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Author Topic: Buyers Bailing on Istock  (Read 387812 times)

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rubyroo

« Reply #375 on: October 25, 2010, 13:56 »
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Drat... now you've gone and reawoken my childhood longing for a bat phone.... and a butler...


« Reply #376 on: October 25, 2010, 14:59 »
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Hi All,

 If you can't figure out that release issues would climb when 6 million images are added from all corners of the world then that is your choice.
Good Luck,
Jonathan

Do you mean a greater percentage or just a greater number?  Just telling us that the number of issues is climbing just because the number of images is climbing is simply stating the obvious and is meaningless.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 15:01 by cybernesco »

« Reply #377 on: October 25, 2010, 15:31 »
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That is so true.


But in regards to this part of your statement that I've quoted above, in an ideal world I'm sure we'd all like to see this happen, but varying data protection laws around the world and a real life practicality issue means that it'll never be foolproof, even Gettys guarantee doesn't actually mean much because they can't guarantee the information, they're just insured against it.

« Reply #378 on: October 25, 2010, 15:31 »
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Like I said, the conferences like to invite you because they know you put on a good show for photographers ( I assume you do), and that's what helps them up their attendance figures to make more cash.  What is going to make more money for them - 'J Ross tells how to make big money in stock' or 'SJ recommends not training your competition' - lol!
Classic. Thank you Sean.

« Reply #379 on: October 25, 2010, 15:44 »
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I have no doubt about Johnathan's professional qualifications as a very accomplished photographer. It is also very nice of him to share his knowledge and insights about the industry.

However, Johnathan, I hope you are not bothered by some people's comments because we all have our own opinions, and you just cannot please everyone.

« Reply #380 on: October 25, 2010, 16:14 »
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Hi Freedom,

 No these people don't get to me anymore, why should they everyone is entitled to their opinion. I gave that up a while ago but thank you for the advice and the support. You cannot please all the people and when you are willing to share information there will always be people that disagree or worse. No worries.

Best,
Jonathan

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #381 on: October 25, 2010, 17:11 »
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Has it ever been confirmed that all the Hulton Archive pics on iStock are properly model released? If you look at the Winter Wonderland lightbox featured on the front page (images rotate, you might have to wait) there's a photo of several people walking in snow. Looks about 1950s-ish. Of course, this image may well have been set up with models, but I can't help but wonder. And even if the image is fully MRed, are the MRs really of the current MR standards that we'd have to submit? We've been assured that these images are inspected to the same standards as the rest of us have to reach, but sometimes, it's really questionable.

« Reply #382 on: October 25, 2010, 17:47 »
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Well I think if you post on a microstock forum, full of microstock contributors, and make a sweeping claim that too many contributors fake their releases, you are indirectly pointing the finger at the contributors on this board.  I don't see where it is being "overly aggressive" if we ask you to back up your claims with some data.  If anyone is being aggressive, it is the poster who enters this forum and suggests we are faking our releases.

« Reply #383 on: October 25, 2010, 18:02 »
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Well I think if you post on a microstock forum, full of microstock contributors, and make a sweeping claim that too many contributors fake their releases, you are indirectly pointing the finger at the contributors on this board.  I don't see where it is being "overly aggressive" if we ask you to back up your claims with some data.  If anyone is being aggressive, it is the poster who enters this forum and suggests we are faking our releases.
I haven't felt accused by anything Jonathan has written. In the context of a discussion on why buyers might be wary of microstock, and what the purpose of istock's legal guarantee is, to raise the issue of false model releases is entirely appropriate. This forum has only a tiny fraction of total microstock contributors, and I don't think he's pointing the finger at anyone here, just a general discussion.

lisafx

« Reply #384 on: October 25, 2010, 18:22 »
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Well, I tend to come down on the side of the folks that expect information presented as factual to be verified with data.  Otherwise it's opinion, not fact.  

Not that there's anything wrong with folks presenting their opinions and theories.  We all do it.   But if you aren't able to back up your opinions then you have to expect they will be challenged.  

Jonathan, if you are hearing from heads of agencies that model releases being faked is a big problem, that's interesting info, and if that perception exists among buyers it threatens all of our livelihoods to a degree.  Even if you can't reveal who told you that, it would be nice to know more details.  

I think the reason you may be getting treated "aggressively" is that you tend to leave titillating posts hinting at some private insider knowledge, but then you don't follow through and reveal any inside information.  If it is confidential and you aren't at liberty to reveal it, why reference it at all?   It just comes off as kind of gossipy and that gets on people's nerves.  
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 18:23 by lisafx »

« Reply #385 on: October 25, 2010, 19:23 »
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Hi Freedom,

 No these people don't get to me anymore, why should they everyone is entitled to their opinion. I gave that up a while ago but thank you for the advice and the support. You cannot please all the people and when you are willing to share information there will always be people that disagree or worse. No worries.

Best,
Jonathan

That's not information, just speculation, maybe wishful thinking. Information has data and proof.

