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Author Topic: Best match woes...  (Read 24739 times)

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« on: February 25, 2008, 02:39 »
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I must have been lucky before.

But after my enforced three week break from iStock and coming back non-exclusive my files have sunk like stones.  I had a few files that I could guarantee would sell most days, or at least a few times a week.  They had really good search positions, several on the first page (I view twenty at a time, as I suspect most buyers do) and quite a few on the first two or three pages.  Several times I had the first "non-vector" image in the search, due to working with kids doing sports at stuff and basically finding a niche market!

I wondered why I'd only made a fraction of the sales I usually do in the week since I've been back, so I just looked through my search results.  I can't find any of my good sellers on the first twenty or thirty pages!  They're been knocked so far back in the general search terms that it's not funny!

Surely if they were good enough to be on the front page of the best match (clear images, good "stock" and good keywording) then they're still good enough to be on that page?  I mean, iStock even makes MORE from me than from exclusives!  Surely not being exclusive doesn't make a file bad?  The thing that is bothering me though, is my search positions aren't even as good as before I went exclusive!  Must have had a few shake ups I didn't notice.

I guess this is my punishment for making a mistake about the contract, but it's frustrating.  If these sales don't pick up to where I was last August before I went exclusive (and I've doubled my portfolio size since then, at least!) then it's just massively set back my need to go full time in September.  Actually, that's not true, I have to go full time in September by any method possible...

Anyway, rant over.  I feel a bit better!
« Last Edit: February 25, 2008, 02:40 by Seren »


« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2008, 02:50 »
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Mind you, thinking about it, I guess that downloads per month is probably quite heavily weighted into the algorithm, so I guess it's to be expected!

« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2008, 03:24 »
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Seren,

What was your reason for dropping your exclusivity?

« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2008, 04:28 »
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Recently the best match search seems to be giving a huge advantage to exclusives.  My sales have dropped by 50% there over the last few months. It's the only site where I won't be getting a best match this month.  I've gone from selling over 40 a day average to just over 20 at IS. This time last year IS was by far my best earner wheras this month I am making double on SS and 1 of the other sites have overtaken IS putting it in 3rd place.

« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2008, 04:42 »
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Seren,

What was your reason for dropping your exclusivity?

Loads of reasons.  Mostly because I was building up a portfolio of images that iStock didn't want ("not suitable for stock" or things like, kayaking images shot at ISO800 to noisy, but of course there is no other way when shooting in a gorge in Wales...) so I wanted to offer these shots somewhere else.

I'm also not really happy with getting such little per usage on my better shots, so I've started offering my best other places for higher amounts.  I'd rather it was bought once for a large amount, than several times for a smaller amount.  I don't care about exposure and crediting, I care about the money.

Royalty Free images should demand a higher price than your average rights managed image, and something didn't sit right about me offering my work rights managed and undercutting it by so much for a royalty free sale.

Plus I was getting some really, really silly rejections that I really couldn't be bothered to send to scout.  For instance, I took my new Canon 5D out shooting, early one morning.  Took some sunrise shots where I live.  Clear, deep blue skies, and deep blue water from the reflections in the harbour.  All rejected for overfiltering.  I didn't bloody do anything to them!  They were great straight off the RAW file, no contrast bumps, no saturation bumps, that was just how they were!  All marked no-resubmit.  Just stupid.  I think I'm going to chuck them on Alamy, since they're fairly unusual shots of where I live.

Plus they screwed up the business cards I ordered from them.  Cropped really badly.  How do you crop an isolated on white shot badly?

And the constant tweeking of best match.

And the culling of images that is such double standard.  Either get rid of everything that is a trademark, or get rid of nothing.

And loads more I don't have time to type at the moment...

« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2008, 09:04 »
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whats new with istock? :-\ they have been tweaking that monster forever....

« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2008, 09:46 »
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I'm not exclusive there, but I might have my best month in two years there. I am seriously considering going exclusive at the next canister level, but gives me the creeps thinking about it. I've had a huge surge in sales since the beginning of the year and I'm thinking for once I am the beneficiary of some Best Match tweaking (finally!). I see what other exclusive members in my situation sell and there is no comparison, they sell far more than I do. IMHO, exclusives have a huge advantage over non-exlcusives  (unless you are someone like Yuri).

lisafx

« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2008, 16:15 »
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Seren, thanks for posting this.  I have been of the opinion for several months that the best match is increasingly weighted toward exclusives, so your report doesn't come as a big surprise.  But it is good to see it confirmed by someone who has experienced both sides. 

Don't know what to tell you except that as you build your portfolios on other sites your istock sales will become less important to your overall bottom line. 

« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2008, 20:31 »
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Recently the best match search seems to be giving a huge advantage to exclusives.
I'm exclusive and my downloads have gone down drastically this month (down 60% over last month)!

It always amazes me how much people are willing to extrapolate their own experience to the general population. You can't draw general conclusions from anecdotal evidence (well I guess you can but you shouldn't). I'm not saying that exclusivity doesn't play a part in the best match, because it probably does, but I very much doubt has a significant effect.   

« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2008, 00:50 »
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That's interesting.  I'm sorry your dls have gone down so much but I find it reassuring that it isn't just us non exclusives as we suspected. The drop has been so dramatic lately that the obvious reason seemed to be that best match weighting. Thanks for letting us know that and it would be interesting if any other exclusive would let us know how they are doing.
Recently the best match search seems to be giving a huge advantage to exclusives.
I'm exclusive and my downloads have gone down drastically this month (down 60% over last month)!

It always amazes me how much people are willing to extrapolate their own experience to the general population. You can't draw general conclusions from anecdotal evidence (well I guess you can but you shouldn't). I'm not saying that exclusivity doesn't play a part in the best match, because it probably does, but I very much doubt has a significant effect.   

« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2008, 06:28 »
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I'm exclusive at istock and my sales are down a bit on January but not hugely - they have been very very volatile though - some really good days, and some shockers. If I have a few more of the good days it's conceivable I could equal the January sales figures, but it's more likely I'll be down around ten per cent. I do have a small portfolio, which is therefore subject to swings. And my best seller has just dropped off the most popular files page so it's sales have tanked, and I expected a slow down   (some mean *insult removed* gave it a 4/5, knocking it out of the top fifteen ! - but it had six months of free pimping so I can't complain)

« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2008, 10:01 »
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Thanks for your input Susan and sorry about your best seller, I've had that happen a couple of times.
 I think that they must have changed the best match again in the last couple of days.  Yesterday was my best day for ages and in the last couple of days I have sold 7 images that have never sold before and several that had only had 1 or 2  sales previously.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2008, 10:03 by fotografer »

lisafx

« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2008, 11:26 »
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Agreed - people willing to share their experience is very much appreciated.  I had assumed it was a best match issue also.  Maybe more related to the price increase?  Or maybe the phases of the moon, LOL. 

Whatever the reason sales are down, and I do note that my personal search positions have suffered.  Not all that paranoid to assume that is a contributing factor to lower sales...

« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2008, 11:27 »
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I guess I must have been caught in both a best match change and my lowered rankings due to lowered d/l per month!  Double Whammy!

« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2008, 12:11 »
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I'm exclusive at istock and my sales are down a bit on January but not hugely - they have been very very volatile though - some really good days, and some shockers. If I have a few more of the good days it's conceivable I could equal the January sales figures, but it's more likely I'll be down around ten per cent. I do have a small portfolio, which is therefore subject to swings. And my best seller has just dropped off the most popular files page so it's sales have tanked, and I expected a slow down   (some mean *insult removed* gave it a 4/5, knocking it out of the top fifteen ! - but it had six months of free pimping so I can't complain)

We've all be the recipient of changes in the best match search engine. I had an image that when you typed in the word "vineyard" it was on the first line of the search for like six months. Made a ton of money off it it, then some best match tweaking and 1.5 years later, maybe 3 downloads.

