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Author Topic: Buyers Bailing on Istock  (Read 387908 times)

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lisafx

« Reply #500 on: December 02, 2010, 19:38 »
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same for me, things are good in general...but I suspect that won't be cut and paste across the threads here

Well, to be fair, this thread is about buyer's experiences, so that's why they are getting cut and pasted here.  

But I am genuinely glad when I hear folks like you, JoAnn, and others are doing well.  I just wish the happiness over there was a bit more widespread.  Like it used to be.  I certainly don't wish ill on any exclusives.   Some of my best friends are exclusives :)
« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 19:46 by lisafx »


« Reply #501 on: December 03, 2010, 00:06 »
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Some of my best friends are exclusives :)

Just as some of my best friends are independents :)

Most of the really nasty stuff hasn't happened yet - January will bring the rest of that. I continue to think that those who are soothed by higher prices and Getty as an outlet for Agency/Vetta (at lower royalty percentages even than the reduced ones on IS) aren't thinking through the long term. They'll all end up on 20% - which might be good news for independents if everyone's on 20% by then.

I don't understand why the attitude towards buyers is so inattentive. They don't keep them informed up front and the closest thing to a helping hand is posting that they should Contact Support. I know when I'm not treated well by a business and I have a choice, I vote with my wallet and hope that in time they come to their senses. Doesn't work with banks and cell phone companies as they're all just about equally awful :) Even if a business screws up, if they are attentive, contrite and helpful in trying to put things right, I find that a huge positive (unless they keep on doing it). So if I were just an iStock customer, I might overlook how they're treating contributors, but not how they were treating me. I think there's a ton of room for improvement there.

« Reply #502 on: December 03, 2010, 04:47 »
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^^^That's why I believe istock will be sold off next year.  They aren't thinking of holding on to their customers for the long term.  They know most people will put up with things for a few months, hoping they will improve.  If they can sell the site by then, it becomes someone else's problem.

The only other explanation I can think of for treating their contributors and buyers so badly is that they have become arrogant, all the good people have left and they are now being run by people that don't understand the importance of good relationships with their suppliers and clients.  If that's true, it's going to be interesting to see how many people move to their rivals.  It does work for some businesses because they are all as bad as each other.  I don't think it will work with misrostock because a lot of people do this to supplement their income or just for fun.  They don't need to put up with it and there are still sites that pay a much higher commission and would be a good alternative for buyers.

lagereek

« Reply #503 on: December 03, 2010, 09:10 »
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Exactly!!!  January will come and sweet NOTHING will happen and frankly I do hope that nothing will come for the reason that this topic/subject is now getting boring and worn and torn.

Everyone is angry and frustrated, I can understand that but theres no need to add fuel to fire, wishing for damnation, destruction, etc, etc. For the most of us, IS is still the major source of Micro income and well?  just dont feel like putting crap on my own doorstep.
Besides this whole beef is with Getty not IS.

best. Christian

« Reply #504 on: December 03, 2010, 10:32 »
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Exactly!!!  January will come and sweet NOTHING will happen and frankly I do hope that nothing will come for the reason that this topic/subject is now getting boring and worn and torn.

Everyone is angry and frustrated, I can understand that but theres no need to add fuel to fire, wishing for damnation, destruction, etc, etc. For the most of us, IS is still the major source of Micro income and well?  just dont feel like putting crap on my own doorstep.
Besides this whole beef is with Getty not IS.

best. Christian

my beef is with iStock, not Getty.  things have already happened.   Exclusives have left, buyers have left.  there's a shift happening it's just difficult to see it right now while it's in progress.  I think the first quarter of next year will see a lot of changes in the microstock industry. 

