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Agency Based Discussion => iStockPhoto.com => Topic started by: BaldricksTrousers on November 29, 2011, 06:34

Title: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on November 29, 2011, 06:34
Some people say there was a mass boycott of Thinkstock and the Partner Programme. Others say only a small proportion boycotted it. It would be nice to have an idea of how widespread the boycott was or wasn't and an anonymous poll might give an indication of that, if enough people vote.

Thanks for taking part.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: hiddenstock on November 29, 2011, 07:29
I'm exclusive and I have put some fines over there.  It is not really working for me and has gone down in the last month which I would imagine is because they have forced the indies to go over to it.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: Gannet77 on November 29, 2011, 07:43
Well, I'm Exclusive too, and as I posted on the iStock forum, I get about 3x the number of DLs on regular IS sales as I get from the PP - and about 20x the royalties.

But then I only have about 30% of my portfolio on the PP, and that's only the ones that sell poorly on IS, so perhaps it's to be expected.  Only one of my PP files sells well (and it barely sold at all in the regular collection).

So, I didn't really boycott it, but I don't put much in either.  It's hardly a success for me but it gets a few dollars from some files which haven't sold on regular iStock and that was really all I ever expected.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: helix7 on November 29, 2011, 08:20

I boycotted it until I didn't have a choice anymore.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: Cogent Marketing on November 29, 2011, 08:25
Same as Helix, I never had a choice. I hope you get enough exclusives coming through to participate to give the numbers meaning.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: sharpshot on November 29, 2011, 08:48
I also boycotted until I was forced in but the way istock are going, that might not be for long.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: briciola on November 29, 2011, 08:51
I also boycotted until I was forced in but the way istock are going, that might not be for long.
+1
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: Cogent Marketing on November 29, 2011, 08:54
Explain the answer option of Not Sure (for both Indie and Excl).

Is it not as simple as Yes and NO, I'm struggling to see how anyone can be Not Sure of boycotting the policy, or do you mean Don't Care (DGAD) folks?
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on November 29, 2011, 09:32
It's for people who haven't been paying attention, just letting life roll by (in which case, I believe, iStock will opt them in).
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on November 29, 2011, 09:38
Obviously, I know all the Indies are now getting steamrollered into it like it or not (or out of "the family") so the question is about where you stood when the choice existed.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: lagereek on November 29, 2011, 09:50
Same as Helix, I never had a choice. I hope you get enough exclusives coming through to participate to give the numbers meaning.

Same here!
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: microstockphoto.co.uk on November 29, 2011, 09:56
No. I am much more in favour of supporting fair small/new sites (by uploading port and telling people) than boycotting big ones. In other words, grab what we can in current status while actively helping to build the next, better one.

Boycotting means leaving our marketshare to the big contributors which don't boycott - understandably so, because they would lose thousands of dollars each month.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: cthoman on November 29, 2011, 09:59

I boycotted it until I didn't have a choice anymore.

There's always a choice.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: Cogent Marketing on November 29, 2011, 10:25

I boycotted it until I didn't have a choice anymore.

There's always a choice.
As an independent the only choice was to remove your entire portfolio and leave iStockphoto or agree to the PP. If that's a choice, it's a pretty mean-spirited one.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: RapidEye on November 29, 2011, 10:33
I boycotted it until a few months ago because I believed it would damage iStock itself to have its exclusive files mirrored on a subscription site, as discussed ad nauseam in iStock's own forums back at the beginning. But then I realised that, with the Daleks in charge, resistance was futile.

My PP earnings have been disappointing to say the least -- a whole month's worth is about the same as half a day on iStock. Granted, I held back a few of my top sellers, and as an exclusive I'm restricted to files older than 18 months, but somehow I don't think that's distorted the picture too much.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on November 29, 2011, 10:43

I boycotted it until I didn't have a choice anymore.

There's always a choice.

I have viewed the Partner Program as a very, very bad idea for contributors from day 1 (I was exclusive then). I didn't think it improved much with the small increases in royalty payments made on KKT's watch when they tried to increase the content available.

As far as having a choice, if iStock continues its earnings free-fall, it'll be possible to leave the site completely, but as it stands it was too big a chunk to just delete my portfolio on September 28th. Our "choice" was the same as Getty contributors' "choice" with their new contract in the Spring - only a choice in the narrowest possible meaning of that word. What I did do was withhold new content from iStock for 6 months minimum so it gets a chance to sell everywhere else before Thinkstock/photos.com get it. As none of the forced-participation independent content from iStock has made it to the PP yet, I wish they'd just get on with it or call the deal off. But I'm assuming it's yet another thing in the long list of broken features at iStock.

I don't think the partner program is inevitably a bad thing. If iStock and Getty had been less transparently greedy I think they might have structured something that worked well for both contributors and them. However, they've let their own dollar bin and subscription programs languish while TS/photos.com strumble along in SS's dust. Truly the worst of all worlds at the moment.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: ShadySue on November 29, 2011, 10:55

I boycotted it until I didn't have a choice anymore.

