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Author Topic: Yuri admits he's losing money !  (Read 41725 times)

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RacePhoto

« Reply #50 on: February 27, 2010, 23:02 »
0
What Stardate are we talking about, approximatively?  8)
Don't you go to the movies?  The technology is already here, it's just so expensive that it can only be used on projects that make millions.  That will change, and it will happen way sooner than you think. 

Sure, Sure, and next you're going to tell me film is dead and the manufacturers will stop making cameras and most of the popular 35mm film types. ;)


« Reply #51 on: February 27, 2010, 23:50 »
0
After reading the bad news from Yuri i made some calculations and found out...there's no way to discuss the numbers without knowing how he comes to his conclusions. Did he meant a profit of $3 or 4,5 after rent, equipment, etc. and taxes or did he meant a sales volume p.P. ?

At the moment i found out i have a sales volume of more than 5$ p.P. without any deductions.

« Reply #52 on: February 28, 2010, 00:44 »
0
After reading the bad news from Yuri i made some calculations and found out...there's no way to discuss the numbers without knowing how he comes to his conclusions. Did he meant a profit of $3 or 4,5 after rent, equipment, etc. and taxes or did he meant a sales volume p.P. ?

At the moment i found out i have a sales volume of more than 5$ p.P. without any deductions.

It's commonly understood that RPI means Revenue per Image per Month.
You calculate it on a monthly basis by dividing income by portfolio size for each agency you contribute to, then sum up the individual RPIs to get your gross RPI.
RPI is a general measure of the income potential of your imagery, and does not take into account production costs.

I have no idea what you mean by "a sales volume p.P." - sounds like you made up this term by yourself.

microstockphoto.co.uk

« Reply #53 on: February 28, 2010, 04:06 »
0
be careful, as the next big thing in microstock could be a sudden invasion of
chinese and indian photographers selling like crazy with very low production costs.

actually i'm surprised it didn't happened already, maybe their english isn't good enough
for keywording ?  ???

Models / architecture / landscapes / lifestyles... in India and China are different from Europe / United States - not better or worse, just different; only studio shots of objects could be exactly the same

So Indians / Chinese photographers are not entirely competitors to us, they will bring nice additions in terms of variety; and this will also attract more buyers to microstock

Dook

« Reply #54 on: February 28, 2010, 04:15 »
0
be careful, as the next big thing in microstock could be a sudden invasion of
chinese and indian photographers selling like crazy with very low production costs.

actually i'm surprised it didn't happened already, maybe their english isn't good enough
for keywording ?  ???

Models / architecture / landscapes / lifestyles... in India and China are different from Europe / United States - not better or worse, just different; only studio shots of objects could be exactly the same

So Indians / Chinese photographers are not entirely competitors to us, they will bring nice additions in terms of variety; and this will also attract more buyers to microstock
Talking about cheap mass production with Caucasian models - Russia.

« Reply #55 on: February 28, 2010, 05:21 »
0
As I remember, one of the videos from Fotolia Workshop where Yuri was invited, someone asked him how many employees are involved in his business. And if I`m not wrog his answer was: 10 from denmark, 1 germany, 1 from US and 10 from india. So what they are doing from india: keywording, retouching???
I`ll check up for the video to be sure about those numbers that I mentioned above.

Tamas

Dook

« Reply #56 on: February 28, 2010, 05:23 »
0
Yes, keywording and retouching.

« Reply #57 on: February 28, 2010, 05:26 »
0
be careful, as the next big thing in microstock could be a sudden invasion of
chinese and indian photographers selling like crazy with very low production costs.

actually i'm surprised it didn't happened already, maybe their english isn't good enough
for keywording ?  ???


Models / architecture / landscapes / lifestyles... in India and China are different from Europe / United States - not better or worse, just different; only studio shots of objects could be exactly the same

So Indians / Chinese photographers are not entirely competitors to us, they will bring nice additions in terms of variety; and this will also attract more buyers to microstock

Talking about cheap mass production with Caucasian models - Russia.


Russian pictures and models look very Russian. Buyers will always look for pictures that are suited for the demography they are catering to. I often browse through parenting magazines, and have yet to see a Russian name under one of the children pictures. I guess the Russian kids are just to clean and well dressed to fit into our views of a happy child.
http://www.klikk.no/foreldre/smabarn/article530159.ece (This one is quite clean compared to many other pictures I've seen)

« Reply #58 on: February 28, 2010, 05:29 »
0
So here is the video, wait till 1.46, I was wrong about the german one.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8XmMmSceK4[/youtube]

« Reply #59 on: February 28, 2010, 05:36 »
0
What really concerns me is the growing preference for non-photographic imagery.  When I do a search for an object I'm thinking about shooting, I very often find the best-selling images are vector renderings, and the trend is growing.  I think we're not far from the day when CGI rendered models (of people) will be preferred for most stock shots.   All those beautiful well-dressed people in business meetings, in lavish futuristic office spaces - all those handsome, rugged looking doctors in scrubs - will be synthesized.  No model releases, no privacy issues, no homely people, perfect teeth, any desired ethnicity, gender and age group.  It can't be far off.  

