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Author Topic: Video: which sites are worth it?  (Read 35215 times)

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Tror

« on: August 27, 2014, 13:57 »
0
I currently submit to:
- Pond5
- Shutterstock
- 123rf

I dumped:
- Canstock (low royalties)
- Fotolia (sub sales)
- Revostock (payment troubles?)
- istock (what???)
- Clipcanvas (Yeah, I know...)
- Depositphotos (abusive politics)

I refuse to upload to:
- Dissolve (low royalty)
- Envato / Videohive (low royalty)

Do I miss some site which is worthwhile?

Thanks all ;-)


« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2014, 03:16 »
0
I've been thinking of dabbling in video, however considering how bad pond5 is with my images I have little hope for them in Video.

Best of luck

« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2014, 03:19 »
0
As a brand new stock photo/videographer i have around 15-20 videos at SS, DT, 123RF... for 2-3 months but no t any sales yet :(

« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2014, 04:14 »
+3
I've been thinking of dabbling in video, however considering how bad pond5 is with my images I have little hope for them in Video.

Best of luck

Pond5 are new to images, their mainstay has always been video.

If you're getting into video, you should be submitting to P5 and SS at a minimum.

« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2014, 04:23 »
+1
For my case, SS and Pond5 are the best, followed by IS.

« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2014, 08:08 »
0
For my case, SS and Pond5 are the best, followed by IS.

Same here. No sales on Revostock and Motion Elements, yet anyway.  I may give Ultimastock a try but later when they become a bit more established.  Because videos don't carry over keywords it is an absolute pain in the arse to upload them to new sites.

« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2014, 02:39 »
0
What do you mean that "video don't carry over keywords"? I did regularly with Bridge.

« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2014, 03:12 »
+1
many websites don't seem to recognize the video metadata.

my main agencies are pond5 and ss.

Don't judge pond5 by their photo sales, video is their main media, they outsell ss nearly every month, unless there is an extended license on ss.

i submit a selection to fotolia and dreamstime, with dreamstime I still have hope, with fotolia I have nearly given up.

Haven't tried motionelements yet, but might try. Also want to try pixta.

But 90% of my video income is pond5 and ss. since uploading video takes a lot of time, I am glad I can make most of my money from two agencies.

ETA: I really like that I can set my own prices on pond5. I have many testshots, that I am happy to offer at low prices if somebody can find them useful. But I have other files where I paid models and invested in the production where the files can be priced much higher. Not all files are created equal. It is true for photography but even more for video.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 05:29 by cobalt »

« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2014, 07:59 »
-1
many websites don't seem to recognize the video metadata.

my main agencies are pond5 and ss.

Don't judge pond5 by their photo sales, video is their main media, they outsell ss nearly every month, unless there is an extended license on ss.

i submit a selection to fotolia and dreamstime, with dreamstime I still have hope, with fotolia I have nearly given up.

Haven't tried motionelements yet, but might try. Also want to try pixta.

But 90% of my video income is pond5 and ss. since uploading video takes a lot of time, I am glad I can make most of my money from two agencies.

ETA: I really like that I can set my own prices on pond5. I have many testshots, that I am happy to offer at low prices if somebody can find them useful. But I have other files where I paid models and invested in the production where the files can be priced much higher. Not all files are created equal. It is true for photography but even more for video.

I have had far better results on SS than P5. Yesterday I did some pricing comparisons and I was surprised that many of the successful videos were set at $10-$15. Cobalt, how are you proving your clips if you don't mind me asking. Most of mine I price between $40-$60. 

« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2014, 08:07 »
0
From 10-60 dollars. I recently moved a lot of files that havent sold in three years to the lowest price point. When they sell, I move them back up the ladder (20-40) dollars. If a file sells at SS I keep it at 60 dollars. I also dont price all files from a series the same. The best shots gets 60 dollars, the out takes are priced for less.

I change prices frequently, because I am still learning what works best at which price point.

That is why I like the pond5 system. I also upload a lot of test shots, because I want to try something and then price these at 30 dollars.

I am also now trying to do more editorial, because last month it was 30% of my video sales. Maybe just a lucky coincidence, but it is worth trying.

I still have less than 300 videos, so I am far from being a pro. Enthusiastic amateur is probably the best way to describe me.

But 50% is a great motivator and I enjoy video in many way more than photography.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 08:29 by cobalt »

« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2014, 08:08 »
+2
Pond5 is the king of video, and is the best to contributors. How can you beat consistent, solid sales, setting your own price, and taking 50%?!?! (Just don't set your prices at or near the bottom, you'll be shooting yourself in the foot, as well as everyone else!) They're also great with audio. Photos are getting better, but not where anyone wants them to be yet.