SNP

  • Canadian Photographer
« Reply #505 on: December 03, 2010, 11:32 »
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how can you split Getty out from iStock? that's seems like a new one. iStock clearly state they're on board and more or less 100% behind Getty decisions. whether that is actually true, or whether iStock admin are held hostage by Getty mandates---same end result. good or bad depending on your perseptive. AFAIK it's somewhere in the middle. Getty have pushed iStock forward, in really positive ways. but there are definitely casualties.

lagereek

« Reply #506 on: December 03, 2010, 12:03 »
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OH! man!  this is so ridiculous! IS,  is owned by Getty and their investment bankers, they can do what . they want with IS and nobody can say a damned thing, they can close it down tomorrow, if they want.
Would you like to be out of a job???  well neither does the IS admin. Contrary its a blessing some of the old crew  still persever, hopefully gunning for us.

lagereek

« Reply #507 on: December 03, 2010, 12:09 »
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Exactly!!!  January will come and sweet NOTHING will happen and frankly I do hope that nothing will come for the reason that this topic/subject is now getting boring and worn and torn.

Everyone is angry and frustrated, I can understand that but theres no need to add fuel to fire, wishing for damnation, destruction, etc, etc. For the most of us, IS is still the major source of Micro income and well?  just dont feel like putting crap on my own doorstep.
Besides this whole beef is with Getty not IS.

best. Christian

my beef is with iStock, not Getty.  things have already happened.   Exclusives have left, buyers have left.  there's a shift happening it's just difficult to see it right now while it's in progress.  I think the first quarter of next year will see a lot of changes in the microstock industry. 

BS!!!  if its so difficult to see,  then how . do you see it??  second-sight or something?  nothing has happend, just minor stuff such as we are a bit short-changed, thats all and that independants are taking a knocking. This is nothing, goes with the territory. This is the business we have chosen, nobody has twisted our arms. Dont like it?  well then just get out of it, simple as that.

best.

« Reply #508 on: December 03, 2010, 12:23 »
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I dropped my crown last month.  My comments come from what I see and what I hear from other contributors at istock. I've been there for almost seven years and I've seen a lot of changes in those seven years.  There have always been things going on that people complain about.  In my opinion, this is the most dramatic change I've seen since I've been there.  Friends of mine who are exclusive at diamond level - top contributors and one that (until recently) was an inspector have expressed their concern.  They are being 'cautiously optimistic' at this point. 

that's what I "see" .. I guess it's more of a feeling based on my tenure at iStock. 

lagereek

« Reply #509 on: December 03, 2010, 12:30 »
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I dropped my crown last month.  My comments come from what I see and what I hear from other contributors at istock. I've been there for almost seven years and I've seen a lot of changes in those seven years.  There have always been things going on that people complain about.  In my opinion, this is the most dramatic change I've seen since I've been there.  Friends of mine who are exclusive at diamond level - top contributors and one that (until recently) was an inspector have expressed their concern.  They are being 'cautiously optimistic' at this point. 

that's what I "see" .. I guess it's more of a feeling based on my tenure at iStock. 

Fair enough but Ive been with Getty-RM, since 1993, prior with Image-Bank and Stones-Worldwide, since 1986 and now lately Im an IS-Diamond, independant. So yes Ive seen an incredible amount nof changes but I hate to say nit but changes goes with the business.
I personally know several Diamonds, exclusives, etc, some are a bit dissapointed, some couldnt care and some are doing business as usual. Me? well, in spite of all this terror and horror that you proclaim is goiung to hit us, Im doing pretty well actually.

« Reply #510 on: December 03, 2010, 13:22 »
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glad you're doing well and thanks for sharing your perspective.

And for the record, if you re-read my post, I didn't proclaim any terror and horror.  I only said there are changes happening.  :) 

lisafx

« Reply #511 on: December 03, 2010, 13:58 »
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Jami, I agree with you, FWIW.  The changes happening at Istock are going to reap long term consequences.  Some of them are evident in the increased buyer complaints, and the vastly increased number of contributor gripes.  But that growing unhappiness among the IS members (of both types) has the potential to slowly erode its #1 status among the micros.  

It's not going to happen overnight, and thank goodness for that.  Although Istock has dropped from 40% to 34% of my income over the course of the last couple of months (a drop unprecedented in 6 years), they are still my primary income source.  I am not rooting for them to fail.  Let me repeat that, because it doesn't seem to have been clear - I am not rooting for Istock to fail!  

If they straighten out the site problems, and manage to retain their buyers; if sales pick back up and the site is succeeding; I will be pleased as punch.  And financially well off too.  So I'm rooting for them, but like any friend, I am going to tell them when there's spinach in their teeth.  

