Author Topic: dropping the crown at IS (Read 10863 times)

malamus · « **on:** July 12, 2012, 04:19 »

Has anybody of late dropped their crown at IS to explore the other sites, willing to share there news, success, etc.

I do realise this is an old subject, but considering recent events at IS I'm looking for some current info on what likely to expect now, or could anybody point me in the direction where people are discussing this.

Thanks

wut · « **Reply #1 on:** July 12, 2012, 05:07 »

Funny, I'm thinking about becoming exclusive... :s

Lagereek · « **Reply #2 on:** July 12, 2012, 05:47 »

Quote from: malamus on July 12, 2012, 04:19

Has anybody of late dropped their crown at IS to explore the other sites, willing to share there news, success, etc.

I do realise this is an old subject, but considering recent events at IS I'm looking for some current info on what likely to expect now, or could anybody point me in the direction where people are discussing this.

Thanks

To be honest, youve got very few files and dls, independant or exclusivity shouldnt be your top priority right now, it wouldnt matter. However for the ones who have turned independant, it does seem to have worked out for the better.

john_woodcock · « **Reply #3 on:** July 12, 2012, 05:56 »

Quote

it does seem to have worked out for the better.

I can't say I have seen anything to suggest this is true, at least in financial terms.

wut · « **Reply #4 on:** July 12, 2012, 06:06 »

Quote from: john_woodcock on July 12, 2012, 05:56

Quote
it does seem to have worked out for the better.

I can't say I have seen anything to suggest this is true, at least in financial terms.

+1, most ppl struggle for a year, they get 25% of their usual earnings in the first few months and it looks like most don't reach their previous numbers or even exceed it. Perhaps jsnover made it, but I haven't heard of anyone else and I'm here all the time. On top there's just so much hassle, re-keywording all the images as the biggest PITA (I know, since I didn't input IPTC data for over a year and I did it for just over 100 images and I almost lost my mind doing it)

cathyslife · « **Reply #5 on:** July 12, 2012, 06:09 »

Anyone that has dropped the crown in the last couple of months wont likely have much to report. It takes time to build a presence. You dont drop today and show a huge increase in money tomorrow. jsnover should be able to give a report, I think its been at least a few months since she dropped.

Sadstock · « **Reply #6 on:** July 12, 2012, 06:45 »

Quote from: john_woodcock on July 12, 2012, 05:56

Quote
it does seem to have worked out for the better.

I can't say I have seen anything to suggest this is true, at least in financial terms.

----------------------------------
I'm a diamond and dropped exclusivity in early 2011 and I'm ahead financially for dropping the crown, despite the fact that only about 40% of my Istock files are uploaded to other sites.

leaf · « **Reply #7 on:** July 12, 2012, 06:53 »

It is critical that you submit to Shutterstock if you want to be successful as a non-exclusive. If you aren't already accepted as a contributor there, I'd try and pass the test before giving up istock exclusivity. If you don't pass, wait on giving up exclusivity until you do.

Lagereek · « **Reply #8 on:** July 12, 2012, 07:22 »

Quote from: leaf on July 12, 2012, 06:53

It is critical that you submit to Shutterstock if you want to be successful as a non-exclusive. If you aren't already accepted as a contributor there, I'd try and pass the test before giving up istock exclusivity. If you don't pass, wait on giving up exclusivity until you do.

Agree 100%. Anybody even thinking of dropping this crown, SS, is a must and for most of us indies, I bet SS, stand for half of our turnover.

john_woodcock · « **Reply #9 on:** July 12, 2012, 07:33 »

Here's some views from the other side of the fence

http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=344503

cathyslife · « **Reply #10 on:** July 12, 2012, 08:04 »

Quote from: john_woodcock on July 12, 2012, 07:33

Here's some views from the other side of the fence

http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=344503

There are going to be success stories and there are going to be failure stories. And neither really matter, because the success of any one contributor's port depends on whether there's a market for those images at the other agencies. You could be selling gangbusters at istock and yet bomb at SS. There is no way to compare any one contributor's success or failure to anyone else's. You have to be willing to take a chance and try it, or stay where you are. Unfortunately.

