MicrostockGroup
Microstock Photography Forum - General => Image Sleuth => Topic started by: macrosaur on March 26, 2010, 05:06
-
No idea if this was already discussed but i found out that there's a lot of "stock photo packs" released on Rapidshare, they're mainly vectors and hi-res pics taken from iStock and even a couple packs from Getty :
http://www.rapidsharegfx.com/stock/ (http://www.rapidsharegfx.com/stock/)
http://www.rapidsharegfx.com/stock/2560-stockbyte-by-getty-images-sd122-seniors.html (http://www.rapidsharegfx.com/stock/2560-stockbyte-by-getty-images-sd122-seniors.html)
How to deal with this ? :-\
-
How to deal with this ? :-\
The site owner is protected by WhoisGuard, which isn't a good sign, but the site is hosted in Germany.
If you have time to spare, report the link to Rapidshare and the "sharers" will soon upload it again.
Cat and mouse game.
They must earn quite some cash since they have a high rank.
-
If you find any of your images you can notify google and they will disappear from google search, or notify the web host and perhaps the site will be taken down... but first you have to find YOUR images :(
http://blog.microstockgroup.com/help-my-image-has-been-stolen-what-next/ (http://blog.microstockgroup.com/help-my-image-has-been-stolen-what-next/)
If you see any you recognize be sure to notify the owners so they can take action.
-
I mean, shouldn't we feedback iStock and Getty about this ?
Will they act accordingly or they just don't care ?
Years ago Getty was hellbent on lamers and pirates, but i haven't heard about any Getty lawsuit since 2 or 3 years.
-
I just found one of mine. Go to the first rapidshare link above, click on stock photos on the left. go to page 12, the valentines day pack. It's in the 6th row down. I made a screen shot to keep.
The images on page 9 of crazy people look familiar too.
There are 790 pages of this stuff. They have found a way to hide behind technology, that's for sure. A search of valentines day doesn't bring up individual photos, they are all wrapped up in these packs.
I will be sending out some emails today.
-
I found one of lisafx's too on page 25. And a bunch with shutterstock watermarks. I will send some emails to them right now.
-
good !
let us know how it goes !
-
macrosaur, did you send an email to Getty, alerting them to that page that you found?
I sent an email to Shutterstock, as I found some watermarked images. I am asking if this might be a partner site. If it is, then we can call off the dogs. I really wish these sites were more transparent with their partners.
-
Thanks for the headsup Cathy! I have macrosaur on ignore, so I would never have seen this.
I'll investigate and write some letters and see what's up. If I find anything out I will post here.
-
I have macrosaur on ignore
I did too but was interested in what he had to say about this. I have temporarily unignored him...I hate ignoring people but sometimes they just keep posting the same whining and rhetoric, over and over. It's like the boy who cried wolf...then when they do have something important to say, you miss it.
Anyway, I sent emails to IS, SS, DT and BigStock, asking if this was a partner site. IS and BigStock have replied. No, not a partner site. Definitely a bad one, and IS had been notified already by others. CE at IS was kind enough to send me a copy of a cease and desist notice to send to this site. If anyone would like it, PM me.
-
There are many websites that provide cracked software, copyrighted movies and music for download, stock images, e-books...and everything is free. These websites are widely used by more than a half of the world and I think deleting them from google search is not a real solution. Most people have those website in their bookmarks and they don't use google search to find them. In just few clicks I found this....and I found many more..
http://www.dl4all.com/graphic/ (http://www.dl4all.com/graphic/)
-
.
-
There are many websites that provide cracked software, copyrighted movies and music for download, stock images, e-books...and everything is free. These websites are widely used by more than a half of the world and I think deleting them from google search is not a real solution. Most people have those website in their bookmarks and they don't use google search to find them. In just few clicks I found this....and I found many more..
[url]http://www.dl4all.com/graphic/[/url] ([url]http://www.dl4all.com/graphic/[/url])
right, so let the leechers steal our photos and thanks for the biscuits.
-
well then you deserve a * OFF.
and don't bother, you'll never ever hear me again on this board, *.
I'M OFF.
Yeah, that's pretty much why you were ignored. You don't have to leave the board, just realize not all of us want to hear the whining and repetitive rhetoric and negativity and swearing. Just cut the "what you think is shocking language" and you won't get ignored. Simple. And you have exactly the same right as the rest of us...if you don't want to hear what I have to say, by all means, ignore me! Sometimes I don't want to hear what I have to say. :)
Edit: I do appreciate your pointing out these bad sites though. That takes money from ALL of our pockets. We have that in common.
-
I didn't say we have to ignore them of course. I just said there are so many of them that I'm surprised that we here mention just few of them from time to time. In my opinion there should be done something really big to kill all those websites. If Microsoft, Adobe, and other big companies still didn't manage to stop such big part of the world from stealing their software, it's very enthusiastic of us to think that we can stop them stealing our images.
They are stealing our images from companies that sell our images. So, we are not only ones at loss. Why companies don't do something about it? They lose more than we do according to percentage they take by selling our images.
-
Just take a look at this. Here we have tons of links to websites that steal and offer for free everything, including stock images. Almost all of them have our images. And that's probably just a tiny fraction in the sea of piratery.
-
I didn't say we have to ignore them of course.
macrosaur is talking about myself and lisafx saying we were ignoring him. No, no way we should ignore these pirating sites. And I agree, there are likely thousands more, but I'm not going to sit around and do nothing.
-
I didn't say we have to ignore them of course.
macrosaur is talking about myself and lisafx saying we were ignoring him. No, no way we should ignore these pirating sites. And I agree, there are likely thousands more, but I'm not going to sit around and do nothing.
Sorry if I was misunderstood. Macrosaur said: "right, so let the leechers steal our photos and thanks for the biscuits."
That's why I said of course we shouldn't ignore them. It wasn't connected with you two girls ignoring macrosaur :)
-
:)
-
.
-
.
-
?
wow....
-
Like I said, this is why I have him on ignore, and his other alias(s) too.
-
well then you deserve a * OFF.
and don't bother, you'll never ever hear me again on this board, *.
I'M OFF.
Haaha. I called this one.
http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/thinkstockphotos-com-getty-new-family/msg134056/#msg134056 (http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/thinkstockphotos-com-getty-new-family/msg134056/#msg134056)
-
.
I never ignored you by the way. Interesting viewpoints regularly.
-
I didn't say we have to ignore them of course.
macrosaur is talking about myself and lisafx saying we were ignoring him. No, no way we should ignore these pirating sites. And I agree, there are likely thousands more, but I'm not going to sit around and do nothing.
Cclapper, I 'm sure I'm not alone on this but can you leave the Quote info in when you quote somebody? It makes it kind of a pain to go back through the post to try and figure out who you're quoting.
-
.
-
I never ignore anyone automatically. It's much more fun to ignore optionally. ;D
-
I never ignore anyone automatically. It's much more fun to ignore optionally. ;D
.
-
Just once I would love to see somebody who rants about how they are never going to post again actually follow through. ::)
-
Never say never :)
-
I'm never posting again.
-
I'm never posting again.
How about some emotion?
Like "I'm never * posting again"?
-
I'm never posting again.
How about some emotion?
Like "I'm never * posting again"?
I put him on ignore again.
Just for you, Paulie. No, no one has ever actually complained about me not putting the quoter in before. I thought most people read the whole thread. You could put me on ignore! ;)
Too bad this thread has been derailed by the bulls*it. It's pretty important.
-
I put him on ignore again.
He did you a favor by reporting an image sleuth site. :o
-
I'm never posting again.
How about some emotion?
Like "I'm never * posting again"?
Whoops, forgot the emoticon wink... ;)
-
Just for you, Paulie. No, no one has ever actually complained about me not putting the quoter in before. I thought most people read the whole thread. You could put me on ignore! ;)
Too bad this thread has been derailed by the bulls*it. It's pretty important.
I really prefer not to ignore people. I would rather try to work with reasonable people. But you responded exactly as I figured you would.
-
Sean, I just found one of yours on the same site (near bottom of page) listed as being from Shutterstock:
http://www.rapidsharegfx.com/stock/page/2/ (http://www.rapidsharegfx.com/stock/page/2/)
-
.
I never ignored you by the way. Interesting viewpoints regularly.
Likewise, I never ignore anyone. Forums get boring when all the discussion is between like-minded people.
-
SS, eh? That's funny. I'll check it out when I get home. Tx! I tried to go through them yesterday, but it too forever to load.
-
So, on this website we have 793 pages, and every page contains 10 posts. If you click on "read more" link below any post you will see that every post contains 100-200, and sometimes more pictures packed in .rar files. That's total of more that 1 100 000 images stolen from stock sites. I wander how many buyers use websites like this instead of buying our images. It's strange that someone is able to steal more than 1000 000 unnoticed...
-
I'm afraid these guys are just the tip of the iceberg.
I just found some more pirate links with iStock packs :
http://www.downtr.net/59706-istockphoto-vector-300-illustrations-pack.html (http://www.downtr.net/59706-istockphoto-vector-300-illustrations-pack.html)
http://terabitwarez.com/download/istockphoto+vector+illustrations+pack.html (http://terabitwarez.com/download/istockphoto+vector+illustrations+pack.html)
http://www.webdenizi.net/graphic/photoshop/54323-iStockphoto-Vector-300-Illustrations-Pack.html (http://www.webdenizi.net/graphic/photoshop/54323-iStockphoto-Vector-300-Illustrations-Pack.html)
http://win7dl.com/graphics/icons/23796-istockphoto-vector-300-illustrations-pack.html (http://win7dl.com/graphics/icons/23796-istockphoto-vector-300-illustrations-pack.html)
http://www.downarchive.com/graphics/graphic-others/94729-istockphoto-royal-junk-collection.html (http://www.downarchive.com/graphics/graphic-others/94729-istockphoto-royal-junk-collection.html)
if you've time to spare just google for "rapidshare istockphoto pack" (without quotes), most of the results
are spam and redirects but a good 10% are real sites with direct links to .rar files.
(if you've even more time you could try similar queries with "Megaupload" instead of "Rapidshare")
-
Just for you, Paulie. No, no one has ever actually complained about me not putting the quoter in before. I thought most people read the whole thread. You could put me on ignore! ;)
Too bad this thread has been derailed by the bulls*it. It's pretty important.
I really prefer not to ignore people. I would rather try to work with reasonable people. But you responded exactly as I figured you would.
i can admit i'm 50% troll, but i'm also 50% non-troll so either people deal with it
or they better ban me right away.
ignoring people is for guys who have no sense of humour and take the internet
way too seriously.
if we were to meet face to face we would probably be all friends, but let's face it
this is the internet and none of us know each other in the real life, we're not real
friends, we don't even live in the same continent nor we speak natively the same
language, the only thing we have in common is we're stock photographers.
take forums with a grain of salt !