SNP

  • Canadian Photographer
« Reply #512 on: December 03, 2010, 14:07 »
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Lisa - I believe you're not rooting for iStock to fail. but I think you're a minority. I think a lot of contributors would like to see iStock fail out of spite, as well as seeing iStock exclusives fail in order to say I Told You So, or to feed some other insecurity-motivated complex. The reality is, if we magnify it to the worst case scenario and iStock fails tomorrow. then what? the next agencies follow suit, because another Agency will then be the iStock-villain and become the new agency to hate. iStock's failure would actually be a very dangerous signal to the remainder of the industry.

I think lagereek says it best when he says that the doom and gloom terror-speak is largely not commented on by many higher-level contributors because they simply know it's the nature of the business and they're disinterested and too busy producing and managing their business to comment.

I think iStock is handling buyers's concerns. of course they are, but certainly not in public forums. to be honest, I think the last few outcry campaigns have really handicapped us as contributors. the same contributors cried wolf and now the voice of the community is somewhat muted. that's not cheerleading, that's common sense.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2010, 14:14 by SNP »

molka

    This user is banned.
« Reply #513 on: December 03, 2010, 14:19 »
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there will always be argumentless people  who's last refuge is saying others have complexes : ) what happens if istock falls? nothin'. after a while, other places get somewhat more dl's. the content is so generic it makes no differene whatsoever.

« Reply #514 on: December 03, 2010, 14:29 »
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Lisa, I am sure you are not rooting for ISTOCK to fall. However, is it possible that your decreased sales are due to your "Buyers Bailing on Istock"?

My memory could have failed me, did you asked all designers you know and your friends know to buy your images from other sites, and not from ISTOCK in this thread?   

« Reply #515 on: December 03, 2010, 14:35 »
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Lisa, I am sure you are not rooting for ISTOCK to fall. However, is it possible that your decreased sales are due to your "Buyers Bailing on Istock"?

My memory could have failed me, did you asked all designers you know and your friends know to buy your images from other sites, and not from ISTOCK in this thread?  

And she also said she was stopping uploading, so maybe she's selling this bit less because of that.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2010, 14:45 by loop »

« Reply #516 on: December 03, 2010, 14:44 »
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Well, I doubt IS is going to fail, and certainly not right away, but I sure hope they fail to meet their unsustainable goals by shafting contributors and I think most non-exclusives would love to see the buyers go somewhere that they get a higher percentage. I'd much rather get $7.50  from a $15 sale than $3.50 from a $20 sale at IS. It would be even nicer if IS and Getty came up with a model where the photographers got more than 20% and they continued to push prices gradually upwards and all thrived. It just doesn't appear that they have any interest in that and unless something changes (like a sale of the company), I don't think they ever will.

lisafx

« Reply #517 on: December 03, 2010, 15:08 »
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Lisa, I am sure you are not rooting for ISTOCK to fall. However, is it possible that your decreased sales are due to your "Buyers Bailing on Istock"?

My memory could have failed me, did you asked all designers you know and your friends know to buy your images from other sites, and not from ISTOCK in this thread?   

That is an excellent point.  It is quite possible that may have had an effect,  but I sort of doubt my influence is as far-reaching as I would like :)

However, reading the monthly threads on Istock the last couple of months, it seems quite a few have seen download numbers drop, not just me.  The difference is that, for exclusives, the drops in downloads have been compensated by higher prices, Vetta, Agency, etc.  For independents the lower download numbers are accompanied by equally lowered royalties. 

Feel free to use me as an example if it's helpful, but from the anecdotal evidence in the monthly stats threads, my experience is by no means unique. 

« Reply #518 on: December 03, 2010, 15:46 »
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Jami, I agree with you, FWIW.  The changes happening at Istock are going to reap long term consequences.  Some of them are evident in the increased buyer complaints, and the vastly increased number of contributor gripes.  But that growing unhappiness among the IS members (of both types) has the potential to slowly erode its #1 status among the micros.  

