Author Topic: Big refunds happening again (Read 9041 times)

Mantis · « **on:** July 19, 2012, 07:24 »

http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=345607&page=1

Really unsettling. Looks like refunds are becoming more rampant.

OP at Istock:

You are not reading that topic incorrectly. Since May 29th of this year I have had 133 files refunded for a total of $1,993.29 worth of royalties removed from my iStock account for either fraud, accidental download, whatever. That's royalties, not actual cost of the files (which would have totaled around $5,700 worth of my artwork). Just yesterday I received 24 "Refund for a Purchase of Your File" emails from iStock totaling $471.30 in refunds for a batch of my files that were downloaded on June 26th. So yeah, typically how this has been playing out is I withdraw what is in my account at the end of the week (as per usual), thinking I have done pretty well for the week. Then I get 20 to 30 emails from iStock the next week, each with various amounts of refunds totaling somewhere around $500, putting my iStock account in the hole somewhere around that amount. By the time I've made up the difference and gotten my account back to $0, BOOM! - another batch of refund notices, putting me right back in the hole. Is there anyone else out there getting refund notices at this rate? I've seen people complaining about handfuls of files being refunded. But nothing like this. I feel like I'm on an island here.

I'm not just jumping into the forums here simply to throw a fit. My first course of action was to email iStock about this. At first they gave me the reasons as to why the files were refunded and explained nicely that there was really nothing they could do about it. Now they just won't respond to my emails at all. So here I am. Just want to see if there are others experiencing this kind of volume of refunds. Surely I am not the only one. All of us here need to know just how bad this problem really is. This isn't just a little problem. This is like a Yoko Ono to the Beatles kind of a problem.

ShadySue · « **Reply #1 on:** July 19, 2012, 07:38 »

The OP is an iStock exclusive illustrator.
What about the exclusive promise: "Exclusivity makes it easier for us to protect our contributors."
As it's being going on for so long, you'd think they'd have some sort of 'watch' on the OP's port/sales, whereupon they might have caught the perp/s redhanded. I'm sure it's not quite as easy as that, but this is 2012.
But actually, they should have done that even had the victim been indie. Protect everybody's interests.

loop · « **Reply #2 on:** July 19, 2012, 07:48 »

It seems to be an isolated case. I hardly get one, two refunds a month, on hundreds of downloads.

cmannphoto · « **Reply #3 on:** July 19, 2012, 07:57 »

Quote from: loop on July 19, 2012, 07:48

It seems to be an isolated case. I hardly get one, two refunds a month, on hundreds of downloads.

There has been a lot of complaints, maybe not at this scale, but most of the time the posts are deleted or locked, told to go ask CR.
I was really surprised that they left this one open.

ShadySue · « **Reply #4 on:** July 19, 2012, 08:13 »

Quote from: loop on July 19, 2012, 07:48

It seems to be an isolated case. I hardly get one, two refunds a month, on hundreds of downloads.

That's even more reason why they should have been monitoring his port. After a few days, someone should have noticed a pattern and flagged it up.

Microbius · « **Reply #5 on:** July 19, 2012, 08:21 »

That's what happens when there's no motivation for the site to clamp down on fraud. IStock should have to foot the bill. IStock lets the fraud happen, and it's the OP that gets their work out there on pirate sites. All the pain is on the artist's side. Sucks.

malamus · « **Reply #6 on:** July 19, 2012, 08:32 »

Unfortunately I cannot post the main thing that I would like to say regarding refunds for fear of repercussions but I will say I'm in total agreement that refunds should only be given to upgrade a file. The monkey script that tells buyers if they have already purchased an image should be standard when logged in. And as an incentive to IS to stop this happening, THEY should incur the costs to a contribute

click_click · « **Reply #7 on:** July 19, 2012, 08:46 »

I feel sorry for the guy. He is an outstanding illustrator and If I was him I would drop iStock in a heartbeat.