-
wow, look at this :
http://www.downarchive.com/graphics/graphic-others/94729-istockphoto-royal-junk-collection.html (http://www.downarchive.com/graphics/graphic-others/94729-istockphoto-royal-junk-collection.html)
it's a 1.5GB pack (!!) split in a few 200MB .rar files
they also have a HUGE forum : http://www.downarchive.com/forums/ (http://www.downarchive.com/forums/)
-
wow, look at this :
[url]http://www.downarchive.com/graphics/graphic-others/94729-istockphoto-royal-junk-collection.html[/url] ([url]http://www.downarchive.com/graphics/graphic-others/94729-istockphoto-royal-junk-collection.html[/url])
it's a 1.5GB pack (!!) split in a few 200MB .rar files
they also have a HUGE forum : [url]http://www.downarchive.com/forums/[/url] ([url]http://www.downarchive.com/forums/[/url])
Have you informed CE about this?
-
ignoring people is for guys who have no sense of humour and take the internet
way too seriously...
take forums with a grain of salt !
I agree. People are way too serious on here most of the time.
-
Another reason sub sites are garbage is they allow scum to stockpile like this. I'm sure most of the work found in these places is taken from subscription sites. Otherwise why would people spend real money on dl'ing tons of payg just to give it away to strangers on the net?
-
I really prefer not to ignore people. I would rather try to work with reasonable people. But you responded exactly as I figured you would.
Good!
I'm willing to bet I'm not the only person who hit the ignore button for this person (lisafx already copped to it too...no picking on her?).
FD-Amateur...I did acknowledge the fact that macrosaur did us a favor and reported the thread and thanked him for it. Read the posts above. :)
Lisa, I'm going to go look and see if mine are down.
-
So mine was on page 12 and it's gone now, too. Either they have shifted things around, which will mean going through more pages, or they are down. But yesterday when I checked there were 790 pages, today 793. I hope the stock sites are keeping tabs, too.
With all the new sites macrosaur posted today, we sure have our work cut out for us.
Another reason sub sites are garbage is they allow scum to stockpile like this. I'm sure most of the work found in these places is taken from subscription sites.
When I browsed through the first 25 pages yesterday, there were packs with Getty, Comstock, and other watermarks showing. I don't think the thieves are particularly discriminatory.
Edit: yeah, the site is loading really slow today. Maybe all the contributors checking for their work are overloading the servers.
-
I'm afraid these guys are just the tip of the iceberg.
I just found some more pirate links with iStock packs :
[url]http://www.downtr.net/59706-istockphoto-vector-300-illustrations-pack.html[/url] ([url]http://www.downtr.net/59706-istockphoto-vector-300-illustrations-pack.html[/url])
[url]http://terabitwarez.com/download/istockphoto+vector+illustrations+pack.html[/url] ([url]http://terabitwarez.com/download/istockphoto+vector+illustrations+pack.html[/url])
[url]http://www.webdenizi.net/graphic/photoshop/54323-iStockphoto-Vector-300-Illustrations-Pack.html[/url] ([url]http://www.webdenizi.net/graphic/photoshop/54323-iStockphoto-Vector-300-Illustrations-Pack.html[/url])
[url]http://win7dl.com/graphics/icons/23796-istockphoto-vector-300-illustrations-pack.html[/url] ([url]http://win7dl.com/graphics/icons/23796-istockphoto-vector-300-illustrations-pack.html[/url])
[url]http://www.downarchive.com/graphics/graphic-others/94729-istockphoto-royal-junk-collection.html[/url] ([url]http://www.downarchive.com/graphics/graphic-others/94729-istockphoto-royal-junk-collection.html[/url])
if you've time to spare just google for "rapidshare istockphoto pack" (without quotes), most of the results
are spam and redirects but a good 10% are real sites with direct links to .rar files.
(if you've even more time you could try similar queries with "Megaupload" instead of "Rapidshare")
That's what I'm saying. We here report a website like this from time to time, but there are tons of websites like this.
-
I just started at pg 793 and worked backwards to pg 777. In those pages I saw packs with photodisc, veerfancyfresh, digital vision getty, getty, shutterstock, inmagine and brandx watermarks. Just incredible.
-
One way is to report it to rapidshare, megauplaod, deposit files, file factory and other services where these files are stored. They will delete files, but posters will upload them again, and again. So, I think there should be people who work for stock agencies who will search websites like this and just doing on making reports and ask for deletion. Agencies, and photographers are loosing lots of money because of websites like this.
-
Do rapidshare et all really care about this? They surely know they are a repository of illegal material.
-
They know about this problem but they probably wont react until someone point at the problematic files. They make a living out of storing uploaded files, so they need as many uploaded files as possible. Also, many files are archived and under password. They can't brake the password and see the content of the archive. But I know that they will remove the file if someone writes them.
-
I agree that we all need to write when we find our files misused, but it's almost pointless if these hosts continue to allow this kind of abuse. I think it's only going to stop if/when the agencies put some serious legal muscle into having them shut down.
-
It seems like those brilliant microstock entrepreneurs who created the Big 4 have made a real mess of things with subscription plans. When you actually dump your product below cost, there are people waiting to take advantage of that opportunity.
-
I agree with both, Lica and Stocastic.
Lisa, I think that one person who would be paid to search for these kind of websites would pay off quickly. It seems that agencies don't really care much about it. Probably because they get tens of thousands of new images every week from us. Pirates can't really follow that tempo.
-
what's shameful is these guys are doing it fully in the open air ... warez always existed even in the early 80s
but you had to search for it, get hold of physical copies, pay the shipment and the floppies, now with the internet it's literally 2 clicks away, fast, and free.
it can only get worse as people stockpiling with subscriptions are obviously abusing the system.
-
Pirates can't really follow that tempo.
the sad thing is how much time and energy these guys are spending in order to save what ? a 0.10$ subscription for lowres RF images ?
-
Pirates can't really follow that tempo.
the sad thing is how much time and energy these guys are spending in order to save what ? a 0.10$ subscription for lowres RF images ?
Actually, I think stock images are not so important to them. They are sharing everything. By posting popular stuff on their blogs they are earning points for rapidshare and other services. The more people downloaded things they uploaded, the more points they get. The more points they get the more money they get from rapidshare. It's all about money. If they have decent amount of downloaders, they can earn decent money this way, especially if they live in poor parts of the world.
-
Edit: yeah, the site is loading really slow today. Maybe all the contributors checking for their work are overloading the servers.
With 400 people here, it's possible to launch a DOS-attack to their servers without too much load on your own PC. ;D
They aren't that strong since the main bandwidth goes to RapidShare. You can suck them dry. You can report the links to RapidShare with the proper wording and Rapidshare is known to act rapidly. You can't stop them totally but you can make their life miserable.
-
even if you shut down rapidshare and megaupload they're sharing many files also on Torrent networks,
take a look at these shutterstock packs here :
http://www.demonoid.com/files/?query=shutterstock (http://www.demonoid.com/files/?query=shutterstock)
(try also searching for "istockphoto", "corbis", or just "stock")
-
these guys also spend time photoshopping a cover image !
(http://i39.tinypic.com/2qtffh0.jpg)
http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1902686/4651332/ (http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/1902686/4651332/)
and read the user comments ... "Thank you so much for all your stock photos that you have uploaded!
I am an avid photoshop user, and sxc.hu does not always meet my needs!
Thank you so much for your commitment and hard work!"
... so SXC sucks but paying 1$ on SS or IS is too expensive for them ??
-
this guy seems to be the author of the SS pack discussed above , he has a lot more on his web site :
http://fahmy.tk/ (http://fahmy.tk/)
-
IMPORTANT: the images have not been taken down, the order has just been shifted. I just found my image that was on page 12 is now on page 16.
-
IMPORTANT: the images have not been taken down, the order has just been shifted. I just found my image that was on page 12 is now on page 16.
The Rapidshare link should be the same, so report it to Rapidshare.
-
Well, if the stock sites aren't doing anything about this ,than maybe it is pointless. How can you stop it? I went through the first 10 pages and found a bunch of my images, not about to start emailing everyone, would take forever. They would probably just show me the finger anyway. Best solution is to protect your future and don't sell Subs, or live with it ,because it's not going to stop unless the sites get involved. Not even sure if that will help.
-
IMPORTANT: the images have not been taken down, the order has just been shifted. I just found my image that was on page 12 is now on page 16.
The Rapidshare link should be the same, so report it to Rapidshare.
Done. Sent to several different admins at rapidshare. Sent to the ISP hosting their domain. Sent to istockphoto, shutterstock and dreamstime. They ARE involved.
-
Well, if the stock sites aren't doing anything about this ,than maybe it is pointless. How can you stop it? I went through the first 10 pages and found a bunch of my images, not about to start emailing everyone, would take forever. They would probably just show me the finger anyway. Best solution is to protect your future and don't sell Subs, or live with it ,because it's not going to stop unless the sites get involved. Not even sure if that will help.
I emailed several people, took about 1/2 hour of my time. If you found a bunch of images, think of the lost revenue you are suffering because of this. Sure, they will ALL show us the finger, that's what thieves do.
Please stop pointing the finger at the subs on this! I don't know why everybody is accusing subs...that's not the only problem. There are MANY pages with Getty watermark, brand x watermark, veer watermark, istockphoto watermark...sean locke is, and as far as I know always has been, exclusive with istockphoto. His images can ONLY be downloaded from istock. He is not participating in Thinkstock, as far as I know. Yet his images are there with a shutterstock watermark! This affects every single site and every single contributor!
And the sites ARE involved. And you don't even have to draft the letters! They have been written for you. Many can be found on this forum. All you have to do is provide the link of your stolen image and the link to your copyrighted image.
Do you know the saying "it takes a village to raise a child?" It takes a village to get something to change. We all need to help each other on this. I sound like a cheerleader. ::)
-
Please stop pointing the finger at the subs on this!
I agree. I've downloaded my images from these places and found IS file numbers just as many times as SS.
-
sean locke is, and as far as I know always has been, exclusive with istockphoto. His images can ONLY be downloaded from istock. He is not participating in Thinkstock, as far as I know. Yet his images are there with a shutterstock watermark!
I can't seem to find this one with an SS mark. Can you link me to it again?
-
sean locke is, and as far as I know always has been, exclusive with istockphoto. His images can ONLY be downloaded from istock. He is not participating in Thinkstock, as far as I know. Yet his images are there with a shutterstock watermark!