Shutterstock is a necessary evil. Unfortunately.

Everywhere else is either a graveyard, or nearly a graveyard that steals the lions share of the money earned.

« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2014, 08:11 »
0
I think sunsets, testshots etc...or files that simply havent sold in several years can be priced cheaper. Not everything deserves 60 dollars. And many files dont even sell when priced at 10 dollars. Some stuff is simply not useful.

But many of my files have been selling for years now at 60 dollars, so i keep them there. I also have a series that I will price at 90-120 dollars, just havent processed it yet. This file will for a year only be available at pond5. If it sells, Ill keep it there, if it doesnt, Ill lower the price and send it to SS as well.

I also price my photos between 5-25 dollars. There is no reason to keep it all at the same price.

Pond5 is a real market place and you get what you pay for. Customers often buy the most expensive clip from a series, because it is the best one.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 08:18 by cobalt »

« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2014, 08:52 »
+1
I, too, am tryi to get that feel for where to price my work.  I think I am going to go in this weekend and dabble a bit on pricing. I only have 200 clips but find that I can produce 10 or so a week and more if I venture into animation. Since I have a day job I am limited in time, but, of course, if I didnthis full time I would be turning out a lot more work.

« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2014, 09:06 »
+2
I agree to a point, although my "bottom" is $30. Which a lot of the more successful, fellow P5 contributors would still consider too low. I think less than that is detrimental to the future hopes of keeping this income respectable and "sustainable". But that's a never ending debate...

« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2014, 09:11 »
-3
Just as an example:

http://www.pond5.com/stock-footage/8860587/people-walking.html

This file hasnt sold since 2011 and still hasnt even sold since I placed it at 10 dollars. It probably never will, didnt sell elsewhere either.

Some others:

http://www.pond5.com/stock-footage/8860609/cologne.html

http://www.pond5.com/stock-footage/10593478/making-pizza.html

If they dont sell even at 10 dollars...there is a reason...


If people believe I am destroying "everybodys income" with 10 dollar files...I cant help them, sorry.

Just because I press a movie button, it doesnt mean it is instantly useful.

If a file sells repeatedly I move it upstream again.

It is not my goal to create 10 dollar files. It is my goal to understand what sells at which price point and what files are useful to the customer. If a file comes to life at 10 dollars, it tells me that the basic concept is useful, but probably the quality wasngood enough to justify a higher price. So maybe I will reshoot it in better quality and price that file higher. This is the way I will learn what the clients need.

When I have 1000 clips I will hopefully have found my way around video.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 09:15 by cobalt »

« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2014, 11:00 »
+2
Just as an example:

http://www.pond5.com/stock-footage/8860587/people-walking.html

This file hasnt sold since 2011 and still hasnt even sold since I placed it at 10 dollars. It probably never will, didnt sell elsewhere either.

Some others:

http://www.pond5.com/stock-footage/8860609/cologne.html

http://www.pond5.com/stock-footage/10593478/making-pizza.html

If they dont sell even at 10 dollars...there is a reason...


If people believe I am destroying "everybodys income" with 10 dollar files...I cant help them, sorry.

Just because I press a movie button, it doesnt mean it is instantly useful.

If a file sells repeatedly I move it upstream again.

It is not my goal to create 10 dollar files. It is my goal to understand what sells at which price point and what files are useful to the customer. If a file comes to life at 10 dollars, it tells me that the basic concept is useful, but probably the quality wasngood enough to justify a higher price. So maybe I will reshoot it in better quality and price that file higher. This is the way I will learn what the clients need.

When I have 1000 clips I will hopefully have found my way around video.


Interesting perception, and from a Stocksy member no less! Beautiful work by the way. My understanding is their whole deal is sustainable incomes for creators though, right?

Any of those video files could sell, and I'd be willing to bet that wouldn't change if they were $30. It's reasonable to say some files may not ever be downloaded even if they given away for free, if there was no customer interest in them. The bigger issue here might be with all these $10 non-selling videos clogging up the search results. And the contagious false belief that bottoming out on price will somehow make a "useless" clip sell.

I wish Pond5 would just raise the bottom line price for every clip. Would be such a win-win for everybody.

« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2014, 11:17 »
0
Like I said, I didnt start out with that price. I started at 60 dollars and over the years lowered and lowered them.

I think I waited long enough.

I wouldnt mind if pond5 wants to raise the price, but honestly, not everything has to be "at least" 30 dollars. These clips are not high art or were difficult to make. They are just "press the button for a few seconds" and upload them as is. I have files created this way that are selling well. These didnt.

