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Author Topic: Would you consider going fulltime on $200 a weekday?  (Read 25195 times)

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michealo

« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2010, 11:30 »
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I would look at the option of leave of absence if it is an option that is available too you 3 months unpaid would allow you to start & give you a backout plan if you aren't happy with the results.

@ Sean - look at hiring your wife and paying for her
healthcare - then it is a business expense rather than a personal one


« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2010, 11:34 »
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I'm fortunate to live in Canada, where healthcare is taken care of.

... and donuts and bacon rain from the sky!  ;)

« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2010, 11:35 »
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I think most of you people need a reality check: 75% of working people in the USA earn less than $50k, and 88% earn less than $75k (USA Census Bureau, 2008). Referring to $50k as "residual income" or mentioning it in the same breath as a McDonald's or student wage is way, way, way, out of touch with reality, as is regarding it as an insufficient salary to provide a good quality of life. From his grammar, I'm guessing that the OP doesn't live in the USA, which may make $50k USD even more significant. As whitechild said, if he was making that much he'd "be awfully rich".

To answer the question, I started doing this full time in Jan 2007 - with zero images and zero microstock income - and haven't ever looked back or regretted it. I'm fortunate to live in Canada, where healthcare and pension are taken care of. For what it's worth, I agree with Microbius:

I would certainly go full time. Not because it is a lot of money-- what we are forgetting is that money isn't everything.
For me there is no better way to make a living, no boss, no awkward clients and flexible hours, need I say more

While I agree with the "money isn't everything" ideal, it also makes a difference if you're raising a family.

$50K is not sufficient for raising a large family, at least in the US.  You might be able to 'get by' but you probably won't be saving for college or retirement.  

Even if we're looking at $80K annually from microstock, that might be more comfortable for supporting a family, but there's too many uncertainties in this game.  Will your sales start heading south?  How long can you count on it?  It's too big a gamble to just kiss the full-time job goodbye if you have others relying on you to support the whole family.  (Believe me, these are all things I've spent a lot of time thinking about.)

« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2010, 11:36 »
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From his grammar, I'm guessing that the OP doesn't live in the USA, which may make $50k USD even more significant.
Interesting... I grew up in nyc and now live in Los Angeles. Maybe its my urban slang i speak that is confusing you. In both these cities, $50K isnt a whole lot. Other than that, i do agree with ur post.

I would certainly go full time. Not because it is a lot of money-- what we are forgetting is that money isn't everything.
For me there is no better way to make a living, no boss, no awkward clients and flexible hours, need I say more
I would agree that these are definately the main reason for me wanting to.

« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2010, 11:59 »
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I think most of you people need a reality check: 75% of working people in the USA earn less than $50k, and 88% earn less than $75k (USA Census Bureau, 2008). Referring to $50k as "residual income" or mentioning it in the same breath as a McDonald's or student wage is way, way, way, out of touch with reality, as is regarding it as an insufficient salary to provide a good quality of life.

The voice of reason, agree!

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2010, 12:09 »
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I'm fortunate to live in Canada, where healthcare is taken care of.

... and donuts and bacon rain from the sky!  ;)
At least Canadian Bacon is edible (it's what we call 'Bacon').  ;D

lisafx

« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2010, 12:24 »
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I think most of you people need a reality check: 75% of working people in the USA earn less than $50k, and 88% earn less than $75k (USA Census Bureau, 2008). Referring to $50k as "residual income" or mentioning it in the same breath as a McDonald's or student wage is way, way, way, out of touch with reality, as is regarding it as an insufficient salary to provide a good quality of life.

^^ Seriously!!  Folks on this forum must have some pretty lavish lifestyles to consider 50k/year pocket change  :o

I considered myself FT at half that.  Maybe because we had been living off my husband's income for over a decade while I raised my daughter, and also because his job provides health insurance. 

50k seems like enough income for one person to me, and most Americans seem to make do on that or less. 

RacePhoto

« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2010, 12:28 »
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I think most of you people need a reality check: 75% of working people in the USA earn less than $50k, and 88% earn less than $75k (USA Census Bureau, 2008). Referring to $50k as "residual income" or mentioning it in the same breath as a McDonald's or student wage is way, way, way, out of touch with reality, as is regarding it as an insufficient salary to provide a good quality of life.

The voice of reason, agree!

Actually the median income is $44,389, but with an added note: Today, 42% of all households have two income earners. Suddenly that $50,00 figure divided by two incomes, isn't so high?