I can't seem to find this one with an SS mark. Can you link me to it again?
lisafx found it Friday, Sean, and today I discovered they have all moved around. My image was on page 12 and now is on 16 so maybe yours has moved too?
-
As the pages of uploads increase every hour, it seems to shift all content around so your images may not be on the same page as they were a while ago. I sent an email to www.getvn.com (http://www.getvn.com) and got a response back from [email protected]. It is just signed Admin. When you go to the DMCA notice at the bottom of the rapidshare pages and click the link, it takes you to a DCMA policy. There is a link in there that says Send the Written Infringement HERE. That opens up a form that goes to Admin. Apparently getvn is rapidshare.
This is so phony I cannot believe people can get away with this stuff. Very frustrating, that's for sure.
EDIT: After providing a screenshot of my image on the page, I received an email back from the above saying it has been removed. After searching pg 16 and a few before and after, I do not see it. But they are definitely shuffling content all the time. What is on page 1 right now is not what was there this morning. In fact, right now, there is an image pack with Dreamstime's logo on it.
-
IMPORTANT: the images have not been taken down, the order has just been shifted. I just found my image that was on page 12 is now on page 16.
The Rapidshare link should be the same, so report it to Rapidshare.
yes but it will be a neverending cat & mouse game.
what we need is SS, IS, Getty, Corbis, making some legal move in order to shut down these sites.
besides, what's the point in asking rapidshare to take down the files.
THEY are actually hosting pirated/warezed content, why should they ever get out
as innocent "middleman" ?
Rapidshare is a german based company, in the EU we have clear laws about IP
infringment, and judging from the recent lawsuits against YouTube the ones
hosting illegal contents are even more guilty than the guys simply providing links.
-
IMPORTANT: the images have not been taken down, the order has just been shifted. I just found my image that was on page 12 is now on page 16.
The Rapidshare link should be the same, so report it to Rapidshare.
yes but it will be a neverending cat & mouse game.
what we need is SS, IS, Getty, Corbis, making some legal move in order to shut down these sites.
besides, what's the point in asking rapidshare to take down the files.
THEY are actually hosting pirated/warezed content, why should they ever get out
as innocent "middleman" ?
Rapidshare is a german based company, in the EU we have clear laws about IP
infringment, and judging from the recent lawsuits against YouTube the ones
hosting illegal contents are even more guilty than the guys simply providing links.
I agree but I feel I must do something rather than nothing at all.
According to whois, the nameserver for this company is www.enom.com (http://www.enom.com) (I think). I sent them a DMCA notice, too. It's kind of like shell corporations...you can never really get to the bottom of anything because it all disguised in another phony layer.
-
Well, if the stock sites aren't doing anything about this ,than maybe it is pointless. How can you stop it? I went through the first 10 pages and found a bunch of my images, not about to start emailing everyone, would take forever. They would probably just show me the finger anyway. Best solution is to protect your future and don't sell Subs, or live with it ,because it's not going to stop unless the sites get involved. Not even sure if that will help.
you CAN stop it.
once you throw the spam out what do we have ? 20-30 big sites with tons of links
and dozens of well known and less known "storage sites", then you have 10 or 20
torrent "trackers" sites with the same stuff shared on BitTorrent.
all together it's maybe 100 sites and if you shut them down they're gone forever,
and don't tell me about china or india, these guys are all hosted in EU or US.
agencies are not moving a finger because they can't even know for sure
how much is the damage done, and they also know that sueing teenagers
sharing pirated photos will cost them more than what they can eventually
gain.
-
Well, if the stock sites aren't doing anything about this ,than maybe it is pointless. How can you stop it? I went through the first 10 pages and found a bunch of my images, not about to start emailing everyone, would take forever. They would probably just show me the finger anyway. Best solution is to protect your future and don't sell Subs, or live with it ,because it's not going to stop unless the sites get involved. Not even sure if that will help.
never say never.
in another photo blog, where i've got banned because of other silly reasons, i spoke with the
guy who shot the images on istock that got notorious for the "BNP scandal" in UK months ago,
and he said that all he did was sending an email to iStock.
-
Subs are certainly to blame, i can't see any other way for the leechers to grab 1000s of images
from stocks and it can't be a random occurrance that most of the images come from Shutterstock.
-
DMCA notices will lead you nowhere.
-
Yes, they keep stealing and uploading new images every day. But this is just one website.
Do we agree to search internet every day and report it to rapidshare, megauplaod and others everyday about things like this? We shouldn't stop after shutting down these links today.
-
Subs are certainly to blame, i can't see any other way for the leechers to grab 1000s of images
from stocks and it can't be a random occurrance that most of the images come from Shutterstock.
I would assume they come from a variety of sources. Saying it is all subs seems short sited. Employees can swipe their company's purchased stock images and style guide images. Credit card fraud probably contributes as well. I assume some of these people use file sharing and just keep accumulating files from a variety of sources. They may not have purchased any of them.
-
some more
http://www.heroturko.org/ (http://www.heroturko.org/)
http://www.gfxtra.com/ (http://www.gfxtra.com/)
http://www.trsohbet.com/ (http://www.trsohbet.com/)
http://www.downeu.com/ (http://www.downeu.com/)
http://www.downturk.info/ (http://www.downturk.info/)
http://downloadbox.org/ (http://downloadbox.org/)
all over 100k hits a day, the top one 230k which is more than bigstock gets
all them are linking to the same stuff. I always wondered how hard it would be to run a spider like thing trawling through their pages finding everything with http://rapidshare/... (http://rapidshare/...) etc (most are text not links) for each of the main sites and send a list to rapidshare here's 50000 copyright infringements please take down :)
-
some more
[url]http://www.heroturko.org/[/url] ([url]http://www.heroturko.org/[/url])
[url]http://www.gfxtra.com/[/url] ([url]http://www.gfxtra.com/[/url])
[url]http://www.trsohbet.com/[/url] ([url]http://www.trsohbet.com/[/url])
[url]http://www.downeu.com/[/url] ([url]http://www.downeu.com/[/url])
[url]http://www.downturk.info/[/url] ([url]http://www.downturk.info/[/url])
[url]http://downloadbox.org/[/url] ([url]http://downloadbox.org/[/url])
all over 100k hits a day, the top one 230k which is more than bigstock gets
all them are linking to the same stuff. I always wondered how hard it would be to run a spider like thing trawling through their pages finding everything with [url]http://rapidshare/...[/url] ([url]http://rapidshare/...[/url]) etc (most are text not links) for each of the main sites and send a list to rapidshare here's 50000 copyright infringements please take down :)
Spiders don't search in zip or rar files... or am i wrong.?.
Patrick.
-
the sites list links (although looking through it is often not actual link, just a line of text) to the zip/rar files so I wondered if soemthing that read the text would be able to extract all the links from each page
-
Subs are certainly to blame, i can't see any other way for the leechers to grab 1000s of images
from stocks and it can't be a random occurrance that most of the images come from Shutterstock.
Agree, It doesn't make sense to me that someone would pay $25.00 PPD for an XXL size and then give it away for free. Yes, there is Istock content on there as well as other sites, but I bet the bulk of it comes from subs. If Sean was submitting to SS, his stuff would be all over that site. Like I said, I found a bunch of my images on the first ten pages, I'm not about to go though 800 pages and send emails. It's totally out of control. The movie "300" comes to mind. How many sites are there like this?
-
A friend of mine send me dozens of links everyday to movie and music CDs/DVDs and software, in rapidshare and such. I've told him about the IP disrespect, but he doesn't care. My colleagues at work often talk about the latest video download they got.
-
Subs are certainly to blame, i can't see any other way for the leechers to grab 1000s of images
from stocks and it can't be a random occurrance that most of the images come from Shutterstock.
Agree, It doesn't make sense to me that someone would pay $25.00 PPD for an XXL size and then give it away for free. Yes, there is Istock content on there as well as other sites, but I bet the bulk of it comes from subs. If Sean was submitting to SS, his stuff would be all over that site. Like I said, I found a bunch of my images on the first ten pages, I'm not about to go though 800 pages and send emails. It's totally out of control. The movie "300" comes to mind. How many sites are there like this?
there is plenty of macro RF, Macro RF Cd's and even some rights managed images there (and 000's of istock). I think it would be more employer has paid, not the person uploading it.
-
Many of these are probably stolen using trojan viruses and stealing other peoples usernames and password, stealing credit cards information and that sort of things. How many times we heard here about hijacked accounts.
But again, they can buy more images on subs websites, of course.
-
the big question remains ... how should we react ? and will Getty or iStock move a finger
against these sites or just say thank you for the feedback and good bye ?
they always knew there's a ton of pirated image packs on the net, it can't be a shocking news for them.
on the other side, if the agencies are really "representing" us it would be fair to expect
a bold move from their legal department and especially from Getty.
did anyone wrote already to iStock and Getty ?
any news ? any reply received ?
-
the big question remains ... how should we react ? and will Getty or iStock move a finger
against these sites or just say thank you for the feedback and good bye ?
did anyone wrote already to iStock and Getty ?
any news ? any reply received ?
It's irrelevant whether anyone or 500 other people did or not. Did you? And when i say "you", I mean every single person on this forum who is a contributor to ANY stock site.
-
I haven't read every single post here and don't know for sure if this was addressed:
The agencies sell images on our behalf. We don't sell. They do. We authorize them to do so.
So whose job is it to go after people who got a hold of these images and then offer them for free? Us?
Yes it is infringing our copyright but, again, we're the ones working for free (doing the research) in favor of the agencies. Once we see our images for free we let the agencies know so they can take action (or not - since it is out copyright), but they are the ones possibly losing money as well.
I think by now every major stock site should have agreements with rapidshare, megaupload, hotfile etc. that any upload/post with their (trademarked!) name in it will be sent for review before going live. Hell, the agencies could even pay for that service just to eliminate a significant bunch of such postings. But again, I don't see serious efforts on the agencies' side.
These day you have to be proactive to stay ahead of the game. Just reacting will eventually push you out of the competition.
And since many here are complaining that subs are the reason for all this (I don't think that subs are the sole reason...) then you need to pull your images off the agency that offers subs - period (if you're exclusive with one of them and have no way to opt out, it shows painfully what we (you) signed for...).
As I posted before, the agencies want to make money in every way possible. If it means selling subs then they will do that as well. THEY want to make money/stay competitive but it all goes to the cost of the contributors.
We can not control price changes, the agencies do that (for us?). They cover their costs and maintain their salaries by adjusting prices. We can't do that. All we are supposed to do is shoot more (a lot more), upload/edit/keyword faster and be prepared to take pay cuts in terms of commissions. This is inevitable for every photographer unless you have a 99.9% streamlined business which many of us don't have (as there are still things happening called "life").