It's not going to happen overnight, and thank goodness for that.  Although Istock has dropped from 40% to 34% of my income over the course of the last couple of months (a drop unprecedented in 6 years), they are still my primary income source.  I am not rooting for them to fail.  Let me repeat that, because it doesn't seem to have been clear - I am not rooting for Istock to fail!  

If they straighten out the site problems, and manage to retain their buyers; if sales pick back up and the site is succeeding; I will be pleased as punch.  And financially well off too.  So I'm rooting for them, but like any friend, I am going to tell them when there's spinach in their teeth.  

I totally agree.  I am also NOT rooting for iStock to fail at all.  And no, I don't even think that for spite.  I'm sad and disappointed for my personal perspective but it's not my nature to wish ill-will.  I've made changes to my personal photography business based on my personal position at iStock with regard to the changes.  I have not stopped uploading there nor do I plan to.  I have an established portfolio there and very much want for it to continue to succeed.  In the meantime I'm also branching out now to other avenues for my work.  I want buyers to find my work where they feel most comfortable shopping. 

I also believe that there is a lot of strong feelings on both sides here and emotions are still very high and will probably continue to be until the new policies take effect at iStock and contributors/buyers see how it will effect them personally. 

« Reply #519 on: December 03, 2010, 15:49 »
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Lisa - I believe you're not rooting for iStock to fail. but I think you're a minority. I think a lot of contributors would like to see iStock fail out of spite, as well as seeing iStock exclusives fail in order to say I Told You So, or to feed some other insecurity-motivated complex.
Definitely not out of spite for IS or exclusives. Like most of us, I just want to get the most for my hard work. With upload restrictions, harder reviews and lower royalties, I'm not sure the place to get the most out of my work is IS. I don't think it is DT, FT or SS either, so it isn't all picking on IS. IS is just the poster child now for poor industry practices. I'm not sure if others feel that way, but that's my perspective.

« Reply #520 on: December 03, 2010, 16:19 »
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Lisa - I believe you're not rooting for iStock to fail. but I think you're a minority. I think a lot of contributors would like to see iStock fail out of spite, as well as seeing iStock exclusives fail in order to say I Told You So, or to feed some other insecurity-motivated complex.
Definitely not out of spite for IS or exclusives. Like most of us, I just want to get the most for my hard work. With upload restrictions, harder reviews and lower royalties, I'm not sure the place to get the most out of my work is IS. I don't think it is DT, FT or SS either, so it isn't all picking on IS. IS is just the poster child now for poor industry practices. I'm not sure if others feel that way, but that's my perspective.

What I would really like IS to do is to get their act together and get a decent website working so buyers can easily find images and buy. I would really like to see my commissions rising proportionately with the increase in cost of images. I would really like to see independents treated as respectfully as the exclusives are. After all, Getty/IS DOES make money off of independent's files too. But I don't see any of that happening...in fact, I see the opposite happening. For months now!

I don't really care one way or another whether Getty/IS succeeds or fails. It has been made clear to me that my files are no longer of value and that I deserve a cut in pay, in fact. When that happens, I look elsewhere to make up the loss and that's exactly what I and many others are doing.

P.S. Yes lisafx did start the thread. She isn't making the stuff up, she is just reporting it. So don't shoot the messenger. If you believe in Getty/IS and you want to back them, no matter what they throw at you, that's your decision. But you shouldn't fault others for taking a different stand. This is America, remember? We get to choose what we do with our own lives. Nobody gets to bully us into doing anything. And when I say you, I am not speaking to anyone in particular. If the shoe fits...
« Last Edit: December 03, 2010, 16:26 by cclapper »

lagereek

« Reply #521 on: December 03, 2010, 17:28 »
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Lisa - I believe you're not rooting for iStock to fail. but I think you're a minority. I think a lot of contributors would like to see iStock fail out of spite, as well as seeing iStock exclusives fail in order to say I Told You So, or to feed some other insecurity-motivated complex. The reality is, if we magnify it to the worst case scenario and iStock fails tomorrow. then what? the next agencies follow suit, because another Agency will then be the iStock-villain and become the new agency to hate. iStock's failure would actually be a very dangerous signal to the remainder of the industry.