His work is worth more than what iStock is charging for it. Hopefully he gets it sorted one way or another but I would not do business exclusively any longer with an agent who treats me this way.

I had a refund as well and hope it stays at that but obviously iStock has still lots of problems processing payments correctly.

Nobody can tell me that all other agencies have such superior anti-fraud measures in place...

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #8 on:** July 19, 2012, 12:02 »

I don't have many refunds, but yesterday I received one for a sale from February 18th for $7 - they did give me the file number. I know they've refused to provide reasons (which they once did) and refused to answer support requests for a specific reason, but I think it is just outrageous (a) to allow a refund so long after the sale and (b) not to be specific about why.

And as far as not responding to support requests, I've had that experience too - I have a ticket from May 4th that I've added an inquiry to June 4th (ish) and July 4th (ish) to ask please to get an answer of some kind. Silence - being ignored really gets under my skin (but it's not as important as this guy getting so many refunds).

traveler1116 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 19, 2012, 12:47 »

Quote from: click_click on July 19, 2012, 08:46

I feel sorry for the guy. He is an outstanding illustrator and If I was him I would drop iStock in a heartbeat.

His work is worth more than what iStock is charging for it. Hopefully he gets it sorted one way or another but I would not do business exclusively any longer with an agent who treats me this way.

Just curious but where does one go to get more than $25 per sale, I don't think anywhere on microstock does that? I don't get many refunds but the last three of mine were for upgrades 2 from $7 sales to $80 ELs and 1 from around $8 to an XXL $25.

cathyslife · « **Reply #10 on:** July 19, 2012, 13:40 »

Quote from: traveler1116 on July 19, 2012, 12:47

Quote from: click_click on July 19, 2012, 08:46
I feel sorry for the guy. He is an outstanding illustrator and If I was him I would drop iStock in a heartbeat.

His work is worth more than what iStock is charging for it. Hopefully he gets it sorted one way or another but I would not do business exclusively any longer with an agent who treats me this way.
Just curious but where does one go to get more than $25 per sale, I don't think anywhere on microstock does that? I don't get many refunds but the last three of mine were for upgrades 2 from $7 sales to $80 ELs and 1 from around $8 to an XXL $25.

Since he is an illustrator, does istock charge more for vector files? I don't know the answer and I don't care enough to go to the istock website and look, but on other sites that I do frequent, .eps files are generally more $$.

traveler1116 · « **Reply #11 on:** July 19, 2012, 13:49 »

Quote from: cclapper on July 19, 2012, 13:40

Quote from: traveler1116 on July 19, 2012, 12:47
Quote from: click_click on July 19, 2012, 08:46
I feel sorry for the guy. He is an outstanding illustrator and If I was him I would drop iStock in a heartbeat.

His work is worth more than what iStock is charging for it. Hopefully he gets it sorted one way or another but I would not do business exclusively any longer with an agent who treats me this way.
Just curious but where does one go to get more than $25 per sale, I don't think anywhere on microstock does that? I don't get many refunds but the last three of mine were for upgrades 2 from $7 sales to $80 ELs and 1 from around $8 to an XXL $25.

Since he is an illustrator, does istock charge more for vector files? I don't know the answer and I don't care enough to go to the istock website and look, but on other sites that I do frequent, .eps files are generally more $$.

Looks like up to 60 credits.

Lagereek · « **Reply #12 on:** July 19, 2012, 13:53 »

Just confirms my thoughts really, this present admin, dont care one bit, just collecting their pay-cheque in the end of month, nothing else, no incentive, no motivation, no foresight, nothing. Just a bunch of workers. Thats it.

click_click · « **Reply #13 on:** July 19, 2012, 14:18 »

Quote from: traveler1116 on July 19, 2012, 12:47

Quote from: click_click on July 19, 2012, 08:46
I feel sorry for the guy. He is an outstanding illustrator and If I was him I would drop iStock in a heartbeat.