ShadySue · « **Reply #11 on:** July 12, 2012, 08:33 »

One tog announced his frustration with iStock not long ago and became independent. I doubt if he could have been indie for a week before applying for exclusivity again, and is now 'so glad to be exclusive'. (This is NOT the thread referenced above). I'd say he hadn't given independence enough of a trial to make any sort of judgement. No problem with changing your mind, or returning to the 'known', but I don't think he can say with any validity that he was better off being exclusive.
What's said above is valid. It depends a lot on your own port, and you can never know for sure without trying, and even if you gave independence, or indeed exclusivity, a six month trial, your results might just reflect the time of year.
And without even the benefit of eschatological verification, IOW, I guess it's more like Schrödinger's cat: no matter which way you choose, you can't know for sure whether the other would have been better for you, given your own port, what the agencies might randomly decide to do in the future, which you can't know now, whether some new upstart agency with a now-unknown system might start, and how the buyers might act based on hypothetic and unknowable (by us) future changes.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #12 on:** July 12, 2012, 09:09 »

Quote from: cclapper on July 12, 2012, 06:09

Anyone that has dropped the crown in the last couple of months wont likely have much to report. It takes time to build a presence. You dont drop today and show a huge increase in money tomorrow. jsnover should be able to give a report, I think its been at least a few months since she dropped.

If you're not prepared to give it at least a year to get established everywhere (and in particular to get your earnings up at SS which requires you get beyond the basic levels), then perhaps hang out some more with IS. I became independent again June 2011, but I had been independent from fall 2004 to August 2008, so I had a very clear idea of what I was returning to - I was gold at IS when I became exclusive.

One of the things you lose once you make a shift - in either direction - is what the alternative would have been. I see lots of doom and gloom reports for IS exclusives in the monthly sales threads (with a few exceptions, typically for those with lots of E+ files). After a few months of independence I was down in earnings, but then so were a lot of IS exclusives. Was I worse or better off?

A few months ago I had a month that beat my prior year IS earnings for the first time. What I am really after is establishing a solid platform for earning money from my photos - where I don't see a freefall in earnings because one site has changed best match, lost customers, raised prices, etc. I think H&F and Getty have been very bad for IS and don't bode well for its future, but IS is still either my #1 or #2 each month, so I want it to keep going until someone else can knock it off that perch.

And yes, if you can't get accepted at SS then financially you might as well not bother

disorderly · « **Reply #13 on:** July 12, 2012, 09:32 »

One complicating factor is that many of your older images won't pass muster today. I continue to have success with images I uploaded early on. They aren't of the quality or resolution I produce now, yet they keep selling. If I were exclusive on one site (I'm not and never was), I'd have to accept that many best sellers are unlikely to gain good position in search results at new agencies. That'll be less of a factor over time as I continue to produce images, and at least some images will penetrate search results over time, but at least early on the results are likely to disappoint.

wut · « **Reply #14 on:** July 12, 2012, 10:07 »

Quote from: jsnover on July 12, 2012, 09:09

A few months ago I had a month that beat my prior year IS earnings for the first time

That's exactly what I meant in my previous post. Virtually no one earns as much or even more after dropping the crown, I thought jsnover could be the only exception I know of, but as we can now see she isn't. And to imagine all the hassle of re-keywording and reuploading images, it's a huge loss of time, not just money. Just stay exclusive unless you really have nothing to lose and if you don't depend on ms earnings

cathyslife · « **Reply #15 on:** July 12, 2012, 10:50 »

Quote from: wut on July 12, 2012, 10:07

Quote from: jsnover on July 12, 2012, 09:09
A few months ago I had a month that beat my prior year IS earnings for the first time

That's exactly what I meant in my previous post. Virtually no one earns as much or even more after dropping the crown, I thought jsnover could be the only exception I know of, but as we can now see she isn't. And to imagine all the hassle of re-keywording and reuploading images, it's a huge loss of time, not just money. Just stay exclusive unless you really have nothing to lose and if you don't depend on ms earnings

I guess you didn't see this post...

