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Microstock Photography Forum - General => Image Sleuth => Topic started by: click_click on July 15, 2010, 12:40

Title: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: click_click on July 15, 2010, 12:40
Again, in the last two days I had ebay remove 38 listings with my best seller on them.

Power Sellers from China and Japan (over 30,000 feedback)  seem to have no remorse to sell that stuff on an unknown platform known as ebay.

Don't forget to check regularly that your best sellers don't get sold at ebay by someone else.

Tineye helped me again to find the auctions.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: cascoly on July 15, 2010, 13:11
how were they delivering?  cd? digital download or link?  if the latter you can report them to ebay for that reason alone

can you give the user name of sellers we might want to check?

steve
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: Dreamframer on July 15, 2010, 14:20
Like this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/DVD-1200-STOCK-PHOTOS-FRESH-FRUITS-VEGETABLE-images-/260632799347?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3caeece873 (http://cgi.ebay.com/DVD-1200-STOCK-PHOTOS-FRESH-FRUITS-VEGETABLE-images-/260632799347?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3caeece873)
Or this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/DVD-1150-BABIES-FAMILY-CHILDREN-COUPLES-STOCK-PHOTOS-/260632732777?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3caeebe469 (http://cgi.ebay.com/DVD-1150-BABIES-FAMILY-CHILDREN-COUPLES-STOCK-PHOTOS-/260632732777?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3caeebe469)
Or this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/STOCK-PHOTOS-NATURE-1-180-IMAGES-3-CDS-/200493681910?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eae5accf6 (http://cgi.ebay.com/STOCK-PHOTOS-NATURE-1-180-IMAGES-3-CDS-/200493681910?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eae5accf6)
Or this?
http://cgi.ebay.com/DVD-1000-FOOD-DISH-BEVERAGE-drinks-STOCK-PHOTOS-Image-/260632799375?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3caeece88f (http://cgi.ebay.com/DVD-1000-FOOD-DISH-BEVERAGE-drinks-STOCK-PHOTOS-Image-/260632799375?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3caeece88f)

All these are from the same seller, with 100% positive feedback.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: Dreamframer on July 15, 2010, 14:30
Actually, he made 71 DVD's with stock photos. Mostly all cost $5.

http://shop.ebay.com/digienlight/m.html?_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A3627&_ipg=&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14.l1513&_pgn=1 (http://shop.ebay.com/digienlight/m.html?_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A3627&_ipg=&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14.l1513&_pgn=1)

So, he is buying images and reselling them for $5. Every DVD has 1000-1500 images, which means in the best case one image on DVD costs 0,5 cents. Yes, it's $0,005.
Now I ask myself, does someone shares his DVD's on pirated stock sites?? There are thieves who steal from us. I bet there are thieves that steal from thieves and share for free...
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: stormchaser on July 15, 2010, 14:38
Why do you assume he bought them? The hot sellers, especially from IS and SS, are all over the torrent sites, the Heroturkos, and others.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: Dreamframer on July 15, 2010, 14:41
Why do you assume he bought them? The hot sellers, especially from IS and SS, are all over the torrent sites, the Heroturkos, and others.

Yeah, maybe you are right.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: leaf on July 15, 2010, 14:46
Again, in the last two days I had ebay remove 38 listings with my best seller on them.

Power Sellers from China and Japan (over 30,000 feedback)  seem to have no remorse to sell that stuff on an unknown platform known as ebay.

Don't forget to check regularly that your best sellers don't get sold at ebay by someone else.

Tineye helped me again to find the auctions.

Did ebay remove the accounts as well or just their auctions?
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: click_click on July 15, 2010, 15:56
Again, in the last two days I had ebay remove 38 listings with my best seller on them.

Power Sellers from China and Japan (over 30,000 feedback)  seem to have no remorse to sell that stuff on an unknown platform known as ebay.

Don't forget to check regularly that your best sellers don't get sold at ebay by someone else.

Tineye helped me again to find the auctions.


Did ebay remove the accounts as well or just their auctions?


ebay is not removing the accounts - they only remove the listings.

Since the sellers in my case are in China and Japan I cannot pursue any legal action.

