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Author Topic: Fotolia D-Day (Deactivation Day) - May,1  (Read 169846 times)

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« Reply #800 on: May 07, 2014, 08:01 »
+6
FT may bring about changes (for the betterment of us contributors) to DPC only if the number of images in DPC drop below a threshold that they would have already calculated. Based on the fact that they offered a concealed OPT-OUT, I think that they have NOT counted on all 28 million FT images to be in DPC. Our only hope is to gently request fellow contributors to consider Opting-Out of DPC (thereby reducing the image count of DPC) until elements of DPC are changed for the better (for contributors).


Dook

« Reply #801 on: May 07, 2014, 08:09 »
0




I don't think you have the history of microstock even close to accurate, and as a result have come to an inaccurate conclusion.

The huge differences are that microstock wasn't offering the same thing to the same audience at lower prices.

Microstock expanded the market by bringing new buyers who couldn't previously afford either stock or custom photo shoots. The shots were initially of very variable quality and for the most part had much lower production values. For some buyers that was a plus because it didn't look as plastic fantastic as some high end stock.

And just as a point of order, 10 years ago Shutterstock paid 20 cents a download, not 25 and iStock paid 10, 20 or 30 cents depending on S-M-L. Dreamstime was 50 cents on the $1 (and I forget if they had two or three sizes). CanStock was a little higher at first.

What Fotolia is doing is offering the same buyers the same product at a lower price - and they didn't ask the owners of the content if it was OK with them first. The lower price part of that is not only the low royalties but the lack of volume - you can buy in for $10 making it a massive giveaway as they get the high volume price for low volume purchases.

It's very very different.

Microstock didn't take existing traditional RF stock buyers overnight. But, in longer run it did. Especialy low budget photos (objects on white, food, lifestyle etc).
Of course, it doesn't matter now. I don't want to hijack the thread anymore. I'm against DPC 100%, so let's keep on the topic - I don't even know why I wrote it. And I chose to be anonimous and, I admit, it's not fair to you, that I keep arguing about anything, it's just not right.

« Reply #802 on: May 07, 2014, 08:38 »
+2
In german FT-forum there are some big players which normally are active there (e.g. complaining about decreasing RPD, etc.) and since the activity against DPC here, they are quiet!!! As I read in a former post I suppose too, that FT has contacted them and they have special deals with them ... it's really a shame!!!
I guess I know whom you're talking about. Give them some more time to consider. Those high volume players also have a load of expenses and therefor probably can't even afford to lose their FT income in the nearer future. I don't even think it's about "special deals", but maybe just a little more information than the rest of us would get. Anyways, we shouldn't judge anyone for their business moves - there are a lot more arguments for people running a large business than the the facts, opinions and predictions posted in here. (Although I personally wished they would pull their contents as well, of course.)
edit: I'll try to reach out to them.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 09:23 by Anja_Kaiser »

« Reply #803 on: May 07, 2014, 08:45 »
+14
I cannot afford loosing my FT income either, but I did opt out of DPC.  Not because I am against Fotolia (Fotolia is my 2nd earner, so how could I be against them?), but because I believe that if a LARGE group of contributors opt out, Fotolia will listen to us.

We talk about Fotolia "changing DPC" in favour of their contributors.  What change would make you opt in again?

In my case it would be :  move DPC more towards big players by raising the 10 $ bar => 100 $.

« Reply #804 on: May 07, 2014, 08:53 »
+2
I cannot afford loosing my FT income either, but I did opt out of DPC.  Not because I am against Fotolia (Fotolia is my 2nd earner, so how could I be against them?), but because I believe that if a LARGE group of contributors opt out, Fotolia will listen to us.
Same here! I'm not trying to defend their decision (as far as they've already made up their mind), I just don't like this to become too personal/a witch hunt. (Esp. as such comments have already been posted at the FT forums as well.) All I wanted to say is that we don't have enough information about what happens behind the scenes in order to judge.

fujiko

« Reply #805 on: May 07, 2014, 09:06 »
+2
FT may bring about changes (for the betterment of us contributors) to DPC only if the number of images in DPC drop below a threshold that they would have already calculated. Based on the fact that they offered a concealed OPT-OUT, I think that they have NOT counted on all 28 million FT images to be in DPC. Our only hope is to gently request fellow contributors to consider Opting-Out of DPC (thereby reducing the image count of DPC) until elements of DPC are changed for the better (for contributors).