-
Obviously agencies are not so unhappy with money they already earn.
-
Obviously agencies are not so unhappy with money they already earn.
That's exactly right. If it ain't broken, don't fix it (no matter how much the contributors complain...).
-
I haven't read every single post here and don't know for sure if this was addressed:
The agencies sell images on our behalf. We don't sell. They do. We authorize them to do so.
So whose job is it to go after people who got a hold of these images and then offer them for free? Us?
Yes it is infringing our copyright but, again, we're the ones working for free (doing the research) in favor of the agencies. Once we see our images for free we let the agencies know so they can take action (or not - since it is out copyright), but they are the ones possibly losing money as well.
I think by now every major stock site should have agreements with rapidshare, megaupload, hotfile etc. that any upload/post with their (trademarked!) name in it will be sent for review before going live. Hell, the agencies could even pay for that service just to eliminate a significant bunch of such postings. But again, I don't see serious efforts on the agencies' side.
I completely agree. It is the agency's job to pursue this. They all get 60% or more of the revenue generated by our images. They should put forward the effort to protect them.
I don't see how it would be especially difficult or costly to implement the type of agreement Click_Click is suggesting with rapidshare, etc. There just has to be the motivation to do it. Maybe when they lose enough money and market share to these illegal sharing sites they might do something about it.
Meanwhile, as much as I resent the time it takes, it seems like our best course of action is to deal with these things as they crop up, while trying not to drive ourselves crazy.
On the subscription issue, it is pretty obvious from the variety of watermarks on these images, and the presence of Istock (completely)exclusive images that the issue goes way beyond just subs.
-
Whilst piracy is an issue, I doubt that it is significantly damaging our revenues - in so much as I do not believe that many clients who would otherwise buy stock photos are choosing, instead, to use pirated content. I do not think that sales are being lost.
I do not believe that the relative availability of pirated images necessarily points to a significant demand for pirated stock photos to be used commercially.
I am also in no doubt that the best way of discouraging the use of pirated stock photos is by bringing users into the system via free and cheap content including subscriptions.
I think it could even be argued that the use of stolen content ultimately encourages sales via encouraging the use of stock content in general.
All businesses have to factor in a degree of theft. I'll bet there are people even on this thread who at sometime have used pirated software or watched a pirated movie or ripped a cd.
-
Sorry for posting here but could not start a new topic (new members are not allowed?) and I hope I help.
In this video there are 2 istock photos with the istock watermark, probably never paid for.
Special Joint Announcement from Perry & Google (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCywQy1cCgU&feature=player_embedded#)
The guy is making millions in adwords advertising and coaching.
If anyone is interested, please take the necessary measures.
-
A friend of mine send me dozens of links everyday to movie and music CDs/DVDs and software, in rapidshare and such. I've told him about the IP disrespect, but he doesn't care. My colleagues at work often talk about the latest video download they got.
I remember when you posted a nature video on this forum featuring stolen bbc documentary clips with the message "watch it before it gets taken down again because of the copyright infringement" (I'm paraphrasing) so it's not just your "friends" that don't care is it?
ETA oh here it is http://www.microstockgroup.com/off-topic/we-are-all-one/msg144486/#msg144486 (http://www.microstockgroup.com/off-topic/we-are-all-one/msg144486/#msg144486) and there's a few of the people complaining on this thread thanking you for it too!
-
A friend of mine send me dozens of links everyday to movie and music CDs/DVDs and software, in rapidshare and such. I've told him about the IP disrespect, but he doesn't care. My colleagues at work often talk about the latest video download they got.
I remember when you posted a nature video on this forum featuring stolen bbc documentary clips with the message "watch it before it gets taken down again because of the copyright infringement" (I'm paraphrasing) so it's not just your "friends" that don't care is it?
ETA oh here it is [url]http://www.microstockgroup.com/off-topic/we-are-all-one/msg144486/#msg144486[/url] ([url]http://www.microstockgroup.com/off-topic/we-are-all-one/msg144486/#msg144486[/url]) and there's a few of the people complaining on this thread thanking you for it too!
Yes, that's true. But it's not Maria's fault that copyrighted track found it's place on youtube. Actually, youtube should have much better control over everything that is uploaded.
If program like windows media player, or winamp, or any other player, can recognize songs and albums, and pull all information about them from Internet, than youtube can do it for sure.....just they don't care, cause without all that content no one would watch youtube.
They are "trying" to inform users that some track is copyrighted, but they actually don't care until some PRO agency like ASCAP or BMI reacts.
Authors are informing ASCAP or BMI when they find their tracks used without their permission, and those agencies react the same moment.
Microstock agencies could do the same for us, why not?
It costs I know, but they get the biggest piece of the cake, so I think they could afford paying one person just to search internet for pirated stock photos. I think one person would be enough for all agencies, altogether.
-
Sean did address him as Marco in some fairly recent thread, so I'm guessing his identity was on open secret.
-
A friend of mine send me dozens of links everyday to movie and music CDs/DVDs and software, in rapidshare and such. I've told him about the IP disrespect, but he doesn't care. My colleagues at work often talk about the latest video download they got.
I remember when you posted a nature video on this forum featuring stolen bbc documentary clips with the message "watch it before it gets taken down again because of the copyright infringement" (I'm paraphrasing) so it's not just your "friends" that don't care is it?
ETA oh here it is [url]http://www.microstockgroup.com/off-topic/we-are-all-one/msg144486/#msg144486[/url] ([url]http://www.microstockgroup.com/off-topic/we-are-all-one/msg144486/#msg144486[/url]) and there's a few of the people complaining on this thread thanking you for it too!
If you consider viewing a low res video that BBC could have had YouTube to remove (it hasn't, maybe it's also online in their website or at Youtube itself) the same as sharing software/DVD/CD containt without control...
-
Yes, that's true. But it's not Maria's fault that copyrighted track found it's place on youtube. Actually, youtube should have much better control over everything that is uploaded.
And it's not the fault of the websites stealing our work that it has appeared on Rapidshare, they are also just "pointing it out" to people.
-
If you consider viewing a low res video that BBC could have had YouTube to remove (it hasn't, maybe it's also online in their website or at Youtube itself) the same as sharing software/DVD/CD containt without control...
You said yourself they already had it removed once so you knew they didn't want it up there. The BBC has better things to do with my license fee money then endlessly chase down thieves on Youtube.
I just find it a bit rich when people complain about other people stealing their work but have no qualms about doing the same thing.
What difference does the resolution make, the fact is that video infringes copyright, by your own admission you knew it did, and you still linked to it. Exactly the same as someone linking to our work on rapidshare and saying "well it's not my fault, IStock could have had it removed"
It's all this hypocrisy and double standards that clouds the issue and makes it harder to educate people.
-
If you consider viewing a low res video that BBC could have had YouTube to remove (it hasn't, maybe it's also online in their website or at Youtube itself) the same as sharing software/DVD/CD containt without control...
You said yourself they already had it removed once so you knew they didn't want it up there. The BBC has better things to do with my license fee money then endlessly chase down thieves on Youtube.
I just find it a bit rich when people complain about other people stealing their work but have no qualms about doing the same thing.
What difference does the resolution make, the fact is that video infringes copyright, by your own admission you knew it did, and you still linked to it. Exactly the same as someone linking to our work on rapidshare and saying "well it's not my fault, IStock could have had it removed"
It's all this hypocrisy and double standards that clouds the issue and makes it harder to educate people.
You are not right. It's more like someone is pointing of your watermarked images than to full res images. Seeing something on youtube is more a "preview" than theft. Otherwise, agents of all celebrities would easily pull down all music videos from youtube. But downloading a full res music video from rapidshare is theft.
Did you see Yaymicro's presentation on youtube? It's full of our images without watermark, and they are changing like a slide show. That's is not theft. That is a presentation, because it's on youtube.
-
Sorry but no, you're wrong. I don't get the watermarked image statement at all. If someone was using your images illegally, watermarked or not you wouldn't be happy.
It is not okay to help yourself to copyrighted material to use on you tube. It belongs to the copyright owner and you don't have the right to use it without permission.
Yay could use the photos because we signed up to letting them use our work for promotional use.
That is such a nonsensical argument it's amazing. For one thing youtube now also hosts HD videos, where you you draw the line? The resolution something is shown it is totally irrelevant to whether it's theft or not. It's the category of use that matters.
Otherwise mobile phone companies could take whatever they wanted for low res mobile wallpapers or apps etc.
There have been ongoing battles with record promoters to get their music and videos removed from YouTube. It happens constantly.
You're trying very hard to justify something that's actually very clear cut. Please reread my last statement, the BBC have already had that video taken down once and Madelaide knew that when she posted the original link.
-
Youtube is for promotion, otherwise you couldn't find millions of copies of the same music video on it. It's good for artists. It doesn't really harm their publicity.
what I want to say is, it is illegal, but artists love it because it's good for their publicity.
-
Yeah artists love it when people use their work without permission. That's why we're so overjoyed when we find our work stolen and posted all over the internet.
It's not for me you or anyone but the copyright holder to decide whether it is for their own good or not. The fact is record companies spend an awful lot of time getting videos and soundtracks removed from youtube etc. Why would anyone want to publicise their work to people that aren't gonna buy it anyway because they, like you, somehow manage to justify it as "illegal" but fine to nick their stuff. Please find me one artist that has said they like it when people copy their work without permission!
I can think of plenty of examples of people giving away work for free, but that's the difference, they give it away. They have control of their art and are the ones who should be making the decisions.
Your argument is the same lame one used by all the pirates and thieves out there. It's so illogical, and patently untrue, that I can't believe you're still persisting with it. The work isn't yours to post on youtube or not. You don't get to make that choice.
-
George Michael offers all his music for free on his own website. You can download it as much as you want.
He is big enough start for you I guess...
-
Than youtube shoud erase 90% of their database. Everything there is copyrighted. Only home videos (not all) aren't. Or even better, you should close youtube totally because it's impossible to stop people uploading copyrighted material.
-
George Michael offers all his music for free on his own website. You can download it as much as you want.
He is big enough start for you I guess...
I believe the point Microbius is making, unless I am mistaken, is that we all have the right to offer our own work for free (like George Michael, etc.). We just don't have the right to post other people's copyrighted work for free.
Surely if everyone could use other people's intellectual property for free without permission or compensation we would not have any market for our images?
-
I know what he wants to say. I just want to say that it seems to me that you guys don't get that half of the world is flooded with everything pirated. You tube is nothing comparing to billions of dollars in pirated software, movies and everything else.