That would mean there are a bunch of couples making $23,000 each to create a household income of $46,000. Average household appears  to be 2.35 people. Per capita money income, (1999) = $21,587

I'm not judging what level of lifestyle that may support, or anything else, just pointing out that $200 a day would be over $50,000 a year and above the average household income in the USA.

Personally? I'd take it because I'm single and living a frugal lifestyle right now. "normal" people ;) would strive to make more.

Flipping burgers? You'll make $15,000 a year and an assistant manager will make $27,000 in the US. Which means someone pulling down $300 a week in micro is making more than someone working minimum wage, 40 hours a week, at something else. Not too shabby being your own boss, if that someone is motivated and a good self-starter.

To answer the original question? YES! And I'd quit the two jobs I work now.

lisafx

« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2010, 12:47 »
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While I agree with the "money isn't everything" ideal, it also makes a difference if you're raising a family.

$50K is not sufficient for raising a large family, at least in the US.  You might be able to 'get by' but you probably won't be saving for college or retirement.  


^^I agree with that.  You can't raise a family in the US on 50k, at least in a middle class lifestyle.  We tried it and ended up getting into debt. 

But as an income for one person alone, or half of a couple's income you can lead a very comfortable lifestyle. 

« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2010, 13:39 »
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Come on!  Isn't $45.000 the average household income in US?  And here we are talking about one single person making that amount.

If someone is are already making that amount without working on this full time, just imagine what could be achieved doing it full time!

I don't mean to offend anyone but, some people will just never make the jump to be independent. They just don't have the spirit to go that way.  They have been educated to have a boss and need to feel they are "safe".

« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2010, 13:53 »
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I don't mean to offend anyone but, some people will just never make the jump to be independent. They just don't have the spirit to go that way.  They have been educated to have a boss and need to feel they are "safe".

On the contrary, I need to feel that my family is "safe." 

I am driven and independent-spiritied.  I intend to be in the $50,000/yr club soon.  But even if I join the $100,000/yr club I will not give up my full time job.  Not because I've "been educated to have a boss" but because my microstock income could decline at some point in the future, I would be a fool to give up a good-paying job that I enjoy.  I can't just "follow my heart" and chart my own course if it means putting my family at financial risk.  I prefer to have my cake and eat it too: make good money at a job that's fulfilling, AND spend some free time on a pursuit that is financially rewarding.

« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2010, 14:04 »
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Heck no.  After taxes, that would be $100 a day, plus all the expenses of insurance, equipment, etc.  That's not nearly enough cushion in case of unexpected drops or anything else.  You need to figure out what you need to live on, add in all the costs associated, and then double it.  (and that still wasn't enough for me to quit my job yet)

Unless you're single and living in your mom's basement or something where you have absolutely no risk at all.

if you're paying 50% taxes you need a better accountant -
the avg american pays 15-20% in TOTAL taxes --  and as a business, much of expenses become deductible, further lowering taxes.  $200 per day is $52K per year, which is well above the median US income; not suitable for everyone but certainly livable

s

« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2010, 14:18 »
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if you're paying 50% taxes you need a better accountant -
the avg american pays 15-20% in TOTAL taxes --  and as a business, much of expenses become deductible, further lowering taxes.  $200 per day is $52K per year, which is well above the median US income; not suitable for everyone but certainly livable

My deductions amounted to about 8% of my gross, and my taxes were effectively 31% of that.  There's no "better accountant" - this year, we did all we could.

50% of Americans pay ZERO taxes.  Apparently, I'm helping to cover for them.

« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2010, 14:21 »
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I don't mean to offend anyone but, some people will just never make the jump to be independent. They just don't have the spirit to go that way.  They have been educated to have a boss and need to feel they are "safe".

On the contrary, I need to feel that my family is "safe."  
...

Or it may be that, like a few others here, you're risk averse; you value financial security more than a healthier family lifestyle. I'm at the opposite end of the scale: As a single father with a college-bound teenager, the freedom I have now when taken together with the time I've been able to spend with my son far outweigh the benefits I had when pursuing a traditional career. Like you, I truly enjoyed my well-paying job, but it's absurd to compare where I would still be to where I am now if I hadn't accepted the risk. And I'm not alone in this - there are many who tell a similar tale. Like they say: no pain, no gain.

lisafx

« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2010, 14:26 »
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My deductions amounted to about 8% of my gross, and my taxes were effectively 31% of that.  There's no "better accountant" - this year, we did all we could.