It's a very good point, but it's still quite far off. The reason is the time and effort it takes to produce a very good and convincing human being in an environment. It's absolutely possible and fairly indistinguishable from reality, but it takes time and I don't think it's cost effective. It's way more efficient for shooting video though, cause once you create the scene and set it up, you can create a huge amount of footage in practically no time (save the rendering-time which is always decreasing).

We'll see in 10 years or so, things will improve and there might be a turning point where digital stock will become cost effective.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 05:48 by Fran »

« Reply #60 on: February 28, 2010, 05:41 »
0
Maybe I am crazy, but I think the fact that Yuri's production model is ultimately proving to be unprofitable is both predictable and welcome news. 

The factory folks who have been flooding the micros the past couple of years with thousands upon thousands of cookie cutter images all shot on the same formula have virtually buried the offerings of the rest of us.  While at the same time they are running up production costs that are totally unsustainable at micro prices.

It seems inevitable their business model would cease to be profitable for them.  Maybe once they move on to greener pastures it will allow those of us with realistic production costs and thrifty business models to thrive.

With respect to the newbies being recruited, I think the barriers to entry are increasing to a point where only the very determined will stick it out.     

Well said Lisa, agree 100%.

It is kind of ironic that it is the 'image factories' themselves who are most to blame for swamping their own market so quickly. It reminds me of the countless times in history that people have wiped out their own food source by greedily hunting or fishing it to excess.

The current microstock market is probably worth something like $4-500M per annum and generating maybe $150M in commissions to contributors. There's plenty a good living to be had from that for many people.  In the long term it will only be those who are careful with their costs, efficient in their production and who also have genuine talent who will survive.

Dook

« Reply #61 on: February 28, 2010, 05:44 »
0
be careful, as the next big thing in microstock could be a sudden invasion of
chinese and indian photographers selling like crazy with very low production costs.

actually i'm surprised it didn't happened already, maybe their english isn't good enough
for keywording ?  ???


Models / architecture / landscapes / lifestyles... in India and China are different from Europe / United States - not better or worse, just different; only studio shots of objects could be exactly the same

So Indians / Chinese photographers are not entirely competitors to us, they will bring nice additions in terms of variety; and this will also attract more buyers to microstock

Talking about cheap mass production with Caucasian models - Russia.


Russian pictures and models look very Russian. Buyers will always look for pictures that are suited for the demography they are catering to. I often browse through parenting magazines, and have yet to see a Russian name under one of the children pictures. I guess the Russian kids are just to clean and well dressed to fit into our views of a happy child.
http://www.klikk.no/foreldre/smabarn/article530159.ece (This one is quite clean compared to many other pictures I've seen)
[/quote
You can recognize Russian child? So, than Yuri is selling only in Denmark?

« Reply #62 on: February 28, 2010, 06:42 »
0
You can recognize Russian child? So, than Yuri is selling only in Denmark?
Ethnic Germans (the well selling blond hair blue eye types) are historically spread out over Poland, Czechia, Ukraine, and the Western part of Russia.

macrosaur

    This user is banned.
« Reply #63 on: February 28, 2010, 06:43 »
0


Russian pictures and models look very Russian. Buyers will always look for pictures that are suited for the demography they are catering to. I often browse through parenting magazines, and have yet to see a Russian name under one of the children pictures. I guess the Russian kids are just to clean and well dressed to fit into our views of a happy child.
http://www.klikk.no/foreldre/smabarn/article530159.ece (This one is quite clean compared to many other pictures I've seen)


then try Australia or NZ or Argentina, great places to live and way cheaper than Denmark.
i don't think you'll have any problem finding caucasian or "nordic" models.

p.s.
Russia is too expensive now, and they don't like foreigners but there are 300.000 non-chinese people in Beijing, a crowd of expats
in Shanghai and Hongkong and Singapore and Bangkok.

another option is Canada : living standards similar to the US, and cost of life cheaper than europe.

i mean, however we look at it, europe and especially scandinavia is all about high costs and high taxation.
no wonder our factories are all outsourcing elsewhere.

yuri's business could be a textbook case : 22 employees for shooting microstock ?? 3 studios ??
but maybe his family is rich and he owns the studios, who knows.

macrosaur

    This user is banned.
« Reply #64 on: February 28, 2010, 06:45 »
0


It is kind of ironic that it is the 'image factories' themselves who are most to blame for swamping their own market so quickly. It reminds me of the countless times in history that people have wiped out their own food source by greedily hunting or fishing it to excess.

