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Author Topic: Extrapolating Redeemed Credits  (Read 12353 times)

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lisafx

« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2010, 15:08 »
0

I wasn't suggesting that you were forgetting the higher prices, just that you couldn't use these stats to extrapolate your potential earnings as an exclusive.

The way the targets are set it would be relatively easier for exclusives to reach than independents precisely for the reason that they're accumulating credits faster on the same download numbers.  


I get what you are saying Holgs, and that makes sense.  

Also, my comment about not forgetting the difference was addressed more to Aeonf and LeCyclope - I should have quoted them:

lisafx: a few more factors you forgot and where not mentioned here:

1. As an exc your files are much more expensive. more expensive photos = less demand = less downloads.



I think you forgot that as an excusive, your photos are going to be sold at higher price, and this can go from 20 to 100% more.  So this means more redeemed credits par sale and more $.


It's really hard to know which way the exclusivity factor will cut as far as credits go.  I suspect it would be a huge advantage.  That's why the comparison chart numbers only being slightly more than double for exclusivity surprised me. 

One thing I know for sure - there's no way I could manage the 1.4 million to get 45% as a BD exclusive if folks at Sean's level aren't getting it.  Those guys run rings around me both talent and saleswise. 
« Last Edit: September 26, 2010, 15:14 by lisafx »


lisafx

« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2010, 15:17 »
0

I think it will be the long-term Diamond exclusives that are hit hardest. I'm past the 30% level, but short of a massive upswing there's no chance I'll retain 35% for the start of next year.

I am really sorry to hear that.  So unfair.  I feel folks like you and Dave Guilder who were persuaded to sign up to ensure your canister levels are among the biggest victims of this new policy. 

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2010, 15:51 »
0
I'll take it one step further.
If we know the value of a redeemed credit at each level, you can work out the royalties needed in order to maintain your commission level. You can calculate what royalties you'll need to jump up a level, too. Here's another handy dandy chart:

Level          Commission   Redeemed    Royalties Needed    Royalties Needed
                                       Credits Req'd      to Maintain              to Promote

IndyBase                15%               -                       -                               $398
IndyBronze             16%           2,000                 $424                         $2,650
IndySilver               17%         12,500               $2,816                         $9,010
IndyGold                18%         40,000               $9,540                       $35,775
IndyDiamond          19%       150,000              $37,763                     $352,450
IndyBlackDiamond  20%     1,400,000            $371,000                             -

Bronze                   25%           2,000                    -                              $4,141
Silver                     30%         12,500                $4,969                       $15,900   
Gold                      35%         40,000              $18,550                        $69,563
Diamond                40%       150,000              $79,500                      $742,000         
Black Diamond        45%    1,400,000            $834,750                              -


So if you're currently at Gold level, you'll need to earn $18,550 per year to maintain that commission rate - if you earn $69,553 you'll jump up to Diamond level. If you're an independent and iStock comprises 40% of your total microstock revenue, then you'll have to be earning about $94k to "earn" a 19% commission, and about 928k to get 20%.

Thanks Sharply_Done for that chart, that really puts a better perspective on things....so if I'm understanding right....the most you can make being an independent is 20% correct? The canister's are pretty much tossed out the window because the future pay structure based on sales $$$ and the credits and not the canister level. Correct me if I'm wrong because the way those figures look...there would be no reason for anyone to stay as an independent.

Oh and no need for anyone to point out I've only had 483 downloads in 4 years....I'm already very aware of that. I do have somewhat of a life outside of microstock. ::)

« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2010, 16:01 »
0
...so if I'm understanding right....the most you can make being an independent is 20% correct? The canister's are pretty much tossed out the window because the future pay structure based on sales $$$ and the credits and not the canister level. Correct me if I'm wrong because the way those figures look...there would be no reason for anyone to stay as an independent.

Donding,

From your question, it sounds like you believe that independents could increase our royalty percentage with canister changes.  That's not the case; independents got 20%, no matter the level.  The only significance of canisters was and continues to be our upload limit.

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2010, 16:07 »
0
...so if I'm understanding right....the most you can make being an independent is 20% correct? The canister's are pretty much tossed out the window because the future pay structure based on sales $$$ and the credits and not the canister level. Correct me if I'm wrong because the way those figures look...there would be no reason for anyone to stay as an independent.

Donding,

From your question, it sounds like you believe that independents could increase our royalty percentage with canister changes.  That's not the case; independents got 20%, no matter the level.  The only significance of canisters was and continues to be our upload limit.

Thanks disorderly. I thought that was the way it was or would be but wasn't 100% certain.

« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2010, 16:41 »
0
Here's a rough estimate: If I divide my redeemed credits by my royalties so far this year it works out to 1 redeemed credit = $0.53. I'm at diamond level, so you'll have to adjust this if you're not at that level. Here's a handy dandy chart:

Level   Commission   Redeemed Credit Value
Base           20%                    $0.27
Bronze        25%                    $0.33
Silver          30%                    $0.40
Gold           35%                    $0.46
Diamond     40%                    $0.53

So if you're at silver level and you earn $200 in a month, that works out to $200/0.40 = 500 redeemed credits.
Wow.. turns out i dont get this RC thing at all. sorry for my dense-ness (its genetic, i cant help it and it manifests itsself extra when maths are around), but i always thought we got 1RC for each istock credit spent on our pictures, so i was convinced it was more or less 1RC = $1. So in my assumption, as independent, if i sold an medium for lets say $2 commission @ 20% makes roughly 10RCs. totally wrong..?   :-\
Also, according to your full chart as independent silver i'd maintain 17% at $2816... i've sold over $2800 but am still only at 10000 and a bit+ RC's for this year.
I'm lost now, can anyone explain in dummy language how i can find out how much RC's i should get per $'s royalties? To have at least a slight idea if they update correctly? (the RC's so far divided by royalties would work, but im still convinced my RC's are totally wonky and i dont see the trees through the forest anymore, so i have no clue if, and how far off they are...)
Geez, do i feel utterly dumb...

lisafx

« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2010, 17:20 »
0
From one math challenged person to another, Artemis, I feel your pain.  Thank God my husband and teenage daughter can help out.  I call on them all the time :)

Yeah, I am totally confused too.  Gonna call in hubby on this one....

Okay...take your dollar amount and divide it by your total redeemed credits and it will give you your $ per credit.  In your case $2800/10,000 = $.28 per credit, which is right in line with Sharply's estimated .27. 

To get your RC per $ you reverse it and divide credits by dollar amount. 10,000/$2800 = 3.5 credits per dollar of royalties you have received. 

I am not sure about the accuracy of the second chart in your case.  If you are getting 3.5 credits/$, then you will need to make around $3571 to stay at 17%.

In my case, Sharply's second chart is pretty darned accurate.  I am getting around 3.8 credits per dollar.  I would need to make $368,421.00 to stay at Black Diamond.  ROFLMAO!  Piece of cake!  ;D

Many thanks to my smart and patient hubby for going over all of this with me!



 
« Last Edit: September 26, 2010, 18:06 by lisafx »

zzz

« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2010, 17:51 »
0
Quote
... i always thought we got 1RC for each istock credit spent on our pictures, so i was convinced it was more or less 1RC = $1. So in my assumption, as independent, if i sold an medium for lets say $2 commission @ 20% makes roughly 10RCs. totally wrong..?

I don't think you are dense even though you are a bit off guessing 1RC=$1. Here's an example: let's say you're a gold contributor (earning 30% of what the buyer spent) and so far this year you have
  • earned $12K
  • received 20K redeemed credits
  • 2,000 downloads
That means buyers actually spent $12K/30% = $40K to buy your files. That also means buyers spent an average of 40K/2,000 downloads = $20 per download.

What does this tell us? You
  • get an average of 20K/2,000 = 10 redeemed credits per download
  • get an average of $12K/20K = 0.6 redeemed credits per dollar you earned

The latter is what sharply_done calls Redeemed Credit Value (RCV). Note that your mileage will vary due to EL's, Vettas, and subscription sales. My own RCV turns out to be spot on with sharply_done's table and my current commission percentage.

By the way the example above leads to $40K/20K = $2 spent per credit by the buyers. Bear in mind that the example above isn't the most realistic. We just saw that a gold contributor has an RCV of $0.46 instead of the $0.60 shown in the example. I think the buyers actually spend an average of $1.52 per credit. So it's not $1 per credit as you guessed. I also think buyers spend an average of 11 credits per download.

donding

  • Think before you speak
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2010, 18:27 »
0
More confusion......I give up. :-\
I don't really know why I'm worried about it cause come the first of January I'll be out of there..good luck to everyone else

ShadySue

  • There is a crack in everything
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2010, 18:28 »
0
It occurs to me that someone like Holgs, having only recently gone exclusive, could be quite seriously disadvantaged by being paid next year according to his RC's for this year, most of which he was independent for.