Here is one of them:
http://myworld.ebay.com/24outlet/ (http://myworld.ebay.com/24outlet/)
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: lisafx on July 15, 2010, 16:03
Okay, strange idea.  Might be worth buying one and then leaving terrible feedback.  If enough people trash him it could destroy his feedback profile.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: click_click on July 15, 2010, 16:12
http://cgi.ebay.com/DVD-900-STOCK-PHOTOS-FLORAL-FLOWERS-CLOSEUPS-images-v2-/180531544854?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0884c316 (http://cgi.ebay.com/DVD-900-STOCK-PHOTOS-FLORAL-FLOWERS-CLOSEUPS-images-v2-/180531544854?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0884c316)

Copyright Owner: Hamed Elgendy
Source 123RF
(http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/max2002eg/max2002eg0705/max2002eg070500048/945162-beautiful-flowers-with-background-elegance.jpg)

I'm trying to contact the copyright owner. It's very easy with Tineye to get the copyright holder of the main image of each listing.
I'm just not going through all the listings...
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: click_click on July 15, 2010, 16:20
Okay, strange idea.  Might be worth buying one and then leaving terrible feedback.  If enough people trash him it could destroy his feedback profile.

I'm torn - on the one side I'd do that but then I have to ask myself what I just spent money on...?

This guy is from Malaysia, also no way to take legal action - so you end up spending money for what? There are plenty of them who will do the same once he is gone.

Sad.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: stormchaser on July 15, 2010, 17:01
[url]http://cgi.ebay.com/DVD-900-STOCK-PHOTOS-FLORAL-FLOWERS-CLOSEUPS-images-v2-/180531544854?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0884c316[/url] ([url]http://cgi.ebay.com/DVD-900-STOCK-PHOTOS-FLORAL-FLOWERS-CLOSEUPS-images-v2-/180531544854?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0884c316[/url])

Copyright Owner: Hamed Elgendy
Source 123RF
([url]http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/max2002eg/max2002eg0705/max2002eg070500048/945162-beautiful-flowers-with-background-elegance.jpg[/url])

I'm trying to contact the copyright owner. It's very easy with Tineye to get the copyright holder of the main image of each listing.
I'm just not going through all the listings...


Here is his port on 123RF

http://www.123rf.com/profile_max2002eg (http://www.123rf.com/profile_max2002eg)

If you're a member there you could try and send a site mail. He doesn't look very active though.

I did find a hit on Dreamstime for him, but it looks like the account is unavailable.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: click_click on July 15, 2010, 17:13
...Here is his port on 123RF

[url]http://www.123rf.com/profile_max2002eg[/url] ([url]http://www.123rf.com/profile_max2002eg[/url])

If you're a member there you could try and send a site mail. He doesn't look very active though.

I did find a hit on Dreamstime for him, but it looks like the account is unavailable.


I did send him a site mail on 123RF. I also saw the inactive account at DT - whatever that means...

In his Bigstock Photo profile he listed a web site but it's also inactive.

Low chances that he is going to take action...  :-\
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: madelaide on July 15, 2010, 17:30
So, he is buying images and reselling them for $5.

You can not say that unless you find those images online by someone else.  I checked the first two at Tineye, the first had 0 results, the second 4 - all were websites, not stock agencies. So he can be the legal copyright owner.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: Dreamframer on July 15, 2010, 17:35
So, he is buying images and reselling them for $5.

You can not say that unless you find those images online by someone else.  I checked the first two at Tineye, the first had 0 results, the second 4 - all were websites, not stock agencies. So he can be the legal copyright owner.

But I've checked more, and there are some from Getty, and 123RF as well :)
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: madelaide on July 15, 2010, 17:37
It's unlikely the source is Getty, so it's probably 123RF then. Oh, the subs...
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: lefty on July 15, 2010, 18:02
So, he is buying images and reselling them for $5.

You can not say that unless you find those images online by someone else.  I checked the first two at Tineye, the first had 0 results, the second 4 - all were websites, not stock agencies. So he can be the legal copyright owner.

Madelaide is right. I know  some people already say they want to stop using microstock part and want to do their own selling on ebay, direct,etc. So maybe this is a copyright owner who is doing same.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: click_click on July 15, 2010, 18:44
... So maybe this is a copyright owner who is doing same.

Who is registered from Egypt at 123RF but selling from Malaysia on ebay? That's a far stretch.

I'm getting tired of giving these people the benefit of the doubt. Not once have I falsely accused somebody for ripping me off.

Also I don't think there is a big market on ebay to legally sell POD images. There are far more specific places to do so.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: Kone on July 15, 2010, 20:06
... So maybe this is a copyright owner who is doing same.

