Author Topic: Banned from Istock club (Read 50261 times)

blackwaterimages · « **Reply #75 on:** February 10, 2013, 18:21 »

Quote from: djpadavona on February 10, 2013, 18:17

If you believe in freedom of speech, then they should be allowed to be here.

I don't when it comes to stuff like this. And any forum is bound by whatever rules those who run the place decide to enforce - heck, we've seen that in the iStock forums. No such thing as free speech there... But again, maybe its just me.

Poncke · « **Reply #76 on:** February 10, 2013, 18:29 »

Basically what he is saying is that IS is aware of all the pain they are causing their own contributors but choose to do nothing about it.

Look what has come of the google deal revolt. Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

If I ran a company and saw this much heartache I would make changes. But thats just me.

cobalt · « **Reply #77 on:** February 10, 2013, 18:35 »

Admins are part of the whole stock scene. I don´t believe in banning people (no irony intended).

I was a moderator on istock and I was still actively posting here. FWIW I have worked with Lobo as a colleague and thought he did a his job as "bad cop" really well. The forums are an unbelievably rough place to work and what you see on the forum "stage" is only a small part of the picture.

But like he says moderators are only human and they make mistakes. And it is especially difficult for an admin to communicate if you don´t even have more information yourself about a new situation or have been given conflicting directions from those higher up. Moderators don´t work in a vacuum, they are employees and have to follow directions.

For those who would like to have sitemail or posting privileges back, I would take him up on the offer to just site mail him or write to support.

He must have amazing inner strength to be doing his job for so long. But from the new threads about forum discussions, new language forums, editorial questions it looks like he is genuinly making a much stronger effort to engage the community. I also wouldn´t be surprised if he had to fight to get that going.

Like he says, he is part of a bigger game and can only work within the space he has been given.

Ultimately the forum quality and the relationship between admins and the community is decided by Getty. What kind of community life do they want? They are the only ones who can make that decision.

Any admins who want to work actively with the community will need professional training to learn how to communicate effectively via social media. Especially because a very large part of the community does not have English as a first language.

A lot of nuances of English are simply not understood by a huge number of people. I used to point that out many times when I was working with the German language forum.

It looks like 2 years and various s**storms later suggestions by Michael and me are being read with a more open mind.

So I hope the forums will improve because the old istock community life was a great way to attract new talent.

Right now it is just a shadow of what it use to be.

Travelling-light · « **Reply #78 on:** February 10, 2013, 18:36 »

Quote from: Poncke on February 10, 2013, 18:29

Basically what he is saying is that IS is aware of all the pain they are causing their own contributors but choose to do nothing about it.

Look what has come of the google deal revolt. Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

If I ran a company and saw this much heartache I would make changes. But thats just me.

I'll bet you're not rich though, are you?

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #79 on:** February 10, 2013, 18:40 »

Quote from: blackwaterimages on February 10, 2013, 18:21

Quote from: djpadavona on February 10, 2013, 18:17
If you believe in freedom of speech, then they should be allowed to be here.

I don't when it comes to stuff like this. And any forum is bound by whatever rules those who run the place decide to enforce - heck, we've seen that in the iStock forums. No such thing as free speech there... But again, maybe its just me.

I don't think it's practical to ban admins as in general, when they come here they come to help and fix problems. There'd be this cat and mouse game of admins signing up from other computers and you don't need to produce ID to become a member here.

The two agencies who have done something other than offer help are iStock and Fotoliia. Fotolia's the reason we have so many anonymous folks - Paul Cowan is now "out" from behind Baldrick's Trousers as he was able to get paid and close his a/c at Fotolia and no longer had to worry about retaliation - which in FT's case was stated policy rather than just whim.

I do wish it were mandatory to have the special "stamp" for those who were staff. Tyler (Leaf) has offered it as an option so those of us here can know when we're dealing with agency staff vs. contributors. But if the members don't want to then they don't have to have it.

