Quote from: tickstock on August 11, 2013, 20:57

Actually you said there was no possible way the math would work out and I gave a scenario where it would, I didn't say you would make that, just that it was mathematically possible.  Especially now look at the difference in pricing between an XXXL non exclusive and an XXXL Vetta, it's 23 times more and add to that the increase in royalty % and you're at 30x.  I'm not saying all your content would be made Vetta, just that it is a mathematical possibility which you said it wasn't.  Hopefully this cleared up your misunderstanding a little.
ETA my own estimate for how much I would lose at Istock by going nonexclusive is over 90%.

Mathematically possible? Sure, fine. But I'm not running my business on long-shot remote possibilities.

It still seems like it is your belief that it is possible that anyone, even someone like me with so low of a percentage of my income coming from istock, can do better with the crown. And yet everything I've seen and heard tells me that it is impossible my earnings would multiple by 20x if I were exclusive. Have you ever heard of a case where someone's income jumped that much when they became exclusive? The best I've ever heard of is folks reporting 3x or 4x previous earnings.

I just think it's kind of funny that you'll call other people dismissive when it is pretty clear you aren't really open to any beliefs and assumptions other than your own.

These are your exact words "I know that if my istock income is 5% of my total monthly microstock income, there is no mathematical way possible that going exclusive would make up the missing 95%."

It is mathematically possible, that's all I said.  If a large portion of your files gets moved to Vetta (remember you get 30+ times more from that) then it is possible.  Also you get Getty sales, for some people those equal Istock sales, for me it's about 33% of Istock sales. 

From my own numbers I would guess that dropping exclusivity would result in at least 90% reduction in earnings and I don't have a lot of Vetta files, people with a good amount of Vetta files would drop much further.  I don't think I'm being dismissive at all, I'm looking at all of the data available and making an educated guess that you don't agree with.

I make 0% of my income at IS, so I'm going with mathematically impossible. 

Can't argue with that.

Quote from: tickstock on August 12, 2013, 11:02

Quote from: cthoman on August 12, 2013, 11:00

I make 0% of my income at IS, so I'm going with mathematically impossible. 

Can't argue with that.

In all seriousness, 30% I would think would be the point you should start looking at it. Anything below that seems like an unsafe bet.

Right now I'd say 20% is pretty much a guarantee and 10% isn't crazy (and for embermike, 5% is possible).  Minimally pricing differences are around 4x and royalty rates are 2x so without considering search position, moving up a level from higher RCs, higher PP earnings, Vetta, S+, or Getty you would be making 8x more per sale.  It's probably different for illustrators, I don't really have much of an idea what's going on there these days.

Quote from: tickstock on August 12, 2013, 11:16

Quote from: cthoman on August 12, 2013, 11:07

Quote from: tickstock on August 12, 2013, 11:02

Quote from: cthoman on August 12, 2013, 11:00

I make 0% of my income at IS, so I'm going with mathematically impossible. 

Can't argue with that.

In all seriousness, 30% I would think would be the point you should start looking at it. Anything below that seems like an unsafe bet.

Right now I'd say 20% is pretty much a guarantee and 10% isn't crazy (and for embermike, 5% is possible).  Minimally pricing differences are around 4x and royalty rates are 2x so without considering search position, moving up a level from higher RCs, higher PP earnings, Vetta, S+, or Getty you would be making 8x more per sale.  It's probably different for illustrators, I don't really have much of an idea what's going on there these days.

8 times your current? That's a fantasy land.

8x current RPD, right now.  I don't think that's really in dispute, is it?  All nonexclusive images are 1-7 credits, S pricing(which all new exclusive content goes into and most every old file with a sale) is at 5-28 credits so about 4x.  Royalty rates are about 2x for exclusives over nonexclusives.  2x and 4x is 8x.  That assumes none of your files are moved to S+ or Vetta in which case the price goes to about 8x and 23x respectively, with RPD increases of 16x and 30x. 