His work is worth more than what iStock is charging for it. Hopefully he gets it sorted one way or another but I would not do business exclusively any longer with an agent who treats me this way.
Just curious but where does one go to get more than $25 per sale, I don't think anywhere on microstock does that? I don't get many refunds but the last three of mine were for upgrades 2 from $7 sales to $80 ELs and 1 from around $8 to an XXL $25.

Microstock ist not the only wya to get rid of pictures/illustrations.

Vectors can also do well in Macro markets. Furthermore there are specialty sites (in micro) that only sell vectors, one of which being clipartof.com that doesn't accept new artist's anymore but there you can set your own pricing for example.

Google is your friend. If you do some research you can find plenty of places to get your illustrations sold.

ShadySue · « **Reply #14 on:** July 19, 2012, 18:57 »

And someone has already posted about finding the OP's vectors being offered free off other websites.

traveler1116 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 19, 2012, 19:02 »

Quote from: ShadySue on July 19, 2012, 18:57

And someone has already posted about finding the OP's vectors being offered free off other websites.

I just checked and one site has been offering one of his skulls since 2009 another one had over 4000 downloads so probably it was also up there before this happened.

ShadySue · « **Reply #16 on:** July 19, 2012, 19:11 »

Quote from: traveler1116 on July 19, 2012, 19:02

Quote from: ShadySue on July 19, 2012, 18:57
And someone has already posted about finding the OP's vectors being offered free off other websites.

I just checked and one site has been offering one of his skulls since 2009 another one had over 4000 downloads so probably it was also up there before this happened.

That's awful.

traveler1116 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 19, 2012, 19:16 »

Quote from: ShadySue on July 19, 2012, 19:11

Quote from: traveler1116 on July 19, 2012, 19:02
Quote from: ShadySue on July 19, 2012, 18:57
And someone has already posted about finding the OP's vectors being offered free off other websites.

I just checked and one site has been offering one of his skulls since 2009 another one had over 4000 downloads so probably it was also up there before this happened.
That's awful.

Yep you have to check up on your work if you want it protected. I try to go through my better sellers every couple months and get the illegal usages taken down, istock seems to take care of that pretty quickly.

ShadySue · « **Reply #18 on:** July 19, 2012, 19:38 »

Quote from: traveler1116 on July 19, 2012, 19:16

Quote from: ShadySue on July 19, 2012, 19:11
Quote from: traveler1116 on July 19, 2012, 19:02

Yep you have to check up on your work if you want it protected. I try to go through my better sellers every couple months and get the illegal usages taken down, istock seems to take care of that pretty quickly.
Hmmm, that's not always been my experience. Some have been resolved, but at least two have been outstanding for over six months.
Do you always get feedback, or do you have to keep checking? A while ago when GIS started, I got feedback if an issue was resolved, but now I just have to keep checking to see if it's still 'up'.
Pinterest we have to contact ourselves; iStock won't do it as it's an iStock 'affiliate', but they're generally pretty fast. I went directly to iheartit, which is similar, and again they took the pics down fairly quickly.

traveler1116 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 19, 2012, 19:47 »

Quote from: ShadySue on July 19, 2012, 19:38

Quote from: traveler1116 on July 19, 2012, 19:16
Quote from: ShadySue on July 19, 2012, 19:11
Quote from: traveler1116 on July 19, 2012, 19:02

Yep you have to check up on your work if you want it protected. I try to go through my better sellers every couple months and get the illegal usages taken down, istock seems to take care of that pretty quickly.
Hmmm, that's not always been my experience. Some have been resolved, but at least two have been outstanding for over six months.
Do you always get feedback, or do you have to keep checking? A while ago when GIS started, I got feedback if an issue was resolved, but now I just have to keep checking to see if it's still 'up'.
Pinterest we have to contact ourselves; iStock won't do it as it's an iStock 'affiliate', but they're generally pretty fast. I went directly to iheartit, which is similar, and again they took the pics down fairly quickly.
I do keep checking but I haven't had the same problem show up after I contacted iStock so it seems they have always fix it. Have you tried to contact support again on the pinterest issue, I haven't seen anything posted in the forums saying that pinterest is an affiliate or anything at all on it.

malamus · « **Reply #20 on:** July 20, 2012, 04:22 »

How can one check if ones work is for sale/used else where illegally?

