what we see today.
You cannot compare now to 80 years ago. that is simply bonkers, in fact that is what Putin is doing now and he is as mad as a box of frogs.
Lets just put this in perspective, times change and the world and societies were very different 80+ years ago, you miss all the nuance, pressures and the pragmatic decisions that were made for reasons at the time.
A wise man once said: "Those Who Do Not Learn History Are Doomed To Repeat It"
... and "strangely", history repeats itself. :(
Edit: My dear Martha, I know you can produce, some on-topic, decent arguments, instead of cheap ad-hominem and sexist attacks. I know you can do better!
Love :-*
Well if you want a history lesson the second world war was merely the postponed continuation of the first world war.
Lets face it who at the end of the second world war was going to argue with Josef Stalin?
Yes, WWII is a continuation of WWI, and WWI is a consequence of older European conflicts.
Who was going to argue with Stalin? Not Churchill, the "hero", obviously!
The burning question is, who is going to argue with Putin, today, once he takes over Ukraine and more.
Anyway, the real history should acknowledge that WWII only ended in 1989, when the Berlin Wall fell, and when the consequences of all those shameful WWII agreements (like Churchill's percentage agreement) were corrected (to a large extent).
And this makes today's conflict a continuation of WWII because Russia doesn't like these corrections.
History IS repeating itself.
-
..
When you already mentioning n.zi. Lets have a little history lesson here, shell we...
Remember this ? Of course you dont, one could end up in Gulag even mentioning it in the cold north.
So..
Ribbentrop-Molotov Pakt, or Hitler-Stalin pakt how Germans used to call it signed in august 1939. A little treaty on military and economic cooperation where Russia provides Germans with oil cause Brits blocked their supply, and * shared their military technology with Russia in return.
?
i've actually agreed with your recent posts about history - but you don't need insult your audience by assuming we're ignorant of history. I've been studying history, and particularly WWII for 50 years (i mentioned the Ribbentrop-Molotov just a few posts ago)
-
Good point.
Let's continue the history lesson with the shameful "percentage agreement" when Churchill, the "war hero", sold in cold blood, the east of Europe to Stalin, a man who murdered millions on a national scale.
In case you can't read Churchill's handwriting:
Romania
-Russia 90%
-The others 10%
Greece
-Great Britain (in accord with USA) 90%
-Russia 10% (he scratched "the Others" and replaced it with Russia)
Yugoslavia 50-50%
Hungary 50-50%
Bulgaria
-Russia 75%
-The others 25%"
The checkmark is Stalin's.
I have to admit that this is worse than leaving Ukraine on her own devices, in the fight against another Russian tyrant, but fundamentally it's similar to what we see today.
yes, this callous betrayal of eastern europe was matched in later years by the hypocritical west being shocked by Stalin's takeovers (while at the same time Stalin in a rare move did not send support to the communists in the Greek civil war)
then there was the joint UK-USSR invasion of neutral Iran in 1941 https://www.rferl.org/a/1058759.html (https://www.rferl.org/a/1058759.html)
-
Good point.
Let's continue the history lesson with the shameful "percentage agreement" when Churchill, the "war hero", sold in cold blood, the east of Europe to Stalin, a man who murdered millions on a national scale.
In case you can't read Churchill's handwriting:
Romania
-Russia 90%
-The others 10%
Greece
-Great Britain (in accord with USA) 90%
-Russia 10% (he scratched "the Others" and replaced it with Russia)
Yugoslavia 50-50%
Hungary 50-50%
Bulgaria
-Russia 75%
-The others 25%"
The checkmark is Stalin's.
I have to admit that this is worse than leaving Ukraine on her own devices, in the fight against another Russian tyrant, but fundamentally it's similar to what we see today.
yes, this callous betrayal of eastern europe was matched in later years by the hypocritical west being shocked by Stalin's takeovers (while at the same time Stalin in a rare move did not send support to the communists in the Greek civil war)
then there was the joint UK-USSR invasion of neutral Iran in 1941 https://www.rferl.org/a/1058759.html (https://www.rferl.org/a/1058759.html)
Correct!
The communist party in Romania was basically inexistent, with no more than 1000 members, while in Greece, the communists were a powerful force.
And yet, Stalin betrayed his Greek supporters, while Britain invaded Greece, (mind you after the so-called end of WWII) to crush the communists.
All in line with the infamous Churchill-Stalin "percentage agreement"!
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You cannot compare now to 80 years ago. that is simply bonkers, in fact that is what Putin is doing now and he is as mad as a box of frogs.
Lets just put this in perspective, times change and the world and societies were very different 80+ years ago, you miss all the nuance, pressures and the pragmatic decisions that were made for reasons at the time.
which is it? do we not compare? or do we take a nuanced view?
we MUST consider history for a perspective on current events. the history of the post WWII beginnings of the cold war has been forgotten/revised in western foreign policy - 'victors' rewrite history (more shades of 1984)
one example - USSR was criticized for declaring war on Japan & invading after Hiroshima. however, Stalin was upholding his promise at the February 1945 Yalta Conference, where he agreed that the Soviet Union would enter the war against Japan three months after Germany's surrender. that date was Aug 8,1945
The US dropped a second bomb on Nagasaki on Aug 9. neither bomb was necessary - Japan had no merchant marine left for supply; its major cities were already firebombed, so there was no need to invade (the excuse for using the bomb)
-
You cannot compare now to 80 years ago. that is simply bonkers, in fact that is what Putin is doing now and he is as mad as a box of frogs.
Lets just put this in perspective, times change and the world and societies were very different 80+ years ago, you miss all the nuance, pressures and the pragmatic decisions that were made for reasons at the time.
Thank you, that's what I thought the whole time during the little history lesson here.
It makes little sense to dig up the sins of individual countries from the past and then draw conclusions about the present.
We don't burn witches in Europe anymore - and that for good reason ;)
we can't forget the past -- nothing excuses Russian aggression, but from a Russian POV their actions to add a buffer zone are justified by a history multiple invasions from medieval times thru Napoleon in 1812, Crimean War in 1853 & Hitler's invasion (causing 8 MILLION military deaths & 15-20+ million civilian deaths)
-
without going all the way back to Kosovo in 1389, the roots of the post communist wars of the 90s go back to the Balkan wars, Serbia's casus belli starting WWI, and the multiple factions in Yugoslavia during WWII
You skipped history lesson in school? WWI started Austro-Hungarian empire. Try to learn sometimes. It really helps.
why insult? especially when you're mistaken -- look up casus belli - while not explaining the origins of WWI, it was the assassination by Serbians that eventually led AH to invade Serbia, triggering mobilizations & WWI
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You cannot compare now to 80 years ago. that is simply bonkers, in fact that is what Putin is doing now and he is as mad as a box of frogs.
Lets just put this in perspective, times change and the world and societies were very different 80+ years ago, you miss all the nuance, pressures and the pragmatic decisions that were made for reasons at the time.
Thank you, that's what I thought the whole time during the little history lesson here.
It makes little sense to dig up the sins of individual countries from the past and then draw conclusions about the present.
We don't burn witches in Europe anymore - and that for good reason ;)
we can't forget the past -- nothing excuses Russian aggression, but from a Russian POV their actions to add a buffer zone are justified by a history multiple invasions from medieval times thru Napoleon in 1812, Crimean War in 1853 & Hitler's invasion (causing 8 MILLION military deaths & 15-20+ million civilian deaths)
Correct. In my youth, many older people in the Netherlands still had an antipthia for Germany, fear that that time would return.
But that was a long time ago. Germany is now a good neighbor.
This was not entirely true for Russia after the Cold War, but the fear had disappeared (reflected in the low defense budget).
Putin apparently stuck in that history. And he was probably never able to accept the collapse of the Soviet Union. Actually a pathetic man if he wasn't so dangerous.
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without going all the way back to Kosovo in 1389, the roots of the post communist wars of the 90s go back to the Balkan wars, Serbia's casus belli starting WWI, and the multiple factions in Yugoslavia during WWII
You skipped history lesson in school? WWI started Austro-Hungarian empire. Try to learn sometimes. It really helps.
why insult?
Why insult? That's actually a great question, Steve. And the pattern of insults seems to be spreading here.
WW III may break out on this forum long before it lights up the skies anywhere else up.
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Putin apparently stuck in that history. And he was probably never able to accept the collapse of the Soviet Union. Actually a pathetic man if he wasn't so dangerous.
Most men who start wars actually are pathetic human beings. They're dangerous because they're so abnormal that they can't establish normal relationships. They have to dominate everyone around them.
There are pathetic people just like that on this forum right now too. Sad.
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Good point.
Let's continue the history lesson with the shameful "percentage agreement" when Churchill, the "war hero", sold in cold blood, the east of Europe to Stalin, a man who murdered millions on a national scale.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0e/Percentages_agreement2.jpg)
In case you can't read Churchill's handwriting:
Romania
-Russia 90%
-The others 10%
Greece
-Great Britain (in accord with USA) 90%
-Russia 10% (he scratched "the Others" and replaced it with Russia)
Yugoslavia 50-50%
Hungary 50-50%
Bulgaria
-Russia 75%
-The others 25%"
The checkmark is Stalin's.
I have to admit that this is worse than leaving Ukraine on her own devices, in the fight against another Russian tyrant, but fundamentally it's similar to what we see today.
Well, whatever percentage of Yugoslavia someone might have given Russia didn't have a single bit of influence on it. Stalin tried to assassinate Yugoslav president Tito exactly 22 times.
Then he received a message from Tito. "Dear Stalin if you send one more of your assassins I will send one to Russia. And I wont need to send a second one I assure you."
He never tried again. So that's the relationship Yugoslavia had with Russia.
He didnt like Tito since the war, because Yugoslavia was the only European country that liberate itself from naz.is without any help from allies. When war was basically over Russian troupes wanted to enter and "help" and Tito put a veto on it saying that when he did 99% of the job alone he will manage the remaining one.
From that day the things between Russia and Yugoslavia were all but friendly and Yugoslavia was the only Slavic country that basically had nothing to do with the eastern block.
He was also a founder of Non-Aligned Movement (NAM) which was NATO and communist Warsaw Pact alternative for countries that didn't want to stand next to any of dominant forces. It soon included 120 countries and was the largest alliance in the world.
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Yes, there are even claims that Stalin died not from a stroke but poisoned, when he was found paralysed and vomiting blood.
In that scenario, the main suspect is Tito. But there is no hard evidence to prove this hypothesis.
Anyway, one can't deny that that 50-50% written next to Yugoslavia was rather close to the reality on the ground.
Yes, Yugoslavia was a communist country, but yugoslavs were free to travel in the west, could own small companies, and overall Yugoslavia had the highest standard of living among communist countries (maybe together with East Germany).
Besides:
"United States supported Yugoslavia’s efforts in 1949 to gain a seat on the prestigious Security Council at the United Nations. In 1951, President Truman asked Congress to provide economic and military assistance to Yugoslavia. This aid was granted."
This looks very much like the "other" 50%.
Somehow, those percentages turned out to be rather close to reality on all cases, except for Hungary. But that's because of the 1956 Russian invasion.
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The sanctions are biting:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60558731 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60558731)
From the Ministry of Misinformation
https://www.rt.com/ (https://www.rt.com/)
-
Neville Chamberlain redux:
https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1498626307609047041
-
Why was the other thread deleted, couldn't the repeated argument posts just be removed? Sucks that everyone else's posts end up in the bin too.
-
Neville Chamberlain redux:
https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1498626307609047041
Maybe not everybody is waiting on escalation and a World War III with a possibility of nuclear strikes. And then again Ukraine has not been very sweet either in the last eight years. As a European I am not really celebrating the thought that Ukraine might join the EU with their corrupt moral, politicians and companies. They are not that different from russians in general in that light. So forgive me for being selfish, I don't see the use of getting drawn into this war with massive consequences for my own country. But good for you, I have not a lot to say about it. I just hope my politicians will come to their senses and not put more oil on the fire. Russia will confisquate everything eastern of the Dnjepr anyway. It's just a matter of time and how many sacrifices you want to make in prolonging it a bit longer.
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Just an example:
https://ti-ukraine.org/en/news/no-progress-ukraine-s-result-in-the-corruption-perceptions-index-2021/
Quote:
"Ukraine scored 32 points out of 100 possible in the Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI) for 2021. Our indicator has decreased by one point, and now Ukraine ranks 122nd out of 180 countries in the CPI."
So rather not join the EU. We have to many poor brothers already.
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Why was the other thread deleted, couldn't the repeated argument posts just be removed? Sucks that everyone else's posts end up in the bin too.
Yes indeed a pity. But I do understand it. It degenerated into personal insults instead of giving opinions and discussion. I already skipped a lot.
I can't delete my input myself like on the Shutterforum. I don't know if that is possible for anyone else. maybe by Leaf, but I can imagine that he doesn't feel like it.
I don't think the Diamond members can do that and some of them were involved in the "discussion" themselves.
But it is annoying that in this way every interesting discussion ends up in the trash.
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Why was the other thread deleted, couldn't the repeated argument posts just be removed? Sucks that everyone else's posts end up in the bin too.
I would have been happy to cease that particular line of argument, but as long as I'm being demeaned and ridiculed as an old and feeble-minded, albeit "sweet" woman, I'll persist. Still, I'm sure Zero and I could have declared a cease-fire at some point.
Yes, our particular comments could have been deleted, while the thread was preserved.