The current microstock market is probably worth something like $4-500M per annum and generating maybe $150M in commissions to contributors. There's plenty a good living to be had from that for many people.  In the long term it will only be those who are careful with their costs, efficient in their production and who also have genuine talent who will survive.

maybe the problem is not there and lies also in the fact that RF images can be used forever unlike RM ?

macrosaur

    This user is banned.
« Reply #65 on: February 28, 2010, 06:48 »
0
You can recognize Russian child? So, than Yuri is selling only in Denmark?
Ethnic Germans (the well selling blond hair blue eye types) are historically spread out over Poland, Czechia, Ukraine, and the Western part of Russia.

Sure but any european can easily spot a german from a slav.

As for "diversity" it's funny to see the supermarkets' brochures in Singapore : they're forced to put malays, indians, chinese, muslims, and the odd caucasian in every graphic design.

macrosaur

    This user is banned.
« Reply #66 on: February 28, 2010, 06:51 »
0
As I remember, one of the videos from Fotolia Workshop where Yuri was invited, someone asked him how many employees are involved in his business. And if I`m not wrog his answer was: 10 from denmark, 1 germany, 1 from US and 10 from india. So what they are doing from india: keywording, retouching???
I`ll check up for the video to be sure about those numbers that I mentioned above.

Tamas

but what are the 10 from denmark doing ?
are they shooting or just photoshopping ?


« Reply #67 on: February 28, 2010, 08:12 »
0
What really concerns me is the growing preference for non-photographic imagery.  When I do a search for an object I'm thinking about shooting, I very often find the best-selling images are vector renderings, and the trend is growing.  I think we're not far from the day when CGI rendered models (of people) will be preferred for most stock shots.   All those beautiful well-dressed people in business meetings, in lavish futuristic office spaces - all those handsome, rugged looking doctors in scrubs - will be synthesized.  No model releases, no privacy issues, no homely people, perfect teeth, any desired ethnicity, gender and age group.  It can't be far off. 

That's because most of the microstock photos have that plastic, bleached look, rather than authenticity.
Also you sound like 3D and Vector artists do nothing but press a button to generate images. The truth is there's a lot more work involved in 3D models and rendering than in photography, so I don't think this is viable. And that's without counting the time that takes to master a 3D program(incomparable to photography, imho)

« Reply #68 on: February 28, 2010, 08:26 »
0

but what are the 10 from denmark doing ?
are they shooting or just photoshopping ?
Most of Yuri's photos are made by Yuri himself. Last August he said that it's maximum 30% from some shoots that is made by his assistants (i.e. the average nr in his portfolio is much lower). I doubt it changed much since then.

But it's not just photoshopping all these people are doing - it's location scouting, organizing with properties, models, accessories; assisting during shoots, etc. I believe it's 1-2 doing some processing in Denmark, and it's mainly Indian people doing photoshopping for Yuri.

« Reply #69 on: February 28, 2010, 09:40 »
0
You can recognize Russian child? So, than Yuri is selling only in Denmark?
Ethnic Germans (the well selling blond hair blue eye types) are historically spread out over Poland, Czechia, Ukraine, and the Western part of Russia.
I'm 50% Italian blood, 37.5% Portuguese blood, 12.5% of an undefined mix of Portuguese+Dutch+(perhaps native). Yesterday a guy at the pharmacy asked if I was of German origin, as I reminded his deceased sister, and they were 100% German blood.  I believe that being white and overweight helped him make this confusion.   ;D

With all invasions back and forth along the history of the world, it is hard to define your ethnic background.  But of course, in China they don't relate with a blue-eyed blonde, but a blue-eye blonde may apper "normal" to all Europe and America, plus some other places (AU, NZ, ZA).

macrosaur

    This user is banned.
« Reply #70 on: February 28, 2010, 09:59 »
0
You can recognize Russian child? So, than Yuri is selling only in Denmark?
Ethnic Germans (the well selling blond hair blue eye types) are historically spread out over Poland, Czechia, Ukraine, and the Western part of Russia.
I'm 50% Italian blood, 37.5% Portuguese blood, 12.5% of an undefined mix of Portuguese+Dutch+(perhaps native). Yesterday a guy at the pharmacy asked if I was of German origin, as I reminded his deceased sister, and they were 100% German blood.  I believe that being white and overweight helped him make this confusion.   ;D

With all invasions back and forth along the history of the world, it is hard to define your ethnic background.  But of course, in China they don't relate with a blue-eyed blonde, but a blue-eye blonde may apper "normal" to all Europe and America, plus some other places (AU, NZ, ZA).

