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Author Topic: Members leaving.  (Read 22076 times)

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« on: July 09, 2015, 05:02 »
+41
I've noticed several long standing members have left over the last week.  How about if we all try to be a bit more tolerant of other people instead of the semi bullying and putting others down.  If you don't like what somebody writes then scroll on and ignore them or don't open a thread started by them. We are all diffenent and see things in different ways.  It doesn't make any of us better or worse !!!


« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2015, 06:16 »
0
.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 06:28 by cathyslife »

Titus Livius

« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2015, 07:20 »
+16
they will all come back with a new nick.

i don't know why for many it is so hard to tolerate different views, must be a sign of the times.

« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2015, 07:31 »
+2
its summer,  low downloads, overall lower activity. Lets see what happens in autumn.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 09:21 by cobalt »

« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2015, 16:55 »
+4
I didn't look here much for a year, as it was too depressing and I got addicted to Clash of Clans to fill the void.  I came back because there's no point not knowing what's going on, even if some of the best people here leave and some of the worst just change names :)

PaulieWalnuts

  • On the Wrong Side of the Business
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2015, 17:23 »
+3
they will all come back with a new nick.

i don't know why for many it is so hard to tolerate different views, must be a sign of the times.

Different views seem to go fine as long as there's respectful debate. Here, the respectful part seems to go away quickly which understandably a lot of people find hard to tolerate.

« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2015, 17:36 »
+6
The only thing that ever really rankled me here was the brouhaha about how MSG should start requiring posters to reveal their real identity.   Some of those self-righteous rants about 'hiding behind anonymity' started to get under my skin.   But in the end it's all just text on a screen, isn't it?


« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2015, 19:17 »
0
But I've just arrived so why are they leaving? I am ready for some serious debate and discussion.

« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2015, 19:32 »
+2
But I've just arrived so why are they leaving? I am ready for some serious debate and discussion.


HAHAHAHA Welcome back Kotter!!

« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2015, 19:33 »
+2
they will all come back with a new nick.
Ya think?

« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2015, 20:16 »
0
But I've just arrived so why are they leaving? I am ready for some serious debate and discussion.


HAHAHAHA Welcome back Kotter!!

Kotter? What interesting name! Was he (or she) a person of important stature?

w7lwi

  • Those that don't stand up to evil enable evil.
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2015, 20:26 »
0
But I've just arrived so why are they leaving? I am ready for some serious debate and discussion.


HAHAHAHA Welcome back Kotter!!

Kotter? What interesting name! Was he (or she) a person of important stature?

Title of an old TV show from the last century.

« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2015, 20:37 »
0
But I've just arrived so why are they leaving? I am ready for some serious debate and discussion.


HAHAHAHA Welcome back Kotter!!

Kotter? What interesting name! Was he (or she) a person of important stature?

Title of an old TV show from the last century.

Am I to assume the rest of you were the Sweathogs and he was here to salvage your edumacation? Hahaha! How silly!

« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2015, 22:24 »
+8
But I've just arrived so why are they leaving? I am ready for some serious debate and discussion.


HAHAHAHA Welcome back Kotter!!

Kotter? What interesting name! Was he (or she) a person of important stature?

Now I feel really old.  Imagine children, a simpler time when John Travolta was young, straight, and not a Scientologist.  ;)
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 22:27 by PixelBytes »

Titus Livius

« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2015, 02:51 »
+4
some of the best people here leave

but how can they be the best if they can't stand the slightest criticism and if they only come here to boost their ego ?

practical example, i really respect Yuri's opinions on the stock industry but his narcissism and egocentrism is hard to digest, everything he says is about "look at me ! me ! me!", i'm afraid even in real life he's as fake and plastic as his images ...

unsurprisingly he never came back here after receiving some criticism some time ago, now he's probably trolling other forums or FB groups using a different nick  ...