There's always a choice.
Not all choices are sensible or expedient.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: pancaketom on November 29, 2011, 11:03
Only a small fraction of my content will be forced into PP if/when they ever get around to it. I never volunteered anything for it. I don't really see that option on the poll.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: Artemis on November 29, 2011, 11:08
I ticked 'i boycot'; like many i'd never ever have opted in; now that we're forced i deleted every file that was worth something to me and doesnt belong on a flea market... so i'm still sort of boycotting, but not entirely because i bent and still have some files there... they dont get any new stuff though, i stopped uploading completely.
(wished that darn b*stards would have told the migration would take forever, i could have waited with disabling...but i assumed the migration would have started immediately after the deadline of sept.. >:()
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: WarrenPrice on November 29, 2011, 11:22
Is there an answer for those who came across from StockExpert?
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: cthoman on November 29, 2011, 11:36
As an independent the only choice was to remove your entire portfolio and leave iStockphoto or agree to the PP. If that's a choice, it's a pretty mean-spirited one.

It is a choice though. Like it or not, you agreed to the Partner Program if you stayed.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: rubyroo on November 29, 2011, 11:46
http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/hobson%27s+choice.html (http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/hobson%27s+choice.html)
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: lagereek on November 29, 2011, 11:55

I boycotted it until I didn't have a choice anymore.

There's always a choice.
As an independent the only choice was to remove your entire portfolio and leave iStockphoto or agree to the PP. If that's a choice, it's a pretty mean-spirited one.

Why? do they keep investing so much time, effort and money on advertising this TS?  hell, nobody is making anything over there, I havent heard of anybody happy with their earnings. Is it meant to be some Messiah micro site, which will open everybodys eyes, to see the light perhaps? beats me completely. :-\
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: cthoman on November 29, 2011, 12:02
[url]http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/hobson%27s+choice.html[/url] ([url]http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/hobson%27s+choice.html[/url])


Wait? We weren't supposed to choose the alternative in their ultimatum? Nobody told me that. ;D
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: sam100 on November 29, 2011, 12:03
I voted yes... deleted my entire portfolio over there.

Patrick H.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: rubyroo on November 29, 2011, 12:08
[url]http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/hobson%27s+choice.html[/url] ([url]http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/hobson%27s+choice.html[/url])


Wait? We weren't supposed to choose the alternative in their ultimatum? Nobody told me that. ;D


 :D :D :D

I just meant that that's how it would have felt for some people.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: traveler1116 on November 29, 2011, 12:13
Check on thinkstock, there appear to be thousands of editorial images from iStock there and they all say "no release required" and are not listed as editorial. 
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: RacePhoto on November 29, 2011, 12:31
Only way for me to boycott, beyond closing the IS account was close the StockXpert account. As an IND we have no choice. Either lose the sales and IS account or have things available on ThinkStock.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: jamirae on November 29, 2011, 12:37
I didn't respond to the poll because I'm not sure which option to pick.. but for what it's worth:

when I was exclusive (prior to last November), I did not participate in the Partner Program (PP)- when I went Indpendent I still did not opt in to it.  Now that they are forcing us into it, I have no choice, as others have stated, unless I pull my whole portfolio from IS.  I do not plan to do that at this time.  So I'm currently in a "wait and see how it pans out" mode with regard to the sThinkStock PP.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on November 29, 2011, 13:44
hell, nobody is making anything over there, I havent heard of anybody happy with their earnings.

Except me
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on November 29, 2011, 13:46
I didn't respond to the poll because I'm not sure which option to pick.. but for what it's worth:

when I was exclusive (prior to last November), I did not participate in the Partner Program (PP)- when I went Indpendent I still did not opt in to it.  Now that they are forcing us into it, I have no choice, as others have stated, unless I pull my whole portfolio from IS.  I do not plan to do that at this time.  So I'm currently in a "wait and see how it pans out" mode with regard to the sThinkStock PP.

You should be down for boycotting, exc or ind is your choice
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: gostwyck on November 29, 2011, 13:59
hell, nobody is making anything over there, I havent heard of anybody happy with their earnings.

Except me

True. Why is it that everyone except you reports pathetic earnings from the PP ... and always has? The traffic stat's alone indicate that TS has barely more than 1/50th of SS's unique visitors. Maybe you are the 'Yuri' of the PP.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on November 29, 2011, 14:04
I wouldn't want to encourage him to come back here and proselytize, but the Shankster is always saying he has good PP results...so that's at least two.

I do think that for some IS exclusives who've never really seen the subscription model in full flower (as it were) the download numbers are seductive. As is the thought that they could have SS plus IS exclusivity at the same time (where the hope would be that the PP takes SS's place over time, which I don't expect would happen for reasons I've already elaborated elsewhere)
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: gostwyck on November 29, 2011, 14:14
I wouldn't want to encourage him to come back here and proselytize, but the Shankster is always saying he has good PP results...

Yes I know __ but you don't actually believe the figures he spouts do you? One moment he's made enough for fish and chips for his dinner, the next he's flicking through a Ferrari brochure. Shanks doesn't do 'serious' or 'facts'. I thought that was understood.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on November 29, 2011, 14:24
hell, nobody is making anything over there, I havent heard of anybody happy with their earnings.

Except me

True. Why is it that everyone except you reports pathetic earnings from the PP ... and always has?