« Reply #386 on: October 25, 2010, 21:41 »
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Lisa, Jonathan is not taking the oath under the Bible, isn't he?  If you don't believe what he says, that is perfectly fine. He is under no obligation to testify and backup his assertions because he was merely sharing what he believes, even if it was just heresays or fallacies. He is not in court.

When I first entered the stock photo market a few years ago, I was actually advised by someone to fake model release. Who? It's none of your business but I can tell you with the utmost certainty that I will never ever fake any model releases. That person was trying to be helpful to me in a wrong way, but how I act is directed by my own character and conscience.

Well, I tend to come down on the side of the folks that expect information presented as factual to be verified with data.  Otherwise it's opinion, not fact.  

Not that there's anything wrong with folks presenting their opinions and theories.  We all do it.   But if you aren't able to back up your opinions then you have to expect they will be challenged.  

Jonathan, if you are hearing from heads of agencies that model releases being faked is a big problem, that's interesting info, and if that perception exists among buyers it threatens all of our livelihoods to a degree.  Even if you can't reveal who told you that, it would be nice to know more details.  

I think the reason you may be getting treated "aggressively" is that you tend to leave titillating posts hinting at some private insider knowledge, but then you don't follow through and reveal any inside information.  If it is confidential and you aren't at liberty to reveal it, why reference it at all?   It just comes off as kind of gossipy and that gets on people's nerves.  
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 22:03 by Freedom »

« Reply #387 on: October 25, 2010, 21:54 »
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Looks to me like you're out-voted Jonathan. Take yet another 'Bull-Sh!t Badge' for your nonsensical and misleading posts. In truth you don't know too much about this game as proven by your sales record in micro. Judging by that you're the wrong side of 'Average' and certainly no expert as you like to pretend. Somehow though you are actually very good at persuading newbies that you are a guru and long may you continue to mine that vein if it provides you with some income or fluffs up your ego.

Btw, taking an opposite point of view to you isn't 'aggressive' and it is actually allowed. It seems that you squeal "Unfair" every time that you lose an an argument. Heigh-ho.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 21:56 by gostwyck »

« Reply #388 on: October 25, 2010, 22:50 »
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 Hi All,

 I only try to offer advice and information and learn here as well, what good do I get out of writing here and trying to answer questions or share information? I am really only out to help others, if it doesn't help you maybe blow it off and move on as I am trying to do from this continuos circle of trying to prove myself. It is so the others out there that are looking for help can find some. If from now on I can't back up a statement that I know to be true without hurting other people and agencies by sharing names then I will no longer post such comments.
 Please remember I am only trying to help photographers out whenever I can I hope I have been help to some as obviously I have not been to others. I also realize that some of my posts are of more interest than others and to different people. This seems to have been spun into a " Micro stockers don't know how to get releases " and that was never said and never meant to be implied, if you read it that way I am sorry for not making it clearer. If anyone ever has a question about anything I might be able to help with please feel welcome to send me a PM I am always willing to help in any way I can, I'm not going anywhere ;)

Best,
Jonathan

lisafx

« Reply #389 on: October 25, 2010, 22:59 »
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Lisa, Jonathan is not taking the oath under the Bible, isn't he?  If you don't believe what he says, that is perfectly fine. He is under no obligation to testify and backup his assertions because he was merely sharing what he believes, even if it was just heresays or fallacies. He is not in court.


Freedom, you seem to have misread my post.  I didn't say I don't believe Jonathan, nor that he didn't have a right to state his opinions.  I merely asked that he differentiate his opinions (or beliefs since you prefer that word) from concrete facts.  And I asked if he has concrete facts, that he elaborate them.  In fact, you quoted me and I said we are all entitled to our opinions. 

Not sure why you want to argue with me since what you and I are saying isn't very different...  ???

« Reply #390 on: October 25, 2010, 23:02 »
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No Lisa, I was not trying to argue with you. However, I was trying to point out to you, from a different perspective, that you don't have to believe Jonathan, but he is not under any obligation to offer names and further facts.

Lisa, Jonathan is not taking the oath under the Bible, isn't he?  If you don't believe what he says, that is perfectly fine. He is under no obligation to testify and backup his assertions because he was merely sharing what he believes, even if it was just heresays or fallacies. He is not in court.


Freedom, you seem to have misread my post.  I didn't say I don't believe Jonathan, nor that he didn't have a right to state his opinions.  I merely asked that he differentiate his opinions (or beliefs since you prefer that word) from concrete facts.  And I asked if he has concrete facts, that he elaborate them.  In fact, you quoted me and I said we are all entitled to our opinions. 

Not sure why you want to argue with me since what you and I are saying isn't very different...  ???

« Reply #391 on: October 25, 2010, 23:38 »
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 Thanks Lisa and Freedom,

 You have both been supportive and helpful over time. I totally understand what Lisa is saying so let's not have you two disagreeing. A big part of it is the written word and how it is interpreted. I prefer phone calls over e-mails any day.