Titus Livius

« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2015, 02:57 »
+2
The only thing that ever really rankled me here was the brouhaha about how MSG should start requiring posters to reveal their real identity.   Some of those self-righteous rants about 'hiding behind anonymity' started to get under my skin.   But in the end it's all just text on a screen, isn't it?

yes and no.

if you write a good analysis of a specific stock industry topic i don't care too much if you're a top seller or a newbie.

of course if you're a respect stocker your opinion will be taken a bit more seriously but in the end it's all about bringing interesting discussions, especially the kind of discussions that are not allowed in the agencies' forums for obvious reasons.

asking for real names and surname is pointless considering the amount of stalkers we see in forums and social networks, there's just nothing to gain from being stalked and in any case this is just a forum and by definition it shouldnt be taken too seriously.

if someone comes here claiming to have sold 1 million downloads of snapshots of his dog just take it with a grain of salt instead of asking for proofs or his real identity, i mean who cares there will be always trolls and spin doctors writing BS for fun or profit, this is true even with people you meet in a bar or at work so where's the big deal about it ?

Titus Livius

« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2015, 03:07 »
0
Different views seem to go fine as long as there's respectful debate. Here, the respectful part seems to go away quickly which understandably a lot of people find hard to tolerate.

it's indeed a sign of the times, just look at any newspaper and every day there's somebody screaming for more "rights" while giving zero respect to the opinions of his detractors, so many have grown up with the idea they're "special" and that their opinion counts no matter if it's full of sh-it and no matter if it's obvious they're the ones to blame for all their problems ... ohh nooo it must be always someone else fault and the whole idea about Respect quickly flies out of the window, this is even more open visible with women but the Pricess Syndrome is now affecting also many men as well.

strictly speaking, nowadays too many people are just unable to deal with criticism and this is just the tip of the iceberg for the Millennials and the young generation who grow in a world of touchscreens and internet .. we old farts see the web as a plus to be added to our face to face interactions, the young people instead is doing the opposite and it will only get worse in my opinion.


ShadySue

« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2015, 05:50 »
+18
... i really respect Yuri's opinions on the stock industry but his narcissism and egocentrism is hard to digest, everything he says is about "look at me ! me ! me!", i'm afraid even in real life he's as fake and plastic as his images ...
unsurprisingly he never came back here after receiving some criticism some time ago, now he's probably trolling other forums or FB groups using a different nick  ...

I doubt if Yuri will ever come back here, else we'd all be asking him about his major failure, which has seriously impacted on all who submit at iS, quote from June 2014:
Having just spent 3 days at GI in New York and today in Seattle with the IT exes I believe that very interesting things are in the pipeline for IS. Did I have a say in the upcoming changes... Yes - for sure. That being said. The GI top exe dev guys are highly competent and more flexible and agile towards change that I would have imagined. We are working on a set of core site improvements that will dramatically improve user experience and ultimately sales. Only thing that I can say now: Give IS three months and see the changes for yourself.
Shutterstock might be in for a bit more competition than they expected, especially if GI has me project managing the develoment team and we utilize the two things GI has that nobody else has: 1. The best images in the world. 2. The best editors in the world. The best images displays that the world has ever seen is just around the corner. Watch this space!

http://www.microstockgroup.com/istockphoto-com/can-istock-turn-midstock-sales-around/msg382833/#msg382833
Since when almost everyone who has been around for a few years and who reports sales, reports falling (often rapidly falling) income on iStock. If there are 'core improvements on the site' and 'the best image displays the world has ever seen', I must have blinked and missed them.
I for one would love to know what he has to say about that.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 06:11 by ShadySue »

Titus Livius

« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2015, 06:56 »
+4
I for one would love to know what he has to say about that.

i just checked and he has stopped updating his FB/Twitter/WWW pages in august 2014.

it seems he totally gave up with his online presence ...

ShadySue

« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2015, 07:15 »
+2
I for one would love to know what he has to say about that.

i just checked and he has stopped updating his FB/Twitter/WWW pages in august 2014.

it seems he totally gave up with his online presence ...
Verrrrrrry interesting.

« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2015, 07:24 »
+2
Welcome to the internet. I'll be your guide.