In some sites advertising the launch of DPC the number they said the site has is 25+ million. I guess that's the number they calculated they would have after the dust settles and less than 3 million images are opted out.

« Reply #806 on: May 07, 2014, 09:07 »
0
I cannot afford loosing my FT income either, but I did opt out of DPC.  Not because I am against Fotolia (Fotolia is my 2nd earner, so how could I be against them?), but because I believe that if a LARGE group of contributors opt out, Fotolia will listen to us.

We talk about Fotolia "changing DPC" in favour of their contributors.  What change would make you opt in again?

In my case it would be :  move DPC more towards big players by raising the 10 $ bar => 100 $.

for how many pictures?

EmberMike

« Reply #807 on: May 07, 2014, 09:20 »
+19
...we shouldn't judge anyone for their business moves - there are a lot more arguments for people running a large business than the the facts, opinions and predictions posted in here. (Although I personally wished they would pull their contents as well, of course.)

Actually on this one, I'm judging. I know that sounds bad, but I think it's fair in this case. For two reasons: 1.) Opting in or out of DPC is easy, it's just a click on a link. Someone can opt out now in protest and opt back in later. 2.) Opting out now doesn't hurt anyone's income, not significantly anyway. You can opt out now and stay opted out in protest for a week, a month, whatever, and ultimately it costs you, what, a few bucks in DPC sales you might have had? It's fair to ask everyone to make that small sacrifice.

Usually I'd agree that decisions in this business are personal, and are based on things the public doesn't always see or know about. But in this case, there is really no good reason for anyone to stay opted-in right now. You can so easily opt out and opt in again later, it really just makes no sense to stay opted in.

Honestly, in my opinion, being opted in right now is a vote of confidence in the current DPC deal. No one should be surprised if Fotolia changes absolutely nothing about DPC going forward when they have what they could very easily call significant contributor confidence in what they are currently offering based on the number of people still opted in.

« Reply #808 on: May 07, 2014, 09:24 »
+10
...we shouldn't judge anyone for their business moves - there are a lot more arguments for people running a large business than the the facts, opinions and predictions posted in here. (Although I personally wished they would pull their contents as well, of course.)

Actually on this one, I'm judging. I know that sounds bad, but I think it's fair in this case. For two reasons: 1.) Opting in or out of DPC is easy, it's just a click on a link. Someone can opt out now in protest and opt back in later. 2.) Opting out now doesn't hurt anyone's income, not significantly anyway. You can opt out now and stay opted out in protest for a week, a month, whatever, and ultimately it costs you, what, a few bucks in DPC sales you might have had? It's fair to ask everyone to make that small sacrifice.

Usually I'd agree that decisions in this business are personal, and are based on things the public doesn't always see or know about. But in this case, there is really no good reason for anyone to stay opted-in right now. You can so easily opt out and opt in again later, it really just makes no sense to stay opted in.

Honestly, in my opinion, being opted in right now is a vote of confidence in the current DPC deal. No one should be surprised if Fotolia changes absolutely nothing about DPC going forward when they have what they could very easily call significant contributor confidence in what they are currently offering based on the number of people still opted in.

Agree.
I opted out of DPC as soon as it was possible, but i didn't want to sacrifice my Fotolia earnings (yet I deleted a few hundred to support the protest on the 1st of May). After opting out, my Fotolia sales are still coming just as usual.

The thing which could hurt our earnings significantly in the long run is when DPC manages to succeed.
We really have to try everything we can to make it fail.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 09:27 by Desintegrator »

« Reply #809 on: May 07, 2014, 09:32 »
+4
Agreed, Mike.
I already reached out to him (because I noticed his portfolio on the DPC site) a couple of days ago and he told me he was abroad and not yet informed at all. Haven't heard back from him afterwards, but that was why I said he probably needed a little more time.
I'll try to discuss this matter again, although I'll most likely not be able to publicly share.

EmberMike

« Reply #810 on: May 07, 2014, 09:34 »
+6
...The thing which could hurt our earnings significantly in the long run is when DPC manages to succeed.
We really have to try everything we can to make it fail.