As long as everyone knows they're dealing with agency staff so they can act appropriately I think that's the most reasonable compromise.

luissantos84 · « **Reply #80 on:** February 10, 2013, 18:42 »

Quote from: Travelling-light on February 10, 2013, 18:36

Quote from: Poncke on February 10, 2013, 18:29
Basically what he is saying is that IS is aware of all the pain they are causing their own contributors but choose to do nothing about it.

Look what has come of the google deal revolt. Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

If I ran a company and saw this much heartache I would make changes. But thats just me.

I'll bet you're not rich though, are you?

do you really think iStock will be rich in a few years? please don't tell me that they are growing....

Mantis · « **Reply #81 on:** February 10, 2013, 18:53 »

Quote from: djpadavona on February 10, 2013, 18:17

Quote from: blackwaterimages on February 10, 2013, 18:12
Is there a reason that admins are allowed in this forum? Couldn't membership be controlled so that we don't have to worry about them butting in here too?

If you believe in freedom of speech, then they should be allowed to be here. And you have your opportunity to voice your opinion to them in neutral territory. Relish it, imo.

I inferred from Lobo's responses (and I certainly could be wrong) that if they want to can you AS A CONTRIBUTOR they will. And whatever you post in MSG, they read. I almost felt like he was threatening us to some degree to watch what we say in here too.

gbalex · « **Reply #82 on:** February 10, 2013, 18:55 »

Quote from: Mantis on February 10, 2013, 18:53

Quote from: djpadavona on February 10, 2013, 18:17
Quote from: blackwaterimages on February 10, 2013, 18:12
Is there a reason that admins are allowed in this forum? Couldn't membership be controlled so that we don't have to worry about them butting in here too?

If you believe in freedom of speech, then they should be allowed to be here. And you have your opportunity to voice your opinion to them in neutral territory. Relish it, imo.

I inferred from Lobo's responses (and I certainly could be wrong) that if they want to can you they will. And whatever you post, they read. I almost felt like he was threatening us to some degree to watch what we say in here too.

I got the same impression, it is not enough to bully people on the forms, he could not control his contempt and decided to make various cloaked threat's here under the guise of an olive leaf.

Quote from: pieman on February 10, 2013, 16:31

Thanks, folks. Don't hate the player, hate the game

Lobo seems to miss the point, this is not a game we are talking about, but peoples livelihoods and we have every right to be angry in regard to the business decisions Getty has been making which impact our livelyhoods.

Quote from: pieman on February 10, 2013, 17:38

I guess that's part of the problem. Everyone wants to make things about me. Well it's about all of us. Yes, this is my account. I'm Lobo on iStock. I'm the horrible monster.

These forums have lurkers too. People who would like to participate are hesitant because there is rarely anything constructive going on. It seems to be a catch all for anger and rage. I read these forums everyday. Don't think for a second I don't.

Anger does not happen in a vacuum, I can remember when this forum was filled non stop IS WHOOYAY's. The actions IS has made changed that environment. For most part the folks at MSG are the same generally positive people who used to support IS. Their outlook has changed drastically as a result of a long list of negative financial developments created mainly by Getty.

blackwaterimages · « **Reply #83 on:** February 10, 2013, 18:56 »

Quote from: Mantis on February 10, 2013, 18:53

I almost felt like he was threatening us to some degree to watch what we say in here too.

Agreed, which is one of the reasons I suggested not allowing admins here - but clearly I'm in the minority on that point.

JPSDK · « **Reply #84 on:** February 10, 2013, 18:56 »

Quote from: cobalt on February 10, 2013, 18:35

Any admins who want to work actively with the community will need professional training to learn how to communicate effectively via social media. Especially because a very large part of the community does not have English as a first language.

A lot of nuances of English are simply not understood by a huge number of people. I used to point that out many times when I was working with the German language forum.

It looks like 2 years and various s**storms later suggestions by Michael and me are being read with a more open mind.

Right now it is just a shadow of what it use to be.