Thousands of music videos on youtube can only promote the artist on the video. Otherwise, noone would hear for Rihanna in my country, and she could never make a concert here, like she did last year. Yes, she could come, and make a concert for few people, but if there are not things like youtube, almost noone would hear for her. Not everyone has MTV in vast majority of the world population.
-
I know what he wants to say. I just want to say that it seems to me that you guys don't get that half of the world is flooded with everything pirated.
Yes, I get that a lot of stuff is pirated. That doesn't mean I support the pirates.
My mother used to say "If everyone else was jumping off a bridge would you jump off too? "
That's how I see the pirating issue and other issues of illegality. We each have to have our own set of principles and stick to them. The excuse "everybody is doing it" doesn't justify illegal behavior.
-
Thanks Lisa, I get the impression that no one bothers to even read posts before they reply sometimes.
Oh I get that there's a ton of thievery out there, doesn't make it right though does it?
I think the goalposts have shifted here again. The argument has gone from "it's good for artists so its okay" to "everyone does it so it's okay" when I suspect the real point is "I do it so I have to justify it to myself somehow".
I'm going to give up, as this is turning more into a test of my stamina and patience then any sort of constructive debate.
ETA made this post before Lisa's last one but thought I'd let it stand as is
-
I agree Lisa. The problem is that everything that you guys in AMerica are buying normally, in some parts of the world is not affordable. So, it's not unusual that people are using pirated stuff.
I also don't support it.
I think I am still misunderstood here.
I am saying that RIhanna, for example, knows well that she didn't sell a single album here, but she also knows well that everyone here has her music. And she still came to make a concert. She didn't come here to go from house to house to check if someone stole her music. She came to make a good money for 2 hours of singing.
She wouldn't make that money if people don't know her if they didn't watch youtube and other stuff. So, she took advantage on pirated stuff (like youtube videos).
-
I suspect the real point is "I do it so I have to justify it to myself somehow".
I'm going to give up, as this is turning more into a test of my stamina and patience then any sort of constructive debate.
You are accusing me for something that you don't know. That's not polite, and I think you should apologize before you make any other comment.
I'm trying to explain how stuff works here, and in whole eastern Europe, China, India etc. and you are saying that I'm trying to justify myself.
Everyone here is fighting for his own things. If something is stolen from you, YOU have to fight for it. And other people should fight for their own stolen things.
That's the rule if you want to survive here. Don't expect to be protected from any side. This is not America. Your rules, not matter how correct they are, sound funny here where there are no rules.
-
Microbius,
I don't consider I have double standards, but I am not here to change your mind.
Just for clarification, BBC had the original video removed - there is a non-working link to it in that other video I posted. I presume it was an edited version, with other music and narration - still illegal use, of course - just like the one with subtitles. I'm sure BBC can find it - and I expected they would have. Maybe they don't bother much these edited copies, with partial content of their original material.
Rapidshare, Torrent and such are meant to be used for piracy, everyone knows that. It's different from YouTube. The person who did that edition may not know he was doing something wrong.
Incidently, BBC has been using a watermarked image of mine, which I reported to StockXpert months ago:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/excessbaggage/index_20080105.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/excessbaggage/index_20080105.shtml)
But no, the Youtube link was not a revenge against them. ;D
-
You are accusing me for something that you don't know. That's not polite, and I think you should apologize before you make any other comment.
I am sorry that private property seems to be an anathema to you.
I'm trying to explain how stuff works here, and in whole eastern Europe, China, India etc. and you are saying that I'm trying to justify myself.
Everyone here is fighting for his own things. If something is stolen from you, YOU have to fight for it. And other people should fight for their own stolen things.
That's the rule if you want to survive here. Don't expect to be protected from any side. This is not America. Your rules, not matter how correct they are, sound funny here where there are no rules.
Don't fall into Madelaide's trap of blaming everything on the great satan.
And don't taint all your contrymen, and half the world, with the same brush. Not everyone outside Western Europe and the US thinks the same as you.
If I want to fight for the rights of people who have their property (usually their livelyhood in this case) stolen then I will, no matter how much you think everyone should be left to fend for themselves.
PS I am not American, I am based in the UK, and am second generation from one of the countries that you would excuse any moral cupability based on their "lawlessness"
The problem is that everything that you guys in AMerica are buying normally, in some parts of the world is not affordable. So, it's not unusual that people are using pirated stuff.
Your right, if you think something costs too much it's fine to steal it.
Get over yourself. You aren't Jean Valjean, we're talikng about videos and music here-- most of it produced in th US. If can't afford it don't watch it. If the record companies etc. want you to, they can lower the price. Aagain...not...your...proprty...not...your...choice
-
I agree Lisa. The problem is that everything that you guys in AMerica are buying normally, in some parts of the world is not affordable. So, it's not unusual that people are using pirated stuff.
Well, waaaaah. Sometimes life is rough.
I also don't support it.
That's good.
-
Microbius, you can think whatever you want, but I live here, and I know that even companies started to use legal software only few years ago. Until then, all companies had even illegal Windows, not to mention Office and the rest.
Your roots are maybe from this parts of the world, but obviously you don't get that even on this forum, nice percent of photographers use cracked PS. I can say I'm lucky to have a legal version of it, and I'm very happy for it, but for example, I don't know anyone from my city who actually use a legal version of it. Do you really think people can afford legal PS if they have 200 euros monthly salary? About 50% of people in Serbia don't even pay national TV, simply because they think it's too expensive, and that's why our national TV tries to sue half of the nation for that. People are thinking exactly this: "If everyone can do it, I can do it". And they are convinced the country can't punish them all. Do you really expect people will pay to Hollywood if they don't pay their own country for tv program?
I worked for a company that introduced legal Windows 2 years ago, and before it we were using illegal version, of course. In nineties all country watched pirated movies even on national television, not to mention local tv stations.
Just jump to any of those pirated websites, and see how many times cracked PS is downloaded. We are talking about tens of thousands times.
So, please, save your story for someone who doesn't live here.
Private property is very important to me, that's why I am posting in this thread, because we are talking about stolen images. Otherwise, I wouldn't say anything. I would probably just think how naive all these photographers are to think that they can keep their images save from theft.
I know how these things work because I live among people where every house with a computer has tens of thousand of dollars in pirated movies, pirated music and cracked software. Here, you can buy DVD's on the street for 3 Euros, filled with cracked software. People are selling them normally. They don't even hide. That's why I know so much about it, and that's why you don't know a dam thing about it. That's why you think that people who use coyrighted material are only minority. For me, picture looks completely different. I see vast majority using cracked everything, and companies that are right now trying to implement minimum of legal software besides windows. They are all using open office and other freebies, just because they don't want expenses on that side.
You say, if you can't afford to watch movies, don't watch them. Well, let me tell you something. I believe San Jose, CA, has more movie theaters than my country altogether. Do you really expect people to sit and cry because they can't watch new movie?? Of course not They will search internet, and find tons of pirated posts with the same movie, and watch it. Some video clubs here still rent pirated movies.
I am trying to say that piracy is much much bigger problem than you guys from the west think. I spent in California 6 months, and I was always west-oriented, and I know both sides. I know that piracy is a taboo for you, and I understand you can't understand that here, piracy is still welcomed. People here don't give a dam for your copyright. You still know only one side.
You are trying to stick the word thief on my back, so everyone could laugh at me, just because I openly talk about these things, and because I live in a society where it's normal to have a collection of pirated movies in your house. I would let you laugh, no problem. But at the same thing, people from the east are laughing at you because you are paying for something they get for free, anytime, the newest version, with tons of plugins and other goodies...even people from this forum who are reading this post, and keep silent. But they are probably smarter than me, because I could also keep it silent, and laugh instead of sharing some of my thoughts with people.
If you list the history of my posts, you will wind that I posted in every single thread about piracy here, because I live in this society and I know so much about it, not because I am a thief. Right now, I can give you a full list of pirated websites, and most of them are Russian. I bet you would be amazed how many of them are online right now.
And so on, and so on....
Actually, I think I won't post about it anymore because obviously I'm the one who suffers from consequences. Why would I spend my time explaining something to someone who doesn't want to understand.
-
Trust me no one is laughing at you. Some people will be frustrated at you, like me, but they wont be laughing. A lot of people will also be amazed that anyone is as bothered and naive about this as I am.
You see I have heard all the same arguments not only from people living in poorer countries but from plenty of people over here too, many of who could afford the software etc. but still say it is too expensive (but again, really just because they somehow feel entitled to it for free and try to justify it any way they can).
Almost everyone over here also steals stuff from the internet using torrent sites etc. especially teenagers. The excuses ring as hollow from them as from you. It's the same pathetic justification that people used for stealing material objects too "they're insured so no-one loses out" etc. etc. etc. I'm sure these criminals also love to laugh at the working sucker that slaves away and pays for stuff.
You know what people do over here if they can't afford software? (because you know everywhere else in the world isn't a utopia no matter how self-pitying you are) If they care about stealing they use Gimp, or Open Office or save up, if they don't give a sh*t they just steal it-- download it or buy it on CD from a car boot. Same as in your country.
If you think the problem is worse over there, all the more reason you should be trying to educate people rather than trying to justify the unjustifiable.
Edited because I don't know the difference between their and they're!
-
I noticed that you keep saying that I am trying to excuse myself. I guess there is no point to repeat that I am not talking about myself here. I am describing the situation in this part of the world.
How come you don't know the difference between their and they're? Are you kidding or..?
-
I teach at a university in Melbourne, Australia. Most of my students use pirated software. I discourage it, but it's pretty deeply entrenched. The problem (as I see it) is that it takes quite a mature person to appreciate the ethical issues surrounding intellectual property. By the time people are able to think about it seriously they have been using pirated material for 10 years or more without a qualm. Very difficult for them to repudiate such habitual attitude and behaviour. Besides, most people take their ethics from their peers. Look what ordinary people will do in times of war or disaster.
-
I teach at a university in Melbourne, Australia. Most of my students use pirated software. I discourage it, but it's pretty deeply entrenched. The problem (as I see it) is that it takes quite a mature person to appreciate the ethical issues surrounding intellectual property. By the time people are able to think about it seriously they have been using pirated material for 10 years or more without a qualm. Very difficult for them to repudiate such habitual attitude and behaviour. Besides, most people take their ethics from their peers. Look what ordinary people will do in times of war or disaster.
Exactly. The country is in so deep sh*t, that no one cares about copyright. All you could hear here if you say pirated software and movies is illegal is: "F*ck them, they bombed us and we already paid them for everything". And that's all. I'm sorry I had to say this, but in the end I had to say it, because I didn't know how to explain the difference between people here and people there regarding pirated things. People still get reminded to rockets and NATO bombing 1999 when they hear commercial airplane on the sky. So, we are talking about some kind of revenge here, not just simple stealing of copyrighted material.