I also sell photos at sub sites for 30 cents (or 28 cents)  and I spent A LOT MORE time and money on the creation of these photos than I did on most of my videos. I also sell files on stocksy or westend for 500 dollars that probably where just as easy to make as the videos above. But because I have 20 year+ experience with photography I know what is useful for the customer. With video I have no idea.

If I had a crystal ball to predict what is best for each file...I would be outselling everyone. But like this you just try and try again and learn from the experience.

ETA: yes stocksy is fantastic, but unfortunately the number of artists they can take is very limited. That is what makes pond5 so valuable for everyone, because thousands of artists can join and then it is up to each one to find a way to make it work. But they seem to have enough critical mass customers, at least with video, so even a video newbie like me can get sales.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2014, 13:06 by cobalt »

« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2014, 03:57 »
+2
I think sunsets, testshots etc...or files that simply havent sold in several years can be priced cheaper. Not everything deserves 60 dollars. And many files dont even sell when priced at 10 dollars. Some stuff is simply not useful.

But many of my files have been selling for years now at 60 dollars, so i keep them there. I also have a series that I will price at 90-120 dollars, just havent processed it yet. This file will for a year only be available at pond5. If it sells, Ill keep it there, if it doesnt, Ill lower the price and send it to SS as well.

I also price my photos between 5-25 dollars. There is no reason to keep it all at the same price.

Pond5 is a real market place and you get what you pay for. Customers often buy the most expensive clip from a series, because it is the best one.
i liked your strategy jasmin. Specially placing some videos a year in pond5 and after that period reconsidering them whether to upload alre where or lowering price. But dont forget to mention in the description of those videos that they are exclusive to p5 atm. I dont know about lowering price of clinche videos. I almost always keep the price above 100 and they do get sold. Not sure if had been sold more frequently if i had kept their price low. Like i sold a video of simple firework (not very vivid though) for 108$ few months back. Where as there a lot and lot of much better fireworks video there for all price levels.

« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2014, 04:07 »
+1
To add in the description that the video is "currently exclusive to pond5" is very, very good suggestion, thank you. I absolutely want to experiment with content that can be offered at higher prices than on SS. But whatever I do, i need more regular video uploads to attract customers to my port. New files are like breadcrumbs on the floor leading people your way...

There are many artists with very specialized files that they offer for over 1000 dollars. i guess if you were the only one documenting a festival that happens every ten years in a remote region in the world it is great that pond5 gives you the option to set your own price.

Not all files are created equal. With photos you select different agencies for different price points, with video you can do it all in one site with pond5.

Tror

« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2014, 08:17 »
+3
Just as an example:

http://www.pond5.com/stock-footage/8860587/people-walking.html

This file hasnt sold since 2011 and still hasnt even sold since I placed it at 10 dollars. It probably never will, didnt sell elsewhere either.

Some others:

http://www.pond5.com/stock-footage/8860609/cologne.html

http://www.pond5.com/stock-footage/10593478/making-pizza.html

If they dont sell even at 10 dollars...there is a reason...


If people believe I am destroying "everybodys income" with 10 dollar files...I cant help them, sorry.

Just because I press a movie button, it doesnt mean it is instantly useful.

If a file sells repeatedly I move it upstream again.

It is not my goal to create 10 dollar files. It is my goal to understand what sells at which price point and what files are useful to the customer. If a file comes to life at 10 dollars, it tells me that the basic concept is useful, but probably the quality wasngood enough to justify a higher price. So maybe I will reshoot it in better quality and price that file higher. This is the way I will learn what the clients need.

When I have 1000 clips I will hopefully have found my way around video.


I think it simply takes a long time to understand the Video market. It seems to be so closely related to the still image stock market since we can use the same tech etc., but the clients and the market are VERY different.

I started too setting different prices etc. on Pond in the beginning, thinking it is a volume market like still images.

But, to give you my conclusion:

1. Volume
-In stock a Client may download (especially in Sub sites) a image just because. They may download 4 images on credit sites until they find out that it is image #5 they need. Images sell in volume. We design them to sell in Volume. Many people use images on blogs, sites, cards, designs, flyers, prints, social media etc.

- In Video clients are mostly professionals. While I do notice sometimes that cheaper priced Videos sell more than others I am quite sure I would have made the same revenue with the same video higher priced, selling maybe 2 less but earning more per download. Video is not such a volume market that stills is. Buyers are different. Sometimes I am soooo baffled how much a client pays for a video of which I thought is nothing special.

2. Stock images stimulate buyers.
- We create nice-candy-shiny-beauty looking images for buyers who sometimes do not even know they want our stuff until they see it - and buy it out of reflex - or because it solves their Design problems. Sometimes a good image  can replace a entire design concept. It is easy for them. We know that and direct buyers accordingly.