If Leaf wants to do that and restore it, I pledge to cease and desist if Zero also agrees to those terms.
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Why was the other thread deleted, couldn't the repeated argument posts just be removed? Sucks that everyone else's posts end up in the bin too.
Yes indeed a pity. But I do understand it. It degenerated into personal insults instead of giving opinions and discussion. I already skipped a lot.
I can't delete my input myself like on the Shutterforum. I don't know if that is possible for anyone else. maybe by Leaf, but I can imagine that he doesn't feel like it.
I don't think the Diamond members can do that and some of them were involved in the "discussion" themselves.
But it is annoying that in this way every interesting discussion ends up in the trash.
I believe Zero Talent deleted it himself as it says 'Author: Zero Talent, last post: Zero Talent'.
I am the author and as far as I remember Martha was the last person to post.
Thijs, you can go into a post and edit it, then remove everything, leaving just a full stop. Then it updates with the text removed, and the full stop remaining.
Apart from this, I don't believe you can actually delete a post.
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That thread has been rightfully locked by the admins.
No edits nor replies are possible anymore.
Given the serious quality decay it suffered, it rightfully belongs to the Garbage Bin, where it can still be consulted, by anyone interested.
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Why was the other thread deleted, couldn't the repeated argument posts just be removed? Sucks that everyone else's posts end up in the bin too.
Yes indeed a pity. But I do understand it. It degenerated into personal insults instead of giving opinions and discussion. I already skipped a lot.
I can't delete my input myself like on the Shutterforum. I don't know if that is possible for anyone else. maybe by Leaf, but I can imagine that he doesn't feel like it.
I don't think the Diamond members can do that and some of them were involved in the "discussion" themselves.
But it is annoying that in this way every interesting discussion ends up in the trash.
I believe Zero Talent deleted it himself as it says 'Author: Zero Talent, last post: Zero Talent'.
I am the author and as far as I remember Martha was the last person to post.
Thijs, you can go into a post and edit it, then remove everything, leaving just a full stop. Then it updates with the text removed, and the full stop remaining.
Apart from this, I don't believe you can actually delete a post.
Yes I did too Debbie. I've used "Quote" several times instead of "Modify". To which I saw my text twice. Then I just made a dot of it. :-)
So you can do that Zero and Martha. That seems like a good idea to me.
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That thread has been rightfully locked by the admins.
No edits nor replies are possible anymore.
Given the serious quality decay it suffered, it rightfully belongs to the Garbage Bin, where it can still be consulted, by anyone interested.
It would be nice if this thread lives on for a while Zero.
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That thread has been rightfully locked by the admins.
No edits nor replies are possible anymore.
Given the serious quality decay it suffered, it rightfully belongs to the Garbage Bin, where it can still be consulted, by anyone interested.
It would be nice if this thread lives on for a while Zero.
Yes, I'd like this very much.
Ukraine's tragedy is heartbreaking, and people should be able to hear varied opinions, not just what they get from their news bubble.
Maybe we should change its title and move it to the off-topic section.
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Thank you for your concern, even though it’s backhanded. Just wait. You’ll see. 😂 Did you bother to look up the WEF? The Great Reset? Those who live in the UK should understand, it’s happening there. I don’t expect many to come to my defense because no one wants to be called mentally ill. And most WILL think I'm crazy.
Remember the scoffing at #plandemic? Gosh, have you heard much about rona in the past week? It just magically disappeared! Of course you are going to say the vacseens eradicated it. Have you looked at the VAERS data on vacs injuries? No bet not. Have you seen that even the CDC is withholding info and backtracking? Have you seen that pfizzer and mod-er na stocks are dropping and investors are bailing?
rona = out war = in But you go ahead and stay blind. 😀
I’ll just leave this, just in case some have an open mind. Pay attention to the members, too.
https://www.weforum.org/partners/ (https://www.weforum.org/partners/)
Carry on.
[/quote]
Hi Cathy - I try and keep an open mind about such things - very strange and upsetting things recently in Canada too. A lot of things don't make sense.
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Thank you for your concern, even though it’s backhanded. Just wait. You’ll see. 😂 Did you bother to look up the WEF? The Great Reset? Those who live in the UK should understand, it’s happening there. I don’t expect many to come to my defense because no one wants to be called mentally ill. And most WILL think I'm crazy.
Remember the scoffing at #plandemic? Gosh, have you heard much about rona in the past week? It just magically disappeared! Of course you are going to say the vacseens eradicated it. Have you looked at the VAERS data on vacs injuries? No bet not. Have you seen that even the CDC is withholding info and backtracking? Have you seen that pfizzer and mod-er na stocks are dropping and investors are bailing?
rona = out war = in But you go ahead and stay blind. 😀
I’ll just leave this, just in case some have an open mind. Pay attention to the members, too.
https://www.weforum.org/partners/ (https://www.weforum.org/partners/)
Carry on.
Hi Cathy - I try and keep an open mind about such things - very strange and upsetting things recently in Canada too. A lot of things don't make sense.
Oh no. Let's not talk about Corona now. A mild variant, many vaccinated. Spring is coming. Huge numbers of infections, as a result of which the refusers, children have also had it. My neighbor children, grandchildren have had it. let's hope that in these difficult times a dangerous variant does not appear again. We old people (My wife heart problems, diabetic) remain a bit careful.
In many countries, including the Netherlands, all measures were phased out before misery broke out in Ukraine. Probably also in Russia, which made it easier for Putin to do this.
Many Dutch people have already signed up to fight there, I read. Just like in England I saw on television. it's all so sad.
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Oh no. Let's not talk about Corona now.
Yep! In case some didn't realize, there are two Corona threads in the Garbage Bin, already.
Plenty of "info" there! No need to repeat it here.
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Oh no. Let's not talk about Corona now.
Yep! In case some didn't realize, there are two Corona threads in the Garbage Bin, already.
Plenty of "info" there! No need to repeat it here.
I agree with you again Zero. :)
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Yes, there are even claims that Stalin died not from a stroke but poisoned, when he was found paralysed and vomiting blood.
In that scenario, the main suspect is Tito. But there is no hard evidence to prove this hypothesis...
then there's "The Death of Stalin" https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4686844/ (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4686844/) well worth several viewings
cast includes:
Steve Buscemi as Nikita Khrushchev
Simon Russell Beale as Lavrenti Beria
Jason Isaacs as Georgy Zhukov
Michael Palin as Vyacheslav Molotov
Jeffrey Tambor as Georgy Malenkov
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The day Ukraine was attacked, a group of people walked past our front door demonstrating against the government's Corona measures. From a loudspeaker a song sounded: "I don't want to conform anymore, I want to take my freedom back into my own hands...".
This was perhaps one of the saddest moments in my life. These people have only one thing in focus: themselves.
There was an entire nation under attack, the freedom of the citizens of this country was under attack, and people were walking by down there whose only problem is that they had to wear masks to protect themselves and others.
Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest because it's just unbearable. But I'll end this topic and I won't start it again.
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That thread has been rightfully locked by the admins.
No edits nor replies are possible anymore.
Given the serious quality decay it suffered, it rightfully belongs to the Garbage Bin, where it can still be consulted, by anyone interested.
i've moved it to 'off topic' where it can still be consulted, by anyone interested.
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You cannot compare now to 80 years ago. that is simply bonkers, in fact that is what Putin is doing now and he is as mad as a box of frogs.
Lets just put this in perspective, times change and the world and societies were very different 80+ years ago, you miss all the nuance, pressures and the pragmatic decisions that were made for reasons at the time.
Thank you, that's what I thought the whole time during the little history lesson here.
It makes little sense to dig up the sins of individual countries from the past and then draw conclusions about the present.
We don't burn witches in Europe anymore - and that for good reason ;)
we can't forget the past -- nothing excuses Russian aggression, but from a Russian POV their actions to add a buffer zone are justified by a history multiple invasions from medieval times thru Napoleon in 1812, Crimean War in 1853 & Hitler's invasion (causing 8 MILLION military deaths & 15-20+ million civilian deaths)
Correct. In my youth, many older people in the Netherlands still had an antipthia for Germany, fear that that time would return.
But that was a long time ago. Germany is now a good neighbor.
This was not entirely true for Russia after the Cold War, but the fear had disappeared (reflected in the low defense budget).
Putin apparently stuck in that history. And he was probably never able to accept the collapse of the Soviet Union. Actually a pathetic man if he wasn't so dangerous.
All dictators have identical pattern of their end of life.
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The alternative reality of Russian state media:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60571737 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60571737)
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Why was the other thread deleted, couldn't the repeated argument posts just be removed? Sucks that everyone else's posts end up in the bin too.
Having read back through that shabby, now locked, thread, I don't think it contains any important information about Ukraine, just about the inhabitants of this forum.
With one exception: your comments about what you believe Russia's intentions are with regard to splitting the Ukraine. I quote a section here but why don't you make a new post in this thread copying the whole text of your posts. It's very interesting:
From Justanotherphotographer:
'I've a got an awful sinking feeling that what Russia has been after is everything East of the Dnieper (not the whole of Ukraine)'
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Honestly not worth it, it was only a passing thoughts on my part. I just thought it was a shame the thread that was actually in "off topic" got taken down because of an argument between a couple of people (some of whom may have been justified, not taking sides here).
Some people have a tendency to go off on political/ ideological/ conspiracy theory rants at every opportunity. I don’t think it would be right for threads to be disappearing because of their tendency to derail them. In that situation Leaf would normally clean up the thread by deleting those posts and stating want has been done.
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In that situation Leaf would normally clean up the thread by deleting those posts and stating want has been done.
In all my 9 years on this forum, I don't recall a time when Leaf has pulled an entire thread down just because a couple of participants got into a disagreement. So this case was odd.
I suspect somebody other than Leaf decided to get rid of the thread, for whatever reason.
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In all my 9 years on this forum, I don't recall a time when Leaf has pulled an entire thread down just because a couple of participants got into a disagreement. So this case was odd.
I suspect somebody other than Leaf decided to get rid of the thread, for whatever reason.
I attached the content of the Garbage Bin including its more recent than 9 years, Covid conspiracies locked thread, where participants also crossed the common sense and decency lines. The admins didn't get rid of it. It's still accessible.
A locked thread (see that icon) full of childish spamming replies rightfully belongs there too.
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In that situation Leaf would normally clean up the thread by deleting those posts and stating want has been done.
In all my 9 years on this forum, I don't recall a time when Leaf has pulled an entire thread down just because a couple of participants got into a disagreement. So this case was odd.
I suspect somebody other than Leaf decided to get rid of the thread, for whatever reason.
I've answered this before and I'll answer you and Debbie one more time.
There's only one person who has the power to LOCK a thread and that's Leaf. Once locked there are a number of us who could have moved it to garbage, anonymously, but ZT didn't hide like some others have in the past, when that other person moved the holiday thread or the virus thread, because things weren't going their way.
ZT could have moved the thread and no one except Leaf would know who did that.
Zero didn't hide and took responsibility for what he decided.
There's only one person who has the power to LOCK a thread and that's Leaf.
I believe Zero Talent deleted it himself as it says 'Author: Zero Talent, last post: Zero Talent'.
I am the author and as far as I remember Martha was the last person to post.
No one except the author can edit their own posts, except LEAF. :)
Unlike SS forum where someone can become childish and delete their own thread, which then deleted all the posts in that thread. (and then people would accuse SS of censorship ::) ) That doesn't happen here. And maybe it's good that someone can't be poison or spoiled and delete all their posts to erase what they wrote, without going one by one and replacing the text with a period.
That's kind of futile and a waste of time, because if you are quoted, the quote remains. People who try to erase their posts and play revisionist, or pretend they didn't write something, are quoted in full and that never goes away.
You can however change your name and create a new anonymous account?
Leaf has removed entire threads a number of times. It's easier than taking the time to go through and pick out, post by post, which he did do sometimes. Also he's very liberal and allows a loose leash and free speech with opinions. Very little censorship. But when it comes to personal attacks, you can expect to be moderated.
ps On Topic: No I don't think the war will hurt my sales. I seldom sell anything to any of the affected countries.
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A locked thread (see that icon) full of childish spamming replies rightfully belongs there too.
Don't start that again, Zero.
Because if you go back to belittling and mocking me as you have over the last week, I will hit you back just as mean and nasty.
And I don't think our friends here want any more of that.
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Ok, so somebody can move this one to the garbage can as well because they are starting again.
Martha and Zero, maybe you can start a new topic (off topic) and go insult eachother there. Just the two of you, nice and cosy?
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There's only one person who has the power to LOCK a thread and that's Leaf.
Well, yeah, Pete, I actually do know that. You and I don't have the ability to LOCK a thread.
And I was telling the truth when I wrote:
"I don't recall a time when Leaf has pulled an entire thread down just because a couple of participants got into a disagreement. So this case was odd."
And I stand by that statement. It was odd.
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Martha and Zero, maybe you can start a new topic (off topic) and go insult eachother there. Just the two of you, nice and cosy?
I'll happily cease and desist when he does.
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A locked thread (see that icon) full of childish spamming replies rightfully belongs there too.
Don't start that again, Zero.
Because if you go back to belittling and mocking me as you have over the last week, I will hit you back just as mean and nasty.
And I don't think our friends here want any more of that.
Martha, I understand you and was affected myself.
You don't have to be constantly belittled as an adult, educated person. This is a very bad, disrespectful, impolite and not goal-directed discussion style, which is why I got out of it.