I honestly don't know. This month, of course, no discussion was allowed because a PP thread was not opened by a moderator, last month there was a short thread with three or four people saying they did well, so it's not just me. Maybe people are intimidated by all the propaganda against PP and just keep quiet, maybe they don't want all the people outside getting a slice of the cake (in the days when there was a choice).

However, you should know me well enough to know that I'm telling it the way it is as far as I am concerned.

Maybe iSTock have me on a special list feeding me dls so that I can proselytise for their PP prog. There's a good conspiracy theory to run with.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: gostwyck on November 29, 2011, 14:33
However, you should know me well enough to know that I'm telling it the way it is as far as I am concerned.

Oh yes, I don't doubt what you're saying, but if your numbers were 'normal' then the PP would be an astonishing success. When I visit the PP sites I can find almost no reason why anybody would buy there in preference to any of the 'Big 4'.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: luissantos84 on November 29, 2011, 14:35
exclusives can opt in/out regarding thinkstock no? all ind donīt have other choice right?

so confusing really, people here are talking this and that but they have files on IS (so there too) thats why I pop the question

from my very small numbers PP means 650$ from 1800$ (total)

(I donīt believe I would be better without PP, I wouldnīt have IS as my 2th best earner)

not saying PP is a cool thing, thats just my stats
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on November 29, 2011, 14:39
The question is about the past, Luis, when we all had a choice.

It looks as if the percentage of earnings you get from PP is about the same as mine.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: LesHoward on November 29, 2011, 14:42
I'm independent and boycotted the PP until I was forced into it. Since then I have not seen even a penny of earnings from the PP.

Here's an interesting scenario I've never seen discussed either here or on the iStock forums. Photos shot at an iStock minilypse can only be uploaded to iStock. That's part of the photographer's agreement going into the minilypse. Also, the model releases for the minilypse can't be used anywhere else. Therefore, unfortunately, minilypse photos must stay on iStock if I ever hope to recover some of the cost of making them. It would be very easy for me to walk away from iStock if most of my best sellers weren't taken at minilypses.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: luissantos84 on November 29, 2011, 14:48
Ah ok.. I never boycotted it
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: cthoman on November 29, 2011, 15:11
I voted yes... deleted my entire portfolio over there.

Ditto
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: lisafx on November 29, 2011, 16:25
...with the Daleks in charge, resistance was futile.


;D
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: lisafx on November 29, 2011, 16:39
I put that I boycotted it.  However, shortly before it was announced that we would all be forced into the partner program, I discovered my stuff had all been moved over to TS.  

I don't know why it was there.  There was a period of time when the checkmark for PP was checked on everybody by default.  Whenever that stopped, I don't know, but I guess I didn't get it unchecked in time.  I didn't even realize it was something I had to worry about because I had always been opted out, as far as I knew, and at the time my stuff was moved over, I thought the connector was broken anyway.  

Considering that shortly after this discovery it was announced we would all be moving over to TS, I didn't see any point in getting my stuff removed.  

I can back up what Balderick is saying.  I am making about 1/3 in the PP of what I make at IS.  Downloads are roughly equal.  I expect when everyone else is moved over that amount will go down though.  
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: jamirae on November 29, 2011, 16:54
I'm independent and boycotted the PP until I was forced into it. Since then I have not seen even a penny of earnings from the PP.

Here's an interesting scenario I've never seen discussed either here or on the iStock forums. Photos shot at an iStock minilypse can only be uploaded to iStock. That's part of the photographer's agreement going into the minilypse. Also, the model releases for the minilypse can't be used anywhere else. Therefore, unfortunately, minilypse photos must stay on iStock if I ever hope to recover some of the cost of making them. It would be very easy for me to walk away from iStock if most of my best sellers weren't taken at minilypses.

I thought about this, too, when I was contemplating dropping the crown last year as I have been to a lot of minilypses  (and even hosted one) and have some best sellers from those.  What I ended up doing when I went independent last November was to opt all my minilypse images into the photo+ program since I knew they had to stay exclusive to iStock and wanted to get the most money from them that I could.  I started with my best sellers until I used up all my slots.  then, having learned a lot from my attendance at minilypses, I took that knowledge and expanded on it to create new images that sell well and have been uploading those to the other sites as well as istock.

to reiterate (because I'm guessing someone might read this wrongly) I have not duplicated/copied my images from minilypses, I have just been more thoughtful in setting up shoots that are more stock-like when I schedule work with models.  I get a specific theme and location set up and get models and wardrobe to go with it.  I also work with a fellow photographer and together we have our own little "microlypse" type shoot.  It has worked very well for me. 
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: RapidEye on November 29, 2011, 16:57
I can back up what Baldrick is saying.  I am making about 1/3 in the PP of what I make at IS.  Downloads are roughly equal.  I expect when everyone else is moved over that amount will go down though.  

Holy goat's droppings, what's wrong with me then? Incredible. In October, the PP made me 1.5% of what I made on IS. PP downloads were 23% of those on IS.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: lisafx on November 29, 2011, 17:01
I can back up what Balderick is saying.  I am making about 1/3 in the PP of what I make at IS.  Downloads are roughly equal.  I expect when everyone else is moved over that amount will go down though.  

Holy goat's droppings, what's wrong with me then? Incredible. In October, the PP made me 1.5% of what I made on IS. PP downloads were 23% of those on IS.

