Author Topic: For Indies who pulled ports from Istock... (Read 47491 times)

jamirae · « **Reply #150 on:** January 13, 2012, 18:06 »

Quote from: lisafx on January 13, 2012, 17:20

Great info on lypses Jami. For the ones where they provide all that assistance and swag it makes sense to insist on exclusivity. For the more recent ones where they didn't provide any assistance it seems a lot to ask.

true, but most attendees are exclusive anyway. back when I was attending these I didn't think twice about it because I always expected to be exclusive there. My how things have changed.

lisafx · « **Reply #151 on:** January 13, 2012, 18:13 »

Quote from: jamirae on January 13, 2012, 18:06

My how things have changed.

So true. I don't think (m)any of us could have anticipated how much.

jamirae · « **Reply #152 on:** January 13, 2012, 18:56 »

Quote from: lisafx on January 13, 2012, 18:13

Quote from: jamirae on January 13, 2012, 18:06
My how things have changed.

So true. I don't think (m)any of us could have anticipated how much.

you got that right!

gostwyck · « **Reply #153 on:** January 13, 2012, 19:27 »

Quote from: jamirae on January 13, 2012, 18:56

Quote from: lisafx on January 13, 2012, 18:13
Quote from: jamirae on January 13, 2012, 18:06
My how things have changed.

So true. I don't think (m)any of us could have anticipated how much.

you got that right!

I suspect you ain't seen nothing yet. A lot is going to change in the next couple of years, possibly quite a bit sooner. I don't mean just at Istock either. Think about what's happening and how the various agencies will react.

LesHoward · « **Reply #154 on:** January 13, 2012, 19:45 »

Quote from: jamirae on January 13, 2012, 14:07

oh.. and now I see the finally came out with the new minilypse program that they told me they were working on back in 2007: http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=339193&page=1

so apparently now they offer funding and even more assistance.

I read over all the information about the 'new' minilypse program a few days ago. Frankly, I didn't see how much different it is from the old program except perhaps to try to add some visibility to an almost dead program by starting a "sis - boom - bah" thread. Nobody had announced any new minilypses in months except for the two super-minilypses iStock themselves put on. There wasn't even a 2011 Toronto or a 2011 RedRock minilypse two events that had been held annually for years. I guess the cheerleading worked. Since the January 5 announcement three new lypses have been proposed (Switzerland, Sacramento & Minneapolis) and interest has been revived in two others (Orlando & South Africa).

In particular, I didn't see where they offered any financial assistance. Basically all they ever did was offer swag in return for exclusive photos. That doesn't appear to have changed.

Or did I miss something?

wut · « **Reply #155 on:** January 13, 2012, 20:04 »

Quote from: gostwyck on January 13, 2012, 19:27

I suspect you ain't seen nothing yet. A lot is going to change in the next couple of years, possibly quite a bit sooner. I don't mean just at Istock either. Think about what's happening and how the various agencies will react.

I'm quite interested in your scenario

luissantos84 · « **Reply #156 on:** January 13, 2012, 20:19 »

Quote from: gostwyck on January 13, 2012, 19:27

Think about what's happening and how the various agencies will react.

they will get more content, will be more powerful and even less dependent of contributors (how many files will be uploaded into them? that much? or the high quality? or new uploads everyday after?)

I really hope the "drop" of iStock will be good thing to all of us but don´t really think it would, not a big earner anywhere but I wonder how and where it will "drive" buyers, to subs at 28 cents (TS) or into SS (a lot higher, some months 2 times more than TS and the trend looks good)

are the IS buyers into subs? it was never the idea of iStock, are they ready to buy at TS/SS? (for sure I guess..)

like you said many times iStock still have a long run but what do you think it will happen in terms of prices and royalties?

lisafx · « **Reply #157 on:** January 14, 2012, 15:40 »

Quote from: wut on January 13, 2012, 20:04

Quote from: gostwyck on January 13, 2012, 19:27
I suspect you ain't seen nothing yet. A lot is going to change in the next couple of years, possibly quite a bit sooner. I don't mean just at Istock either. Think about what's happening and how the various agencies will react.