- In Video - while there may occur the same phenomenon - buyers usually know what they need and pay for it. It is much more thought through and unpredictable for us what sells. The market has its own opinion and we do not direct it that much.

I do not judge you cobalt. I admire you patience on going back and monitoring old files and adjust the price. But I do not think it will change any sales figure of those files you provided the links. I think one of them might sell next week for 60 as well as for 10. I think you cannot stimulate too much the sales of a video file by adjusting the prices since the market seems to work differently as outlined above.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 08:23 by Tror »

« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2014, 08:27 »
0
Thank you for your insights, it is very helpful.

For the record, from the files I dropped in price a few months ago, around 20% started to sell. The other 80% are dead in the water. I will probably delete them at some point, they are clearly useless.

But for me the experiment is worth it, because I can learn from the files that came to life and try to improve my work next time I approach that theme. If I then have something that has better quality and gets bought at a higher price, I will probably delete the older files as well.

i would like to offer the customer good quality files so they feel they are getting something appropriate for their money. But there is a lot to learn about video. It is much harder than I thought and I have been doing it part time for two years now.

Like you said it is a very different market.

I am not recommending people should try what I did, or put good quality files up for cheap. On the contrary.

But pond5 allows me to work with prices, so I intend to learn all I can from it. And if I can identify a perfect niche for 200 dollar files I will shoot it again and again :)

But then of course, everyone can see my downloads and will undercut me with 190 dollar files..but thats life.

If anything pushes prices down it is that, copy cats looking at your portfolio and pricing their copied work cheaper.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 08:45 by cobalt »

« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2014, 08:46 »
+2
The thing I find interesting is that I emulated some of my best still shots into video. They do sell so I can reasonable conclude that in-demand stills will also have, to a degree, in-demand videos.  I'll admit that not all of my videos that replicate the subject of still have sold, but most of my sales are from similar still themes from my most popular. 

I am really enjoying this particular thread. It's what I like about forums, exchanging ideas, theories and ideas. One of the things that Cobalt targets is pricing.  If a video is listed on P5 at $30 and it sells on SS for $90, isn't it wise to go into P5 and change your pricing to somewhere in that range? What I am trying to avoid is as video gains popularity (and I hope this is the case) that my files are priced consistently across micros if shoppers are shopping on price. I do agree with Tror in that customers don't seem as price sensitive when purchasing video.  It's really a game of content price, subject, messaging....and key wording. I am enjoying video, honestly, more that photos....except for my underwater work ;)

« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2014, 09:11 »
0
Yes, that is what I do. If I have priced a file to low, but it gets a sale on SS, I immediatly raise the price to 60 dollars. It used to be 80 or 69 dollars, but 60 seems to work much better for my portfolio,so this is currently the best price. The customer has the advantage of getting the files a little cheaper than on SS, but I get the same money. I sell more files overall on pond5 and more series. So I guess it is a win win for customer,pond5 and me. SS will survive ;)

But there are differences in what sells on pond5 and SS. Usually the 30 dollar files dont really sell there. So I guess I am already getting better at pricing my work.

I used to have much more variety in prices, 85,69,52,46...etc...but at the moment I am running a test with just three price levels. makes it easier for me to understand.

The next step is a level at 120-200 dollars and keep it at pond5 only for a year. And then see how that goes. By the end of next year I should hopefully have enough experience what really works.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2014, 09:17 by cobalt »

« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2014, 12:31 »
+11
On many occasions I have had video files finally sell once after being online for 5yrs.  They sell because they meet the need the buyer has and they sell for $69 or $79 dollars.  If I had lowered the price to $10 they most likely still would have only sold once in 5yrs as obviously they aren't in high demand clips.  Even if sales picked up a bit, at $10, I'd have to sell it 7 times to equal the one sale at the higher price. Not likely.

In the past, I too tried lowering prices on clips that hadn't sold and in the end determined that clips sold when they found their buyer and price wasn't a factor.  I was just loosing out financially and wasting time trying to decide what price point was best.

On other occasions, I've found my sales increased when I raised the prices on P5.

Here's something else that's been on my mind.  When SS started offering 4K and set the price at $299 a clip, they gave us a gift by allowing video artists to sell at a good rate of return.  I can see by looking at Pond5 and their forum that many producers have already decided that those prices are too high and are offering 4K at much lower price points.

Many people in this industry have been trained by the micros to compete on price.  What a shame.  That's Deposit Photo or 123RF kind of thinking.

« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2014, 12:36 »
0
But what about quality? Dont you believe you should offer the customer a price based on quality?

Because that is what I am trying to do. Be honest with myself and see crap as crap.

I think for the pro videographer keeping all prices the same is not a problem, but for amateurs there is the learning experience.


 

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