MicrostockGroup Sponsors


Author Topic: Pirated istock images ?  (Read 45814 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Microbius

« Reply #100 on: June 05, 2010, 06:01 »
0

Yes, that's true. But it's not Maria's fault that copyrighted track found it's place on youtube. Actually, youtube should have much better control over everything that is uploaded.
And it's not the fault of the websites stealing our work that it has appeared on Rapidshare, they are also just "pointing it out" to people.


Microbius

« Reply #101 on: June 05, 2010, 06:06 »
0
If you consider viewing a low res video that BBC could have had YouTube to remove (it hasn't, maybe it's also online in their website or at Youtube itself) the same as sharing software/DVD/CD containt without control...
You said yourself they already had it removed once so you knew they didn't want it up there. The BBC has better things to do with my license fee money then endlessly chase down thieves on Youtube.
I just find it a bit rich when people complain about other people stealing their work but have no qualms about doing the same thing.
What difference does the resolution make, the fact is that video infringes copyright, by your own admission you knew it did, and you still linked to it. Exactly the same as someone linking to our work on rapidshare and saying "well it's not my fault, IStock could have had it removed"
It's all this hypocrisy and double standards that clouds the issue and makes it harder to educate people.

« Reply #102 on: June 05, 2010, 08:12 »
0
If you consider viewing a low res video that BBC could have had YouTube to remove (it hasn't, maybe it's also online in their website or at Youtube itself) the same as sharing software/DVD/CD containt without control...
You said yourself they already had it removed once so you knew they didn't want it up there. The BBC has better things to do with my license fee money then endlessly chase down thieves on Youtube.
I just find it a bit rich when people complain about other people stealing their work but have no qualms about doing the same thing.
What difference does the resolution make, the fact is that video infringes copyright, by your own admission you knew it did, and you still linked to it. Exactly the same as someone linking to our work on rapidshare and saying "well it's not my fault, IStock could have had it removed"
It's all this hypocrisy and double standards that clouds the issue and makes it harder to educate people.

You are not right. It's more like someone is pointing of your watermarked images than to full res images. Seeing something on youtube is more a "preview" than theft. Otherwise, agents of all celebrities would easily pull down all music videos from youtube. But downloading a full res music video from rapidshare is theft.

Did you see Yaymicro's presentation on youtube? It's full of our images without watermark, and they are changing like a slide show. That's is not theft. That is a presentation, because it's on youtube.

Microbius

« Reply #103 on: June 05, 2010, 08:28 »
0
Sorry but no, you're wrong. I don't get the watermarked image statement at all. If someone was using your images illegally, watermarked or not you wouldn't be happy.

It is  not okay to help yourself to copyrighted material to use on you tube. It belongs to the copyright owner and you don't have the right to use it without permission.
Yay could use the photos because we signed up to letting them use our work for promotional use.
That is such a nonsensical argument it's amazing. For one thing youtube now also hosts HD videos, where you you draw the line? The resolution something is shown it is totally irrelevant to whether it's theft or not. It's the category of use that matters.
Otherwise mobile phone companies could take whatever they wanted for low res mobile wallpapers or apps etc.
There have been ongoing battles with record promoters to get their music and videos removed from YouTube. It happens constantly.
You're trying very hard to justify something that's actually very clear cut. Please reread my last statement, the BBC have already had that video taken down once and Madelaide knew that when she posted the original link.

« Reply #104 on: June 05, 2010, 12:53 »
0
Youtube is for promotion, otherwise you couldn't find millions of copies of the same music video on it. It's good for artists. It doesn't really harm their publicity.
what I want to say is, it is illegal, but artists love it because it's good for their publicity.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2010, 13:25 by Dreamframer »

Microbius

« Reply #105 on: June 05, 2010, 13:24 »
0
Yeah artists love it when people use their work without permission. That's why we're so overjoyed when we find our work stolen and posted all over the internet.

It's not for me you or anyone but the copyright holder to decide whether it is for their own good or not. The fact is record companies spend an awful lot of time getting videos and soundtracks removed from youtube etc. Why would anyone want to publicise their work to people that aren't gonna buy it anyway because they, like you, somehow manage to justify it as "illegal" but fine to nick their stuff. Please find me one artist that has said they like it when people copy their work without permission!
I can think of plenty of examples of people giving away work for free, but that's the difference, they give it away. They have control of their art and are the ones who should be making the decisions.

Your argument is the same lame one used by all the pirates and thieves out there. It's so illogical, and patently untrue, that I can't believe you're still persisting with it. The work isn't yours to post on youtube or not. You don't get to make that choice.