Srsly, I bet they're spending their precious time taking/editing/uploading photos.

« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2015, 08:56 »
+1
The only thing that ever really rankled me here was the brouhaha about how MSG should start requiring posters to reveal their real identity.   Some of those self-righteous rants about 'hiding behind anonymity' started to get under my skin.   But in the end it's all just text on a screen, isn't it?

Unfortunately some of those rants were more personal attacks and if memory serves some of the more vocal ranters against anonymous posters; were eventually permanently booted from sites for openly criticizing said sites.


« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2015, 10:13 »
+2
............ Give IS three months and see the changes for yourself.
Shutterstock might be in for a bit more competition than they expected.......Watch this space!


I'd forgotten about that, thanks for reminding me, bought a smile to my face, hilarious

« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2015, 10:19 »
+1
I've noticed several long standing members have left over the last week.  How about if we all try to be a bit more tolerant of other people instead of the semi bullying and putting others down.  If you don't like what somebody writes then scroll on and ignore them or don't open a thread started by them. We are all diffenent and see things in different ways.  It doesn't make any of us better or worse !!!
It's really tricky because a lot of the pros have left here for the same reason as some people get pissed off and go ape every now and then. The truth is that some of the people you think are being bullied will never leave because they thrive on the attention, while a lot of people have left because of the tone set by these very people (or occasionally blow their stack when they can't take any more). I don't know what the solution is.

« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2015, 11:01 »
+2
It's really tricky because a lot of the pros have left here for the same reason as some people get pissed off and go ape every now and then. The truth is that some of the people you think are being bullied will never leave because they thrive on the attention, while a lot of people have left because of the tone set by these very people (or occasionally blow their stack when they can't take any more). I don't know what the solution is.

yes, i think you hit the nail on the head. those who left just got tired of this forum and they really did not need the drug to open msg . perharps they got prescribed lithium or went on some illegal substance  ;D
those who stayed , to bully or be bullied, they really do need the attention or empty blotation to their anal ego to bully.

i remember a long time ago, there was a regular named mitz or mintz or something like that. he was mean, ruthless, but he was proper. he never once character-assassinate. he would strike out at you on your topic but never did he stoop to insult your person. 
and yes, his advices were spot on too, all very helpful to newbies, as i was one of them who actually sent him many personal message for advice which he was never unwilling to share.

his remark to me on the last point was , "i am not that little to be afraid of competition".

unfortunately, i think he left us a long time back , he died.  and we still have those PITAs much alive here  ;D  as they say, the good dies...

« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2015, 11:13 »
+8
I should have left too, because I don't do microstock any more; I decided over a year ago that it had become a waste of time.  And, it was just making me angry.   But I keep reading this forum anyway because it's interestng, and maybe at some point, the situation will change.   

There isn't a good POD forum that I know of. The only place I might find out about new POD opportunities would be here.  You can't even mention competitors on FAA's forum.

« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2015, 14:24 »
+3
Ok, I'll formally submit this suggestion to MSG:   spin off a POD forum.  Many microstockers (like. me) have moved on to POD, so it's logical for this forum to evolve too,  and there would be interesting discussion.   There's no place for that discussion today.   I've tried to interest some FAA forum posters in using the POD sub-forum here, but they see this as a microstock site, and are put off by the name and the URL. 

« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 16:41 by stockastic »

« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2015, 16:51 »
0
Ok, I'll formally submit this suggestion to MSG:   spin off a POD forum.  Many microstockers (like. me) have moved on to POD, so it's logical for this forum to evolve too,  and there would be interesting discussion.   There's no place for that discussion today.   I've tried to interest some FAA forum posters in using the POD sub-forum here, but they see this as a microstock site, and are put off by the name and the URL.
I didn't even know there was a POD sub forum here and still couldn't find it.