That is right!
It is very important that forum admins can look a bit beyond the limitations of their native language. The agencies are operating in a global environment and it is not smart to convey your messages in "Calgary slang", that is widely not understood out there in the wider world. Lobo, since we are now talking about him, is especially difficult to understand for us outsiders.

Travelling-light · « **Reply #85 on:** February 10, 2013, 19:04 »

Quote from: gbalex on February 10, 2013, 18:55

Quote from: Mantis on February 10, 2013, 18:53
Quote from: djpadavona on February 10, 2013, 18:17
Quote from: blackwaterimages on February 10, 2013, 18:12
Is there a reason that admins are allowed in this forum? Couldn't membership be controlled so that we don't have to worry about them butting in here too?

If you believe in freedom of speech, then they should be allowed to be here. And you have your opportunity to voice your opinion to them in neutral territory. Relish it, imo.

I inferred from Lobo's responses (and I certainly could be wrong) that if they want to can you they will. And whatever you post, they read. I almost felt like he was threatening us to some degree to watch what we say in here too.

Me too.

sharpshot · « **Reply #86 on:** February 10, 2013, 19:07 »

Quote from: Mantis on February 10, 2013, 18:53

...I almost felt like he was threatening us to some degree to watch what we say in here too.

I didn't get that feeling. That's part of the problem with reading forum posts, we can all interpret them a different way. It's easier to tell what people mean when you can hear their voice. It would also save time typing. So perhaps forums should switch to voice clips

Poncke · « **Reply #87 on:** February 10, 2013, 19:07 »

Quote from: cobalt on February 10, 2013, 18:35

Any admins who want to work actively with the community will need professional training to learn how to communicate effectively via social media. Especially because a very large part of the community does not have English as a first language.

I have never seen a moderator in a forum who is publicly putting people down, humiliating them, threatening them, patronizing them and what not. He argues with people and as soon as they dare to talk back they get banned. Also people get banned for saying absolutely nothing wrong. The constant locking of threads is also a moderation I have not seen before.

Thats some weird moderation, and if thats how they are trained or because of lack of training, then all that is said about IS, holds water.

The place is broken, lobo needs to be banned and IS needs to be locked.

Chico · « **Reply #88 on:** February 10, 2013, 19:07 »

Quote from: Travelling-light on February 10, 2013, 19:04

Quote from: gbalex on February 10, 2013, 18:55
Quote from: Mantis on February 10, 2013, 18:53
Quote from: djpadavona on February 10, 2013, 18:17
Quote from: blackwaterimages on February 10, 2013, 18:12
Is there a reason that admins are allowed in this forum? Couldn't membership be controlled so that we don't have to worry about them butting in here too?

If you believe in freedom of speech, then they should be allowed to be here. And you have your opportunity to voice your opinion to them in neutral territory. Relish it, imo.

I inferred from Lobo's responses (and I certainly could be wrong) that if they want to can you they will. And whatever you post, they read. I almost felt like he was threatening us to some degree to watch what we say in here too.

Me too.

Another one here.

sharpshot · « **Reply #89 on:** February 10, 2013, 19:15 »

It was funny to see Christian posting on the istock forum while serving another ban here

I wonder how many people that are banned here post there? Perhaps they should start a banned from MSG club?

Poncke · « **Reply #90 on:** February 10, 2013, 19:16 »

Quote from: Travelling-light on February 10, 2013, 18:36

Quote from: Poncke on February 10, 2013, 18:29
Basically what he is saying is that IS is aware of all the pain they are causing their own contributors but choose to do nothing about it.

Look what has come of the google deal revolt. Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

If I ran a company and saw this much heartache I would make changes. But thats just me.

I'll bet you're not rich though, are you?

No I am not, but you can make a lot of money whilst running a decent company.

The global company I work for now has called for 2013 to be the year to fix the top 15 pain points from a list they accumulated over the last two years, with customer and employee complaints. Money is no object, unlimited budget. And every time the top one pain point has been fixed, they add the next one to the bottom of the list, until the list is empty. That creates trust and motivation and the company is doing better then ever and everybody wants to hit their targets and then some. Its a great vibe to work in.

