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Author Topic: Shutterstock sales growth year to year not impressive for the last few months.  (Read 13516 times)

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« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2016, 09:37 »
+4
Envato's decision to 1099 us for their portion of sales is why I no longer upload to Envato. 


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« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2016, 12:16 »
0
I've read every single thread on the forums, and asked the same questions there that I'm asking here, and I still can't get a straight answer on how a company claiming that they do or don't do something has any bearing on my obligations as a tax payer. I must be missing something.

I earn X so I report X which means I have to pay X. Why would that be different with Envato as opposed Shutterstock or Fotolia or Pond5, for example?

« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2016, 15:18 »
0
I've read every single thread on the forums, and asked the same questions there that I'm asking here, and I still can't get a straight answer on how a company claiming that they do or don't do something has any bearing on my obligations as a tax payer. I must be missing something.

I earn X so I report X which means I have to pay X. Why would that be different with Envato as opposed Shutterstock or Fotolia or Pond5, for example?

I believe it's the inconvenience of how they report income.  They report the whole sale and you have to then deduct their "fee"on your taxes.  Thus you get 1099'd on a fake amount and have to adjust for it on your taxes. And by the way, they claim to be a marketplace and not an agent.  They take a fee but act as an agency. Crooked.

« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2016, 15:27 »
0
It is a bit of a mess but 1099 forms are only an issue for US authors. In many countries you report what you get into your bank account.

They have individuals making millions (yes, millions) of US dollars there per year so surely if it was that problematic it would be changed. The ones making the most are US authors.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 15:30 by increasingdifficulty »

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« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2016, 21:15 »
0
Right, I think I get it. In the UK you just report what you report, no questions asked. Well, you'll sometimes get audited to check you're not making stuff up and you actually have documented evidence of your income... but it sounds like in the US, everything has to be accounted for. I.e. they match the incomings of one party with the outgoings of another.

I guess it makes sense from a balancing the books kind of thing.

It must get complicated though... I mean how far down does it go? If I have a receipt for a bunch of champagne for entertaining clients, will they then check with the nightclub's tax returns to make sure those bottles were sold at the price I have on the receipt and that the club are paying the right tax on them? Sounds a bit of a pain.

« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2016, 21:33 »
+1
Right, I think I get it. In the UK you just report what you report, no questions asked. Well, you'll sometimes get audited to check you're not making stuff up and you actually have documented evidence of your income... but it sounds like in the US, everything has to be accounted for. I.e. they match the incomings of one party with the outgoings of another.

I guess it makes sense from a balancing the books kind of thing.

It must get complicated though... I mean how far down does it go? If I have a receipt for a bunch of champagne for entertaining clients, will they then check with the nightclub's tax returns to make sure those bottles were sold at the price I have on the receipt and that the club are paying the right tax on them? Sounds a bit of a pain.

Unless there is major bucks involved, they are just verifying your receipts. I just got audited last week and lost.  A 1099 was updated by an agency a while back but they never sent me the new one.  I had to pay 1100 in additional taxes and penalty and interest. This is why the envanto thing is so messed up. The 1099 and the "I wanna have my cake and eat it too" accounting system they have is probably illegal.

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« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2016, 22:58 »
0
Why doesn't somebody just drop a quick email to the IRS and ask them to check if it's all aboveboard?

alno

« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2016, 02:41 »
+1
Why doesn't somebody just drop a quick email to the IRS and ask them to check if it's all aboveboard?

Isn't IRS US only government agency? Even if it's all not aboveboard, Envato is Australian company...

SpaceStockFootage

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« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2016, 03:20 »
0
I think the issue is mainly with the US side of it though... as US authors are having the most trouble with it, and all the withholding tax malarkey is due to the IRS. They are an Australian company, but they've set up in the US, which is where all their sales and payments are now handled... that's why it's subject to withholding tax.

« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2016, 04:56 »
+5
It's just an endless circle of these contributors having no comprehension of why undercutting is so terribly bad for everyone in this business and those with knowledge and experience trying hard to spell it out for them. I've seen it explained in plain English every which way a dozen times, and they still can't figure it out. They think, based on narrow personal experience, that selling for cheap but at volume is a good thing, solely because they make what they feel like is decent money at the moment. But that does not mean it's the right thing to do, nor that it's any good for anyone but whatever vampire company they blindly support. The resistance to having some self respect and respect for everyone else in this business is stunning. They refuse to consider the future or anything beyond the fleeting satisfaction of pennies stacking up to dollars at the expense of cheapening the perceived value of what we do. Meanwhile, completely oblivious to the fact they'd be making more money if they actually listened.

Such deeply flawed logic and a stubborn inability to listen to plain reason will never fail to amaze me.

« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2016, 05:19 »
+1
Maybe they are just dealing with the world as it is rather than they would like it to be?