Staying opted in is a short-term gain that could ultimately mean long-term loss. It's just not worth it. Opting in really can't be earning anyone that much money right now. DPC is still too new. So why do it?

I have to slightly disagree with your comment about making it fail, though. It doesn't need to fail, it just needs to change. DPC can exist in the market without doing any damage if it's restructured as a real subscription offering. Right now it's basically credit sales with a minor minimum buy-in and subscription royalties. As a real subscription system, with a respectable buy-in, it would be fine.

They should just remove the $10 option. One option, just $99, $1 images. I might still stay out of it, but at least then it wouldn't be as big a threat to the whole market.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 09:37 by EmberMike »

« Reply #811 on: May 07, 2014, 09:39 »
+1
I cannot afford loosing my FT income either, but I did opt out of DPC.  Not because I am against Fotolia (Fotolia is my 2nd earner, so how could I be against them?), but because I believe that if a LARGE group of contributors opt out, Fotolia will listen to us.

We talk about Fotolia "changing DPC" in favour of their contributors.  What change would make you opt in again?

In my case it would be :  move DPC more towards big players by raising the 10 $ bar => 100 $.

for how many pictures?

For 100 images.  I can easily ask an agency to drop a project completely or charge 100$ for 1 image, but that's asking for something they would never do.  If Fotolia would change the essence of DPC (which is 1 image for 1 $), they would loose face.  But if they would raise the bar to 100 images for 100 $, small buyers would be obliged to keep on buying credits.  DPC would become a very simple and effective subscription system.  Buyers who would buy a 100$-set would use it up, even if they only needed 60 images, which is the essence of a subscription system.  Fotolia can implement this without loosing face.  DPC would still be 1 image for 1 dollar.

« Reply #812 on: May 07, 2014, 09:40 »
+1
...The thing which could hurt our earnings significantly in the long run is when DPC manages to succeed.
We really have to try everything we can to make it fail.

Staying opted in is a short-term gain that could ultimately mean long-term loss. It's just not worth it. Opting in really can't be earning anyone that much money right now. DPC is still too new. So why do it?

I have to slightly disagree with your comment about making it fail, though. It doesn't need to fail, it just needs to change. DPC can exist in the market without doing any damage if it's restructured as a real subscription offering. Right now it's basically credit sales with a minor minimum buy-in and subscription royalties. As a real subscription system, with a respectable buy-in, it would be fine.

But Fotolia itself offers subscription, why make another site for that? Also I wouldn't really want Fotolia to gain bigger share of subscription market, as they pay me .29 per sub download (although .31 soon) opposed to Shutterstock's .38 and Dreamstime's and Veer's 0.35.

« Reply #813 on: May 07, 2014, 09:42 »
+2
They should just remove the $10 option. One option, just $99, $1 images. I might still stay out of it, but at least then it wouldn't be as big a threat to the whole market.

Okay ... I say 100$ for 100 images, you say 99$ for 99 images.  You're absolutely right, 99 sounds much better  ;D

« Reply #814 on: May 07, 2014, 09:43 »
+14
I was already unhappy with NAPP (National Association of Photoshop Professionals) - now merged with Scott Kelby's lynda.com-like training site, KelbyOne. They just jumped right on board the Creative Cloud bandwagon - saying they'd told Adobe how customers would hate it but now it was really great for us all. Members pay them money each year, but then they just suck up to their corporate buddies.

So I've been thinking I wouldn't renew my membership when it expires later this month. This morning's e-mail promoting Fotolia's Dollar Photo Club sealed the deal for me. KelbyOne is just a marketing/PR arm for Adobe and other corporate friends.



"KelbyMediaGroup members like you can get preferred admission to Dollar Photo Club; just choose "KelbyMediaGroup" when asked which stock agencies you currently use - but hurry, places are strictly limited!"

Certainly designers are their members, not just photographers, and arguably (until enough photographers pull out of DPC) DPC is a great deal for designers - dirt cheap photos and illustrations with only a $10 a month commitment.

The "NEW VIRAL" video is the marketing video I'd posted a link to earlier. It's had 400K views which isn't bad, but most certainly isn't viral (I think they'd have needed to include a cute cat for that!).