I'm quite interested in your scenario

Me too. Your crystal ball's better than most, Gostwyck. Would love to hear your predictions...

jamirae · « **Reply #158 on:** January 14, 2012, 17:02 »

Quote from: LesHoward on January 13, 2012, 19:45

Quote from: jamirae on January 13, 2012, 14:07
oh.. and now I see the finally came out with the new minilypse program that they told me they were working on back in 2007: http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=339193&page=1

so apparently now they offer funding and even more assistance.

I read over all the information about the 'new' minilypse program a few days ago. Frankly, I didn't see how much different it is from the old program except perhaps to try to add some visibility to an almost dead program by starting a "sis - boom - bah" thread. Nobody had announced any new minilypses in months except for the two super-minilypses iStock themselves put on. There wasn't even a 2011 Toronto or a 2011 RedRock minilypse two events that had been held annually for years. I guess the cheerleading worked. Since the January 5 announcement three new lypses have been proposed (Switzerland, Sacramento & Minneapolis) and interest has been revived in two others (Orlando & South Africa).

In particular, I didn't see where they offered any financial assistance. Basically all they ever did was offer swag in return for exclusive photos. That doesn't appear to have changed.

Or did I miss something?

actually the Sacramento one has been in early planning stages for a few months now - I only know this because I know the organizers and they contacted me offline regarding some of the details on running a 'lypse.

and they do offer financial support.. under the "What's in it for me" heading - I bolded the part about financial support:

Quote

What you (the Organizer of a Minilypse) get:
- Step-by-Step guidance including access to planning resources including a Organizer's Guidebook with all sorts of papers and checklists and stuff like that.
- Access to technical and logistical resources at HQ to help plan
- Lighting and technical suggestions, setup diagrams and resources
- Creative briefs and regionally relevant shooting concepts
- Financial support to help cover event costs (hiring models, equipment rentals, facilities costs). This is based on the size of your event and the current state of our sponsorship budget.
- Custom suggestions for improving your event; such as potentially including workshops, live inspections or lighting discussions
- Glory and bragging rights when it's all done with

and I might add that none of those other things were offered previously (except maybe the last one)

WarrenPrice · « **Reply #159 on:** January 15, 2012, 17:20 »

Quote from: WarrenPrice on January 11, 2012, 15:46

Quote from: xst on January 11, 2012, 15:09
Good idea.
I've gone the same root for FT when they changed their subs plan last time.
And I'm going to do the same for IS.

Lisa,

What are your thoughts about appropriate delay time?
I was thinking about 6-9 months.
Quote from: lisafx on January 10, 2012, 18:18
Meanwhile, I'm going to hold off uploading any new content until after it's been on SS and the rest for awhile, to give them an advantage over TS. Beyond that, it's wait-and-see.

This theory and several mentions of SS offering Exclusive Bennies got me to thinking (That Ain't Good ). Why not upload ONLY to SS for a period of time. See what effect that might have? Could it result in more OD and EL downloads?

Might give it a try?

Thinking of an adjustment to the upload procedure ... Will submit images that are rejected by SS. Strange but many of my SS rejects are accepted at iS. If they want to relegate me to 28 cents ... okay.

wut · « **Reply #160 on:** January 15, 2012, 17:44 »

Quote from: WarrenPrice on January 15, 2012, 17:20

Quote from: WarrenPrice on January 11, 2012, 15:46
Quote from: xst on January 11, 2012, 15:09
Good idea.
I've gone the same root for FT when they changed their subs plan last time.
And I'm going to do the same for IS.

Lisa,

What are your thoughts about appropriate delay time?
I was thinking about 6-9 months.
Quote from: lisafx on January 10, 2012, 18:18
Meanwhile, I'm going to hold off uploading any new content until after it's been on SS and the rest for awhile, to give them an advantage over TS. Beyond that, it's wait-and-see.