Exactly^^.  Even taking every conceivable deduction you still get killed on Social Security self-employment taxes, over and above your income tax rate. 

I incorporated to defray some of the costs, but even so I paid in roughly 35% of my gross income in taxes. 

« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2010, 14:45 »
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"Radix malorum est cupiditas", as my old English teacher used to say. Love of money is the root of all evil.

It's been evil my whole life, unfortunately a necessary one. I never had a good job, nor did what I wanted to do. I drifted into photography and scrabble around to make it pay for my wonderful wife and four children. I'll probably end up dying a happy but poor man.

50,000$ is a good starting wage in any country in the world, it will keep you housed and clothed with food in your stomach. Anything extra is a bonus.

If I could do any job in the world, I'd play music for a living - as thing's are it's a luxury to find time to tune my guitar.

I'm overworked, stressed, graying and a shadow of my youth - all for the pursuit money. On the plus side I have no boss, and work from home where I can see my children grow up and hear them play in the garden after school when I'm at work.

If someone offered my good money for a job with benefits, sociable hours and holiday pay I might just take it, the alternative being held at the whim of people who may or may not buy my pictures.

If I was earning $200 a day doing what you are, I'd keep the other job and enjoy the extra cash. But, I'm no entrepreneur, just a working class English man with a chip on his sagging shoulders.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Oldhand (who's old before his time)

« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2010, 14:50 »
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I don't mean to offend anyone but, some people will just never make the jump to be independent. They just don't have the spirit to go that way.  They have been educated to have a boss and need to feel they are "safe".

On the contrary, I need to feel that my family is "safe."  
...

Or it may be that, like a few others here, you're risk averse; you value financial security more than a healthier family lifestyle. I'm at the opposite end of the scale: As a single father with a college-bound teenager, the freedom I have now when taken together with the time I've been able to spend with my son far outweigh the benefits I had when pursuing a traditional career. Like you, I truly enjoyed my well-paying job, but it's absurd to compare where I would still be to where I am now if I hadn't accepted the risk. And I'm not alone in this - there are many who tell a similar tale. Like they say: no pain, no gain.

There's "risk averse," and there's "risk aware."  I think anyone trained in financial planning would advise that microstock is not stable enough to place a significant bet on.  And quitting a good-paying, secure job is about as big a bet as you can place.   It's a market still in its infancy, companies are gobbling each other up and affecting our sales, and many of the top sellers are reporting declining income no matter how hard they work at it.   So far I've managed to defy the "no pain, no gain" rule by putting in a few hours each night (not too painful) to acheive sales that could rival my full time salary in the next year or two if my trend lines hold.  But who's to say if and when the microstock model blows up and we're all left with scraps?  I don't expect it to happen soon, but I don't like the idea of telling my kids they won't be going to college because I threw away a sure thing on a shaky bet.


« Reply #42 on: May 12, 2010, 15:01 »
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I don't mean to offend anyone but, some people will just never make the jump to be independent. They just don't have the spirit to go that way.  They have been educated to have a boss and need to feel they are "safe".

On the contrary, I need to feel that my family is "safe."  
...

Or it may be that, like a few others here, you're risk averse; you value financial security more than a healthier family lifestyle. I'm at the opposite end of the scale: As a single father with a college-bound teenager, the freedom I have now when taken together with the time I've been able to spend with my son far outweigh the benefits I had when pursuing a traditional career. Like you, I truly enjoyed my well-paying job, but it's absurd to compare where I would still be to where I am now if I hadn't accepted the risk. And I'm not alone in this - there are many who tell a similar tale. Like they say: no pain, no gain.
I agree: No pain, no gain.

My wife and I quitted our job many years ago.  It's not been easy, there's been very hard times but we are happy we did it.  The hard times have helped us grow stronger both as individuals and as a couple  Working from home, and having lots of time to be with our kids has been the most wonderful experience.

« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2010, 15:15 »
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I say everyone should quit their jobs and just do what they love.  You get more time with your kids and spouse.  Times will be tough, but you'll be stronger, happier.  Just don't get cancer because the doctors are all on the golf course.  Be careful not to set your house on fire because the firemen are now fly fishermen.  And learn how to hunt for your food and knit your clothing from pelts, because there will be no stores... why would clerks and shelf-stockers toil away in a soul-crushing store when they could be making jewelry or finger-painting?