« Reply #815 on: May 07, 2014, 09:50 »
+24
I made a screen grab of what I posted on KelbyOne's Facebook page saying what I thought about them promoting the DPC - I'm assuming they'll remove the comment.


EmberMike

« Reply #816 on: May 07, 2014, 10:00 »
+1
But Fotolia itself offers subscription, why make another site for that?

To sell the $1 image perk. It's right in the site name. Even if Fotolia offers subscriptions already, DPC is subscriptions packaged in a somewhat different way and with a catchy name and marketing.

« Reply #817 on: May 07, 2014, 10:14 »
+12
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« Reply #818 on: May 07, 2014, 10:15 »
0
grrrrrrrrr >:(

« Reply #819 on: May 07, 2014, 10:50 »
+20
Thanks Joann, they send so many emails I don't even open most of them.  So I sent this:

Quote
Kelbyone.  This morning I received an email from you promoting Fotolia's Dollar Photo Club. 

I am formally writing to let you know that MY COMPANY WILL NO LONGER TRANSACT BUSINESS WITH KELBYONE now that you are in bed with DOLLAR PHOTO CLUB and FOTOLIA et all.

Fotolia has technically "stolen" content of it's artists by slipping it onto DPC without notice and is tragically on it's way to destroy the lifeblood of stock photographers around the world.  Did you know that for a photographer to earn a paltry $20,000 per year they will have to sell 80000 licenses on DPC?   80,000 licenses!!!   And that Fotolia is banking on the fact that legitimate ethical agencies will be driven out of business - or forced to reduce their prices (and payments to photographers)?

I hope you feel wonderful associating with such an unethical snake, Fotolia.  I guess that tells me an awful lot about Kelbyone.  Unsubscribed.


« Reply #820 on: May 07, 2014, 10:57 »
+9
Has anyone contacted the other agencies on our behalf?  This stupid DPC project really deserves their attention.  If Shutterstock and Dreamstime sent a non-slanderous letter to all contributors asking them to consider dropping out of this deal it would have a huge impact.

Would they let us talk about it on their forums?

« Reply #821 on: May 07, 2014, 11:03 »
+2
Has anyone contacted the other agencies on our behalf?  This stupid DPC project really deserves their attention.  If Shutterstock and Dreamstime sent a non-slanderous letter to all contributors asking them to consider dropping out of this deal it would have a huge impact.

Would they let us talk about it on their forums?


I'm sure they are already well aware (they'd have to be deaf dumb and blind not to notice  :o  :-X 8) )and there is a forum posting on the SS forum though apart from the comments in FT's forum there appears to be little said elsewhere :(

http://submit.shutterstock.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=138027 :)
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 11:06 by dpimborough »

« Reply #822 on: May 07, 2014, 11:16 »
+1
And here: http://submit.shutterstock.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=138253 (illustrators' forum)
They ARE aware. Definitely.  ;)

« Reply #823 on: May 07, 2014, 12:13 »
+1
...The thing which could hurt our earnings significantly in the long run is when DPC manages to succeed.
We really have to try everything we can to make it fail.

Staying opted in is a short-term gain that could ultimately mean long-term loss. It's just not worth it. Opting in really can't be earning anyone that much money right now. DPC is still too new. So why do it?

I have to slightly disagree with your comment about making it fail, though. It doesn't need to fail, it just needs to change. DPC can exist in the market without doing any damage if it's restructured as a real subscription offering. Right now it's basically credit sales with a minor minimum buy-in and subscription royalties. As a real subscription system, with a respectable buy-in, it would be fine.

But Fotolia itself offers subscription, why make another site for that? Also I wouldn't really want Fotolia to gain bigger share of subscription market, as they pay me .29 per sub download (although .31 soon) opposed to Shutterstock's .38 and Dreamstime's and Veer's 0.35.

I would venture to say because of the poor Fotolia brand. DPC allows them to rebrand with a clean slate. Istock did the same thing with thinkstock.

EmberMike

« Reply #824 on: May 07, 2014, 14:36 »
0

DPC has some sort of promo going with HOW, and it looks like Fotolia is listed as an exhibitor at HOW Design Live next week. What do you want to bet DPC features prominently into Fotolia's exhibition plans...

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