ShadySue

« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2015, 17:12 »
0
I didn't even know there was a POD sub forum here and still couldn't find it.

http://www.microstockgroup.com/product-resale-forum

Tryingmybest

  • Stand up for what is right
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2015, 17:51 »
+3
I'm not leaving. I learn alot here and my microstock illustration income is growing very quickly. It's not enough to pay weekly expenses...yet. But so far, for all the time I put into it, the revenue growth is consistently going up. I do work for one for a microstock photographer with a 15,000+ portfolio on SS and the other sites. His expenses are very high compared to mine, yet he is positive about the future.  :D

« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2015, 09:33 »
0
The only thing that ever really rankled me here was the brouhaha about how MSG should start requiring posters to reveal their real identity.   Some of those self-righteous rants about 'hiding behind anonymity' started to get under my skin.   But in the end it's all just text on a screen, isn't it?


From what I've seen, most of the snide, condescending, personal commentary comes from the anonymous and, in this situation, [/size]'hiding behind anonymity'[/size] is exactly what's happening.  Fortunately, most of the posters who remain anonymous are not like this and most conversations would be poorer without some of them.

« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2015, 09:56 »
+8
Something else worth mentioning is that some of the anonymous, perpetually disappearing, reappearing members have absolutely monstrously bigoted views they can't help but push into every conversation (mostly sexist). This really sours the tone of the whole forum. The options for everyone else are to ignore it and leave the stench on every thread they comment on or constantly have to confront it resulting in endless thread derailments. Either option makes for a very unpleasant place to hang out.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2015, 09:59 by Justanotherphotographer »

Titus Livius

« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2015, 10:24 »
+1
absolutely monstrously bigoted views .... (mostly sexist) ... endless thread derailments ... very unpleasant

if you're so oversensitive maybe the problem is you.
life is unfair.

« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2015, 10:29 »
+13
absolutely monstrously bigoted views .... (mostly sexist) ... endless thread derailments ... very unpleasant

if you're so oversensitive maybe the problem is you.
life is unfair.

And maybe not.  There's a lot of rudeness online, which I attribute to the authors not having to face those who read their words.  Most people would be more considerate or at least more polite in face to face conversation than they are online.  Telling people not to be sensitive does nothing to improve the quality or the tone of our discourse.

« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2015, 10:36 »
+6

life is unfair.
Says someone concerned with social justice in other threads.... right. Fairness is good, as long as it is not up to me to be fair.
You comment is out of line.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2015, 10:50 by Zero Talent »

Shelma1

« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2015, 11:08 »
+10
absolutely monstrously bigoted views .... (mostly sexist) ... endless thread derailments ... very unpleasant

if you're so oversensitive maybe the problem is you.
life is unfair.

Says the person who's been repeatedly banned, then comes back a few days later spewing misogyny.

« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2015, 11:31 »
+3
I like it when I can work out who an anonymous person is here and then I always have the option of outing them if they annoy me too much :)

PaulieWalnuts

  • On the Wrong Side of the Business
« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2015, 11:54 »
+5
I like it when I can work out who an anonymous person is here and then I always have the option of outing them if they annoy me too much :)

That just reminded me my time is probably better spent working on producing images and less on the social community stuff. Best wishes with your outings.

Titus Livius

« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2015, 12:00 »
+2
Says the person who's been repeatedly banned, then comes back a few days later spewing misogyny.

actually just a handful of conservative remarks mirroring my views on morality and ethics.

unlike many others i express my opinions (free speech !)  without beating around the bush, sorry if that's becoming almost a crime nowadays, it must be a sign of the times too ...




Titus Livius

« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2015, 12:03 »
+1
That just reminded me my time is probably better spent working on producing images and less on the social community stuff. Best wishes with your outings.

indeed.
as i wrote before, too many stalkers in forums nowadays.

now is it a mystery for anyone here i'm H....stocker for instance ? i don't know but it's funny to think somebody spent time stalking my old messages etc ... hahaha ... if it's funny for them who am i to judge ? however once the fun is over they better get a life.




Titus Livius

« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2015, 12:05 »
0

life is unfair.
Says someone concerned with social justice in other threads.... right. Fairness is good, as long as it is not up to me to be fair.
You comment is out of line.

i stand by my words, 100%.

« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2015, 12:07 »
+8

life is unfair.
Says someone concerned with social justice in other threads.... right. Fairness is good, as long as it is not up to me to be fair.
You comment is out of line.

i stand by my words, 100%.
I have no doubt.

"Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself"

Leo Tolstoy

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk


Titus Livius

« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2015, 12:10 »
+2
And maybe not.  There's a lot of rudeness online, which I attribute to the authors not having to face those who read their words.  Most people would be more considerate or at least more polite in face to face conversation than they are online.  Telling people not to be sensitive does nothing to improve the quality or the tone of our discourse.

hard to be polite with anonymous people calling you names and the mandatory "bigot" insult just because my personal opinions don't fit their agenda.

i can understand many members hate politics but this forum is about the Stock industry and therefore stock agencies and may we like it or not most of the topics will be about economy and the whole politics involved in the agencies masterplans.

it's a billionaire industry and it's active worldwide, you can't make everybody happy but pretending Politics or negativity should be totally kept off the radar is insane and correct me if i'm wrong but  it says more about my detractors than about me.




Titus Livius

« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2015, 12:12 »
+3
"Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself"

i've joined a gym and i'll soon quit smoking, what about you ?

« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2015, 12:36 »
+7
Freedom of speech etc. is irrelevant.  The thread is about why people may be leaving. You have a right to take a dump but don't be surprised if I don't want to stand next to you when you do it.

« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2015, 12:59 »
+2
All this bickering and yet no one seems to notice that several MSG members render the topic a moot point.

How many people do you suppose got sick of defending views that are not popular with the crowd who only accepts positive pro micro crowd speak and therefore changed their identity. I also know a formerly well respected member who left because they got sick of being personally attacked for not opting out of DPC.

I seem to remember the same type conflicts erupting here when IS started it's decline. You had promotional minded members defending anything IS did, while attacking other members for speaking their minds about IS's ugly business decisions.

The business climate has changed and it does not always bring out the best in us.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2015, 13:02 by gbalex »

Shelma1

« Reply #46 on: July 11, 2015, 13:20 »
+7
There's a big difference between expressing disagreement about business practices and coming here to spew bigotry and misogyny. That's why the people who disagree with each other, even when they have obvious business agendas, haven't been banned, but Titus has...over and over again.

« Reply #47 on: July 11, 2015, 13:47 »
+8
There's a big difference between expressing disagreement about business practices and coming here to spew bigotry and misogyny. That's why the people who disagree with each other, even when they have obvious business agendas, haven't been banned, but Titus has...over and over again.

And probably again soon.  Why does anyone want to be somewhere they are not wanted?

Titus Livius

« Reply #48 on: July 11, 2015, 13:58 »
+1
coming here to spew bigotry and misogyny ... been banned ...over and over again.

typical Princess Syndrome.

but hey, i see you can't wait to get me banned again but if they do they will lose yet another Valuable Member ... in that case i'll be glad to migrate on a FB stock group and good riddance.



« Reply #49 on: July 11, 2015, 14:05 »
+4
coming here to spew bigotry and misogyny ... been banned ...over and over again.

... they will lose yet another Valuable Member ...

Wow! And how would you call this syndrome?

Titus Livius

« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2015, 14:09 »
+1
The business climate has changed and it does not always bring out the best in us.

well to give you an idea years ago i got banned because my forecasts were about a doom and gloom scenario caused by oversupply and saturation, i was also defending the RM agencies while everyone here were convinced their days were numbered, i critized iStock in particular and warned them the party was soon to be over and they would have been all scr-ewed big time by the new Getty management.

ironically, now that almost all my forecasts turned true many old timers went out of business and don't write here anymore .. even Yuri stopped writing here and in his other sites since 2014.

Shelma1

« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2015, 14:26 »
+4
coming here to spew bigotry and misogyny ... been banned ...over and over again.

... they will lose yet another Valuable Member ...

Wow! And how would you call this syndrome?

Delusion.