But, to go a little back to the subject, I think that youtube thing, and madelaide's post is child's game comparing to some other pirated things. It's waaaay less harmful.
I also found this link that tells about percent of illegal software in Russia. Just check it out.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35298730 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35298730)
The U.S. research firm IDC estimated that about 80 percent of software sold in China last year was pirated.
And here is a table:
43 percent of world software is pirated.
THE NUMBERS: Rates of software piracy -
2000 2009
China 94% 79%
Russia 88% 67%
Brazil 58% 56%
World 37% 43%
Germany 28% 28%
Japan 37% 21%
United States 24% 20%
And this is only for software sold in markets. No one mentions software downloaded from internet. If you want more data you can google for it. This is only for biggest countries as you can see.
-
I noticed that you keep saying that I am trying to excuse myself. I guess there is no point to repeat that I am not talking about myself here. I am describing the situation in this part of the world.
How come you don't know the difference between their and they're? Are you kidding or..?
I never said that you were trying to excuse yourself, I said that you were trying to excuse software piracy and theft, which anyone that reads this thread can see that you are. It's great that you seem to think that stealing is fine yet for some reason you don't do it yourself, even if you are prepared to type thousands of words about how justified it is (?) If you think the way that you have been saying why are you not copying software, you obviously feel it's fine to do so in you country?!
You are coming up with more and more bizarre justifications now. People are stealing stuff because America bombed them? come on now, do they seriously check the origin of every thing they steal before doing it? "This software was created in Norway so we'll pay for that" while "this was created by the great satan so we'll steal that just to teach him a lesson". The thieves there the same as here and in Australia they wouldn't go to the trouble of crossing the road to get something legally for free if they can steal it for free at home. That's how little the moral dilemma means to them. If confronted, more and more bizarre justifications come out, when challenged the justification shifts.
In the West a thief will always say that things are over priced, when asked how much something should be priced at the price will always be lower then what it is at the moment. The thinking goes "I'm not a thief therefore it can be theft! There must be a good reason why I am doing it!"
We all know that at heart morals are social norms, in deepest peasant China women learn to dispose of girl children as part of their household chores, doesn't make it right though does it? You can't reason that something is correct just because lots of people do it!
ETA ...hang on a minute, didn't you start off saying that pirating people's stuff was good for them!!! wouldn't that mean pirates were helping the people they are supposed to be getting revenge on?
double ETA the they're and their thing wasn't a jibe I actually did type their when I meant to type they're
-
I know that piracy is a taboo for you, and I understand you can't understand that here, piracy is still welcomed. People here don't give a dam for your copyright. You still know only one side.
Uh, we understand it. You just seem to enjoy writing about how the cultural sense of entitlement justifies it because they aren't willing to pay for it, while we all think the pirates are a bunch of thieving *insult removed*.
-
It is illegal, but it is good in some ways.
When you visit Silicon Valley and see that 90% of all engineers are from China, Russia, Brazil, India, Serbia, Bosnia&Herzegovina, Croatia, Ukraine etc, then we can talk. When you realize that those kids who grew up on pirated software are actually making legal software now you will become a relevant person to talk about it. They could never manage to get to the Silicon Valley and make all those nice effects in Photoshop that you use now if they didn't use pirated software before, because they could never afford it.
Also, all those companies that whine how many billions of dollars they lost due to piracy actually don't tell the truth. Because they could never sell their legal software in those countries where pirated software is used. So, they actually lost much less then they claim. Do you really expect someone from China to buy legal software when they work 12 hours a day without weekend for a fraction of money that western world earns for 40 hours of work per week??
The same thing is with musicians. It's important to them to make money of course, but publicity is even more important. They know very well if there is no piracy, no one in china would never hear for them. Thanks to piracy, they can make a tour in china and earn millions by making concerts.
You have to look a little deeper Microbius. Piracy is illegal, but some people are taking a good advantage of it. Those people are smart.
You can think of me whatever you want. I don't care. The fact is that this thread is read 3187 times till now, and only you and I are the only ones who are exchanging thoughts here.
-
I know that piracy is a taboo for you, and I understand you can't understand that here, piracy is still welcomed. People here don't give a dam for your copyright. You still know only one side.
Uh, we understand it. You just seem to enjoy writing about how the cultural sense of entitlement justifies it because they aren't willing to pay for it, while we all think the pirates are a bunch of thieving *insult removed*.
Guys, you know what. My, or your posting won't change anything. I will let it this way, because there is no point to argue anymore. I was irritated by Microbius's post how madelaide is hypocrite, and I was trying to say how funny and childish this kind of comment looks to someone who lives here. It actually looks more like a comment from someone who just fall from Mars.... I mean, she is a hypocrite because she posted a video that someone posted on youtube with copyrighted track. Haha, c'mon.
The message on the video was way more important than those few dollars the guy who owns the copyright for the track should get. Maybe we should burn her as a witch, like a Giordano Bruno when he said the Earth is rounded... it was illegal to say such things in that time....
-
Oh yes, I forgot I owe you an explanation why I don't use pirated software.
Well, let's say I'm lucky enough not to have too. I all have now is legal.
Yes, I was using it before, but you also have to know that my country was under embargo for years, and people under embargo are doing all kind of things because it's in human nature to get what they want. You simply couldn't find legal software, or legal anything from western countries. You couldn't even buy any foreign brand for years. I guess you didn't expect I will go fishing all day with my dad.
Of course I was buying pirated video games and other stuff.
I don't know what is bigger crime. To punish all nation with embargo because of few politicians, or to play pirated games?
-
You have to look a little deeper Microbius. Piracy is illegal, but some people are taking a good advantage of it. Those people are smart.
You can think of me whatever you want. I don't care. The fact is that this thread is read 3187 times till now, and only you and I are the only ones who are exchanging thoughts here.
I've been reading the thread but haven't said anything yet. Just watching you two have at it. I understand what both of you are saying...
But I will put my two cents in now. Now matter how you justify it, think that something good is coming from it, proving that the kids who pirated software are now fine, upstanding citizens working in Silicon Valley...it is STILL WRONG AND STILL ILLEGAL. And those of us who pay for software are now paying through our noses, partly because of piracy (and partly because of greed).
Any kind of crime can be justified using your logic, dreamframer. The kid who steals the stereo from your car needed money for a fix, therefore it's ok. The kid who shoplifts a CD really wants to be like his friends so it's OK. The bank robber who needed a quick getaway and stole your car, well it's ok, he needed a ride and didn't have one of his own. Can I hack into your account and steal your commissions? I'm unemployed and I really need the money, therefore it will be ok. I don't think I need to go on.
There is right and wrong in the world. Every person decides which way to go. And those who choose to steal are WRONG. No matter how you justify it, it is wrong and illegal.
edit: the fact that this thread has been read many times yet no one has posted only means that 3180+ people have something more constructive to do than argue about right or wrong. :)
-
I know it's wrong, but it will egsists for years more, and you can just adjust to it and take advantage of it if possible. That's what I'm saying.
People in China live poor lives and don't pay for software and that wont change very soon. People in America live rich lives, and have to pay for software. That's reality.
-
I know it's wrong, but it will egsists for years more, and you can just adjust to it and take advantage of it if possible. That's what I'm saying.
People in China live poor lives and don't pay for software and that wont change very soon. People in America live rich lives, and have to pay for software. That's reality.
We all have a choice. I know it's wrong and there isn't any way I am going to adjust to it or take advantage of it. And to me, it's not a question of money because a person with no conscience can be filty, stinking rich and yet still do the wrong thing.
As far as people in America living rich lives, well, that is certainly true for some but our unemployment rate is at an all-time high and there are plenty of homeless people wandering the streets. I agree we are not as poor as some third world nations, but if it keeps going the way it is, we certainly will be there, with only 2 classes of people, those with and those without. I am guessing when and if that does happen, there will be a drastic increase in all kinds of thievery because it will become a necessity for living, like the point you are trying to make.
-
Please understand, software theft is rampant in the USA and UK too. The people doing it here use the same cr*ppy excuses. Stop trying to make it sound like it only happens in poor countries because they are so disadvantaged. You can justify stealing bread if you are starving, not the latest Brad Pitt film. You are still trying to justify this using totally irrelevant facts. It's like there's this feeling that people are somehow entitled to watch the latest Hollywood blockbuster and listen to the latest lame chart music; depriving them of it is a violation of their human rights. It's not and it's not your property, if you steal it you are a thief. How's the film industry ever going to get anywhere in your country if instead of demanding affordable home grown cinema you just steal movies from the US?
I guess some people can reason logically and care about right and wrong and some people just do what's best for them and try to justify it any way they can after the fact. Frankly I'd have more respect for people that stole it and said "I did it because I don't care about anyone else's rights, I just out for what I get" at least that's a slightly more consistent stance then:
1. It's good for the artist because it promotes their work (not up to you to decide how to market someone else's property, artists that want their stuff marketed in this way give it away themselves)
2. It's okay because stuff cost a lot (it's not your property and you don't have a right to it. If it costs too much market forces will usually sort that out or the provider will go out of business. In any case we aren't talking about food and shelter here, you don't have a right to help yourself to it)
3. It's okay because everyone does it (totally irrelevant to whether it's right or wrong)
4. American's deserve it, it's a punishment (completely contradicts no. 1. above, doesn't explain the lack of interest thieves have in where the software etc. came from and is self contradictory as if true it collectively punishes all American artist and legal purchasers in the same way that the embargo being retaliated against collectively punishes)
ETA sorry Cathy was typing at the same time as you
-
Sorry to say this, but you guys know nothing about third world. You still think people from poor countries will accept the thing that pirated stuff is illegal, and tso they will teach their children that they are not allowed to see what's new in Hollywood? Lol
Crazy.
If you think people just need food and shelter, send your kids here, to grow year by year with no window to the outer world. There is enough food here, and they will have shelter and place to sleep.
I bet they will start downloading Hollywood movies very soon.
-
Sorry to say this, but you guys know nothing about third world. You still think people from poor countries will accept the thing that pirated stuff is illegal, and tso they will teach their children that they are not allowed to see what's new in Hollywood? Lol
Crazy.
If you think people just need food and shelter, send your kids here, to grow year by year with no window to the outer world. There is enough food here, and they will have shelter and place to sleep.
I bet they will start downloading Hollywood movies very soon.
Again, you are tainting everyone in your country with the same brush. I'm sure they aren't all thieves!
You are proving my point brilliantly, you think somehow you are entitled to help yourself to stuff just because other people have it. Excellent. Great lesson to pass on there.
