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Author Topic: Pond5 removing 4k pricing  (Read 3459 times)

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« on: February 07, 2019, 12:56 »
+2
Remember when Pond5 had different pricing for 4k and 1080? Not anymore! They just cut the prices of more than half of our portfolios for 4k footage. This "test" which nobody was informed about is a brilliant way for them to help us make more money by giving our footage away. Told yall it was a race to the bottom. JFC.


« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2019, 13:19 »
+1
I just did some random searches and there are a ton of high priced 4k clips. Perhaps it is a test with only a subset of artists. None of my clips have suffered any price changes....yet anyway.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 13:22 by Mantis »

« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2019, 13:22 »
0
Check your portfolio. Over half of my 1000 clips have been repriced. If they want to sell our footage for a cheap price then I am going to start mass producing low quality clips. And they said 10,000 clips in a year is impossible.

« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2019, 13:29 »
0
That's incredibly disheartening if true. It should have been communicated to users first and they should be given an option to opt out.

I'm not a Pond 5 contributor but I thought one of their pitches was allowing contributors to set their own prices. Am I thinking of someone else?

« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2019, 13:33 »
0
You are correct. They allow us to set our own prices but then introduced "Web pricing" as a way to undercut the competition. I love how they call this a test but our clips are all being sold at a massive discount. The only way to circumvent this is to manually adjust all of our prices....again. I seriously hope a new player emerges in the market that pays us what Shutterstock used to pay us. Eventually, people will be uploading their content via Instagram and the stock game will be over at that point.

« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2019, 13:43 »
0
I don't want to sound like Gampa Old Timey (too late) but back in the day of film (stills and video) the agencies felt like agencies - you know - that repped talent and tried to get them the highest prices.

Then royalty free came along and cheap(er) automated gear, along with higher digital demand, and, as I'm sure any economist would say was obvious, for a large chunk of the market our work product (and we) became a commodity like soy beans.

I'm not surprised and am all for free markets but like you I suspect we need to make sure we price ourselves in a way that values our work.

« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2019, 13:51 »
0
I've heard that before, the good ol days of stock footage. Now my 6 hours of work to produce one hyperlapse is worth $70 according to them. I have colleagues that would sell clips for $4000 + a decade ago if it was exclusive.

They want quickly produced garbage, that's what I'm about to give them. I just picked up a DJI pocket Osmo and will be shooting everything stupid little thing I can find just to saturate the market with the garbage they apparently want.

« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2019, 14:09 »
0
We sold footage on a cost per second basis, with a 10 second minimum per cut, limited license (not royalty free).

Stills were sold based on usage. What is essentially a royalty free license today would almost be a buy out back then (no copyright transfer though) but the fee would be enough to turn you into royalty.  :(

It sounds like you are a passionate creator. I hope you don't stop trying hard to produce great material simply to survive.

« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2019, 14:10 »
0
Well, I've just checked my online files.
For sure something has happened: not only 4K but it seems that almost all my clips has been repriced to different levels, sometimes with just 0,50$ less than price I've set

What's...  ???
Are they started a new model in which they judge the right price for every single clip?
I don't understand, really...

« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2019, 14:18 »
+3
This is crazy. So I have to constantly go back to check and manually change my prices?

The whole point of pond5 was the freedom for artists. That is why they often get content first and some artists only sell on pond5.

« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2019, 17:37 »
+4
Yes. Crazy. Hundred of my files have been priced down.....Mad  >:(

« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2019, 20:51 »
+4
Here is a post from an admin on P5.


gregp5 2019-02-06 09:47
Hey guys,

As you've noticed, we are running a pricing test on 4K content with the goal of maximizing revenue for our Artists. This test effects a subset of 4K content on Pond5.

As we mentioned over the summer during our Web Resolution test, we feel it is our obligation to regularly test different ways to increase your earnings. We are, in fact, always testing something, be it price points, shopping cart features, homepage experience, etc. Some of these tests are more noticeable than others.

Our testing is always intensely methodical and designed not to cannibalize existing sales. At the same time, if we do not test, we cannot grow. We want to make recommendations to you based on data, not guesswork. This test is designed to zero in on the optimal price point for 4K, relative to HD (which is what most buyers purchase). The goal is to drive the most total revenue to you, the artist. We're very excited to see how it goes and, just like our last price test, will be sharing our findings with the community so that everyone can benefit.

For more info about the specific parameters of this test, please email us directly at support@pond5.com

Thanks!

They sure went about this the wrong way by forcing artists into the test without their permission. Moreover, once the test is done will Pond 5 reset the clips to their original prices? The post reads as if they are doing this to ultimately RECOMMEND to artists and not necessarily dictate. Wishe they would come in here to clarify.

« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2019, 21:05 »
+5
I changed all my prices back to normal.  Wish they would provide a permanent opt out for their price experiments. 

« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2019, 21:13 »
+9
Love how they keep repeating how this is going to mean more revenue for contributors. Do they really think people are that stupid? Maybe if they say it enough times in one email, it will come true.  ???

« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2019, 22:36 »
+2
Love how they keep repeating how this is going to mean more revenue for contributors. Do they really think people are that stupid? Maybe if they say it enough times in one email, it will come true.  ???

I am mostly constantly surprised by how little people on this group seem to understand marketing and economics.  Costco sells for far less than their competition, but who makes the most money?

I had one of my first businesses back in the 1970's.  I experimented with pricing, as any decent growing business will do.  I sent out mailings (in those days, catalogs were sent by US Mail to potential consumers).  Some with higher prices, some with lower prices. Some where some prices were higher but others lower, trying to determine the optimum price for different lines of products.

In my case, I discovered that if I dropped my prices by roughly 15% that my sales volume went up almost 30%, and I had more money in the bank at the end of each quarter (though I had to hire a couple extra people to handle the increased volume, which was of course, factored into the analysis).

OTOH, I had a photographic art print show in town recently (ended a month ago).  I experimented there and had a few prints at a lower price.  I had fully expected those would be the big sellers. To my surprise, my highest priced prints ($600) sold out, while my cheapest prints ($295) did not sell at all. 

mmmm.... That still surprises me, but that is part of the point -- without testing, you will never know what the optimum price point is.  Sometimes lowering a price will increase the volume enough to produce higher dollars in your pocket, sometimes not.  When dealing with widgets that must be manufactured (or even prints that cost me money to make and frame) then you have to consider cost of production of each additional widget in the analysis.  Where there is zero incremental cost in production though (as with digital media), then sometimes the per-unit price seems uncomfortably low.

Of course, you can always keep the price really, really high. That lets you gloat when you make one single sale.  But then I would personally prefer selling at half that price if I can then sell it 10 times...

« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2019, 22:59 »
+4
Love how they keep repeating how this is going to mean more revenue for contributors. Do they really think people are that stupid? Maybe if they say it enough times in one email, it will come true.  ???

I am mostly constantly surprised by how little people on this group seem to understand marketing and economics.  Costco sells for far less than their competition, but who makes the most money?

I had one of my first businesses back in the 1970's.  I experimented with pricing, as any decent growing business will do.  I sent out mailings (in those days, catalogs were sent by US Mail to potential consumers).  Some with higher prices, some with lower prices. Some where some prices were higher but others lower, trying to determine the optimum price for different lines of products.

In my case, I discovered that if I dropped my prices by roughly 15% that my sales volume went up almost 30%, and I had more money in the bank at the end of each quarter (though I had to hire a couple extra people to handle the increased volume, which was of course, factored into the analysis).

OTOH, I had a photographic art print show in town recently (ended a month ago).  I experimented there and had a few prints at a lower price.  I had fully expected those would be the big sellers. To my surprise, my highest priced prints ($600) sold out, while my cheapest prints ($295) did not sell at all. 

mmmm.... That still surprises me, but that is part of the point -- without testing, you will never know what the optimum price point is.  Sometimes lowering a price will increase the volume enough to produce higher dollars in your pocket, sometimes not.  When dealing with widgets that must be manufactured (or even prints that cost me money to make and frame) then you have to consider cost of production of each additional widget in the analysis.  Where there is zero incremental cost in production though (as with digital media), then sometimes the per-unit price seems uncomfortably low.

Of course, you can always keep the price really, really high. That lets you gloat when you make one single sale.  But then I would personally prefer selling at half that price if I can then sell it 10 times...

Good points but they should recruit beta testers.  Surprises are unnecessary and distract from content creation. 

« Last Edit: February 07, 2019, 23:02 by trek »

« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2019, 23:00 »
+7
I have files that are ultracheap and some that are expensive.

People make their own decisions and that is the way it should be.

If you want to offer all your files at a flat cheap rate...go ahead...nobody is stopping you.

There are many people on pond5 who do that.

And others set their prices really high and are fine with that.

But if you want ultracheap...just avoid pond5 and send them to getty to enjoy sales for 68 cents...

« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2019, 00:39 »
+1
Good points but they should recruit beta testers.  Surprises are unnecessary and distract from content creation.

Yeah, well in the cases I noted, I was the creator, the marketer, the salesman, and in many cases the order fulfiller (until volume reached a level that I started hiring employees and things took off).  I only had to convince my wife... which was not always as easy as it may seem at first... :)

When a company is selling someone else's product, and changes in price have immediate impact on the producer (us, in the case of stock media), that does not change the way market research works, but it does change the way it should be sold to the producers.

I am very definitely not saying the producers (Pond5 or any other agency I am aware of) does a particularly good job in communicating to the producers (us).  However, I AM saying that the instant knee-jerk wailing and crying that goes on here with every new test makes it very clear that many here would benefit from a Marketing 101 class...