It would depend totally whether the files have any indie rivals, which buyers can see at a glance is cheaper. Conversely, it isn't obvious in a search (and of course, iStock did it deliberately, just to piss off buyers) which exclusive files are available at main price. Although they lied that the collections change was to make things more transparent to to the buyers, before the change the price symbol was visible on a search.

Certainly don't consider search position. In my regular checks, which are of small search results (so that they're all on one page) there seem to be a few exclusive at the top, then a big swathe of indies in the middle, then exclusives with 1-10 downloads at the bottom. Only a few very old 'oddities' disturb that pattern. However, I can't be bothered analysing huge searches like 'sexy businesswoman', which could well have a different pattern.

I don't know about that at all, most all the searches I do have way more exclusive files in the first 200 than nonexclusive files, like 90% on a lot of searches.  92% of the first 200 for 'new york city', 95% for 'businesswoman'.   Is it honestly your belief that if you gave up exclusivity your files would get better best match treatment?  I don't believe that for one second.

8x current RPD, right now.  I don't think that's really in dispute, is it?  All nonexclusive images are 1-7 credits, S pricing(which all new exclusive content goes into and most every old file with a sale) is at 5-28 credits so about 4x.  Royalty rates are about 2x for exclusives over nonexclusives.  2x and 4x is 8x.  That assumes none of your files are moved to S+ or Vetta in which case the price goes to about 8x and 23x respectively, with RPD increases of 16x and 30x.

Sorry. I thought you meant 8 times income not RPD.

I've never heard of anyone reporting an 800% or 1000% increase in earnings upon going exclusive. 150-300%, maybe 4 times if your style is really suited for istock and they choose a lot of vettas AND they sell...

 And lately all you here is people losing money, even from those who contribute over 1900 new filesin 12months...

The price of your files will increase if you go exclusive, but the volume of sales will drop and on Vettas your royalty will be lower than on the S+ files.

I am sure the earnings poll on the right is correct, but you cannot use it to imply that anyones portfolio will see a 1000% increase in earnings upon going exclusive.

If this was happening we would all know about it. The istock community might be scared to post on the istock forums, but they are all extremly well connected, especially those who do it full time.

Quote from: Xanox on July 30, 2013, 21:55

c'mon guys, Yuri's press release if of course a funny PR stunt but i've seen a lot worse in other industries.

i don't have the feeling Yuri reached the point where he's believing his own sh-it, he's just having a laugh on micro agencies and SS in particular, guess he still has a chip on the shoulder with them ?

you're all angry because Yuri was the living proof it was possible to make a living with microstock alone and now you're shocked and despaired to be told by the king himself that you better go back to macro agencies as micro is financially unsustainable as it is today.

so you feel betrayed and rejected by the guy you idolized for so long but seriously i can't see any mind control tricks in his statements, just common marketing BS you can read in any other press release, i think he was just in a happy mood drinking a couple beers and wanting to have fun on you guys.

He's having a laugh and you're having a laugh but it doesn't make me angry, I find it funny.  Yuri is a factory, has nothing at all in common with the cheap way the vast majority of microstockers work.  It looks like he's been paid off by Getty, good for him.  I'll carry on doing what I want to do and not taking advice from people that know nothing about working with very low expenses.  I don't want to be the owner of a big business or have to work only with Getty.  I'm quite happy as a sole trader.  There's problems with microstock but there's also problems with the traditional sites and we all have to deal with them in our own way. 

It's a shame we can't all get together and work on the real problem, sites that are making huge profits while reducing the commission they pay us.  They always seem to get the last laugh.  Imagine how funny they find these threads with stock contributors bickering when it takes the attention away from what they're doing.

In the state of things, no chance. Work together? A union you mean? I really put thought into that, but decided to abandon it primarily because of the people that would be "in the union". Not a chance that would have worked.