« Reply #52 on: July 11, 2015, 14:29 »
+3
There's a big difference between expressing disagreement about business practices and coming here to spew bigotry and misogyny. That's why the people who disagree with each other, even when they have obvious business agendas, haven't been banned, but Titus has...over and over again.

It seems like every time I sign in to this forum you are accusing yet another member of being this person who for whom you have intense distain. Last time it was easy to see that he was not who you claimed because had been a member for years and had a full port on Pond. Yet to my knowledge you did not apologize for the insults you hurled his way.

You also attack anyone who voices their concerns in regard to the negative business choices shutterstock has made.

« Reply #53 on: July 11, 2015, 14:34 »
+5
The business climate has changed and it does not always bring out the best in us.

well to give you an idea years ago i got banned because my forecasts were about a doom and gloom scenario caused by oversupply and saturation, i was also defending the RM agencies while everyone here were convinced their days were numbered, i critized iStock in particular and warned them the party was soon to be over and they would have been all scr-ewed big time by the new Getty management.

ironically, now that almost all my forecasts turned true many old timers went out of business and don't write here anymore .. even Yuri stopped writing here and in his other sites since 2014.

You have a lot of interesting views and insights into the business.  If you could keep the personal attacks out of it then you would maybe be a valuable group member.  But as it is your good observations are overshadowed by the insults you make.

« Reply #54 on: July 11, 2015, 15:51 »
+3



i am not sure if i agree that Yuri was all haughty taughty . if i recall, he and dolgachov only came back to say they were pissed-off because some mindless ppl here attacked him personally.
what Yuri says may not have come across as "look at me", unless you took it that way.

then again, if i were Yuri, i wouldn't care what others say, really.
which is yet another reason other big names (to list one of the most respectable , Gagnon) never bother coming in here.

too much nut cases here with their own personal agenda. which has brought this forum to its all time low. time for Leaf to be a little less :democratic: as he once say why he seldom ban anyone. but lately, he did correct some others of what they say, yet others attacking more directly still get away unchecked.

« Reply #55 on: July 11, 2015, 17:07 »
+2



i am not sure if i agree that Yuri was all haughty taughty . if i recall, he and dolgachov only came back to say they were pissed-off because some mindless ppl here attacked him personally.
what Yuri says may not have come across as "look at me", unless you took it that way.

then again, if i were Yuri, i wouldn't care what others say, really.
which is yet another reason other big names (to list one of the most respectable , Gagnon) never bother coming in here.

too much nut cases here with their own personal agenda. which has brought this forum to its all time low. time for Leaf to be a little less :democratic: as he once say why he seldom ban anyone. but lately, he did correct some others of what they say, yet others attacking more directly still get away unchecked.

I'm not sure that Leaf can keep up with everything on the forum.  He probably have to rely on the 'report to moderator' button.  If someone does an attack and nobody reports it then he may not know about it.

« Reply #56 on: July 11, 2015, 19:09 »
+2

Quote

Says the person who's been repeatedly banned, then comes back a few days later spewing misogyny.

Im still here and waiting for that apology, since im not that person apparently.

« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2015, 20:42 »
0

« Reply #58 on: July 12, 2015, 02:32 »
+1

Quote

Says the person who's been repeatedly banned, then comes back a few days later spewing misogyny.

Im still here and waiting for that apology, since im not that person apparently.
https://youtu.be/oYOZ3IzRaf4

Titus Livius

« Reply #59 on: July 12, 2015, 03:21 »
+13
alright ladies, since you asked, this is my last message EVER on this forum !

farewell.


« Reply #60 on: July 12, 2015, 18:26 »
+7
alright ladies, since you asked, this is my last message EVER on this forum !

farewell.



Hope that's a promise.  It isn't just the ladies happy to see you go.

« Reply #61 on: March 02, 2017, 03:36 »
0
I think that each member should be really polite and tolerant to others. Because even in the Internet we should have good manners ::)

« Reply #62 on: March 02, 2017, 10:06 »
+5
I miss Ron :'(

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