Author Topic: Anybody participating Pond5 membership program? If so, how's revenue? (Read 35169 times)

helloitsme · « **on:** May 13, 2016, 09:27 »

Has your total revenue increase selling for membership files? How many files? I'm not a part of the membership sellers, but am wondering if it's good for contributors to participate in the membership sales.

It seems like that's the reason Pond5's total revenue for contributors seem declining these days, but I really don't know. If it's bad for contributors as a whole, I hope they stop the membership program.

helloitsme · « **Reply #1 on:** May 14, 2016, 02:15 »

OK, nobody is participating in the membership program. That's good. I hope they stop that.

Brightontl · « **Reply #2 on:** May 14, 2016, 02:30 »

I am not participating to the program, but since this bloody thing started sales of clips have totally tanked for practically everybody, from what I read in the different forums.
I knew it was coming: if customers can have 300,000 very good clips covering most subjects for about $6, why on earth should they be buying anywhere else?
The only way forward now is to hope that other agencies will start selling footage at $5 for each clip and hope that this will kill pond 5

sharpshot · « **Reply #3 on:** May 14, 2016, 05:08 »

Quote from: Brightontl on May 14, 2016, 02:30

I am not participating to the program, but since this bloody thing started sales of clips have totally tanked for practically everybody, from what I read in the different forums.
I knew it was coming: if customers can have 300,000 very good clips covering most subjects for about $6, why on earth should they be buying anywhere else?
The only way forward now is to hope that other agencies will start selling footage at $5 for each clip and hope that this will kill pond 5

If that's the only way forward, I will give up on video.

Pablito · « **Reply #4 on:** May 14, 2016, 05:08 »

Quote from: Brightontl on May 14, 2016, 02:30

if customers can have 300,000 very good clips covering most subjects for about $6, why on earth should they be buying anywhere else?

Could I ask where the number 300,000 came from?

cobalt · « **Reply #5 on:** May 14, 2016, 05:18 »

Look at the pond5 membership sales page.

They offer over 400 000 files, including over 200 000 videos. Maybe they now have more.

SquirrelPower · « **Reply #6 on:** May 14, 2016, 06:54 »

Quote from: Brightontl on May 14, 2016, 02:30

I am not participating to the program, but since this bloody thing started sales of clips have totally tanked for practically everybody, from what I read in the different forums.
I knew it was coming: if customers can have 300,000 very good clips covering most subjects for about $6, why on earth should they be buying anywhere else?
The only way forward now is to hope that other agencies will start selling footage at $5 for each clip and hope that this will kill pond 5

Yea but will there be enough volume of sales at $5 for the agencies and artists to make a go of it? Don't know. Even at $20. you need a hell of a lot of volume. Dollar store does it but would it would in this industry?

Pablito · « **Reply #7 on:** May 14, 2016, 07:34 »

Quote from: cobalt on May 14, 2016, 05:18

Look at the pond5 membership sales page.

They offer over 400 000 files, including over 200 000 videos. Maybe they now have more.

I know the numbers and where to get them from.
I was just interested where Brightontl had got 300,000 - as they're not the figures.

ShadySue · « **Reply #8 on:** May 14, 2016, 08:56 »

Quote from: Brightontl on May 14, 2016, 02:30

The only way forward now is to hope that other agencies will start selling footage at $5 for each clip and hope that this will kill pond 5

And that would be good because ... ?

thepokergod · « **Reply #9 on:** May 14, 2016, 09:48 »

I have about 450 files in the membership programs. Sales have utterly tanked this year starting from January, currently running about 40% compared to this time last year.

If nothing improves in next 4-6 weeks I'll be giving notice to remove my content from the program. Pond5 used to be a super seller for my footage at good high price, it's tanked now. Thankfully I don't put all my eggs in one basket and have contingency plans for such events - sales continue to be solid and improving elsewhere.