So if this flares up again, I would suggest a separate thread "Martha vs. Zerotalent". ;)
Whoever feels like venting, join in then. 8)
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'Martha, I understand you and was affected myself.
You don't have to be constantly belittled as an adult, educated person. This is a very bad, disrespectful, impolite and not goal-directed discussion style, which is why I got out of it'.
[/quote]
Very well expressed.
Thank you Ralf.
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Martha and Zero, maybe you can start a new topic (off topic) and go insult eachother there. Just the two of you, nice and cosy?
I'll happily cease and desist when he does.
Or an email to each other. I think that might help. It just got out of hand.
If I am insulted (as I wrote to you when we were called an oldie ..... by someone else) I say something about it once and then ignore that person. It's not worth it to me. He only makes a fool of himself, but not me. I found that person much more annoying than Zero.
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I am not restarting anything, Martha. It very much looks like you are.
That thread was full of childish spamming replies and insults. That's a fact.
I'm happy to see it locked by the admins.
That thread rightfully belongs to the Garbage Bin.
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I found that person much more annoying than Zero.
Thijs, although there are really more important issues.
If I may remind you, you were annoyed with Zero. I wanted to jump to your side and was also annoyed. Debbie was annoyed, Martha too.
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I am not restarting anything, Martha. It very much looks like you are.
That thread was full of childish spamming replies and insults. That's a fact.
I'm happy to see it locked by the admins.
That thread rightfully belongs to the Garbage Bin.
Pretty lame, or maybe rightfully so, that you have moved my topic to the garbage bin I had made it especially for the two of you in the Off topic section. But then at least don't start again with Martha or she with you, right?
Still wondering who Tsar Thijs wanted to remove from this forum forever....
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Ok, so somebody can move this one to the garbage can as well because they are starting again.
Martha and Zero, maybe you can start a new topic (off topic) and go insult eachother there. Just the two of you, nice and cosy?
It's called PM but then not as entertaining to watch, or kind of like watching a car crash or a lumber yard go up in flames? ;)
There's only one person who has the power to LOCK a thread and that's Leaf.
Well, yeah, Pete, I actually do know that. You and I don't have the ability to LOCK a thread.
And I was telling the truth when I wrote:
"I don't recall a time when Leaf has pulled an entire thread down just because a couple of participants got into a disagreement. So this case was odd."
And I stand by that statement. It was odd.
OK I don't remember Martha ever taking a photo of a bird, so it didn't happen? Come on, please? ;D
I lost count at 68 locked threads, I can't say I know the reasons for each one, I didn't want to go read 6 pages of Garbage bin. But since Leaf is the only one who can lock a thread, I'll call that reasonable evidence? If you will accept my offering.
Some are just plain deleted spam, some are threads that went off topic, a few are someone going on a personal attack rampage. I know messages have been deleted in the past when someone outed a pseudonym and announced the persons real name. I know one for sure, just for some simple name calling.
I'm just going to repeat, Leaf is very tolerant and it takes a lot to get a thread locked. Personal attacks is the only reason I've seen that happen. (that doesn't mean there aren't other reasons, just because I didn't see them.)
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I am not restarting anything, Martha. It very much looks like you are.
That thread was full of childish spamming replies and insults. That's a fact.
I'm happy to see it locked by the admins.
That thread rightfully belongs to the Garbage Bin.
Pretty lame, or maybe rightfully so, that you have moved my topic to the garbage bin I had made it especially for the two of you in the Off topic section. But then at least don't start again with Martha or she with you, right?
Still wondering who Tsar Thijs wanted to remove from this forum forever....
There are people who try to solve quarrels and unfortunately also people who try to provoke them. I put you on ignore and want nothing more to do with you.
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Ok, so somebody can move this one to the garbage can as well because they are starting again.
Martha and Zero, maybe you can start a new topic (off topic) and go insult eachother there. Just the two of you, nice and cosy?
It's called PM but then not as entertaining to watch, or kind of like watching a car crash or a lumber yard go up in flames? ;)
There's only one person who has the power to LOCK a thread and that's Leaf.
Well, yeah, Pete, I actually do know that. You and I don't have the ability to LOCK a thread.
And I was telling the truth when I wrote:
"I don't recall a time when Leaf has pulled an entire thread down just because a couple of participants got into a disagreement. So this case was odd."
And I stand by that statement. It was odd.
OK I don't remember Martha ever taking a photo of a bird, so it didn't happen? Come on, please? ;D
I lost count at 68 locked threads, I can't say I know the reasons for each one, I didn't want to go read 6 pages of Garbage bin. But since Leaf is the only one who can lock a thread, I'll call that reasonable evidence? If you will accept my offering.
Some are just plain deleted spam, some are threads that went off topic, a few are someone going on a personal attack rampage. I know messages have been deleted in the past when someone outed a pseudonym and announced the persons real name. I know one for sure, just for some simple name calling.
I'm just going to repeat, Leaf is very tolerant and it takes a lot to get a thread locked. Personal attacks is the only reason I've seen that happen. (that doesn't mean there aren't other reasons, just because I didn't see them.)
Okay, Pete. You've made your point. Case closed.
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I am not restarting anything, Martha. It very much looks like you are.
That thread was full of childish spamming replies and insults. That's a fact.
I'm happy to see it locked by the admins.
That thread rightfully belongs to the Garbage Bin.
Pretty lame, or maybe rightfully so, that you have moved my topic to the garbage bin I had made it especially for the two of you in the Off topic section. But then at least don't start again with Martha or she with you, right?
Still wondering who Tsar Thijs wanted to remove from this forum forever....
There are people who try to solve rusies and unfortunately also people who try to provoke them. I put you on ignore and want nothing more to do with you.
Good decision, Thijs. Join the happy crowd!
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I am not restarting anything, Martha. It very much looks like you are.
That thread was full of childish spamming replies and insults. That's a fact.
I'm happy to see it locked by the admins.
That thread rightfully belongs to the Garbage Bin.
Pretty lame, or maybe rightfully so, that you have moved my topic to the garbage bin I had made it especially for the two of you in the Off topic section. But then at least don't start again with Martha or she with you, right?
Still wondering who Tsar Thijs wanted to remove from this forum forever....
There are people who try to solve quarrels and unfortunately also people who try to provoke them. I put you on ignore and want nothing more to do with you.
Oh boohoo, now I am really sad :(
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I am not restarting anything, Martha. It very much looks like you are.
That thread was full of childish spamming replies and insults. That's a fact.
I'm happy to see it locked by the admins.
That thread rightfully belongs to the Garbage Bin.
Pretty lame, or maybe rightfully so, that you have moved my topic to the garbage bin I had made it especially for the two of you in the Off topic section. But then at least don't start again with Martha or she with you, right?
Still wondering who Tsar Thijs wanted to remove from this forum forever....
There are people who try to solve quarrels and unfortunately also people who try to provoke them. I put you on ignore and want nothing more to do with you.
Oh boohoo, now I am really sad :(
if you like, i can insult you & we can start over....
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I am not restarting anything, Martha. It very much looks like you are.
That thread was full of childish spamming replies and insults. That's a fact.
I'm happy to see it locked by the admins.
That thread rightfully belongs to the Garbage Bin.
Pretty lame, or maybe rightfully so, that you have moved my topic to the garbage bin I had made it especially for the two of you in the Off topic section. But then at least don't start again with Martha or she with you, right?
Still wondering who Tsar Thijs wanted to remove from this forum forever....
There are people who try to solve quarrels and unfortunately also people who try to provoke them. I put you on ignore and want nothing more to do with you.
Oh boohoo, now I am really sad :(
if you like, i can insult you & we can start over....
LOL! Too funny 8)
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Thijs has departed this forum, I see. What a shame. He was much too nice for this group, I think.
I've decided to follow Thijs out the door. No more interest here for me either.
So… bye, ya'll. It's been a hoot!
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Thijs has departed this forum, I see. What a shame. He was much too nice for this group, I think.
I've decided to follow Thijs out the door. No more interest here for me either.
So… bye, ya'll. It's been a hoot!
Take your sexist attacks with you.
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Hmm... On February 24th, I wrote this:
You will be able to quote me when Putin will occupy Moldova.
Moldova is guilty of the same mistake as Ukraine: they ousted Putin's puppet and elected a pro-EU president.*
* Note. She is one of the very few elected female head of state in the world, Maia Sandu: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maia_Sandu (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maia_Sandu)
When that will happen you will not have the luxury to say that I was right only in "hindsight".
There is still time to prevent the "next step", the seizure of the next "Salami Slice". One of the ways is by moving NATO troops there, now (with all the necessary legalities in place, of course).
And yesterday this photo popped up:
(https://thehill.com/sites/default/files/article_images/lukashenkoalexander_030222_belarusianstateradio.jpeg)
It shows Putin's Belarussian puppet, Lukashenko, revealing Putin's clear plans to target Moldova, once Odessa is occupied.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMx6g8hWUAQ3o74?format=jpg&name=small)
:(
Does anyone still think that Putin will stop once Ukraine is occupied?
Does anyone still hope that: "...we can only hope that this is Putin's last move."? ::)
Listen to Kasparov!
https://www.microstockgroup.com/off-topic/message-to-all-russians-in-these-forums/msg574044/#msg574044 (https://www.microstockgroup.com/off-topic/message-to-all-russians-in-these-forums/msg574044/#msg574044)
Edit: Speaking about Kasparov's "appeasers", I just read that Macron had another useless 90 minutes chat with the dictator.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FM7P7s1WUAcD4C4?format=jpg&name=small)
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Does anyone still think that Putin will stop once Ukraine is occupied?
I think he will stop when all eastern of the Dnjepr is in their hands and that will be it, so not all of Ukraine. I also really don't think he will pursue any further into other countries. It's costing to much effort to get this thing done so it would be really surprising if he would move further.
With the eastern part in his possesion the Krim will be connected to the North and I think that's the only goal here. The western part is not that that interesting. To much hassle to occupy for a long time with inhabitants that really hate Russia. The eastern part this problem is a lot less.
So, yes I do think it will stop there. The photo of the map doesn't tell anything in my view. The arrows can mean a lot of things. It's not necessarily an invasion plan.
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Does anyone still think that Putin will stop once Ukraine is occupied?
I think he will stop when all eastern of the Dnjepr is in their hands and that will be it, so not all of Ukraine. I also really don't think he will pursue any further into other countries. It's costing to much effort to get this thing done so it would be really surprising if he would move further.
With the eastern part in his possesion the Krim will be connected to the North and I think that's the only goal here. The western part is not that that interesting. To much hassle to occupy for a long time with inhabitants that really hate Russia. The eastern part this problem is a lot less.
So, yes I do think it will stop there. The photo of the map doesn't tell anything in my view. The arrows can mean a lot of things. It's not necessarily an invasion plan.
So you think that the plans revealed by Lukashenko on that map, in front of his cabinet and military are not real?
And those arrows are not war plans? Then what? Weather forecast? Common, man!
We will talk about this, again, once Moldova will be attacked.
His goal is at best to transform Ukraine into a landlocked country, by creating a land bridge between Russia, Crimea, and Transnistria, thus cutting the access and taking over its gas and oil reserves in the Black Sea.
But he is clearly aiming at much more than this.
If you got time, watch this informative analysis: https://youtu.be/If61baWF4GE
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Does anyone still think that Putin will stop once Ukraine is occupied?
Nope and I didn't think that from the start. Did someone actually say this is his last move? Talk about learning from history or past actions?
My only difference is, I don't see this as Putin, but instead as reflecting the powers and politics of the ruling class in Russia. He's just the figurehead and voice for that bunch.
I don't see this as being the voice of the people of Russia either.
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So you think that the plans revealed by Lukashenko on that map, in front of his cabinet and military are not real?
And those arrows are not war plans? Then what? Weather forecast? Common, man!
We will talk about this, again, once Moldova will be attacked.
What is the strategic advantage of occupying Moldavia? I really don't see it. I will surely appologise to you if they do invade but I just don't see it happening. There is no reason for it from whichever point of view you look at it. Unless offcourse, he wants to march on through Rome :)
But if you think they will occupy the whole of Ukraine why not invade in places west of the Dnjepr?
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So you think that the plans revealed by Lukashenko on that map, in front of his cabinet and military are not real?
And those arrows are not war plans? Then what? Weather forecast? Common, man!
We will talk about this, again, once Moldova will be attacked.
What is the strategic advantage of occupying Moldavia? I really don't see it. I will surely appologise to you if they do invade but I just don't see it happening. There is no reason for it from whichever point of view you look at it. Unless offcourse, he wants to march on through Rome :)
But if you think the will occupy the whole of Ukraine why not invade in places west of the Dnjepr?
Fyi, he is already occupying the east of Moldova, a tiny strip of land called Transnistria, or a "country" that's only recognized by Russia, where Putin has stationed his 14th army.
Note that Lukashenko's arrow is inwards, towards Moldova, not outwards towards Ukraine.
This is absolutely no different than the "countries" of Luhansk and Donetsk, used as the launching pad and the excuse for invading Ukraine.
History WILL repeat itself... again.
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This is absolutely no different than the "countries" of Luhansk and Donetsk, used as the launching pad and the excuse for invading Ukraine.
History WILL repeat itself... again.
We'll see. I will keep in mind you said it.
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This is absolutely no different than the "countries" of Luhansk and Donetsk, used as the launching pad and the excuse for invading Ukraine.
History WILL repeat itself... again.
We'll see. I will keep in mind you said it.