Most likely it was because ALL my images were shuttled over, not a select few.  Also, I have only been there a couple of months.  Maybe there was a "fresh meat" factor.  Sales in October were slightly down from September.  

Also consider that since I am non-exclusive, what I make on IS is probably a LOT less than what you make.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: jamirae on November 29, 2011, 17:04
the last time I looked at thinkstock none of my images where there.  I just checked this morning and 3 random images of mine were there, one from my most recent uploads the other two from years ago.  Then I just now looked again and one more image is there.  

Are they starting to move the stuff over there?   I don't understand how the PP works but now I guess I need to since my forced inclusion in the program appears to be underway.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on November 29, 2011, 17:09
I'm independent and boycotted the PP until I was forced into it. Since then I have not seen even a penny of earnings from the PP.

Had any of your files actually been moved before the end of October? Even before the latest mess they said it would take until the end of the year to move everything across.

So far, the payments have been made for the month of October but nothing has been paid for November and won't be until sometime towards the middle/end of next month.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on November 29, 2011, 17:11
I can back up what Balderick is saying.  I am making about 1/3 in the PP of what I make at IS.  Downloads are roughly equal.  I expect when everyone else is moved over that amount will go down though.  

Holy goat's droppings, what's wrong with me then? Incredible. In October, the PP made me 1.5% of what I made on IS. PP downloads were 23% of those on IS.

Nothing of yours newer than 18 months will be there. It might work against you in the search (but I don't know)
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: RapidEye on November 29, 2011, 17:14
Lisa and Baldrick, good points both. I'll stop spluttering now.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: Karimala on November 29, 2011, 17:32
I didn't boycott, because I can't afford to shoot myself in the foot while watching regular revenue continue to dwindle.  However, I did start removing my images from IS and StockXpert as a compromise and continue to do so as revenue increases at other outlets.  I'm not putting up with Getty's BS anymore.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: disorderly on November 29, 2011, 18:16
I didn't bother fighting Thinkstock.  I already had a few thousand images in there from StockXpert, which bring in a munificent $6-8 every month, plus a handful of slow and non-sellers from iStock that I opted in.  I'm continuing to delete images from both iStock and StockXpert a few a day.  I'm down to 1300 images on iStock from a high of 3000.  I figure I may as well take whatever pennies I can get on my way out the door.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: ShadySue on November 29, 2011, 18:19
At the beginning, I was naive enough to believe them when they said they were targetting a new market, so I opted in some old, low-sellers, and some 'seconds' from then-current shoots.
When they mailed out to existing big buyers trying to transfer them to TS, I rapidly opted out again.
I voted yes, but I guess it should maybe be 'not sure', as I guess my files were there for about a month.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: FD on November 29, 2011, 18:56
Yes/ind. As long as TS was optional, I just enjoyed the 50$ or so monthly from IS being opted out of all PP. I stopped uploading for over a year ago (primarily because of the excess paperwork of a release for every shoot). The moment IS forced my content into their garbage bin, I had to do what a nun has to do: deactivate my entire IS port, just as I had to do with Stockexpert. Purely business and I have all possible sympathy for folks with 3-500$+ that have to stay.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: fritz on November 29, 2011, 20:43
Like Lisa said I am making about 1/3 in the PP of what I make at IS too getting better and better and it's more than 50$.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: pancaketom on November 29, 2011, 23:06
perhaps the IS sales are mostly migrating to TS - keeping it in the Getty family so to speak. If they really do port all the independent content there but not most of the exclusive that means high $ IS exclusive sales are being turned into low $ indy PP sales. YAY.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: helix7 on November 30, 2011, 00:05

I boycotted it until I didn't have a choice anymore.

There's always a choice.

There's always another option, but when you make your living in this business it's not so much of a choice sometimes. istock is on the decline, for sure, but at present they're still one of the microstock sites that you just have to be on to maximize earnings. For us vector folks, they're now finally introducing EPS10 files into the mix, which I have a pile of to submit once the doors are open. So the option to delete my portfolio and leave istock isn't a good one at the moment.

My istock earnings are a small fraction of what they used to be, but as long as they keep feeding and diapering my kid, I'm sticking around.

The only way it becomes a viable option for me to leave istock is if I ever get the sense that ThinkStock is actually cutting into my Shutterstock earnings. I don't see that happening, but if somehow it ever does, that's when it becomes a good business move for me to drop istock.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: lagereek on November 30, 2011, 01:52
I wouldn't want to encourage him to come back here and proselytize, but the Shankster is always saying he has good PP results...

Yes I know __ but you don't actually believe the figures he spouts do you? One moment he's made enough for fish and chips for his dinner, the next he's flicking through a Ferrari brochure. Shanks doesn't do 'serious' or 'facts'. I thought that was understood.

Ferrari brouchure?  Im sitting here in my 2009 Range-Rover and I expected IS, to pay for the fuel or at least the freaking oil but no sir, no a pot to piss in. Its all piss poor performance.
Maybe we should join up with TS ?  heard they pay for travels, etc.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: Michael Lancaster on November 30, 2011, 02:56
Im sitting here in my 2009 Range-Rover and I expected IS, to pay for the fuel or at least the freaking oil but no sir, no a pot to piss in. Its all piss poor performance.
Maybe we should join up with TS ?  heard they pay for travels, etc.