This theory and several mentions of SS offering Exclusive Bennies got me to thinking (That Ain't Good ). Why not upload ONLY to SS for a period of time. See what effect that might have? Could it result in more OD and EL downloads?

Might give it a try?

Thinking of an adjustment to the upload procedure ... Will submit images that are rejected by SS. Strange but many of my SS rejects are accepted at iS. If they want to relegate me to 28 cents ... okay.

I'm not even uploading what SS considers as garbage to IS. Not if something spectacular happens over there. For now I'm leaving my port, but if sales will start dropping, I'm outta there

cuethesun · « **Reply #161 on:** January 18, 2012, 10:24 »

Quote from: jamirae on January 13, 2012, 18:06

Quote from: lisafx on January 13, 2012, 17:20
Great info on lypses Jami. For the ones where they provide all that assistance and swag it makes sense to insist on exclusivity. For the more recent ones where they didn't provide any assistance it seems a lot to ask.

true, but most attendees are exclusive anyway. back when I was attending these I didn't think twice about it because I always expected to be exclusive there. My how things have changed.

I've done three shoot events in AU. Only the 2nd one in Melbourne in 2010 was a mini-lypse. We got a box of swag and a subsidy of US$30/photographer regardless of them being indie or exclusive, but the images were exclusive to istock. The money was paid to me after the event had concluded.

As the organiser I had to be exclusive as well.

At the end of it, the feedback from indies was very clear. Not worth it to only be able to upload to one site. From an organiser pespective I also didn't feel it was worthwhile.

I think the key changes in the new program are mainly around logistical support (identifying content gaps and making sure the details are covered), and it seems as though funding support is a sliding scale ie: the more backing you get, the more IS will contributr (i hope it goes in that direction).

I've been sounding them out a bit on a shoot event in Peru in a few years but it means I'd have to go back to being exclusive to qualify for sponsorship. If it's only US$30/attendee it's probably not worth it (US$ aren't worth what they used to be either).

Sean Locke Photography · « **Reply #162 on:** January 18, 2012, 10:45 »

Quote from: lisafx on January 13, 2012, 17:20

Great info on lypses Jami. For the ones where they provide all that assistance and swag it makes sense to insist on exclusivity. For the more recent ones where they didn't provide any assistance it seems a lot to ask.

http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=339193&page=1

Personally, I'm not sure why people are so into hosting these. You give away a bunch of your good ideas, you flood a niche with content, devaluing all the efforts by individuals already with that content, and for the most part, you don't even get to shoot yourself, because you're so busy putting out fires.

WarrenPrice · « **Reply #163 on:** January 18, 2012, 10:51 »

Quote from: sjlocke on January 18, 2012, 10:45

Quote from: lisafx on January 13, 2012, 17:20
Great info on lypses Jami. For the ones where they provide all that assistance and swag it makes sense to insist on exclusivity. For the more recent ones where they didn't provide any assistance it seems a lot to ask.

http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=339193&page=1

Personally, I'm not sure why people are so into hosting these. You give away a bunch of your good ideas, you flood a niche with content, devaluing all the efforts by individuals already with that content, and for the most part, you don't even get to shoot yourself, because you're so busy putting out fires.

I've been curious because of the locations ... not hosting; just attending ... but it seems to be nothing more than a very expensive social event.

Karimala · « **Reply #164 on:** January 18, 2012, 11:00 »

Quote from: cuethesun on January 18, 2012, 10:24

I've done three shoot events in AU. Only the 2nd one in Melbourne in 2010 was a mini-lypse. We got a box of swag and a subsidy of US$30/photographer regardless of them being indie or exclusive, but the images were exclusive to istock. The money was paid to me after the event had concluded.

As the organiser I had to be exclusive as well.

At the end of it, the feedback from indies was very clear. Not worth it to only be able to upload to one site. From an organiser pespective I also didn't feel it was worthwhile.

I think the key changes in the new program are mainly around logistical support (identifying content gaps and making sure the details are covered), and it seems as though funding support is a sliding scale ie: the more backing you get, the more IS will contributr (i hope it goes in that direction).