But then... who will be left to buy your photos?  Hmmm... maybe we need capitalism to still function after all.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 15:18 by PowerDroid »

« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2010, 15:28 »
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I say everyone should quit their jobs and just do what they love.  You get more time with your kids and spouse.  Times will be tough, but you'll be stronger, happier.  Just don't get cancer because the doctors are all on the golf course.  Be careful not to set your house on fire because the firemen are now fly fishermen.  And learn how to hunt for your food and knit your clothing from pelts, because there will be no stores... why would clerks and shelf-stockers toil away in a soul-crushing store when they could be making jewelry or finger-painting?

But then... who will be left to buy your photos?  Hmmm... maybe we need capitalism to still function after all.

I don't think thats what the other two posters are saying.  If it was up to me all you people with good paying jobs would stick to them and stop sell your images cheap for pocket money. :) Then we Photographers who do this for a living could go back to making the big bucks, but thats not going to happen.  ;)

« Reply #45 on: May 12, 2010, 15:37 »
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I don't think thats what the other two posters are saying.  If it was up to me all you people with good paying jobs would stick to them and stop sell your images cheap for pocket money. :) Then we Photographers who do this for a living could go back to making the big bucks, but thats not going to happen.  ;)

Which is probably why sjlocke characteristically answered how he did - I'm sure that he's privately saying "Go for it, buddy - you won't regret it!"

« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2010, 15:42 »
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I say everyone should quit their jobs and just do what they love.  You get more time with your kids and spouse.  Times will be tough, but you'll be stronger, happier.  Just don't get cancer because the doctors are all on the golf course.  Be careful not to set your house on fire because the firemen are now fly fishermen.  And learn how to hunt for your food and knit your clothing from pelts, because there will be no stores... why would clerks and shelf-stockers toil away in a soul-crushing store when they could be making jewelry or finger-painting?

But then... who will be left to buy your photos?  Hmmm... maybe we need capitalism to still function after all.
Would you advice that?  Because I wouldn't.

Anyone wishing to quit a job, must have a good plan.   And as I said before:  Being independent is not for everyone.

Note:  What an interesting thread.  I am really enjoying it.  :)

« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2010, 15:53 »
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I say everyone should quit their jobs and just do what they love.  ...

I totally agree, PowerDroid. Everyone should do the job they love - the job they would do without getting paid to do it. You may not think so, but there would still be plenty of doctors, firefighters, clerks, and shelf-stockers to go around. Not *everyone* is trapped in a job they utterly dislike, you know. I think the problem is that a lot of people have too much fear to act on the things that truly matter to them. Speaking personally, I'm happy not to be part of that crowd; life is far more enjoyable when spent doing something intrinsically rewarding, whatever that may be.

ap

« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2010, 16:11 »
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I say everyone should quit their jobs and just do what they love.  You get more time with your kids and spouse.  Times will be tough, but you'll be stronger, happier.  Just don't get cancer because the doctors are all on the golf course.  Be careful not to set your house on fire because the firemen are now fly fishermen.  And learn how to hunt for your food and knit your clothing from pelts, because there will be no stores... why would clerks and shelf-stockers toil away in a soul-crushing store when they could be making jewelry or finger-painting?


you know, it may shock the microstock community, but being a fireman or a doctor is a dream job for some people. it may even be something they love or are passionate about. there is certainly more prestige and money. i mean, does anyone want a calendar full of microstocking boys and girls?

however, i agree that if you have full time professional job, to throw it away for microstock is risky if you're not pulling in at least 6 figures. it maybe hard to get back into the workplace later with a hole in your resume because you gave it up to pursue something you love to do.

« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2010, 16:25 »
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You may not think so, but there would still be plenty of doctors, firefighters, clerks, and shelf-stockers to go around. Not *everyone* is trapped in a job they utterly dislike, you know.


Plenty of shelf-stockers would do their job for free?  Really?

The majority of us dislike our jobs, according to this study... http://www.conference-board.org/utilities/pressDetail.cfm?press_ID=3820

QUOTE:

"Americans of all ages and income brackets continue to grow increasingly unhappy at work-a long-term trend that should be a red flag to employers, according to a report released today by The Conference Board. The report, based on a survey of 5,000 U.S. households conducted for The Conference Board by TNS, finds only 45 percent of those surveyed say they are satisfied with their jobs, down from 61.1 percent in 1987, the first year in which the survey was conducted."

I suggest that if those 55% quit their jobs to fly-fish, fingerpaint or microstock, society would fall apart.


 

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