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Author Topic: "submarine sandwich" keywording question  (Read 5539 times)

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j2k

« on: October 15, 2008, 16:06 »
0
Does anyone have a good way to keyword submarine sandwich on istock?

Judging by DT downloads it's quite popular term - either submarine sandwich, or sub sandwich.  Unfortunately istock doesn't have such term in their controlled vocabulary and it gets split into submarine (nautical vessel) and sandwich.

Now I wouldn't care much about it if not for the fact, that 1) I'm trying to sell a photo of a sandwich not a boat, and 2) the "submarine" keyword either gets rejected, or marked as inaccurate later on.

Any ideas??? Phrase "submarine sandwich" doesn't really work since you have to put it in the quotes.



« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2008, 16:20 »
0
You may try suggest it to keywords@istockphoto.com

I was never lucky with it though, in many suggestions using dictionary definitions.

Brazilian money, Real, doesn't exist in CV, "real" for them only means "real people" or "candid". The only similar thing available is "Brazilian currency".  Any Brazilian would naturally type "real", not "brazilian currency", to find images with our money.

Regards,
Adelaide

« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2008, 16:32 »
0

lisafx

« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2008, 16:41 »
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Hoagie.

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_search.php?action=file&text=hoagie


Unfortunately hoagie isn't in the CV either. 

Generally I just delete all the words that aren't in the CV before someone can bother wiki-ing them.  Your search would seem to indicate there is some value in leaving them in. 

Wish the wiki warriors would leave the terms with the triangle/explanation point in, but they don't. 

graficallyminded

« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2008, 16:50 »
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grinder?  ;D

lisafx

« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2008, 17:12 »
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grinder?  ;D

Still no winner.  Grinder maps to grinder(industrial equipment), coffee grinder(kitchen utensil), and meat grinder(appliance)

The search continues.... ;)

« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2008, 17:23 »
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Yet another term to try is po'boy or poorboy as that is what they were called wher I grew up, but I bet that is not in the CV either.

Scott

« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2008, 18:18 »
0
Hoagie.

http://www.istockphoto.com/file_search.php?action=file&text=hoagie


Unfortunately hoagie isn't in the CV either. 

Generally I just delete all the words that aren't in the CV before someone can bother wiki-ing them.  Your search would seem to indicate there is some value in leaving them in. 

Wish the wiki warriors would leave the terms with the triangle/explanation point in, but they don't. 


Well, it is in the CV, whether it was added by a contributor or not.

hali

« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2008, 18:49 »
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frankly, there are many legitimate words that the IStock is dumb to.
that was what the late Photoshelter was good for. one could add new words to the disambiguation.
Istock is amazing stupid in that sense. i am surprise, esp for one of the Big 6.

my suggestion is forget brand names like submarine sandwich and simply use the most generic phrases... sandwich, snack, loaf, bread, fast, food,etc...
this i am sure the dumb thesarus of Istock will understand  ;D

j2k

« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2008, 22:14 »
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Thanks for the answers.

The thing about skipping words like submarine sandwich etc is that people actually use it in their searches - about 80% of my "sandwich" sales on DT have something like "turkey sub sandwich" "salami submarine" etc.  It makes sense to assume that similar keywords are used on istock.

Right now a bunch of photos shows up if you type submarine sandwich into istock search. All of them refer to the boat, so by not doing it, I'd be putting myself in disadvantage.

Now, what would happen if one would put the keywords that were removed by the keyword wiki police back in? (on my turkey sandwich they not only removed submarine - kind of makes sense, but also turkey)   ???

« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2008, 22:21 »
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It makes sense to assume that similar keywords are used on istock.

No, IS buyers are different from the rest of the world, it seems.  Or they want to make us believe in that.  :)

Regards,
Adelaide

« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2008, 07:06 »
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IMO, this issue is one of the major problems at IS.

If you have a photo of an object that has a complex keyword (i.e., a keyword with more than one word), then it can get Wiki'd and have those vital words removed.

For example, if you have a closeup photo of "wood duck" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_Duck), then you might get Wiki'd for the word "wood" (since there isn't any wood in the photo).

bittersweet

« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2008, 09:03 »
0
IMO, this issue is one of the major problems at IS.

If you have a photo of an object that has a complex keyword (i.e., a keyword with more than one word), then it can get Wiki'd and have those vital words removed.

For example, if you have a closeup photo of "wood duck" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_Duck), then you might get Wiki'd for the word "wood" (since there isn't any wood in the photo).



While I agree with the sentiment, this is not the best example. Correct disambiguation will allow you to map directly to Wood Duck. You enter duck as a keyword, which gives you several options, the correct of which is "Duck (Freshwater Bird)". To further specify, you'd click on the "+" and are then given a pretty long list of very specific duck terms from which to choose.

Since there is no wood in this photo, it would be completely accurate to be wiki'd for that word. If someone starts typing "wood" in the keyword box, one of the items that drops down is "Wood Duck".

« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2008, 09:46 »
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Thanks for the answers.

The thing about skipping words like submarine sandwich etc is that people actually use it in their searches - about 80% of my "sandwich" sales on DT have something like "turkey sub sandwich" "salami submarine" etc.  It makes sense to assume that similar keywords are used on istock.