I've been sounding them out a bit on a shoot event in Peru in a few years but it means I'd have to go back to being exclusive to qualify for sponsorship. If it's only US$30/attendee it's probably not worth it (US$ aren't worth what they used to be either).

I've been to numerous photo shoot Meetups in Sacramento and met a lot of IS exclusives. Can't tell you how many times one of them has gotten the "brilliant" idea to organize a minilypse and how many times I've told them I won't be coming, because of the image exclusivity. It never seems to register...not until after they've done all the work and no one shows up. Looks like the latest Sacto'lypse won't suffer the same fate, but...$425 to attend?? OUCH!!!

cuethesun · « **Reply #165 on:** January 18, 2012, 11:14 »

Quote from: sjlocke on January 18, 2012, 10:45

http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=339193&page=1

Personally, I'm not sure why people are so into hosting these. You give away a bunch of your good ideas, you flood a niche with content, devaluing all the efforts by individuals already with that content, and for the most part, you don't even get to shoot yourself, because you're so busy putting out fires.

I get a personal buzz out of seeing the images others create as a result of my efforts. At every event I've done I see people come up with images I'd never have thought of. I tend to leave the ideas to contributors tho - get them good locations, models, hair and makeup, wardrobe, let them do the rest. Some people really shine with this approach, others struggle.

On the flip side you're right. At the most recent shoot I put together I got to shoot for a total of 2hrs in a 3.5 day event. The rest of my time was taken up with trying to run the event and dealing with numerous issues as they arose. Afterwards I got accused of profiteering (when I actually sank a heap of my own money into it). Really demotivating.

In future I'm doing them as invite only.

cuethesun · « **Reply #166 on:** January 18, 2012, 11:21 »

Quote from: Karimala on January 18, 2012, 11:00

I've been to numerous photo shoot Meetups in Sacramento and met a lot of IS exclusives. Can't tell you how many times one of them has gotten the "brilliant" idea to organize a minilypse and how many times I've told them I won't be coming, because of the image exclusivity. It never seems to register...not until after they've done all the work and no one shows up. Looks like the latest Sacto'lypse won't suffer the same fate, but...$425 to attend?? OUCH!!!

The ones I've done in AU have cost between $100 and $150 per day & that's with costs squeezed to the max. Keeping them to 1-2 days is important I think but if the images are exclusive to a single site, people cam't make that money back.

cuethesun · « **Reply #167 on:** January 18, 2012, 11:30 »

To circle back to the original post from Lisa, how have people gone on other sites with regards to model releases?

I have a lot of files on istock that aren't from lypses etc but I only have an istockphoto release for them. I hear Dreamstime are particular about only their releases being good enough, what about the others? Do they accept istock releases in lieu of their own?

Ben

Zephyr · « **Reply #168 on:** January 18, 2012, 11:42 »

Stockcube gave me this link in another thread (thanks btw!)

http://www.arcurs.com/what-is-a-model-release

cuethesun · « **Reply #169 on:** January 18, 2012, 12:03 »

Quote from: retrorocket on January 18, 2012, 11:42

Stockcube gave me this link in another thread (thanks btw!)

http://www.arcurs.com/what-is-a-model-release

Yeah I've seen Yuri's generic release. That's not what I'm asking about as it onoy deals with future shoots.

I want to know if istock releases get accepted by the other agencies for shoots that have happened in the past where there's no option for getting a new release (or set thereof) done for migrating a folio.

Jo Ann Snover · « **Reply #170 on:** January 18, 2012, 12:43 »

Quote from: cuethesun on January 18, 2012, 12:03

...I want to know if istock releases get accepted by the other agencies for shoots that have happened in the past where there's no option for getting a new release (or set thereof) done for migrating a folio.

Have a look at this thread. DT is one agency that won't accept the iStock release as is. With some of the newer agencies, I don't know their stance.