Karimala · « **Reply #21 on:** July 20, 2012, 04:51 »

Quote from: malamus on July 20, 2012, 04:22

How can one check if ones work is for sale/used else where illegally?

Google has an image search where you can drag an image into the search field, and it will find the image. Somehow there's also a way to add it to Firefox where you can just right-click on the image and search Google that way, but I can't find it (middle of the night and I'm too tired to look...LOL).

https://encrypted.google.com/imghp

ShadySue · « **Reply #22 on:** July 20, 2012, 06:18 »

I couldn't get the FF version to work, but it's native to the Chrome browser, that I use only for that purpose.

Last night I discovered a new one to me: a site that had one of mine, and several other iStock photos all at the size of the unwatermarked thumbnail. I bet they'd say, "You can't prove that they didn't buy them", which is true, but the balance of evidence, including it just looking stupid, would suggest that they just lifted them.

ShadySue · « **Reply #23 on:** July 20, 2012, 06:46 »

Quote from: traveler1116 on July 19, 2012, 19:47

I do keep checking but I haven't had the same problem show up after I contacted iStock so it seems they have always fix it. Have you tried to contact support again on the pinterest issue, I haven't seen anything posted in the forums saying that pinterest is an affiliate or anything at all on it.

Yes, I did. I asked specifically what benefit either I or iStock could get out of photos with no watermark, no credit and no linkback pinned to pinterest presumably from the website of a legitimate buyer. I've had no reply to that one, and it has fallen off my Open Tickets list (that bug may not have been fixed?).
When Sean mentioned it in iStock's forum, there was no official denial that pinterest is an affiliate. No confirmation either, but I'd have assumed that if it was a mistake, they'd have said so.

I have also recontacted them about the long-standing issues. They said they were onto it, and reassured me that I would not be held liable in the event of any legal issue regarding use of an editorial photo in a commercial context, which is what I was most worried abut. They seem sure that the image wasn't purchased from iStock; yet although it's had several sales, neither they nor I can find any other instance of it online.
The other longstanding one (watermarked editorial) is on Turkish eBay, so maybe language is a problem.

On the other side, going through my tickets, I'm surprised how many of the sites which I complained about having a picture on have apparently disappeared, i.e. the whole site is no longer live. There must be a lot of 'stuff' going on there.

I complained about another use where the site claimed copyright to one of my photos - slightly odd, as they had two other images on the same page credited CC to Flicker togs (which I checked and was true). Anyway, after a few days my photo was removed totally, so maybe they hadn't even licensed the pic.

The most recent misuses I've flagged up seem to be cleared.

(Note to self: designate a folder for resolved issues and save time!)

ShadySue · « **Reply #24 on:** July 20, 2012, 07:14 »

To save anyone else contacting me re the pinterest/affiliate thing, here's a screenshot of the email I received. I have blanked out the CR person's name in case they made a genuine mistake: we all make them, and I wouldn't necessarily want to be pilloried in public for mine:

(My pics are off these pinterest locations now, as I contacted pinterest directly.)

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Author Topic: Big refunds happening again (Read 9041 times)

Mantis

ShadySue

loop

cmannphoto

ShadySue

Microbius

malamus

click_click

Jo Ann Snover

traveler1116

cathyslife

traveler1116

Lagereek

click_click

ShadySue

traveler1116

ShadySue

traveler1116

ShadySue

traveler1116

malamus

Karimala

ShadySue

ShadySue

ShadySue

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