SpaceStockFootage

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« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2016, 05:22 »
0
So you're saying that removing all of my portfolio from Envato, will result in my sales tripling everywhere else?


« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2016, 05:59 »
+9
So you're saying that removing all of my portfolio from Envato, will result in my sales tripling everywhere else?

This will never happen because too many of you have no self respect, little confidence in what you do, and no understanding of what "value" means, but it's quite simple:

Step 1: Stop bottom feeding and supporting companies that bottom feed and/or take too much %.
Step 2: Perceived value of product increases. Companies that gouge our earnings and bottom feed, fail.
Step 3: Profit.

Maybe they are just dealing with the world as it is rather than they would like it to be?

They are helping perpetuate a world of devaluing our collective products and encouraging low contributor %. Those of us that live in a world where food, housing, etc. needs to be paid for with real money understand why it's crucial to retain value in our work. You all must rely on someone else for financial support, have little experience with actual physical work, and probably also don't believe movies and music have any value because you can download them for free on a torrent. Is any of this making sense yet? Of course it isn't.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 06:11 by Daryl Ray »

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« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2016, 06:21 »
0
Maybe it would strengthen your argument if you didn't make sweeping generalisations regarding people you know nothing about. 

« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2016, 06:38 »
+3
Maybe it would strengthen your argument if you didn't make sweeping generalisations regarding people you know nothing about.

The fact that you have nothing of substance to say, only to criticize my approach, strengthens my argument. My statements are based off what you have openly revealed: That you don't care about anything but the short term return on cheaply priced product. It's only logical to deduct that someone without understanding of the value of their own work, or digital content in general, has a lack of a sense of personal responsibility and experience in the world.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 06:41 by Daryl Ray »

alno

« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2016, 06:45 »
0

This will never happen because too many of you have no self respect, little confidence in what you do, and no understanding of what "value" means


Living in a country full of pricey lawers and having fourteen digit external debt is not the same to having self respect and knowing what "value" means.

« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2016, 07:39 »
+4
It's the "tragedy of the commons". You can make more money by selling dirt cheap because you clean up on volume. But when everyone does it you have no more volume. The sales are divided between too many people and any growth in the market never makes up for it. We have seen it over and over again.

The problem is that for the first few people that get in there early they could make more money than they would otherwise, especially if their content isn't able to compete with everyone else at a higher price. The pain is suffered by everyone, the benefit only by a few. It's something like a pyramid scheme in that way.

« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2016, 07:43 »
0
So you're saying that removing all of my portfolio from Envato, will result in my sales tripling everywhere else?

This will never happen because too many of you have no self respect, little confidence in what you do, and no understanding of what "value" means, but it's quite simple:

Step 1: Stop bottom feeding and supporting companies that bottom feed and/or take too much %.
Step 2: Perceived value of product increases. Companies that gouge our earnings and bottom feed, fail.
Step 3: Profit.

Maybe they are just dealing with the world as it is rather than they would like it to be?

They are helping perpetuate a world of devaluing our collective products and encouraging low contributor %. Those of us that live in a world where food, housing, etc. needs to be paid for with real money understand why it's crucial to retain value in our work. You all must rely on someone else for financial support, have little experience with actual physical work, and probably also don't believe movies and music have any value because you can download them for free on a torrent. Is any of this making sense yet? Of course it isn't.

I agree with everything you say, and only submit to 2 agencies now. Not they are not bottom-feeders, because they ALL are, unless one submits to macro agencies. But since this is a microstock forum, I will assume we are only talking about microstock agencies.

Even though I agree with what you say, unfortunately microstock is a global entity. I personally am in a position to choose who I deal with because photography was never my main career. But some here do sell photography as their livelihood, so they are in a different position. And because microstock is global, a dollar to me means something quite different than a dollar to someone living in another country.

Though I know exactly what you are saying, and would be behind you 100% if we were only talking about photographers in the US (or whatever country one chooses to talk about), we are not. Don't blame the photographers, blame the internet for allowing everybody and their brother to compete as though everything were equal and the standard of living was exactly the same everywhere. It is a double-edged sword though...limit sales to just one country, and contributors won't have the benefit of a global market. The idea that a person living in India or another country is happy to sell for pennies an image does not help me at all, living in the US. That isn't the photographer living in India's fault for taking the pennies, they are just trying to make a living too, but it ruins my business all the same.

Microstock isn't the only business that this has happened to, either. Freelance writers, graphic designers, programmers, music, and even the online retail industry are having the same problems. I have had the feeling for years now that the US is headed towards becoming a third world country. The wealth will be with about 10% of the population, and the other 90% will be lucky to put food on the table. But that is another topic, not for discussion here.

« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2016, 08:05 »
0
So you're saying that removing all of my portfolio from Envato, will result in my sales tripling everywhere else?