Second you don't live in the third world, not even close. You live in a very well off country with a high HDI score and membership of the council of Europe. The world bank considers Serbia an upper middle income economy. People in your country don't steal because they have to they steal because they are greedy, same as people here.
You could afford to watch films or whatever else legally, just not as much as you would ideally like. You think a good lesson to teach your children is that if you want something and you can't afford it just steal it. God forbid anyone should have to aspire to anything or be encouraged to work hard or save up or understand that they just can't help themselves to things.
-
You are trying to convince me that pirated software is illegal. Why you are doing this anyway? Do you think I don't know that? What is actually your point?
Don't you understand I am trying to justify my people because I know that we have so many talented people, and those talents would be totally wasted if they didn\t see the world thanks to piracy. Now we have more people outside our country than in it. Only in Chicago more than 500 000 Serbs live, and in our country there are only 6 000 000 left. We are leaving the country because it's impossible to live normally here. We also want to watch movies, listen to the music and do other stuff all people are doing. I also plan to leav the country and to take my son with me, because I don't want him to grow up in a society where he can't earn more than 300 euros per month.
I don't believe you really think people would accept the fact that they deserved just to eat, sleep and work, just because they are unlucky to be born in the wrong country. People are already disappointed enough because their own government is screwing their lives for decades. 20 years of my life I spent in the kind of crisis that you'll never see. All that time I knew the modern world egists out there. I knew it, and I would like to see the one who will stop me trying to sneek into it, at least through pirated movies and music.
I learned Russian language in my school, because there was no English. But I managed to learn English by my self exactly by listening western music and watching movies. Do you really thing I would accept to make boudaries around my self because it's illegal to listen foreign music in a country under embargo??
6 years I was traveling in a train for 4-5 hours every weekend on one leg, standing to finish my veterinarian studies. And after it I was faced to the situation that I can't find a job.
The country is falling appart all my life. First, my country was SFR Yugoslavia, than it fell appart and became SR Yugoslavia, than it become Serbia and Montenegro, and then it became Serbia. I was born in one country, grew up in another, served the army in third one, and now I live in fourth country.
Did you hear that 13 Chinese people commited a suicide in an iPod ffactory in last 2 months?
http://www.salon.com/technology/how_the_world_works/2010/05/26/foxconn_no_suicide_pledge (http://www.salon.com/technology/how_the_world_works/2010/05/26/foxconn_no_suicide_pledge)
Do you think they will let their children to stay blind and to work for Apple for generations without a posibillity to see the outter world?
I think no. They will do everything to show their children everything, through pirated movies, music, and everything else, and they don't care about anyones copyright, or intelectual property. You have to understand that. Even if you don't, even if you keep saying it's wrong, you have to know it's wrong just for you. For them it's totally right, because there is no other way. Some people simply don't have a choice.
Even poorest people from western world can collect more money by begging on the street than these people can earn by working 12 hours a day.
-
One more link
http://www.salon.com/technology/how_the_world_works/2010/05/26/foxconn_no_suicide_pledge (http://www.salon.com/technology/how_the_world_works/2010/05/26/foxconn_no_suicide_pledge)
-
I make my living with microstock, you could too as you can obviously afford a computer, software and camera equipment good enough to.
I also live in a country where the cost of living is much, much higher than yours. So to recap I make my living doing something where you would get exactly the same wages as I do only you would be in a country where those wages would mean you could afford to buy pretty much whatever you wanted.
You need to stop feeling so sorry for yourself and just get on with it, and maybe stop encouraging your country men to steal your work.
I thought we moved on when Marx explained that we are people living among people. Your people's society doesn't make them steal, they are their society. Your government sucks? you are your government! Get out there and start making the world a better place instead of whining endlessly and excusing any kind of immorality by how hard your life is. You should try living in sub-Saharan Africa.
-
Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing. I know I can't change the situation here, so I'm leaving. That's what I am trying to say all this time. I don't want to live this way, but I also understand my people, because very few people have a choice here.
-
As someone who has just been reading the back-and-forth exchange between Microbius and Dreamframer, here's my take...
Started out completely in the Microbius camp... I've agreed ideologically with everything he has said.
But by the last posts in this chain I've become convinced that it is impossible to judge Dreamframer without having lived his life in the difficult conditions he's been trapped in. No, I don't condone piracy under any conditions, and it sounds like he also knows it's wrong. It sounds like he wants to live the life the rest of us enjoy, and he's desperately trying to get himself and his son out of the country and into a life that makes it possible to enjoy the things we all can easily buy without even considering piracy.
Those of us in comfortable, safe, less-corrupt areas of the world can sit back and tell him how to live, how to affect change, etc. have no idea what it would take to actually act on those lofty ideals. You're telling him that he is his government and he should change it if he doesn't like it? Easy for you to say, and probably an easy way for him to get killed and make his son a fatherless child.
-
The easy way to start without getting shot is to live a better life. If you don't think stealing is right then don't do it and don't teach your son to do it. That's a great start. Corruption doesn't only go from the top down. All I'm saying is you can't use everyone else around you as an excuse while you provide that same excuse for the next person. If you are one of the "everybody" that "does it" in the statement "everybody does it over here" then you are part of the problem, not some kind of victim of it.
I'm sorry if I came across as saying he should storm the Bastille, all I'm saying is that the least you can do is forgo stealing movies from a country you apparently think is responsible in part for the downfall of your country in order to teach your children that theft is wrong.
-
As someone who has just been reading the back-and-forth exchange between Microbius and Dreamframer, here's my take...
Started out completely in the Microbius camp... I've agreed ideologically with everything he has said.
But by the last posts in this chain I've become convinced that it is impossible to judge Dreamframer without having lived his life in the difficult conditions he's been trapped in. No, I don't condone piracy under any conditions, and it sounds like he also knows it's wrong. It sounds like he wants to live the life the rest of us enjoy, and he's desperately trying to get himself and his son out of the country and into a life that makes it possible to enjoy the things we all can easily buy without even considering piracy.
Those of us in comfortable, safe, less-corrupt areas of the world can sit back and tell him how to live, how to affect change, etc. have no idea what it would take to actually act on those lofty ideals. You're telling him that he is his government and he should change it if he doesn't like it? Easy for you to say, and probably an easy way for him to get killed and make his son a fatherless child.
I think you have summed up both sides fairly. I am in Microbius' camp in that I do not believe that stealing under any circumstance is OK. I am in dreamframer's camp because it is easy for me say, not ever having to live in such a country. I admire dreamframer's courage to want something better for himself.
-
I feel bad carrying this on now but I can't help but feel a slight of hand has just been pulled here, one worthy of a master politician.
We started with theft being justified for all the same reasons as we've all heard 1000s of times and we've ended up in a position where gradually more and more upsetting stories get pulled out till it becomes about how awful life is in Serbia. I've been pulled into it too!
I don't think that that's actually all that relevant, as we've already said, as much theft goes on in Western developed countries as anywhere else. I doubt that you (Dreamframer) thought that it was all that relevant as to why people steal software and movies at the start of this thread either. As the thread has gone on you have tried harder and harder to keep on some kind of moral high ground and convince yourself that somehow there is a virtue in taking this stuff. I've no doubt you believe it now, but then we're men, we tend to get carried away by our anger!
Somewhere along the line we have got to, where exactly? Life is bad so I'm entitled to steal things? I wont go into my own background too much but sufficed to say that my family have also suffered, coming to this country as refugees with literally nothing after suffering rape, torture and all kinds of despicable things. They also taught me never to steal, in fact never to accept benefits from the government that I haven't worked for. Even living 8 people to two rooms, you know what, they worked their butts off, lived morally and bought the rotten veg from market stalls at the end of day. Do I think this is relevant to this argument, no! do I think it would have entitled them to steal, no! (but maybe I would have understood why they might steal food)
This has all gone so far off topic it's untrue, trust me not all poor people in poor countries think it's okay to steal, and some of these people would consider life in Serbia as being pretty comfortable.
-
Boo-hoo, I can't pay $25 to buy "Alice in Wonderland"? Tough.
Again, we _get_ it. They're poor and have no sense of property. We get it. They're thieves because they're entitled to a life of $2 Hollywood movies and free software. Check. We all understand. Doesn't think we have to accept it as the way things should be just because they use their stolen warez to come and program software we all use (which I'm not exactly buying into).
-
Exactly! I just don't want to be in position to have someone to offer me pirated stuff like it's normal, not just because of piracy, but because it pulls many layers of other things that exist in such society. If you want to do something in a normal way, you will find your self in the front of many barriers, and if you want to pass those barriers you have to fill everyone's pocket on the way through it.
I am very happy that I managed to open the door and work on my way out, but I also understand those people who have to stay where they are. Some of them can't get out, some of them are afraid to try, and few of them simply enjoy all goodies they made in such corrupted society.
-
Seems to me that there is nothing more I can add on the "piracy justifiable or not" argument. It has all been said by people more articulate and passionate about it than me.
I must say that I am moved by your descriptions of what life is like in Serbia, Ivan. It isn't all sunshine and roses here in the US anymore, if it ever was. But I certainly have not had to deal with the level of uncertainty and widespread societal corruption you have. I can't imagine having to live that way and I admire you for holding on to your values and doing your best to get yourself and your son out of there.
Wherever you wind up I wish you great success. And maybe your grandchildren will be in a position to grow up without ever knowing the kind of hardships you have. :)
-
I think that those that condemn software, movie or music piracy, and look at all countries as equal should take into consideration some factors.
For example, in EU there's a huge gap between the richest and poorest countries. If you pick as an example two workers, doing the exact same thing, but one in the poorest countries and the other in Germany, you'll see that one in the poor country will earn 600€ and the German 6000€. These are real values.
So, if both of them decide to dedicate to photography the German can buy a very nice camera, computers and software with a month wage. The one in the poorer country... is really lucky if he can afford a basic camera and computer but I seriously doubt that he can buy legal software.
And I know what I'm talking about, because a few years ago I had to save a lot to buy a 3mp canon when in the photographic communities I participated people from richer countries bought 300D canon's by the hundreds as soon as it came out. And I even had a reasonable wage for my country standard. And my story was the same with almost all of the members of my country in that community. Only a couple could afford the 300D.
I'm no saying this for people to feel sorry for me or people in certain countries. But the starting point is not the same for everyone, despite if we all dream the same. Even if we consider emigrate to a richer country it's highly unlikely that we can get a well paid job because our countries simply didn't gave us access to studies.
The difference is that nowadays people in poorer countries have access to a lot of information that was denied in the past, and started to realize the real gap between different countries and do not accept being "second class human beings" just because we live in poorer countries. This is simply a poverty issue and not an honesty one.