« Reply #106 on: June 05, 2010, 13:27 »
0
George Michael offers all his music for free on his own website. You can download it as much as you want.
He is big enough start for you I guess...

« Reply #107 on: June 05, 2010, 13:30 »
0
Than youtube shoud erase 90% of their database. Everything there is copyrighted. Only home videos (not all) aren't. Or even better, you should close youtube totally because it's impossible to stop people uploading copyrighted material.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2010, 13:33 by Dreamframer »

lisafx

« Reply #108 on: June 05, 2010, 13:32 »
0
George Michael offers all his music for free on his own website. You can download it as much as you want.
He is big enough start for you I guess...

I believe the point Microbius is making, unless I am mistaken, is that we all have the right to offer our own work for free (like George Michael, etc.).  We just don't have the right to post other people's copyrighted work for free.

Surely if everyone could use other people's intellectual property for free without permission or compensation we would not have any market for our images?  

« Reply #109 on: June 05, 2010, 13:39 »
0
I know what he wants to say. I just want to say that it seems to me that you guys don't get that half of the world is flooded with everything pirated. You tube is nothing comparing to billions of dollars in pirated software, movies and everything else.
Thousands of music videos on youtube can only promote the artist on the video. Otherwise, noone would hear for Rihanna in my country, and she could never make a concert here, like she did last year. Yes, she could come, and make a concert for few people, but if there are not things like youtube, almost noone would hear for her. Not everyone has MTV in vast majority of the world population.

lisafx

« Reply #110 on: June 05, 2010, 13:44 »
0
I know what he wants to say. I just want to say that it seems to me that you guys don't get that half of the world is flooded with everything pirated.

Yes, I get that a lot of stuff is pirated.  That doesn't mean I support the pirates.

My mother used to say "If everyone else was jumping off a bridge would you jump off too? "

That's how I see the pirating issue and other issues of illegality.  We each have to have our own set of principles and stick to them.  The excuse "everybody is doing it" doesn't justify illegal behavior.

Microbius

« Reply #111 on: June 05, 2010, 13:47 »
0
Thanks Lisa, I get the impression that no one bothers to even read posts before they reply sometimes.
Oh I get that there's a ton of thievery out there, doesn't make it right though does it?
I think the goalposts have shifted here again. The argument has gone from "it's good for artists so its okay" to "everyone does it so it's okay" when I suspect the real point is "I do it so I have to justify it to myself somehow".
I'm going to give up, as this is turning more into a test of my stamina and patience then any sort of constructive debate.

ETA made this post before Lisa's last one but thought I'd let it stand as is

« Reply #112 on: June 05, 2010, 14:07 »
0
I agree Lisa. The problem is that everything that you guys in AMerica are buying normally, in some parts of the world is not affordable. So, it's not unusual that people are using pirated stuff.
I also don't support it.
I think I am still misunderstood here.
I am saying that RIhanna, for example, knows well that she didn't sell a single album here, but she also knows well that everyone here has her music. And she still came to make a concert. She didn't come here to go from house to house to check if someone stole her music. She came to make a good money for 2 hours of singing.
She wouldn't make that money if people don't know her if they didn't watch youtube and other stuff. So, she took advantage on pirated stuff (like youtube videos).

« Reply #113 on: June 05, 2010, 14:12 »
0
I suspect the real point is "I do it so I have to justify it to myself somehow".
I'm going to give up, as this is turning more into a test of my stamina and patience then any sort of constructive debate.

You are accusing me for something that you don't know. That's not polite, and I think you should apologize before you make any other comment.

I'm trying to explain how stuff works here, and in whole eastern Europe, China, India etc. and you are saying that I'm trying to justify myself.
Everyone here is fighting for his own things. If something is stolen from you, YOU have to fight for it. And other people should fight for their own stolen things.
That's the rule if you want to survive here. Don't expect to be protected from any side. This is not America. Your rules, not matter how correct they are, sound funny here where there are no rules.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2010, 14:24 by Dreamframer »

« Reply #114 on: June 05, 2010, 15:36 »
0
Microbius,

I don't consider I have double standards, but I am not here to change your mind.

Just for clarification, BBC had the original video removed - there is a non-working link to it in that other video I posted. I presume it was an edited version, with other music and narration - still illegal use, of course - just like the one with subtitles.  I'm sure BBC can find it - and I expected they would have.  Maybe they don't bother much these edited copies, with partial content of their original material.