Sure, but it will be too late, and useless to be right.
Anyway, watch that analysis and you will understand why he has compeling reasons to push beyond Dnieper, to capture Odessa, and more
Edit: Since I already mentioned Kasparov a couple of times, this is a week old, but still very relevant: https://www.pbs.org/video/what-is-putins-end-game-garry-kasparov-on-russias-attack-4v0/ (https://www.pbs.org/video/what-is-putins-end-game-garry-kasparov-on-russias-attack-4v0/)
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Thijs has departed this forum, I see. What a shame. He was much too nice for this group, I think.
I've decided to follow Thijs out the door. No more interest here for me either.
So… bye, ya'll. It's been a hoot!
i hope both you & Thijs will reconsider - both of you have been vital participants. i know it's difficult, but in programming we have the concept of egoless-programming - not taking any criticism of code/views as personal attacks. however, some comments are ad feminam & deserve condemnation, but once condemned, shunned
-
This is absolutely no different than the "countries" of Luhansk and Donetsk, used as the launching pad and the excuse for invading Ukraine.
History WILL repeat itself... again.
We'll see. I will keep in mind you said it.
Sure, but it will be too late, and useless to be right.
Anyway, watch that analysis and you will understand why he has compeling reasons to push beyond Dnieper, to capture Odessa, and more
Edit: Since I already mentioned Kasparov a couple of times, this is a week old, but still very relevant: https://www.pbs.org/video/what-is-putins-end-game-garry-kasparov-on-russias-attack-4v0/ (https://www.pbs.org/video/what-is-putins-end-game-garry-kasparov-on-russias-attack-4v0/)
Transcript Version. I'm not a fan of video for details and information. That is if anyone wants to read it.
https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/what-is-putins-end-game-garry-kasparov-on-russias-attack-4v0/ (https://www.pbs.org/wnet/amanpour-and-company/video/what-is-putins-end-game-garry-kasparov-on-russias-attack-4v0/)
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Kasparov does say a lot of uh's, doesn't he :)
But he was an opponent of Putin and lost. I don't hear a lot of arguments but a lot of accusations and a lot of comparison with Hitler, while in the meantime one faction (Svoboda) in the current Ukrananian government is outright nazi.
https://images.theconversation.com/files/43319/original/4w2x447j-1394124438.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1200&h=900.0&fit=crop
https://theconversation.com/far-right-party-jeopardises-ukraines-path-to-democracy-23999
The interview therefore seems like asking Biden what he thinks of Trump or asking Popey what he thinks of Brutus. It's a propaganda piece but then from the other site. I cannot take it really serious as an argument in this matter.
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Kasparov does say a lot of uh's, doesn't he :)
But he was an opponent of Putin and lost.
Maybe you don't realize, but having the guts to compete against Putin, in Russia, is far from being the same as running for office in a democratic country!
Of course, he lost! How can you even imagine that he ever stood a chance against a dictator?
His candidacy was a symbolic act of courage! He was too famous to end up poisoned or jailed, like other Putin critics.
Besides, he is not a native English speaker, so cut him some slack with the "uhs".
Thanks for the transcript, Pete, but I prefer the video because he sounds natural and he conveys the message better, than through a dry transcript.
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The only hate comes from Russia that just keeps executing violence and bullying to many regions that were part of the USSR. Russia has no idea what the word democracy means. It is a danger for the world and it will be deactivated sooner or later. Have no doubt. Maybe not in an exterior action but from within, but I don't see a bright future for Russia. It is a hurt beast now and that makes him dangerous . So yes NATO and Europe will have to be careful but the target is already been decided. Putin has dark days ahead.
As we all know, NATO gone too far with its expansion towards Russia. And Russia is not Japan, Serbia, Libya, Iraq or Vietnam. There is no problem, all ex Soviet Union countries are now independent. There is hate from the West, it has always been.
Next conflict will be in Taiwan.
Oh, what about recent bombing of Syria. Yep, Israel did it again. But there is no media coverage.
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Kasparov does say a lot of uh's, doesn't he :)
But he was an opponent of Putin and lost.
Maybe you don't realize, but having the guts to compete against Putin, in Russia, is far from being the same as running for office in a democratic country!
Of course, he lost! How can you even imagine that he ever stood a chance against a dictator?
His candidacy was a symbolic act of courage! He was too famous to end up poisoned or jailed, like other Putin critics.
Besides, he is not a native English speaker, so cut him some slack with the "uhs".
Thanks for the transcript, Pete, but I prefer the video because he sounds natural and he conveys the message better, than through a dry transcript.
Children can't write and soon they won't be able to read, everything will be sound bites and video. 16 minutes video took me 5 minutes to read.
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Thijs has departed this forum, I see. What a shame. He was much too nice for this group, I think.
I've decided to follow Thijs out the door. No more interest here for me either.
So… bye, ya'll. It's been a hoot!
i hope both you & Thijs will reconsider - both of you have been vital participants. i know it's difficult, but in programming we have the concept of egoless-programming - not taking any criticism of code/views as personal attacks. however, some comments are ad feminam & deserve condemnation, but once condemned, shunned
This sucks so bad. We are haemorrhaging some of the best members of this forum. If you are still reading so sorry to see you go Martha, though I completely understand. Honestly considering the same thing myself.
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I am also sorry to see Thijs gone.
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This is absolutely no different than the "countries" of Luhansk and Donetsk, used as the launching pad and the excuse for invading Ukraine.
History WILL repeat itself... again.
We'll see. I will keep in mind you said it.
Sure, but it will be too late, and useless to be right.
Anyway, watch that analysis and you will understand why he has compeling reasons to push beyond Dnieper, to capture Odessa, and more
Edit: Since I already mentioned Kasparov a couple of times, this is a week old, but still very relevant: https://www.pbs.org/video/what-is-putins-end-game-garry-kasparov-on-russias-attack-4v0/ (https://www.pbs.org/video/what-is-putins-end-game-garry-kasparov-on-russias-attack-4v0/)
Your obsession with Kasparov is quite obvious. Can you tell us one more time about this guy... Kasparov you said?
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The only hate comes from Russia that just keeps executing violence and bullying to many regions that were part of the USSR. Russia has no idea what the word democracy means. It is a danger for the world and it will be deactivated sooner or later. Have no doubt. Maybe not in an exterior action but from within, but I don't see a bright future for Russia. It is a hurt beast now and that makes him dangerous . So yes NATO and Europe will have to be careful but the target is already been decided. Putin has dark days ahead.
As we all know, NATO gone too far with its expansion towards Russia. And Russia is not Japan, Serbia, Libya, Iraq or Vietnam. There is no problem, all ex Soviet Union countries are now independent. There is hate from the West, it has always been.
Next conflict will be in Taiwan.
Oh, what about recent bombing of Syria. Yep, Israel did it again. But there is no media coverage.
The only hate comes from the West that just keeps executing violence and bullying to many regions in the world. You are so funny. Since you know the future, can you tell me Jackpot numbers? Russia knew what it was doing even before it went to war. However, it can be arranged as follows: the USA sets up bases in Ukraine, and Russia in Cuba and Mexico. Not a bad idea, right?
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Thijs has departed this forum, I see. What a shame. He was much too nice for this group, I think.
I've decided to follow Thijs out the door. No more interest here for me either.
So… bye, ya'll. It's been a hoot!
i hope both you & Thijs will reconsider - both of you have been vital participants. i know it's difficult, but in programming we have the concept of egoless-programming - not taking any criticism of code/views as personal attacks. however, some comments are ad feminam & deserve condemnation, but once condemned, shunned
This sucks so bad. We are haemorrhaging some of the best members of this forum. If you are still reading so sorry to see you go Martha, though I completely understand. Honestly considering the same thing myself.
Martha is gone - PM doesnt find her.
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Your obsession with Kasparov is quite obvious. Can you tell us one more time about this guy... Kasparov you said?
Yes, Kasparov.
Or a true patriot with an intelligence level way above the average of those Putin's lackeys (check your mirror) who are swallowing, unchewed his blatant lies and disgusting propaganda!
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A question for whoever is in charge of the forum - Why are you allowing Russian trolls spreading putin propaganda and refering to past conflicts that no only nothing to do with stock photography but is insulting to forum users.
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A question for whoever is in charge of the forum - Why are you allowing Russian trolls spreading putin propaganda and refering to past conflicts that no only nothing to do with stock photography but is insulting to forum users.
And why would you want a forum that is against the freedom of speech? Because one of the core principles of a democratic world is build on freedom of speech which in its definition includes ideas that some find extremely offensive. If you don't like that you can always try to join some North Korean forum or some of that kind.
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A question for whoever is in charge of the forum - Why are you allowing Russian trolls spreading putin propaganda and refering to past conflicts that no only nothing to do with stock photography but is insulting to forum users.
And why would you want a forum that is against the freedom of speech? Because one of the core principles of a democratic world is build on freedom of speech which in its definition includes ideas that some find extremely offensive. If you don't like that you can always try to join some North Korean forum or some of that kind.
The freedom of speech is not applicable in this case.
This forum is like all private media. Its freedom, like the freedom of the press, means that the owner can decide what can be published or not.
It's part of his "property rights".
If the admin decides that certain voices are impacting his property (e.g. by repealing advertisers or users) he has the freedom to deny someone's "freedom to speak" and protect his property, like he recently did with Aks1.
Governments of democratic countries do not have this right.
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A question for whoever is in charge of the forum - Why are you allowing Russian trolls spreading putin propaganda and refering to past conflicts that no only nothing to do with stock photography but is insulting to forum users.
And why would you want a forum that is against the freedom of speech? Because one of the core principles of a democratic world is build on freedom of speech which in its definition includes ideas that some find extremely offensive. If you don't like that you can always try to join some North Korean forum or some of that kind.
The freedom of speech is not applicable in this case.
This forum is like all private media. Its freedom, like the freedom of the press, means that the owner can decide what to publish or not.
It's part of his "property rights".
If the admin decides that certain voices are impacting his property (e.g. by repealing advertisers or users) he has the freedom to deny someone's "freedom to speak" and protect his property.
Governments of democratic countries do not have this right.
In that case the owner is being called out to pull an action and to forbid the freedom of speech in his own property then right ?
And pressing the media what to publish what not is...now you tell me ? ;)
I believe he can make his own decisions and the ban he gave was because of vulgar speech not because of the point of view as I recall.
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In that case the owner is being called out to pull an action and to forbid the freedom of speech in his own property then right ?
And pressing the media what to publish what not is...now you tell me ? ;)
I believe he can make his own decisions and the ban he gave was because of vulgar speech not because of the point of view as I recall.
The owner considered that vulgar speech is impacting his property.
He denied Aks1 the "freedom of speech" he never had.
The owner has the freedom to ban for any reason who he considers harmful to his property, and deny one's "freedom of speech". That may include banning Russian trolls.
Asking the owner to take action and protect his property from what is perceived as harmful is perfectly legit.
That's why you have a button called "Report to moderator" on your bottom right. ;)
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Well, they are also trolls with agenda to pull whole Europe to a war against a mad man that would mean the end of it and no one is forcing a ban on them. As harmful as it gets for almost billion lives.
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Well, they are also trolls with agenda to pull whole Europe to a war against a mad man that would mean the end of it and no one is forcing a ban on them. As harmful as it gets for almost billion lives.
Nice spin!
So... I guess it means that we did solve your "freedom of speech" dilemma, didn't we? ;D
#whataboutism
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"74% of Americans - including solid majorities of Republicans and Democrats - said the United States and its allies in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization should impose a no-fly zone in Ukraine, the poll found."
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-americans-broadly-support-ukraine-no-fly-zone-russia-oil-ban-poll-2022-03-04/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-americans-broadly-support-ukraine-no-fly-zone-russia-oil-ban-poll-2022-03-04/)
(something that should have been done a month ago, instead of those moronic, ridiculous and useless "long table" negotiation, that only showed weakness, and emboldened Putin)
This will NOT start any WWIII, but only call Putin's bluff. HE is the one that will never dare to fight against the rest of the world and he will back off.
I like this a lot:
"62% of respondents in the Reuters/Ipsos poll said paying more for fuel and gas because of the crisis was worthwhile to defend another democratic country."
... and this:
74% of Americans said their country should take Ukrainian refugees.
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"74% of Americans - including solid majorities of Republicans and Democrats - said the United States and its allies in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization should impose a no-fly zone in Ukraine, the poll found."
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-americans-broadly-support-ukraine-no-fly-zone-russia-oil-ban-poll-2022-03-04/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-americans-broadly-support-ukraine-no-fly-zone-russia-oil-ban-poll-2022-03-04/)
(something that should have been done a month ago, instead of those moronic, ridiculous and useless "long table" negotiation, that only showed weakness, and emboldened Putin)
This will NOT start any WWIII, but only call Putin's bluff. HE is the one that will never dare to fight against the rest of the world and he will back off.
I like this a lot:
"62% of respondents in the Reuters/Ipsos poll said paying more for fuel and gas because of the crisis was worthwhile to defend another democratic country."
... and this:
74% of Americans said their country should take Ukrainian refugees.
And we should probably take advice's from a country that messed in billion occasions, lied to the word to invade countries against UN will and after their failure left them 500 years in past on their own in 10 times worse situation than their were leaving Europe to deal with the refugees.
Putin is all but bluffing and in the moment he would go down he would press the button as Hitler would from his bunker if he could.
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74% of Americans said their country should take Ukrainian refugees.