Along that vein, my first degree was a BS in engineering (UC Berkeley, 1972). I then started my first couple companies... and realized quickly that I had no idea how the heck business needed to be run to succeed.  I took a couple of extension courses, where I learned the difference between cash flow and profit (those first couple years my accountant said I was making marvelous profits, but I couldn't pay my employees and honestly didn't know why!).

I went bankrupt in my first really serious company in 1980 (long story not particularly relevant here).  Bummed out, when I became director of Engineering at Motorola in 1982, I had them pay for a MBA program.  I thought I knew most of it, since I had already run a couple companies, but wow, did I learn a lot in that program.  I was surprised, to say the least.  With the bottom line being I went the next 35 years without another business failure, and am now happily (and very comfortably) retired.

« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2019, 06:29 »
+3
video will follow the same path as photo...already a saturated market with a competition to lower price. for me high end video are only those lifestyle or video who cost a lot of money with big production, those will always ask good price and make money, because is really difficult to copy or reproduce...hyperlapse time-lapse video of travel have  zero entry barrier, everybody can buy an Cosmo and do those video and the quality will be enough for many buyers...a sony or gh4 with a handhold stabilizer can be had for 800 dollar used...everybody can study   shoot and edit an hyperlpse in fast time, no rocket science. so for me it's clear that those video son will be ad for , one dollar like the photo or maximum 5 10. is only a matter of time and competition.

« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2019, 08:30 »
+1
No need for a marketing 101 class... we have already taken the BS101 class. Pond5 was marketed as a place to set your own prices. Period. Now they are changing that. It was affecting THEIR bottom line. As was mentioned already, contributors could always set their prices lower if they chose, in accordance with how the site worked. You are blaming contributors for being ignorant about marketing... that isnt what the wailing and crying is about at all.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 09:01 by cathyslife »

« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2019, 08:45 »
+3
Good points but they should recruit beta testers.  Surprises are unnecessary and distract from content creation.

Yeah, well in the cases I noted, I was the creator, the marketer, the salesman, and in many cases the order fulfiller (until volume reached a level that I started hiring employees and things took off).  I only had to convince my wife... which was not always as easy as it may seem at first... :)

When a company is selling someone else's product, and changes in price have immediate impact on the producer (us, in the case of stock media), that does not change the way market research works, but it does change the way it should be sold to the producers.

I am very definitely not saying the producers (Pond5 or any other agency I am aware of) does a particularly good job in communicating to the producers (us).  However, I AM saying that the instant knee-jerk wailing and crying that goes on here with every new test makes it very clear that many here would benefit from a Marketing 101 class...

Along that vein, my first degree was a BS in engineering (UC Berkeley, 1972). I then started my first couple companies... and realized quickly that I had no idea how the heck business needed to be run to succeed.  I took a couple of extension courses, where I learned the difference between cash flow and profit (those first couple years my accountant said I was making marvelous profits, but I couldn't pay my employees and honestly didn't know why!).

I went bankrupt in my first really serious company in 1980 (long story not particularly relevant here).  Bummed out, when I became director of Engineering at Motorola in 1982, I had them pay for a MBA program.  I thought I knew most of it, since I had already run a couple companies, but wow, did I learn a lot in that program.  I was surprised, to say the least.  With the bottom line being I went the next 35 years without another business failure, and am now happily (and very comfortably) retired.

I say SO WHAT? Your argument only holds water if P5, like costco, controlls pricing, which they dont. You are missing the entire point. Pond5 is a SET YOUR OWN PRICE site. Not a controlled pricing site. Costco is a controlled pricing business. There is a big difference. So unless Pond 5 intends to dictate prices like most other sites do, there is no substance to your argument. And the way they snuck clips into this test without informing contributors is shameful. I am relatively certain there is some tiny clause in 5 point font point font in their terms that allows them to do this, but it is certainly came across as deceitful. Who is now responsible for resetting their prices back to the way they were when the test is completed? And all of this testing is for what? To merely recommend a price pojnt to us? They do that today and I ignore that. And I do fine on P5.  They could have very well asked for volunteers but they chose to nab n grab.

In the end, your position is only substantitive if P5 is moving towards forcing fixed pricing on contributors.

« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 08:47 by Mantis »

Uncle Pete

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« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2019, 10:54 »
+2
Love how they keep repeating how this is going to mean more revenue for contributors. Do they really think people are that stupid? Maybe if they say it enough times in one email, it will come true.  ???

Couldn't have said that better myself.

« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2019, 11:18 »
+4
I changed all my prices back as they were before they started to mess with them and let them know in message that I'm not allowing them to change my prices without my knowledge anymore, as they are "set your own price" site, and if they change their terms of use about that they should let us know before doing anything with our prices.


« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2019, 12:10 »
0
Sometimes, my clips are sold higher than my asking price.

Is it an EL sale?



« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2019, 12:41 »
+5
If that's true, they just can't change the price without asking contributors first.  That's totally unacceptable and rude.


 

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