Maybe they want us to start using the bicycle instead.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on November 30, 2011, 03:18
However, you should know me well enough to know that I'm telling it the way it is as far as I am concerned.

Oh yes, I don't doubt what you're saying, but if your numbers were 'normal' then the PP would be an astonishing success. When I visit the PP sites I can find almost no reason why anybody would buy there in preference to any of the 'Big 4'.

So now, after 28 indie "No" votes, we have Lisa, Luis and Alex with similar results to mine (though mine still seem a bit ahead of the others. Disorderly is the only indie saying the opposite but he deliberately only put a little cr*p there from iStock and his StockXpert files are old and may not be iStock quality.

It's obvious that my results are, at the very least, representative of a significant minority (one in seven) and could even be not very far from the norm.

I remember several people saying they would only put non-selling rubbish into PP, it's possible that some of those reporting cr*p sales had already biased the outcome. It also rather seems that nobody wanted to admit to doing well until someone else's head was above that particular parapet.

Rapideye's result is especially interesting, since if anyone can sell it should be him. Even there, sales of 1 on pp to 4 on iS are still significant, though clearly not impressive. It would be interesting to hear from other exlusives (and indies) to see if this is a divide consistently favouring independents.

Even with Rapideye's dl ratio, let alone with the other four, that website traffic figure seems to make no sense at all. Maybe we should all be less impressed with traffic statistics.

As for your comment about there being no reason for buyers to go there instead of to the other big sites, it's probably worth turning the question upside down: Once Getty gets them onto that site, by direct recruiting or diverting buyers from iS, is there any reason for them to leave and go elsewhere, or will they feel that good enough will do and stick with what they know? There's a tremendous amount of inertia in business.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: lagereek on November 30, 2011, 03:40
Some of us had no choice, really and I was one of them. I thought November was the date for the move into TS, but so far I cant see any of my shots over there. Maybe they forgot? one can always prey.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on November 30, 2011, 04:18
Some of us had no choice, really and I was one of them. I thought November was the date for the move into TS, but so far I cant see any of my shots over there. Maybe they forgot? one can always prey.

Yes, but the survey is about when you did have a choice. So you should be down as "Yes" to the boycott.

As for the move, I'll give you two possible explanations, you can tell me which is most likely:

1) They simply forgot that they want to force you to do their will or decided not to be dictaorial towards you
2) Their computer systems are totally screwed and out of control so they are a bit stuck at the moment.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: briciola on November 30, 2011, 05:14
FWIW - I went back and checked last month's numbers - I sold 3 times as many files on the PP as I did on IS, but IS still made nearly 5 times the revenue that PP did.  (caveat - bronze, low volumes)
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on November 30, 2011, 05:23
FWIW - I went back and checked last month's numbers - I sold 3 times as many files on the PP as I did on IS, but IS still made nearly 5 times the revenue that PP did.  (caveat - bronze, low volumes)

Are you exclusive or independent? And do you have video income included in iStock? As an independent, you would have to be averaging $4.50 to get five times the income from one third the sales and it's hard to see how anyone would do that just off still images (unless you got an EL, of course).
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: briciola on November 30, 2011, 05:32
FWIW - I went back and checked last month's numbers - I sold 3 times as many files on the PP as I did on IS, but IS still made nearly 5 times the revenue that PP did.  (caveat - bronze, low volumes)

Are you exclusive or independent? And do you have video income included in iStock? As an independent, you would have to be averaging $4.50 to get five times the income from one third the sales and it's hard to see how anyone would do that just off still images (unless you got an EL, of course).
independent, photos only.  No ELs, p+ sales at decent sizes seem to have brought the average up - like I say though, my numbers are so small it doesn't mean much - the month before I had 5 times more PP than IS sales, and the money was split about 50/50
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on November 30, 2011, 05:44
Got it, thanks. Your ratio PP:iS sales is still up there with the others even if the earnings are liable to swing a lot.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: Paulo M. F. Pires on November 30, 2011, 06:40
independent, photos only.  No ELs, p+ sales at decent sizes seem to have brought the average up - like I say though, my numbers are so small it doesn't mean much - the month before I had 5 times more PP than IS sales, and the money was split about 50/50

Same here. And after see November IS sales, I bet that i will have 80/20 for PP/IS.

 
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: jamirae on November 30, 2011, 09:26
Some of us had no choice, really and I was one of them. I thought November was the date for the move into TS, but so far I cant see any of my shots over there. Maybe they forgot? one can always prey.
they seem to be slowly getting moved over.  I had 3 there yesterday morning, 4 by the afternoon, and this morning I just checked and now I have 5 on there.  No particular order of the, either, it seems. 
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: imageegami on November 30, 2011, 09:39

Why? do they keep investing so much time, effort and money on advertising this TS?  hell, nobody is making anything over there, I havent heard of anybody happy with their earnings. Is it meant to be some Messiah micro site, which will open everybodys eyes, to see the light perhaps? beats me completely. :-\
[/quote]