What prevented those Americans in 2020 to accept only 8700 Syrian refugees which places them on 21. spot right behind tiny Cyprus with population of only 1.2M which took 9800 Syrian refugees ? In the meanwhile Turkey accepted 3.6 million of them just in 2020.
Please...don't start this ;)
https://www.statista.com/statistics/740233/major-syrian-refugee-hosting-countries-worldwide/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/740233/major-syrian-refugee-hosting-countries-worldwide/)
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And we should probably take advice's from a country that messed in billion occasions, lied to the word to invade countries against UN will and after their failure left them 500 years in past on their own in 10 times worse situation than their were leaving Europe to deal with the refugees.
Putin is all but bluffing and in the moment he would go down he would press the button as Hitler would from his bunker if he could.
There is no doubt, you are the master of whataboutism.
I presented you how a strong majority of Americans is thinking today, including myself.
It's surprising to see such a strong majority in a country so divided.
It's also surprising to see that a majority is willing to pay more for gas, especially after the GoP used gas prices to attack Biden.
Moreover it's also surprising to see the willingness to accept refugees, a breath of fresh air after those 4 years of Trumpism.
It's important that this unexpected significant majority is putting pressure on Biden to do more. Let's see how much more he is willing to do.
Hopefully we will find a way to stop Putin before he will send Ukraine 500 years back in time.
Otherwise, you can take advice from whomever you want. For the time being, I see that you are taking exactly the advice Putin gave you.
Congrats!
Fyi:
"Whataboutism or whataboutery (as in "what about…?") is a variant of the "tu quoque" logical fallacy, which attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving the argument."
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A question for whoever is in charge of the forum - Why are you allowing Russian trolls spreading putin propaganda and refering to past conflicts that no only nothing to do with stock photography but is insulting to forum users.
And why would you want a forum that is against the freedom of speech? Because one of the core principles of a democratic world is build on freedom of speech which in its definition includes ideas that some find extremely offensive. If you don't like that you can always try to join some North Korean forum or some of that kind.
Because this is NOT a forum about war or politics. Some forums even ban posts on these subjects. North Korea? you must be joking with that evil fat b'' in charge.
Democracy is decided by the majority and I bet most people on this forum do not want to talk about war. We've already lost members of this forum thanks to the pointless crap spouted about war past & present.
IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT you know what you can do!
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Your obsession with Kasparov is quite obvious. Can you tell us one more time about this guy... Kasparov you said?
Yes, Kasparov.
Or a true patriot with an intelligence level way above the average of those Putin's lackeys (check your mirror) who are swallowing, unchewed his blatant lies and disgusting propaganda!
So, his intelligence level gives him the holy truth of prerogative? All I can see is some troll that is causing harm to this forum. You lie all the time and you are searching for fight. You are also childish and you make me sick! Also, your IQ is not the brightest, right? ;)
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74% of Americans said their country should take Ukrainian refugees.
What prevented those Americans in 2020 to accept only 8700 Syrian refugees which places them on 21. spot right behind tiny Cyprus with population of only 1.2M which took 9800 Syrian refugees ? In the meanwhile Turkey accepted 3.6 million of them just in 2020.
Please...don't start this ;)
https://www.statista.com/statistics/740233/major-syrian-refugee-hosting-countries-worldwide/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/740233/major-syrian-refugee-hosting-countries-worldwide/)
He is ignorant and has zero talent to think.
I suggest admin to close any thread about the war because those null talents trolls will make this forum bad.
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Your obsession with Kasparov is quite obvious. Can you tell us one more time about this guy... Kasparov you said?
Yes, Kasparov.
Or a true patriot with an intelligence level way above the average of those Putin's lackeys (check your mirror) who are swallowing, unchewed his blatant lies and disgusting propaganda!
So, his intelligence level gives him the holy truth of prerogative? All I can see is some troll that is causing harm to this forum. You lie all the time and you are searching for fight. You are also childish and you make me sick! Also, your IQ is not the brightest, right? ;)
That's very precious coming from someone proven unable to discern facts from propaganda.
Remeber that "Bernie Gores" hoax you took for real? You should, because it was yesterday.
That was hilarious, if not tragic.
When you fall so easily for something so basic, it's no surprise that you also took for real Putin's brainwashing campaign, too many of you were subject to, sadly.
#russiantroll
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There is no doubt, you are the master of whataboutism.
But you still didn't answer my question. What prevented US to accept no more then 8700 Syrian refugees in 2020. ?
In % its about 0.17% of the ones that Europe did.
You are seriously convincing us that a country that build walls to stop the refugees would be ready to accept them this time.
Now with your whataboutisms, I'm wondering if you seriously believe that or you are just trolling ?
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Because this is NOT a forum about war or politics. Some forums even ban posts on these subjects. North Korea? you must be joking with that evil fat b'' in charge.
Democracy is decided by the majority and I bet most people on this forum do not want to talk about war. We've already lost members of this forum thanks to the pointless crap spouted about war past & present.
IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT you know what you can do!
So there was a pool or something I missed?
Judging by the number of pages comparing to other topics, It seems to me you would lose that bet.
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Because this is NOT a forum about war or politics. Some forums even ban posts on these subjects. North Korea? you must be joking with that evil fat b'' in charge.
Democracy is decided by the majority and I bet most people on this forum do not want to talk about war. We've already lost members of this forum thanks to the pointless crap spouted about war past & present.
IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT you know what you can do!
So there was a pool or something I missed?
Judging by the number of pages comparing to other topics, It seems to me you would lose that bet.
Yes a "pool". :)
https://www.microstockgroup.com/members-only-discussion/opinion-poll-about-image-topics-or-off-topic/ (https://www.microstockgroup.com/members-only-discussion/opinion-poll-about-image-topics-or-off-topic/)
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Your obsession with Kasparov is quite obvious. Can you tell us one more time about this guy... Kasparov you said?
Yes, Kasparov.
Or a true patriot with an intelligence level way above the average of those Putin's lackeys (check your mirror) who are swallowing, unchewed his blatant lies and disgusting propaganda!
So, his intelligence level gives him the holy truth of prerogative? All I can see is some troll that is causing harm to this forum. You lie all the time and you are searching for fight. You are also childish and you make me sick! Also, your IQ is not the brightest, right? ;)
That's very precious coming from someone proven unable to discern facts from propaganda.
Remeber that "Bernie Gores" hoax you took for real? You should, because it was yesterday.
That was hilarious, if not tragic.
When you fall so easily for something so basic, it's no surprise that you also took for real Putin's brainwashing campaign, too many of you were subject to, sadly.
#russiantroll
Troll, you compare my only mistake with a tons of lies from the US? Come on, it's pathetic. ;) It's quite funny though, I really don't like Russian. I regularly watch videos on YT "Stopham" and I found Russians as wild dogs. So my judgement is clear. Yours not. You are childish enough and you became a clown of this forum.
Here. Enjoy watching, you can skip till 24 minute: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZVIaXFN2lU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZVIaXFN2lU)
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There is no doubt, you are the master of whataboutism.
But you still didn't answer my question. What prevented US to accept no more then 8700 Syrian refugees in 2020. ?
In % its about 0.17% of the ones that Europe did.
You are seriously convincing us that a country that build walls to stop the refugees would be ready to accept them this time.
Now with your whataboutisms, I'm wondering if you seriously believe that or you are just trolling ?
"But", "but", "but"...
Ok... let me answer your "whatabout".
The answer is straightforward: Trump.
The same moron who said a few days ago, after the invasion, that Putin was "savvy" and a "genius". A fool who was never representative of an American majority.
I can't be happier to see him defeated fair and square, in a democratic process, he couldn't do anything against, despite countless desperate attempts.
You can't even realize that you are not refuting my argument. You are systematically going back to "what about this" and "what about that".
#whataboutism.
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... you compare my only mistake with a tons of lies from the US?
Nah, that's not just your "only" mistake. It's a representative mistake.
It only shows how gullible and incapable to filter facts from fiction you are.
Mearsheimer is wrong. The whole premise in his expose is wrong.
It's not NATO or "us", the Americans who "expanded" into Eastern Europe.
It was the free will of democractic countries who voted to join an alliance able to guarantee their integrity, because they anticipated potential Russian aggressions, like the one we are witnessing now, in Ukraine. These countries simply learned from history to fear Russian imperialism.
None of this countries wanted to remain under the "Russian influence" anymore. 45 lost years were more than enough.
Besides, even Stalin had his admirers in Western Europe, people fooled by his propaganda, the same way you are fooled today, by another ruthless dictator.
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There is no doubt, you are the master of whataboutism.
But you still didn't answer my question. What prevented US to accept no more then 8700 Syrian refugees in 2020. ?
In % its about 0.17% of the ones that Europe did.
You are seriously convincing us that a country that build walls to stop the refugees would be ready to accept them this time.
Now with your whataboutisms, I'm wondering if you seriously believe that or you are just trolling ?
"But", "but", "but"...
Ok... let me answer your "whatabout".
The answer is straightforward: Trump.
The same moron who said a few days ago, after the invasion, that Putin was "savvy" and a "genius". A fool who was never representative of an American majority.
I can't be happier to see him defeated fair and square, in a democratic process, he couldn't do anything against, despite countless desperate attempts.
You can't even realize that you are not refuting my argument. You are systematically going back to "what about this" and "what about that".
#whataboutism.
Oh, it was Trump.
So its his fault that from 1990 refugee admissions in the U.S were never more than 132 k per year and it was under H.W.Bush while Clinton cut those numbers in half.
During Obama record was 84k in 2016 and it went down to 53k in 2017. That, my friend is a policy not a single president exception and the numbers are backing that up clearly.
Are you for real ? Turkey admitted few times more refugees in a single year than US from 1990. to present and you want to put that on Trumps account.
Which ism is that ? ;)
https://www.statista.com/statistics/200061/number-of-refugees-arriving-in-the-us/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/200061/number-of-refugees-arriving-in-the-us/)
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Because this is NOT a forum about war or politics. Some forums even ban posts on these subjects. North Korea? you must be joking with that evil fat b'' in charge.
Democracy is decided by the majority and I bet most people on this forum do not want to talk about war. We've already lost members of this forum thanks to the pointless crap spouted about war past & present.
IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT you know what you can do!
So there was a pool or something I missed?
Judging by the number of pages comparing to other topics, It seems to me you would lose that bet.
Yes a "pool". :)
https://www.microstockgroup.com/members-only-discussion/opinion-poll-about-image-topics-or-off-topic/ (https://www.microstockgroup.com/members-only-discussion/opinion-poll-about-image-topics-or-off-topic/)
So it was basically 75% of people that wanted off-topic on the forum. ;D
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Thijs has departed this forum, I see. What a shame. He was much too nice for this group, I think.
I've decided to follow Thijs out the door. No more interest here for me either.
So… bye, ya'll. It's been a hoot!
i hope both you & Thijs will reconsider - both of you have been vital participants. i know it's difficult, but in programming we have the concept of egoless-programming - not taking any criticism of code/views as personal attacks. however, some comments are ad feminam & deserve condemnation, but once condemned, shunned
This sucks so bad. We are haemorrhaging some of the best members of this forum. If you are still reading so sorry to see you go Martha, though I completely understand. Honestly considering the same thing myself.
Martha is gone - PM doesnt find her.
It's sad because she was on here for years & must have been a great photographer shooting for N Geographic which I used to read at school.
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... you compare my only mistake with a tons of lies from the US?
Nah, that's not just your "only" mistake. It's a representative mistake.
It only shows how gullible and incapable to filter facts from fiction you are.
The person in your video cannot be more wrong.
The whole premise in his "expose" is wrong.
It's not NATO or "us", the Americans who "expanded" into Eastern Europe.
It was the free will of democractic countries who voted to join an alliance able to guarantee their integrity, because they anticipated potential Russian aggressions, like the one we are witnessing now, in Ukraine. These countries simply learned from history to fear Russian imperialism.
None of this countries wanted to remain under the "Russian influence" anymore. 45 lost years were more than enough.
Besides, even Stalin had his admirers in Western Europe, people fooled by his propaganda, the same way you are fooled today, by another ruthless dictator.
My only mistake against your whole wrong narrative. You didn't listen to that person. John Joseph Mearsheimer has been described as the most influential realist of his generation. But nah you know it all. So, this mister explained everything, especially how America expand NATO to the east.
When we talking about aggression, do we really need to go through this again? Serbia, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Cambodia, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. That is true imperialism. Listen again this "person", this time do it slowly so you could understand, ok?
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My only mistake against your whole wrong narrative. You didn't listen to that person. John Joseph Mearsheimer has been described as the most influential realist of his generation. But nah you know it all. So, this mister explained everything, especially how America expand NATO to the east.
When we talking about aggression, do we really need to go through this again? Serbia, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Cambodia, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. That is true imperialism. Listen again this "person", this time do it slowly so you could understand, ok?
Another "whatabouter" ::)
Yes, Mearsheimer is wrong, because he believes that the "zones of influence" are justified, no matter what the people living in these "zones" decide for themselves.
That's exactly how Putin justified his invasion:
"It doeasn't matter what Ukrainians want, the only thing that matters is what I want".
That's imperialism, no matter how you or Mearsheimer are spinning it. That's what Putin is after in Ukraine. And he has enough "useful idiots" (nothing personal, just an expression ;)) to help him spin the reality.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot
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... you compare my only mistake with a tons of lies from the US?
Nah, that's not just your "only" mistake. It's a representative mistake.