This will never happen because too many of you have no self respect, little confidence in what you do, and no understanding of what "value" means, but it's quite simple:

Step 1: Stop bottom feeding and supporting companies that bottom feed and/or take too much %.
Step 2: Perceived value of product increases. Companies that gouge our earnings and bottom feed, fail.
Step 3: Profit.

Maybe they are just dealing with the world as it is rather than they would like it to be?

They are helping perpetuate a world of devaluing our collective products and encouraging low contributor %. Those of us that live in a world where food, housing, etc. needs to be paid for with real money understand why it's crucial to retain value in our work. You all must rely on someone else for financial support, have little experience with actual physical work, and probably also don't believe movies and music have any value because you can download them for free on a torrent. Is any of this making sense yet? Of course it isn't.
The "value" of anything is what people are prepared to pay for something no more no less. What you propose is just not going to happen, as you seem to say yourself, just look at how many times its been debated over and over and not just in respect of digital images. Just because I observe something to be true doesn't mean I agree with it morally but the fact is the Microstock Industry is close to a "perfect" model of capitalism - supply outstrips demand and the consequence is falling prices.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 08:10 by Pauws99 »

« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2016, 08:33 »
0
"Microstock isn't the only business that this has happened to, either. Freelance writers, graphic designers, programmers, music, and even the online retail industry are having the same problems. I have had the feeling for years now that the US is headed towards becoming a third world country. The wealth will be with about 10% of the population, and the other 90% will be lucky to put food on the table. But that is another topic, not for discussion here." Maybe starting to stray off Topic but when this happened with cheap clothes, cheap food etc. many people were more than happy to snap up those items fuelled by cheap labour including me ..now the same thing is happening in the "professions" people are squealing.

Tror

« Reply #45 on: August 29, 2016, 09:32 »
0
Why doesn't somebody just drop a quick email to the IRS and ask them to check if it's all aboveboard?

Isn't IRS US only government agency? Even if it's all not aboveboard, Envato is Australian company...

Since January 2016 Envato is a US company. Thats why you have to fill out IRS tax forms ;-)

Beyond that, with international agreements like FATCA and the OECD global information exchange, in many countries your numbers meanwhile get sent automatically to your local tax office.

« Reply #46 on: August 29, 2016, 09:44 »
0
"Microstock isn't the only business that this has happened to, either. Freelance writers, graphic designers, programmers, music, and even the online retail industry are having the same problems. I have had the feeling for years now that the US is headed towards becoming a third world country. The wealth will be with about 10% of the population, and the other 90% will be lucky to put food on the table. But that is another topic, not for discussion here." Maybe starting to stray off Topic but when this happened with cheap clothes, cheap food etc. many people were more than happy to snap up those items fuelled by cheap labour including me ..now the same thing is happening in the "professions" people are squealing.


Some of us squealed when Walmart, Dollar Stores, etc. wanted to come into the neighborhood. But just as with microstock, money talks. It is difficult for the little guys to fight the large corporations and their $$$s.

« Reply #47 on: August 29, 2016, 09:48 »
+1
"Microstock isn't the only business that this has happened to, either. Freelance writers, graphic designers, programmers, music, and even the online retail industry are having the same problems. I have had the feeling for years now that the US is headed towards becoming a third world country. The wealth will be with about 10% of the population, and the other 90% will be lucky to put food on the table. But that is another topic, not for discussion here." Maybe starting to stray off Topic but when this happened with cheap clothes, cheap food etc. many people were more than happy to snap up those items fuelled by cheap labour including me ..now the same thing is happening in the "professions" people are squealing.


Some of us squealed when Walmart, Dollar Stores, etc. wanted to come into the neighborhood. But just as with microstock, money talks. It is difficult for the little guys to fight the large corporations and their $$$s.
Yes very true.....though of course its the likes of Nike who pass off mass produced footwear made by cheap labour as a "quality" product. Anyway straying off topic......I get bored when I'm supposed to be doing keywording and it makes me grumpy  :P.

« Reply #48 on: August 29, 2016, 11:28 »
0
"Microstock isn't the only business that this has happened to, either. Freelance writers, graphic designers, programmers, music, and even the online retail industry are having the same problems. I have had the feeling for years now that the US is headed towards becoming a third world country. The wealth will be with about 10% of the population, and the other 90% will be lucky to put food on the table. But that is another topic, not for discussion here." Maybe starting to stray off Topic but when this happened with cheap clothes, cheap food etc. many people were more than happy to snap up those items fuelled by cheap labour including me ..now the same thing is happening in the "professions" people are squealing.


Some of us squealed when Walmart, Dollar Stores, etc. wanted to come into the neighborhood. But just as with microstock, money talks. It is difficult for the little guys to fight the large corporations and their $$$s.
Yes very true.....though of course its the likes of Nike who pass off mass produced footwear made by cheap labour as a "quality" product. Anyway straying off topic......I get bored when I'm supposed to be doing keywording and it makes me grumpy  :P .

I hear ya.


 

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