Brightontl · « **Reply #10 on:** May 15, 2016, 03:08 »

Sorry guy, 300,000 was my mistake. I can see now that they have 200,000 clips on the membership area at P5.
But it does not make much difference: it is still a big offer of good clips covering most subject for incredibly low prices.
Why on earth any customer should buy any clips in the marketplace?
Besides many other customers will move there from SS and FT, some already have.
If you are partcecipating, do yourself a favour and get out from this rip off sheme

Brightontl · « **Reply #11 on:** May 15, 2016, 03:22 »

Quote from: ShadySue on May 14, 2016, 08:56

Quote from: Brightontl on May 14, 2016, 02:30
The only way forward now is to hope that other agencies will start selling footage at $5 for each clip and hope that this will kill pond 5
And that would be good because ... ?

Of course not good, but the only way to survive for video artists.
At the moment apparently all customers are buying clips in the bloody membership area of p5 and those sale don't generate any royalties for artists (just half a peanut a month for clip, regardless of the amount of downloads).
In other words P5 have cornered th market and taken the artists out of. They can even stop accepting uploads, get rid of curators, of the forum and so on.
With those 200,000 files given away for extremely low prices the can make an enormous amount of cash for a few years. And I am sure that they wil have another go and try to increase the number of files.
Of course SS and FT will lose most or all of their video customers, unless they compete on prices (i.e. a price war with p5). That means selling clips for less than $10.
At that price there is no room for three agencies to survive. The first to die will be p5, because they rely entirely on video, the other two can go on with still sales.
Once p5 is dead and buried, price can try to go slowly back to normal (although is never easy to increase prices)

Pablito · « **Reply #12 on:** May 15, 2016, 03:45 »

<<<At the moment apparently all customers are buying clips in the bloody membership area of p5 and those sale don't generate any royalties for artists (just half a peanut a month for clip, regardless of the amount of downloads).>>>

Just for accuracy's sake - it isn't 'regardless of amount of downloads'. There is another facet to the "deal" but it's up to P5 to tell none-participating contributors the facts - not me.

I'm not advocating for or against the "deal" I'm just advocating accuracy; which seems to be the first casualty on the forum.

Having said all that you have made a reasonable resume of the situation; except that some people are doing very well from the scheme - there are always going to be winners and losers. The winners in this case - so far -are the bigger producers who have put the most effort and money in to making quality video. How long this situation will last - who knows - just like with VB, how long will that last? I've been a full-time stock producer for 30 years and it's quite a merry-go-round - but I've always managed to make a good living.

cobalt · « **Reply #13 on:** May 15, 2016, 07:31 »

The 50 cents a month rent price for all downloads, is what pond5 said publicly.

So what else are people going to believe??

Contributors can only discuss what the agency and the participating contributors tell them.

If there is more to the deal and contributors get additional income depending on sales, it will change the discussion.

But you can´t blame contributors if pond5 spreads misinformation about their new project.

The fact remains, that the membership program is a "6 dollar per download" club and that is what will affect sales behaviour and has all non participating contributors rightly worried about an abrupt crash in stock video.

Again, the concept of renting content per se, I think that can be interesting if it is done well. But with all the other abrupt changes, 100% rejections, widespread reported drop in downloads, the new "impress our employees policy" etc...it is just one more abrupt bizzarre strangeness that makes it feel like the pond5 that we knew has disappeared.

And the old pond5 is hard to replace, it will take time until another agency takes the position of pond5 in the marketplace. But somebody will do it, and for many it is a wake up call to explore more agencies and diversify.

Mantis · « **Reply #14 on:** May 15, 2016, 08:05 »

Quote from: cobalt on May 15, 2016, 07:31

The 50 cents a month rent price for all downloads, is what pond5 said publicly.

So what else are people going to believe??

Contributors can only discuss what the agency and the participating contributors tell them.

If there is more to the deal and contributors get additional income depending on sales, it will change the discussion.

But you can´t blame contributors if pond5 spreads misinformation about their new project.