And for those who say that the people in these countries should do something to change them, I'll just say that the parties that always win the elections and are terribly corrupt, incompetent and border the traitor are financed by the main German, French and English parties and have huge budgets for the elections campaigns. Besides the fact that the owners of all the TV stations are well known militants of those parties and the coverage they do on the alternative parties are many times pure defamation instead of information. But I don't want to enter into politics.
Despite all the people have the same dreams, not all have the same opportunities, emigration to a richer country is not always the solution and most of the times the citizen is faced against a state that no matter how you work to change things democratically to make your country better you just don't have a chance to compete with multi millions campaigns and the total control of the media.
Poverty is the real crime. Piracy is just a detail.
-
Well Lisa, my aunt with her family moved to Austria, my uncles are in Switzerland and Australia, my best man is in Pennsylvania, and hopefully I will live in California, where you can buy a snowball maker http://www.amazon.com/Sno-Baller-Snowball-Maker-Colors-Vary/dp/B000II4JJ2 (http://www.amazon.com/Sno-Baller-Snowball-Maker-Colors-Vary/dp/B000II4JJ2) lol
I was in the middle of the revolution, fighting with a police in Belgrade in year 2000, when we deposed from power our ex president and dictator Slobodan Milosevis. And then, I was growing a hope the things will change drastically. And things are changing slowly, but life is too short. I can't wait anymore. My son is already 7 y.o.
I'm sorry I sounded like I support piracy. I was just trying to justify people who deserve a better life, but they can't afford it because someone from above is stealing from them every day, because I am part of such people in some way. Several years ago, politicians were buying people's votes on presidential elections for 3 kilos (6 pounds) of sugar. In that situation, who can expect of those people to care about copyright and those things. That was the time when everything started to fall apart.
I believe similar situation is in all ex communists countries. Russia is the first of them to start rising from the mud (or maybe it's just Moscow, who knows)
I believe 90% of piracy is present among poor people. That's why I said the companies are not at the real lost. They could never really sell their products to poor people. And those poor people are not poor because they don't want to work, but because their countries can't make enough jobs for them. Very few of them have luck to escape.
In my country there is a name for phenomenon of smart people leaving the country, and it's called "brain drain". Only now, after so many years of brain drain government is trying to stimulate those scientists who left the country to come back.
Thank you for your wishes!
-
I believe 90% of piracy is present among poor people. That's why I said the companies are not at the real lost. They could never really sell their products to poor people.
That isn't really the point. I don't want someone getting my images from some pirate on cd, and its ok, just because they weren't going to license them anyway.
-
I believe 90% of piracy is present among poor people. That's why I said the companies are not at the real lost. They could never really sell their products to poor people.
That isn't really the point. I don't want someone getting my images from some pirate on cd, and its ok, just because they weren't going to license them anyway.
I've given up on this thread, it seems a sad story is worth a hundred facts or coherent arguments, something politicians worked out a long time ago.
-
My reading of this thread is that Ivan is a bit bemused by the amount of energy people here waste on righteous indignation over an issue that isn't going to go away any time soon and probably doesn't have a significant impact in real terms. It's a pity it has degenerated into finger-pointing and name-calling.
-
My reading of this thread is that Ivan is a bit bemused by the amount of energy people here waste on righteous indignation over an issue that isn't going to go away any time soon and probably doesn't have a significant impact in real terms. It's a pity it has degenerated into finger-pointing and name-calling.
bump!
-
I've given up on this thread, it seems a sad story is worth a hundred facts or coherent arguments, something politicians worked out a long time ago.
I think you're misinterpreting a very important thing. You're interpreting as justification of piracy, what some people are stating as one legitimate explanation for it to happen. And justification is not a synonym of explanation.
So, no matter how factual or coherent you may be in your arguments - and I disagree with piracy - there are far bigger reasons than dishonesty for people to resort to piracy in most cases.
Help solve poverty and most of piracy will vanish, because real thieves and criminals are just a small percentage of the population.
-
I think DF is not saying that using pirated software/CD/DVD is ok, he is just explaining why people may do it even knowing it's wrong, just because they can not afford it. Our maid has pirate cable TV, but then a legal cable TV will cost he at least US$60 per month - a sum she can not dispose. She doesn't need cable TV, but like everything in modern life, people want to have access to this.
In my opinion, the piracy problem is much more than a matter of being able to afford them or not. Most of my colleagues have a life standard that would permit them to buy, and yet most don't buy. I have been laughed at by having purchased my PC with a legal copy of Windows. Why buy if you can get for free - that's their logic.
Price is a reason. They can afford the Playstation games they get, but they think it is not worth it. But the getting for free (or very cheap in the case of pirate DVDs) is now so embedded in people's habits, that only a good reason makes people do otherwise - a cheap offer, free updates (like in Windows).
A friend of mine who buys microstock images for his daughter's school assignments used to buy her pirated movie videocassetes, because they were very expensive and because she insisted in watching them over and over. It's an explanation that also does not justify the action.
PS: Once again, don't assume that life costs are smaller in poorer countries. Probably food is the only cheap thing here. Electronics are heavily taxed, so camera & accessories cost twice what they cost in the USA. A new car, even if manufactured here, doesn't cost less than US$15k. And gasoline, even if we are self-sufficient in oil, costs more than in most euro countries. Friends who live in the USA pay for a rent in a big house less than they would here in a small apartment.
-
I agree that copyright theft is illegal. Ivan wasn't saying it was legal or that he did it. What I believe he was trying to say was that when you have no money and you can not afford or your government does not allow you access to software that could better your education, then most of the people there turn to pirated software. I don't know what it is like to live in a third world country, but I can also understand his point.
Now just to clarify....I don't think copyright infrequent is legal and I don't think he does either he's just trying to explain why it is done where he lives.
-
Interesting...maybe all the bantering on here actually did some good. I just clicked on the OP's original link and this is what I got
Ladies and Gentlemen!
We bring you our apologies. Our site is temporarily under maintenance.
But soon the work site will be resumed.
Administration
-
PS: Once again, don't assume that life costs are smaller in poorer countries.
Exactly. I live in a poor western EU country and I've been buying things from amazon UK that even with shipping cost half of what I would pay here (the exact same product). And much of what I see there is just about the same price we have in the stores and supermarkets from shampoos to LCD TV's.
People in richer countries assume that the cost of living in poorer countries is lower but in many cases it's not. Prices are about the same (for various reasons), but wages are 3, 4 or more, times lower.
Many of the people I know, if they wanted to buy films to enjoy a moment with the family, they would have to choose between the films or clothing. It's as simple as that. Since clothing is essential, but people don't like to feel sub-human and cast aside from the rest of the world, especially when we're bombarded with huge amounts of propaganda of successful people and societies they end up buying pirated movies to feel of being part of it in someway but also to see what's all the fuss about some films too with all the advertising. Again, not an excuse but an explanation.
-
I think that "Our" agencies must screw up this Rapid, Mega, Hotfile servers or whatever they name is in way like music agencies screw Napster few years ago.
Obviously we cant fight with 99% of new degeneric net users who only know how to log in on mail and Myspace or FaceBook and share stolen files, images, movies... thru Rapid and other servers.
I really dont know why that server sites dont erase any user who steal just one file like on stock sites?!? What they are doing?
If you complain for you stolen image they turn that image down (if you are lucky after month or soo) and they retard user have all other thousands of stolen images in his "port" without youre one?????? what???????????
-
@ sjlocke - I doubt poor people need our images. That's why I think our images are stolen by people who are making money on them. I don't see any entertainment in collecting and distributing stock images, and I think it's pretty different than watching pirated movies at home. I mean, the purpose of these two thefts are different.
@Suljo - Rapidshare, Megaupload are legal services, and they are not mentioned to be home for pirated things. But, unfortunately, they are alive thanks to pirated software, and they won't erase anything if someone doesn't make a complaint about specific link that leads to pirated thing. They of course know they are full of cracked programs and pirated movies and music, but they are making lots of money by hosting these files. So, they are pretending they don't see it. Pirates also use passwords to protect their files. They are putting them into password protected rar and zip files, so they can't be scanned by any software.
If we want our images to be saved from free distributing, I think we should search internet everyday, and report any pirated links to rapidshare, Megaupload, or whatever service it is. They MUST delete the file that is pirated. They just won't do it without complaint.
-
very interesting read... not taking sides but...
i agree with XPTO about poverty or lack of money being the main issue.
IMO, selfishness (or self interest) is a major culprit to this dilema. Countries where piracy is rampant has very little copyright infringement laws so there's no FEAR of getting fined or caught from the people downloading. With this type of environment, I can see this creating some sort of normalcy to downloading illegally. These countries usually don't produce the goods that are being stolen. There's little economic benefit for these governments to catch downloaders. As the country gets wealthier and more producers of goods come out of the country, i'm sure they will eventually pressure their government to come up with laws that will protect their income and the taxes the government gets from the sales. Sadly, I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Downloading copyrighted material is wrong. We in the west totally understand and appreciate the hard work that is involved. I think it is a little unfair for us in the west to look at others around the world and expect them to understand this concept when they are not very familiar with what it takes to make movies, songs, art, photos. Content creators are fully aware of what it takes to be commercially profitable, and if the content creators are downloading illegally, you are truly a thief in my eyes.
-
@ sjlocke - I doubt poor people need our images. That's why I think our images are stolen by people who are making money on them. I don't see any entertainment in collecting and distributing stock images, and I think it's pretty different than watching pirated movies at home. I mean, the purpose of these two thefts are different.
@Suljo - Rapidshare, Megaupload are legal services, and they are not mentioned to be home for pirated things. But, unfortunately, they are alive thanks to pirated software, and they won't erase anything if someone doesn't make a complaint about specific link that leads to pirated thing. They of course know they are full of cracked programs and pirated movies and music, but they are making lots of money by hosting these files. So, they are pretending they don't see it. Pirates also use passwords to protect their files. They are putting them into password protected rar and zip files, so they can't be scanned by any software.
If we want our images to be saved from free distributing, I think we should search internet everyday, and report any pirated links to rapidshare, Megaupload, or whatever service it is. They MUST delete the file that is pirated. They just won't do it without complaint.
This all is wrong in first place about.
This "Shares" sites are guilty like Napster, they have stolen copyrigth content on they site, servers whatever. From year to year capacity of disc space cost nothing and I feel that this "Share" sites pay and encourage this new buthead users to fill it up with stollen content without any consequences!!!!
From day to day new creatures are involved in some how to made they "own" jabber Blog crap without any or crappy comments and I think it is not problem with me or that users. Problem is with "share" servers which main purpose is to share they own documents between two and not to share to rest of the world...