Quote

Posted by: Sadstock
I'm a diamond and dropped exclusivity in early 2011 and I'm ahead financially for dropping the crown, despite the fact that only about 40% of my Istock files are uploaded to other sites.

Just because only 1 or 2 people post here of their success, doesn't mean "virtually no one". There must be tens of thousands of contributors who don't post here OR on the istock forums, or any forums, for that matter. So the evidence present here, pro OR con, is anecdotal.

wut · « **Reply #16 on:** July 12, 2012, 11:13 »

Quote from: cclapper on July 12, 2012, 10:50

Quote from: wut on July 12, 2012, 10:07
Quote from: jsnover on July 12, 2012, 09:09
A few months ago I had a month that beat my prior year IS earnings for the first time

That's exactly what I meant in my previous post. Virtually no one earns as much or even more after dropping the crown, I thought jsnover could be the only exception I know of, but as we can now see she isn't. And to imagine all the hassle of re-keywording and reuploading images, it's a huge loss of time, not just money. Just stay exclusive unless you really have nothing to lose and if you don't depend on ms earnings

I guess you didn't see this post...

Quote
Posted by: Sadstock
I'm a diamond and dropped exclusivity in early 2011 and I'm ahead financially for dropping the crown, despite the fact that only about 40% of my Istock files are uploaded to other sites.

Just because only 1 or 2 people post here of their success, doesn't mean "virtually no one". There must be tens of thousands of contributors who don't post here OR on the istock forums, or any forums, for that matter. So the evidence present here, pro OR con, is anecdotal.

In such an anti-IS atmosphere, believe me, everybody who's doing better after dropping the crown would be very loud about it, as well as lots of ppl would point to him

. I know assumption is the mother of all mess ups, but logic dictates that given the evidence we have (or lack of it) suggests most ppl are doing worse after dropping the crown. The conclusion is clear, it's inadvisable to do so

luissantos84 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 12, 2012, 11:15 »

Quote from: wut on July 12, 2012, 11:13

Quote from: cclapper on July 12, 2012, 10:50
Quote from: wut on July 12, 2012, 10:07
Quote from: jsnover on July 12, 2012, 09:09
A few months ago I had a month that beat my prior year IS earnings for the first time

That's exactly what I meant in my previous post. Virtually no one earns as much or even more after dropping the crown, I thought jsnover could be the only exception I know of, but as we can now see she isn't. And to imagine all the hassle of re-keywording and reuploading images, it's a huge loss of time, not just money. Just stay exclusive unless you really have nothing to lose and if you don't depend on ms earnings

I guess you didn't see this post...

Quote
Posted by: Sadstock
I'm a diamond and dropped exclusivity in early 2011 and I'm ahead financially for dropping the crown, despite the fact that only about 40% of my Istock files are uploaded to other sites.

Just because only 1 or 2 people post here of their success, doesn't mean "virtually no one". There must be tens of thousands of contributors who don't post here OR on the istock forums, or any forums, for that matter. So the evidence present here, pro OR con, is anecdotal.

In such an anti-IS atmosphere, believe me, everybody who's doing better after dropping the crown would be very loud about it, as well as lots of ppl would point to him . I know assumption is the mother of all mess ups, but logic dictates that given the evidence we have (or lack of it) suggests most ppl are doing worse after dropping the crown. The conclusion is clear, it's inadvisable to do so

and the opposite?

cthoman · « **Reply #18 on:** July 12, 2012, 11:21 »

Quote from: wut on July 12, 2012, 11:13

In such an anti-IS atmosphere, believe me, everybody who's doing better after dropping the crown would be very loud about it, as well as lots of ppl would point to him . I know assumption is the mother of all mess ups, but logic dictates that given the evidence we have (or lack of it) suggests most ppl are doing worse after dropping the crown. The conclusion is clear, it's inadvisable to do so

I can't say I have any evidence one way or the other, but I would think most exclusives would have trouble because they are unprepared to deal with the rest of the market. It's very different. Your images don't get all the special favors and perks that exclusives used to get. Maybe, that is why Jo Ann did well with the transition. She knew exactly what to expect.

