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Author Topic: Interlaced or Progressive for stock video  (Read 11027 times)

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« on: May 28, 2008, 03:00 »
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What do you recommend shooting?

I have searched a bit for info and some people on the istock boards suggested that shooting in progressive is better than interlaced since it was easier to get from p -> i as apposed to i -> p

Perhaps another argument is that lots of the video content purchased on the net will be used on the net which would then need to be progessive video (as far as i understand)

any other opinions on how to choose.
both would be HDV at either 1080i or 1080p - shot on a canon hv30


« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2008, 05:28 »
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I'm pretty new at video too, so this is by no means expert or even experienced advice. I shoot with a Canon HV20 - decided I'd rather save the $$$ than go for the extra bling on the 30 ;) Anyway, here's my limited experience speaking: so far the only clips I've sold have been time-lapse 1080p put together from images shot with my DSLR ... heh heh.

But I've been experimenting with the HV20, Sony Vegas 8 Platinum, HDVSplit, MPEGStreamClip, 24p, and all that. Here are my limited observations so far. 1080i is the easiest / most straightforward workflow hands down. No matter what you set your camera to, you're going to transfer a 1080i stream to your computer. If you want to get 1080p or 720p you have to go through more hassles no matter which way you look at it. So I think you're stuck with the question i only or i and i -> p.

That said, removing pulldown is not as hard as everybody makes it out to be. Lots of tutorials and free tools people have put together to get the true 24/30p out of the 1080i stream. It's an extra workflow step, but can practically be automated.

I'm playing with both. I'm doubtful that either format would impact sales too much (someone with data please correct me if this is a bad assumption). The buyers can always convert to p if they need to. But I don't know how much quality would suffer going from p -> i. Also, the codecs like MJPEG B used on interlaced, when done right, will not show the interlacing effect even on progressive screens (I think that's right... hopefully I'm not just basing this on deinterlacing my memory-example without realizing it).

I find that this workflow works great for me for most clips (not even touching Vegas unless I'm doing something fancy or adding color / contrast / brightness corrections):
1 - Import from camera to .m2t using HDVSplit
2 - Review and trim in MPEGStreamClip saving clips as .ts
3 - [only on 24p clips] running .ts through tools to remove pulldown to .avi
4 - [only on 24p clips] final cuts in Vegas and render as 720p Photo JPEG .mov
5 - Render 1080i MJPEG B .mov using MPEGStreamClip
6 - Upload .mov
7 - Archive .ts

Hope that helps. Any other questions, just fire away. The video world is much more complicated / mystifying / learning curved than the photo world (which is no picnic either). One gotcha if you're looking at software: I LOVE Vegas Platinum, especially for the price... but it cannot render 1920x1080 - it's limited to 1440x1080 max so as to give Vegas Pro something else to distinguish itself.

All the best,
Andrew

« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2008, 06:59 »
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thanks,

well i have allready bought the hv30 so it is too late :)

It shoots in both 1080i or 1080p, so i don't think i would have to convert anything if i shot in 1080p - i can just import it direct.

« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2008, 07:29 »
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may I ask which one you choose leaf ,PAL or NTSC?
I am also planning to get a hv20 or hv30 soon actually I am so looking forward to it.

« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2008, 07:35 »
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I ended up with ntsc because the pal was quite a bit more expensive and shot 25 fps while ntsc shot at 30fps

Since it is an HDV camera that shoots in 1080i resolution there is no differance between the resolution of pal or ntsc like there would be with regular video standards... so i thought 30 fps is better than 25 ... unless this is a flawed argument.

this thread also has some helpful info
http://www.microstockgroup.com/index.php/topic,4339.0.html
dbajurin was rather helpful in making a decision.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2008, 07:37 by leaf »

« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2008, 07:43 »
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thank you very much Leaf  that helped a lot with my decision, I am very likely to go for NTSC too

« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2008, 14:01 »
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Wouldn't shooting progressive give a little more flexibility in choosing exposure settings? 1080i is 60(half)fps or a minimum shutter speed of 1/60 whereas 1080p is 30fps or 1/30. Might be useful in lower light.