The fact remains, that the membership program is a "6 dollar per download" club and that is what will affect sales behaviour and has all non participating contributors rightly worried about an abrupt crash in stock video.

Again, the concept of renting content per se, I think that can be interesting if it is done well. But with all the other abrupt changes, [b]100% rejections, widespread reported drop in downloads,[/b] the new "impress our employees policy" etc...it is just one more abrupt bizzarre strangeness that makes it feel like the pond5 that we knew has disappeared.

And the old pond5 is hard to replace, it will take time until another agency takes the position of pond5 in the marketplace. But somebody will do it, and for many it is a wake up call to explore more agencies and diversify.

Good post, Cobalt. Key points above really are the crux of today's gap. I was doing okay on P5 prior to the changes, roughly $400 a month (my cut) and now it's $100 to $25. I did manage to get a 4k sale last week, and that made my $100. Otherwise, I am another contributor who is feeling the video pain and have been told to up my game by P5. Well, like most, I don't produce broadcast quality, I am not a Motion expert to create my own animations, I don't have access to aerial other than investing in a drone and learning that angle, I don't have expensive sliders, pan/tilts, etc. and I doubt 95% of "regular contributors"do either. Based on that recipe, P5 is going to be a main player in killing the video market as it will likely trigger a competitive response from others like SS. They are essentially using a back door pricing scheme that cheapens the ENTIRE MARKET. Pay contributors a "fee"(which financially makes them happy) and sell to customers for $6. The $6 thing is the root of all evil as it will echo across all video markets due to the high quality of the clips in that collection. So, in the main collection, why on earth would a client pay $6 for a nice broadcast clip and then need a shot of waves rolling up on a beach but the one they want is in the main "cheap quality"collection for $79? That's the gap that will contribute to further industry erosion.

Brightontl · « **Reply #15 on:** May 15, 2016, 08:12 »

Quote from: Pablito on May 15, 2016, 03:45

<<<At the moment apparently all customers are buying clips in the bloody membership area of p5 and those sale don't generate any royalties for artists (just half a peanut a month for clip, regardless of the amount of downloads).>>>

Just for accuracy's sake - it isn't 'regardless of amount of downloads'. There is another facet to the "deal" but it's up to P5 to tell none-participating contributors the facts - not me.

I'm not advocating for or against the "deal" I'm just advocating accuracy; which seems to be the first casualty on the forum.

Having said all that you have made a reasonable resume of the situation; except that some people are doing very well from the scheme - there are always going to be winners and losers. The winners in this case - so far -are the bigger producers who have put the most effort and money in to making quality video. How long this situation will last - who knows - just like with VB, how long will that last? I've been a full-time stock producer for 30 years and it's quite a merry-go-round - but I've always managed to make a good living.

You are right. I cannot be accurate on the subject, because we only know what goes around the forum and apparently nobody knows exactly what the p5 deal consists of.
Maybe partecipating artists know things that we don't know.
Another thing that has been said is that partecipating artists will have their clips pushed up in the search engine.
Actually the very few people reporting decent sales are people with files in the membership area.
At the same time they are apparently rejecting a huge quantity of new clips from non-partecipating artist, although I must admit that my last batch of about 100 file was totally accepted, even though I am not partecipating

Brightontl · « **Reply #16 on:** May 15, 2016, 08:24 »

Quote from: Mantis on May 15, 2016, 08:05

Quote from: cobalt on May 15, 2016, 07:31
The 50 cents a month rent price for all downloads, is what pond5 said publicly.

So what else are people going to believe??

Contributors can only discuss what the agency and the participating contributors tell them.

If there is more to the deal and contributors get additional income depending on sales, it will change the discussion.

But you can´t blame contributors if pond5 spreads misinformation about their new project.

The fact remains, that the membership program is a "6 dollar per download" club and that is what will affect sales behaviour and has all non participating contributors rightly worried about an abrupt crash in stock video.