Rapidshare, Torrent and such are meant to be used for piracy, everyone knows that.  It's different from YouTube.  The person who did that edition may not know he was doing something wrong.

Incidently, BBC has been using a watermarked image of mine, which I reported to StockXpert months ago:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/excessbaggage/index_20080105.shtml
But no, the Youtube link was not a revenge against them.  ;D

Microbius

« Reply #115 on: June 06, 2010, 07:31 »
0
You are accusing me for something that you don't know. That's not polite, and I think you should apologize before you make any other comment.

I am sorry that private property seems to be an anathema to you.

I'm trying to explain how stuff works here, and in whole eastern Europe, China, India etc. and you are saying that I'm trying to justify myself.
Everyone here is fighting for his own things. If something is stolen from you, YOU have to fight for it. And other people should fight for their own stolen things.
That's the rule if you want to survive here. Don't expect to be protected from any side. This is not America. Your rules, not matter how correct they are, sound funny here where there are no rules.
Don't fall into Madelaide's trap of blaming everything on the great satan.
And don't taint all your contrymen, and half the world, with the same brush. Not everyone outside Western Europe and the US thinks the same as you.
If I want to fight for the rights of people who have their property (usually their livelyhood in this case) stolen then I will, no matter how much you think everyone should be left to fend for themselves.
PS I am not American, I am based in the UK, and am second generation from one of the countries that you would excuse any moral cupability based on their "lawlessness"

The problem is that everything that you guys in AMerica are buying normally, in some parts of the world is not affordable. So, it's not unusual that people are using pirated stuff.
Your right, if you think something costs too much it's fine to steal it.
Get over yourself. You aren't Jean Valjean, we're talikng about videos and music here-- most of it produced in th US. If can't afford it don't watch it. If the record companies etc. want you to, they can lower the price. Aagain...not...your...proprty...not...your...choice

« Reply #116 on: June 06, 2010, 07:56 »
0
I agree Lisa. The problem is that everything that you guys in AMerica are buying normally, in some parts of the world is not affordable. So, it's not unusual that people are using pirated stuff.

Well, waaaaah.  Sometimes life is rough.

Quote
I also don't support it.

That's good.

« Reply #117 on: June 06, 2010, 12:40 »
0
Microbius, you can think whatever you want, but I live here, and I know that even companies started to use legal software only few years ago. Until then, all companies had even illegal Windows, not to mention Office and the rest.
Your roots are maybe from this parts of the world, but obviously you don't get that even on this forum, nice percent of photographers use cracked PS. I can say I'm lucky to have a legal version of it, and I'm very happy for it, but for example, I don't know anyone from my city who actually use a legal version of it. Do you really think people can afford legal PS if they have 200 euros monthly salary? About 50% of people in Serbia don't even pay national TV, simply because they think it's too expensive, and that's why our national TV tries to sue half of the nation for that. People are thinking exactly this: "If everyone can do it, I can do it". And they are convinced the country can't punish them all. Do you really expect people will pay to Hollywood if they don't pay their own country for tv program?
I worked for a company that introduced legal Windows 2 years ago, and before it we were using illegal version, of course. In nineties all country watched pirated movies even on national television, not to mention local tv stations.
Just jump to any of those pirated websites, and see how many times cracked PS is downloaded. We are talking about tens of thousands times.

So, please, save your story for someone who doesn't live here.
Private property is very important to me, that's why I am posting in this thread, because we are talking about stolen images. Otherwise, I wouldn't say anything. I would probably just think how naive all these photographers are to think that they can keep their images save from theft.
I know how these things work because I live among people where every house with a computer has tens of thousand of dollars in pirated movies, pirated music and cracked software. Here, you can buy DVD's on the street for 3 Euros, filled with cracked software. People are selling them normally. They don't even hide. That's why I know so much about it, and that's why you don't know a dam thing about it. That's why you think that people who use coyrighted material are only minority. For me, picture looks completely different. I see vast majority using cracked everything, and companies that are right now trying to implement minimum of legal software besides windows. They are all using open office and other freebies, just because they don't want expenses on that side.

You say, if you can't afford to watch movies, don't watch them. Well, let me tell you something. I believe San Jose, CA, has more movie theaters than my country altogether. Do you really expect people to sit and cry because they can't watch new movie?? Of course not They will search internet, and find tons of pirated posts with the same movie, and watch it. Some video clubs here still rent pirated movies.
I am trying to say that piracy is much much bigger problem than you guys from the west think. I spent in California 6 months, and I was always west-oriented, and I know both sides. I know that piracy is a taboo for you, and I understand you can't understand that here, piracy is still welcomed. People here don't give a dam for your copyright. You still know only one side.