I'm no expert, and I don't know the intricacies of the HV30 ( I use the HV10 which doesn't offer 1080p), but just thought this might be significant in some situations.

« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2008, 15:03 »
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thanks,

well i have allready bought the hv30 so it is too late :)

It shoots in both 1080i or 1080p, so i don't think i would have to convert anything if i shot in 1080p - i can just import it direct.

well, you are probably better off then - that's fantastic that you have the option to shoot 1080p. so the captured .m2t is already progressive when imported straight from the camera? see - that's the problem with making a big purchase before knowing very much about a new field, no matter how many reviews you read ahead of time. that's what i get for trying to save a few bucks. oh well, i'll make do.

the other thing that is probably most important but hasn't really been discussed yet - won't it depend on the overall look you want? i guess it's not such of an issue since you have 30p (versus 24p) available, but it might give your footage an overall different look depending on what you capture in... of course, my eyes probably would never know the difference. maybe something to consider though.

« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2008, 15:24 »
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the HV30 can also capture in 24p if you want... it is called 'movie mode'

« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2008, 22:14 »
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Well, let us know what you end up doing. I checked out that other thread you mentioned and  completely understand what you meant by this:
I have read quite a few forum postings here and there on the internet and one guy says one thing then another says he is all wrong, and then another says the other guy is all wrong and it goes in circles. 

I've had the same experience, and in the end, I've found that I just have to try things and figure them out for myself. So, maybe that's what you should do. Shoot in 30p and see what you get. Then try the same subject in 1080i and see what you get. Run both sets of footage through the complete process to the final encoded clip and compare the results. Obviously the interlaced footage will show interlacing on a progressive (LCD) screen. But I'm talking about comparing workflows, processes, methods... what's easier, etc. I think the ultimate goal is to have a streamlined post-process that takes minimal time and has maximum return on effort. Buyers can always convert as they need to (and will often have better / more expensive tools to do so than we will).

Let us know what you come up with. I'm still confused about what you mean when you say the HV30 can shoot in 1080p. From what I've read, the only difference between the HV20/30 is that you get 30 progressive frames rather than 24 but they're still both embedded in the 1080i HDV stream on the tape. And will still require extra steps to remove the progressive footage out of the interlaced stream. Don't want to split hairs though, I just don't want you to expect to export from tape directly to a progressive file because I think you will be disappointed.

I had to work out a workflow by trial and error, so I'd love to hear what you come up with for yourself - maybe things I haven't thought of or considered before.

That other thread started with the questions: are there few videographers here and is there $$ to be made in stock footage? My personal opinion is that the stock photo side is near or at saturation. Only the best of the best with massive portfolios will continue to thrive. But stock footage could be a new frontier. Maybe a new bubble to ride? We'll see. I definitely think it's the future.

Not to mention audio ... there's another area with potential.

« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2008, 02:18 »
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well i know so little about video it is hard to make a sound argument but i think i will be able to transfer progressive video directly from the camera to the computer.  They advertise this as a benefit with the hv30 for online use like youtube etc.  If it was a lot of work to get from 1080i to 1080p then it wouldn't be very user friendly for the youtubers.... but in reality i have no idea.

Adobe Premier should be coming in the mail in the next day or two so I can tell you when i am able to edit some footage.

« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2008, 04:19 »
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Congratulation Leaf on your new HV30!
Istock accepting only 1080i, so I think there is just one option to shot  ;)
If you shot progressive you will have to downsize to 720p to be accepted.

« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2008, 04:32 »
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« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2008, 04:54 »
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Well, it happend to everyone for a mind black out. I am reading this post and switching 1080 to 720 in my mind???. I have to sleep a little! (All day and night keywording new images, that is a good reason for a black out)
Btw, all my animations are HD1080 progressive.  ;D
So, it is time to go to sleep and rest my mind cells.

« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2014, 07:43 »
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Progressive is the far better option, thinking years down the track, interlaced footage will most likely phase out.


 

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