Again, the concept of renting content per se, I think that can be interesting if it is done well. But with all the other abrupt changes, [b]100% rejections, widespread reported drop in downloads,[/b] the new "impress our employees policy" etc...it is just one more abrupt bizzarre strangeness that makes it feel like the pond5 that we knew has disappeared.

And the old pond5 is hard to replace, it will take time until another agency takes the position of pond5 in the marketplace. But somebody will do it, and for many it is a wake up call to explore more agencies and diversify.

Good post, Cobalt. Key points above really are the crux of today's gap. I was doing okay on P5 prior to the changes, roughly $400 a month (my cut) and now it's $100 to $25. I did manage to get a 4k sale last week, and that made my $100. Otherwise, I am another contributor who is feeling the video pain and have been told to up my game by P5. Well, like most, I don't produce broadcast quality, I am not a Motion expert to create my own animations, I don't have access to aerial other than investing in a drone and learning that angle, I don't have expensive sliders, pan/tilts, etc. and I doubt 95% of "regular contributors"do either. Based on that recipe, P5 is going to be a main player in killing the video market as it will likely trigger a competitive response from others like SS. They are essentially using a back door pricing scheme that cheapens the ENTIRE MARKET. Pay contributors a "fee"(which financially makes them happy) and sell to customers for $6. The $6 thing is the root of all evil as it will echo across all video markets due to the high quality of the clips in that collection. So, in the main collection, why on earth would a client pay $6 for a nice broadcast clip and then need a shot of waves rolling up on a beach but the one they want is in the main "cheap quality"collection for $79? That's the gap that will contribute to further industry erosion.

Mantis, you have resumed the situation in a better way than me.
The big part of the video stock market would have eventually gone down in prices in a few years to single digit per clip, but it is way to soon for this to happen.
Most customers are still very happy to pay the $70-80 per HD file which was more or less the market price, until this bloody p5 membership murder.
Videoblock tried something like this, but it was never a serious threat, because their clips in the membership area are mostly a joke.
The p5 marketplace is another kettle of fish: the played a very shroud move. They selected 200.000 very good clips covering most subjects and can cater for the needs of most buyers.
The sales in the marketplace area are now totally dead for non-partecipating artist, while the ones who have clips in the marketplace are kept happy, since they have been pushed up in the search. Other artists are clearly being shown the door, as we can see by their new approuval policy
In other words p5 has made $6 per clip the new standard price in the industry and has become a closed clubs for a few artists who have clip in the membership

Brightontl · « **Reply #17 on:** May 15, 2016, 08:28 »

Of course I am not saying that p5 has not the right to do something like this. Who said that life should be fair?
What I mean is that this memberhip thing seriously risks to kill the footage market for good and that the artists and the other agencies must wake up and react very, very fast.
The only way to survive is to kill p5 as soon as possible

helloitsme · « **Reply #18 on:** May 15, 2016, 08:40 »

All contributors should withdraw clips from P5 membership program. It just isn't good for us.

Brightontl · « **Reply #19 on:** May 15, 2016, 08:49 »

Quote from: helloitsme on May 15, 2016, 08:40

All contributors should withdraw clips from P5 membership program. It just isn't good for us.

100% agree with this. It is the only way to save the market for footage.
The problem is that p5 is treating partecipationg contributors extremely well: they have been pushed up in the search engine (so they are the only ones who actually sell clips) and they are the only ones who get their clips accepted

odesigns · « **Reply #20 on:** May 15, 2016, 08:54 »

I participate in the membership program. Out of my roughly 7,000 clips, 1,452 are in the membership collection.

I have no idea at this point how those clips are performing since Pond5 has yet to tell us, but it does give me $729 per month, which is a nice constant so rare in this business.

My March sales were surprisingly low, but in April and so far in May, I'm doing well.

People say that the membership is hurting regular sales, but I don't see it. In May so far, over 35% of my regular sales are clips of mine that are in the membership collection. So, I don't think memberships are hurting regular sales, at least for me.