Lagereek · « **Reply #19 on:** July 12, 2012, 11:38 »

I think most ppl, get the shock of their lifetime after dropping the crown, Im sure they could never ever have guessed the amount of work involved, plus the fact of extremely tough editing from agencies such as ,SS,DT and FT.

heywoody · « **Reply #20 on:** July 12, 2012, 11:55 »

Obviously can't speak from experience so let's layer some assumptions on top of each other:

Assume relative earnings on the top right are accurate, then that as exclusive you double the number for IS and then that you get roughly the same number of images on the top 4, in the LONG term you should replace $120 with $100 + $60 + $40 + $30.

After that, there is a the extra work but also some safety net in case the basket holding all your eggs gets dropped.

Mantis · « **Reply #21 on:** July 12, 2012, 11:58 »

It is a lot of extra work indeed to not be exclusive, but I am glad I took the non exclusive road especially in the face of what the agencies like Istock, DT, 123, and ft have done to their contributors.

cathyslife · « **Reply #22 on:** July 12, 2012, 12:05 »

Quote from: Mantis on July 12, 2012, 11:58

It is a lot of extra work indeed to not be exclusive, but I am glad I took the non exclusive road especially in the face of what the agencies like Istock, DT, 123, and ft have done to their contributors.

+1

And really, once I had FTPs set up for all the sites I was contributing to, the extra work was what, 5 or 10 more minutes? istock was the only one with different keywording. All the other sites can be keyworded in PS and uploaded. Maybe some differences here and there, like the sites that split multiple words. The bulk of the time is spent on post processing and you have to do that for all of the sites.

But please, if anyone thinks exclusivity is the way to go, I'm all for it for you. Especially if you are going exclusive at istock.

wut · « **Reply #23 on:** July 12, 2012, 12:05 »

Quote from: cthoman on July 12, 2012, 11:21

Quote from: wut on July 12, 2012, 11:13
In such an anti-IS atmosphere, believe me, everybody who's doing better after dropping the crown would be very loud about it, as well as lots of ppl would point to him . I know assumption is the mother of all mess ups, but logic dictates that given the evidence we have (or lack of it) suggests most ppl are doing worse after dropping the crown. The conclusion is clear, it's inadvisable to do so

I can't say I have any evidence one way or the other, but I would think most exclusives would have trouble because they are unprepared to deal with the rest of the market. It's very different. Your images don't get all the special favors and perks that exclusives used to get. Maybe, that is why Jo Ann did well with the transition. She knew exactly what to expect.

But she didn't :s

Only one month has surpassed exclusive earnings in over a year now...

ETA: typo

michaeldb · « **Reply #24 on:** July 12, 2012, 12:20 »

Quote from: wut on July 12, 2012, 12:05

"I can't say I have any evidence one way or the other, but I would think most exclusives would have trouble because they are unprepared to deal with the rest of the market. It's very different. Your images don't get all the special favors and perks that exclusives used to get. Maybe, that is why Jo Ann did well with the transition. She knew exactly what to expect."

But she didn't :s

Only one month has surpassed exclusive earnings in over a year now...

She said it was the first month, not the only month.

wut · « **Reply #25 on:** July 12, 2012, 12:28 »

Quote from: michaeldb on July 12, 2012, 12:20

Quote from: wut on July 12, 2012, 12:05
"I can't say I have any evidence one way or the other, but I would think most exclusives would have trouble because they are unprepared to deal with the rest of the market. It's very different. Your images don't get all the special favors and perks that exclusives used to get. Maybe, that is why Jo Ann did well with the transition. She knew exactly what to expect."

But she didn't :s

Only one month has surpassed exclusive earnings in over a year now...
She said it was the first month, not the only month.