This is curious about the 4/5 rating. The IS zealots will tell you that ratings have no impact on best match searchs, but in your case they did. I remember having several people rate an image of mine about a year ago and it quickly zoomed to the top of the search for that object, but over time it has slowly slipped down the best match search results. So, I think there is some type of time thing to promote newer images.

« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2008, 12:25 »
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I wonder if they don't have some kind of 6 month rotation.  Has anyone had a hot seller for more than 6 months?  I have some that would sell daily or several times a day and when they hit six months they fell off the map.

vonkara

« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2008, 13:02 »
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I don't think there is a rotation. As I see the most downl/month stay at the top whit small difference sometimes because of ratings and maybe many other things.

But if you talk about page 100 and more I think there's a rotation at this point. IS would not have advantage to let the same files there too much longer. But who knows?

« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2008, 13:11 »
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Right now I'm seeing more sales in my older files than my newer ones. It's true though, if you have an image that doesn't start selling right off the mark, you can pretty much kiss it goodbye.

« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2008, 13:31 »
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Istocks best match really...really sucks.and  favors exclusive people to the MAX, in fact it might as well not even include us non exclusives. It is one thing to pay exclusive more for being exclusiveok I can live with that and it make good business sense, but if I have a good photo then it should have the same possibilities of being found as every other photobut NO..not Istock.

  I have lots of Education photos on the site...I just did a keyword search of  Education Childhood   if you search by most downloaded I have photos on most pages starting with page 3. My best photo has 405 downloads......but if you search by best match....Holy.sh*%^&*  I cant even find my best sellerI looked thru 50 pages and not even 1 of my photosbut if you search to the very very end.starting on page 290 and counting backwards youll find all my photos in fact many of theses pages have only my photossuch as page 289.  How is it that ALL my photos are in one big group.  Pretty simple..I am not exclusive so pick up the table scraps. >:(

I sure hope buyers dont use best match too much, cusus no exclusives are going to get the short end of the stick.

In contrast sites like DT seem to much fairer on the best match search. I hope they pick up more market share so IS will be forced to get off their high horse and treat us a little fairer.

« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2008, 17:20 »
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We've all be the recipient of changes in the best match search engine. I had an image that when you typed in the word "vineyard" it was on the first line of the search for like six months. Made a ton of money off it it, then some best match tweaking and 1.5 years later, maybe 3 downloads.

This is curious about the 4/5 rating. The IS zealots will tell you that ratings have no impact on best match searchs, but in your case they did. I remember having several people rate an image of mine about a year ago and it quickly zoomed to the top of the search for that object, but over time it has slowly slipped down the best match search results. So, I think there is some type of time thing to promote newer images.
It wasn't a change in the best match positioning that slowed sales down - the file was number fifteen on the highest rated in the last three months (actually highest rated ever!) page which really givs it lots of exposure - but the way that istock calculates ratings ordering is that 183 fives and one four is outrated by a file with just one 5... So if someone wants to get rid of a file on that page (or make sure that the image of the week never makes it onto it), all that they need to do is rate it 4 rather than 5, and it will never get the exposure. And it really does make a difference to the sales - my file dropped off temporarily while some other image was rating higher and my sales went down, until someone gave another of the top fifteen a 1/5 and my image went back up into the top fifteen again and its sales picked up.

I must confess that for the first few months I guarded that exposure jealously and sitemailed anyone that rated it less than five, politely asking whether they meant for their rating to bump the image off the highest rated page- and all the people concerned changed their ratings  to 5s for me!

« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2008, 18:25 »
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Istocks best match really...really sucks.and  favors exclusive people to the MAX, in fact it might as well not even include us non exclusives. It is one thing to pay exclusive more for being exclusiveok I can live with that and it make good business sense, but if I have a good photo then it should have the same possibilities of being found as every other photobut NO..not Istock.