Who is registered from Egypt at 123RF but selling from Malaysia on ebay? That's a far stretch.

I'm getting tired of giving these people the benefit of the doubt. Not once have I falsely accused somebody for ripping me off.

Also I don't think there is a big market on ebay to legally sell POD images. There are far more specific places to do so.

Hey click_click,

I had a similar problem before, and I guess I'm still having it, but I stopped looking for my own images. This way, at least I don't get discouraged. I spend my energy on other things.

Sadly, these criminals who make money off of our work, they can almost do it legally.

I suggest you just let it go.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: click_click on July 15, 2010, 20:34
... So maybe this is a copyright owner who is doing same.

Who is registered from Egypt at 123RF but selling from Malaysia on ebay? That's a far stretch.

I'm getting tired of giving these people the benefit of the doubt. Not once have I falsely accused somebody for ripping me off.

Also I don't think there is a big market on ebay to legally sell POD images. There are far more specific places to do so.

Hey click_click,

I had a similar problem before, and I guess I'm still having it, but I stopped looking for my own images. This way, at least I don't get discouraged. I spend my energy on other things.

Sadly, these criminals who make money off of our work, they can almost do it legally.

I suggest you just let it go.

I know what you mean. I'm not affected anymore the way I used to in the beginning.

Every now and then I check Google Images, ebay, Zazzle and make sure my best seller is off the radar.
I always find something. So far I'm doing pretty good.

Sometime I get paid, sometimes the images are taken down and a few times they just try to get away with it - but there are always ways to cut them off since no web host will allow copyright infringement. At least I haven't dealt with web hosting companies in countries that don't really have any copyright laws.

All I'm trying to do is getting rid of the full high resolution images on Google Images. I don't care about the rest anymore.
Also, if someone sells products without the appropriate license, that's a no-no in my book. I can't stop them all - but I will stop the worst of them  ;D
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: cascoly on July 16, 2010, 16:05
and just to ad salt to the wounds, the ebay pirate includes this BS == "images on this CD/ DVD are royalty free, however this CD/ DVD may NOT be produced in any form and redistributed and/or sold. CD/ DVD images are protected under U.S. and International Copyright Laws as a "compilation" since first published and offered for sale. "   

of course, ms licenses specifically forbid such compilations in the first place.

ebay however is terrible when it comes to enforcing this stuff - no  matter how obvious a ripoff is, unless the actual copyright holder complains they do nothing.   

and in another great twist of logic - if you buy something on ebay with the intent of leaving neg fdbk, ebay will remove that fdbk and your acct, yet only an organized effort woud be able to leave enuf bad fdbk to matter.

steve
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: donding on July 16, 2010, 16:29
The sad thing is that they have been doing it for awhile because they are power sellers with 100% positive feedback. That's what I always look for when buying off e-bay, those power sellers...now it makes me wonder.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: madelaide on July 16, 2010, 17:21
I'm getting tired of giving these people the benefit of the doubt. Not once have I falsely accused somebody for ripping me off.

I give the benefit of doubt when we don't see the originals owned by someone else (as in the case of one of DF's examples, which I didn't find at stock sites through TinEye). Once we now the seller isn't the copyright owner, there is a chance the person didn't know it was illegal, but that is no excuse.

But yes, it's basically impossible to take any legal action.

And microstock agencies rarely care about our reporting this to them. I haven't yet had example in which they took an attitude. Infractors may remove the illegal content, but if they don't the agencies to nothing either. Even my watermarked StockXpert image is still at BBC (and that was reported long before StockXpert died). It possibly doesn't matter to them moneywise.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: madelaide on July 16, 2010, 17:24
The sad thing is that they have been doing it for awhile because they are power sellers with 100% positive feedback.
Positive feedback is because they deliver the goods as expected. People who buy them may not know it is illegal, although certainly many do - but they won't give a negative feedback because of that.