Right now a bunch of photos shows up if you type submarine sandwich into istock search. All of them refer to the boat, so by not doing it, I'd be putting myself in disadvantage.

Now, what would happen if one would put the keywords that were removed by the keyword wiki police back in? (on my turkey sandwich they not only removed submarine - kind of makes sense, but also turkey)   ???

Holy cow, this part just made me laugh!

Forget that there are thousands of contributors on iStock.  Forget that a lot of them shoot food, especially deli food.  Even forget that there's a wiki police.

But do NOT forget that they just announced a lockdown on keyword spamming.  And one sandwich in a sea of water vessels *pun intended* will put you on the spotlight.

It's your choice.  Good luck!

« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2008, 10:01 »
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It never stops to amaze me what keywords are lacking at IS, and what's in there. Every time I use the word "iron", "Iron County" turns up, while words and definitions of words that are commonplace all over the world are weeded out.

lisafx

« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2008, 10:05 »
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FWIW, "submarine sandwich" is NOT a brand name.  The sandwich shop "Subway" named themselves after the generic term "submarine sandwich".

And if "hoagie" was officially a part of the CV, it would not have the exclamation point inside the triangle symbol, would it?   Don't you have to search in "quotes" to bring up those kinds of terms?

The wiki results I have been getting back all have those type of contributor added words removed, so I have been operating under the assumption they are considered spam. 

hali

« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2008, 10:36 »
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can the spam police be misused to stop you from getting views, and so, downloads?
just wondering. ???

« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2008, 11:33 »
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And if "hoagie" was officially a part of the CV, it would not have the exclamation point inside the triangle symbol, would it?   Don't you have to search in "quotes" to bring up those kinds of terms?

It is in the CV, because it doesn't come up with the option to add it to the CV.   Click on the ! :
You have found a term that is not an accepted Controlled Vocabulary term. Phrases will not be found in CV searches without double quotes, and the term will not be translated into the other site languages.

So, it is not an official CV term, but an added term.  It is not a phrase, it is a single word, so it does not need quotes.  And it does not get translated.

Essentially, someone needs to send this to Jordan, aka keywords.  Sub Sandwich, Grinder, Hoagie, Dagwood, should all DA to one term of their choosing to make it official.

« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2008, 12:41 »
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IMO, this issue is one of the major problems at IS.

If you have a photo of an object that has a complex keyword (i.e., a keyword with more than one word), then it can get Wiki'd and have those vital words removed.

For example, if you have a closeup photo of "wood duck" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_Duck), then you might get Wiki'd for the word "wood" (since there isn't any wood in the photo).



While I agree with the sentiment, this is not the best example. Correct disambiguation will allow you to map directly to Wood Duck. You enter duck as a keyword, which gives you several options, the correct of which is "Duck (Freshwater Bird)". To further specify, you'd click on the "+" and are then given a pretty long list of very specific duck terms from which to choose.

Since there is no wood in this photo, it would be completely accurate to be wiki'd for that word. If someone starts typing "wood" in the keyword box, one of the items that drops down is "Wood Duck".


While you are correct in what you are writing, that workflow makes a huge assumption - that buyers are aware of how the DA works and that they will type in their search so that it works the way the DA (disambiguation) works.  For example, if a buyer type in "duck wood" (instead of "wood duck"), they will not find the DA tag "Duck (Freshwater Bird)".  Or if they search for "wood duck water", it will also not find the DA tag.  This is where the IS DA system falls apart.  If you don't type in the words exactly they way the IS search engine is expecting it, then it won't find exactly what you are looking for.

This is why I believe that it is problematic when a file gets Wiki'd for a tag such as "wood" when it is so crucial to the image at hand.

bittersweet

« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2008, 13:12 »
0
can the spam police be misused to stop you from getting views, and so, downloads?
just wondering. ???

No changes are made to your files until after they are reviewed by a keyword admin.

lisafx

« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2008, 13:36 »
0

Essentially, someone needs to send this to Jordan, aka keywords.  Sub Sandwich, Grinder, Hoagie, Dagwood, should all DA to one term of their choosing to make it official.

This was discussed in the istock thread on keywords.  People have been waiting many months for suggested keywords to be added, without success.  Kind of a dead end IMHO. 

But thanks for the explanation of the exclamation mark thingy.    I will stop deleting those types of words from my IPTC data when I do disambiguation on upload. 

« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2008, 22:23 »
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Essentially, someone needs to send this to Jordan, aka keywords.  Sub Sandwich, Grinder, Hoagie, Dagwood, should all DA to one term of their choosing to make it official.

I have sent many suggestions when I don't find a correct meaning in the CV.  I send dictionary definitions, not things out of my head.  Last time I checked, none of them had been accepted.

I've said about "Real", Brazilian currency, before.  It was never included.  Brazilians won't naturally look for "Brazilian currency" (which is in the CV), the same way people will look for dollars, not U.S. currency, or pounds, not UK currency.  So my Brazilian money images are tagged with "Real people" and I must be a serious spammer.

Regards,
Adelaide


 

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