i can spot people's ethnicity as long as they're european.
basically there are 3-4 major clusters, it's no big deal.
americans are all mixed, impossible to spot where they came from.

frankly i can't see how Yuri couldn't make good photos with eastern european
models, they look a bit slav but all in all they can pass for americans unless
you search for the weird ones.

there's plenty of russian female models in fashion magazines and newspapers.
argentina might be a good place for his photos, there are spanish, italians,
germans, russians ... i can't imagine him being short of good looking girls
in Buenos Aires.

i was thinking about moving there ... with 500 euro you can rent a huge apartment
and the food is great, i speak also some spanish, we'll see.

macrosaur

    This user is banned.
« Reply #71 on: February 28, 2010, 10:02 »
0

I'm 50% Italian blood, 37.5% Portuguese blood, 12.5% of an undefined mix of Portuguese+Dutch+(perhaps native). Yesterday a guy at the pharmacy asked if I was of German origin, as I reminded his deceased sister, and they were 100% German blood.  I believe that being white and overweight helped him make this confusion.   ;D

if that matters, i'm from northern italy and i'm blond and blue eyes.
there's this legend that ALL italians have dark eyes and hairs but it's BS as
a good 10-15% of us are light hairs and light eyes.

the darkies are mostly in the south as they were colonized from greeks,
arabs, etc

people always ask me if i'm french and say my accent is german ... ???

macrosaur

    This user is banned.
« Reply #72 on: February 28, 2010, 10:07 »
0

Most of Yuri's photos are made by Yuri himself. Last August he said that it's maximum 30% from some shoots that is made by his assistants (i.e. the average nr in his portfolio is much lower). I doubt it changed much since then.

But it's not just photoshopping all these people are doing - it's location scouting, organizing with properties, models, accessories; assisting during shoots, etc. I believe it's 1-2 doing some processing in Denmark, and it's mainly Indian people doing photoshopping for Yuri.

to me it all sounds verrrry expensive, especially if he's also paying the models.

we'll see how it goes, and we'll laugh.

« Reply #73 on: February 28, 2010, 11:45 »
0
... and, I actually totally agree with Ian Murray:
"What concerns me is that we now have a new type of entrepreneur targeting the hobbyist and encouraging them, really against their own best interest, to enter the micro world. I mean those people who run pro-micro blogs, give workshops, sell books. I have no wish to be personally rude to anybody but this kind of spin-off seems parasitic to me and nothing to do with supporting a creative stock photography industry. Its about finding positions from which to benefit from crowd sourcing whilst knowing full well the damage that it does both to new entrants and those already within the industry."


I agree the model is predatory.  In the beginning the model was not much of a threat because many of the entrepreneurs did not know much about stock photography or digital.  It was clear to see that a few used the fake it until you make it strategy. Because the net culture is all about sharing info, they did find many of us who were naive enough to share valuable information with them over the last 5 years and that info could be incorporated into workshops, books and frequent promotional blurbs.

Those of us who were naive enough to share valuable info with one particular business model are kicking ourselves for adding to the industry pain we are experiencing now and are feeling guilty when we see others being taken advantage of.  It is quite clear that money is the objective and the rest of us are inconsequential. The SS critique forums have been staked out for some time as a source of income for that business model.  First it uses the critique area to beat down the new shooters confidence, then offers carrots of hope for improvement and income, then convinces the new shooters that it alone holds the superior key or info that will lead to success. For a fat fee of course.

They're very chatty over there.


Yes they are

http://submit.shutterstock.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=77693

http://submit.shutterstock.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=78105
« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 12:13 by gbalex »

« Reply #74 on: February 28, 2010, 12:45 »
0

Most of Yuri's photos are made by Yuri himself. Last August he said that it's maximum 30% from some shoots that is made by his assistants (i.e. the average nr in his portfolio is much lower). I doubt it changed much since then.

But it's not just photoshopping all these people are doing - it's location scouting, organizing with properties, models, accessories; assisting during shoots, etc. I believe it's 1-2 doing some processing in Denmark, and it's mainly Indian people doing photoshopping for Yuri.


to me it all sounds verrrry expensive, especially if he's also paying the models.

we'll see how it goes, and we'll laugh.

Yes I totally agree - Yuri isn't running his business at low cost at all. I am sure costs of Ron Chapple are much lower and I am almost sure costs of Andres are much lower too.

I think it was too easy for Yuri when this market was young; and now it's changing. I am sure Yuri can survive that successfully, but his rather luxury style will need to change. Of course his costs of production are high if he flies models from another countries in business class and lodges them in luxury hotels (http://www.arcurs.com/german-model-eva-marie-tells-her-story-on-working-with-yuri-arcurs); and he keeps ten full-time employees in Denmark - but all these is relatively easy to squeeze.


 

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