Our e-Bay is a repository of smuggled electronics. The government apparently doesn't do anything about that.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: cascoly on July 16, 2010, 19:07
The sad thing is that they have been doing it for awhile because they are power sellers with 100% positive feedback. That's what I always look for when buying off e-bay, those power sellers...now it makes me wonder.

yep, power seller status is no guarantee - and when peiople are willing to get pirated goods cheap, the buyers dont leave neg fdbk. 

i bot a rosetta stone package awhile ago, and when i reported to ebay that the seller sent me a pirated version, ebay did nothing;  i reported it to the RS producer but they didnt do anything either

s
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: sharpshot on July 17, 2010, 02:25
Ebay let you have more than 1 account, so could you win an auction for all the items that shouldn't be on there, not pay for them and leave negative feedback mentioning the copyright abuse?
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: cascoly on July 18, 2010, 13:47
Ebay let you have more than 1 account, so could you win an auction for all the items that shouldn't be on there, not pay for them and leave negative feedback mentioning the copyright abuse?

there are a limited number of reasons ebay allows multiple accts - this tactic is definitely not one of them, and easily spotted by ebay.  in addition, if you dont pay, that acct gets flagged, AND no fdbk is allowed on that transaction

the best way to get items removed is first to report them directly to ebay [a low % chance], or better, have the copyright owner contact ebay

s
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: traveler1116 on July 19, 2010, 09:28
Tiger

EBAY:  http://cgi.ebay.com/DVD-1033-WILD-ANIMAL-STOCK-PHOTOS-tiger-safari-monkeys-/180533502878?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a08a2a39e (http://cgi.ebay.com/DVD-1033-WILD-ANIMAL-STOCK-PHOTOS-tiger-safari-monkeys-/180533502878?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a08a2a39e)

GETTY: http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/dv421048 (http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/dv421048)

Toucan

EBAY:  http://cgi.ebay.com/DVD-1200-BIRDS-REPTILES-INSECTS-animal-WALLPAPER-PHOTOS-/260635789151?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Art_Photographs_RL&hash=item3caf1a875f (http://cgi.ebay.com/DVD-1200-BIRDS-REPTILES-INSECTS-animal-WALLPAPER-PHOTOS-/260635789151?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Art_Photographs_RL&hash=item3caf1a875f)

GETTY:  http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/71057185 (http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/71057185)

People

EBAY:  http://cgi.ebay.com/DVD-1000-PEOPLE-BUSINESS-PHOTOS-IMAGES-professional-/180532767530?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a08976b2a (http://cgi.ebay.com/DVD-1000-PEOPLE-BUSINESS-PHOTOS-IMAGES-professional-/180532767530?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a08976b2a)

GETTY:  http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/BU007530 (http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/BU007530)

Doubt this is ok?
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: noonan on July 20, 2010, 09:43
The best thing to do in this situation would be to bypass ebay and contact the recent buyers who left feedback and provide them with evidence that the stock images have been ripped off from the microstock site.  I would explain that they need to purchase a licence to use any of those images or they could find themselves in trouble.  They would either 1) purchase a licence for any image they really want, or 2) contact ebay themselves asking for a refund. 

It's probably more likely that option 2 will occur and ebay will be forced to give the buyer back their money.  Eventually the seller will find it's not feasible to sell the item there having to pay fees for items that didn't sell.  If ebay get enough complaints and have to give back enough refunds, they'll then close the seller's account and their 100% rating will be gone.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: click_click on July 20, 2010, 10:02
... 2) contact ebay themselves asking for a refund. 

It's probably more likely that option 2 will occur and ebay will be forced to give the buyer back their money.  Eventually the seller will find it's not feasible to sell the item there having to pay fees for items that didn't sell.  If ebay get enough complaints and have to give back enough refunds, they'll then close the seller's account and their 100% rating will be gone.

I can tell you one thing: ebay will never ever pay damages for IP theft. Not on such a small scale like in our cases.

I know ebay had to pay damages before to some brand. It was a handbag company or something. That was large scale copyright infringement.

For pictures, posters, belt buckles, stickers you'll be barking at the wrong tree.

I'm totally on the same side with you, that ebay should control the items being offered on their site but their terms state otherwise.
It's not ebay's responsibility to verify the authenticity of each item in every listing. That's up to the buyer to decide and if in doubt - do not bid!

I would have made so much money with the strategy you are proposing, ebay would be broke within a month if everyone put in a claim for copyright infringement. LOL.

As with many things online these days - it ain't going to happen. Unfortunately.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: noonan on July 20, 2010, 10:17
I don't agree with you there.

Ebay's policy on IP...

\\\

How eBay Protects Intellectual Property (VeRO)
We are committed to protecting the intellectual property rights of third parties and to providing our members with a safe place to trade. We created the Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) Program so that intellectual property owners could easily report listings that infringe their rights.

If you are a Verified Rights Owner and want to report a listing issue, see Reporting Intellectual Property Infringements.