Poncke · « **Reply #91 on:** February 10, 2013, 19:16 »

Quote from: sharpshot on February 10, 2013, 19:15

It was funny to see Christian posting on the istock forum while serving another ban here I wonder how many people that are banned here post there? Perhaps they should start a banned from MSG club?

LMFAO !!!!!

Chico · « **Reply #92 on:** February 10, 2013, 19:17 »

Quote from: cobalt on February 10, 2013, 18:35

Any admins who want to work actively with the community will need professional training to learn how to communicate effectively via social media. Especially because a very large part of the community does not have English as a first language.

So, maybe Istockphoto staff training is conducted in North Korea right now.

Less sarcasm, threats and jokes might be a good start for new Forums.

Travelling-light · « **Reply #93 on:** February 10, 2013, 19:38 »

Quote from: Poncke on February 10, 2013, 19:16

Quote from: Travelling-light on February 10, 2013, 18:36
Quote from: Poncke on February 10, 2013, 18:29
Basically what he is saying is that IS is aware of all the pain they are causing their own contributors but choose to do nothing about it.

Look what has come of the google deal revolt. Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

If I ran a company and saw this much heartache I would make changes. But thats just me.

I'll bet you're not rich though, are you?
No I am not, but you can make a lot of money whilst running a decent company.

The global company I work for now has called for 2013 to be the year to fix the top 15 pain points from a list they accumulated over the last two years, with customer and employee complaints. Money is no object, unlimited budget. And every time the top one pain point has been fixed, they add the next one to the bottom of the list, until the list is empty. That creates trust and motivation and the company is doing better then ever and everybody wants to hit their targets and then some. Its a great vibe to work in.

If only others could realise that! However, it's been discussed many times on the IS forum, and yet here we are.

Babbalouie · « **Reply #94 on:** February 10, 2013, 19:53 »

Lobo, although I spend most of my time reading post from other artist, (here on MSG along with iStock and others) I always wonder about your heavy-handed responses. Why in the world would a large corporation let someone assail their contributors and suppliers with such anti-social abuse. As for Cobalt's assertion of the good cop bad cop routine, Why would you feel it necessary to game anyone on a forum? Some of us are quite intelligent.

Quote from: pieman on February 10, 2013, 16:31

I've actually added it to my facebook status. Terrific work. I think maybe you should consider a caption contest. I would be more than happy to participate in that.

As for this Banned from iStock Club: I understand. It's easy for you to speak about your experience without also taking into consideration the number of times I have had to contact people, delete posts, try as best as I can to rationalize why it's important for people to remain civil. I'm not perfect. I rise to the bait left out for me occasionally.

These are public forums too. We can all read them. Contributor Relations(who tend to get the worst of the frustration - see the deactivation notice thread you have going), Client Relations(they get the calls that should probably be going to Contributor Relations- no phone support is horrible, I know) and the few buyers who come in to see what is going on here. Everyone sees everything.

Anyhoo, I've already made it clear in the forum restructure thread that anyone who would like to discuss having their privileges reinstated are more than welcome to contact me via site mail on iStock. Clearly, not all of you have site mail either. So I suspect your best bet is via a support ticket.

Thanks, folks. Don't hate the player, hate the game

djpadavona · « **Reply #95 on:** February 10, 2013, 20:03 »

Quote from: Poncke on February 10, 2013, 19:07

I have never seen a moderator in a forum who is publicly putting people down, humiliating them, threatening them, patronizing them and what not. He argues with people and as soon as they dare to talk back they get banned.

Oh, I have seen it countless times across the internet in all manners of forums. The internet is the ultimate power trip, particularly because you almost never encounter the person you are attacking in real life. I call it "Keyboard Muscles."

blackwaterimages · « **Reply #96 on:** February 10, 2013, 20:12 »

Quote from: djpadavona on February 10, 2013, 20:03

The internet is the ultimate power trip, particularly because you almost never encounter the person you are attacking in real life.