No she didn't

Quote from: jsnover on July 12, 2012, 09:09

A few months ago I had a month that beat my prior year IS earnings for the first time.

heywoody · « **Reply #26 on:** July 12, 2012, 13:08 »

I see the word "first" I don't see "only" - whether there was a 2nd could be inferred either way..

cthoman · « **Reply #27 on:** July 12, 2012, 13:13 »

Quote from: wut on July 12, 2012, 12:05

But she didn't :s

Only one month has surpassed exclusive earnings in over a year now...

ETA: typo

Maybe, my bar is too low, but I would count that as a success. I would expect it to take time to completely reorganize your business, upload all your files elsewhere and let them gain traction in the searches. Not to mention trying to create new work at the same time. You just kind of expect that transition to result in a loss, so to get back to around where you were in a year seems like a good accomplishment.

wut · « **Reply #28 on:** July 12, 2012, 13:16 »

Quote from: heywoody on July 12, 2012, 13:08

I see the word "first" I don't see "only" - whether there was a 2nd could be inferred either way..

Well now I see it, I was a bit quick on the trigger, my bad, I was too definitive

wut · « **Reply #29 on:** July 12, 2012, 13:20 »

Quote from: cthoman on July 12, 2012, 13:13

Quote from: wut on July 12, 2012, 12:05
But she didn't :s

Only one month has surpassed exclusive earnings in over a year now...

ETA: typo

Maybe, my bar is too low, but I would count that as a success. I would expect it to take time to completely reorganize your business, upload all your files elsewhere and let them gain traction in the searches. Not to mention trying to create new work at the same time. You just kind of expect that transition to result in a loss, so to get back to around where you were in a year seems like a good accomplishment.

I wasn't talking about the time frame (although a year is a long time), but more about whether she accomplished that or not, it's not really clear, as heywoody pointed out. At first I thought, I understood, like she didn't, while she was the only one going indie and could be, that I know of.

Freedom · « **Reply #30 on:** July 12, 2012, 15:21 »

JoAnn may not be an appropriate example to measure before/after crown for two reasons.

First, she hardly nominated any E+ images when she was exclusive. Nowadays, E+ earnings make a huge difference for an exclusive. Taking myself as an example, thanks to E+, I have already made almost the same amount of RCs (earnings) as I did in 2011 for the entire year, so I expect to retain my current level for next year if IS does not make a drastic change.

Secondly, she left IS at a low point in IS history. She did not have the opportunity to benefit from the stable growth period. As I said, I had my best months ever from March to May in 2012. June was bad, July had a terrible start. But things will normally pick up in September. Plus E+ images is promised to be mirrored in Getty. I will wait and see.

Lagereek · « **Reply #31 on:** July 12, 2012, 15:26 »

Quote from: Freedom on July 12, 2012, 15:21

JoAnn may not be an appropriate example to measure before/after crown for two reasons.

First, she hardly nominated any E+ images when she was exclusive. Nowadays, E+ earnings make a huge difference for an exclusive. Taking myself as an example, thanks to E+, I have already made almost the same amount of RCs (earnings) as I did in 2011 for the entire year, so I expect to retain my current level for next year if IS does not make a drastic change.

Secondly, she left IS at a low point in IS history. She did not have the opportunity to benefit from the stable growth period. As I said, I had my best months ever from March to May in 2012. June was bad, July had a terrible start. But things will normally pick up in September. Plus E+ images is promised to be mirrored in Getty. I will wait and see.

How come you know all this about JoAnn? are you her hubby or something?

Freedom · « **Reply #32 on:** July 12, 2012, 16:29 »

Christian, I knew her because she was active on IS forum and disclosed these info. Is it similar that you frequently make comments on the pros and cons of dropping exclusive since you have never been an exclusive yourself?

Lagereek · « **Reply #33 on:** July 13, 2012, 00:34 »

Quote from: Freedom on July 12, 2012, 16:29

Christian, I knew her because she was active on IS forum and disclosed these info. Is it similar that you frequently make comments on the pros and cons of dropping exclusive since you have never been an exclusive yourself?