To avoid creating listings that would infringe on intellectual property rights:

Take eBay's tutorial on Intellectual Property Policies and VeRO.

Read eBay's Guidelines for Creating Legally Compliant Listings.

Review list of VeRO Program Participant About Me pages. Many VeRO Program participants have created an About Me page that contains information about their policies protecting their intellectual property rights.

Do not use another member’s pictures or descriptions without their permission. For more information, see Item Description and Picture Theft.

Listings removed through VeRO

If your listing was removed because of a breach of the VeRO program and you believe that your listing was removed in error, eBay suggests that you first try to contact the rights owner directly. (The email notifying you that your listing had been removed should have included the rights owner's email address.) Only the rights owner understands their products and intellectual property rights. If the rights owner agrees that they made a mistake, have them email eBay and eBay will allow you to re-list your item.

Avoid having your listing removed through VeRO in the future. Review the list of VeRO Program Participant About Me pages. Participants have created an About Me page that contains information designed to help you understand why they requested the removal of your listing.

How eBay helps to ensure that listings aren’t mistakenly removed. A rights owner reporting through VeRO must be registered through VeRO before reporting items to us. Rights owners sign legally binding documents when reporting items to eBay.

How your personal information may be released. eBay will never give out your credit card information, except in rare cases when required by a court, or law enforcement agency. However, eBay’s Privacy Policy states, "we can (and you authorise us to) disclose your User ID, name, street address, city, state, postcode, country, phone number, email, and company name to eBay VeRO Program participants as we in our sole discretion believe necessary or appropriate in connection with an investigation of fraud, intellectual property infringement, piracy, or other unlawful activity."

Do you understand the rights owner’s claim, understand eBay’s policies, and still believe that the rights owner made a mistake in reporting your listing? If so, please email us.

\\\


Ebay almost always protects the buyer in a payment dispute regarding anything.  I think it's worth a shot if you're worried about it.  It might get a buyer purchasing a licence or it would at least discourage them to use the images.  I'm pretty sure they'll ask for a refund and it's likely they'll receive it. 
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: click_click on July 20, 2010, 10:52
I don't agree with you there.

Ebay's policy on IP...

...

Ebay almost always protects the buyer in a payment dispute regarding anything.  I think it's worth a shot if you're worried about it.  It might get a buyer purchasing a licence or it would at least discourage them to use the images.  I'm pretty sure they'll ask for a refund and it's likely they'll receive it. 

I'm a Vero member and I've been dealing with them many times.

The regular process of an auction/listing will be protected by ebay/Paypal. That won't include IP infringement cases, I'm pretty sure.

But since you mentioned it, I will contact them and make a claim for the recently found illegal listings and ask for my money.

That's cool. Then I won't even have to do Microstock anymore. I can just live off of the damages from ebay now  ;D
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: cascoly on July 20, 2010, 21:33
the ebay VERO system is either a CYA scam or a joke - take your pick.  basically ebay collects their fees and lets the disutants work it out; many buyers dont care whether the images are protected or not [this came up recently  in acase where scanned versions of copyrighted material basically destroyed an entire collectibles category]

i've been a seller on ebay for over 11 years now, and ther basic atttitue is the buyer is always right , and screw the small seller;
it's becoeme a very hostile environement; otoh pirates an prosper thru loopholes or lax monitoring

for awhile,i t was possible to sell indiv or small collections of images for digital download; this was a great alternative to the MS low royalties, ut ebsy banned these auctions because some few people were buying cheap downloads in order to boost their feedback ratings; so essentially ebay destroyed the forest to eliminate a few minor pests

steve
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: mtkang on July 21, 2010, 00:01
start a facebook page, publishing this on facebook, saying ebay is evil and partner of piracy and squeeze the artist's earning..support piracy.

just spread it..maybe it will be in CNN or some channels, maybe they feel it is too negative images to their business..

many people wants to support it and help it..make a petition. It used to be a parade on street, but now is so digital..and i will click the page to support it.
Title: Re: Keep an eye on ebay!
Post by: ann on July 23, 2010, 16:07
start a facebook page, publishing this on facebook, saying ebay is evil and partner of piracy and squeeze the artist's earning..support piracy.

just spread it..maybe it will be in CNN or some channels, maybe they feel it is too negative images to their business..

many people wants to support it and help it..make a petition. It used to be a parade on street, but now is so digital..and i will click the page to support it.


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