It only shows how gullible and incapable to filter facts from fiction you are.
The person in your video cannot be more wrong.
The whole premise in his "expose" is wrong.
It's not NATO or "us", the Americans who "expanded" into Eastern Europe.
It was the free will of democractic countries who voted to join an alliance able to guarantee their integrity, because they anticipated potential Russian aggressions, like the one we are witnessing now, in Ukraine. These countries simply learned from history to fear Russian imperialism.
None of this countries wanted to remain under the "Russian influence" anymore. 45 lost years were more than enough.
Besides, even Stalin had his admirers in Western Europe, people fooled by his propaganda, the same way you are fooled today, by another ruthless dictator.
My only mistake against your whole wrong narrative. You didn't listen to that person. John Joseph Mearsheimer has been described as the most influential realist of his generation. But nah you know it all. So, this mister explained everything, especially how America expand NATO to the east.
When we talking about aggression, do we really need to go through this again? Serbia, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Cambodia, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. That is true imperialism. Listen again this "person", this time do it slowly so you could understand, ok?
Serbia ~ to stop Serbs murdering Croats and carrying on in genocidal fashion
Libya to help Libyans get rid of a murderous dictator
Syria to get rid of the murderous ISIS gang (while Russia propped up the equally murderous Syrian regime by bombing innocent Syrian civilians)
Afghanistan ~ murderous Al-Qaeda and their murderous allies the Taliban (of course Russia also invaded Afghanistan too in 1979 to 1989 creating the whole sh-it show)
Vietnam to stop yet another murderous regime from forceably imposing their will on the South.
Cambodia ~ big mistake see Vietnam above
Venezuela, Cuba, well the latter two haven't been invaded
You didn't mention Iraq ~ yes yet another murderous dictator who invaded Iran and Kuwait and got kicked
Of course Russia ever the peaceful ~ Georgia, Chechnya, Crimea, Eastern Ukraine, Hungary twice, helping the lunatic Koreans, now threatening Finland too
You aren't too good after drinking Putin's kool aid.
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Which ism is that ? ;)
The same "ism". #whataboutism
You asked about 2020 and the wall, and now you moved to yet another "whatabout". "Whatabout" other years. ::)
Don't you realize that you jumped from Putin's criminal acts to the unrelated number of Syrian refugees in their neighboring country?
The least you could do is to talk about that 1 million+ of Ukrainian refugees fleeing Putin's bombardments.
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Which ism is that ? ;)
The same "ism". #whataboutism
You asked about 2020 and the wall, and now you moved to yet another "whatabout". "Whatabout" other years. ::)
Don't you realize that you jumped from Putin's criminal acts to the unrelated number of Syrian refugees in their neighboring country?
The least you could do is to talk about that 1 million+ of Ukrainian refugees fleeing Putin's bombardments.
Didnt you just blamed Trump for something happening decades before him, and imply that now with Ukraine the policy will somehow change ?
Didn't you write about US ready to accept refugees, so its well connected with the topic.
And what I would like to know most, how is life different from any other life based on nationality and taken by force ?
And after your claims about Putin bluffing he now states that any attempt of any country try to implement no-fly zone is automatically a war declaration. You don't declare war as a bluff.
We are on the edge of nuclear war and would still play a sheriff.
And as I told you, you can volunteer at any moment and go to fight against Putin as many people from Europe are doing at this moment. Whats stopping you ?
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Serbia ~ to stop Serbs murdering Croats and carrying on in genocidal fashion
And that's an average stupidity internet allows.
Croatia defeated Serbia in august 1995, and that took place in June 1999. 4 years after that war was well over. ;D
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Democracy is decided by the majority and I bet most people on this forum do not want to talk about war. We've already lost members of this forum thanks to the pointless crap spouted about war past & present.
IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT you know what you can do!
we have a bill of rights that specifically was approved in order to protect minorities from majorities - eg, at the time of his murder, a majority of american disapproved of Martin Luther King, Jr.
recent departures from the forum were not because of off-topic threads on war, but by continued personal attacks.
IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT you know what you can do!
yes - counter bad speech with more speech
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Didnt you just blamed Trump for something happening decades before him, and imply that now with Ukraine the policy will somehow change ?
Didn't you write about US ready to accept refugees, so its well connected with the topic.
And what I would like to know most, how is life different from any other life based on nationality and taken by force ?
And after your claims about Putin bluffing he now states that any attempt of any country try to implement no-fly zone is automatically a war declaration. You don't declare war as a bluff.
We are on the edge of nuclear war and would still play a sheriff.
And as I told you, you can volunteer at any moment and go to fight against Putin as many people from Europe are doing at this moment. Whats stopping you ?
Yes, I'm happy to see that a majority of Americans are ready to welcome refugees.
That's a breath of fresh air, after a racist islamophobe like Trump won an election using an aggressive anti-refugee and anti-immigration rhetoric.
I even did you a favor by answering your "whataboutist" question:
"What prevented US to accept no more then 8700 Syrian refugees in 2020. ?" => Trump.
Instead of bravely agreeing with me that this is good news, you are desperately trying to make it look bad: "whatabout" this "whatabout" that, "whatabout" everything else...
Otherwise, of course Putin is doubling down. Why is this even a surprise for you? He will continue to do that until someone will have the guts to call him out, or else, as you pointed out, Ukraine will be pushed back in time 500 years.
And yes, I know that you ran out of meaningful arguments, grasping at straws...
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Im running out of arguments. ;D
Your arguments were worn out and out of fashion in the 60s and now your are throwing in back in the game for the 5. time.
US will take like 20k of Ukrainian refuges yearly at most in best scenario, millions will be accepted in Europe like usually and that's about it on that matter.
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US will take like 20k of Ukrainian refuges yearly at most in best scenario, millions will be accepted in Europe like usually and that's about it on that matter.
Maybe, maybe more. That's something to be discussed later.
For now, it's also very likely that those poor Ukranian women and their children may prefer to remain in Poland or Romania, (or somewhere close in Western Europe) instead of traveling 8000 km on the other side of the world, without their men, who are busy fighting the aggressor you picked your so called "arguments" from.
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US will take like 20k of Ukrainian refuges yearly at most in best scenario, millions will be accepted in Europe like usually and that's about it on that matter.
Maybe, maybe more. That's something to be discussed later.
For now, it's also very likely that those poor Ukranian women and their children may prefer to remain in Poland or Romania, (or somewhere close in Western Europe) instead of traveling 8000 km on the other side of the world, without their men, who are busy fighting the aggressor you picked your so called "arguments" from.
And maybe less. And that's to be discuses now while the promises are being made, like the existence of the arms for mass destruction were about to be discussed before an invasion with false accusations was performed. They were a taboo topic before and after and now and at anytime.
And if you think men are not leaving Ukraine you are deeply wrong, I just met 2 in their best age today at the vet when they came to ask how to acquire their dogs papers cause they brought them without. And I don't blame them a single bit. We talk for and hour and they just say they just want to live a safe life far away from insanity. Like every person should. If nobody holds a gun it wont shoot.
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And maybe less. And that's to be discuses now while the promises are being made, like the existence of the arms for mass destruction were about to be discussed before an invasion with false accusations was performed. They were a taboo topic before and after and now and at anytime.
And if you think men are not leaving Ukraine you are deeply wrong, I just met 2 in their best age today at the vet when they came to ask how to acquire their dogs papers cause they brought them without. And I don't blame them a single bit. We talk for and hour and they just say they just want to live a safe life far away from insanity. Like every person should. If nobody holds a gun it wont shoot.
You saw 2 men from Ukraine? Wow!
In contrast to 2015, when four-fifths of adult migrants from Syria and Afghanistan were men, the Ukrainians are almost all women and children. Ukrainian men aged 18-60 are subject to conscription and banned from leaving the country
https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/03/05/a-new-refugee-crisis-has-come-to-europe (https://www.economist.com/europe/2022/03/05/a-new-refugee-crisis-has-come-to-europe)
Maybe your 2 men were part of that "almost". Congrats! Great "argument"! ::)
PS. Do you live under a rock? Your WMD whataboutism is not a taboo at all. There are countless articles, books, debates and even movies about that debacle.
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And yet, you are still fighting your own forum war instead of volunteering and signing up to go to Ukraine. No one can stop you but you still choose to spread the fire among others on how to start ww3 against a nuclear superpower country comparing them to some banana republic in military aspect.
Once again, go and fight, you are more than welcomed to join.
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And yet, you are still fighting your own forum war instead of volunteering and signing up to go to Ukraine. No one can stop you but you still choose to spread the fire among others on how to start ww3 against a nuclear superpower country comparing them to some banana republic in military aspect.
Once again, go and fight, you are more than welcomed to join.
Lol. Grasping at straws, much? ;D
Childish whataboutism! ::)
You have nothing except for what you heard Putin say.
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Perhaps it is time to reflect on the following:
In 1939, Germany launched the attack on Poland, thus triggering the Second World War. Hitler felt invulnerable, thought Germany was infinitely strong. And Poland - for whatever reason - for a country that was a thorn in his side.
We all know how it all turned out from the history books. The way Germany justified this attack on Poland is extremely reminiscent of what Putin is doing now in Ukraine and how he justifies it. It's not only reminiscent - it's almost identical.
Likewise, we all know from the history books how this ended for Germany and Hitler.
It is a pity that quite obviously nothing was learned from the history book and the darkest period of the history of mankind - so far.
And it is foreseeable how also this chapter will end. If all of us on this planet are lucky enough that no one presses the red button - and I think we all hope that this won‘t happen - it is absolutely clear how this "project" will end for Putin in the medium to long term. In a catastrophe. Pride comes before a fall. Hitler learned that and did not survive - Putin will also learn that and ...
And it cannot be suppressed by switching off the information channels. The plurality of information was also suppressed by the *. But they could not suppress the end of the Nazi terror dictatorship.
Putin will eventually annex Ukraine, maybe even more - but he will never create peace and a unified Russian feeling. There has never been such a thing in the history of mankind, and there never will be. There will never be peace in the empire he wants. The bigger it becomes, the more ethnic groups, cultures, religions and customs are included in it, the less peace is possible. This is how it was with the former Ottoman Empire, with the former Yugoslavia, with the former USSR and countless other examples.
If Flemings and Walloons, if Spaniards and Catalans, if Irish and Northern Irish cannot manage to get along with each other without reservations, how does Putin envision Ukraine? A short, big victory from the Russian point of view? Perhaps. A great empire for Tsar Putin? In the medium and long term? Never ever!
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To get to the original question. I haven't had a DL since Feb 26 which was on SS so probably buyers are all watching the news
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My only mistake against your whole wrong narrative. You didn't listen to that person. John Joseph Mearsheimer has been described as the most influential realist of his generation. But nah you know it all. So, this mister explained everything, especially how America expand NATO to the east.
When we talking about aggression, do we really need to go through this again? Serbia, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Cambodia, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. That is true imperialism. Listen again this "person", this time do it slowly so you could understand, ok?
Another "whatabouter" ::)
Yes, Mearsheimer is wrong, because he believes that the "zones of influence" are justified, no matter what the people living in these "zones" decide for themselves.
That's exactly how Putin justified his invasion:
"It doeasn't matter what Ukrainians want, the only thing that matters is what I want".
That's imperialism, no matter how you or Mearsheimer are spinning it. That's what Putin is after in Ukraine. And he has enough "useful idiots" (nothing personal, just an expression ;)) to help him spin the reality.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot
You really feel great in your skin? One of the greatest minds are nothing. Mearsheimer served for five years as an officer in the US Air Force. In 1980 earned a Ph.D. Hes a professor, he writes books. And yet, one pathetic member on this forum think he is better than Mearsheimer.
Mearsheimer is right. You should lower your too high ego, increase intelligence and be ready to learn something.
After the end of the Soviet Union, the newly independent Ukraine had a large arsenal of nuclear weapons on its territory. However, in 1994, Ukraine agreed to give up nuclear arms and become a member of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty; within two years, it had removed all atomic weapons. Almost alone among observers, Mearsheimer was opposed to that decision because he saw that Ukraine without a nuclear deterrent would likely be subjected to aggression by Russia. As early as 1993, he suggested that Ukraine should retain its nuclear weapons as a deterrent.
In September 2014, Mearsheimer wrote the article "Why the Ukraine Crisis Is the West's Fault. The Liberal Delusions That Provoked Putin," which was published in Foreign Affairs. The essay was highly critical of the US policy since the end of the Cold War towards Russia. Mearsheimer argued that Russian intervention in Crimea and Ukraine had been motivated by what he saw as the irresponsible strategic objectives of NATO in Eastern Europe. He compared NATO expansion into Eastern Europe, led by NATO, and the planned inclusion of Ukraine to the hypothetical scenario of a Chinese military alliance in North America: "Imagine the American outrage if China built an impressive military alliance and tried to include Canada and Mexico."
Mearsheimer argued that Russia's annexation of the Crimea had been fueled by concerns that it would lose access to its Black Sea Fleet naval base at Sevastopol if Ukraine continued to move towards NATO and European integration. Mearsheimer concluded that US policy should shift to recognize Ukraine as a buffer state between NATO and Russia, rather than attempt to absorb Ukraine into NATO. Mearsheimer's article provoked Michael McFaul and Stephen Sestanovich to publish their response in the November/December 2014 issue of Foreign Affairs.