AH! Maybe that's the real reason for the decline in iStockalypses.... They wouldn't want to have to face certain people in real life, I think.

ShadySue · « **Reply #97 on:** February 10, 2013, 20:23 »

Quote from: blackwaterimages on February 10, 2013, 20:12

Quote from: djpadavona on February 10, 2013, 20:03
The internet is the ultimate power trip, particularly because you almost never encounter the person you are attacking in real life.

AH! Maybe that's the real reason for the decline in iStockalypses.... They wouldn't want to have to face certain people in real life, I think.

I thought it was because RM took his yellow bucket with him when he left.

Sadstock · « **Reply #98 on:** February 10, 2013, 20:24 »

Quote from: pieman on February 10, 2013, 17:38

I guess that's part of the problem. Everyone wants to make things about me. Well it's about all of us. Yes, this is my account. I'm Lobo on iStock. I'm the horrible monster.

Maybe leaf will let you speak your mind. I can assure you I've read plenty of terrible things in my 11 years with iStock so you won't hurt my feelings. One thing you might consider: swearing and cursing at me might only go towards proving my point as to why you were banned in the first place.

As for the REASONS people are typically banned: it comes down to civility. There are people who seem to have an interesting way of omitting certain facts related to the loss of their privileges. I won't call people out but if you consider the inherent tone present here it might be easier to understand.

These forums have lurkers too. People who would like to participate are hesitant because there is rarely anything constructive going on. It seems to be a catch all for anger and rage. I read these forums everyday. Don't think for a second I don't.

Anyway. Have at it. I'll leave you all now and let you prove me wrong. Thanks for reading. Apologies for any grammar or spelling issue. I'm typing this on my phone.

-------------------------------------------
I agree that there is a lot of anger on MSG, but consider the position that contributors to IS and to all the other agencies are in. We are basically over a barrel and the agencies know it - play on their terms or take our marbles and go home. Contributors own and create a product that is becoming more and more a commodity every day, so our returns will shrink over time to the point that likely within a couple of years this will not be a viable industry for most. In fact, I think that MSG's existence (with all respects to Leaf) reflects the stress that contributors face in the face of this ongoing change.

While I think this change is inevitable given the technology and the global nature of the business, Istock has been the prime enabler of the acceleration of this change, so it gets the lion's share of the anger. Hopefully everyone at IS who reads this forum appreciates that.

As to the idea that there is rarely anything constructive going on MSG...
http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/a-list-of-partner-programs/

http://www.microstockgroup.com/general-stock-discussion/selling-rf-images-is-really-not-that-hard-php-developers-wanted/

http://www.microstockgroup.com/product-resale-forum/faa-the-largest-art-site-in-the-world/

EmberMike · « **Reply #99 on:** February 10, 2013, 20:24 »

I'm a member of many forums on many topics. I've never encountered anyone like him and I don't believe that he needs to act the way he does to pull off the "bad cop" routine. Most of the other forums I'm a part of are well-moderated and maintained without the attitude.

The one credit I do have to give the guy, though, is that he has the unfortunate task of moderating a forum for a company that has become especially stingy with information. I think that other microstock company forums have less combative environments because they still talk directly with contributors and don't rely on the forums alone to have a conversation. I can get people from SS on the phone. Bigstock, despite the poor launch of the subscription program, is at least responding to emails and answering some questions. istock has reduced their contributor communications to forums and one-way emails, putting added strain on the forum system as the sole means of a 2-way conversation.

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Author Topic: Banned from Istock club (Read 50261 times)

blackwaterimages

Poncke

cobalt

Travelling-light

Jo Ann Snover

luissantos84

Mantis

gbalex

blackwaterimages

JPSDK

Travelling-light

sharpshot

Poncke

Chico

sharpshot

Poncke

Poncke

Chico

Travelling-light

Babbalouie

djpadavona

blackwaterimages

ShadySue

Sadstock

EmberMike

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