You are trying to stick the word thief on my back, so everyone could laugh at me, just because I openly talk about these things, and because I live in a society where it's normal to have a collection of pirated movies in your house. I would let you laugh, no problem. But at the same thing, people from the east are laughing at you because you are paying for something they get for free, anytime, the newest version, with tons of plugins and other goodies...even people from this forum who are reading this post, and keep silent. But they are probably smarter than me, because I could also keep it silent, and laugh instead of sharing some of my thoughts with people.
If you list the history of my posts, you will wind that I posted in every single thread about piracy here, because I live in this society and I know so much about it, not because I am a thief. Right now, I can give you a full list of pirated websites, and most of them are Russian. I bet you would be amazed how many of them are online right now.
And so on, and so on....
Actually, I think I won't post about it anymore because obviously I'm the one who suffers from consequences. Why would I spend my time explaining something to someone who doesn't want to understand.

Microbius

« Reply #118 on: June 06, 2010, 13:49 »
0
Trust me no one is laughing at you. Some people will be frustrated at you, like me, but they wont be laughing. A lot of people will also be amazed that anyone is as bothered and naive about this as I am.
You see I have heard all the same arguments not only from people living in poorer countries but from plenty of people over here too, many of who could afford the software etc. but still say it is too expensive (but again, really just because they somehow feel entitled to it for free and try to justify it any way they can).
Almost everyone over here also steals stuff from the internet using torrent sites etc. especially teenagers. The excuses ring as hollow from them as from you. It's the same pathetic justification that people used for stealing material objects too "they're insured so no-one loses out" etc. etc. etc. I'm sure these criminals also love to laugh at the working sucker that slaves away and pays for stuff.
You know what people do over here if they can't afford software? (because you know everywhere else in the world isn't a utopia no matter how self-pitying you are) If they care about stealing they use Gimp, or Open Office or save up, if they don't give a sh*t they just steal it-- download it or buy it on CD from a car boot.  Same as in your country.
If you think the problem is worse over there, all the more reason you should be trying to educate people rather than trying to justify the unjustifiable.

Edited because I don't know the difference between their and they're!
« Last Edit: June 06, 2010, 13:53 by Microbius »

« Reply #119 on: June 06, 2010, 15:56 »
0
I noticed that you keep saying that I am trying to excuse myself. I guess there is no point to repeat that I am not talking about myself here. I am describing the situation in this part of the world.

How come you don't know the difference between their and they're? Are you kidding or..?
« Last Edit: June 06, 2010, 15:58 by Dreamframer »

« Reply #120 on: June 06, 2010, 16:25 »
0
I teach at a university in Melbourne, Australia. Most of my students use pirated software. I discourage it, but it's pretty deeply entrenched. The problem (as I see it) is that it takes quite a mature person to appreciate the ethical issues surrounding intellectual property. By the time people are able to think about it seriously they have been using pirated material for 10 years or more without a qualm. Very difficult for them to repudiate such habitual attitude and behaviour. Besides, most people take their ethics from their peers. Look what ordinary people will do in times of war or disaster.

« Reply #121 on: June 06, 2010, 16:57 »
0
I teach at a university in Melbourne, Australia. Most of my students use pirated software. I discourage it, but it's pretty deeply entrenched. The problem (as I see it) is that it takes quite a mature person to appreciate the ethical issues surrounding intellectual property. By the time people are able to think about it seriously they have been using pirated material for 10 years or more without a qualm. Very difficult for them to repudiate such habitual attitude and behaviour. Besides, most people take their ethics from their peers. Look what ordinary people will do in times of war or disaster.


Exactly. The country is in so deep sh*t, that no one cares about copyright. All you could hear here if you say pirated software and movies is illegal is: "F*ck them, they bombed us and we already paid them for everything". And that's all. I'm sorry I had to say this, but in the end I had to say it, because I didn't know how to explain the difference between people here and people there regarding pirated things. People still get reminded to rockets and NATO bombing 1999 when they hear commercial airplane on the sky. So, we are talking about some kind of revenge here, not just simple stealing of copyrighted material.

But, to go a little back to the subject, I think that youtube thing, and madelaide's post is child's game comparing to some other pirated things. It's waaaay less harmful.


I also found this link that tells about percent of illegal software in Russia. Just check it out.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35298730

The U.S. research firm IDC estimated that about 80 percent of software sold in China last year was pirated.

And here is a table:

43 percent of world software is pirated.