I think lagereek says it best when he says that the doom and gloom terror-speak is largely not commented on by many higher-level contributors because they simply know it's the nature of the business and they're disinterested and too busy producing and managing their business to comment.

I think iStock is handling buyers's concerns. of course they are, but certainly not in public forums. to be honest, I think the last few outcry campaigns have really handicapped us as contributors. the same contributors cried wolf and now the voice of the community is somewhat muted. that's not cheerleading, that's common sense.

Quite right!  theres been takeovers, piracy, cheatings, god knows for the past 30 years in the stock-business and this is by far the least serious of them all. Like Lisa says, ofcourse theres gonna be repercussions and they will last for about six months and then all forgotten.
As long as an agency will exist: thats good news but when its killed off on purpose like SX, thats bad news, and for most of us.

« Reply #522 on: December 03, 2010, 18:51 »
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Like Lisa says, ofcourse theres gonna be repercussions and they will last for about six months and then all forgotten.
As long as an agency will exist: thats good news but when its killed off on purpose like SX, thats bad news, and for most of us.

I guess? I have no plans to upload anymore there, so I have to assume that has at least some lasting effect. Someone can always replace me, but I'm not the only person not uploading. How many new contributors does it take to replace one productive veteran contributor? How many will need to be replaced? Will their files go elsewhere? How many files will get deleted? How many exclusives will leave? I highly doubt IS will close or be killed off by this, but it would be nice for them and every other agency to get a little bit of a wake up call. You know that theory that businesses are built by people and not just a bunch of numbers and percentage points.

jbarber873

« Reply #523 on: December 03, 2010, 19:15 »
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Lisa - I believe you're not rooting for iStock to fail. but I think you're a minority. I think a lot of contributors would like to see iStock fail out of spite, as well as seeing iStock exclusives fail in order to say I Told You So, or to feed some other insecurity-motivated complex.
Definitely not out of spite for IS or exclusives. Like most of us, I just want to get the most for my hard work. With upload restrictions, harder reviews and lower royalties, I'm not sure the place to get the most out of my work is IS. I don't think it is DT, FT or SS either, so it isn't all picking on IS. IS is just the poster child now for poor industry practices. I'm not sure if others feel that way, but that's my perspective.

What I would really like IS to do is to get their act together and get a decent website working so buyers can easily find images and buy. I would really like to see my commissions rising proportionately with the increase in cost of images. I would really like to see independents treated as respectfully as the exclusives are. After all, Getty/IS DOES make money off of independent's files too. But I don't see any of that happening...in fact, I see the opposite happening. For months now!

I don't really care one way or another whether Getty/IS succeeds or fails. It has been made clear to me that my files are no longer of value and that I deserve a cut in pay, in fact. When that happens, I look elsewhere to make up the loss and that's exactly what I and many others are doing.

P.S. Yes lisafx did start the thread. She isn't making the stuff up, she is just reporting it. So don't shoot the messenger. If you believe in Getty/IS and you want to back them, no matter what they throw at you, that's your decision. But you shouldn't fault others for taking a different stand. This is America, remember? We get to choose what we do with our own lives. Nobody gets to bully us into doing anything. And when I say you, I am not speaking to anyone in particular. If the shoe fits...

   Proving once again that Cathy has the best take on the whole thing. I totally agree. I don't care in the least who sends me the check, I just want to know how much it's for...

lisafx

« Reply #524 on: December 03, 2010, 19:48 »
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What I would really like IS to do is to get their act together and get a decent website working so buyers can easily find images and buy. I would really like to see my commissions rising proportionately with the increase in cost of images. I would really like to see independents treated as respectfully as the exclusives are.

^^ Well said, Cathy.  This sums up my feelings too.  I would even be willing to cut them some slack on the treating independents as well as exclusives thing.  I'd be satisfied if they just treated independents as well as we are treated on the other Big 4 sites. 

I am probably wildly naive, but I keep hoping that Getty - or perhaps some new owners in the near future - will return the site to what it was just a year ago, when everyone was doing pretty well there, and the only gripes most of us had were small ones.  Probably that isn't realistic, but still would be nice.


 

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