Remember, users in the membership only can download either 5 or 10 clips per month, and ONLY from a small pool of clips (200,000). It's not unlimited. After their allotment, they have to buy clips just like everyone else, but at a 10% discount which may be a nice incentive for them to continue to buy even after their membership benefit is done for the month.

Pablito · « **Reply #21 on:** May 15, 2016, 09:03 »

The 50 cents a month rent price for all downloads, is what pond5 said publicly.

That statement is not actually 100% correct - it's close but no cigar.

Contributors can only discuss what the agency and the participating contributors tell them[/color].

It's a pity contributors are discussing - quite vehemently - without the full facts.

If there is more to the deal and contributors get additional income depending on sales, it will change the discussion[/color].

It would, but things haven't panned out yet so it's not yet a game changer that's missing - just accuracy and knowledge of all the possibilities.

But you can´t blame contributors if pond5 spreads misinformation about their new project[/color].

People, even those who've signed the membership agreement, haven't bothered to read it properly. P5, to my knowledge, have not spread any misinformation. Just ask the people who've given you the information, to have another read of their contract and this time to pay attention. As I say, this is not - yet anyway - much of a game changer but it is a facet that the screamers on the forums haven't paid any attention to.

The fact remains, that the membership program is a "6 dollar per download" club and that is what will affect sales behaviour and has all non participating contributors rightly worried about an abrupt crash in stock video[/color].

Sure does and it has changed things, and redistributed money.
I was there before, during and after the good times of the stills - it will be the same with video: only the time-spans will be much, much shorter.
The good times of video are still here right now - obviously not by the guys who post on the forum but certainly by some who don't. Next year - who knows. Could this membership scheme have hastened undesirable effects in the marketplace? I would tend to say probably and feel for the guys whose sales have plummeted - it was abrupt and brutal.

The membership scheme has indeed affected sales but I am still getting plenty of full sales from videos that are in the scheme - I'm pleased about that and surprised.

But with all the other abrupt changes, 100% rejections, widespread reported drop in downloads, the new "impress our employees policy" etc...it is just one more abrupt bizzarre strangeness that makes it feel like the pond5 that we knew has disappeared[/color].

That's for sure. I think some of the rejections I've read about have been bizarre - but - can all these contributors look themselves in the mirror and say "All the clips I submitted were well shot, stabilized, without unnecessary similars, properly color-balanced, exposed and focused in the correct place, saleable subjects shot better than present library ones, safe colors, good quality without artifacts and uprezzing and from a camera sensor that's capable, etc, etc.

And the old pond5 is hard to replace, it will take time until another agency takes the position of pond5 in the marketplace. But somebody will do it, and for many it is a wake up call to explore more agencies and diversify[/color].

This has happened since time immemorial in stock photography - you need to develop strong business strategies.
Diversification should be done at the beginning of ones career not as a late crisis management. This is a business after all - adapt or die; that goes for quality of videos and selling strategies.

Brightontl · « **Reply #22 on:** May 15, 2016, 10:22 »

Quote from: odesigns on May 15, 2016, 08:54

I participate in the membership program. Out of my roughly 7,000 clips, 1,452 are in the membership collection.

I have no idea at this point how those clips are performing since Pond5 has yet to tell us, but it does give me $729 per month, which is a nice constant so rare in this business.

My March sales were surprisingly low, but in April and so far in May, I'm doing well.

People say that the membership is hurting regular sales, but I don't see it. In May so far, over 35% of my regular sales are clips of mine that are in the membership collection. So, I don't think memberships are hurting regular sales, at least for me.

Remember, users in the membership only can download either 5 or 10 clips per month, and ONLY from a small pool of clips (200,000). It's not unlimited. After their allotment, they have to buy clips just like everyone else, but at a 10% discount which may be a nice incentive for them to continue to buy even after their membership benefit is done for the month.