It`s because they are trying to compete with Shutterstock. By opting in all independents, they automatically have the same content on Thinkstock as Shutterstock with the flick of a switch. Step 2 is to make this content cheaper than SS thereby capturing a large market share. This is the plan as best I can tell. Unfortunately its like medication, they all have side-effects. The unintended consequence of all this is that they are sacrificing a profitable revenue stream by migrating their customer base over to Thinkstock. The other problem with this is that SS is smart and they wont just stand idly by while this school yard bully swings his stick around. They have already announced single image pilot project and it wouldn`t surprise me a bit if they offered exclusivity at some point. Then you would see a massive shift to Shutterstock with iStock and Thinkstock sinking for good. This is how I see it.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: lagereek on November 30, 2011, 09:42
Amazing!  as far as I can see, these boozos at TS, they dont even give you a credit-line, just says Istockphoto under the picture.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: imageegami on November 30, 2011, 09:48
.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: lagereek on November 30, 2011, 10:03

Why? do they keep investing so much time, effort and money on advertising this TS?  hell, nobody is making anything over there, I havent heard of anybody happy with their earnings. Is it meant to be some Messiah micro site, which will open everybodys eyes, to see the light perhaps? beats me completely. :-\

It`s because they are trying to compete with Shutterstock. By opting in all independents, they automatically have the same content on Thinkstock as Shutterstock with the flick of a switch. Step 2 is to make this content cheaper than SS thereby capturing a large market share. This is the plan as best I can tell. Unfortunately its like medication, they all have side-effects. The unintended consequence of all this is that they are sacrificing a profitable revenue stream by migrating their customer base over to Thinkstock. The other problem with this is that SS is smart and they wont just stand idly by while this school yard bully swings his stick around. They have already announced single image pilot project and it wouldn`t surprise me a bit if they offered exclusivity at some point. Then you would see a massive shift to Shutterstock with iStock and Thinkstock sinking for good. This is how I see it.
[/quote]

Jeez!  they wont even come close to SS, not in a million years, not in sales, not in how to run the outfit, not in moral aspects, not in know-how, not in how to treat staff or contributors. Pugh! Im running out of reasons.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: RT on November 30, 2011, 10:39
Im sitting here in my 2009 Range-Rover ...............

* wish you'd said that earlier, I just bought a Mercedes but I'd have got the Range Rover if I knew it had wi-fi in it  ;)
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: helix7 on November 30, 2011, 10:43
Some of us had no choice, really and I was one of them. I thought November was the date for the move into TS, but so far I cant see any of my shots over there. Maybe they forgot? one can always prey.

I only have 9 files over there,and had the same amount a couple of weeks ago. Maybe they forgot me. :)

I can only hope...
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on November 30, 2011, 10:51
...one can always prey.

Getty's strategy in a nutshell - lovely typo! (I think you meant pray :) )
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on November 30, 2011, 10:55
Some of us had no choice, really and I was one of them. I thought November was the date for the move into TS, but so far I cant see any of my shots over there. Maybe they forgot? one can always prey.
they seem to be slowly getting moved over.  I had 3 there yesterday morning, 4 by the afternoon, and this morning I just checked and now I have 5 on there.  No particular order of the, either, it seems. 

That's what I see - no images before, but this morning I have 8 images there. No apparent order for choice of which ones are there (no correlation by date, title, sales total, anything)
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: lagereek on November 30, 2011, 11:30
Im sitting here in my 2009 Range-Rover ...............

 wish you'd said that earlier, I just bought a Mercedes but I'd have got the Range Rover if I knew it had wi-fi in it  ;)

Makes us two Sloane-rangers!  hurrah Henry and Henrietta!  we keep our stiff upperlips, yes. :D
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: rubyroo on November 30, 2011, 11:58
Air hair lair  ;D
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: Allsa on November 30, 2011, 12:04
I boycotted TS, until Getty forced me into the PP. I was all set to leave iStock over it, but it seemed like a futile gesture, hurting only myself while accomplishing nothing, so greed won out and I stayed. I stopped uploading there on Sept 28.

I see they have moved 3 of my images over to TS. My earnings are dropping so fast at IS that if it continues to get much worse, leaving them won't make a significant dent in my income. At that point, nothing will be holding me back from deactivating my portfolio. If you deactivate your images on IS, do they do they automatically get deactivated from TS as well?
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: lisafx on November 30, 2011, 12:09
I haven't uploaded anything anywhere in a couple of months due to my endless remodel from He11, but I like JoAnn's idea of uploading everything to the other sites and waiting a few months to upload to Istock. 

Although my images are on TS now, and doing relatively well, my royalties there are about 1/4 of what they are at SS this month (BME at SS).  I would like to continue to give SS the advantage by uploading my newest images there and holding off sending them to IS/TS. 
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: jamirae on November 30, 2011, 12:14
I boycotted TS, until Getty forced me into the PP. I was all set to leave iStock over it, but it seemed like a futile gesture, hurting only myself while accomplishing nothing, so greed won out and I stayed. I stopped uploading there on Sept 28.

I see they have moved 3 of my images over to TS. My earnings are dropping so fast at IS that if it continues to get much worse, leaving them won't make a significant dent in my income. At that point, nothing will be holding me back from deactivating my portfolio. If you deactivate your images on IS, do they do they automatically get deactivated from TS as well?

i believe that is supposed to be what happens, yes.  but can take up to 30days before it is deactivated from the partner sites.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: gostwyck on November 30, 2011, 12:23
Although my images are on TS now, and doing relatively well, my royalties there are about 1/4 of what they are at SS this month (BME at SS).  I would like to continue to give SS the advantage by uploading my newest images there and holding off sending them to IS/TS. 