I've never heard of anyone reporting an 800% or 1000% increase in earnings upon going exclusive. 150-300%, maybe 4 times if your style is really suited for istock and they choose a lot of vettas AND they sell...

 And lately all you here is people losing money, even from those who contribute over 1900 new filesin 12months...

The price of your files will increase if you go exclusive, but the volume of sales will drop and on Vettas your royalty will be lower than on the S+ files.

I am sure the earnings poll on the right is correct, but you cannot use it to imply that anyones portfolio will see a 1000% increase in earnings upon going exclusive.

If this was happening we would all know about it. The istock community might be scared to post on the istock forums, but they are all extremly well connected, especially those who do it full time.

Just a few numbers from my own sales,  50% of my last 100 sales were S+ and Vetta, and 40% were S so that makes my RPD around 13x what it would have been if I was nonexclusive getting those same sales.
If "all you hear is people losing money" then I think you aren't listening.  The earnings thread where you talk about the person uploading 1900 files and losing money has a black diamond and other diamonds saying they are up year on year, more than just a couple too.  I also think most people there are reporting just on Istock numbers and not accounting for Getty Images sales, after all those haven't come in yet.  My Istock sales are lower but most months GI sales have balanced that out or increased it.

Quote from: Xanox on July 31, 2013, 04:10

... he got the foot in the door with IS at the right time and at the right place, found his own "gold mine" and executed his business plan better than all the other players...

Did he? Really? I think that's a highly debatable point.

I'd argue that other people are far more successful than Yuri, people who are making good money without all of the overhead he has. Honestly I cant imagine how he makes any money when he has 100 employees to pay and his whole business brings in less than $10 million. Sounds like a lot of money but it doesn't go far when you've got so many mouths to feed.

Quote from: Xanox on July 31, 2013, 04:10

ironically for photographers, your limit is not seeing the whole picture ...

Could say the same for you, ignoring the big part of the picture where Yuri not only has a ton of money coming in but also has a ton going out the door also.

We will just have to wait and see who wins as the most expansive company in Denmark next year wont we.

tickstock, as you know, I used to work closely with many people in the istock community. And if you want to see monthly sales threads that give a very positive impression of success and overall well being of the company, why don't you go back two or three years and look at the threads there. The sales threads happening now are unbelievably depressing.And the reports from the network grid are even worse and the majority of community interaction is no longer taking place on the istock forums. You don't seem to be using them yourself...

istock is a shadow of what it used to be, wether it is growth, money, trust, business vision etc...

Which is a great shame, they made it really easy for SS and other competitors.

Maybe Yuri can help them, but it doesn't sound like he is going to work with them in any business development position.

But he is very intelligent, so maybe they can pick his brain for fresh ideas in their struggle to stop the loss of market share and good people giving up exclusivity.

There is a lot istock can do to move away from the icebergs. But so far the changes this year don't look very promising. Unfortunately. I really would prefer to see them turn things round. I believe that balance in the market is best for the contributors, irrespective wether you are exclusive or indie.

The sales threads happening now are unbelievably depressing.And the reports from the network grid are even worse and the majority of community interaction is no longer taking place on the istock forums. You don't seem to be using them yourself...

I assume they weren't offering us vector peeps 20% again because everything was peachy either.

Well, old threads show you a time when the company was doing well and the threads reflected that. So I guess it is normal to use them as an indicator. Threads, forums, community network. What else do contributors have?

The most important is the future obviously. And the tea leaves I read tell me istock is going down and in the 3 months since being indie all that I see happening at istock makes me grateful I made the jump. I probably should have left much earlier, but like many I waited and waited and waited..but it just kept getting worse and worse.

If you feel comfortable with istock and your income is growing or remaining the same, good for you. But even you said, you are currently not uploading, so you must be worried about something.

Anyway, if you and Yuri feel being exclusive is the best way to make money out of your files - good for you.

But your positive sentiments don't seem to be shared with a very, very large number of istock exclusives and indies.