As we said above, the only people who are experiencing sales are the one partecipating to the program, because p5 push them up in the search engine.
But is it going to last? Once customers will start getting used to membership prices (around $6-7 per clip) I don't see many reason to shop outside of it.
You say they can only they can only download 5-10 clips per month, but if they need more, they can obviously get a second subscription

Firewall · « **Reply #23 on:** May 15, 2016, 10:53 »

Quote from: Pablito on May 15, 2016, 09:03

The 50 cents a month rent price for all downloads, is what pond5 said publicly.

That statement is not actually 100% correct - it's close but no cigar.

Contributors can only discuss what the agency and the participating contributors tell them[/color].

It's a pity contributors are discussing - quite vehemently - without the full facts.

If there is more to the deal and contributors get additional income depending on sales, it will change the discussion[/color].

It would, but things haven't panned out yet so it's not yet a game changer that's missing - just accuracy and knowledge of all the possibilities.

But you can´t blame contributors if pond5 spreads misinformation about their new project[/color].

People, even those who've signed the membership agreement, haven't bothered to read it properly. P5, to my knowledge, have not spread any misinformation. Just ask the people who've given you the information, to have another read of their contract and this time to pay attention. As I say, this is not - yet anyway - much of a game changer but it is a facet that the screamers on the forums haven't paid any attention to.

The fact remains, that the membership program is a "6 dollar per download" club and that is what will affect sales behaviour and has all non participating contributors rightly worried about an abrupt crash in stock video[/color].

Sure does and it has changed things, and redistributed money.
I was there before, during and after the good times of the stills - it will be the same with video: only the time-spans will be much, much shorter.
The good times of video are still here right now - obviously not by the guys who post on the forum but certainly by some who don't. Next year - who knows. Could this membership scheme have hastened undesirable effects in the marketplace? I would tend to say probably and feel for the guys whose sales have plummeted - it was abrupt and brutal.

The membership scheme has indeed affected sales but I am still getting plenty of full sales from videos that are in the scheme - I'm pleased about that and surprised.

But with all the other abrupt changes, 100% rejections, widespread reported drop in downloads, the new "impress our employees policy" etc...it is just one more abrupt bizzarre strangeness that makes it feel like the pond5 that we knew has disappeared[/color].

That's for sure. I think some of the rejections I've read about have been bizarre - but - can all these contributors look themselves in the mirror and say "All the clips I submitted were well shot, stabilized, without unnecessary similars, properly color-balanced, exposed and focused in the correct place, saleable subjects shot better than present library ones, safe colors, good quality without artifacts and uprezzing and from a camera sensor that's capable, etc, etc.

And the old pond5 is hard to replace, it will take time until another agency takes the position of pond5 in the marketplace. But somebody will do it, and for many it is a wake up call to explore more agencies and diversify[/color].

This has happened since time immemorial in stock photography - you need to develop strong business strategies.
Diversification should be done at the beginning of ones career not as a late crisis management. This is a business after all - adapt or die; that goes for quality of videos and selling strategies.

Of course P5 can do whatever they want, I got paid out today and it might well be the last, I won't submit to them anymore.
If they reject an award winning image (as a test) for noise and saying I should consider getting a camera with a better quality sensor I know they are not taking contributors seriously. Btw the image was taken with a Nikon D810 at ISO64 during bright daylight.

PeterChigmaroff · « **Reply #24 on:** May 15, 2016, 11:30 »

Quote from: Brightontl on May 14, 2016, 02:30

The only way forward now is to hope that other agencies will start selling footage at $5 for each clip and hope that this will kill pond 5

You've got to be kidding?

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Author Topic: Anybody participating Pond5 membership program? If so, how's revenue? (Read 35169 times)

helloitsme

helloitsme

Brightontl

sharpshot

Pablito

cobalt

SquirrelPower

Pablito

ShadySue

thepokergod

Brightontl

Brightontl

Pablito

cobalt

Mantis

Brightontl

Brightontl

Brightontl

helloitsme

Brightontl

odesigns

Pablito

Brightontl

Firewall

PeterChigmaroff

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