Yet the top selling iStock artist this month, again, by massive margin is the non exclusive Yuri.

lisafx

« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2008, 18:45 »
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Yes, Yuri is quite a phenomenon.  I would not judge istock's best match performance by Yuri though.  He is the exception to the rule. 

I suspect that people may actually come looking for Yuri's portfolio, so he may be a bit less reliant on the best match than some of the rest of us. 

« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2008, 02:18 »
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thesentinel - how do you get those numbers?  Is there a league table somewhere?

« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2008, 02:32 »
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Lets get a few things straight about the best match, because its not unfair and its not rocket science.  Here's my understanding FWIW:

The last best match change happened many months ago and it was quite a radical change which limited a non-exclusive to having a max of four files in the first 100 of a search, and an exclusive to 8 files.  The limitations were imposed due to the discovery of a 'rigging gang' of three photographers who were systematically buying a copy or two of every one of their new uploads within minutes of approval; this created a huge dl/month number for all of their files and guaranteed first page placement in any best match search.  They were discovered due to the large number of files appearing on first pages and the similarity of the pictures (two of them were using the same camera, studio and props and may in fact have been the same person).  These two accounts were both exclusive.

The limitations of 4 and 8 were imposed in order that such rigging could never happen again.  I think its only fair that exclusives should have a higher number than non-exclusives.  Apart from this, there is no preference to exclusives.

EXCEPT......

There is another factor that influences the placing in the search; it isn't best match but the faster approval times.  Let me explain: the main component of best match is dl/month.  This is calculated not from the approval date but from the upload date.

Now imagine this situation: a non-exclusive and an exclusive both upload a highly commercial file. The exclusive image is accepted within a day; the non-exclusive takes a week.  Both files get a first download one day after approval.

The non-exclusive file gets an immediate dl/month number of 4 (because the upload was a week earlier). The exclusive file gets a dl/month number of 31 (because it was uploaded just a day before).

This explains why it appears that exclusives get preferential treatment in the best match.  But the only advantage is gained by files that are highly commercial and attract immediate sales; over time, the 'time advantage' gets diuted away.

I hope all this makes sense.  It is of course just my own understanding of how it all works.

« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2008, 02:45 »
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Totally agree that the best match is no more "unfair" to exclusives or non.  It's unfair to everyone.

The thing is, it's a bad system.  Full stop.

Take my picture of a little girl doing archery.  Not a great picture, but it illustrates a girl doing archery at a youth camp.  A subject in demand I guess by the downloads it had last summer.  Now, if you do a "best match" search for it, it's miles back.  It's behind loads of crap that isn't archery.  So therefore, if a customer does a search for archery, and finds other files that aren't relevant, what's that saying to them?

This isn't a best match at all - it's a popularity contest.  With downloads per month and ratings still being in that equation somewhere it's a sheer popularity contest.  That's not what the best match should be.  For instance, if I had a really high positioned file in the "vegetable" search, and added "bouncy castle" as a keyword, it would show up high in the second search, even though it is not relevant.  Wiking doesn't help, I've had two files with their keywords under review for 14 months now.

To get a true best match, iStock need to introduce some way of determining what the best files are.  Such as picking one or two keywords as your "subject".  So in the above example I could pick "archery" and "youth" as my subject, which would mean that theoretically a search for archery would only yield pictures of people doing archery.  Not hundreds of pictures of vector targets (that look nothing like an archery target btw), or even totally random stuff that shouldn't be there.

But then again, I'm sure most half decent designers don't actually use the best match, I'm sure they use things like age and downloads to find the file they want.  It's the multitude of uneducated buyers that use the best match search, the ones we need to cultivate into bigger and better buyers, that we could be putting off with the search algorithm itself.  "Best Match" gives an illusion of some sort of hand sorted search, which of course it isn't.

Anyway, that was me thinking out load.


 

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