God luck to you both,
Jonathan

« Reply #392 on: October 26, 2010, 03:20 »
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Looks to me like you're out-voted Jonathan. Take yet another 'Bull-Sh!t Badge' for your nonsensical and misleading posts. In truth you don't know too much about this game as proven by your sales record in micro. Judging by that you're the wrong side of 'Average' and certainly no expert as you like to pretend. Somehow though you are actually very good at persuading newbies that you are a guru and long may you continue to mine that vein if it provides you with some income or fluffs up your ego.


He's starting to sound a bit like Rinder but without the sales pitch.  Yet!!!

« Reply #393 on: October 26, 2010, 05:50 »
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Looks to me like you're out-voted Jonathan. Take yet another 'Bull-Sh!t Badge' for your nonsensical and misleading posts. In truth you don't know too much about this game as proven by your sales record in micro. Judging by that you're the wrong side of 'Average' and certainly no expert as you like to pretend. Somehow though you are actually very good at persuading newbies that you are a guru and long may you continue to mine that vein if it provides you with some income or fluffs up your ego.

Btw, taking an opposite point of view to you isn't 'aggressive' and it is actually allowed. It seems that you squeal "Unfair" every time that you lose an an argument. Heigh-ho.

Did I miss something? Was it a competition and you're the winner?
I'm sure that Jonathan doesn't need my support but I think that someone here should learn some very basic good manners when expressing his own point of view..... at least to let us not going through a bunch of 'aggressive' posts every time that one shares his opinions!

Cheers,
Diego

Fotonaut

« Reply #394 on: October 26, 2010, 07:00 »
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Did I miss something? Was it a competition and you're the winner?
I'm sure that Jonathan doesn't need my support but I think that someone here should learn some very basic good manners when expressing his own point of view..... at least to let us not going through a bunch of 'aggressive' posts every time that one shares his opinions!

Cheers,
Diego

Well put.

« Reply #395 on: October 26, 2010, 09:07 »
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I am a big boy- I can make my own decisions.Just state your opinions,observations and fact as you see them. Then I can make up my own mind.You don,t prove your point by running each other down.
Smiling Jack

« Reply #396 on: October 26, 2010, 19:00 »
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First we got microstock and now it seems the dawn of the micro-mouth is upon us.

To say that Mr. Ross' portfolio is the 'wrong side of average' is rather offensive and very untrue. I think his sales record in microstock is a reflection of how late-in-the-day he entered the microstock market rather than an indication of his abilities.

Mr. Ross has speculated that due to the increasing number of images being sold and the increasing number of people making those images that it is likely that more model releases are suspect these days than they used to be, and that this is evident in a tightening of MR standards (and in some cases, the option to purchase an additional guarantee) by some agencies. That all seems perfectly reasonable to me. So, why on earth does it warrant these personal attacks on someone's character? It's beyond me.

Personally, I look forward to the views and opinions of all the contributors to these forums and look forward to reading more.

« Reply #397 on: October 26, 2010, 19:06 »
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Hi All,

 I only try to offer advice and information and learn here as well, what good do I get out of writing here and trying to answer questions or share information? I am really only out to help others, if it doesn't help you maybe blow it off and move on as I am trying to do from this continuos circle of trying to prove myself.

Oh come on.  Are you serious?  You made a blanket statement about microstock contributors faking their releases.  You weren't helping anybody or offering helpful advice, and that is why you got called out.  If it is just an opinion, state it as such.  But you are insinuating you have inside information to back it up.  

You pull this nonsense too often.  You enter a thread, make a controversial statement, and then when asked to back it up you start playing the victim and claiming all you want to do is help us all.  Sorry but that doesn't fly with a lot of us.

« Reply #398 on: October 26, 2010, 19:23 »
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First we got microstock and now it seems the dawn of the micro-mouth is upon us.

To say that Mr. Ross' portfolio is the 'wrong side of average' is rather offensive and very untrue. I think his sales record in microstock is a reflection of how late-in-the-day he entered the microstock market rather than an indication of his abilities.

Mr. Ross has speculated that due to the increasing number of images being sold and the increasing number of people making those images that it is likely that more model releases are suspect these days than they used to be, and that this is evident in a tightening of MR standards (and in some cases, the option to purchase an additional guarantee) by some agencies. That all seems perfectly reasonable to me. So, why on earth does it warrant these personal attacks on someone's character? It's beyond me.

Personally, I look forward to the views and opinions of all the contributors to these forums and look forward to reading more.

Yeah, and with, more people in our forums is more probable that in some poster's city is raining rigth now. What a wate of time.

« Reply #399 on: October 27, 2010, 06:38 »
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'Mr. Ross has speculated that due to the increasing number of images being sold and the increasing number of people making those images that it is likely that more model releases are suspect these days than they used to be'

Nope, sorry.  It was a statement of fact, not 'One might think' or 'Maybe the reason could be...' etc.


 

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