Most of my released pictures are family and so I just did new universal releases (a mixture of Getty's standard and Yuri's). The only other images are restricted to iStock anyway - from the 2009 HQ 'lypse - so the issue is moot.

Possibly you could get DT to accept IS releases for a small subset of existing content via contacting support - it's possible that they might be able to do something as a one-off, even if they wouldn't accept those as a rule. Can't hurt to ask.

disorderly · « **Reply #171 on:** January 18, 2012, 13:13 »

Doesn't help with old releases, but I've been able to get the iStock release accepted at Dreamstime and every other site to which I contribute with a small change to the language of the release. I used Adobe Illustrator to change

Quote

I agree that this release is irrevocable, worldwide and perpetual, and will be governed by the laws (excluding the law of conflicts) of the country/state from the following list that is nearest to the address of the Model (or Parent*) given opposite: New York, Alberta, England, Australia and New Zealand.

to

Quote

I agree that this release is irrevocable, worldwide and perpetual, and will be governed by the laws (excluding the law of conflicts) of the United States of America.

Someone, I can't recall who, identified this as the language that Dreamstime found objectionable.

I can make copies of my modified release available to anyone who wants one.

cuethesun · « **Reply #172 on:** January 18, 2012, 17:32 »

Thanks Joan and Hank - I'll give the modified release a crack.

I favourited both posts but can't seem to give you an influence rating yet because I'm too new?

Ben

jamirae · « **Reply #173 on:** January 18, 2012, 18:54 »

Quote from: WarrenPrice on January 18, 2012, 10:51

Quote from: sjlocke on January 18, 2012, 10:45
Quote from: lisafx on January 13, 2012, 17:20
Great info on lypses Jami. For the ones where they provide all that assistance and swag it makes sense to insist on exclusivity. For the more recent ones where they didn't provide any assistance it seems a lot to ask.

http://www.istockphoto.com/forum_messages.php?threadid=339193&page=1

Personally, I'm not sure why people are so into hosting these. You give away a bunch of your good ideas, you flood a niche with content, devaluing all the efforts by individuals already with that content, and for the most part, you don't even get to shoot yourself, because you're so busy putting out fires.

I've been curious because of the locations ... not hosting; just attending ... but it seems to be nothing more than a very expensive social event.

in some cases they can end up being just that, however, I would say that I got a lot of value out of attending and hosting. yes, we had same models, same locations, but the models get rotated at locations so, for instance the models I had at a barn shoot were different for my group then for the previous group that rotated in when I rotated to the next location out behind the barn at the chicken coop. And while sometimes you have a same concept, I see a lot of different ideas from different photographers in the same and different groups. And it's a teamwork approach where you help each other out and build on ideas. That's what I got out of it.

I must admit at some of the 'lypses I attended there was a bit of drama but you need to expect that when you have so many different personalities in one place. That's why if you decide to attend one, pick one that has a low number of attendee spots (like 12 or less). There are some rules also that are provided in advance. things like "No shooting over another photographer's shoulder" and "if you see someone else with an idea, don't steal it" Golden Rule stuff ("do unto others as you'd have done unto you") that we all should have learned in Kindergarten but often need to be reminded of now that we are 'grown up.'

For the most part a good organizer will cover these and the attendees will honor the 'rules.'

As for making your money back.. I can say that I DID earn back what I spent on some of the minilypses (about half of the ones I attended) from the images I took at the specific lypse. Mostly it was the RedRock 'lypses that AJ Rich (aka RichVintage) hosted. He is also the one who wrote the article that is referred to in the new minilypse guidelines. AJ knows how to run a 'lypse, knows how to get great locations and models and is an all around class act.

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Author Topic: For Indies who pulled ports from Istock... (Read 47491 times)

jamirae

lisafx

jamirae

gostwyck

LesHoward

wut

luissantos84

lisafx

jamirae

WarrenPrice

wut

cuethesun

Sean Locke Photography

WarrenPrice

Karimala

cuethesun

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cuethesun

Zephyr

cuethesun

Jo Ann Snover

disorderly

cuethesun

jamirae

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