Actually, that makes the big push to encourage people to become exclusive (and the honeyed, but empty promises) earlier in the year seem really cynical.

zzz

« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2010, 18:29 »
0
Quote
By the way the example above leads to $40K/20K = $2 spent per credit by the buyers. Bear in mind that the example above isn't the most realistic. We just saw that a gold contributor has an RCV of $0.46 instead of the $0.60 shown in the example. I think the buyers actually spend an average of $1.52 per credit. So it's not $1 per credit as you guessed. I also think buyers spend an average of 11 credits per download.
I just checked the package prizes at istock and realized that $1.52 per credit is the most expensive option available. So if my calculations are right, most buyers in general don't opt for the larger packages.

« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2010, 19:20 »
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Lisa (and family!)and zzz: a BIG, huge thanks  for spelling it out for me, never could have figured it out on my own! :) The system is so different from what i assumed (if i get $30 royalties today makes 150 RC's..not) i really felt lost... Still trying to wrap my mind around this (why do canister levels matter as independent for example?) but at least i can do the maths going with your examples :)
They surely went out of their way to make this as complicated and un-transparent as possible for the dummies.  I've been calculating and am also in line with the estimates. 0,26 per credit and 3,8 RC/dollar (avg $7 per download which i think is surprisingly low). Issue is we have to use the RC's we got so far to calculate this and i think those are off for me. In this calculation with 3,8 RC's /dollar royalty i should have received over 700 RC's since the announcement, i only got 450+. I'm sure they'll claim its a math error on my side which it well might be, but i'll never be sure and my distrust is bigger then ever (also proven with sharply's 2nd chart, i made the needed $2800+, yet i still lack 2K RC's?!). Blegh :(
« Last Edit: September 26, 2010, 19:21 by Artemis »

« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2010, 19:48 »
0

I wasn't suggesting that you were forgetting the higher prices, just that you couldn't use these stats to extrapolate your potential earnings as an exclusive.

The way the targets are set it would be relatively easier for exclusives to reach than independents precisely for the reason that they're accumulating credits faster on the same download numbers.  


I get what you are saying Holgs, and that makes sense.  

Also, my comment about not forgetting the difference was addressed more to Aeonf and LeCyclope - I should have quoted them:

lisafx: a few more factors you forgot and where not mentioned here:

1. As an exc your files are much more expensive. more expensive photos = less demand = less downloads.



I think you forgot that as an excusive, your photos are going to be sold at higher price, and this can go from 20 to 100% more.  So this means more redeemed credits par sale and more $.


It's really hard to know which way the exclusivity factor will cut as far as credits go.  I suspect it would be a huge advantage.  That's why the comparison chart numbers only being slightly more than double for exclusivity surprised me.  

One thing I know for sure - there's no way I could manage the 1.4 million to get 45% as a BD exclusive if folks at Sean's level aren't getting it.  Those guys run rings around me both talent and saleswise.  

Sorry Lisa, maybe the word forget was not the good one!   :-\

What I meant was that I never red anywhere the fact that an exclusive receive more RC than an independant for each sale.  For me, it makes a huge difference, because on Jan 2011, my overall revenues as independant will low by +/- 5% or will raise 3 % if I choose to go exclusive.

I do not have a big portfolio and have only 2450 sales so far, but because of that (!) I still keep records of my sales by size.  So for those of you who might be interested, my numbers go like this:

XS   : 28.4%
S     : 24.6%
M    : 28.4%
L     : 18.3%
XL   : 0.34%

I think that these proportion of sales by size must be standard (maybe with the exception of XL and larger); I mean that they rely on what the buyers buy.

So based on these % and on the cost (in credits) of photos for independant VS exclusive, I estimate that my income will be 2.58 time what I do actually.

That's why I was asking if I was missing something, like a change in the price (in credit) of photo sold by indy vs exclusive...

Claude
« Last Edit: September 26, 2010, 21:15 by le_cyclope »

lisafx

« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2010, 16:28 »
0
Ah.  Thanks for the clarification Claude.  I didn't really understand your point before.  Unfortunately I (still!) lack the math skills to compare my situation to yours, and hubby isn't home ;)

I am sure the info you posted is very much in line with other exclusives.  And definitely exclusive images earn more credits per sale. 

Artemis, I am so relieved I am not the only one whose head spins when people pull out the charts and start doing the calculations.  We have to stick together :)

« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2010, 19:09 »
0
Artemis, I am so relieved I am not the only one whose head spins when people pull out the charts and start doing the calculations.  We have to stick together :)
not half as relieved as i am Lisa! ;) Many people here seem to juggle the numbers around with such ease i really felt like the dumbest kid in class. Feels good to have some reassurance it's not entirely my feeble brains and to have someone helping doing the maths!


 

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