Following the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, Mearsheimer stated that from the standpoint of offensive realism he assessed responsibility for the invasion largely with provocative US geopolitics seeking to involve Ukraine to make closer ties with the European Union and the US. As he stated in an interview with The New Yorker, Mearsheimer stated: "I think all the trouble in this case really started in April 2008, at the Nato Summit in Bucharest, where afterward Nato issued a statement that said Ukraine and Georgia would become part of Nato. The Russians made it unequivocally clear at the time that they viewed this as an existential threat, and they drew a line in the sand. Nevertheless, what has happened with the passage of time is that we have moved forward to include Ukraine in the West to make Ukraine a Western bulwark on Russia’s border... Nato expansion is the heart of the strategy, but it includes E.U. expansion as well, and it includes turning Ukraine into a pro-American liberal democracy, and, from a Russian perspective, this is an existential threat."
Spin doctor, can you troll somewhere else? It's pathetic, you know?
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... you compare my only mistake with a tons of lies from the US?
Nah, that's not just your "only" mistake. It's a representative mistake.
It only shows how gullible and incapable to filter facts from fiction you are.
The person in your video cannot be more wrong.
The whole premise in his "expose" is wrong.
It's not NATO or "us", the Americans who "expanded" into Eastern Europe.
It was the free will of democractic countries who voted to join an alliance able to guarantee their integrity, because they anticipated potential Russian aggressions, like the one we are witnessing now, in Ukraine. These countries simply learned from history to fear Russian imperialism.
None of this countries wanted to remain under the "Russian influence" anymore. 45 lost years were more than enough.
Besides, even Stalin had his admirers in Western Europe, people fooled by his propaganda, the same way you are fooled today, by another ruthless dictator.
My only mistake against your whole wrong narrative. You didn't listen to that person. John Joseph Mearsheimer has been described as the most influential realist of his generation. But nah you know it all. So, this mister explained everything, especially how America expand NATO to the east.
When we talking about aggression, do we really need to go through this again? Serbia, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Cambodia, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. That is true imperialism. Listen again this "person", this time do it slowly so you could understand, ok?
Serbia ~ to stop Serbs murdering Croats and carrying on in genocidal fashion
Libya to help Libyans get rid of a murderous dictator
Syria to get rid of the murderous ISIS gang (while Russia propped up the equally murderous Syrian regime by bombing innocent Syrian civilians)
Afghanistan ~ murderous Al-Qaeda and their murderous allies the Taliban (of course Russia also invaded Afghanistan too in 1979 to 1989 creating the whole sh-it show)
Vietnam to stop yet another murderous regime from forceably imposing their will on the South.
Cambodia ~ big mistake see Vietnam above
Venezuela, Cuba, well the latter two haven't been invaded
You didn't mention Iraq ~ yes yet another murderous dictator who invaded Iran and Kuwait and got kicked
Of course Russia ever the peaceful ~ Georgia, Chechnya, Crimea, Eastern Ukraine, Hungary twice, helping the lunatic Koreans, now threatening Finland too
You aren't too good after drinking Putin's kool aid.
Lie #1: Serbia - theres no Croats in Serbia, Croats live in Croatia
Lie #2: Libya: Gaddafi also nationalized Libyan oil sector which used to be run by American. That was a big mistake
Lie #3: Syria: To get ISIS on the throne, luckily Russians intervene
Lie #4: Afghanistan: to defeat Talibans created by America
Lie #5: Vietnam: to defeat communism and to be defeated by Vietnam
Lie #6: Venezuela: sanctions and the oil reserves
Lie #7: Iraq: Oil and to get rid off dictator set by Americans
You are that blind? But I understand, if your IQ is 35 this is all you got.
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Author Topic: Will the Russia/Ukraine war affect sales?
Less than the greed of the businessmen of the countries in peace.
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You really feel great in your skin? One of the greatest minds are nothing. Mearsheimer served for five years as an officer in the US Air Force. In 1980 earned a Ph.D. Hes a professor, he writes books. And yet, one pathetic member on this forum think he is better than Mearsheimer.
Mearsheimer is right. You should lower your too high ego, increase intelligence and be ready to learn something.
After the end of the Soviet Union, the newly independent Ukraine had a large arsenal of nuclear weapons on its territory. However, in 1994, Ukraine agreed to give up nuclear arms and become a member of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty; within two years, it had removed all atomic weapons. Almost alone among observers, Mearsheimer was opposed to that decision because he saw that Ukraine without a nuclear deterrent would likely be subjected to aggression by Russia. As early as 1993, he suggested that Ukraine should retain its nuclear weapons as a deterrent.
In September 2014, Mearsheimer wrote the article "Why the Ukraine Crisis Is the West's Fault. The Liberal Delusions That Provoked Putin," which was published in Foreign Affairs. The essay was highly critical of the US policy since the end of the Cold War towards Russia. Mearsheimer argued that Russian intervention in Crimea and Ukraine had been motivated by what he saw as the irresponsible strategic objectives of NATO in Eastern Europe. He compared NATO expansion into Eastern Europe, led by NATO, and the planned inclusion of Ukraine to the hypothetical scenario of a Chinese military alliance in North America: "Imagine the American outrage if China built an impressive military alliance and tried to include Canada and Mexico."
Mearsheimer argued that Russia's annexation of the Crimea had been fueled by concerns that it would lose access to its Black Sea Fleet naval base at Sevastopol if Ukraine continued to move towards NATO and European integration. Mearsheimer concluded that US policy should shift to recognize Ukraine as a buffer state between NATO and Russia, rather than attempt to absorb Ukraine into NATO. Mearsheimer's article provoked Michael McFaul and Stephen Sestanovich to publish their response in the November/December 2014 issue of Foreign Affairs.
Following the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, Mearsheimer stated that from the standpoint of offensive realism he assessed responsibility for the invasion largely with provocative US geopolitics seeking to involve Ukraine to make closer ties with the European Union and the US. As he stated in an interview with The New Yorker, Mearsheimer stated: "I think all the trouble in this case really started in April 2008, at the Nato Summit in Bucharest, where afterward Nato issued a statement that said Ukraine and Georgia would become part of Nato. The Russians made it unequivocally clear at the time that they viewed this as an existential threat, and they drew a line in the sand. Nevertheless, what has happened with the passage of time is that we have moved forward to include Ukraine in the West to make Ukraine a Western bulwark on Russia’s border... Nato expansion is the heart of the strategy, but it includes E.U. expansion as well, and it includes turning Ukraine into a pro-American liberal democracy, and, from a Russian perspective, this is an existential threat."
Spin doctor, can you troll somewhere else? It's pathetic, you know?
Yes. He is an useful idiot.
There were quite a few "brilliant western minds" in the past, who supported Stalin.
It's perfectly normal in a democracy.
Idiots are everywhere and they have the right to express themselves.
Even Hitler had academics who theorized the aryan supremacy ideology.
Besides, he is adminting that his point of view is supported only by less than a handful of academics. That's because his whole premise is false.
He is also saying that he is feeling at home during his visits in Beijing and Moscow, because these people have a 19th century mentality like him.
No surprise here.
The sad part is that his postion is the position used by Putin (basicaly word by word) to justify the evil he is doing to Ukraine now. That's why he is an useful idiot. And that's why his position is now widely shared by Putin's propaganda trolls.
No, you are not original, you are just another propaganda mouthpiece.
So, give me a break.
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You really feel great in your skin? One of the greatest minds are nothing. Mearsheimer served for five years as an officer in the US Air Force. In 1980 earned a Ph.D. Hes a professor, he writes books. And yet, one pathetic member on this forum think he is better than Mearsheimer.
Mearsheimer is right. You should lower your too high ego, increase intelligence and be ready to learn something.
After the end of the Soviet Union, the newly independent Ukraine had a large arsenal of nuclear weapons on its territory. However, in 1994, Ukraine agreed to give up nuclear arms and become a member of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty; within two years, it had removed all atomic weapons. Almost alone among observers, Mearsheimer was opposed to that decision because he saw that Ukraine without a nuclear deterrent would likely be subjected to aggression by Russia. As early as 1993, he suggested that Ukraine should retain its nuclear weapons as a deterrent.
In September 2014, Mearsheimer wrote the article "Why the Ukraine Crisis Is the West's Fault. The Liberal Delusions That Provoked Putin," which was published in Foreign Affairs. The essay was highly critical of the US policy since the end of the Cold War towards Russia. Mearsheimer argued that Russian intervention in Crimea and Ukraine had been motivated by what he saw as the irresponsible strategic objectives of NATO in Eastern Europe. He compared NATO expansion into Eastern Europe, led by NATO, and the planned inclusion of Ukraine to the hypothetical scenario of a Chinese military alliance in North America: "Imagine the American outrage if China built an impressive military alliance and tried to include Canada and Mexico."
Mearsheimer argued that Russia's annexation of the Crimea had been fueled by concerns that it would lose access to its Black Sea Fleet naval base at Sevastopol if Ukraine continued to move towards NATO and European integration. Mearsheimer concluded that US policy should shift to recognize Ukraine as a buffer state between NATO and Russia, rather than attempt to absorb Ukraine into NATO. Mearsheimer's article provoked Michael McFaul and Stephen Sestanovich to publish their response in the November/December 2014 issue of Foreign Affairs.
Following the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, Mearsheimer stated that from the standpoint of offensive realism he assessed responsibility for the invasion largely with provocative US geopolitics seeking to involve Ukraine to make closer ties with the European Union and the US. As he stated in an interview with The New Yorker, Mearsheimer stated: "I think all the trouble in this case really started in April 2008, at the Nato Summit in Bucharest, where afterward Nato issued a statement that said Ukraine and Georgia would become part of Nato. The Russians made it unequivocally clear at the time that they viewed this as an existential threat, and they drew a line in the sand. Nevertheless, what has happened with the passage of time is that we have moved forward to include Ukraine in the West to make Ukraine a Western bulwark on Russia’s border... Nato expansion is the heart of the strategy, but it includes E.U. expansion as well, and it includes turning Ukraine into a pro-American liberal democracy, and, from a Russian perspective, this is an existential threat."
Spin doctor, can you troll somewhere else? It's pathetic, you know?
Yes. He is an useful idiot.
There were quite a few "brilliant western minds" in the past, who supported Stalin.
It's perfectly normal in a democracy.
Idiots are everywhere and they have the right to express themselves.
Even Hitler had academics who theorized the aryan supremacy ideology.
Besides, he is adminting that his point of view is supported only by less than a handful of academics. That's because his whole premise is false.
He is also saying that he is feeling at home during his visits in Beijing and Moscow, because these people have a 19th century mentality like him.
No surprise here.
The sad part is that his postion is the position used by Putin (basicaly word by word) to justify the evil he is doing to Ukraine now. That's why he is an useful idiot. And that's why his position is now widely shared by Putin's propaganda trolls.
No, you are not original, you are just another propaganda mouthpiece.
So, give me a break.
Half of your brain is missing.
Quote: "Idiots are everywhere and they have the right to express themselves." Well this is you, you described yourself perfectly. You are an idiot. I even can't analyze this stupidity of yours anymore.
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You really feel great in your skin? One of the greatest minds are nothing. Mearsheimer served for five years as an officer in the US Air Force. In 1980 earned a Ph.D. Hes a professor, he writes books. And yet, one pathetic member on this forum think he is better than Mearsheimer.
Mearsheimer is right. You should lower your too high ego, increase intelligence and be ready to learn something.
After the end of the Soviet Union, the newly independent Ukraine had a large arsenal of nuclear weapons on its territory. However, in 1994, Ukraine agreed to give up nuclear arms and become a member of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty; within two years, it had removed all atomic weapons. Almost alone among observers, Mearsheimer was opposed to that decision because he saw that Ukraine without a nuclear deterrent would likely be subjected to aggression by Russia. As early as 1993, he suggested that Ukraine should retain its nuclear weapons as a deterrent.
In September 2014, Mearsheimer wrote the article "Why the Ukraine Crisis Is the West's Fault. The Liberal Delusions That Provoked Putin," which was published in Foreign Affairs. The essay was highly critical of the US policy since the end of the Cold War towards Russia. Mearsheimer argued that Russian intervention in Crimea and Ukraine had been motivated by what he saw as the irresponsible strategic objectives of NATO in Eastern Europe. He compared NATO expansion into Eastern Europe, led by NATO, and the planned inclusion of Ukraine to the hypothetical scenario of a Chinese military alliance in North America: "Imagine the American outrage if China built an impressive military alliance and tried to include Canada and Mexico."
Mearsheimer argued that Russia's annexation of the Crimea had been fueled by concerns that it would lose access to its Black Sea Fleet naval base at Sevastopol if Ukraine continued to move towards NATO and European integration. Mearsheimer concluded that US policy should shift to recognize Ukraine as a buffer state between NATO and Russia, rather than attempt to absorb Ukraine into NATO. Mearsheimer's article provoked Michael McFaul and Stephen Sestanovich to publish their response in the November/December 2014 issue of Foreign Affairs.
Following the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, Mearsheimer stated that from the standpoint of offensive realism he assessed responsibility for the invasion largely with provocative US geopolitics seeking to involve Ukraine to make closer ties with the European Union and the US. As he stated in an interview with The New Yorker, Mearsheimer stated: "I think all the trouble in this case really started in April 2008, at the Nato Summit in Bucharest, where afterward Nato issued a statement that said Ukraine and Georgia would become part of Nato. The Russians made it unequivocally clear at the time that they viewed this as an existential threat, and they drew a line in the sand. Nevertheless, what has happened with the passage of time is that we have moved forward to include Ukraine in the West to make Ukraine a Western bulwark on Russia’s border... Nato expansion is the heart of the strategy, but it includes E.U. expansion as well, and it includes turning Ukraine into a pro-American liberal democracy, and, from a Russian perspective, this is an existential threat."