THE NUMBERS: Rates of software piracy -

                          2000    2009
China                   94%    79%
Russia                   88%    67%
Brazil                   58%    56%
World                   37%    43%
Germany                   28%    28%
Japan                  37%    21%   
United States          24%    20%

And this is only for software sold in markets. No one mentions software downloaded from internet. If you want more data you can google for it. This is only for biggest countries as you can see.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2010, 19:40 by Dreamframer »

Microbius

« Reply #122 on: June 07, 2010, 05:20 »
0
I noticed that you keep saying that I am trying to excuse myself. I guess there is no point to repeat that I am not talking about myself here. I am describing the situation in this part of the world.

How come you don't know the difference between their and they're? Are you kidding or..?
I never said that you were trying to excuse yourself, I said that you were trying to excuse software piracy and theft, which anyone that reads this thread can see that you are. It's great that you seem to think that stealing is fine yet for some reason you don't do it yourself, even if you are prepared to type thousands of words about how justified it is (?) If you think the way that you have been saying why are you not copying software, you obviously feel it's fine to do so in you country?!
You are coming up with more and more bizarre justifications now. People are stealing stuff because America bombed them? come on now, do they seriously check the origin of every thing they steal before doing it? "This software was created in Norway so we'll pay for that" while "this was created by the great satan so we'll steal that just to teach him a lesson". The thieves there the same as here and in Australia they wouldn't go to the trouble of crossing the road to get something legally for free if they can steal it for free at home. That's how little the moral dilemma means to them. If confronted, more and more bizarre justifications come out, when challenged the justification shifts.
In the West a thief will always say that things are over priced, when asked how much something should be priced at the price will always be lower then what it is at the moment. The thinking goes "I'm not a thief therefore it can be theft! There must be a good reason why I am doing it!"
We all know that at heart morals are social norms, in deepest peasant China women learn to dispose of girl children as part of their household chores, doesn't make it right though does it? You can't reason that something is correct just because lots of people do it!

ETA ...hang on a minute, didn't you start off saying that pirating people's stuff was good for them!!! wouldn't that mean pirates were helping the people they are supposed to be getting revenge on?

double ETA the they're and their thing wasn't a jibe I actually did type their when I meant to type they're
« Last Edit: June 07, 2010, 05:33 by Microbius »

« Reply #123 on: June 07, 2010, 06:41 »
0
I know that piracy is a taboo for you, and I understand you can't understand that here, piracy is still welcomed. People here don't give a dam for your copyright. You still know only one side.

Uh, we understand it.  You just seem to enjoy writing about how the cultural sense of entitlement justifies it because they aren't willing to pay for it, while we all think the pirates are a bunch of thieving *insult removed*.

« Reply #124 on: June 07, 2010, 06:58 »
0
It is illegal, but it is good in some ways.
When you visit Silicon Valley and see that 90% of all engineers are from China, Russia, Brazil, India, Serbia, Bosnia&Herzegovina, Croatia, Ukraine etc, then we can talk. When you realize that those kids who grew up on pirated software are actually making legal software now you will become a relevant person to talk about it. They could never manage to get to the Silicon Valley and make all those nice effects in Photoshop that you use now if they didn't use pirated software before, because they could never afford it.
Also, all those companies that whine how many billions of dollars they lost due to piracy actually don't tell the truth. Because they could never sell their legal software in those countries where pirated software is used. So, they actually lost much less then they claim. Do you really expect someone from China to buy legal software when they work 12 hours a day without weekend for a fraction of money that western world earns for 40 hours of work per week??
The same thing is with musicians. It's important to them to make money of course, but publicity is even more important. They know very well if there is no piracy, no one in china would never hear for them. Thanks to piracy, they can make a tour in china and earn millions by making concerts.

You have to look a little deeper Microbius. Piracy is illegal, but some people are taking a good advantage of it. Those people are smart.
You can think of me whatever you want. I don't care. The fact is that this thread is read 3187 times till now, and only you and I are the only ones who are exchanging thoughts here.


 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
29 Replies
13114 Views
Last post September 11, 2009, 17:43
by LisaAnderson
21 Replies
6584 Views
Last post April 17, 2008, 11:56
by Dr Bouz
3 Replies
4876 Views
Last post January 12, 2009, 22:29
by bittersweet
18 Replies
18542 Views
Last post March 08, 2014, 18:49
by Uncle Pete
16 Replies
6490 Views
Last post July 22, 2016, 14:42
by Justanotherphotographer

Sponsors

Mega Bundle of 5,900+ Professional Lightroom Presets

Microstock Poll Results

Sponsors