They've got about 3% of my port on TS now, mainly newest images, but I'm not aware of any sales yet. I thought sales were only reported a few weeks into the following month. Where are you seeing your sales on TS for this month please?
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: lagereek on November 30, 2011, 12:29
I boycotted TS, until Getty forced me into the PP. I was all set to leave iStock over it, but it seemed like a futile gesture, hurting only myself while accomplishing nothing, so greed won out and I stayed. I stopped uploading there on Sept 28.

I see they have moved 3 of my images over to TS. My earnings are dropping so fast at IS that if it continues to get much worse, leaving them won't make a significant dent in my income. At that point, nothing will be holding me back from deactivating my portfolio. If you deactivate your images on IS, do they do they automatically get deactivated from TS as well?

i believe that is supposed to be what happens, yes.  but can take up to 30days before it is deactivated from the partner sites.

I sincerely hope not, since I have deactivated at least 75 of my more commercial sellers,  just for the reason of NOT going to TS.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: lisafx on November 30, 2011, 12:35
Although my images are on TS now, and doing relatively well, my royalties there are about 1/4 of what they are at SS this month (BME at SS).  I would like to continue to give SS the advantage by uploading my newest images there and holding off sending them to IS/TS. 


They've got about 3% of my port on TS now, mainly newest images, but I'm not aware of any sales yet. I thought sales were only reported a few weeks into the following month. Where are you seeing your sales on TS for this month please?


As I posted higher up in the thread (http://www.microstockgroup.com/istockphoto-com/did-you-boycott-pp/msg230018/#msg230018 (http://www.microstockgroup.com/istockphoto-com/did-you-boycott-pp/msg230018/#msg230018)), my entire portfolio appeared on TS a couple of months ago, shortly before the announcement that we would all be shipped over. 

I only realized it was there when I noticed a jump in my total and went looking for the reason. It was announced shortly after that we would all be shipped over.   Anyway, I have been getting PP royalties for a couple of months now. 
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: gostwyck on November 30, 2011, 12:39
As I posted higher up in the thread ([url]http://www.microstockgroup.com/istockphoto-com/did-you-boycott-pp/msg230018/#msg230018[/url] ([url]http://www.microstockgroup.com/istockphoto-com/did-you-boycott-pp/msg230018/#msg230018[/url])), my entire portfolio appeared on TS a couple of months ago, shortly before the announcement that we would all be shipped over. 

I only realized it was there when I noticed a jump in my total and went looking for the reason. It was announced shortly after that we would all be shipped over.   Anyway, I have been getting PP royalties for a couple of months now. 


I see __ but how are you seeing your PP sales for this month (you said they were about 1/4 of your SS sales)? I thought PP sales would only appear sometime in December. Have they speeded things up?
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: LesHoward on November 30, 2011, 12:49
A couple of questions...

1. Should I be able to sign into TS using my iStock userid & password? I just tried and it did not let me.

2. How do I search for my own images? Using my iStock userid yields no results.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: lisafx on November 30, 2011, 12:59

I see __ but how are you seeing your PP sales for this month (you said they were about 1/4 of your SS sales)? I thought PP sales would only appear sometime in December. Have they speeded things up?

Oh, no, I must have misspoken.  I was talking about October sales.   The sales only started showing up middle of the following month, as you said.  

@Les - search for your name (actual, not username) in quotes on TS. 
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: LesHoward on November 30, 2011, 13:12
Thanks Lisa.

0 results for:

    "Les Howard"
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on December 01, 2011, 12:08
Still almost neck-and-neck in the survey, then.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on December 05, 2011, 05:04

I sincerely hope not, since I have deactivated at least 75 of my more commercial sellers,  just for the reason of NOT going to TS.

Presumably if they hadn't been transferred when you deactivated them, then they would disappear from the queue.

How is the transfer going for those who are being forced in? Have they managed to shift more than a handful yet?
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: jamirae on December 05, 2011, 10:46

I sincerely hope not, since I have deactivated at least 75 of my more commercial sellers,  just for the reason of NOT going to TS.

Presumably if they hadn't been transferred when you deactivated them, then they would disappear from the queue.

How is the transfer going for those who are being forced in? Have they managed to shift more than a handful yet?

I'm now up to 10 images transferred over.  four of them are from my most recent upload batch but the rest are completely random. 
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: traveler1116 on December 05, 2011, 11:00
A couple of questions...

1. Should I be able to sign into TS using my iStock userid & password? I just tried and it did not let me.

2. How do I search for my own images? Using my iStock userid yields no results.
1. Nope.
2. Try your istock name and then try your real name in quotes.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: helix7 on December 05, 2011, 11:38
Last week I had 9 images on Thinkstock. This week I have 10. At that rate, my whole current portfolio will be transferred over in about 7 years.

;)
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on December 05, 2011, 11:51
I think I have your 7 years beat!