Spin doctor, can you troll somewhere else? It's pathetic, you know?
Yes. He is an useful idiot.
There were quite a few "brilliant western minds" in the past, who supported Stalin.
It's perfectly normal in a democracy.
Idiots are everywhere and they have the right to express themselves.
Even Hitler had academics who theorized the aryan supremacy ideology.
Besides, he is adminting that his point of view is supported only by less than a handful of academics. That's because his whole premise is false.
He is also saying that he is feeling at home during his visits in Beijing and Moscow, because these people have a 19th century mentality like him.
No surprise here.
The sad part is that his postion is the position used by Putin (basicaly word by word) to justify the evil he is doing to Ukraine now. That's why he is an useful idiot. And that's why his position is now widely shared by Putin's propaganda trolls.
No, you are not original, you are just another propaganda mouthpiece.
So, give me a break.
Half of your brain is missing.
Quote: "Idiots are everywhere and they have the right to express themselves." Well this is you, you described yourself perfectly. You are an idiot. I even can't analyze this stupidity of yours anymore.
EDIT: I'm so sad I cannot see you in person. Really.
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Happy reading: https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/why-john-mearsheimer-blames-the-us-for-the-crisis-in-ukraine (https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/why-john-mearsheimer-blames-the-us-for-the-crisis-in-ukraine)
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Putin already knows he is a politically dead man. A russian Kim Jong-un. You may like it or not. It is what it is . Digging his own grave in front of the whole world.What a mastermind(sic). If at some point people or military turn on him and slap his face he might always ask for asylum in Eritrea.
The only hate comes from the West that just keeps executing violence and bullying to many regions in the world. You are so funny. Since you know the future, can you tell me Jackpot numbers? Russia knew what it was doing even before it went to war. However, it can be arranged as follows: the USA sets up bases in Ukraine, and Russia in Cuba and Mexico. Not a bad idea, right?
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... you compare my only mistake with a tons of lies from the US?
Nah, that's not just your "only" mistake. It's a representative mistake.
It only shows how gullible and incapable to filter facts from fiction you are.
The person in your video cannot be more wrong.
The whole premise in his "expose" is wrong.
It's not NATO or "us", the Americans who "expanded" into Eastern Europe.
It was the free will of democractic countries who voted to join an alliance able to guarantee their integrity, because they anticipated potential Russian aggressions, like the one we are witnessing now, in Ukraine. These countries simply learned from history to fear Russian imperialism.
None of this countries wanted to remain under the "Russian influence" anymore. 45 lost years were more than enough.
Besides, even Stalin had his admirers in Western Europe, people fooled by his propaganda, the same way you are fooled today, by another ruthless dictator.
My only mistake against your whole wrong narrative. You didn't listen to that person. John Joseph Mearsheimer has been described as the most influential realist of his generation. But nah you know it all. So, this mister explained everything, especially how America expand NATO to the east.
When we talking about aggression, do we really need to go through this again? Serbia, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Cambodia, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. That is true imperialism. Listen again this "person", this time do it slowly so you could understand, ok?
Serbia ~ to stop Serbs murdering Croats and carrying on in genocidal fashion
Libya to help Libyans get rid of a murderous dictator
Syria to get rid of the murderous ISIS gang (while Russia propped up the equally murderous Syrian regime by bombing innocent Syrian civilians)
Afghanistan ~ murderous Al-Qaeda and their murderous allies the Taliban (of course Russia also invaded Afghanistan too in 1979 to 1989 creating the whole sh-it show)
Vietnam to stop yet another murderous regime from forceably imposing their will on the South.
Cambodia ~ big mistake see Vietnam above
Venezuela, Cuba, well the latter two haven't been invaded
You didn't mention Iraq ~ yes yet another murderous dictator who invaded Iran and Kuwait and got kicked
Of course Russia ever the peaceful ~ Georgia, Chechnya, Crimea, Eastern Ukraine, Hungary twice, helping the lunatic Koreans, now threatening Finland too
You aren't too good after drinking Putin's kool aid.
Lie #1: Serbia - theres no Croats in Serbia, Croats live in Croatia
Lie #2: Libya: Gaddafi also nationalized Libyan oil sector which used to be run by American. That was a big mistake
Lie #3: Syria: To get ISIS on the throne, luckily Russians intervene
Lie #4: Afghanistan: to defeat Talibans created by America
Lie #5: Vietnam: to defeat communism and to be defeated by Vietnam
Lie #6: Venezuela: sanctions and the oil reserves
Lie #7: Iraq: Oil and to get rid off dictator set by Americans
You are that blind? But I understand, if your IQ is 35 this is all you got.
Love throwing insults around don't you? Everything you just typed above is a lie
Idiot ::)
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No surprise again.
Because that's your last resort, when you run out of instructions and predefined speaking points from Putin's propaganda playbook.
(https://i.postimg.cc/d1wKPMkG/Screenshot-20220306-130146-Chrome.jpg)
You can't sink lower than this, physical violence aside.
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EDIT: I'm so sad I cannot see you in person. Really.
Why?
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Putin already knows he is a politically dead man. A russian Kim Jong-un. You may like it or not. It is what it is . Digging his own grave in front of the whole world.What a mastermind(sic). If at some point people or military turn on him and slap his face he might always ask for asylum in Eritrea.
The only hate comes from the West that just keeps executing violence and bullying to many regions in the world. You are so funny. Since you know the future, can you tell me Jackpot numbers? Russia knew what it was doing even before it went to war. However, it can be arranged as follows: the USA sets up bases in Ukraine, and Russia in Cuba and Mexico. Not a bad idea, right?
LOL, this is so funny. I never thought this forum could be THAT funny. Putin is rising oil price and he is getting rich. He knows what he is doing. But, luckily we have some micro stock submitter, some unknown person with no life, some nasty wanker who is living alone and nobody likes him and he knows what is going to happen with Putin? Come on, tell us some more jokes, would you? ;D
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... you compare my only mistake with a tons of lies from the US?
Nah, that's not just your "only" mistake. It's a representative mistake.
It only shows how gullible and incapable to filter facts from fiction you are.
The person in your video cannot be more wrong.
The whole premise in his "expose" is wrong.
It's not NATO or "us", the Americans who "expanded" into Eastern Europe.
It was the free will of democractic countries who voted to join an alliance able to guarantee their integrity, because they anticipated potential Russian aggressions, like the one we are witnessing now, in Ukraine. These countries simply learned from history to fear Russian imperialism.
None of this countries wanted to remain under the "Russian influence" anymore. 45 lost years were more than enough.
Besides, even Stalin had his admirers in Western Europe, people fooled by his propaganda, the same way you are fooled today, by another ruthless dictator.
My only mistake against your whole wrong narrative. You didn't listen to that person. John Joseph Mearsheimer has been described as the most influential realist of his generation. But nah you know it all. So, this mister explained everything, especially how America expand NATO to the east.
When we talking about aggression, do we really need to go through this again? Serbia, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Cambodia, Venezuela, Cuba, etc. That is true imperialism. Listen again this "person", this time do it slowly so you could understand, ok?
Serbia ~ to stop Serbs murdering Croats and carrying on in genocidal fashion
Libya to help Libyans get rid of a murderous dictator
Syria to get rid of the murderous ISIS gang (while Russia propped up the equally murderous Syrian regime by bombing innocent Syrian civilians)
Afghanistan ~ murderous Al-Qaeda and their murderous allies the Taliban (of course Russia also invaded Afghanistan too in 1979 to 1989 creating the whole sh-it show)
Vietnam to stop yet another murderous regime from forceably imposing their will on the South.
Cambodia ~ big mistake see Vietnam above
Venezuela, Cuba, well the latter two haven't been invaded
You didn't mention Iraq ~ yes yet another murderous dictator who invaded Iran and Kuwait and got kicked
Of course Russia ever the peaceful ~ Georgia, Chechnya, Crimea, Eastern Ukraine, Hungary twice, helping the lunatic Koreans, now threatening Finland too
You aren't too good after drinking Putin's kool aid.
Lie #1: Serbia - theres no Croats in Serbia, Croats live in Croatia
Lie #2: Libya: Gaddafi also nationalized Libyan oil sector which used to be run by American. That was a big mistake
Lie #3: Syria: To get ISIS on the throne, luckily Russians intervene
Lie #4: Afghanistan: to defeat Talibans created by America
Lie #5: Vietnam: to defeat communism and to be defeated by Vietnam
Lie #6: Venezuela: sanctions and the oil reserves
Lie #7: Iraq: Oil and to get rid off dictator set by Americans
You are that blind? But I understand, if your IQ is 35 this is all you got.
Love throwing insults around don't you? Everything you just typed above is a lie
Idiot ::)
Only to lying idiots. You know I debunked your lies. ;)
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No surprise again.
Because that's your last resort, when you run out of instructions and predefined speaking points from Putin's propaganda playbook.
(https://i.postimg.cc/d1wKPMkG/Screenshot-20220306-130146-Chrome.jpg)
You can't sink lower than this, physical violence aside.
You started with the insults so when you talk about last resort you're talking about yourself. Your western propaganda is in your low IQ head. We both know I prove to you: I'm right and you're wrong. It's ok, you'll thank me some day. ;)
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Yeah, yeah, I know. You are right.
You are as right as you were when you fell for that Bernie Gores fake! ;D
That speaks volume about one's capacity to discern reality from propaganda. ::)
Tell us more. What's next?
Because it looks to me that you are falling behind, and forgot to check the most recent instructions from Moscow.
Let me help you catch up: I heard that those Ukrainians n*zis are now secretly building nuclear weapons.
Now, go, go, go! Go get 'em, tiger!
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You sound drowned in bitterness, not to be having a funny time at all. And just wait, this is just the beginning. People like Putin or you just understand one way of action. It's great to know that not all Russians think like you, some speak up their mind every day with great risk to their lives. Today more than 4000 more detained for trying to exercise their free speech. Learn something from them, you really need it. And about your bad mood, 10 hours of sleep will cool off your mind. ;D
LOL, this is so funny. I never thought this forum could be THAT funny. Putin is rising oil price and he is getting rich. He knows what he is doing. But, luckily we have some micro stock submitter, some unknown person with no life, some nasty wanker who is living alone and nobody likes him and he knows what is going to happen with Putin? Come on, tell us some more jokes, would you? ;D
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Yeah, yeah, I know. You are right.
You are as right as you were when you fell for that Bernie Gores fake! ;D
That speaks volume about one's capacity to discern reality from propaganda. ::)
Tell us more. What's next?
Because it looks to me that you are falling behind, and forgot to check the most recent instructions from Moscow.
Let me help you catch up: I heard that those Ukrainians n*zis are now secretly building nuclear weapons.
Now, go, go, go! Go get 'em, tiger!
As I said, one mistake is nothing against an ocean of propaganda. Well honestly I don't know and I don't care. But I heard Russians are beating poor Ukrainians very badly. Sorry for that.
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Putin already knows he is a politically dead man. A russian Kim Jong-un. You may like it or not. It is what it is . Digging his own grave in front of the whole world.What a mastermind(sic). If at some point people or military turn on him and slap his face he might always ask for asylum in Eritrea.
The only hate comes from the West that just keeps executing violence and bullying to many regions in the world. You are so funny. Since you know the future, can you tell me Jackpot numbers? Russia knew what it was doing even before it went to war. However, it can be arranged as follows: the USA sets up bases in Ukraine, and Russia in Cuba and Mexico. Not a bad idea, right?
LOL, this is so funny. I never thought this forum could be THAT funny. Putin is rising oil price and he is getting rich. He knows what he is doing.
Yes, that may be. And perhaps this is precisely the problem.
There is a glaring social injustice all over the world. The richest one percent of all people on this planet own more than the poor half. And this status quo is continuously changing in favor of these extremely rich.
This is the case in the West and it is no different in the East.
Capitalism rules in the West and socialism in the East - if you put it in an exaggeratedly simple way. And these two systems are vying against each other for dominance of the planet.
Meanwhile, I don't really understand the differences anymore. Because in both systems, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.
When I look at the definition of socialism: " "Socialism refers to ideologies that propagate the overcoming of capitalism and the liberation of the working class from poverty and oppression (social question) in favor of a social order oriented to equality, solidarity and emancipation", then your statement degenerates into pure mockery.
Yes, it may be that Putin will become rich, and possibly a few oligarchs and our former Chancellor Gerhard Schröder, but is that a cause for joy for someone from the people, as you presumably are?
What about your freedom of speech, about oppression, if you want to change your mind at some point?
The question is whether Putin is waging war for his people, or rather so that he and his friends can rake in even more billions. And in this war no oligarchs die, there die people from the normal and lower social class. On both sides.
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But I heard Russians are beating poor Ukrainians very badly. Sorry for that.
Yes, especially these poor Ukrainian children:
(https://i.postimg.cc/mrhFrnkq/Screenshot-20220306-172357-NYTimes.jpg)
Shame on you!
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Don't quite think DT got their wording right on the homepage...
"Help charities fight the war against Ukraine!"
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Oh, dear. :(
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If Russia is afraid of NATO, they just have to be part of it. It would make the threat go away, just like magic..