Yeah, I was only joking, I know.

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #34 on:** July 13, 2012, 03:45 »

It's all a gamble. Just as you never know whether or not any photo will take off, so you can never know what things would be like on the other side of the fence. I think the only certainty is that if you can't get accepted to SS, then you'll be worse off as an independent.

ShadySue · « **Reply #35 on:** July 13, 2012, 08:11 »

@OP: you've got a reasonable dl/ul ratio: did you consider uploading more to iStock to see what happens?
I realise your personal circumstances may make that more difficult than uploading your existing port elsewhere, but it's just a thought.

malamus · « **Reply #36 on:** July 13, 2012, 10:06 »

Well, thank you all for your comments. There is much I could comment on (old images not cutting the mustard, how embarrassing are they! but a good point).

I was contributing to the big 4 before going exclusive and at that time, like now, I asked lots of advice. Those who said you will never know until you try, of course, were right, just as that is true now. but a percentage was also mentioned quite a lot (I forget what that was now) and although I had a fair success on SS, FT was dire, the move to Istock, I believe, increased income slightly but saved a lot of time (and not forgetting, taught me a lot)

I'm looking to get info about going non exclusive as, since last year, my earnings have more than halved from $1000+ p/m to $100 p/w (I did also stop uploading). Now I have time to spend again, I am trying to work out how best to spend that time, shooting for istock to try and hold on to and increase income, (which is looking promising as new images are being purchased quickly) or keyword all images (that I feel are of quality) and upload them to the big 4 again.

Maybe it is to early to tell and I do wish all people ditching the crown in the pursuit of a more profitable portfolio the best of luck.

My conclusion. I get the impression people who have dropped the crown ARE clawing their earnings back, but due to a lot of hard work. As I still see this income as an enjoyable hobby with a £bonus rather than a choire, I will set myself a target to reach the income I once had, then review the situation again

Thank you for all your help

One question I would like to ask… If I did dropped the crown, and after 6 months returned to IS, is it simply a case of reactivating all images and more importantly could my portfolio become damaged, i.e. much less profitable due to any reasons that elude me.

ShadySue · « **Reply #37 on:** July 13, 2012, 10:40 »

Quote from: malamus on July 13, 2012, 10:06

One question I would like to ask… If I did dropped the crown, and after 6 months returned to IS, is it simply a case of reactivating all images and more importantly could my portfolio become damaged, i.e. much less profitable due to any reasons that elude me.

Were you thinking of removing your pics completely from iStock?
Otherwise why would they need to be reactivated?
While you were indie, they might lose any 'push' than exclusives might (or might not) get.
If you became exclusive again, they'd regain any putative 'push'.

malamus · « **Reply #38 on:** July 13, 2012, 10:50 »

No, I would keep all images with IS, I wouldn't think there 's any benifit to drop IS. I was simply trying to assertain any implications that may be imposed for leaving and returning, Surely it can't be as simple as checking a tick box to become exclusive again, can it?

ShadySue · « **Reply #39 on:** July 13, 2012, 10:52 »

Quote from: malamus on July 13, 2012, 10:50

No, I would keep all images with IS, I wouldn't think there 's any benifit to drop IS. I was simply trying to assertain any implications that may be imposed for leaving and returning, Surely it can't be as simple as checking a tick box to become exclusive again, can it?

As far as I know, it is.

BaldricksTrousers · « **Reply #40 on:** July 13, 2012, 11:24 »

Quote from: ShadySue on July 13, 2012, 10:52

Quote from: malamus on July 13, 2012, 10:50
No, I would keep all images with IS, I wouldn't think there 's any benifit to drop IS. I was simply trying to assertain any implications that may be imposed for leaving and returning, Surely it can't be as simple as checking a tick box to become exclusive again, can it?
As far as I know, it is.

Except that there is a six month lock-in at DT and I think some other sites may be hard to get off, so it could be messy trying to arrange that side of things.

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Author Topic: dropping the crown at IS (Read 10863 times)

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