I checked this morning ad we're now up to a grand total of 10 images of mine transferred to Thinkstock/photos.com. That's up from 9 at the end of last week and 8 at the beginning of the week.

At this result, I won't see the whole portfolio of 2500 for about 24 years!
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: RacePhoto on December 06, 2011, 01:55
A couple of questions...

1. Should I be able to sign into TS using my iStock userid & password? I just tried and it did not let me.

2. How do I search for my own images? Using my iStock userid yields no results.
1. Nope.
2. Try your istock name and then try your real name in quotes.

Correct #1 is No Connection from IS to ThinkStock accounts.

2. Something strange, I just had a new one show with my new IS Business Name, while my old images show with my real name. Some show up "fname lname" some show "fnamelname" one new image under the "business name". The one with two names was my real name, first import. The one with the two names run together was my old account name / business name.

Also when I search on IS contributor charts the name is the one with no space and if I try the new Business Name or adding the new business name, it says user not found.

So it's possible to have two, but Thinkstock could have any of three different name for any of us, and if you change your business name, the old one will still be there, plus anything new, will go under the new business name.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: jamirae on December 06, 2011, 11:34
A couple of questions...

1. Should I be able to sign into TS using my iStock userid & password? I just tried and it did not let me.

2. How do I search for my own images? Using my iStock userid yields no results.
1. Nope.
2. Try your istock name and then try your real name in quotes.

Correct #1 is No Connection from IS to ThinkStock accounts.

2. Something strange, I just had a new one show with my new IS Business Name, while my old images show with my real name. Some show up "fname lname" some show "fnamelname" one new image under the "business name". The one with two names was my real name, first import. The one with the two names run together was my old account name / business name.

Also when I search on IS contributor charts the name is the one with no space and if I try the new Business Name or adding the new business name, it says user not found.

So it's possible to have two, but Thinkstock could have any of three different name for any of us, and if you change your business name, the old one will still be there, plus anything new, will go under the new business name.

how confusing is that?!
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: stockastic on December 06, 2011, 17:17
This is so totally weird.   I search for images by my IS name, and get nothing.  I search with my real name in quotes and get exactly 1 image. 

I also think it's weird that they're moving our photos to TS but not giving us accounts there.  Excuse me but didn't we already walk over hot coals to get approved at IS? But we're not good enough for their new bargain-basement outlet?

Talk about being directed to the "servant's entrance" out in the alley.   
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: helix7 on December 06, 2011, 18:17
...I also think it's weird that they're moving our photos to TS but not giving us accounts there.  Excuse me but didn't we already walk over hot coals to get approved at IS? But we're not good enough for their new bargain-basement outlet?...

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone gets a login at TS. I was under the impression that the whole site is pulling in content from other collections, not directly from contributor uploads.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on December 06, 2011, 23:53
...I also think it's weird that they're moving our photos to TS but not giving us accounts there.  Excuse me but didn't we already walk over hot coals to get approved at IS? But we're not good enough for their new bargain-basement outlet?...

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone gets a login at TS. I was under the impression that the whole site is pulling in content from other collections, not directly from contributor uploads.

Yes, it's not weird at all. There are dozens of partner sites allowed to represent our work without us being able to log on to them. There's a list of the partner sites different agencies deal with here, somewhere
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: aeonf on December 07, 2011, 08:19
I have 15% of my portfolio (and its the oldest part of it) and for October for example it gave consisted of about 1.5% of my revenue.
As an exclusive I am all for the PP.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: stockastic on December 07, 2011, 10:35
Yes I see now, there's no way to submit to TS at all, it's just an outlet site.  I guess maybe I thought we'd at least get a logon to see our portfolios there.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on December 07, 2011, 12:11
No new images made it to Thinkstock/photos.com yesterday but one more this morning - we're up to 11 now!

The estimate of 24 years was way too short :)
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: WarrenPrice on December 07, 2011, 15:50
No new images made it to Thinkstock/photos.com yesterday but one more this morning - we're up to 11 now!

The estimate of 24 years was way too short :)

More confusion... is there not a review process to determine which images will be shared with TS?  Or, do all iS images eventually end up at TS:

I had the impression TS was more like a dollar bin, or a place for "lower quality" images?  ???

PS:  more than half of my small iS port has been shared in TS.   :-\
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on December 07, 2011, 16:01
It's the lot, no further QC after iStock acceptance.
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: WarrenPrice on December 07, 2011, 16:10
It's the lot, no further QC after iStock acceptance.

Well, now, I am really confused ---WHY?
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: Jo Ann Snover on December 07, 2011, 16:13
I can't say why, but my guess is that they don't have enough good content for the site. They tried to entice iStock contributors but many weren't interested for one reason or another. They haven't (yet) enforced participation on iStock exclusives, but they have on Getty contributors and iStock independents.

Can't compete with SS without content (I don't think they can even with the independent content that is on iStock as SS has so much more that IS doesn't have, but that's another discusssion).
Title: Re: POLL: Did you boycott Thinkstock?
Post by: BaldricksTrousers on December 07, 2011, 16:18
I think it is just a multiplication of sales outlets. Since most indies already sell on subscription sites, Getty doesn't see why it shouldn't offer their content at a similar price point. They don't care whether customers like buying at a credit site or at a subs site as long as the place you buy from is Getty owned.